Subject: Get Over It, Already! (Was: Land of Rising Sun Bad?)
The war has been over for 45 years. It's time for people to move on and not
wallow in the mistakes (both US and Japan) of the past. However, I do see
from monitoring the posts and essays of this board, that many Japanese
Americans are still bothered by this after all of these years.
Here, I (a non-Nikkei American)
will ask a general question to all that subscribe to this service
which you may choose to answer in good faith, or completely ignore. What is
it about the events of WWII that you find troublesome? The fact Japan lost
the war? Dosen't the fact the Japan was able to rise up and become one of the
leading countries in the industrial world despite the hardships of WWII mean
anything? Why is the war still a sore point in your general psyche?
I'm sorry, since subscribing to this service late last year, I've seen
nothing but a "cry baby" mentality from most, (not all, and I do reiterate
that), about the events of World War II. I need to ask this of all of
you. What will make this pain and guilt, that many of you, if not all had
nothing to do with finally go away? Get over it, already!
Subject: Re: Get Over It, Already!
> The war has been over for 45 years. It's time for people to
> move on and not wallow in the mistakes (both US and Japan)
> of the past. However, I do see from monitoring the posts and
> essays of this board, that many Japanese Americans are still
> bothered by this after all of these years.
If you're talking about the JA internment camps, I'm personally
bothered by it because I feel it can still happen today. It's not
only a Japanese "American" issue (as many people see it), but an issue
for "all" Americans, because it was a test of the U.S. Constitution
and Bill of Rights. Yes, Redress did happen for JAs, but no reason
to make it a dead issue. There are still Americans who have "never"
heard about it, and we "should" learn from the lessons of history.
The next time, it might not be JAs, but perhaps, Arab Americans,
or it might be some other ethnic American group.
(And I would say the same to the Japanese WWII history, that
people shouldn't forget the lessons learned.)
Also, racism and prejudice is still a relevant issue. The
U.S. is a country of immigrants and diversity, and issues like
race, identity, and culture are important to know and understand.
WWII is long gone, and I wasn't even born then, but it still
affects Japanese/Asian Americans. I still get racial
slurs thrown my direction from other Americans who have some
resentment against Japanese or Asians. When I was in Ohio, my
Toyota's window got smashed in and vandalized, with anti-Asian
graffiti written on it. Because I or my car was Japanese?
Remants of WWII and Japanese prejudice? Or just racism in
general? Who knows? The past maybe doesn't get left behind
that easily. Yes, we should move on.
A few months ago, I was walking on the streets of Little Tokyo,
LA, a white man said to me, "Where can I find someone who
speaks English? This country was a good place before YOU people
came. I'm an ex-Marine, and it gets me angry to know this
is what I fought for." A black man said, "I heard that Japanese
hate Black people. Is that true?" For me, I'm a sansei, but
I still can't just walk on the street, and blend into becoming
the "mainstream American" -- that's my reality, so that's
why I can't "get away".
I feel that WWII events affect JA's because many of their lives
changed drastically, including freedoms and a certain faith in
the American system. It affects younger JA's too, since many
Nisei parents have remained silent about this for over 45 years.
I feel that has a lot to do with it. It's for the same reason,
old WWII vets talk about it -- it was a significant part of
their lives.
> What is it about the events of WWII that you find troublesome?
> The fact Japan lost the war? Dosen't the fact the Japan was able
> to rise up and become one of the leading countries in the
> industrial world despite the hardships of WWII mean anything?
> Why is the war still a sore point in your general psyche?
To me, your questions show that you don't understand Japanese Americans
or the issues too well. Maybe this is only an "insider" thing --
I don't know. Perhaps these are good questions, since I feel myself
that JAs are still probably misunderstood in the mainstream society.
I've been in Little Tokyo too long, and take many things for granted,
so maybe this is a good "reality check".
> I'm sorry, since subscribing to this service late last year,
> I've seen nothing but a "cry baby" mentality from most, (not all,
> and I do reiterate that), about the events of World War II.
> I need to ask this of all of you ... What will make this pain
> and guilt, that many of you, if not all had nothing to do with
> finally go away?
