|
*** Log file opened: 8/24/97 7:08:19 PM
Stardancer- ok SevenEagle- about 1 minute and we start? Stardancer- now SevenEagle- some one wake the Fires up, hehehe QuietWaters- Before we get started on the answers to the questions included in this week's lesson and discussion, I'd like to say a few things. AngelWings is on IRC QuietWaters- First, thanks for being here. :) QuietWaters- Second, I'll type as fast as I can. :) just_jersey- :) QuietWaters- This week's lesson was about Wicca & Shamanism. It talks about altered states of consciousness or awareness shifts. QuietWaters- Before talking about those things perhaps we should look into reality or our perception of reality. QuietWaters- There are probably tons of theories out there regarding what reality is...ranging from "what you see is proof of what is" to "it's all an illusion." I'm not going to get into that. QuietWaters- In my 38 years on the planet I've seen things I have no explanation for and had difficulty believing they were real. QuietWaters- I've also NOT seen things when I knew they were there... QuietWaters- (if you've ever rummaged around for something you KNEW you put in a particular spot, couldn't find it, then came back a few minutes later to find it there, you'll know what I mean) QuietWaters- This is my own personal opinion -- I've come to the conclusion that the more possibilities you are willing to believe in as possibilities, the more expanded your reality becomes. QuietWaters- I've talked with several people this past week or two who do not think what they experience during visualization or meditation is "real." QuietWaters- There have been questions about "proof" of the existence of God/dess, spirit guides, etc. QuietWaters- Is thought a reality? Do feelings really exist? QuietWaters- My answer (just mine) is this: QuietWaters- I cannot see the air I breathe, yet I know it is there. QuietWaters- I cannot see love, yet I know it exists. QuietWaters- My kids cannot see what I call my "Mom Radar" but you can be darn sure they know it's a reality in their lives. g- Stardancer- :) QuietWaters- Reality, it seems to me, is mostly a matter of perception. QuietWaters- Change your perception, you change your reality. QuietWaters- I'll end with some questions. Those of you who have chatted with me or are reading my words now have seen what you think of as me, QuietWaters. QuietWaters- What proof do you have I am real and who I say I am? QuietWaters- Gut instinct? A feeling? You just *know*? QuietWaters- If you've been on the chat circuit for a while you know how to "read" another person's tone or inflection QuietWaters- (excitement, sadness, anger, sarcasm, joking, etc) QuietWaters- You create these perceptions of tone in your mind in the same way you would when reading dialogue in a novel. QuietWaters- Part may be influenced by your own mood at the time. QuietWaters- However, it is your perception. QuietWaters- Does it make it more or less real because it is based on what your mind has conjured up as a voice or tone? QuietWaters- If you experience something through visualization or meditation, is what you've learned or experienced any less real because it too place in your mind? QuietWaters- Just something to think about... QuietWaters- I'll open it up to discussion...and/or answering the questions with the lesson. :) AngelWings- gee sounds like some conversations I've been having with y'all Ravingloon has a comment as well QuietWaters- Go ahead, Eagle QuietWaters- Before you comment, RL...let me answer AW's comment. This was kind of the direction the lesson was going when I wrote it, AW, but you and some other's I've spoken with kind of influenced it. QuietWaters- Ravingloon...you had a comment? Ravingloon- you had mentioned wether or not experiencing things in you mind could be considered "real" QuietWaters- yes.. Ravingloon- I'm not exactly sure how, but I have learned to do things (sword fighting, for example) completely in my mind, and then been able to perform the action with out any problem Ravingloon- even with having no previous experience what so ever QuietWaters- I've had some similar experiences, RL...although not on a very grand scale. :) QuietWaters- Anyone else care to comment? onmyown will save them s- QuietWaters- Ok...did anyone answer the questions with the lesson? QuietWaters- The first is: What is an altered state of consciousness? SevenEagle- I can attempt one statement about this QuietWaters- Go ahead, Eagle... SevenEagle- altered consciousness for me was unlearning all the untruths in school and from society SevenEagle- since I walk in what may be considered a altered state all the time, for me it is not an altered state QuietWaters- :) Well put, Eagle SevenEagle- just a state of openness