Subject: Real Japan? (Was: J-School)
> something very profound to me was when the womyn with the
> Okinawa Women Against Military Violence came to L.A. last year
> to establish relations with groups and individuals here in the U.S.
> (regarding the horrific situation Okinawan people face due to the
> presence of U.S. military bases there). it was the first time i felt
> attached to people over an issue through the link of my heritage.
You might be interested in this story:
Police say Japanese consul called abuse a cultural matter
Vancouver police quote envoy as saying wife 'asked for it'
http://www.nationalpost.com/home.asp?f=990219/2293645.html
If that is the case, there are some parts of our heritage
we had best leave over in Japan.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> If that is the case, there are some parts of our heritage
> we had best leave over in Japan.
I also do not think it would be desirable
to adopt all the cultural aspects and customs of Japan.
In fact, although many have been shed already, there are
perhaps others which can also be selectively eliminated.
By the way, that case of wife beating by the "honorable" Japanese
consul made all the evening newspapers here in Tokyo last week.
In all due probability, the husband will be
transferred back to Japan in the very near future.
If (and that is a very BIG if) he is ever posted overseas again,
it will most likely be to a nation where the odds
of being kidnapped and held without ransom are very high.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> I also do not think it would be desirable
> to adopt all the cultural aspects and customs of Japan.
> In fact, although many have been shed already, there are
> perhaps others which can also be selectively eliminated.
Huh?
I don't know what kind of *Japanese* family you came from,
but I personally don't know anyone who would say "wife beating" is
a general part of Japanese culture or a custom ... This is just
crazy, man.
Or am I just ignorant of the "real Japan"? My
grandparents (first generation, old Japan, traditional folks)
lived with us, and I didn't see my grandfather beating up on
my grandmother every day to keep that Japanese tradition alive.
Perhaps, they assimilated better American values after they
immigrated here (sarcastic remark).
It is true that domestic violence is a social problem,
but certainly it is not "unique" to Japan. I know (personally)
European American familes and female friends who were abused
by their (white) husbands or boyfriends. Why is it that you
don't hear statements like, "wife beating is part of European
culture"? I think JAs are too quick to call something
"Japanese culture" when it is just "human nature"
(the good and evil sides of it).
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> It is true that domestic violence is a social problem,
> but certainly it is not "unique" to Japan. I know (personally)
> European American familes and female friends who were abused
> by their (white) husbands or boyfriends. Why is it that you
> don't hear statements like, "wife beating is part of European
> culture"? I think JAs are too quick to call something
> "Japanese culture" when it is just "human nature"
> (the good and evil sides of it).
I hope that is what the article was getting at -- pointing out
the absurdity of the Japanese consul's defence of his own actions.
But then it goes on to mention how he was trained in judo and
is a fan of sumo, so perhaps this falls into the "portrayal of
JA/Japanese in the media" category, with the problem being that
the Western media loves to pick up on negative things about
Japan and we (still) all get painted with the same brush,
and even buy into that thinking ourselves.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> It's true that domestic violence is a social problem,
> but certainly it is not "unique" to Japan. I know (personally)
> European American familes and female friends who were abused
> by their (white) husbands or boyfriends. Why is it that you
> don't hear statements like, "wife beating is part of European
> culture"? I think JA's are too quick to call something
> "Japanese culture" when it's just "human nature"
> (the good and evil sides of it).
True -- my Japanese co-worker and I were screaming with anger when we
heard what the consul said. That was his desperate attempt to excuse
himself for beating his wife. I also cannot get over the fact that the
government sent an ignorant person like him overseas to represent Japan.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> My grandparents (first generation, old Japan, traditional folks)
> lived with us, and I didn't see my grandfather beating up on
> my grandmother every day to keep that Japanese tradition alive.
> Perhaps, they assimilated better American values after they
> immigrated here (sarcastic remark).
My grandfather told my mother and I that if my great-grandmother didn't cook
meals to my great-grandfather's liking, or burned the food, she was beaten and
had to eat the burned food. From what he remembered, she was abused.
This was in 1896.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> My grandparents (first generation, old Japan, traditional folks)
> lived with us, and I didn't see my grandfather beating up on
> my grandmother every day to keep that Japanese tradition alive.
