Session Start: Tue May 12 22:07:08 1998 * Logging #campus to: [#campus.log] Okay. Let's get started. Ruth? Question? You missed anneH Oops. Anne? i am trying to change to the z, but I loved your site design example Thanks. I recycled that from a site I actually did, I thought it was a very clear example of what I was trying to say. Okay. Any other questions, then? What are we all doing here if we already know everything? Wow. I can go to bed EARLY. where cxan I find some cool test fro a banner I learned from a friend, that photos aligned left for right should be looking into the page and not out cool text for a banner, got to change that light bulbso I can see Hmm. I don't know of any free font places offhand, but I know art today (www.arttoday) has a gazillion (well a few thousand) fonts, & it's only $17.95 a year, which is a great bargain, they have wonderful art also. That's a good point, Augustus. That way they draw the eye across the page. Microsoft offers some free fonts on their site http://people.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~kikita/newfont.htm Of course they do, I should have thought of that. They offer free EVERYTHING. do yo have he microsoft ddress SiteBuilder Network, from them, is a good free membership. It's www.microsoft.com fontastic also has a lot http://people.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~kikita/mega.htm http://www.fontface.com/ and the SiteBuilder Network address is www.microsoft.com/sitebuilder (or sbn, but I think sitebuilder) http://web23.interspeed.net/fonts/ http://web23.interspeed.net/dingbats/fontbats/fontbats.htm http://www.greenapple.com/~cpdenn/ Wow. Now I'll have to go check some of these places out, & my husband will complain about my fonts again, and then I'll have to get divorced. that's my list : ) I hope you're HAPPY, Zonie. I only got just over 300 Actually, after I bought ClickArt 125,000 and then started looking at other packages, he said, "Well, at least it's not fonts." only just over 400 plugins for PS and PSP Before that it was high top tennis shoes, so I'm getting to things that take up less room--the clipart's on CDs. I'd like the addresses fro some PS plug-ins, sometime. mamabear, did you ahve a question? Do you know were to find a card or post card program, or do I need to write it my self. I'v look every were for one for my shop web site. Avery Label Pro Hmm. There are a couple of ways to do that. I found one at a free script place, can't find the URL right now, but it seems like it might be something like freescript.com. for postcards I have a zip file of 250 if you'd like it : ) If a page has fancy fonts and I dont have them will I be able to see them. no the virtual kind you Also, there are SERVICES, like www.123greetings.com and www.mypostcards.com. are we talking web based postcards or cards for desktop publishin? web based postcards I will see if I can find that script URL, be right back. I haven't used it yet because I don't know how to set up a CGI script (hangs head in shame). Zonie what does your zip file contain??????? My boss thinks that if we have such a program people will come back more offten, and maybe also buy flowers mamabear, if you give me your email, i will put you in touch with someone who added that to her business site 4 Zonie: what is in the zip file???????? cabray@earthlink.net thank you 250 plugins that work with PS or PSP k all sorts of things I've een planning to try that on my own site, to see if it will draw people. But I haven't had time to mess with it yet. please send it to me Well, I'll be. http://freescripts.com. There's a free postcard CGI that looks relatively straightforward, except for that one little handicapping condition I have. too big to send DCC : ) ok would take all night ok can it be emailed you will really break and clog your mailbox with that one, do not even think about it I dont have all night how big it is Any more questions? thank you if any one finds one please email me thanks again. yes, when do you want our sites up for review? get with me Saturday and I'll set up an ftp session with you This URL is a place where you can set up a greeting card front end http://www.123greetings.com/interface/ Don't know how good it is...but it is something I have been wanting to try I'm planning to use week 8 as a showcase, but you're welcome to post addresses to the bulletin board any time. I tried 123 greetings, and they sent me a faulty script. But I might try again. also do you have a minimum number of pages for commercial site? There's a good basic CGI tutorial that's helped me understand the subject a little better at http://www.webteacher.com/ this is much harder then I thought it would be trying to get levels done Not really. Depends entirely on the business & what you're trying to accomplish. well so far so good, my boss likes it, that is step one yes? It is hard to try to do it that way, but I just finished one where we attacked a page at a time, & it was HELL. Finally convineced him to let me do it my way. MIlton, did you have a question? you may look at http://www.freeacademy.com in Ottawa Ca for a free course in Web including cgi address courtesy of Leapin also can someone help me with scanning in pictures? THANK