Stardancer- to me, it can be as simple as a meditation, leaving behind everyday life, going to a peaceful place and exploring...either myself or other things. AngelWings- I think it would be apropos for those who have achieved altered states, such as Seven, to define what it is QuietWaters- AW...what would be your definition of an altered state? onmyown would comment... QuietWaters- Ok, omo... onmyown- Since it is apparent few have read the content of the lesson, I'll quote a few prtions of it...... onmyown- In the "What is Wicca" lesson there was a quote from Starhawk's book The Spiral Dance in which she said Wicca is "closer in spirit to Native American Traditions or Arctic shamanism." Defining shamanism is almost as difficult as defining Wicca. onmyown- "Shamanism is a worldwide practice in which the spiritual interrelationship of the earth with otherworlds forms an interwoven fabric of physical and psychic being, affecting all forms of life, both seen and unseen. onmyown- Wiccans use chanting, meditation, concentration, visualization, music, dance, invocation, and ritual drama to achieve a state of ecstasy -- awareness shifts -- alternate states of consciousness -- magic. onmyown- So to answer the question: What is an altered state of consciusness........ onmyown- "QuietWaters- Change your perception, you change your reality." onmyown- "If you experience something through visualization or meditation, is what you've learned or experienced any less real because it took place in your mind?" onmyown- Quite a good point......... onmyown- Any state that transcends our 'mundane' day-to-day state, or sense of reality. Typically I experience heightened perceptions, and may (or may not) have a sense of 'inner peace' or at least a dis-association with more superficial concerns while in that state. onmyown- Furthermore, it might be considered that the Dream state is indeed an altered state of consciousness since it is possible, with practice and some effort, to influence the content of dream activity. onmyown- By the same token, what SevenEagle stated is equally valid; that rejection of 'learned social constructs' and acceptance of a new existence could well be considered an 'altered state.' Stardancer- yep QuietWaters- All very good points, omo. SevenEagle- ok, anyone else that would like to comment on the first question??? QuietWaters- If omo is finished, would anyone else like to comment? SevenEagle: maybe I through the class off a bit, sorry SevenEagle: gotta do what you feel QuietWaters- Let's try this....is anyone else even here?? lol Stardancer is SevenEagle is onmyown is Stardancer- and I read the lesson SevenEagle- roll call Sax- May beginners comment? SevenEagle- hehehe Ravingloon is SevenEagle- yes Sax just_jersey- here :) onmyown- of course Sax! QuietWaters- Please, Sax.. _Lisa_- im here _Lisa_- sorta AngelWings- back Sax- very well. I live in two realities, one i the perceptual, that which I apprehend Sax- the other is the conceptual, that which I cannot apprehend, and of which I must be informed Sax- If we walk in a graden Sax- and you trell me Sax- there is a lovely pink flower Sax- If you know me, there is no pink for me, never wasm,, never will be Sax- my eye does not contain receptor Sax- i see light blue or gray Sax- so, my perception is limited in certain ways Sax- but I believe what you tell me Sax- when you see the lovely pink flower Sax- that is all QuietWaters- Interesting take on it, Sax. Thank you. :) onmyown- so your 'conceptual' world, is what you are informed of? Sax- yes onmyown- and by virtue of that information you have some perception? Sax- a vicarious one perhaps onmyown- although your own, not the same as others.... Sax- yes onmyown- in your conceptual world, do you "create" a vicarious or other image of what is described? QuietWaters- Out of curiosity, Sax...do you take the idea of pink and form some concept of your own? QuietWaters- Never mind...what omo said.. Sax- no, I do not try to form a concept of pink Sax- I am satisified it is there, and I do not see it onmyown- To quote once more from the lesson: onmyown- The one thing all definitions I've come across do have in common is this: the shaman's knowledge, power, or magic, is achieved through awareness shifts -- alternate states of consciousness. onmyown- And this is wherein the questions lies..... onmyown- what IS an alternate state of consciousness? onmyown- Be it those of the shaman or the working of magic. SevenEagle- I guess it is the awareness of different frenquincies, spirit world and others AngelWings: lol QuietWaters- jj, Lisa, merina, mh, RF....any comments on that? Ravingloon- I do SevenEagle- go ahead RL Ravingloon- one thing I feel that we have to know first, is what a non-altered