Subject: Geisha Chic (Was: Face, Name, Identity)
> > In today's Japan, being a good-looking "half (with white)"
> > is not so bad. They can dream of becoming a model
> > or something.
>
> That is the case here as well. A forward-looking magazine
> article I read a number of years ago speculated that the
> "Asian look" would one day be fashionable in mainstream
> Western culture.
I wonder if we're on the verge of an "Asian-hip" fad? I see that Madonna
has been cultivating what to me is a somewhat ghoulish-looking affectation
-- a techno-geisha getup -- for her new single and album and video.
"Entertainment Tonight" showed a preview of the video, and said Madonna
will be performing the song in her geisha getup on the 1999 Grammy Awards
broadcast.
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> I wonder if we're on the verge of an "Asian-hip" fad?
> I see that Madonna has been cultivating what's to me
> a somewhat ghoulish-looking affectation -- a techno-
> geisha getup -- for her new single and album and video.
Madonna has been pretty much everyone else!
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> Madonna has been cultivating what to me is a somewhat
> ghoulish-looking affectation -- a techno-geisha getup --
> for her new single and album and video. "Entertainment
> Tonight" showed a preview of the video, and said Madonna
> will be performing the song in her geisha getup on the
> 1999 Grammy Awards broadcast.
for those of you who didn't see the Grammys yesterday, I was impressed!
it was the best ... and u know what?
Madonna was wearing a faux kimono and was singing in a Japanese
rock garden set. too cool. my friend is writing an article for our school
newspaper about how Japanese (pop) culture is slowly seepin' into American
culture. incredible!
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> for those of you who didn't see the Grammys yesterday,
> I was impressed! it was the best ... and u know what?
> Madonna was wearing a faux kimono and was singing
> in a Japanese rock garden set. too cool.
Madonna dressing like a geisha is offensive to me because she views the
kimono as a "costume" rather than ethnic clothing. It also implies, and I
know others will say I'm reading too much into it ... but to many people,
wearing a kimono represents something exotic, sexy, mysterious, etc. which
many non-Asian men associate with sex. When I see a woman in a kimono,
and especially a geisha it represents much more depth, commitment to
training and culture, etc. I react when others take it lightly.
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> Madonna dressing like a geisha is offensive to me
> because she views the kimono as a "costume" rather than
> ethnic clothing. It also implies, and I know others will say
> I'm reading too much into it ... but to many people, wearing
> a kimono represents something exotic, sexy, mysterious, etc.
> which many non-Asian men associate with sex.
I definitely think that to Madonna, a kimono is this year's lace negligee.
She's made a pop career of packaging sexuality and I'm sure she's buying
into the geisha look as an exotic/sexual image.
That's too bad, not to mention she looks ugly and weird in her faux-Japanese look.
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> When I see a woman in a kimono, and especially a geisha
> it represents much more depth, committment to training
> and culture, etc. I react when others take it lightly.
I agree. And my African American friends react when they see white
kids from the 'burbs wearing dreads. The Rastas have a whole spiritual
thing that goes along with dreads (and pot) with poverty and Caribbean
politics as part of the mix. Ain't no way most middle class kids are going
to get it. No matter how dirty their faces, they can aways go home to Mama.
The ultimate irony is a recent incident where a gang of Irish Catholic
ex-parochial school youths badly beat a black spectator at a basketball game.
the gang's name? The Bro's. Bro' (short for Brother) is one of the many
black street terms that get adopted by "hip" white kids and become mainstream.
As one friend puts it, they steal our language, our music, our style.
When are they going to recognize that African Americans are creative?
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
I found the exchange about geisha and kimono interesting. I learned yet
another aspect of the JA inner make-up regarding things Japanese.
I thought I would post the many dictionary definitions of "geisha"
(in the order they appear in KOJIEN ):
- Persons with various artistic skills. Persons who
excel in the skills of games and plays, as in "Gei Tassha."
- Persons whose profession is to perform certain artistic skills,
e.g. Noh play actors, kabuki actors, haiku poets (= "haikai-shi"), etc.
- Someone whose job is to carry taiko (for the artists who dance to
the taiko rhythms, usually geisha or artists). Otoko (male) Geisha = "Hokan."
- Persons whose profession is to provide entertainment at the en-kai
occasion (where sake or other alcoholic beverages are served) by singing,
dancing, playing of shamisen.
So there are various meanings and innuendos in the term "geisha."
Of course, the general American usage usually connotes a certain life for
a specific type of women in Japan. It is very interesting how Americans
generally use it to mean only a certain stereotyped image of women,
defintion (4) as given here.
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> It is very interesting how Americans generally use it
> to mean only a certain stereotyped image of women,
> defintion (4) as given here.
I think "geisha" means definition #4 for most Japanese people as well.
For those with artistic skills (definitions #1-3) "gei-nin" may be prefered.
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> It is very interesting how Americans generally use it
> to mean only a certain stereotyped image of women,
> defintion (4) as given here.
I think when most Americans hear "geisha", they don't equate the term with a
performer of traditional arts, but instead they think of a prostitute.
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> I wonder if we're on the verge of an "Asian-hip" fad?