> Perhaps, they assimilated better American values after they
> immigrated here (sarcastic remark).
I have a not-very Japanese husband, a stereotypical Japanese father
(Of course, what you may consider a stereotypical Japanese male may vary)
and Meiji-era-born grandfather (who I miss). I don't believe wife beating
is part of the Japanese culture. I also think it is more of a social problem.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> I have a not-very Japanese husband, a stereotypical Japanese father
>(Of course, what you may consider a stereotypical Japanese male may vary)
> and a Meiji-era-born grandfather (who I miss). I don't believe
> wife beating is part of the Japanese culture. I also think
> it is more of a social problem.
My father is a typical Kyushu danji. But if he ever tried to lay a hand
on my mom, she would beat the crap out of him! In fact, most of the women on
both sides are kind of tsuyoi and kowai. Someone was telling me that a lot
of women in Kyushu are quite strong (or is it they're scary when angry? :P )
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> True -- both my Japanese co-worker and I were screaming with anger when we
> heard what the consul said. That was his desperate attempt to excuse
> himself for beating his wife. I also cannot get over the fact that the
> government sent an ignorant person like him overseas to represent Japan.
It's pretty sad to me that he represents Japan. I would guess,
though, that if this incident happened in Japan, wouldn't there be
some consequences? However, I can see Americans buying into
this "cultural" argument (due to their stereotypes of Asian
cultures) more than Japanese people.
As for domestic violence, people don't talk about it openly,
but it exists in the JA commnity as well as wealthy
white families and in the inner city urban areas. From what little
I know of domestic violence cases, some of it is alcohol-related.
I once had friend (white) from a typical working-class background who used to tell
me stories how her dad would often come home drunk and beat her. Very scary.
I visited their family and met her father (when he was sober), and I don't
think he was an "evil" person, but he certainly needed help.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> I don't know what kind of *Japanese* family you came from,
> but I personally don't know anyone who would say "wife beating" is
> a general part of Japanese culture or a custom ... This is just
> crazy, man. Or am I just ignorant of the "real Japan"?
Please remember that I was NOT the one who said it was a cultural
difference, it was an official of the Government of Japan, the land
of OUR ancestors, who said it.
Japanese culture isn't just saying
'itadakimasu' and 'gochisosama' before and after eating, eating
osechi ryori at New Year's, ohaka mairi, putting up the dolls for
Girl's Day, hanging out the carp streamers for Boy's Day, attending
memorial services, etc. There are a lot of other things about
Japanese culture that many of our parents, grandparents perhaps
chose not teach or tell us about.
There is a lot more to the "Real Japan" than what many of us are led to believe.
I think that perhaps many people may be viewing Japan through rose-colored glasses.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> It's pretty sad to me that he represents Japan. I would guess,
> though, that if this incident happened in Japan, wouldn't there be
> some consequences? However, I can see Americans buying into
> this "cultural" argument (due to their stereotypes of Asian
> cultures) more than Japanese people.
Yes, some people in America still buy into the stereotypes of Asian women.
As a matter of fact, one of my American friends was surprised when a "housewife"
from Japan asked President Clinton during a satellite interview whether his family
had forgiven him for the extramarital affair he had. My friend was
surprised by her question because he thought that women in Japan just
accept their husbands having lovers and don't question it.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> There is a lot more to the "Real Japan" than what many of us are led to believe.
> I think that perhaps many people may be viewing Japan through rose-colored glasses.
In any culture there are certain practices, ideals and values people choose
to pass on, and they are always the positive ones. However, I think Japan,
like any other culture, has its dark side they are not proud of: domestic violence,
bribery, child abuse, etc., all the ills that other societies and cultures have
exist in Japan too. I think that (general statement) that we often tend
to think only of the cherry blossoms, beautiful scenery, food and cultural
artifacts as being the ONLY Japan -- it's what we would like to ideally
stand for as our cultural heritage.