state of consciousness is QuietWaters- Instead of me moderating this, let's just open it up to discussion. Go ahead, RL. Ravingloon- one person's altered state could be another's "regular" one SevenEagle- some may say that an earth plane state is a non altered state, but so much can be seen on the earth plane that many either don't see, or are too busy to see too SevenEagle- I agree RL Stardancer- yep AngelWings- or some can't see at all onmyown- ......or are too busy to see QuietWaters- What do you consider a non-altered state of consciousness, RL? QuietWaters- Very true, RL...so how would you tell the difference (for yourself)? AngelWings- or just do not have the tools to see omo Ravingloon- my non-altered state is the one I spend the most time in, the only things I see or feel are those that require no effort to notice QuietWaters- All right...let's try this QuietWaters- It is an exercise in sensing group energy...I don't know how it will go online, but it's worth a shot. Stardancer- ok QuietWaters- Right now...as you're sitting there, be aware of the energy level in this group. Ravingloon wonders if he should turn off his music for this onmyown is *quite* aware of it QuietWaters- Do you feel alert? Aware? Excited? Calm or anxious? Tense, or relaxed? QuietWaters- Just be aware of what you're feeling right now... QuietWaters- Think of energy traveling up and down your spine. QuietWaters- Now sit up, as erect as you can without straining. QuietWaters- Notice a change in the energy. QuietWaters- Do you feel more alert? More aware? QuietWaters- Your breath moves energy in and out of your body. QuietWaters- It wakens your body's center. So take a deep breath. QuietWaters- Breathe deep...breathe all the way down. QuietWaters- Breathe from your diaphragm...from your belly... QuietWaters- Your stomach should move in and out as you breathe. QuietWaters- As you breathe in and out, feel yourself relaxing... QuietWaters- ..recharging.... QuietWaters- Have you noticed a change in the energy? QuietWaters- Now I want you to visualize yourself reaching out and taking hands...linking us all together. QuietWaters- As you visualize that, feel the energy move around the link...the circle. QuietWaters- It may feel like a subtle tingling sensation, or a low heat, or even cold. QuietWaters- Each feels it differently. QuietWaters- Now take a deep breath, and suck in the energy as if you were sucking it into a straw. QuietWaters- Feel it travel down your spine and flow into the earth...and relax. QuietWaters- What...if anything...did you feel? Just jump in and answer. Stardancer- great energy, chill bumps onmyown- sparks, fluid, shifting images _Lisa_- nothing really.. just was relaxing. Ravingloon- tingling, energy flowing through me QuietWaters- I felt it as a kind of tingling heat..and will need to ground some more, I think...lol. just_jersey- tingling ...lots of energy AngelWings- hmmm I got the energy in my left hand, it's very red and tingly now QuietWaters- Lisa...did the relaxation make you feel better or the same or worse? SevenEagle just sits in the "God" presence, and flows energy out of his hands into the group, intermixing with the others _Lisa_- better mh felt the connection and the tingling up and down her arms Ravingloon- the energy came in through my left had and out my right SevenEagle- AW some flow from there left hand and returns in the right, not a "rule" but how it is for some AngelWings- the right is getting it now as well, though not as intensely Ravingloon- and my left hand aches a little, like someone is squeezing it SevenEagle- alot of the time when you feel disconfort, it is "one" way that spirit is saying that some "type" of healing is taken place SevenEagle- and stay connected until the disconfort disapates QuietWaters- In my opinion, what you all just felt was an altered state of consciousness. QuietWaters- Lisa...you felt relaxation which you said made you feel better. You altered your state. QuietWaters- The second question was: Why are these awareness shifts/altered states of consciousness important in rituals or magic? SevenEagle- alot of it has to do with focus for the ritual SevenEagle- and being open Stardancer- yep QuietWaters- Anyone else want to answer? onmyown will present some thoughts.... Stardancer- I have to alter my consciousness to truly concentrate on the ritual I am about to perform QuietWaters- Go for it, omo. onmyown- Once again quoting from the lesson: onmyown- I hear you asking, "What does this have to do with Wicca??" Wicca uses onmyown- shamanic techniques. Wiccans use chanting, meditation, concentration, onmyown- visualization, music, dance, invocation, and ritual drama to achieve a state of onmyown- ecstasy -- awareness shifts -- alternate states