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Many are giving their personal opinion as to whether or
not ancient Israel and Judah as well as modern-day Seventh-day Adventism are
to be considered any part of Babylon. It is not ANY PERSON'S PERSONAL OPINION
that counts. We must consult the Word of God on this all important issue.
Since Rome, THE HARLOT, is the seat of Babylon, it is
more proper to refer to her daughters as harlots of Mother Babylon’s
brothel.
Newell Hammond, who professes to be a Seventh-day Adventist
pastor, made the following statement on an internet chat group:
"But, no where is Israel of old
called Babylon."
That is not true. Every time the Bible refers to Judah and
Israel as playing the harlot, it is calling Israel part of Babylon.
When Christ said that the Jews were of the Synagogue of Satan, by saying that
they were of their father the devil, how many synagogues does Satan
have? Only one as far as I know.
Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become
an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but
now murderers.
Any sane person with any
spiritual discernment will conclude that in Isaiah 1:21, God was calling
ancient Israel a harlot. He put
it in question form. How is the
faithful city (Israel and Judah) become an harlot? We have no problem with such a
conclusion.
However, Adventists seem
to become blindsided when Ellen White says the very same words in reference
to the professing Seventh-day Adventist church in 1903. She said:
"In the balances of the
sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist chrch is to be
weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has
had. . . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called rightousness. Stripping them of, He laid bare he
defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how they have
pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character? How is
the faithful city become an harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8,
pp. 247-250.
A harlot is a harlot is a harlot! And any harlot is part of
Babylon. Rome is the Mother and
any harlot daughter is part of Babylon. Ellen White quoted her
Instructor who quoted Isaiah 1:21 in Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 250.
Even William Fagal of the White Estate admitted that to call the
church a harlot, would be tantamount to calling it part of Babylon. I told ____________ to write to the
White Estate and ask Fagal. ____ did just that, and foolishly,
true to the “dumb dog” stance of Isaiah 56:10-12, and
Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211, William Fagal denied
that Ellen White’s Instructor and Ellen White were calling the church
any part of Babylon, and he admitted that to call the church a harlot would
be calling it Babylon. Here is
______’s e-mail to William Fagal and Fagal’s response: (I have omitted the respondees name).
-------- Original Message --------
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Subject:
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Is God calling the
Adventist church a harlot in 8T 250
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Date:
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Thu, 25 Aug 2005
14:20:30 -0400
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From:
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EGWMAIL <mail@whiteestate.org>
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To:
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________
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Dear ____________,
Thank you for contacting the Ellen G. White
Estate. I don't see that in
8T 250 God is calling the Seventh-day Adventist
church a harlot. That would be the
equivalent of calling it Babylon, wouldn't it? And Mrs.
White explicitly rejected this designation in reference to theSeventh-day Adventist church. She wrote,
God has a church, a
chosen people; and could all see as I have seen how closely
Christ identifies Himself with His people, no such message would
be heard as the one that denounces the church as Babylon.[Testimonies to Ministers, p. 20]
It will be found that
those who bear false messages will not have a high sense of
honor and integrity. They will deceive the people, and mix up
with their error the Testimonies of Sister White, and use her name to
give influence to their work. They make such selections from the
Testimonies as they think they can twist to support their positions, and
place them in a setting of falsehood, so that their error may have
weight and be accepted by the people. They misinterpret and misapply
that which God has given to the church to warn, counsel, reprove,comfort,
and encourage those who shall make up the remnant people of God.
Those who receive the Testimonies as the message of God will be
helped and blessed thereby; but those who take them in parts, simply to
support some theory or idea of their own, to vindicate themselves in acourse of error, will not be blessed and
benefited by what they teach.