When I saw the original broadcast of the "20th Century with Walter Cronkite"
television program about the Rape of Nanking -- back when many of you weren't born yet --
I cried and was horrified. I kept saying, "No, we're (meaning Japanese) not like that,
we wouldn't do that ..." and yet before my eyes I saw the Japanese soldiers on film
shooting and bayonetting civilians and pushing them into this huge pit -- then using
bulldozers to bury the people alive. I couldn't believe that Japanese
people were capable of such brutality. I realized then that Japan, like
the U.S. or any other country has its dark side.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> There is a lot more to the "Real Japan" than what many of us are led to believe.
> I think that perhaps many people may be viewing Japan through rose-colored glasses.
For me, it was perhaps dark sunglasses ...
My experience has been very much the opposite, and I heard
more "negative" said about Japan/Asia and Japanese/Asian people
when I was growing up than anything ever positive. So I grow
very weary of all this negativity. Many JAs hate being
associated with anything connected to Japan or Japanese
nationals. It's kind of a love-hate thing. I fall somewhere
in between, having an Issei mom who luckily kept some balanced
perspective on these Japan things. (My Nisei dad, though,
often made negative comments about Japanese nationals.)
You have to realize that I grew up in the American Midwest, and
around the era of the declining American auto industry where
"Japan bashing" was a popular hobby -- both in real life and
in the TV news media -- and Japan provided a popular scapegoat
and target for hate. (Remember Vincent Chin.) I knew few
Japanese people (outside of my JA relatives), and most of the
people talking about Japan were non-Japanese people. Many
who only knew the country from their wartime experiences
or the stereotypes. So after a while you actually start
believing all racism and prejudice -- that Japanese are quite
an evil and immoral, and of course, inscrutable and mysterious
race of people attributed to some cultural aspect, and intent
on being copycats of Americans.
The American TV media also likes to pick up quickly on anything
strange or negative in the context of Japan and Japanese.
So, my Japanese vision was rather tinted with very dark-colored
glasses where one always sees everything "dark" about Japan and
never the light. I don't think I'm the only Japanese American
who has had this experience.
So, I know very well that Japan isn't the perfect country, and
actually surprised when I hear anything positive. So for me,
it's about time someone said something remotely good about Japan --
or at least to say Japanese people have the same human diversity of
all other societies. (I hate it when people say Japan is a
homogeneous society.) Maybe similarly, Japanese in Japan
have misconceptions about the U.S. -- in both negative and
positive ways. There's need for understanding everywhere.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> My experience has been very much the opposite, and I heard
> more "negative" said about Japan/Asia and Japanese/Asian people
> when I was growing up than anything ever positive. So I grow
> very weary of all this negativity. Many JAs hate being
> associated with anything connected to Japan or Japanese
> nationals. It's kind of a love-hate thing.
Wow, this is the first I've heard of anyone sharing my experience. I had
dark sunglasses as well. My issei mother shared very little with us and
didn't try to teach us the language. She was in love with being American
and yet rebuked me for resenting my Japanese half. All the while no real
explanations were forthcoming ... secretive. I grew up uncertain and
suspicious. Life was full of contradictions.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> My experience has been very much the opposite, and I heard
> more "negative" said about Japan/Asia and Japanese/Asian people
> when I was growing up than anything ever positive. So I grow
> very weary of all this negativity. Many JAs hate being
> associated with anything connected to Japan or Japanese
> nationals. It's kind of a love-hate thing.
I think that many, if not all, of us grew up in the States hearing
negative things about Japan (some more than others).
Even though it might have hurt our ears to hear the Japanese gov't
official say it was a "cultural difference," perhaps he just may
have been telling the truth, that it actually was a difference
in the way domestic matters are resolved in Japan? That was
the way it was reported in the newspapers here in Japan.
I hope you really realize how imperfect Japan (the land of OUR
ancestors) actually is when you said "So, I know very well that
Japan isn't a perfect country ..."
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> Many JAs hate being associated with anything connected to Japan
> Japanese nationals.
I used to be like that, even though I didn't grow up in a time
when "Japan-bashing" existed.
> The American TV media also likes to pick up quickly on anything
> strange or negative in the context of Japan and Japanese.
Japanese TV is also picking up on strange things about Japan and Japanese.
This is copied from another list:
Recently there's this quite interesting and hilarious Japanese TV
program called "Kokoga hen dayo, Nihonjin". It features non-Japanese
("Gaijin" wo tsukauto yabai yo! ^^;) residents fluent in Japanese
debating with the program's guests (mostly Japanese) about the
pecularities of Japanese society & culture, and everyday life in Japan.
