Session Start: Mon May 18 17:44:02 1998
*** Now talking in #campus
#campus topic is 'Beginning Programming with VBasic 4.0'
#campus topic set by Zonie on Mon May 18 17:27:27
<Derek1> So how is everyone doing with the VB info?
<Derek1> Good Here! Head swimming with coding, but it is getting better.
<Zonie> present and accounted for and you : )
<VBTeach> Head swimming with code too!!  LOL!!!  Spent all weekend writing 
a program .... have been colaborating with John ......
<VBTeach> Didn't realize how rusty I am!!  LOL!!!
<Derek1> What kind of program?
<VBTeach> One that a company near John needs for their orders ....
<VBTeach> If it works well for them, we may be able to market it to others!
<Derek1> That would be Great!
<VBTeach> Sure would!!! 
<VBTeach> How is everyone doing with their projects?
<Derek1> Hey Teach. Do you think it would be a good idea to include the Dim 
and code on the TOE chart?
<VBTeach> No Derek.  It would be a good idea to come up with variable names 
in your pseudocode tho .... and your pseudocode is similar to the code you will write.
<Derek1> too much on one thing?
<VBTeach> Yep. The TOE chart is mainly for designing your form.  Not for coding. 
 It does give you a good idea of where the code is to go, tho.
<Derek1> Would you have a look and see if it looks right to you?
<VBTeach> Sure!
<Derek1> Sorry I had to upload it.
* Happypup is getting into vb5, visual interdev and visualj++, can I get help
 on coding if I get stuck?
<Derek1> http://www.connect.ab.ca/~trihulld/TOEDC.htm
<VBTeach> Derek, I hope you aren't dimensioning your objects?
<VBTeach> Sorry Hap, don't know a thing about visual interdex or visual j++ .....
<Derek1> no just trying to get some of the code words etc.
<Derek1> seams easier if I have the names
<VBTeach> Ok.  That's fine!  If you want to include variables and how you will 
dimension them in your toe chart, I see nothing wrong with it.  Whatever makes
 it easiest for you.
<Derek1> OK
<QSilver> VBTeach, to what degree do we need to do error checking for our program?
<VBTeach> But then, we'd have to call it a TODE chart .... hmmmmm
<Derek1> I called it TOEDC   lol
<VBTeach> QSilver, I am not requiring any error checking at all.  If you would
 like to include it, you can!
<QSilver> k
<VBTeach> That's right!  TOEDC!  kinda hard to pronounce ....  But it looks
 great!  
<Derek1> hahaha
<Derek1> code makes me crazy, so maybe the diversion will help.
<VBTeach> QSilver, error checking will come into it next term ....
<QSilver> okie dokie
* Happypup loves these classes, get's me on track for the basics, sometimes 
overlooked when you you do other things
<VBTeach> By the way, the new lesson is posted .... sorry it's late!
<Derek1> on the way. lol
<Derek1> any word on the execises for the book?
<VBTeach> Nothing yet!
<VBTeach> We will probably hear something by the time the term ends .... it's
 looking that way!
<Derek1> better late than never.
<VBTeach> I'm going to email Mr. Weston from MCP and find out what's going on!  
VU has sent 2 faxes already!
<VBTeach> Is everyone finding the book we are useing to be clear?
<VBTeach> using ... sorry ....
<Happypup> yes, clear, but outdated a little
<Derek1> Well there is a few typo's in the E version, but not to bad.
<VBTeach> I agree it's a bit outdated with VB5 out .....
<VBTeach> But, as I keep saying, the coding principles are the same .....
<Happypup> yes, that's true and the coding id the important part
<Happypup> id=is
<VBTeach> The only difference I've seen different between 4 and 5 is the use of 
the common dialog box ..... at least for objects we will be covering both terms ...
<VBTeach> When I write lessons for next term, if coding is going to be different
 for 5 than it is for 4, I will make a note of it in the lessons.