To claim that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does
Satan, who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them
before God night and day. By this misusing of the Testimonies,
souls are placed in perplexity, because they cannot understand
the relation of the
43
Testimonies to such a position as is taken by those
in error; for God
intended that the Testimonies should always have a
setting in theframework of truth. {TM 42.1}
Those who advocate
error will say, "The Lord saith," "when the Lord
hath not spoken." They testify to falsehood, and not to truth. If those
who have been proclaiming the message that the church is Babylon hadused the
money expended in publishing and circulating this error, inbuilding
up, instead of tearing down, they would have made it evident
that they were the people whom God is leading. {TM 43.1}
There is but one church in
the world who are at the present
time standing in the breach, and making up the hedge,
building up the old waste places; and for any man to call the
attention of the world and other churches to this church,
denouncing her as Babylon, is to do a work in harmony with him
who is the accuser of the brethren. [TM 50.2]
"My brother, if
you are teaching that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, you are wrong, God has not given you any such
message to bear." [TM 59.2]
In the passage you asked about,
I think Mrs. White is giving the church stern warnings, as Scripture itself
does, and she is pointing out where the wrong path leads. But she is not making the application
you suggested. If you read the
whole chapter, including the paragraph that follows the one in question, I
think this becomes clearer.
Something else that
will help is if you review the underlying concern of Volume 8. There is a good article about this on
pp. 5-8 at the beginning of the volume.
It is called "The Times of Volume Eight." This will help to
make clearer to you the nature of the primary evils Mrs. White was addressing
in the book. While she surely
could branch out beyond those in the volume's pages, I believe that these
concerns lay in the background of the counsel that she gave there.
I hope this helps. Thank you for writing, and God bless!
William Fagal
Associate Director
Ellen G. White Estate
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver
Spring, MD 20904-6600 U.S.A.
Phone: 301 680-6550
FAX:
301 680-6559
http://www.WhiteEstate.org
Ron Beaulieu’s Commentary on Fagal’s Response to _____________
William Fagal violates clear English grammer
and Biblical meaning when commenting on Ellen White’s quote of what her
Instructor said to her. Her
Instructor asked how the professing SDA church had become a harlot. God asked the same question in
Scripture regarding ancient Israel and Judah. Was He just asking a question
or did He actually mean that Israel had played the harlot?
In the
tradition of all other SDA leaders since the death of Ellen G. White, Fagal refuses to consider time and place as regards Ellen
White’s statements that the church was not Babylon. They take her statements that applied
to a time (1893) when the church was not Babylon, and misapply them to the
time when Ellen White and her Instructor said that the church had become a
harlot of Babylon.
Church leaders have used Ellen
White’s statements on Babylon out of context since the time of her
death in order to justify anything the church does and to make it appear that
the church will never become any part of Babylon NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES! Adventists fail to discern that if the
Jews, God’s first chosen people could fall, so can SDAs! And they have fallen!
The all
looming question is whether or not there has been a revival in the SDA church
since it was called a harlot in 1903.
Read the following link and see if you can see any sign of a revival.
https://members.tripod.com/omega77/warningrejected.htm
There
are at least four solid evidences that the professing SDA church militant
will never repent as a corporate body:
· Ellen
White says that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled again. The last fulfillment of that chapter
was the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The destruction began at the apostate
Jewish Temple, and ended with the destruction of the city proper. So it will be again. The destruction of Jerusalem does
symbolize the destruction of the world at the end-time, but where does it all
begin? At SDA churches around the
world. Will SDA churches advocate
Sunday keeping when the National Sunday Law is passed? Ellen White said they will. Ezekiel 9 says they will.
· Ellen
White said that the omega apostasy would develop and wax stronger until Jesus
comes. That means the church will
never corporately repent and revive.
Individuals in that church will, just as individuals in all the fallen
churches will become primitively revived.
· Ezekiel
chapters 5 and 9 refer to once spiritual Jerusalem. Ezekiel 8 describes her apostasy. Ellen White said that Ezekiel 9 will
be literally fulfilled again.
Ezekiel 5:9 establishes end-time context because that is when Christ
does His strange act—the worst thing He ever does.
· Ellen
White said “…nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the
New Movement.” Selected
Messages, Bk. 1, 205. She was referring to the Omega of Apostasy New
Movement.
Ironically,
Fagal admits that if Ellen White’s Instructor
said that the church had become a harlot, He would have meant that the church
was Babylon or a part of Babylon.
Fagal clearly said:
“I don't see that in 8T 250 God is calling the Seventh-day Adventist church a
harlot. That would be the equivalent of calling it Babylon, wouldn't it?”
Yes it would William Fagal!
