I am adding different interviews from wherever I can find them whenever I can...
THE VERVE PIPE INTERVIEW
A.J. DUNNING -- LEAD GUITAR
DONNY BROWN -- DRUMS
Interview by Robin Brooks
Photographs by Jeff Navarro
For this first issue of Omnibus, we couldn't have landed a more fitting interview
than with members of The Verve Pipe. This group personifies the spirit of
Omnibus by "making it" to their major label signing with RCA after years on the
"local" college scene where they developed a following of very loyal fans. Their
RCA release, Villains casted the national spotlight from to this group of five
guys from Michigan. Omnibus interviewer Robin Brooks caught two of the
Verve Pipe's members, guitarist A.J. Dunning and percussionist Donny Brown
before their show in Bloomington, Indiana to get the low-down on how these
midwestern boys on their own are making it to the top while hanging on to the
past.
robin: How did the idea to do the album Villains come about?
donny: We'd been trying to get an album out forever, and Brian had been
writing a ton, and things were caught up in the hubbub of trying to get signed
and the whole shot...we had toured for forever and we would send demos of
some of the songs on Villains to try and get a deal. We probably had seven
labels come out to see us. RCA was the most adamant, the first to offer us a
deal, and then more people came to offer us deals. Pop Smear was released at
the end of '93, and Villains came out in '96...it took a long time to get to Villains.
robin: When Pop Smear came out did you think you were ready for national
success?
a.j.: We thought we were ready, but in all reality I don't think we were. We were
definitely a different band then. The biggest change that the band has gone
through [between Pop Smear and Villains] is that we've really streamlined a lot
of things. I think Pop Smear was one of those records where you kind of get all
of the bullshit and the tricks out of your system, so then the next record you
can just concentrate on making it.
robin: When you went in to the studio to record Villains, was the material
pretty much intact...or did it get shaped a lot through Jerry Harrison?
a.j.: Some of the stuff got shaped, and some of it didn't. But one of the nice
things about working with Jerry is that...this is gonna sound like a totally
unhumble statement, but I think everybody in this band believes that he had a
lot to work with in terms of the way that the arrangements were structured.
We're real particular about arrangements. Then, on the other hand, Jerry
would say, "You know, this song needs a bridge," or "This section doesn't
work here." It was very collaborative in that respect, depending on the song.
robin: This latest release, while nothing like a sequel to Pop Smear, showed
some direct relationships. The song "Myself," from Villains, for example,
sounds like a souped-up version of something from the previous album.....
donny: Yeah, like it could have been on Pop Smear. There are some songs like
that. "Reverend Girl" is like that. "Veneer" could have been on Pop Smear.
robin: So there is some carry-over there...
donny: Yeah, there definitely is...it's just within us. Like I said,
it was over two years between albums. A band can go
through a hell of a lot in two years! It took us forever to get
back in the groove of being in the studio, and in the interim
we had toured a BOATLOAD.
robin: Which you will continue to do, right?
donny: It kinda became our lifestyle. We used to live out of hotel rooms, now
we live on a bus...that's what it's about now.
robin: What kind of original, unsigned band scene did you come from?
a.j.: One of the nice things about where we're from [East Lansing, MI] is that,
first of all, there's a lot of college towns all around the area and East Lansing is
fairly centralized, to where you can drive an hour practically in any direction
and work. So you can do two weeks in and around Michigan in the different
clubs and not play the same place. One of the other nice things about
Michigan and particularly East Lansing, is that the bands that are from there
are very supportive of one another. Because of that the power that each band
has can tend to transcend...it's not a clique-ish thing at all. All of that makes it a
great place to be from.
robin: Could you have put out an album like Villains without all of the fan
support and the scene in general?
a.j.: No. Anybody that will tell you that they can do it without the fans is wrong.