YOU! I've been looking for that address for days. I had it and lost it. I had the COURSE. Then I had a hard drive crash. question? on What kind of help do you need with scanning? I have a genius colorpage sp2x scanner and scanned pictures for pages, but they came in very very large Granny, I would be glad to help scan it took forever to resize them to site size what can I do to make them smaller to begin with took 8 x 10 page turned it into 44 inch page Granny, your scanner did that? Granny -- what are you feeding it?!?!? LOL Hmm. Sounds like a resolution problem. Do you know if there's a way to set the resolution on the scanner? It could also be a magnification problem, but resoluition sounds most likely. yes resolution 300 dpi and 100% at 100% I know you can adjust the size and dpi's but when brought into psp5 that is the size it opened to Try scanning it at a lower resolution--72 or 100. Try 72, and see how that works. Because what you see on your screen is going to be at 72 dpi, if it's a higher resolution it won't look any higher in res, just BIGGER. That might be the problem, then it wouldn't be so huge to begin with. aw okay thanks, it has taken weeks to resize the pictures they want to use and still keep the color and sharpness I UNDERSTAND. I have had my share of picture problems. Sorry to butt in....here is a listing of places which are supposedly ones where you can get info on setting up greeting cards online ---->>http://cardcentral.net/how.htm okay thanks angie, will try that, cause I still have logo's to do and registered trademarks Thanks, Oh CattyOne. Anything else, anyone? Well, I guess I've taught you everything you need to know, huh? nada, class dismissed? angie, I do but not about advanced class when you get a minute? I think I've got a minute. Maybe 50 of them. * Granny-Wicked said it is about alternative education sites? is that okay? on your distant learning site? Good night all, see ya next week and I'll be reading the bulletin board Yeah? bye are you just the one that puts the site togther? or our you a part of that also? You mean someone actually visits that thing? *S* Blushes, yes Yes, but no blush! I visit lots of sites, I work for The Mining Co.; I put together the features & the links & all of the *information*, but I don't have anything to do with the design. Unfortunately. I hate that new design, but that's just my opinion. I was just courious because my daughter that has adhd want to get out of high school early (she is two years behind right now - age wise) and was interested in getting distant learning classes for her she will be 18 as a junior, and wants to graduate next june so I said I would help her get it done Granny why doesnt she just go take the GED then she can get out and also have a diploma? I haven't been looking for that type of distance learning, but I know there's a LOT of k-12 stuff out there, so I'll keep an eye out, & maybe even try to set up a special links sectino for it. What is that URL Granny? eagel, she wants to graduate, jsut early or Angie? It's http://distancelearn.miningco.com. My new features typically go up on Wednesday afternoon. Thanks. yes I read that too By the way, if anyone has anything they'd like to see (or *write* a feature on), for that distance learning site, please holler. Oops. Please let me know. Ever tried ziff-davis univ (part of PC magazine empire)? she needs only 6 credits to graduate, so I am trying different things too I have been there, but haven't taken any classes with them. I have started the Free Academy training in web design, but didn't get far before I lost the course. I'm trying to find some Novell-like training, that will get me through the exams, without having to sit in class all day. Novell has a Certified Internet Business Strategist Cert and a Certified Web Designer Cert. The test for the Internet Business Strategist (only one test) is one of the tests for the Web Designer Cert. freeacademy has novell, but you can only take 1 class at a time How much does that cost? AND. ONe of the courses for Web Designer is "How to Build Effective Web Sites." They called me MAD at the university. lolrof angie I thought it was MADD they call us all madd!! I think the exams are around $75-$100 each. The classes are fairly expensive, so I'm trying to get that stuff elsewhere. I was surprised; I hadn't seen a course like this anywhere else, but I thought it was neat that Novell required it to pass their exam. The novell books are in the WaldenBook stores up here (VA) Oh, yeah? I wonder if they have the books for the Internet ones yet. There's actually a training center here, bu they don't offer those courses yet because they're new. I think I'll look & see if they have the books. For the first test, I think I can pass the Netscape Communicator part by studying Netscape Communicator, but hte Business Strategy part, I don't know what they'll be looking for. However, the courses, if I could even find them, would be a lot more than taking the exam over. So I'm going to try to get by without them. Books. Why didn't I think of that? So, how's everyone liking the class? Also Barnes & Noble or CROWN BOOKS (also www.Amazon.com or Even VU.ORG !! Anything you'd do differently next