Subject: Sahir FANdamentalism and a GHazal From: sm0e@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED) Date: 1995/05/11 Message-Id: <3oroqs$1fsk@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Lehigh University Keywords: FANdamentalism, GHazal Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc Guri writes: >>Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)... and a Sahir FANdamentalist!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >===>Sami seems to be coming up with these soundbytes at the same time >as some counter-points come to me... The pleasure is mine!! :-) Guri gaaru, u seem to have jumped to several erroneous conclusions here, unknowingly, I'm sure. The "soundbytes" you refer to were coined just to have some fun... FANdamentalist is in the same league as "Rmim"-Jhim Geeton Ki or loR.D. Burman or MadMohan. Yes, FANdamentalist is a shade different 'cause there exists a word (fundamentalist) in the English dictionary which, acc. to your conclusions, describes me well :-) Yes, I did look up the dictionary for the meaning of fundamentalist, but it still remains something about which I'm completely confused. Perhaps the current usage of the word, esp. by the western media, has added to my confusion. In fact, I tend to find the manner in which the media uses this word very amusing. And it was in this very context (for fun) that I termed myself a "Sahir FANdamentalist". Therefore, maybe it shud be me who shud take the blame for your erroneous conclusions. So, allow me to shoulder the responsibility and dispell all misgivings.... >This one is for those Sahir FANdamentalists who’ve categorically stated >that *even* the so-called chaaloo things that Sahir wrote for the >movies were great... Ustad Guri, what I meant was that even in his chaloo songs, you could observe Sahir's magical touch. This DOES NOT imply that ALL his songs were great. In order to make such a statement, it would be necessary for me to first be familiar with all his songs...and as RJGK 22 will prove, I'm not aware of many of his songs... so, there's no way I cud have said that ALL songs of Sahir are great... >let’s get a taste of something that seems to negate plenty of *beliefs* >about his poetry (belief that he did not write *muktachhand*, belief ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I hope you are not ascribing this to me. I don't even know how to pronounce "muktachand" leave alone say that Sahir did not write it :-) I said that I personally prefer poetry that rhymes. I think Abhay said the same, and I don't rem. either of us saying that Sahir did not write "muktachand". Anyone who has seen Sahir's movies such as Kabhi Kabhi will know that this is not true. I may not be doing very well in RJGK 22, but my performance is not THAT bad :-) >that *all* his stuff (chaaloo or profound) was great...here’s something This is another gross misunderstanding on your part. Nobody said that ALL his stuff is great. But yes, I DID say that, acc. to me, Sahir was the greatest lyricist in Bollywood and I'll say that again and again, because I strongly believe that it is true. Others feel that Gulzar was the greatest... that's fine with me.. but for me, Sahir was the greatest. (Brief diversion :-) This saying "again and again" thing reminds me of one my roomies' fav. dialogues which he never fails to dish out every alternate day: "Agar pyaar karna jurm hai to main ye jurm baar baar karunga..." And, always, my response is: "Aur agar shadi karna jurm ho to??" :-) end of brief diversion) >JUST LOOK AT IT !!! >Film: Daag (70s) >It’s a recitation by the male-lead...what a contrast to the stuff in >Pyasa!!...and it’s not because of who’s reciting it...that guy has >himself done marvelously with recitation in Aavishkar. :) Maybe he did a marvellous job in Aavishkar, but his pronunciation of certain Urdu words in this case is lousy.. >Aap! >aap kyaa jaane mujhko samajhte haiN kyaa >maiN to kuchh bhi nahiN (... rest deleted ...) OK, Guri Sahab, you