Johnny Fairplay show Interview JF: Right now we have one-half of the best gimmick out there right now, Headcheese, on the phone we have Al Snow. Al: Hey guys, I?m having a little bit of trouble hearing you, there?s some music playing in the background or something. JF: There we go. Al: Ahhh that's better. JF: Did you not enjoy the Beck (not sure about that). Al: I enjoyed the commercials, they were very good and very informative and now I not only know 4 things about life, I now know 5, thanks to the insurance commercial about not removing a fly from your friends forehead with a hatchet. JF: Perfect, well, maybe if you go back to ECW you can try that. Al: Well, you know.. JF: We are here to educate. Al: That's called getting juiced the hard way. JF: Really the hard way Al: Really the hard way. That's cause I'm hardcore. JF: Definitely, with Foley quote, unquote, retired, and we'll all see where that goes, I mean you would pretty much be the active reigning prince of hardcore, wouldn't you say? Al: I've always been the crown prince, I guess right now I'll take my rightful place as King. JF: Exactly, I would consider you the heir apparent to Mick Foley. Easily. Al: Easily, I just don't have as big an ass. JF: Ohhh how true. Al: If you view Mick walking down the hallway his rear-end looks like 2 hogs fighting over a milkdud. JF: Oh my, this guys shooting like Mick did in his book. Al: ah haha, you gotta take your shots where you can you know? JVD: You should, I got a chance to read the Mick Foley Book, and he rails on you all the time Al: oh I know JF: You do know Al: It's easy to, you know, fight unencumbered. JF: So what, like, I got a chance, I was at Wrestlemania XV last year in Philadelphia, and I was at the Wrestlemania Rage party, it was $86 of the worst money I've ever spent in my entire life, Thank you Chef Boyardee. Al: But you got a lot of neat to eat food stuff. JF: I didn't eat a second of that, are you kidding me? Who wants a vat of ravioli? Al: You gotta feed the need. JVD: They were serving ravioli at the Rage party last year? JF: Oh in vats, in vats. Al: as if it's not good enough in just a small pot, we're gonna make large vats JF: That's probably what killed Big Punisher. Al: could have, could have, I'm sure that's what contributed to Foley's added weight. JF: We love Chef Boyardee, don't get me wrong, a big supporter of the WWF, but too much of a good thing, a vat of anything is not good for you. Al: Yea, vats of anything, basically just the word vat does it. JF: Exactly, unless you're talking about money, a vat of anything is just not good. I mean I drain grease traps in my spare time, but that means nothing. Al: Let's not get into your hobbies again, o.k.? JF: Heaven forbid Al: I'm sure we don't want to know what you use the vats of purloined grease for. JF: Can I have a couple of minutes alone? Al: Hey, no sense in using the Jergan's anymore. Let's just go drain a couple of grease traps, woowooo, party time tonight boys. JF: His gimmick in wrestling wouldn't be head it would be hand. JVD: Really, what does everybody need? Hand! Al: Give this man a hand. JF: So Al: If he'd ever sprain his wrist he'd cut his sex life in half. JF: At the Wrestlemania Rage party last year, I have to say I was disappointed you guys promised, well you didn't promise personally, but the WWF promised signings by all your favorite WWF personalities, and at that time no-one had heard of the Hardy Boys, but at that time I was working with New Dimension Wrestling, and I also got to see the Public enemy to sign autographs, and I got to see Jerry Lawler Al: They're like the 90's Bushwhackers JF: What's that? Al: Like the 90's Bushwhackers. JVD: There ya go.. JF: Very nice, Al shooots on the Fairplay show. JF: that's a perfect analogy, 90's Bushwhackers, so we had who else? Dr. Death and ah, Droz and actually Owen Hart, and that was the highlight, I am very happy to have my own Hart autograph, to go on the record now, but the WWF, they really disappointed, in who they sent out to sign autographs, Al, where were you? Al: I don't know, I don't know, they told me I didn't have to be there. JF: Well, Mick Foley went ahead and took his pot shots at you during that ceremony. Al: I know, I was watching it in our hotel room, and the next thing I know he's doing a five minute stand up routine on me. JF: Exactly Al: And the people actually booed him on a couple of the jokes, and I was like...yea, yea JF: It was like one of those Cornette-type speeches you get into for the first half and then you just give up on it because it's going nowhere. Al: Much like some of his matches. JF: Much like that. Al: hm JVD: Well, we're talking about Mick, how's Mick doing by the way? Is he doing good? Al: yea, I'm very happy for him, I think he made the right decision. JF: Yea. Al: You know, if nothing else to get out of my hair, but personally, I think he was very smart. A lot of guys, you know, would benefit from making a decision like he did. JF: Like Hulk Hogan Rick Flair Al: Oh god yea JF: Or anybody in WCW. JVD: They would do it for different reasons, clearly Mick had health problems Al: Not so much health problems, it just makes sense to get out while you're on top and it, I mean he's financially set, he's not going to have to he could maintain a very very comfortable lifestyle and provide for his family, and not have to go out, this may come to a shock to everybody, but you know, everyone assumes that Mick is the only guy who gets hurt, gets