Session Start: Tue May 05 18:57:19 1998
* Logging #campus to '#campuswd.log'
<Zonie> * AngieDixon * want a little program that checks atomic clock and sets 
system clock ?
<z-Augustus> zonie, where is the program posted
<z-Augustus> do you use it> how often does it check the time
<Zonie> all the time : )> is a stand alone, don't play with registery
you have to run it
<z-Augustus> ok, thats better
<Zonie> very small, very simple
<z-Augustus> I like to keep control
<AngieDixon> I guess we could get started. No one is showing they have
 a question. Anyone having any
<AngieDixon> problems with the lessons or with following the class?
<Granny-Wicked> yes me!!
<Granny-Wicked> I have questions
<Granny-Wicked> well did you get my email about using items on commerical
 site for pages, that are copyrighted for items selling?
<Granny-Wicked> for instance my company wants me to set up page that uses 
items they sell can I use the products pictures and logos?
<z-Dowie> Ask it again Granny, so we can all know what you mean.
<AngieDixon> Sounds familiar. It was for your company, right, & I suggested
 you check with whoever was in charge of the advertising for those items, to 
find out what your copyright agreement
<z-Augustus> geocities sent out a memo telling everyone to stop linking to
 commercial pagess
<AngieDixon> was? I meant to suggest that, anyway.
<AngieDixon> Wait. You can't LINK to commercial pages? That's ridiculous.
 Unless they mean to stop 
<Granny-Wicked> we can use them for newspaper ads, radio, etc, with slicks 
so can I do that use them to under the company name?

<AngieDixon> Okay, back to the question. There's a discussion going on, 
on one of the HWG lists, that
<AngieDixon> fits this question.
<AngieDixon> The question is, can you use logos, photos etc. of products 
you sell (or your client) on
<AngieDixon> your web page. The answer is--if you have permission to use
 those items in your advertising,
<AngieDixon> and that permission is not limited to a specific type of 
advertising, or if you specifically
<AngieDixon> have permission to use them on a web site, you can use them
 on your web site, as long as
<AngieDixon> you indicate trademarks and all of that stuff.
<AngieDixon> For instance, I'm setting up a hosting service. I'll be hosting sites 
created with Microsoft (R) Front Page (R) 
<AngieDixon> They have some graphics I can use, including a nice hosting logo and 
a very nice package 
<AngieDixon> photo. I have permission to use them on my site, for those purposes.
 But if I wanted to do,
<AngieDixon> say, a print ad, I'd need to go back to them & get permission,
 because I have "restricted
<AngieDixon> permission" for a web site only. And I have to make sure I put a 
trademark symbol after
<AngieDixon> "Microsoft" and "Front Page" every time I use them on the site.
<AngieDixon> Did that help, or confuse the issue?
<kayroller> helped 
<Granny-Wicked> so if we as a company can use them in newspaper ads, we can use 
them on the net? or just link to thier sites?
<Granny-Wicked> as long as we use thier logo's etc
<AngieDixon> You can use them on the net, unless your agreement with them says
 that you can only use them
<AngieDixon> in newspaper ads. I would say, you can probably use them, but it 
might be a good idea to
<AngieDixon> get confirmation from someone else to protect your nether regions.
 (otherwise known as covering
<AngieDixon> your assets :>)
<Granny-Wicked> lolrof thanks angie, I have more but will wait for others to ask first
<AngieDixon> I'm sorry to be vague, but it's hard to be specific on legal issues 
because the laws vary...
<AngieDixon> Who was next? Kayroller?
<kayroller> when most of your page is columns do you need pictures 
<kayroller> columns = tables 
<AngieDixon> It really depends on the type of information you're presenting.
 If you feel like you can
<AngieDixon> present the information in a useful way without pictures, 
you don't *NEED* them.
<AngieDixon> Pictures can be either decoration or information.
<kayroller> I am haveing a hard time finding pictures for disabled things 
<AngieDixon> Decoration is not a *bad* thing. But if you're just putting in 
pictures because you think
<AngieDixon> you need pictures, you should probably leave them otu.