That's the reason any band exists. One of the reasons I have a hard time with
people talking about "selling out" is primarily that if you're a musician you
want to be HEARD. So if you wanna have this exclusive little club of 80 people
that love to see the band and no one else can have them....fine. You can have
that. To me, it's about spreading it around.
robin: Given the success you're now seeing, how experimental are you, have
you been, or will you be?
donny: I think we'll be more experimental with the next album....
a.j.: I think so too. One of the basic premises of this record was to try to keep it
as live as possible. If you listen to Pop Smear and Villains back-to-back, the
biggest difference is in the amount of overdubs. And we wanted Villains to be
a product such that when you listen to the record, and then you come out and
see the band, hopefully, seeing the band live is a bit more energetic, a bit more
dynamic, but still with all the pieces there....as opposed to having some sort of
nonsensical part that's kind of in the background and may or may not be cool,
something you can't replicate live.
donny: Something I'm glad about is that our band approaches the idea of
making an album and recording music much differently than we do when we
get on stage. There are things that we want there, and things that have to be
there to define the song to us and our presentation to people. Anything other
than that makes it a free-for-all.
robin: Was Jerry Harrison in tune with that?
donny: Honestly, it took a while for him to get used to us. When we first began
working with him in pre-production, it was kinda like, "Try this! Try that! Try
this!" And he was really surprised, because we would say, "OK, we'll play it
this way," and he wasn't used to working with bands who could understand
where he was coming from and be able to play it for him. We ended up going
through our pre-production so quickly...we had like ten days scheduled, and
we did it in only six, doing it in short sessions. So Jerry said, "OK, let's go
make the album!" So we had a couple days off. And then when we got in the
studio, Jerry realized that everybody was gonna be able to perform when the
light went on. And as time went on, Jerry kind of brought his little experimental
ways in, slight things like trying a little keyboard part here, or something else
here....the beginning of "Myself" is a trick that he just kind of employed on a
whim...he just fed Brian's vocals in the first chorus into an effects loop, and left
it on overnight. We came in the studio the next day, and it was still carrying
and sitting in this machine, and he just brought the fader up. That's what you
hear at the beginning of "Myself." When Jerry did that, we were like "Man,
"Myself really needs something and this is cool! I found it [the opening sound]
really tribal...it sounds like some African tribe or something to me. Those little
flourishes, Jerry playing with the keyboard sound, or saying to me, "Donny I
don't want you to play a crash cymbal there," those little things are the things
that we gradually got used to. robin: The whole album is just so thick with all
these different elements, and the way they're melded together....
donny: Pop Smear has too many. Too many elements. Just
everybody trying to get their little spot in there, myself
included.
a.j.: I think the biggest difference with Pop Smear is the fact
that it was recorded over such a long period of time...we
were working in a local studio in Grand Rapids, and in order for a band to put
out an album, to do it on an independent basis, it's money directly out of your
pocket. Unlike the label [RCA] , where you're given a substantial amount of
money, and you can see it through from start to completion. Because of that
there are some holes, in terms of the time, and I think the more time you spend
in the studio, the more your mood is liable to change as well. So that might
account for some of the bombast in the [Pop Smear].
donny: Yeah, too much time to think about it. Come back and say, "Well, let's
put this guitar over that," or "Let's make that a twelve-part harmony!"
a.j.: or "I've got more money this week," or "The studio's available this week,
should we go in?"
robin: How do you think your fans who have been with you through to this
point perceive you now?
a.j.: I think for the most part they're very proud. We have a very loyal fan base.
When we got signed, we took all those people who were originally on our
mailing list, and kind of separated those from the people that were going to be
added to it after the fact, and we turned them into VIP's. We've done things for
them like different signings and giveaways, that we do just for the VIP people.
robin: Have your goals changed now that you have a major-label release?
a.j.: No, I think that we're still on the same plane that we have always been.
donny: We've always had high goals, so...
a.j.: Yeah, we definitely have lofty aspirations for ourselves, but, you know, if
you never aspire to do anything, what's HABIT for?
robin: Is there something that you can point to that you want people to
understand about you through your music?
a.j.: Mmmmm....it's a good question....one thing that I hope that people get out
of our band --- I won't make any bones about it --- we don't have the largest
sense of camaraderie amongst us a lot of times, but what I would like people to
pull away from the band is that we love what we do, and hopefully somehow it
translates. I mean, if they see us enjoying ourselves, maybe it'll brush off.
donny: When I think about that, about leaving some kind of impression or
something, I think about how music affects me, and it doesn't matter if I
physically put on a disc and listen to it, to achieve some feeling of nostalgia or
otherwise....the best is when I'm surprised, and I turn the radio on and I hear
something that I haven't heard in forever. And it's a perfectly timed song.