In their September issue, 'Seventeen' magazine went all the way to Japan
and featured Asia University (my parents said it is a university for
"left-overs", but anyways) on their School Zone section where they take
pictures of random students, post random quotes about life or their fashion etc.
I was so happy to see this I wrote them a letter!
If you have the guts to pick one off the shelf and check it out! hahahaha.
O.K., I gotta go read my summer reading books!
one of them is "Memoirs of a Geisha". It's an ok
book. You can't stop reading it, but still sometimes
the narration sounds too phony. Sounds like a
non-Japanese guy talking instead of a Maiko-san
or Geisha-san. Anyone thought the same thing?
ok jyane!
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> "Memoirs of a Geisha". It's an ok book. You can't
> stop reading it, but still sometimes the narration
> sounds too phony. Sounds like a non-Japanese
> guy talking instead of a Maiko-san or Geisha-san.
> Anyone thought the same thing?
Some of the characters didn't seem quite right to me -- too Western.
But do you think that the book changed your opinion or, for that matter,
Westerners' opinions of geisha? I think it lowered my opinion, though I am
not sure what my opinion was before I read the book.
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> > "Memoirs of a Geisha".
>
> Some of the characters didn't seem quite right
> to me -- too Western. But do you think that the
> book changed your opinion or, for that matter,
> Westerners' opinions of geisha? I think it lowered
> my opinion, though I am not sure what my opinion
> was before I read the book.
I really enjoyed "Geisha" but I understand and accept the criticisms of the
book too. For me, it elevated my opinion and knowledge of the geisha
lifestyle, and more important, I think in general it helped educate and
inform Americans about the geisha lifestyle. I could be wrong, though. I'm
probably naive about cultural exchange -- I tend to think the're good even
if they're not super accurate. In that sense, I even approve in a way of
the dumb "Asian" things in the Williams-Sonoma catalog.
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> I'm probably naive about cultural exchange -- I tend to
> think the're good even if they're not super accurate.
> In that sense, I even approve in a way of the dumb
> "Asian" things in the Williams-Sonoma catalog.
What I like about fads is the Chinese theme that Macy's had one year and
all the kanji they put up around the store UPSIDE DOWN and
SIDEWAYS culturally sensitive they are not.....but it was
hilarious!!!
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> What I like about fads is the Chinese theme that Macy's
> had one year and all the kanji they put up around the
> store UPSIDE DOWN and SIDEWAYS culturally sensitive
> they are not.....but it was hilarious!!!
This is indeed hilarious! Has anyone seen these t-shirts by Paul Frank
(I think I have the name correct)? In Japanese, it reads "watashi wa baka na
amerikajin" (trans. "I am a stupid American"). I saw these at the San Francisco
Urban Outfitters. People were looking at me strangely when I suddenly
started laughing. Well, Japanese might be "hip", but it's good to know what
you're getting into!
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> I'm probably naive about cultural exchange -- I tend to
> think the're good even if they're not super accurate.
> In that sense, I even approve in a way of the dumb
> "Asian" things in the Williams-Sonoma catalog.
I saw the "Japanese" stuff at Williams Sonoma, too.
What's the deal with the donburi bowls and the chopstick holes? Seems
inconvenient to use. I can't believe how expensive that stuff is. But as you
say, any interest by mainstream America in Asia is better than none...
Subject: Re: Geisha Chic
> I saw the "Japanese" stuff at Williams Sonoma, too.
> What's the deal with the donburi bowls and the
> chopstick holes?
My mom was really scornful of the bowls with the slots to hold chopsticks.
My mom lives in a black-and-white world. To her, those bowls in the
Williams-Sonoma catalog were goofy attempts at verdesign. She understood
that the hole and the lip on the other side of the bowl help chopsticks
stay parked (this is only useful for round chocpsticks because the squared
chopsticks would stay just fine on top of a regular bowl). But she also
thought that the way the chopstick were cradled at an angle, they seemed to
be standing up in the food, which is a really rude thing to do.
All of this reminds me of the late '70s (or was it early '80s?) when there
was a big China fad in the U.S. I remember Bloomingdales in NYC decorated
the entire store in Chinese themes, and of course sold woks and everything
imaginable that had any relation to China. I find these passing fancies
tedious because they're so obvious and market-manipulated. But then, that's
American consumerism for you -- I guess the trick for great success is to
guess what the next damn fad will be!
So now it is Japan style with clothing resembling kimonos and
chopsticks as hairpieces. OK, by me. Mainstream America can interpret
Japan any way they want -- look at how Japan interprets American style!
Subject: Re: Geisha chic
> Japanese might be "hip" [in America]
On the other side of the coin, in Japan these days,
people seem to want to look anything but Japanese.
For young people, it's hip to be hip hop -- Adidas
track pants, baggy T-shirts, toques etc. 1970s looks
are being recycled as well. And the hit clothing item of
summer 1999 was the South Pacific pareo.
Hair bleach use by Japanese of all ages is up, WAY up.
I never thought it was possible to make black hair blond!
Subject: Re: Geisha chic
> < Japanese youth fashion in Summer 1999 >
Maybe for Japanese, it's STILL hip to be American....
