Subject: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei (Was:
Some Questions about JA, New Immigants and Japanese)
It is interesting to view the responses of Japanese nationals
towards Americans of Japanese descent. If you have never had a REAL
talk with a Japanese national about being Japanese -- try it some time!
When I lived in Southern California, I had occasion to work with many
Japanese nationals (my company thought I could position better with
"my own kind"! Gag!)
I got to know a past-president of a fairly closed organization of
ex-pat Japanese nationals. I asked if I could join.
My friend was very interested in why I would want to hang out
with a bunch of Japanese. I thought it might be educational.
He told me that it would be hard for an American to be with Japanese.
Hey, but I spoke acceptable Nihongo!
(key word is "spoke" -- can't read worth a darn, but I can talk.
It was tough using Nihongo where I grew up).
He said "no", they would not accept an American ... especially an
American of Japanese decent.
Evidently, many (older) Japanese still view Japanese Americans as
"traitors". Yeah, go figure! He said, "You may look Japanese, feel
Japanese and speak Japanese, but you are not Japanese."
I guess I assumed too much.
But, in retrospect, yes, I am American, I am not Japanese and never
will be. I will always be American with a rich ethnic heritage that
originated in Japan after my grandparents came to America to start new
lives in a new culture.
Ad nauseum: I love where I live, but it was pretty shocking in the first
years to be asked how long I had been in this country ... by strangers
and neighbors. Now, I just respond to questions of where in Japan I
came from with, "a city near the Pacific Ocean called San Francisco".
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> It is interesting to view the responses of Japanese nationals
> towards Americans of Japanese decent. If you have never had a REAL
> talk with a Japanese national about being Japanese -- try it some time!
some of my most memorable conversations about nikkei identity have been
with japanese people in japan.
when i was there a few years back, i spent a few days with a japanese friend
and her boyfriend from holland and another friend from australia.
they were both pale, with blond hair and blues eyes --
everyone we met from her family went directly
to them to say hello and passed right by me, of course.
when they heard me speaking english, they couldn't believe it.
although she explained my background, her cousin remained stunned
-- she said "but she looks japanese!"
they were nice and not disrespectful at all. they didn't come down
on me for not speaking japanese ... but, also -- i didn't try.
i think they eventually got it that i'm "like an american."
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> when they heard me speaking english, they couldn't believe it.
> although she explained my background, her cousin remained stunned
> -- she said "but she looks japanese!"
Most Japanese people are surprised if they see someone with a Japanese appearance
speaking another language, or someone with a non-Japanese appearance speaking fluent Japanese.
I was one of them and that's why I was interested in this mailing list.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> I love where I live, but it was pretty shocking in the first years to be asked
> how long I had been in this country ... by strangers and neighbors.
Nice comment ... it's funny, though several people on this list have
related the same experience about being asked how long they've been in the
U.S., no one has ever asked me that. I wonder if I'm so Americanized that
even Americans can tell I'm one of "them." Must be all the cussing I do.....
> Evidently, many (older) Japanese still view Japanese Americans
> as "traitors". Yeah, go figure! He said, "You may look Japanese,
> feel Japanese and speak Japanese, but you are not Japanese."
I guess he's right. Even if some of us think we're very Japanese, we're not
-- to the Japanese. I've given that a lot of thought the past month,
and come to the conclusion that yes, I'm the way I am more because
I'm American than Japanese. That makes me ... Japanese American.
I do rather prefer that to American Japanese.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> Evidently, many (older) Japanese still view Japanese Americans as
> "traitors". Yeah, go figure! He said, "You may look Japanese, feel
> Japanese and speak Japanese, but you are not Japanese."
Sadly, xenophobia is present in every culture.
My father had a similar experience but in reverse. He was born in
Japan and came to Canada as an adult. He became a Canadian citizen,
and has been living in Canada for over 20 years. In a previous job,
he worked with Japanese Canadians, and when talking to them,
said that he thought of himself as 'Japanese Canadian'. The others,
who were nisei and sansei (about 70 and 50 years old respectively) said that
they didn't think of HIM as Japanese Canadian.
It seems many feel that to be a 'real' Nikkei, you, or your ancestors must
have experienced the Internment.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> Evidently, many (older) Japanese still view Japanese Americans as
> "traitors". Yeah, go figure! He said, "You may look Japanese, feel
> Japanese and speak Japanese, but you are not Japanese."