<Happypup> well, the main diffence I have seen is the wizard that creates most of 
the project for you, but you strill have to write the code
<VBTeach> I haven't used the wizard.... But the project I was working on this weekend
 was in VB5.  It's really the first major project I've written in 5 .....
<Derek1> In the VB4 Book they don't prefix with the data type like thay do in the 
VB5 Book
<VBTeach> I never learned to prefix, so I still don't.  I think it's a matter of
 preference. It doesn't make a difference to the code.  If you dim a variable
 for a certain data type, it's fine.
<VBTeach> I think the only reason variables are prefixed with data types is so you
 will know their data types when using them.  Just like when you prefix an object.
<Derek1> Right. OK, but when as slow at this as me, I need all the help I can get.
<Happypup> and for less memory usage
<VBTeach> When you dim a variable, that specifies the memory usage.  It works the 
same way when prefixing one.
<VBTeach> I'm not sure, but I don't think prefixing variables was recognized in 
VB3 - the version I learned with.  But it was available for use in 4.
<VBTeach> Any other VB questions?
<Zonie> wouldn't DIM be more reliable, rather than taking a chance on "Not Enough 
Memeory" error half way through the program : )
<Happypup> was the memory usage implemented with the native compiler in %?
<Happypup> 5
<VBTeach> I prefer using the dim statement.  I also prefer setting my options to 
force dimensioning variables.
<VBTeach> Not sure Hap!
<VBTeach> Oh!  I see what you are asking.  Actually, even in 3, memory usage was
 taken into consideration.
<VBTeach> Each data type has it's own amount of memory it will use.
<VBTeach> Variant is the worse .... not sure if it was available in 3 tho ....
<VBTeach> Memory usage was always a concern back then when the most ppl had was 
around 4mb ....
* Happypup notices that progammers are getting sloppy, assuming more memory instead 
of writing fast code
<VBTeach> Remember, when you dimension a variable, you are setting aside a piece
 of memory for that variable to access.  If you don't dimension a variable, it is 
automatically given the Variant data type, which uses the most memory.
<VBTeach> Yep!  I agree Hap!  I only have 16mb ..... my daughter is sitting over
 here with 64mb!
<Derek1> that makes sense
<VBTeach> I would prefer using a program that takes my RAM into consideration!
<VBTeach> If you want to force yourselves to be "good programmers" go into your 
options, and put a check in the box for "Require Variable Declaration"
<Zonie> it's easy to forget that not everyone has 128mb ram : )
<VBTeach> LOL!!!!  Yep!!  Not everyone has even 32 mb!!!
<Happypup> and it runs a LOT faster on ram than a swap file
<VBTeach> That is true, Hap!
<QSilver> I work for Intel and none of my machines has more than 32 Meg or is 
faster than a 166. :(
<VBTeach> I'm a puter science teacher at a college, and my puter is a pentium 
120 with 32mb .....
<VBTeach> It was a fight just to get them to upgrade me to Office 97!
<Happypup> and Intel has good machines compared to a lot of companies
<VBTeach> The next fight will be for them to update the lab to Office 97!
<Happypup> a lot of people are still on dx66's
<Derek1> so people with computers are more foolish than conpanies.  :)
<QSilver> Yeah, we just upgrade to Outlook.
<VBTeach> I would think at Intel, everyone would have the new 400!
<Happypup> yes, we spend more on updates without a doubt
<QSilver> Yeah, that's what I thought too...they kinda tight with stuff like
 that though.
<VBTeach> They had a shock .... they went to upgrade the puters in the labs to
 Netscape 4.04, but the machines didn't have enuf HD space, nor memory!
<VBTeach> I'm on a dx120 at home ......
<QSilver> I even had to bring my Visual C++ 5. So I didn't have to use 4.
<Happypup> I have a 200mmx, but will be a while till I update thios one
<VBTeach> I had to do that with Visual Basic.  They wouldn't install it on my 
puter, even tho I was teaching the class!
<QSilver> It's interesting that they want quality software but won't give you 
the best tools.
<Happypup> and a 200mmx is outdated now!