time? Okay, Milton, you can stop now, you've made your point :>:>:>:>:> * Granny-Wicked says class is great, making pages is harder then I thought * Granny-Wicked said espcially commercial sites Sometimes it's really easy, sometimes it's hard. Even for people who do it all the time. * Granny-Wicked said but is loads of fun too!! Class is terrific Angie I have a site now, that I just can't get a handle on. just kidding!! We know what we want it to BE like, but we don't know quite what to DO with it. I thought about it. But it's starting to come together a little more. I might actually throw up some "problem children" of my own next time, & let people play with them. yes like all sites do after a while Exactly. It can be frustrating, but eventually everything starts to work, or else you throw it all out & start over with the great idea you had in the shower. THe main problem is knowing when to STOP "fixing." Like the night, at 2 am, I had this sudden urge to redo my site, two weeks after I finished my latest major redesign. I went to bed, & BOY was I glad when I woke up, that I had gone to bed. * Granny-Wicked says my great idea's come at night when I am to tired to get up and write them down, so I try and stay awake and remember them, then late to work, hehehe And have forgotten them by morning! I have that problem, too. Sometimes I repeat it over & over & over, like THAT has ever worked. lolrof yea[ yeap But it works better than waking my husband up & telling him. He NEVER remembers. Plus, he gets mad. Big weinie. lolrof nope he doesn't Did I spell wienie right? No, I didn't. we need automatic tape recorders to the brain when waves of ideas hit us I think I need an intranet with terminals in every room of the house, and one by my bed. * Otter keeps a tiny tape recorder in her nite stand -- very compulsive!!! LOL hmmmm I think I will use otters taperecorder, lolrof Otter sleeps well...lol I carried a tape recorder around for a year and a half- -never used it. But one night at a CHADD meeting a freind needed one for a meeting next day. * z-CattyOne has Notebook by bed, in purse, in glovecompartment they are called personal digital recorders ( a speech digitizer and a big RAM) wakes up in the morning and nothing is on it!! * Otter sleeps like a kitten -- no offense to the kitties here!!! I loaned it to her & said, "I was a boy scout in a previous life." I do too otter but mine is one that is voice activated. I didnt know I talked in my sleep :) but at least I don't snore! Well the stick note just popped up, says to go to bed.lol Thank all of you for the info, that link CtatyOne gave shows 12 places to look.wow nite cattyone Any more comments or questions, or suggestions, or anything? have a good night cattyOne yes one more? how hard is it to break into the commercial site as a webdesigner? Sure. how hard is it to break into the commercial site as a webdesigner? It can be really hard, or really easy. I think if you market yourself well, have a good site, and really go after likely targets, it doesn't have to be as hard as it was for me at first. It's going really well, all of a sudden. thought about that too, Granny. What do you think? I think it is pick your target(s), do a good job, then get referrals. I think after I get this site reviewed I might try it I like doing html, but need more experience in other area's and with setting up the business what is a likely target ? my isp says it will do html coding for $30.00 per hours I've been thinking about putting together a place on my site where students could "register", so to speak--that those of you interested in doing that could network. People or businesses with horrible sites Zonie...hehehe horrible is in the eye of the beholder : ) maybe he will split it $15 -$15 with you I'm looking right now at working with some ISP's in rural areas in my state (AR), and with local copy shops, etc. True enough. When I do get to the point of marketing my skills the first place I will go to are those who advertise in my churches bulletin. Mostly small businesses whith not alot to spend on advertising Also hit your local chamber of commerce, trade orgs in your area, & any particular group you might have a common link with. The creating end I like not the business end. cool angie I like that idea, and I am just across the border from you too Which one? (Border) yes dowie, I agree, with you, so how can we do the creative end and have some one else do the business end? north border I am in missouri, southern central area Another thing is, do free sites for non-profits. That's another area I want to let people "register" in, because I like to do that & would like to coordinate some people & some non-profit groups. I went to school in Columbia. Are you in the Mexico area, or not that North? Find someone who likes business end but knows nothing about or doesn't like creating. Angie -- where in Columbia did you go to school? Or sub-contract iwth a larger firm, or an ISP, or a firm that has an intranet & needs help with it.... you'd still have the invoicing, but not the chasing business. I HATE chasing business. Angie, my hubby works with PTAs and is wanting me to do an interactive site for them in my state. but angie, I have