That's what I long to be. That's what I long for our band to be....to someone. I
hope that someone is having an incredible moment in their life, and that
"Photograph" is playing while it's happening. And then when they're thinking
about that moment, that they hear "Photograph" and they get a feeling. I would
hope that we would write material that would lend itself to that.
robin: What you're talking about is the reason that I got into radio.
donny: Really? The drag about radio, the way it is now, it's so regimented that
it actually takes away from that idea....whereas college radio is awesome. At
Michigan State it's great. We were going to the college radio stations forever,
before we were signed, and we would go there and be the disc jockey for an
hour and a half, whatever we wanted, and talk about it, and say, "This is what I
love about this song...."
a.j.: Or show up with a demo and play that.
donny: Yeah, play it and explain how it came about and why it sounds like
crap, and give your excuses.
robin: Is there someone in particular that you would like to act as your
producer for future projects? Obviously the arrangements are yours, but....
a.j.: I've always been a big fan of Brendan O'Brien's. He's done work like
Soundgarden's Superunknown, he produced stuff for the Stone Temple
Pilots, Black Crowes, And King's X. Brendan O'Brien's always been kind of a
favorite of mine because of the sound he gets out of albums. I don't know
what the guy is like to work with...I hear he's very laid back....kind of a
hands-off guy, which is good for this band. I don't know, anybody with a keen
ear....I'd love to work with Phil Ramone, or George Martin. I'd love to work with
Ted Templeman.
robin: Is there anything that has really surprised you guys about yourselves
and the situation you're in now?
a.j.: Ummm...one of the weirdest feelings that happens with me personally is a
sense of being overwhelmed. To turn on MTV and see yourself on 120 Minutes
or see the video being played...I've always been a little hesitant to get too close
to it. I don't want to get too happy about it, or think that it's "done" ---to me
that's the kiss of death. It's really easy to get swept up and start believing a lot
of the shit that people tell you sometimes. I don't ever want us to come to that.
It doesn't matter if I'm playing in an R & B band four nights a week in some
shithole, or I'm selling out stadiums. Probably the biggest difference is that
we're getting people out to markets that we've never been in before...and to
see the enthusiasm of the crowds... that's what it's turning into.
robin: Touring with SEMISONIC and 3 lb. THRILL must be
good for you guys. a.j.: It's awesome for us.
donny: We love it.
a.j.: Both of those bands are fantastic, the nicest guys in
the world. This tour's gonna end, and I think a lot of us in
this band are gonna be saddened by it. We've made some
good friends with these people, and the respect that floats
around between the three bands is remarkable. It's such a
rare thing. There's none of that ego thing going on here...trying to show up
somebody. Not to say that there isn't any competition, I mean, we have to
follow two awesome bands, and that's definitely a push, it makes you wanna
work that much harder. It's been a great thing.
robin: Did you all have a lot of playing experience before you got together?
donny: A.J. and I met a long time ago playing with a band that I eventually quit.
So I had known A.J. and I was the one that brought him into the band. Doug
Corella, the keyboardist/percussionist, and I met while at a jazz festival, when I
was playing in Michigan State's Jazz Band, and Doug was with Central
Michigan University's Percussionist Ensemble. Brian and I met while we were
in two competing bands in East Lansing/Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo, and we
started doing shows together. One summer we were painting a chicken shack,
that's what we were doing to make a living, and he started playing these
songs. I played him some stuff that I was working on, and they seemed to
sound good together. Then when we would do these shows together that
would end up happening. We realized that what Brian had was a GREAT lead
singer persona and voice, and Brad was a rock-solid bass player. Those were
some things that we lacked in my band, and we just decided that we would
make a stronger unit if we broke the two bands up and formed one band.