And that is the express, clear meaning of what Ellen White’s Instructor
said! There are but two
masters: Christ and Satan. Christ’s kingdom is symbolized
by the city New Jerusalem, and Satan’s kingdom is symbolized by the
city Babylon. There is no third
interim kingdom for apostate Adventism.
It is either representative of New Jerusalem or Babylon!
We have
no problem knowing that God used the very same wording Ellen White’s
Instructor used, to call ancient Israel and Judah a harlot of the Synagogue
of Satan, but somehow when it comes to the professing SDA church, all
spiritual discernment of even the church’s leaders, suddenly
disappears, and clear meaning is misconstrued and misinterpreted to fool the
sheepfold.
This is a classic fulfillment of Isaiah 56:10-12,
which Ellen White reapplies in Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211:
"His
WATCHMEN are blind: they are all
ignorant, the are all dumb
dogs, they cannot bark sleeping, lying down loving to slumber. Yea, they are
greedy dogs which can never have enough, and THEY ARE SHEPHERDS that cannot
understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his
quarter. Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves
with strong drink and to morrow shall be as this
day, and much more abundant." Isaiah 56:10-12.
"Here we see that the church--the
Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The
ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as
guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust.
They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked
manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These
words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good,
neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment.
Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a
trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob
their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the
ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little
children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.
How
many are dumb dogs? God says ALL.
Willima Fagal
contradicts God by saying that not all SDA pastors fall into that class. Just as William Fagal
denied clear Scriptural meaning of Ellen White’s harlot statement, he
also denied clear Scriptural testimony regarding Isaiah 56:10-12, and the
dumb-dog part as applying to ALL the so-called watchmen.
Here
is William Fagal’s response to a person named
(name withheld), regarding Ellen White’s “dumb-dog”
statement:
Pastor William Fagal's Answers On the "Dumb-Dogs" Issue
Dear
Reader,
What
follows is a dialog between myself and (name withheld) on an Internet SDA
group forum. Name withheld wrote to William Fagal,
Associate Director of the White Estate to get his opinion of things I told
her. I have included the entire dialog between (name withheld) and myself, as
well as William Fagal's responses.
From:
Name withheld
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:51 PM
To: EGWMAIL
Subject: Re: Hello
Dear Brother Fagel, \
Thank you so much for writing. Absolutely, I agree with you
that the statement is a question with a warning. My question is do people in
the church realize of this warning? The church will stand forever but not
everyone in the church. Speaking of warning I will include this as a plea for
you opinion.
[Here (name withheld) quotes what Ron sent to her]
Ron said: "The church militant designates the church
which is to house wheat and tares, but not open
sinning THORNS. Even home churches will have tares, which Ellen White defines
as insincere believers whose motives one would have to judge to remove them.
Thorns, however, are open sinners, whose motives one does not have to judge
to remove them. They were to be reformed or removed. But that does not happen
any more. Why? Because Ellen White said that the
unfaithful "dumb-dog" shepherds would NEVER AGAIN, show the House
of Jacob their sins. 5T 211.
Would you like to know when that statement was written? Sure
you would, so just turn to the front pages of Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, and
you will see the time-frame in which the various page segments were
published. The statement was published in the first time-frame, so it was
published in 1882.
Now watch this: If Ellen White said in 1882, that the dumb-dog
watchmen would NEVER AGAIN bark to show the house of Jacob their sins, and in
1903, God called for a reformation when He called the church, the ONCE
faithful city, Jerusalem, a harlot, HOW COULD A REFORMATION OCCUR WITHOUT THE
SHEPHERDS SHOWING THE PEOPLE THEIR SINS THAT HAD CAUSED THEIR HARLOTRY? And
she said IN 1882, THAT THEY WOULD NEVER AGAIN SHOW THEM THEIR SINS. See the
problem. That is why there has been no reformation and never again will be.
Ellen White called for a reformation in 1893, because the
church had not yet married into Satan’s brothel, it had merely played
the harlot. In the 1960’s, the church married
into Satan’s brothel by joining its associations, counsels/councils, girdings and confederacies, Isaiah 8:9-12.