a site for our school that burned down, I tried to get it on the local isp's, one wanted to capture it and take it away, I said no, was willing to give to them and work it but they said no had to do it thier way I went to the U of MO. I am south of mexico, near west plains Ahhh -- a neighbor -- I was at Stephens!!! LOL I know where that is (West Plains). Otter, I'm really sorry :> :) I used to live way out Broadway (Eastgate) & walk to Mizzou. In the winter. Brrr. Anyway. Back to the class :> An interactive site for PTAs would be cool. Granny -- what happened with your school site -- did they keep it? If an ISP doesn't want to work with you, go somewhere else. Even somewhere free. Geocities or angelfire. Hypermart will even do my question is how do you get a site for donated items? free commercial sites, with Front Page extensions. no otter, I still have it I am trying to get a page on my local isp but it is so slow Great Granny!!!! :) A site for donated items? A place to put it up, you mean? yes I have it at geocities now the school site, but no one can find it ALSO. There's no reason you have to use your local ISP when you buy server space. It's a very competitive market. Local ISPs are even though it is listed on the search engins almost never competitive in pricing. so true angie Hmm. How big is it? I can probably give you some space, which would help you get it listed. Sometimes the big freebie sites don't get listed as well, though the search engines swear up & down that's not true. lolrof not that big angie but I need to add more pages as they reconstruct the school * Otter says many search engines frown on geocities -- it has too many sites!!!! I agree otter I don't know why I asked, I just moved to a new site that is 150 Mb. I used to only have 40, & was using 37.5 :< I need to find a good site to list my work on that will be caught by search engines Email me, & we can set the school site up on my site, as a freebie. I'm also going to start offering hosting services, I think, but that's a while off. okay thanks angie, I can do that As a rule,you can get a directory site www.somecompany.com/yourname for about $15-$20 per month, & a virtual domain for $30+, with the $70 Internic domain fee. I use a front page provider called cybervision (www.cybervision-network.com) and get 150MB for $30. virtual domain, means your name on it? But you don't HAVE to use Front Page, they just support it. good price Right. www.granny-wicked.com, for instance. lolrof I don't think so!! hehehe angie: do you do the auto mall on cybervison? The way they can do that, is they have a "sister" company that charges #30 per month for 50 MB, which is more common. also how do you find a good name for yourself? My signa site is on cybervision, my auto mall site is on Corporate-Hosting, www.corporate-hosting.net. Because it uses Active Server Pages & needs an NT server. for starting a company Granny-Wicked is not to cool of a name for company!! *S* Brainstorm. Try to think of something creative & interesting. "Signature Designs" was not the most inspired name I ever came up with. But it works, & is easy to remember. howabout granny-angel And I've only once had someone call me & complain that THEY had a web site, & THEIR name was Signature Designs, & MY site was coming up on the search engines above theirs. lolrof milton!! Granny-Angel. I like that. Or World Wide Wicked? lolrof!! I think that would attact a differnt client!! or top sisteer sister I read an article in FAST COMPANY about a year ago about how companies got their names. Often, they threw a bunch of words on the table & mixed them all up. Seriously. * Granny-Wicked said lcath do you have a question? if so please ask, really I may try that It's all advertising and business -- look in the yellow pages and see what catches your eye and why!!! I just think webdesign is too cool and would love to break into the business Hi, thanks granny. I would steer clear of using the words "cyber," "tech," "hi-tech," and "virtual." Those are all used way too much. yes I agree angie Granny, email me & remind me, I'll try to throw some more tips your way. okay thanks angie How about granny.com I am listening to you all and your great instructor I can't wait to finish this job and see what everyone thinks One way to break in is to work for other designers, doing "grunt work," like submitting to search engines, checking sites, doing minor revisions, etc. Granny, sounds like you and I are thinking alike. would love to find a job here doing grunt work in evenings!! yes I think so dowie Ni-Tol, I gonna just be logging for awhile, see ya all next time, have a great one you are good at this too nite zonie!! Also, if you are really good in a certain area, a lot of design companies contract out small amounts of work!! Angie, I have a question about choosing a place to host a site. Thanks, Granny. In fact, I occasionally need help like that, but right now I can't afford to pay anyone. However, I imagine a lot of places, especially small shops, need that. Sure, dowie. By the way, thanks, lcat. Hi! Hubby is wanting to get a domain name for business but I'm not sure what to look for when trying to choose hi angi Its great to listen to you on campus