I've seen "much" more than a "cry baby" mentality on this list.
Are we talking about the same "Ties-Talk"? Then we see things
differently, and maybe that's all I can say. I do not feel
it is right to judge people too harshly for what they consider
important. I feel it's true that many people carry pain,
but it's not all about WWII -- it's a lot more than that.
What else can I say? If you look around this message archive
you will see categorized a lot of the different issues that
have been talked about on this list.
Can I ask a question to you, about why you, as a non-Nikkei
American, are interested in the issues discussed on the list?
What issues interest you?
Oh well...
Subject: Re: Get Over It, Already!
For me (and I suspect some others on this list), there's certainly no
feelings about Japan having lost the war I have mixed feelings about how
brutal Japan was in executing the war and find mself trying to both identify
with and disassociating myself from the Japanese mentality of those times.
The simple reality for Japanese Americans -- something that "hakujin" or
Caucasians probably can't identify with, no matter how close they are to
Japan -- is that because of how we look, people will always associate us
with Pearl Harbor and atrocities and every other piece of emotional baggage
they bring to stereotypes. Some people will always identify us with the
victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but in my experience, I get the hatred
side of racism more often. It's just something we can't escape because
others won't let us.
On the other hand, I think our self-image as a community has in the past
relied far too much on a "victim" profile because of the Internment. I'm all for
thinking about ethical and moral issues on both sides of the Pacific, but
I'm also all for moving on and letting the next generations carve out their
place in our country's cultural stew/salad/melting pot.
Subject: Re: Get Over It, Already!
> I'm sorry, since subscribing to this service late last year,
> I've seen nothing but a "cry baby" mentality from most, (not all,
> and I do reiterate that), about the events of World War II.
> I need to ask this of all of you ... What will make this pain
> and guilt that many of you, if not all, had nothing to do with
> finally go away?
I think it is comments like these that remind me that Japanese Americans
still have a long way to go. I want to first emphasize that the majority of
the people on this list are Japanese Americans, and the focus of this list
(that I can tell) is about Japanese American issues. That said, I think it
is important for people to realize (but Americans, most of all) that
Japanese Americans are Americans, and not Japanese. Many of us have been
Americans for several generations (I am 3rd generation or sansei), and many
of our ancestors who lived before and during the war were also American
citizens (and NOT -- must I repeat NOT) Japanese citizens.
The reason the second world war is still a sore point has a lot to do with
the fact that Japanese Americans were incarcerated because they looked like
the enemy and had names like the enemy. I won't go on, but suffice it to say
that this experience is the most unfortunate reminder that most Americans
cannot differentiate between Japanese citizens and American citizens of
Japanese descent (Though there doesn't seem to be as much a problem in
distunguishing the differences between European and African Americans from
citizens of Europe and Africa).
Quite frankly, it doesn't personally bother me that Japan lost the war. The
fact is, the country of my citizenship won the war (the US) and my American
relatives who fought in Europe and the Pacific helped contribute to that
victory. I also don't benefit much from Japan's economic rise after the war.
In fact, it is more a nuisance when shop keepers would try to overcharge me
or people on the street would treat me poorly, thinking I was a rich
Japanese tourist -- or worse yet, seeing Asian Americans harmed because other
Americans want to take out their frustrations on a "Japanese" (Think auto
industry in the 1980s). I also don't care that much if the Japanese economy
is in recession or on the rise -- what I care about is that the American economy is
now booming. Do you see the difference? Sure, I still have relatives who are
Japanese citizens living in Japan, and I care that what happens to Japan
affects them. But it's not the same as what happens to America, because that
affects us.
I realize that this kind of thinking is not limited to mainstream America
(and Canada). I am aware of the atrocities Japan committed
during those years, and Chinese/ABCs, Filipinos/FAs, Koreans/KAs etc. etc.
look at JAs and are reminded of those years in a negative way. In fact, it
still takes me a while to get beyond this barrier when dealing with
Asians/Asian Americans who remember the Japanese in this way. They often
don't realize what had happened to my family and thousands of others during
that same time. I even don't think my Chinese in-laws can quite get past
this, either, though they now know JA history, and how my family fits into
it. I find that I am, in fact, the most comfortable around Chinese Americans
from the earlier immigrations who also lived alongside Japanese/Japanese
Americans in the days before the war because they knew what happened. In
talking with some, I get the feeling that they felt badly about what
happened to J/JAs, but were glad they weren't sent to the camps (though I am
sure they know that something like that could happen to them if US relations
with China soured). When I tell them I'm "second generation" (Same as sansei
in their way of counting the generations), they understand.