> So, my Japanese vision was rather tinted with very dark-colored
> glasses where one always sees everything "dark" about Japan and
> never the light. I don't think I'm the only Japanese American
> who has had this experience.
I know! Even on the SATs! On the "Verbal" section of a practice SAT I took
last week, there was a passage that asked about Japan, in terms of the
"traditional" image. I know the stereotype and I got all the answers right,
but still! So sad that this is the reality! We need to get some communication
going between the two countries!
> It's about time someone said something remotely good
> about Japan -- or at least to say Japanese people have
> the same human diversity of all other societies.
> (I hate it when people say Japan is a homogeneous society.)
> Maybe similarly, Japanese in Japan have misconceptions about
> the U.S. -- in both negative and positive ways.
Many of my Japanese friends who have never been abroad
think N.Y.C. and the U.S. are just scary and you can get shot
at often, everything American is just too cool to be true,
and everything is cheap, (especially all the brand goods "Gucci"
and so on), GAP is awsome, Americans kiss in public all the time
... stuff like that.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
I don't think that wife beating is that new.
I remember many, many years ago when I was in the States reading a
news article saying that Sato Eisaku (Prime Minister of Japan at
that time) said in an interview that he used to beat his wife on
occasion. Seems like an occupational hazard of the spouses of Japanese bureaucrats.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> I don't think that wife beating is that new.
It isn't new -- that's the problem. Those Japanese men are
stuck in the Meiji era and have yet to realize that kind of
behaviour is not so acceptable anymore. The fact that the
Japanese Ambassador to Canada waived his consul's diplomatic immunity
and allowed the arrest to occur suggests that Japan at least
wants to project a "tatemae" (there is that word again) of
modern thinking. How did women in Japan react to this story?
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
>> I don't think that wife beating is that new.
>
> It isn't new -- that's the problem. Those Japanese men are
> stuck in the Meiji era and have yet to realize that kind of
> behaviour is not so acceptable anymore. The fact that the
> Japanese Ambassador to Canada waived his consul's diplomatic
> immunity and allowed the arrest to occur suggests that Japan at
> least wants to project a "tatemae" (there is that word again) of
> modern thinking. How did women in Japan react to this story?
I think those men are probably stuck way further back than the
Meiji era.
Not knowing too much about the case, "tatemae" is a good possibility.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the Japanese weekly magazines write up
something on this topic in the next several weeks.
One woman said she thought the man deserved whatever punishment
that the Canadians authorities deemed necessary, and that more
men than one thinks have this mentality once they are married.
Several women here have mentioned that their fathers used to beat
their mothers on occasion or that they were told that by one of
their parents that their grandfather used to be violent with
their grandmother ... interesting!
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
The wife-beating incident by this Japanese diplomat was news to me.
My first reaction was,
"Good, now it can be discussed more openly in Japan." Yes, domestic
violence is present worldwide and incidence rates vary from one
country/culture to another. I think I read that in Japan the incidence
rate is somewhat high, but there exists a national denial process
so hard figures are only guesswork at best. Perhaps this celebrated
case could be a vehicle to bring this issue out of the closet in Japan.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> Even though it might have hurt our ears to hear the Japanese gov't
> official say it was a "cultural difference," perhaps he just may
> have been telling the truth, that it actually was a difference
> in the way domestic matters are resolved in Japan? That was
> was the way it was reported in the newspapers here in Japan.
I have faith that (Japanese) people are smart enough to know that is NOT
how domestic matters are resolved -- there are no "cultural" excuses
for stupidity (or ignorance).
> I hope you really realize how imperfect Japan (the land of OUR
> ancestors) actually is when you said "So, I know very well that
> Japan isn't a perfect country ..."
This story hasn't really taught me anything new about Japan
(the land of my ancestors). If Japan were a perfect country,
I'm sure my ancestors would have never immigrated to the U.S.
Yes, I know about sexism and racism in
Japan. I know about corruption in the government and in
business practices. Yes, I know there are economic problems in
Japan. I know about Japan's wartime atrocities and the Nanking
Massacre. I know there are murderers, rapists, drug addicts,
alcholics, and religious fanatics in Japan too, homeless people.