<AngieDixon> As far as pictures for "disabled things," you might try using pictures
 that represent
<AngieDixon> topics, rather than illustrate people with disabilities. For instance,
 if you're talking
<AngieDixon> about using computers with screen readers, you might try to find
 a clipart computer you
<AngieDixon> like, & fit it into the page. But you don't HAVE to do that.
 You can use tables &
<AngieDixon> organize your text & have a very nice page.
<kayroller> ok thank you 
<AngieDixon> Anne?
<anneH> I was reading the information in our suggested text on the graphic swipe 
file and still was not sure why she suggested a screen shot rather than saving the 
graphic. I know part of it had to do with permission to use something, but what
 would you do with screen shot?
<AngieDixon> Hmm. I don't remember that. She probably (and since I don't remember
 it I'm just guessing)
<AngieDixon> She probably felt that doing a screen shot would give you a record 
of where you got
<AngieDixon> the graphic and what their permission policy is. I think it would be
 easier to keep the
<anneH> maybe i am also misinterpreting. That could well be it
<AngieDixon> images in folders by the name of the site, & keep a text file listing
 what each site
<AngieDixon> requires. 
<AngieDixon> Or name them so that the site name is incorporated. Or keep a database
 of all the images
<AngieDixon> with the site they came from & the permission rules associated with them.
<AngieDixon> There are all kinds of ways to do it.
<anneH> thanks.
<AngieDixon> Augustus?
<Augustus> when a page states these images may be used for personal use , 
does that mean we can use them on a personal page
<AngieDixon> Right. Often they'll say either "may be used for personal use,
" or they'll say "NOT for commercial use."
<z-Augustus> ok
<AngieDixon> I occasionally use images from those sites on client sites, 
but I always ask permission, &
<z-Augustus> are you using mirc
<AngieDixon> occasionally I have to pay a small fee.
<AngieDixon> Yes.
<z-Augustus> why are you sentences broken up
<AngieDixon> Because I'm not paying attention & there's something covering
 the end of my line (a pop-up) & after I go beyond that, I can't see the sentence, 
so I hit return so I can see the sentence.
<z-Augustus> ok
<z-Augustus> tks
<AngieDixon> Or I could just move the pop-up somewhere else,
 it doesn't have anything to do with this.
<AngieDixon> Anyone else have a question?
<AngieDixon> Be right back. Child problem.
<z-Augustus> can I say something to kayroller
<z-kayroller> hi 
<z-Augustus> kayroller, check out my page and click on "remarkabel woman"
to see what I did with a woman who had a double lung transplant
<z-kayroller> ok I will 
<z-Augustus> http://www.ktc.com/personal/lee
<z-Augustus> I got her permission to use the picture, ahahhha
<z-Augustus> and post her email address
<AngieDixon> Okay. I'm back. Sometimes it gets a little crazy around here 
with a toddler & an infant. 
<AngieDixon> Mamabear, did you have a question?
<mamabear2> yes you said you have to pay a small fee usually how much
<AngieDixon> A couple of times images have cost me $5 or $10, if they cost 
anything; often people are thrilled
<AngieDixon> that you WANT to use their images. I once needed 10 surfing images
 for a presentation, & I was able
<AngieDixon> to use some without any charge at all; I have a client who has gotten
 permission to use some
<AngieDixon> animated gifs on her site for free.
<mamabear2> are you using these on a com site
<AngieDixon> Yes. Sometimes people will okay it, if you ask, and the "fee" if they 
ask for one is pretty low.
<mamabear2> i have a com site and have been trying to find out were the backgroungs
 Im using came from.
<AngieDixon> Even "commercial" places like PhotoDisc don't charge an incredible 
amount--I don't remember how much PhotoDisc charges for a web image (72 dpi),
 but Dynamic Graphics quoted me something like $10.
<mamabear2> thats realy good 
<AngieDixon> It might have been $15, but I know it was less than $20, 
and it was for high-quality clipart and photos.