That's how it happened.
a.j.: I was in Cincinnati playing in an R & B band, playing old Motown stuff, four
nights a week, doing a blues gig, and teaching. With the exception of just a
straight-up jazz gig, I've been in just about any kind of band you could ever
imagine....country to big hair to Top 40 to basic R & B.
robin: As a group, do you know right away when something's good or bad?
a.j.: I would say so usually....there's a saying that if you have to work too hard
at it, it's probably not worth seeing through, in terms of the music. You equate
that with life and it's just a total opposite. There's occasions where you really
have to dig your heels in and kind of work with something to turn it in to what
you thought it was going to be. The best things always come easier in music.
donny: They always surprise you.
robin: Everybody seems to have a different favorite aspect or player regarding
The Verve Pipe.
donny: People say a lot about the drums.
a.j.: I knew I picked up the wrong instrument!
donny: I would hope that people could view it in such a way that what I do,
what A.J. does, what Brian and Doug and Brad are doing is defining itself as
part of the whole.
a.j.: Brad, by the way, is setting trends in hair.
donny: Yeah, it's not his bass playing...no, it is his bass playing, and it's his
hair. It's fire hair at the moment.
robin: Is there such a thing as "alternative rock?" From your vantage point,
are people's standards in current music heightening or lowering?
a.j.: I don't think there's such a thing as alternative rock anymore. I think
alternative rock existed when R.E.M. couldn't get played on mainstream radio.
To me "alternative" is just another label set up by the music industry in order
to back something. People like to have things in these nice tidy packages, a
little box that they can hold onto and understand what it is. But no, it's just
rock 'n roll to me.
donny: From my vantage point, I think people's standards are heightening.
But that's from where I see it and where I want to see it. I eventually want to
bring something to this that is EVERYTHING it could be. I don't want to
subscribe to the lowest common denominator to reach people. Another great
thing about what's going on with us is that there's always a different horizon,
there's always something coming up to look forward to. A.J., you were
answering the question about how you handle people's perception of us. For
every time that you get somebody patting you on the back, a real moment of
that, or someone who really understands that you're working hard, you'll get
somebody who's through the gonzo roof for you who doesn't understand that
you get a lot of sleepless hours, and you have little wacky sleeping and eating
habits. By the same token, you'll have someone you really admire and respect
come up to you, like one of the guys from Semisonic, and say something
about your playing....and it will mean more to me than five people who have
this twisted perception of what I'm trying to do or what this band is about. But I
need equal doses. It's the same with negative and positive reviews....I wouldn't
expect us to get all negative nor all positive.
a.j.: The key is to maintain a sense of humility.
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5/7/97 The Verve Pipe in the MTV Arena
MTVixen: Welcome to the MTV Arena for this chat with The Verve Pipe. I
have a bit of background info for you, then we will take the audience's
questions. The Verve Pipe, from lovely East Lansing, Michigan, has got
quite a buzz on these days. Their video for "The Freshmen" is in the Buzz
Bin on MTV. Their major label debut, Villains, which was produced by
former Talking Heads member Jerry Harrison, is doing quite nicely, thank
you. And perhaps most impressively, the boys in The Verve Pipe can count
the members of Kiss among their fans, as Gene Simmons and Co. tabbed
The Verve Pipe to join the Kiss tour for three weeks in Europe.
MTVixen: The Verve Pipe is: Brian Vander Ark (Lead Vocals, Guitars),
Donny Brown (Drums, Background vocals), A.J. Dunning (Guitars,
Background Vocals), Doug Corella (Keyboards, Percussion), and Brad
Vander Ark (Bass, Background Vocals).
MTVixen: Welcome, guys!
D0NNYbrown: Hello
AJ xoxo: Howdy!
Brian xoxo: How do?
VERVE P1PE: What's up cyberworld?
MTVixen: The whole band is here, Brad and Doug are sharing the screename:
VERVE PIPE...Let's ROLL! Time for the first question...
MTVog: BearHug14 asks: Question: I love your band!! I was just curious how it
got its name??
D0NNYbrown: that ones for Doug
VERVE P1PE: It means nothing. next.
AJ xoxo: We stole it- was going to be Oasis' name...
MTVog: Jami6280 asks: Question: You guys are really good, who are your
influences in music?
D0NNYbrown: Beatles
VERVE P1PE: Beatles, XTC, Elton John, Peter Gabriel,
AJ xoxo: The Beatles, XTC, Elvis Costello, Elton John...
MTVog: Joelrican asks: Question: How did you come up with the lyrics to
"Freshman"? (My favorite song)
AJ xoxo: ask Brian...
D0NNYbrown: this ones for Brad
AJ xoxo: Dougie?
VERVE P1PE: Brian?
Brian xoxo: I overheard a story at a party one time and decided to cash in on it.
MTVog: Another "Freshman" question- Kiwi40386 asks: Question: What is the
song "The Freshman" about?