Ellen White called for a reformation before the church married
into Satan’s brothel, but God knew in 1882, that the leaders of the SDA
church would NEVER AGAIN show the House of Jacob its sins. God knew that
ancient Israel would not respond to His pleas for reformation. He knew that
when He sent them to Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar’s captivities of the
Jews, that they would not reform.
So why did God and Ellen White call for a reformation when God
knew it would not be forthcoming? Because his stubborn people would not have
believed Him if He did not let it all play out in reality! That is why! But
God always has a faithful few who separated from the church militants of all
ages who played the harlot, and/or conspired with God’s enemies.
"Those who think that the church militant is the church
triumphant make a great mistake." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 152.
"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither
is it the national establishment, various denominations it is the people who
love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together
in my name, there am I in the midst of them' (Matt. 18:20). Where Christ is
even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the
High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church.
Where two or three are present who love and obey the
commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of
the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls."
E.G. White, The Upward Look, 315. [End of (name withheld) quoting of Ron's
e-mail to her].
The
Issue of the writer to Fagal Changes Here to the
Issue of Time
(Pseudo name inserted here) Kathryn here. Since the harlot
statement was a warning and she also said there never be shown their sins, we
are at a loss as to what to do. It's a impasse. She did not call the church a
harlot and many people discount what she said as a question.
We are at a time when everyone needs to wake up and so many
don't want to talk about Revelation. On and on time goes and people live like
they are not dying. They live like they do not see what is happening in the
world. Since E. White made the statement: I give you from a friend-
"I saw that they were correct in their reckoning of the
prophetic periods; (PLURAL) prophetic time closed in 1844," EW 243
"I have borne the
testimony since the passing of the time in 1844, that there should be no
definite time set by which to test God's people. The great test on time was
in 1843 and 1844; and all who have set time since these great periods marked
in prophecy were deceiving and being deceived. {LS80
221.1}
TM 55
Let all our brethren and sisters beware of any one
who would set a time or the Lord to fulfill his word in regard to his coming,
or in regard to any other promise he has made of special significance.
"It is not for you to know.
Another quote 6MR 251
"One week ago, last Sabbath, we had a very interesting
meeting. Brother Hewit from Dead River was there.
He came with a message to the effect that the destruction of the wicked and
the sleep of the dead was an abomination within a shut door that Jezebel, a
prophetess had brought in and he believed that I was that woman Jezebel. We
told him of some of his errors in the past that the 1335 days were ended and
numerous errors of his had but little effect."
There are no more time prophecies left. Jesus is at the door.
Respectfully again,
(Name withheld)
Ron
Beaulieu's Reply to (name withheld)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Beaulieu <rsbeauli@telusplanet.net
>
To: (name withheld)
Sent: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:20:34 -0600
Subject: Re: Hello
Name withheld,
Regarding time prophesies, Ellen White must have
meant day for a year time prophesies and not literal time, because there is a
forty and two month time period in Revelation 13:3-5, after the deadly wound
of the beast is fully healed, and that has not yet occurred. There was a day
for a year fulfillment of the 1335 days of Daniel 12:11, 12, but the final
fulfillment is after Michael stands up and He has not stood up yet.
Ron
William Fagal's Reply to
(Name withheld)
-----Original Message-----
From: EGWMAIL <mail@whiteestate.org>
To: (name withheld)
Sent: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:37:02 -0400
Subject: Dumb dogs; reformation possible?
Dear Sister (name withheld),
Thank you for writing back. I'm sorry I've been so
slow in responding, but I will try to do so now.
Is it correct to generalize Mrs. White's statement
in 5T 211 to the entire church from that time on?
Because some at that time were "dumb dogs" who did not bark at
danger, who cried "Peace and safety" and who would "never
again" sound the warning against sin, does this mean that no one would
do so ever again? I do not find that conclusion in Mrs. White's statement.
You have noted, correctly, that we still have such
a problem in the church today. We have such ministers today, I know. But I
also know others whom that description does not fit. I cannot join you in
concluding that "there has been no reformation and never again will
be." Or perhaps this was not your statement, but something quoted from
someone else? I cannot tell from what you wrote, but as I look at it yet
again, I'm thinking now that you were quoting someone else and asking my
opinion. In any event, I think the conclusion is unwarranted.