What would make some of this pain go away? Some of it has, though it took 40
years for the internment to be recognized as a mistake by our government.
Because my parents' generation, the nisei, were so quite about the negative
aspects of the internment, we could never discuss these things freely. But
now, my generation ranges in age from 30s-50s--we're finally at points in
our lives where we can talk and learn about what happened, and do something
about it (I think sansei and yonsei generations have finally inherited
American "pro-active-ness"). Most of us have moved on from the camp days,
but Japanese Americans (and other ethnic American groups, too) still need to
be recognized by Americans as fellow citizens. Why do you think there were
some posts on this list criticizing "Snow Falling On Cedars" for casting
a Japanese citizen for the lead Japanese American role--and supposedly
played it with a noticeable Japanese accent?
Subject: Re: Get Over It, Already!
I thought that was a pretty good answer, and I would say similar
being sansei too. Thanks for taking the time and writing all this out.
I assumed most people on the list understood this, so never really
thought of telling the whole JA story. JAs are a pretty diverse
group, though, and I don't want to exclude the issei and new
post-war immigrants -- but as much as there are JA
senators and congressmen, decorated war veterans, and
people of Japanese ancestry at all levels of society,
full acceptance as so-called Americans is not there yet.
It got me a bit depressed, though, and got me wondering how
much has really changed in understanding of JAs as (real)
"Americans". I don't really blame the non-Nikkei American for his
questions, but maybe it does show how little the mainstream society
understands this concept, as hard as JAs (and Asian Americans) have
tried to "prove" their so-called American-ness over the many years
and generations. I've once had to explain similar issues when I was
in grad school with PhD candidates in history (who I thought should
know better).
Subject: Re: Get Over It, Already!
> I would say similar being sansei too. JAs are a pretty diverse
> group, though, and I don't want to exclude the issei and new
> post-war immigrants.
I didn't mean to exclude post-war immigrants, though I do not know how
they might feel about Japan's actions during the Second World War or
their allegiance to Japan today. I can only speak for myself.
Perhaps the newer nisei on this list could respond to that, or
naturalized citizens originally from Japan.
On a more general level, I am sure that many different ethnic American
groups still face the problem of being recognized as "real" Americans, too
(Even African Americans, though I think their story has and is still being
told in most classrooms, and they have a stronger media presence.).
> I am aware of the atrocities Japan committed during those years,
> and that Chinese/ABCs, Filipinos/FAs, Koreans/KAs etc. etc.
> look at JAs and are reminded of those years in a negative way.
> In fact, it still takes me a while to get beyond this barrier
> when dealing with Asians/Asian Americans who remember the
> Japanese in this way.
I still don't expect mainstream America to know the difference between
ethnic Americans and foreigners, but perhaps I have higher expectations from
ethnic Americans who must face the same problems that we do.
On a somewhat related topic, I haven't seen anyone refer to this page on
Asian Americans. I have found it amusing and informative:
GoldSea
http://goldsea.com/index.html
There was a nice article on this site on "parsing Asian America" by Maxie
Gondo, who is part Japanese American and Chinese American, and is married to
a Corean (Korean) American.
Parsing Asian America
http://goldsea.com/AAD/Parsing/parsing.html
Subject: Re: Get Over It, Already!
That was some kind of passion-filled statement you posted!
But I liked it a lot in that I learned about where you're coming from,
so to speak. It's not always that one hears about such a visceral statement.
I have a few comments of my own to make, prompted by yours.
> I also don't care that much if the Japanese economy is in recession
> or on the rise -- what I care about is that the American economy is
> now booming. Do you see the difference? Sure, I still have relatives
> who are Japanese citizens living in Japan, and I care that what
> happens to Japan affects them. But it's not the same as what happens
> to America, because that affects us.