of consciousness -- magic. onmyown- Effective ritual will enable you to slip into such states, to commune and onmyown- communicate with the God/dess, to move natural energies in order to effect onmyown- needed change. onmyown- By the same token that these states allow us to transcend our 'normal' state of mind, our efforts of ritual and magic are fundamentally an attempt to influence the 'flow' of events in our lives. In that sense we are transcending the sphere of influence the we exist in during our daily life. In order to have the most profound influence in these activities, a heightened mental and emotional state allows more direct contact and communication with those energy flows we seek to 'steer' onmyown- through our actions of ritual and magic. Stardancer- and usually leaves you totally drained. QuietWaters- yup SevenEagle- and sometimes totally charged too hehehe QuietWaters- yup, too...lol onmyown- not always, i am often refreshed QuietWaters- Gotta watch out for that totally charged, though...can backfire...lol. SevenEagle- naaaaaaaa, move a couple of mountains just_jersey- :) Stardancer- when doing a healing I am usually tired, but other things I am energized AngelWings- pesky moutains in the way =) QuietWaters- lol...and then feel irritable because not properly grounded. SevenEagle- lessons all QuietWaters- ---has learned that lesson the hard way. Stardancer- yep Stardancer- hahaha onmyown- passing energy from within is a draining experience; because it is not an exchange, it is a giving of oneself onmyown- and we must 'recharge' Stardancer- yep QuietWaters- Third question: Name other ways besides those given in the lesson in which an altered state of consciousness can be achieved. SevenEagle- but too, it is not good to "keep" your energy, because it will stagnate, better to flow with the universal SevenEagle- opps, lol QuietWaters- No..go ahead, Eagle... SevenEagle- that was all onmyown- well, i'd remark on that..... onmyown- energy is not a static thing QuietWaters- Ok, omo onmyown- we have our own, but it flows from without to within SevenEagle- yes, it was the flow I mentioned, or stated onmyown- we must (and in this sense i agree with SevenEagle) exchange that energy onmyown- not 'hold' or attempt to capture it end- Stardancer- meditation, imagination and guess what??? smiling....did you ever notice that if you make a conscious effort to smile at everyone you see, the difference it can make? alters states! onmyown- even online Star S- just_jersey- so true, Star! Stardancer- :) ye Stardancer- p onmyown- Numerous relaxation techniques, whether they be practiced ones such as self-hypnosis, or something as simple as walking in the woods or listening to the sound of a stream or river can induce our projection into our higher consciousness. QuietWaters- lol...yes, Star... :) Ravingloon- music, especially live performances onmyown- Although I don't personally endorse the use of (illegal) mild pyschotropic drugs such as marijuana, their induction of an altered state is self evident. onmyown- Numerous herbal tinctures and infusions are known to have similar effects. For instance hypericum perforatum (aka St. Johnswort) is prescribed in some 20 million doses annually in Germany specifically and widely used in western Europe as a clinical treatment as an anti-depressive regimen. onmyown- Certainly it's effect is such to cause an alteration of the 'normal' state of mind for those who are undergoing such treatment. AngelWings- funny you should say that omo, Satan's wanting to grow mushrooms for just that purpose Stardancer- yeah, RL, if Pink Floyd can't alter your state of mind, not much can :) onmyown- Such activity that is basically not a conscious act such as 'day-dreaming' is as much an entering into an altered state as those more purposeful methods we employ. Some writers have found moments of inspiration that allowed them to produce superb works; an experience where the words "seem to flow by themselves." Like as not that is an experience of transcenscion. Ravingloon- both the performing and listeng to of music onmyown- In short, simply sitting in the sunlight and 'letting go' can be as profound a means to reach our higher plane as any rite or practiced action. Stardancer- agree Ravingloon still remembers the incredible amount of energy he felt at the Lilith Fair QuietWaters- yup QuietWaters- I suppose that about wraps things up...unless someone else would like to comment or ask a question? QuietWaters- The next class will be next Sunday at 12pm. Stardancer- ok QuietWaters- Lesson will be posted soon. QuietWaters- Thanks for participating. :) SevenEagle- thanks for the hard work and sharing Ravingloon- thanks for letting us *** Log file closed: 8/24/97 8:52:48 PM |