have proved that this poem is lousy... now what ? Aapka "Reqd. to prove" section hi GHalat thha due to some misunderstanding on your part or inappropriate choice of words on my part... I can NEVER say that ALL songs of Sahir are great. Arre, sometimes one of the shers of a beautiful GHazal can be downright pathetic while the remaining ones are gems.. so how can one generalize at all ?? But, yes I do feel ke even in the chaloo songs (not ALL), Sahir comes up with some wonderful stuff which appeals to me... none of the songs of DaaGH is great by Sahir's stds... but then, there is a line in the song "Jab bhi jee chahe naee duniya baslete hain log..." which I like a lot: "Hum hi naadaaN thhe jo oRa beeti yaadon ka kafan Varna matlab ki lie sab kuchh bhula lete hain log" >Doesn’t make him any less of THE GREAT SAHIR in my eyes, makes him more >real, more reachable. I agree that it doesn't make him any less of the great Sahir... but, it doesn't make him more reachable to me either... Anyway, let's just forget this as one big misunderstanding... >(a FAN of *good* stuff regardless of *who* creates it.. >..Sahir...Gulzar...Sami...Abhay...Ashish... >even Rajan!! :)) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now, now... let's not stoop THAT low!! :-) (I'll have to save this one till Dr. Parrikar returns from India) Now, to diffuse the serious stuff, here's a GHazal which I composed on a moonless night when I just cudn't doze off... It was composed between roughly 3 to 4 AM... jab meri neend uRgaee thi and the Sony ka Dabba had finished playing BOTH sides of a 90 min cassette.... From Abhay's great post on the definition of a GHazal, it shud have a radif and a kaafiya... in my GHazal, the Radfif is "hai" and the kaafiya (rhyming pattern" is "Sahir" (and it's rhyming words..) WARNING: This was written on a sleepless night for fun. No offence is meant to anyone included in the shers... please take it in the right spirit... Matla arz hai: (On who my fav. lyricist is) Geetakaaron ka baadshah Sahir hai Ye haqeequat to saaf zaahir hai (zaahir = obvious) (Why is he my fav. lyricist) Chahe quawwali ho, geet ho, ya GHazal Har ek fun me woh maahir hai (fun = field, maahir = expert) Now some ashaar which describe some recent discussions on RMIM :-) English words have been included due to my poor knowledge of Urdu :-( (On Sats' reaction to my post on Majrooh ) Humne to jalaya thha kalaam-e-Majrooh Satish ke seene me kyun lagi fire hai (On Preetham staying away from all "wars" on RMIM) Jis "war' me doobe hain saare RMIMers Us khel ka Preetham hi umpire hai (On someone's claim that simple words like "bartan", used by Gulzar, are suitable for poetry) Kisine jab taarif ki "bartan" ki Gulzar ne KHud kaha: "Ye to liar hai" (On Guri's TOUGH RJGK) Guri ka RJGK dekhkar humne soncha Bhaiyya! Ye to apne pahunch ke baaher hai Maqta arz hai (Taqallus: "Naushad fan") Sunkar meri GHazal, zamaane ne ye kaha "Naushad fan" to do kauRi ka shaaer hai (do kauRi ka = worthless) Now my fav. sher, and hence listed separtely :-) First, a little background: It desribes Kumar Sanu's (sorry KS fans :-) ) inability to sing at high notes. Have u ever noticed what happens to an aeroplane's wheels after it is airborne and reaches a certain altitude ?? Jo ooncha uTHne par bandh ho jaata hai Kumar Sanu aeroplane ka aisa tyre hai Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)...with malice towards none. Subject: Re: Sahir FANdamentalism and a GHazal, etc.. From: subraman@cs.umn.edu (Satish Subramanian) Date: 1995/05/12 Message-Id: <199505130402.XAA10257@deci.cs.umn.edu> Sender: nobody@cs.utexas.edu Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED (sm0e@Lehigh.EDU) wrote: > WARNING: This was written on a sleepless night for fun. No offence > is meant to anyone included in the shers... please take it in the > right spirit... - Ditto - (excuse this friday night rambling too!) > (On Sats' reaction to my post on Majrooh ) > Humne to jalaya thha kalaam-e-Majrooh > Satish ke