You went on to express concern about the lukewarm
state of so many in the church. I share that concern, even as I examine my
own soul to see whether I am not in the same condition. The state of the
church should not surprise us in light of the Laodicean message of Revelation
3. This does not excuse our condition; the text gives a stern warning about
it. But it extends hope for the possibility of change and assurance of Jesus'
desire for it.
Events in New Orleans and the surrounding area over
the last week are a reminder of how fragile our "security" is in
this world, and how quickly the dark side of humanity may emerge when
conditions permit. I have been reflecting on these things in the light of
Mrs. White's statement about end times in The Great Controversy, pp.
589, 590. We will see more such things. They are signs of the times.
Though many things around us--inside and outside
the church--may appear discouraging, we need have no fear for the final
outcome. God will have a people who will go through to the end. His side of
the Great Controversy will be the winning one! We must determine, by His
grace, to be on His side and to help as many others as possible to be there,
too.
Thank you for your interest and concern. God bless!
William Fagal
Associate Director
Ellen G. White Estate
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600 U.S.A.
Phone: 301 680-6550
FAX: 301 680-6559
http://www.WhiteEstate.org
Ron Beaulieu responds to (name
withheld) Commenting on Fagal's Answers to (name
withheld):
Name withheld,
In Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, Ellen White is referring
to Isaiah 56:10-12, regarding the "dumb-dogs." She said in another
place that the ancient prophets wrote more for us than for the Jews. That
would figure, since we have the Jewish mistakes as an example for avoiding
the same errors. Isaiah 56:10-12 indicts ALL the watchmen as DUMB-DOGS, and
ALL as being IGNORANT. I will believe God, rather than men like William Fagal, who would have to admit to being self-indicted by
Scripture if he admitted it applied to all watchmen NOW. There is not ONE
persons barking all the abominations in the church TODAY. If he/she were,
they would be speedily removed.
But let's consult God on the issue. Let's see if he
finds ONE PERSON in the church AT THE END TIME, telling all the abominations
and warning of them. Recall that Ezekiel 5:9 updates Ezekiel's warnings to
the end time, for that is when the worst thing that God ever does occurs
(Matthew 24:21). So Let's ask Ezekiel if there is one person in the church
protesting all the abominations at the end-time, WHO TAKES A PROPER RESPONSE
TO THE ABOMINATIONS, which is part and parcel to the protest. What is a
proper response to the Abominations? I would fear to give my personal
opinion, so will give you God's directive:
Fear and Shun "'They that forsake the law
praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world,
yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the
opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as
did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the
speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then.
Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God' people in His
guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets
and kings, p. 660.
What does God say through Ezekiel?
Eze 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that
should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land,
that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
Keep in mind
that Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, is speaking of Ezekiel 9. Ellen White
begins the chapter on p. 207, quoting Ezekiel 9:1. So that is the
context, and Ezekiel 22:30 (above) says that there is NOT ONE among the
church MAKING UP THE HEDGE AND STANDING IN THE GAP. I believe God, and I can
see for myself that He is right!
We should also
keep in mind Ellen White's statement that the ancient prophets wrote more for
us than the Jews. This means that Isaiah 56:10-12, applies more to us than
the Jews:
"The
Bible for Our Time.--Never are we absent from the mind of God. God is our joy
and our salvation. Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time
than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. 'Now all these
things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our
admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come' (! Cor. 10:11). 'Not
unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now
reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the
Holy Ghost sent down from heaven which things the angels desire to look into'
(1 Peter 1:12).'" E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 3, p. 338.
So, in
reality, William Fagal contradicts both Scripture
and Ellen White, when he says that not all of the watchmen are being
unfaithful in "barking" out the sins of the House of Jacob. The New
Movement--Organization would not allow such "barking" to stand in it's way. 1 SM, 204-5. Also, any leader or anyone else
who protested all the abominations and a correct course by way of response to
them, would be removed from the church. That has been proven hundreds of
times over. How so? Because a correct response is that the wheat cannot
mature amongst the corruption of thorns (open sinners), and the wheat cannot
unite with the corrupt and remain pure.