But something is missing -- it's the positive things or the wisdom.
Similar themes exist in the U.S. domestic news. Recently I've stopped
watching the news because it doesn't do anything for me to hear about
another murder. I'm just voicing my frustration from being bombarded
with negative news and the lack of solutions or deeper understanding.
So where do we go from here? There are things I hope for ...
I hope maybe that this (jerk)
Japanese consul rediscovers love for his wife, and maybe they
can together learn to resolve their marital problems without
resorting to physical violence. Maybe people in similar
situations can can come out and tell how they overcame such
difficulties. I guess, solutions are really what I crave to
see more of ...
Sometimes to me darkness is only the absence of light -- so one
needs to see the light (excuse the expression). I once read a Native
American saying, "In order to become beautiful,
one needs to fill one's self with beauty."
And since I am "American", I can almost as easily just say that
I don't identify with being Japanese, so who cares anyway?
But being Japanese American, there is still a connection to
Japan thru the influences of my family and friends of Japanese
ancestry.
My view is something like this: if you were sent to the internment camps,
and only could take two suitcases of stuff -- what would you carry with you about Japan?
What would you tell your future children about their Japanese ancestry?
The thoughts I would carry are those that have inspired me,
comforted me, and have given me strength. I think that is
what parents do, which I think is wonderful! (Yes, it is a
self-esteem building sort of thing, and minority people really
need it a lot to face the effects of racism around them.)
It may sound like I'm avoiding the "negative", but I'm
painfully aware of it in the reality around me.
I feel Japan has a great deal of traditional beauty and
wisdom. I just hope that this doesn't get lost in today's
very fast-paced urban and Westernized environment ... or maybe
there's a greater need for it to stay balanced.
Did that make sense? Now I'll take off my sunglasses
and let all the light in ... :-)
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> I feel Japan has a great deal of traditional beauty and
> wisdom. I just hope that this doesn't get lost in today's
> very fast-paced urban and Westernized environment ...
> maybe there's a greater need for it to stay balanced.
I agree and the key here is "balance". In my life, I have run the full gamut:
Growing up with racism, I resented being Nikkei. After my mother passed away,
I lived in Japan and tried to embrace it with "rose-colored glasses" and
was instead depressed and partly horrified at the realities I saw.
Then I returned to the States and didn't pursue any more contact or knowledge
about Japan. I tried to just stay neutral ... an American is an American,
right? Now I am older, with children who want to learn Japanese, and
realize that a balance of perspective is in order. I like the idea of
"listening to the beauty" while at the same time recognize that no
society that I know of is perfect.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
> I feel Japan has a great deal of traditional beauty and
> wisdom. I just hope that this doesn't get lost in today's
> very fast-paced urban and Westernized environment ...
> maybe there's a greater need for it to stay balanced.
Re: your comment about Japan and the traditional beauty and wisdom -- "maybe
there's a greater need for it to stay balanced" -- I would
take out the "maybe." The key word is "balanced" and I hope the people
are wise enough not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
When visiting Japan, I love to go to the larger cities like Tokyo and
watch people. On the other hand, we always make sure we go to the smaller
communities and towns (Akizuki in Fukuoka, Takayama, etc.) and enjoy the
beauty of nature and the "small town folks." By the way, one of the
most peaceful and beautiful towns we've visited was Shirokawa-go --
I felt we had moved back in time.
I also appreciate the fact that even in Tokyo they didn't close down the
small towns that make up the larger metropolis and build mega malls. When
we catch the subway and get off at any stop one can always find the small
town flavor tucked back away from the station and find small shops, see
the school kids walking to school and people going about their everyday
tasks. So maybe there is a balance in Japan but it's hidden away from
those of us who go there as tourists.
Subject: Re: Real Japan?
I just heard on the news that the Consul-General in Vancouver has been
called back to Japan. He pled guilty to beating his wife. He was given
an absolute discharge, meaning he receives no criminal record. A mere
slap on the wrist. Given his attitude that beating his wife is
justifiable as a "cultural difference" and not a big deal,
it sends a very negative message, if you ask me.
Last updated 09 March 1999