Whether JAs (particularly those whose immigrant roots go back to the early part of
the 20th century) like it or not, we are connected to Japan in many ways.
You say Japan's prosperity or demise does not matter much. It may be so, as
far as your personal situation is concerned. But, for the JA community as a
whole, it's a lot more complex - to wit, the amount of money that has come
into various JA projects in the last two decades (though increasingly less
lately), e.g., JACCC, JANM, just to name a few. Though it's very difficult
to establish the Japanese connection, a large number of JAs - not only the
newcomers but also some of the more established JA figures - are well
connected to Japanese business interests.
Those who know me well know that I am somewhat anti-Japanese in many of the
sentiments I hold vis-a-vis my homeland (which I left at the age 18). I
find a lot of things that I really dislike about Japan and I am not bashful
about mentioning about my feelings - both orally and in my writings, as
ineffective as they might be. But, as a social scientist, I feel that I
have to always make my best effort to understand what is truth and what is
not. I am not, for example, totally convinced what Iris Chan discusses in
her book "Rape of Naking" is all documented in objective truth. But, I
don't know enough about it and I definitely don't want to make any flippant
comments. So, I have been reading quite a bit about the subject - mostly in
Japanese (where, contrary to some arguments in this T-T line as well as
elsewhere, many sincere efforts are being made to document it - both from
the rightist and leftist perspectives). I often hear JAs
make what I consider to be rather emotional arguments about this subject as
well as others; but, I don't always feel they are factually correct about
what they say. I feel it's the responsibility of those of us who can
research things out both in English and Japanese to uncover as much truth
as we can.
Though I still have some ties there in Japan - mainly through my two sisters
and their family members, I consider myself an American, albeit a
naturalized citizen. I have been involved in various political activities -
some of which might have been questionable in tactics (if not outright
illegal). For example, I actively opposed the war in Viet Nam (even going
to Japan to help organize GIs to oppose the war effort) - something that
many of my older nisei friends looked at me with obvious disdain. I did so
on the basis of principles that I strongly believed in. I have always
carried out my political acts because I wanted to express my conviction but
not to defy the U.S. for the sake of it. I've always done so because I
believe strongly in the notion of citizenship - sometimes even in opposing
the government action. Perhaps, some of the things I have been involved
with are not as clear in the eyes of others as would like to believe. But I
feel that I have been living my American life with full sense of citizenry
participation.
I decided to leave Japan because of the circumstance of my family - I would
have found receiving the university education very difficult in the 1950s
Japan. I came to the States thinking as though I was immigrating but not to
return. My immediate family members were not sent to the concentration
camps but nonetheless suffered a lot because of the war just like millions
of other ordinary Japanese people. My U.S. experiences in the 42 years are
no less genuine than anyone's - nisei's or sansei's. We - meaning more
"established" JAs and newcomers like myself alike - have some common
historical past but certainly not all of it. All I could do is to learn
from the collective history of Japanese in the U.S. through their 125 years
of history. We all have the responsibility of keeping the legacy of the
immigrant past. To me, the most important thing is to uphold the
spirit/collective behavior of fairness and fulfillment of citizenry
responsibility. I know I am far from perfect but I could only try to get
better - one step at the time.
Thank you for inspiring me to say my piece.
Subject: Re: Get Over It, Already!
Thank you for posting this! It helps me better understand things, too.
You have a very refreshing view of things perhaps because you
have truly lived in 2 different worlds and can appreciate the best and worst
of each -- and your professional background certainly helps.
And no, I do not mean to imply that Japan's economy doesn't matter much, but
it matters less than what some might expect. I am always very impressed when
Japan takes an interest in Japanese American institutions. Certainly Japan's
economy affects the entire US! But in my case, I don't pay taxes in Japan, I
don't own Japanese land or securities -- my financial interests are in the US.
Many non-JAs don't realize this, even though I think it is stating the
obvious. And no, I don't deny any link to Japan, far from it -- but I am not the
same as a Japanese national. For example, if some says to me,
"Your English is good,"
it is _not_ a compliment, but a reminder that we still have a ways to go.
Last updated 14 April 2000