"Thorns
sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke
8:4). In the same way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit
(Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the
subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of
cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground
hearers lack is a moral transformation (Christ's Object Lessons, p. 50). To
them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to
realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as
sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced
by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." SDA Bible Commentary, Vol.
5, 405.
"It is
IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain
pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host
would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become
corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.
"The
thorns of sin will grow in any soil they need no cultivation but grace must
be carefully cultivated. The briers and thorns are always ready to spring up,
and the work of purification must advance continually....
The thorns
that have been cut off but not uprooted grow space, until the soul [and/or
the church] is overspread with them." E. G. White, Christ's Object
Lessons, 50.
Quiescent,
insincere believer tares, are not to be uprooted until the close of
probationary time, Christ's Object Lessons, 72. Open sinning tares and thorns
are to be uprooted, or the church will be overspread with them and they will
choke out and kill the wheat, making it impossible for the wheat to mature.
This is why the wheat must be separated from a church that is controlled by
open sinning, apostate tares and thorns.
Ron
----- Original
Message -----
From: name withheld
To: rsbeauli@telusplanet.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: Did EGW call the church a harlot in
1903...etc.?
Ron, Brother Fagal said re the harlot statement that the forward, pages
5-8 in 8 Testimonies is the time period that she was taking about in regards
to the harlot statement. Don't you still have that letter? He told me to read
pages 5-8 and then I would have a better understanding of why she wrote that
harlot statement. But it isn't that she wrote it, but in fact that she had a
vision from God. Also to the point the last paragraph, sentence, it states
that her writings in 8 would be, helpful-(I think it says) for the end times.
Name withheld
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Beaulieu <rsbeauli@telusplanet.net>
To: name withheld
Sent: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 11:54:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Did EGW call the church a harlot in
1903...etc.?
Name withheld,
The great crisis mentioned on pages 5-8, of
Testimonies, Vol. 8, involved J. Harvey Kellogg and pantheism of the Alpha of
Apostasy. I understand that. I agree that Ellen White checked that crisis. The
leaders who are responding to your questions are ignoring the Omega of
Apostasy that Ellen White said would surely develop and wax stronger until
Jesus comes. The Omega was to be far more serious. It is summarized in
Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-5.
The leaders are also saying in effect, that the new
organization--the New Movement, was one of going from worse to better, and
that is not the case. For example, under the new organization--new movement,
of 1901, Ellen White, Jones and Waggoner, of the minority committee, voted
that there should be no president of the General Conference, but rather a
committee of 25 men. By 1903, that was not followed, and A.D. Daniels was
elected PRESIDENT. The leaders ignored what was voted on in 1901. That
presidency of Daniels led to what Ellen White referred to as KINGLY
"RULE OR RUIN" POWER on his part. That "rule or ruin"
power exists NOW in the Omega of Apostasy, for: "Nothing would be
allowed to stand in the way of the new movement." Selected Messages,
Bk. 1, 205.
Ellen White said in 8T p.
11:
"There is before the church the dawn of a
bright, glorious day, IF she will put on the robe of Christ's righteousness,
WITHDRAWING FROM ALL ALLEGIANCE TO THE WORLD."
That "IF" condition has not been complied
with. The church has become married to the world by accepting its
Accreditation Standards for education. The church accepted those standards in
1930. Also, the church has so wandered after the manner of the world that
it has nearly the same divorce percentage ratio as the world, and that
is according to two recent Adventist Review articles.
http://adventistreview.org/2003-1543/story4.html
Due to
pre-marital classes and strict regard for marriage being a sacrament,
Catholics have America's lowest divorce rate:
http://www.adventistreview.org/2000-1547/story1-1.html
So Mother
Babylon has a lower divorce percentage rate among its members than its
daughters. Do we now know why Ellen White said that SDA's are worse than
Babylon?
"God's
professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are
worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshipers who
have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, vol. 2, 441-442.
The following
quote is taken from Adventist Review:
http://www.adventistreview.org/2000-1547/story1.html
"Despite
the energy that most churches put into premarital training, the divorce rate
for Christians, including Seventh-day Adventists (see sidebar "Religious
Organizations and Issues Regarding Marriage"), is comparable to that in
society. It may be safe to assume that much of this energy hasn't always been
spent in the most effective manner."