seene me kyun lagi fire hai pehle ghaayal kiya hame.n, aur majboor bhi, phir poochte hai 'majrooh', ye aatish-e-jigar kyon hai. [ghaayal=hurt, majboor=compelled, majrooh=wounded aatish = fire, jigar = heart] > Sunkar meri GHazal, zamaane ne ye kaha > "Naushad fan" to do kauRi ka shaaer hai (do kauRi ka = worthless) bina current ke chalaye jo fan-e-saahir ko, 'Sami' RMIM ka wohi live-wire hai. (fan-e-saahir = magician's table/ceiling fan :) do kauDi ka toh ham bhi hai Sami par aapka level toh thoDa higher hai! :) -- Something about ASAD series now.. Abhay's .sig in the ASAD series says: # # - Abhay. # ASAD _also_ stands for "A Sher A Day" ! # I always wondered why Abhay makes such a redundant statement day in and day out, when it is obvious that "ASAD" is the short form for A Sher A Day. Until I found out why! The .sig statement had an "also" in it and that too emphasized, which made me think. So I thought ASAD must mean something. So I turned to the automailer for help with the query "urdu:: asad" to give me some meanings for asad. It gave: #asad: A n.m. lion Ah! So asad does mean something. But so what? Why emphasize this is the .sig? So I sent another mail to the automailer, this time looking for words that have meaning "lion" (urdu:: lion). It returned this!! #asad: A n.m. lion #sher: P n.m. lion/tiger/brave man So asad means lion; lion is also sher; sher also means a couplet; this series is about shers; and the title of the series is named ASAD!! Wow! If I had so much fun discovering (Yup,this is another Eureka posting! :) the meaning of this Urdu-English pun, I wonder what it does to all the people who discover the meanings of all those complicated shers! And aren't you glad that they all take the time to share those with us on RMIM? I am. I saw parts of the movie "In Custody", and in one scene Shashi Kapoor playing the role of Faiz says "Jab Urdu zabaan hi nahi rahi toh Urdu shayari kahan ki? Mar gayi, khatm ho gayi!". Wish he had seen RMIM. -- bye satish Subject: Re: Sahir FANdamentalism and a GHazal From: buxi@ix.netcom.com (Guri) Date: 1995/05/11 Message-Id: <3os7ta$ch9@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> Distribution: world References: <3oroqs$1fsk@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> Organization: Netcom Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc Sami-babu ka kehnaa hai: >Guri gaaru, u seem to have jumped to several erroneous conclusions ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >here, unknowingly, I'm sure. The "soundbytes" you refer ^^^^^^^^^^ >to were coined just to have some fun... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ===>Aap ki naaraazgHi kisi bhi mol-bhaav par nahiN chaahiye...sounbytes was the wrong word for me to use there...if the conclusions were erroneous, I stand corrected...I come here to have some fun, too, and you guys have been quite generous to me in that context...I have nothing but good feelings about that. :) >>(a FAN of *good* stuff regardless of *who* creates it.. >>..Sahir...Gulzar...Sami...Abhay...Ashish... >>even Rajan!! :)) >^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Now, now... let's not stoop THAT low!! :-) (I'll have to save this one >till Dr. Parrikar returns from India) ===>The only reason I would stoop a plenty in this world would be to offer my *aadaab* to all the good-hearted souls around here who bring such sukoon-o-raahat to my mind...I mentioned just some of such people above...Rajan has been my guru and dost from the time I was fortunate enough to share his company here in Colorado, and before he became Dr. Parrikar ...I was only taking that familiarity as a license for the friendly banter above.:) >(On Guri's TOUGH RJGK) > >Guri ka RJGK dekhkar humne soncha >Bhaiyya! Ye to apne pahunch ke baaher hai ===> Sune-sunaaye gaane pahuNch se baahar kiye Sami ka Sahir bhi kaisaa Saahir hai! [Saahir=magician] >Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)...with malice towards none. ===>none taken :)) guri