I guess JAs suffer the double-whammy of xenophobia from both racist
Americans and Japanese ... or am I stating that too strongly?
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
I guess JAs suffer the double-whammy of xenophobia from both racist
Americans and Japanese ... or am I stating that too strongly?
Naww ... we just have to remember our "place". But given my druthers,
I'll face the racism of Caucasians over Japanese! At least you know where
it's coming from!
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
- Your experience with this ex-pat Japanese group doesn't sound very unusual.
It is the same way in Japan with some formal and informal groups of
foreigners in being very exclusive about their membership.
- I don't really know if older Japanese regard the Nikkei as traitors, but
perhaps your friend was right when he said that you are not Japanese.
The experience of living among the Japanese in Japan will
probably help one determine just how Japanese one is.
- Contrary to what many people may believe, I don't think many of
our grandparents and/or great-grandparents went to the States to
start new lives there. Although many of them ended up staying
there, the real purpose was to work, make and send money to help
the family and/or save enough money and return to Japan. I think
the War suddenly changed everything for many of them, as it wiped
out most of what they had accomplished.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
I know my mother's father came here to make his riches and return to
Japan to resume his studies. My father's father came here to stay.
It may have been harsh to use the term "traitors"...
I'm not down on Japanese nationals ... I was just making a point that we tend
to focus on the prejudices and offenses towards JAs from a certain populace,
but fail to also recognize the back door.
Food for thought ...
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> It may have been harsh to use the term "traitors"...
One reason for that view might be the fact that some Nikkei-jin
came to America to avoid being drafted into the Japanese army
during the Russo-Japanese War. Granted, that was a while ago, but ...
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
I have recently become aware that some Japanese nationals treat
Japanese Americans with less respect than other races in the US.
Has anyone noticed this? Is there a bias against Japanese Americans?
For instance, if you go into a restaurant run by Japanese nationals,
do they serve Caucasian US citizens first and better and with
more respect than they do Japanese Americans?
What would be the reason for that? To be honest, I think
Japanese Americans and Japanese from Japan don't understand each other.
I think both lack respect for each other. What do you people think?
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
I've come across some Japanese nationals who look down on their
American cousins. It might be that they think that American Japanese
are backwards, far removed from today's contemporary Japanese society;
or they might be jealous of their American cousins who enjoy being part
of two cultures; or they are resentful that American Nikkei seemingly
are more Japanese in the traditional sense than contemporary Japanese.
But I've seen Japanese who talk down about American-born Japanese.
Too bad they have such attitudes.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> I've seen Japanese who talk down about
> American-born Japanese. Too bad they have such attitudes.
Too bad, too, if that includes ones who have immigrated here --
then it could be their own children they are talking about.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
>> I've seen Japanese who talk down about
>> American-born Japanese. Too bad they have such attitudes.
>
> Too bad, too, if that includes ones who have immigrated here --
> then it could be their own children they are talking about.
Most Japanese immigrants are rather respectful of Nikkei history,
and I see more of them really willing to learn more about
the long history of Japanese descendants in the U.S. and Canada.
My comment applied to those who are here in the U.S. for a short time,
usually for work ... a maximum of five years, as short as three years.
It isn't anything they say in public, it is what I have observed in
my work circle. And it is probably limited to a few.
You can tell who these people are: they spend most of their time
associating with European descendants and snub Nikkei at events and
activities. We Nikkei do some things we consider Japanese, but it may
not appear to be so to contemporary Japanese. Like any other
cultural centrists, there is a right way of doing things and
it is their way, any other way of doing things cannot be
possibly be right.
Most Japanese who come to the U.S. to live and work are more
respectful of their fellow Japanese Americans, than those who
come here for a short time have little time to change their views.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> My comment applied to those who are here in the U.S. for a short time,
> usually for work ... a maximum of five years, as short as three years.
> It isn't anything they say in public, it is what I have observed in
> my work circle. And it is probably limited to a few.
> You can tell who these people are: they spend most of their time
> associating with European descendants and snubbing Nikkei at events and
> activities.
In defence of their actions, their mandate during their limited stay over here
is to build ties and awareness of Japan among "North Americans", which to them
might not include the Nikkei. They might think that time spent with Nikkei-jin
is redundant -- that we have many ties and are already aware -- or wasted --
we have no ties, aren't aware and don't want to know. Either way, time with
Nikkei-jin is not constructively spent.