The following
quotes are taken from the Adventist Review in 2005, at the following link:
http://www.adventistreview.org/2005-1514/story5.html
"Divorce
is more prevalent among Christians than the rest of the population, leaving
broken hearts, shattered dreams and innocent children in its wake."
"Recent
studies by the Barna Research Group reveal that 27
percent of born-again Christians have been divorced. That compares with 24
percent of adults who are not born-again."
Relate the
above statements regarding current trends of divorce in the SDA church, to
the following statement by Ellen White:
"We must
as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful
intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large
degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing
our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage
for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided
movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No.
449, pp. 17, 18. (Letter 51, 1886 to Elder Butler) Testimonies on Sexual
Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce, p. 193.
Were decided
movements made to cure the existing evil? Not according to current divorce
statistics. Even Mother Rome has a less divorce percentage ratio that
Seventh-day Adventists, and that is an abomination to sigh and cry over. So
has the church become a sister to fallen Babylon? The answer should be clear.
Another way in
which the church has become in allegiance to the world is via ecumenical
involvement with fallen churches that cannot be distinguished from the
world--The World Council of Churches, National Councils of Churches and their
local subsidiaries, Ministerial Associations of Babylon. SDA leaders use the
excuse that we must come close to the ministers of other faiths. That is
their reason for liaison with these bodies. But not one single person has
ever been converted to Adventism by such liaison. That is according to B.B. Beach, who was the SDA leader in such spiritual
crime, strictly forbidden by God's Word in Isaiah 8:9-12. However, Earl Hilgert, the first SDA representative to Babylon's
Associations, was converted to their side and became a Babylonian preacher.
The leaders
lie about the church's ecumenical involvement, but Vance Ferrell has proof.
That is why I said that you should write to him and procure that proof.
Ron's further
response to name withheld
Is Reformation
Possible?
SDA leaders
and the laity believe that a great reformation will occur that will purge the
bad from the SDA church militant leaving it purged and purified as the church
triumphant. That is not so. The church militant will be destroyed in another
literal manifestation of Ezekiel 9, as Ellen White and Ezekiel, chapters 5
and 9 attest.
A reformation
will go through all fallen churches among the sincere in those churches--but
not the denominational church structures involved. A remnant will proceed out
of all fallen churches at the Loud Cry of the Third Angel.
Isa 37:31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of
Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
Isa 37:32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant,
and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall
do this.
Remember,
Isaiah wrote more for us than the Jews of old. Even though the above verses
had a historic fulfillment involving the Jews, the Lord has shown me
emphatically that they will have another end-time fulfillment.
Ezekiel 5
1 And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a
barber's razor, and cause it to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then
take thee balances to weigh, and divide the hair. 2 Thou shalt
burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the
siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it
with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will
draw out a sword after them. 3 Thou shalt also take thereof a few
in number, and bind them in thy skirts. 4
The "few
in number" bound in His skirts (under His wings), are the remnant within
the remnant of God's chosen people. After they escape, as they did in the
PREFIGURE of A.D. 70, GC, chapter 1, the remaining church structure will be
destroyed. The "thousands a day" who join the SDA church, join the
SDA church triumphant, out in the wilderness outposts, from whence the Loud
Cry will be made, as Ellen White and Scripture attests.
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out
of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a
stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. 35 And I will
bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you
face to face. 36 Like as I pleaded with
your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with
you, saith the Lord GOD. 37 And I will cause you to
pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: 38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that
transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where
they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall
know that I am the LORD. 39 As for you, O house of
Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one
his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye
my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols. Ezekiel 20:34-39.
It is from the
SDA Church Triumphant that the tares are shaken, not the church militant
structure.
COUNTERPART:
"The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this
people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither
make intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes
the sins that had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets
prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love
to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of
them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given
to covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth
falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people
slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare
that this state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many
have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof.
They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state.
They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual
prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply
to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul
delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and
will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second Advent Review and
Sabbath Herald, 11-07-82.
COUNTERPART:
"In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious
jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was
impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear
away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the
jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if
he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar
work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were
greatly disturbed when he did this work [As are SDAs
today!]. They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought
it again to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from
superstition and error." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 308.