<z-holly> nick /holly
<z-holly> oops sorry
<AngieDixon> They also offered to do my search based on my keywords & get back to me.
<AngieDixon> johnny? Question?
<johnny> yes, if a site says not to alter graphics, does that mean that you
<johnny> can not use it in a borderbackground?
<AngieDixon> What it means is that you can't change the graphic. 
Some places wouldn't mind if it was incorporated
<AngieDixon> into another graphic, some would. But changing colors or 
anything like that would be a no-no. If you want to incorporate it into
 another graphic, the best thing is to ask.
<johnny> also, does anyone know of a psp 5 tutorial on drop shadows?
<AngieDixon> I have a list of psp tutorials, let me see if I can find it.
 I don't know if it has that one, but 
<AngieDixon> it's a link to a list.
<AngieDixon> Holly? Question?
<holly> what is a search based on your key words for, and if you alter
 ( if it does not say do not alter)an image is it then Ok to use it
<johnny> thanks Angie
<z-Augustus> psp has a newsgroup, ill have the address next time
<AngieDixon> Okay. Why is your entry in the search engines found based 
on your keywords? Is that the first question?
<AngieDixon> I'm trying to do three things at once, none of them very well :>
<holly> earlier you said something about a search for your key words
<holly> I had not heard of anyone doing this
<holly> I guess you were refering to the page title??
<AngieDixon> That would be in meta tags. In the top of your page code,
 you can use <META NAME=description CONTENT="A description of the page">
<z-anneH> http://www.wwnet.net/~ahartman/congraph.html is my web page that
 has newsgroups and discussions along with psp links
<AngieDixon> and <META NAME=keywords CONTENT="Some keywords people might 
use in searching for your site">. MOST search engines will use these tags,
<AngieDixon> if they're there.
<z-anneH> i just keep checking as a lot of the ones for the prior psp are 
just beginning to add psp5 ones
<z-Kadp> http://mardiweb.com/web/  Is a psp turorial
<z-anneH> i would love to add it if it is a new one angie
<holly> thanks, In printing I was told if you alter an image it is no longer 
copyrited and I could use it.
<AngieDixon> If they are not there, the search engine will just pull text
 off your page. But if you have a description meta tag, that will be the 
description the search engine gives of your site, if it uses tags.
<AngieDixon> And the keywords will make the search engine aware of the keywords 
for your site, so when people search
<AngieDixon> they will have a better chance of finding you.
<AngieDixon> There's a good search engine tutorial at www.northernwebs.com.
<holly> thanks
<AngieDixon> I'm looking for that psp link. Hang on.
<AngieDixon> Okay, here it is. I have no idea whose site this is
 (probably Anne's :>:>) but it had some good tutorials.
<AngieDixon> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9871/PSPlinks.html
<AngieDixon> Holly, as far as altering if they don't say not to--you can
 usually change a color here or the size there, & 
<AngieDixon> use the graphic. But you can't change it & claim it's yours,
 of course. I read an article in PC World
<AngieDixon> a few months ago. Some guy's "themes" site had been 
listed as a top freebie site, then when they found
<AngieDixon> out that he used other people's themes, altered them & SOLD
 them (not free, but shareware), they yanked his award.
<AngieDixon> This guy actually wrote in & said, "I think I should be 
entitled to charge for all the work I put into these themes."
 Never mind that someone else had put in a lot of work before hand; his contention was,
 I stole it, I changed it, it's mine.
<AngieDixon> Pretty amazing.
<z-Augustus> hahahah
<z-Augustus> when I steal , I dont resell
<holly> just chencking, I found a free site and altered a background image and used it
<z-anneH> angie, the site you listed is already on my graphics 
tutorials page and it is nice because she organizes same topics from a 
lot of different places, i imagine psp 5 is not too different thatn 4.12 
for drop shadows
<AngieDixon> Yeah, the reselling part was what got him in trouble :>
 But just changing the color to go with your site should be okay.