But some of us have only a few ties, are only partially aware
and want to know more ...
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> I've seen Japanese who talk down about
> American-born Japanese. Too bad they have such attitudes.
I'd like to offer an experience that greatly offended my Nikkei community.
An attempt was made to correct it, but it still left a bad taste
in my mouth and also made me realize that SOME Japanese from Japan really
look down on JAs along with other Asians.
When a Japanese college planned to establish a branch in my city,
members of the JA community offered to help the students adjust to living
in America, especially since the students would not see themselves as a
minority and would not recognize that instinctive feeling of "danger."
(In fact, one of the first court cases about hate crimes was in my city:
A group of students from the college celebrated a birthday by going to
a local park to sing and play the guitar. They were attacked by a
group of white teenagers armed with baseball bats.)
To make a long story short, when the Asian community and the Japanese
American community met for dinner with the acting president of the Japanese college,
he first insulted us by saying, "You know, in my country I would not be sitting
down at a meal with most of you, but in America you do that." The second
insult was he would rather have their students do week-end home visits
with "caucasians and even Mexicans" rather than Asians. It was a real
eye-opener for all of us. Also the college policy was to preferentially
hire Caucasians who speak Japanese rather than Japanese Americans who speak Japanese.
It's rather disappointing that an educational institution has such prejudices.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> The second insult was he would rather have their students do week-end
> home visits with "caucasians and even Mexicans" rather than Asians.
I think what is even more insulting, if he said the actual quote, is the
"even Mexicans" part, if I understand what he probably meant by it.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> To make a long story short, when the Asian community and the Japanese
> American community met for dinner with the acting president of the
> Japanese college, he first insulted us by saying, "You know, in my country
> I would not be sitting down at a meal with most of you, but in America you do that."
Maybe he meant this as a compliment (though awkwardly worded) about
America's democracy, in contrast to regimented Japan, where a college
president would never have the opportunity to meet the community?
> The second insult was he would rather have their students do week-end home visits
> with "caucasians and even Mexicans" rather than Asians. It was a real
> eye-opener for all of us. Also the college policy was to preferentially
> hire Caucasians who speak Japanese rather than Japanese Americans who speak Japanese.
> It's rather disappointing that an educational institution has such prejudices.
This may have more to the with the college's marketing program than
prejudice. Japanese parents would be more likely to fork over
the big bucks (er -- yen) for their children's overseas education
if they can be guaranteed the whole package of "Authentic American
Life". The picture most Japanese have of this simply does not
include JAs and Asians. To some degree we have Hollywood to thank
for this, since it is the main way people around the world learn
about (what they think is) America.
WRT homestays, again, they want to give their customers the most bang
for their buck (sorry, yen). Maybe they think that weekend visits to
a JA home would be perceived by potential customers as being like going
to a relative's home in Japan. Most Japanese parents would think,
"What is the point of paying for my kid to go all the way across
the Pacific for that? Mottainai!"
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
>> It's rather disappointing that an educational institution has such prejudices.
>
> This may have more to the with the college's marketing program than
> prejudice. Japanese parents would be more likely to fork over
> the big bucks (er -- yen) for their children's overseas education
> if they can be guaranteed the whole package of "Authentic American Life".
Even though there are but a few items left over from the culture
5,000 miles away, Asian American and Japanese Americans probably
have a better picture of how to act towards Japanese students.
And they have as much of an authentic American life as anyone else.
It is unfortunate that Japanese students come to the U.S. with this
attitude of wanting to experience "authentic American life" with
Caucasian Americans. It only perpetuates this thinking in later adult life.
The text of the college president's comments does not look severe,
but I have heard it said both ways, congenially and ... the other way.
True, in Japan, college presidents only sit down to eat with "important" people.
But it is unfortunate that they think it is the only way.
That they have forgotten to give respect to other humans.
I have had a lot of trouble making seating arrangements for fundraising events.
It is worse when you are expecting a crowd largely made of Japanese from Japan.
You have to be mindful of certain rankings -- rankings in position,
rankings among companies, etc. A junior official from General Motors
rates a "better" seat than the CEO of the Yugo car company, etc.
The worst time to have Japanese people in this country was when their
economy was strong. The yen was so powerful that politicians, company
executives and even students alike were all on their most arrogant
behavior. It was pitiful. If you had seen this, you would be
less sympathetic about their current troubles. In fact, I think this has happened
-- if the Japanese had not been so arrogant in the 1980s,
the world would be paying them more attention now than they are getting.