There is a
modern COUNTERPART to the ancient apostate "chosen people" of God.
That modern COUNTERPART is the people who claim to be the modern "chosen
people" of God, the remnant, if you will.
There are over
100 statements to the affect that SDAs are
repeating the history of ancient Israel. Here are just a few of them:
"I have
been shown that the spirit of the world is fast leavening the church. You are
following the same path as did ancient Israel. There is the same falling away
from your holy calling as God's peculiar people. You are having fellowship
with the unfruitful works of darkness. Your [ecumenical] concord with
unbelievers have provoked he Lord's displeasure. You know not the things that
belong to your peace, and they are fast being hid from your eyes. [The very
words applied to fallen Israel on page 17 of The Great Controversy] Your
neglect to follow the light will place you in a more unfavorable
position than the Jews upon whom Christ pronounced a woe." Testimonies,
vol. 5, pp. 75-76.
"Like
ancient Israel, the church has dishonored her God by departing from the
light, neglecting her duties, and abusing her high and exalted privilege of
being peculiar and holy in character. Her members have violated their
covenant to live for God and him only. They have joined with the selfish and
world-loving. Pride, the love of pleasure, and sin have been cherished, and
CHRIST HAS DEPARTED. His Spirit has been quenched in the church. Satan works
wide by side with professed Christians yet they are so destitute of spiritual
discernment that they do not detect him." E.G. White, Testimonies, vol.
2, pp. 441-442.
"Among
the professed followers of Christ, there is the same pride, formalism,
vainglory, selfishness, and OPPRESSION, that existed in the Jewish
nation." E.G. White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, 251-252.
"God's
professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are
worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshipers who
have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, vol. 2, 441-442.
Am I remiss in
observing (reasoning) that worse than heathen, graven-image worshippers,
means worse than Babylon? Especially after knowing the truth and a knowledge
of a better way! If I am how and why? and if I am I apologize. By the above
statement it is flattery, presumption, and patronization error to refer to the
apostate SDA church as Babylon! No, let it not be said by anyone that Ron
Beaulieu has said that the church is Babylon! I concur with Ellen White that
God's professed people are worse than Babylonian heathen graven image idol
worshippers! Worse than Catholics! Worse than the great Whore! Why? Because
they had the light of truth and have willfully
united with the great whore in business partnership! Ellen White said we are
never to unite with unbelievers in business partnership, let alone the great
Whore of Babylon! However, I concur with Ellen White that the church could
and indeed has become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird, language
that is distinctly applied to Babylon in Revelation 18, but Ellen White said
it and not I. Credit her and not me. I am agreeing with her.
"If the
church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with
God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and
become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the
cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to
hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day
Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God,
and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal
churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches
who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.
If Laodicea is
not regarded with any more favor by God than the fallen churches, and the
call of Laodicea is to all churches, then there is no difference between
Laodicea and the fallen churches as far as being in a fallen state is
concerned. Different churches believe different aspects of Babylonian
teachings, but Ellen White equates them all as far as falling from the favor
of God is concerned, and as far as constituting the habitation of devils and
the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
"We must
as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful
intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We
are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our
churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for
every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided
movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No.
449, pp. 17, 18. (Letter 51, 1886 to Elder Butler) Testimonies on Sexual
Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce, p. 193.
"Now it
is just EXACTLY as in the days of the Jews. When a message came in, why all
the power of the leaders [such some leaders on this forum] WAS PUT AGAINST
IT, THAT IT SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE. Now, brethren, GO TO GOD
FOR YOURSELVES, and on your knees plead with God...If God sends us light, let
it come to us, and let no man close the door, or try to close it. Don't close
it yourselves. Open the door of your heart and let the brilliant rays of
light shine into your heart and into your mind. I pray you, let the Sun of
Righteousness in." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #900, Manuscript 9,
1890. 1888 Materials, p. 541.
Dear reader, I
can tell you that all the power of many SDA leaders and some of the laity on
many different SDA Internet forums, SDA Campmeetings, and in other circles,
has been put against my warning message that it should not have access to the
people. But God has assured me that this warning message will go to the
earnest seekers for truth.
God bless,
Ron Beaulieu
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