AJ xoxo: Donny?
VERVE P1PE: Brian?
D0NNYbrown: Brad?
AJ xoxo: Brad?
Brian xoxo: It's about making mistakes and living with them.
MTVog: Sharree82 asks: Question: I hear you guys are really great acoustically.
When if ever will you film MTV Unplugged?
VERVE P1PE: Hopefully soon.
AJ xoxo: Not sure- love to it sometime, though...
D0NNYbrown: They won't let us bring our side kick band KISTLE so we're holding
out
Brian xoxo: We wanted to but Fiona Apple took our spot.
MTVog: MoTori96 wants to know: Question: what advice would you give a band
from a small town with no chance of making it big. i mean it's always something
you dream of but how would you go about making it happen?
VERVE P1PE: There's always a chance. Just keep writing songs.
D0NNYbrown: If you got no chance, forget about it
AJ xoxo: write, write, write... then steal all you can... or get some cool pants
D0NNYbrown: actually, listen to great music and steal liberally from it
MTVixen: XgrohlX asks: Question: What is your opinion of Michigan's rock music
scene??
D0NNYbrown: it rocks!
VERVE P1PE: A lot of great support amongst the bands.
AJ xoxo: wonderful place to be from , musically- tons of great bands
D0NNYbrown: lots of good bands from alot of different areas-lots of good sounds,
lots of water surrounding lots of good bands
Brian xoxo: Check out Papa Vegas.
MTVog: GONDOLA40 asks: Question: What and when is the next single coming
out?
VERVE P1PE: Villains - as soon as "The Freshman" dies.
MTVog: SK8ERGRAB asks: Question: i was wondering how did you get the
band started... and come to be so good?
AJ xoxo: Donny's actually Elvis incarnated
VERVE P1PE: Donny?
D0NNYbrown: the band started from breaking up 2 bands and becoming one and
thanks for the compliment
MTVog: Jeweliet3 asks: Question: what do you guys the like to do for fun ? and i
just wanted to say i really love your freshman song
VERVE P1PE: Drink and smoke.
AJ xoxo: we like eating LOTS of chicken...
D0NNYbrown: some smoking and drinking
Brian xoxo: Watching films is the only true pleasure that i have anymore. That and
maybe my time spent sleeping
MTVixen: Th3rd asks: Question: When did all of yall meet?
AJ xoxo: At a tough man competion- we were ushers
VERVE P1PE: Brad met Brian at birth.
D0NNYbrown: Painting a chicken shack in Kalamazoo, MI
MTVog: MrBiggs21 asks: Question: DO you guys smell bad when you get off
stage?
VERVE P1PE: Brian does.
AJ xoxo: never- fresh as a daisy- save for Brian...
D0NNYbrown: doesn't matter, i'm always wearing AJ's shirt
Brian xoxo: HEY!!!!!!
MTVog: EggBoyRL asks: Question: What is your view on moshing?
AJ xoxo: hate it- takes away from music
VERVE P1PE: We prefer crowds that listen.
Brian xoxo: Hate it. It could not die a quicker death.
D0NNYbrown: rather people spent time listening than having to look over their
shoulder for a boot about to hit them in the head.
MTVog: Dr Zero G asks: Question: Will you guys ever do a B-side album?
D0NNYbrown: great idea
VERVE P1PE: besides what?
AJ xoxo: that'd be a cool thing... never thought about it
MTVog: Doutgirl1 wnats to know: Question: Do up plan on having any concerts in
New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi
AJ xoxo: Donny?
D0NNYbrown: we wuz chased out the south as time we wuz down yonder.
Brian xoxo: We can't go back to Louisiana because Brad once killed a hooker
with a comb.
VERVE P1PE: Yes, check out our website for tour dates:
http://www.thevervepipe.com
MTVixen: For a list of their tourdates, see keyword: mtvmusic, and look at MTV
Online's Concert Info.
MTVog: Lawwa2 has to know: Question: I really like veneer, what's it about?
please answer one of my questions!!! :)
D0NNYbrown: ask another question
AJ xoxo: it's about furniture cleaner
D0NNYbrown: brian
VERVE P1PE: It was a transendental epiphany.
Brian xoxo: It was meant to be a children's book but then I decided that for me
music and lyrics shall be forever wed.