If the college president were giving his speech today, he probably would have
a different attitude.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> Even though there are but a few items left over from the culture
> 5,000 miles away, Asian American and Japanese Americans probably
> have a better picture of how to act towards Japanese students.
> And they have as much of an authentic American life as anyone else.
Sure, _I_ know that and _you_ know that, but do the Japanese students and their parents?
Apparently not. And if these policies persist will they ever get a chance to?
> The text of the college president's comments does not look severe,
> but I have heard it said both ways, congenially and ... the other way.
It might be useful to know whether this was a prepared statement or
an extemporaneous remark. If stories I have heard from my friends in
the diplomatic corps are true, more wars and bad feelings than one can
count have been averted by having speeches the big wigs composed
themselves checked over and rewritten by their more tactful staffers.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> It might be useful to know whether this was a prepared statement or
> an extemporaneous remark.
I forgot to indicate that the college president made his statement while seated at dinner.
He said to the others at his table, "eating a meal with Koreans and other people like you."
Sorry, I omitted that -- maybe it would explain why I reacted so negatively to him.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> Even though there are but a few items left over from the culture
> 5,000 miles away, Asian American and Japanese Americans probably
> have a better picture of how to act towards Japanese students.
> And they have as much of an authentic American life as anyone else.
Although it may be true that Asian American and Japanese
American probably have a better picture of how to act towards Japanese students,
I have to agree with the comments that the image of "Authentic American life"
as imagined by the Japanese simply does NOT include JAs and Asians.
It is very unfortunate but true that to many Japanese people, "authentic" American
lifestyle is equated with hakujin lifestyle, especially where the hakujin is
blond, with blue-eyes. This myth is perpuated by the Japanese media. Look at
the advertisements in Japan showing a foreigner: in virtually all cases it is a
blond, blue-eyed person. Not to belittle the situation, but money talks ...
these overseas schools are just meeting a need for which the students' parents are willing
to pay big bucks. These things persist because it is lucrative.
That college president sounds like a real arrogant SOB that one meets in any
culture or society and I don't think that he would have a different attitude
today, unless of course, he wanted a favor from you. And after you had done the
favor he would become his original arrogant self.
To avoid or minimize misunderstandings and/or disappointment(s) in dealing with
the Japanese, you should dealing with them just as you would people from
any other foreign culture or nation, be it France, India, Brazil, Turks, or wherever.
If you consider them cousins or distant relatives, you expect more and consequently
are more disappointed whenever things don't occur as anticipated.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> Japanese college presidents only sit down to eat with "important" people.
> I have had a lot of trouble making seating arrangements for fundraising events.
> It is worse when you are expecting a crowd largely of Japanese from Japan.
> You have to be mindful of certain rankings -- rankings in position,
> rankings among companies, etc. A junior official from General Motors
> rates a "better" seat than the CEO of the Yugo car company, etc..
A recent book (I'm not sure of the title ... "Japan: A Reinterpretation"?)
puts forward the idea that Japan didn't really become a democracy
after the War. Everyone wears business suits today and things _appear_
democratic, but a strict social hierarchy is still there, with a
corresponding code of behaviour. That is why the exchange of meishi
(business cards) is so important when people meet for the first time:
it lets people know where they stand in the pecking order and how
they should act toward each other.
The college dinner episode illustrates my earlier point about sansei
and yonsei not knowing where the Nihon-jin and shin-ijusha are coming
from. I am not condoning the college president's behaviour,
but earlier Nikkei generations might have realized _why_ he said
what he did, and perhaps would have cut him a little slack.
As it was, the dinner group reacted no differently than "regular"
Americans would have.
In a speech a few years ago, Akio Morita, then chairman of Sony Corp.,
acknowledged the crucial role the issei and nisei played in helping
Japanese companies gain a foothold in America through their bilingualism
and bicultural awareness.
Japanese Businesses Credit Postwar Success to Thousands of Emigres
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V115/N39/japanese39w.html
That bridge does not exist in most of today's younger Nikkei --
they can't speak Japanese and don't know Japanese culture.
This probably explains the Nihon-jin attitudes mentioned in earlier posts:
we are no longer assets or even allies in their eyes.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
My 6-year-old daughter is taking private lessons (only 30 min. once a week)
to maintain her English after a 2-year stay in the American Midwest.