There are a couple of things to keep in mind. One, try to think of things that are fairly *related* to your biz--if not your name, something people might think of. I am amazed at your quick response ????? dowie: what is your business name Family to Family For instance, there's a GM dealer (can't remember the name) that is www.gmgiant.com try that dowie www.family2family.com THe other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of .com names are taken. That's not the question...we have a name Family2Family.com taken... You might try, family2.com. familiestogether.com. fam2fam.com there is reservations lists for .store .firm .arts .etc fam2family.com Icath - Angie - I'm also an WFP intern fam-to-fam.com I'm speaking more about a server to host the pages. Not finding domain name. OH. Sorry. Misunderstood. like geocities or tripod ? That's okay. Yes, Granny but for commercial make sure YOU own the name (adminstrative contact) let the ISP be the technical contact Dowie I thought thats what freeyellow was? Things to consider are, how much you want to spend, how much space you need, what special things (like Front Page Extensions or CGI bin) They all list all the stuff I don't even know what they are or you need. What Milton said, too. Like we want to do forms so CGI is a must It is like owning your 800 (888, 877) number If you're not sue what you need, I'd try to find someone you know, who has one they like. but I guess I don't know how that works. That would be more my question I have had bad experiences with 2 out of the four I've tried. For example, if we want a bulletin board do we have to use the one the server offers or can we find one we like and use it. Dowie, you can get a leased line to your ISP and put your own computer on line all the time. BUT I suggest you let the ISP do it. That kind of thing. That is something you'll want to discuss with them. SOME places won't let you use custom CGI scripts. If you want to do that, make sure the company you choose lets you. Always get references. ALWAYS. He's been looking at some he found in PC Magazine When you talk to the references, ask them how well the support people respond, are they rude, do they ignore you, do they take forever? always compare prices. My old ISP was paying the telco 240% of what my new ISP is. Okay. I can help you more if you'll email me later, we'll try to make a list of things you might want to ask & check on. that would be really great! Thanks, Angie. You can usually find better prices from dedicated hosting companies than from local ISPs. Almost always. That's what we were looking at ... I think. :) by dedicated hosting companies you are refering to? larger company's? I can help you get set up through one of my two, if you decide they would work for you. ie (not picking on anyone) aol? ibm? Eagel, yes the one page is at freeyellow, but he wants domain so no advertising and his name Company name Some of them are large, some are not so large, but there are a lot of companies, like corporate-hosting and cybervision, which offer hosting but not dial-up access. Yes I see now D yes I hate advertizments on pages, unless they are at the bottom under the info!! I'm thinking of launching a hosting service myself, because there is some money to be made by buying space at reseller priees & then, well, reselling. how much does it cost to get the space to begin with angie? Angie, what does that mean (sorry to be stupid)hosting but not dial-up access and then what do you do after that to host? That's not stupid. I get onto the internet through Netcom. They are my ISP, I have my email with them. But I host my sites with other companies. Netcom gives me some free space, but not much. They charge a bundle for space. Aristotle, an ISP here in Little Rock, gives NO free space, & charges a bundle. Granny I'm looking at info here InterLand, Inc...200MB 134.96 per month. Hey Angie -- did you get the Netcom freebie offer for a CD holder? It's pretty cool!!! LOL I get my space from companies that have their own servers & sell space. I *resell* that space already to my clients, by buying the space I need (say, a virtual domain account) and then charging them for it on a quarterly basis. I get either a discount or a referral fee, & I charge them what they'd pay if they went direct. I got it a dozen times :> Okay I get it. How much space costs depends on how much & where you get it. I can get a 25% discount from one place, only 10% from another place. Granny OLM, 400 MB 49.95 per mo what is OLM so if my isp offers me 10 mg for site, that is good at no extra cost? Corporate-hosting tives me a20% referral fee, per month, on all clients I refer. Which is cool because I host my commerce clients with them at $75 a month. At no cost, 10 mb is good. Milton, Online Marketing Very good. okay I just have to get on them again then they also said that I could put up my commecial site for viewing as soon as I get the site But Granny, can you use that space for commercial? then hopefully my boss will pay to put it on the web they said yes because it is for school also I told them about vu, and they are going to list it as a site to visit Hypermart.com hosts commercial sites for free, you just have to put up with ads.