<Happypup> seems like they come out with a faster chip every month now
<QSilver> Yeah, There coming out with a new family that will go over 500 Mhz.
<QSilver> There = they're
<Happypup> well, until it feeds me and does my laundry, I'm here with m200
<QSilver> Can I ask a more advanced question?
<VBTeach> Yes QSilver?  
<QSilver> Does Visual Basic do shifts. Like C's << or >>?
<VBTeach> I don't know Qsilver.  My knowledge of C is very basic, so I'm not
 even sure what you mean?
<VBTeach> anna?  Are you in the VU visual basic class?
<Derek1> hang inthere anna1
<anna1> nope
<Sera^AFK> Zonie, <Happypup> justy meet hi in a motel and cut off his pe... (see above)
<anna1> but my class is supposed to meet here at this time
<VBTeach> Ok.  That's what this is .....
<anna1> unless all my clocks are wrong
<Zonie> ah ok, but that not worth edit : )
<anna1> web graphics
<QSilver> Ok, Can Visual Basic do logical functions like AND, OR or XOR?
<anna1> advanced
<VBTeach> Sure can QSilver!
<QSilver> What's  the syntax?
<VBTeach> XOR ... I don't think so, but VB does do And, Or, Not
<VBTeach> It should be in this next lesson .... If number <> 5 and number > 10 then
<Derek1> I think that is on Tuesday anna1
<anna1> OMG I don't believe this.....man my weeks are all confused now
<VBTeach> It's lesson 6 stuff ....
<VBTeach> Hi Ron!
<anna1> sorry, I'll just quietly bow out now
<ron30> Hi Teach
<VBTeach> That was a good question that QSilver posted.
<VBTeach> If anyone would like, I will put together a table that shows the difference.
<VBTeach> It's all a true/false thing.  And related to decision making.
<Sera^AFK> Yes, please.
<QSbrb> Can VB do bitwise operations...AND, OR ?
<VBTeach> Yes!  If you are asking about making decisions using And, Or, Not .....
<QSilver> No, I'm taking about like ANDing one value with another.
<VBTeach> They are also used in Looping .... next weeks lesson ....
<Mustang^> logical operators and or yes
<VBTeach> Do you mean:
<QSilver> I could give you a C example if that would help.
<VBTeach> If Number >= Number2 and Number3 = Number4 then do this?
<VBTeach> It would ....
<VBTeach> It might?
<QSilver> No, if you AND 5 with 3 you get 2.
<QSilver> ... or if you OR 5 with 3 you get 7.
<VBTeach> hmmmmmmmmm
<QSilver> ...or if you AND x with y you get z.
<QSilver> I ask cause these operation can speed up code alot.
<VBTeach> No.  Nothing that I know of with VB does that ....
<VBTeach> That is supposed to be the beauty of C ..... Speeding up code ....
<VBTeach> Quick and Dirty, as my instructor called it ....
<QSilver> Yeah, that's sums it up alright. :)
<VBTeach> What could take say - 7 lines of code in VB, would take say - 3 
lines of code in C
<QSilver> hmmm, I thought it was the other way around.
<VBTeach> I only took the one class in C - very basic - but it seemed a lot
 was accomplished in fewer lines of code ....
<VBTeach> C eliminates a lot of the typing ....
<QSilver> Yeah, but you can't open a window or form with one line of code in C.
<VBTeach> That's true!
<VBTeach> Now, I'm talking about C!  Not C++ or Visual C++!
<QSilver> There's a lot more overhead in C or C++ to do windows programming.
<QSilver> VB automatically allocates a lot of memory for variables...like for 
a check box or text.
<VBTeach> But it's advantage is supposed to be its portability.
<QSilver> Yeah, it's more portable but most software is written for the PC nowadays.
<VBTeach> That is true!
<VBTeach> Any VB questions?
<Derek1> I think I am cool for now.
<VBTeach> Next week will include the last of the coding for your projects.  
The concepts for this week and next week are very important as they apply to
 other languages .... 
<VBTeach> So, please, pay special attention to them.
Session Close: Mon May 18 19:47:50 1998