Her teacher is a 25-year-old yonsei from LA, who came to Japan as a teacher
of the Japanese English Language School and still maintains the Japanese
"enryo" character, according to him.
He said that he is the last person who is not hapa (mixed) among his
relatives, and that he has been asked several times by the Japanese here
whether he is "hafu" ("half", mixed).
The Japanese do not ask that question because they know about the
JA's high intermarriage rate. They ask it simply because he speaks English
but his face is Japanese. Most Japanese cannot imagine an English-speaking
person having an Asian face. It is the consequence of the image
of the English language and the USA that is formed by the media.
I wonder if my daughter has a certain prejudice toward Nikkei-jin.
I don't think so. (Maybe she noticed some attitudes of white people
toward non-white people through the everyday experience in the Midwest.)
She likes her teacher a lot and we are grateful that we could meet him here in Japan.
Attitudes are made through education and media images, and we should
reconsider the contents if they induce some negative attitudes.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> My 6-year-old daughter is taking private lessons (only 30 min. once a week)
> to maintain her English after a 2-year stay in the American Midwest.
I hope she enjoys the lessons more than I did in going to
Japanese School as a child;
though now I regret not having studied harder, I am glad for the
cultural osmosis that took place despite my lack of endeavor.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
This has been an interesting topic for me, because it goes to the heart
of the Japanese American (and I guess general Nikkei-jin) identity....
Even though we consider ourselves "Japanese" to various degrees, what if
the country of our heritage doesn't think so? Yet, if Japanese don't
consider us somehow full-fledged Americans, where does that leave us?
And whose fault is this situation? How can we promote the image of Nikkei-jin
in Japan?
Now I feel like next time I go to Japan I'll be paranoid about being who I am!
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> Even though we consider ourselves "Japanese" to various degrees, what if
> the country of our heritage doesn't think so? Yet, if the Japanese don't
> consider us full-fledged Americans, where does that leave us?
You gotta ask yourself ... after three generations in this country, how
Japanese do you really expect to be?
But then, looking at and meeting with the current generation of young Japanese,
I don't think I would call them "Japanese" either. They
are very much like the youth anywhere. It just shows how the world is
more homogenous today and that there is
little that can be clearly defined as a specific culture any longer.
My observations are not meant as a derogatory statement towards
young Japanese nationals, but more a light humorous comment from
someone of another generation. I now recognize what my parents must
have seen in my generation when I was young.
Our parents and grandparents worked hard to integrate into America.
In their time, integration meant survival. Our generation has not
had to fight the same level of prejudice and discrimination to which
our parents and grandparents were exposed.
But, I think we were also raised to preserve a certain cultural
identity -- positive stereotypes of how we want to be perceived,
many of which we share fondly in these messages.
That, I think is the Japanese American culture -- not Japanese, not
American ... a little of both, a little unique.
So, if the Japanese don't view us as Japanese or as Americans, well, maybe
they are right. We _aren't_ Japanese and we _aren't_ American ...
we are Japanese American. And that's cool!
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
> If the Japanese don't view us as Japanese or as Americans, well, maybe
> they are right. We _aren't_ Japanese and we _aren't_ American ...
> we are Japanese American. And that's cool!
Your definition of Japanese American Culture is almost the same
as what my daughter's teacher said about his identity.
A little bit of both, a kind of unique. And I understand there
is a difference between each generation, and between Hapa Nikkei
and 100% Nikkei.
Subject: Re: Japanese Nationals Attitudes Towards Nikkei
Redefining "overseas Japanese", Daily Yomiuri, Nov. 8, 1994 edition
(an English language translation of an article which originally
appeared in the Japanese language Yomiuri Shimbun)
This newspaper article briefly discussed among other things,
the various forms of assistance the Japanese gov't available for Nikkei-jin,
in addition to special visas which they (we) are eligible for under
the 1990 revised Immigration Control Law.
The Immigration Control Law was revised in 1990 to help alleviate
the huge labor shortage that industry was suffering prior to the bursting
of the Japanese economic boom several years ago. A large number of Nikkei-jin
(over 100,000 by some accounts, mostly from South America) came to work
in many of the factories here.
An interesting point brought up by the article was that gov't assistance
and special visas are only available to the first through third generation
of Japanese descendants. In other words, the Japanese gov't views
fourth generation Nikkei-jin as being no different from other foreigners.