MTVog: BRD NWL asks: Question: You guys were on the Jenny Mcarthy show,
did you enjoy it?
AJ xoxo: it was wonderful- great girl, stacked like a high-rise
VERVE P1PE: I had a great time but my eyes were dried out.
MTVixen: PWhalen59 asks: Question: I heard about the light show that you guys
have is amazing. Does that play a big part in your show?
VERVE P1PE: Definitely.
D0NNYbrown: our light man is leaving us and we'll miss him-we're trying to get
AJ xoxo: enough of a part not to be distracting- just enhancing
D0NNYbrown: jenny mccarthy to do lights
Brian xoxo: It's avery big part of the show. We've been using 7 Mary 3's light man.
MTVog: DONNYBAYN asks: Question: Are you going to collaborate with any
other bands in the near future?
AJ xoxo: We'll have to get her a real big lamanate
VERVE P1PE: Hell no!!
D0NNYbrown: no plans but we like so many bands there is always a possiblity
MTVog: Kisses0lo asks: Question: who are your heros
AJ xoxo: My folks...
VERVE P1PE: Aquaman!
AJ xoxo: oh, and that guy on tv who spins plates... cool...
D0NNYbrown: that one guy who does all those good things
Brian xoxo: I'm so pathetic. I have no heros.
MTVixen: Lizard696 asks; Question: i wanna know how ya'll got noticed by a
record company
D0NNYbrown: tight slacks
AJ xoxo: One word- Brad
VERVE P1PE: Brian's ass.
Brian xoxo: Brad.
D0NNYbrown: brad
MTVog: Kngdm skr asks: Question: what's your fav. place to visit? Paris,
chicago, home???
AJ xoxo: NY
Brian xoxo: New York City.
D0NNYbrown: home
VERVE P1PE: New York.
AJ xoxo: ...and Donny's bunk...
MTVog: Retrogal asks: Question: Who would you guys most like to tour with?
D0NNYbrown: donny's bung
AJ xoxo: Radiohead
VERVE P1PE: Radiohead
D0NNYbrown: radiohead
Brian xoxo: Radioheard.
MTVixen: Gridwolve asks: Question: Donny, how long have you been drumming?
I'm a drummer too, and could only *wish* to be as good as you...
AJ xoxo: lot's of people don't know this, but Donny's actually Paul McCartney
D0NNYbrown: i've been drummin awhile-thanks for the flattery
MTVog: Referring to an earlier question (about who Verve Pipe would do
Unplugged with), Kerri039 asks: Question: Who are KISTLE?
AJ xoxo: The best band ever!!!!!!!!!!
D0NNYbrown: it's actually KISSTLE-it's a band made up of Kiss and the Beatles
VERVE P1PE: Gene Simmons, John Lennon, Ringo Star, and Ace Frehley
MTVixen: BlkSuede3 asks: Question: Where did you tape the "sing-along"
version Freshmen?
AJ xoxo: Brian's treehouse...
Brian xoxo: Kalamazoo State Theatre.
VERVE P1PE: Kalamazoo, in the State Theater bathroom.
D0NNYbrown: Brian's treehouse
MTVog: Airwalk98 asks: Question: WHY DO YOU GUYS HAVE A DIFFERENT
VERSION OF THE FRESHMEN FOR THE VIDEO AND THE ALBUM?
D0NNYbrown: AJ?
AJ xoxo: cause the album version SUCKED!!!! seriously, we wanted to use the
entire band for the track
Brian xoxo: I liked the album version. it's moodier and sexier.
AJ xoxo: shut up!
Brian xoxo: No you shut up!
D0NNYbrown: shut up both of you
AJ xoxo: come over here and say that!
MTVog: NHill2777 asks: Question: How do you guys feel about music
videos?????
AJ xoxo: a nessesary evil
D0NNYbrown: can't talk/FIGHTING
Brian xoxo: It's a great form of expression. I'm a fan of film and I appreciate a
director's perspective of a song.
D0NNYbrown: i like the idea of videos though the process can leave me cold
MTVog: Tmblweed1 asks: Question: If you could be any fruit, what fruit would you
be and why? I would be a kiwi because it's fun to say. Kiwi..kiwi...kiwi.. see now
isn't that fun??
D0NNYbrown: enjoy yourself. BYE
Brian xoxo: It's more fun to say "cu