injured in the wrestling business, we all do on a regular basis, and Mick made it his gimmick to tout the injuries and to use them as a medal of honor. The rest of it, everyone else gets just as hurt and just as banged up, just as severely, from the everyday stuff, not just the once every six months bumps. JF: Exactly it's common knowledge that at the least wrestlers have bad knees and bad backs, at the least Al: At the least. At the least. JVD: I gotta ask you this, are you so happy, I mean, Mick is kind of a mark for the business, and I hate to throw that term out there... Al: We all are, anyone that is in the business is the biggest mark of all. JF: But are you so relieved that Mick didn't fulfill his promise that Mick didn't come off the top of the cage onto Hunter? Al: I don't believe that he was ever intending on fulfilling that promise, I think you know, I think the family done what it could to prohibit that from being fulfilled, and I think that Mick himself, well. Collette would have had a fit if he'd have fulfilled that promise, so I don't think that that was going to be the case. JF: That is very good to hear, I mean, I'm a big Mick Foley supporter myself, and I personally I did not want to see that, I mean, there?s no use for it. Al: no, no there was really no use in it the first time, but he did it, and it was a dramatic moment, and it really helped to make that match stand out in people's minds. Unfortunately for him, like I told him one time, and I've told him all along, that you know, it's sad that people are not going to remember him for all the great promos that he did, or some of the really terrific matches that he did, some of the entertaining moments that he's had, the terrific book that he wrote, they are gonna remember him for one bump, and that's it. JF: The promo that you're referring to, we had Bruce Mitchell from the Torch on the Fairplay show quite often, and he kinda takes credit for writing that promo. Al: For writing it? JF: Yea, some of those exact quotes that you said during that promo, were the exact same things that Bruce said in the rebuttal to the Mick Foley book in the Torch. Al: If I can say something? If I can go on the record about Bruce Mitchell, I've never personally met the man JF: O.k., Al: From what I have read, from what he writes and everything, I think that he's a very sad, very lonely very bitter man. JF: That's a shoot actually Al: It is. JF: I mean, I know Bruce personally,.. Al: I've never met him, but I get that impression, he claims that he loves the business, but he goes out of his way at every toss of the coin to belittle it, to beleaguer it, to criticize it and to put it down in every way imaginable. I have read article after article that this man has written, year after year, and the man, the only time I only saw only a hint of a true human being, not the hard shell bitter mutant that he tries to portray was when he wrote an article about my dear good friend Brian Hildebrand and he was exposing the fact that his father had died from cancer, other than that, this man is so judgmental so critical, so biased, so, he can not derive any pleasure from the thing he enjoys simply because it would kill him to say that something was good and that he truly had a good time. You know, he has to just tear it apart, and for Bruce to say for even a second that he wrote that promo, that I said, I didn't write that, I said all of that because I truly meant it, and did not get any of that from him. That he mirrored my opinion, is scary, because I don't want to be considered that because of how bitter he is. JF: I've been good friends with Bruce for quite a while, and uh, like you said, Bruce, Bruce has what he likes, and I think some of the opinions that Bruce has expressed has cost a lot of people their jobs. Al: I don't think it's caused anybody their jobs. I mean, you know, I will state this emphatically, if you buy a ticket or if you buy a pay per view, then your are entitled to express your opinion about my performance. If you say I suck, then you know, that's your opinion. I do not, for an instant, have the audacity that Bruce does on occasion, to believe that you, a fan, and you are, a fan, because you are on the outside of the business, no matter how much you think you are because you are a quote unquote a supposed wrestling journalist, um, you do not know as much as I do because you have not been there, you have not done it, and I'm sure he will take issue with me saying this, but you don't have to know a good movie... Well, you know you're right, again you are entitled to your own opinion to say that you think the movie is bad or whatever, but when you start stating this is what happened and I know it because of this and that, you don't know it because you weren't there and you don't know it because you weren't on the inside, you are speculating and you are voicing your opinion, which opinions everyone has, much like an asshole. JVD: (snickering) much like a cowboy hat? JF: I don't think your opinion is very uncommon among the wrestling community at all Al, would you say that by and large most of the quote unquote wrestling journalists are cynical like that? Al: Sure, sure, and you know why? It's simply because like the old adage, familiarity breeds contempt. The more familiar you become with something, the more contemptuous you become of it, because you expect more. When you first become enamored with something,, um, you know, it's the honeymoon period, and nothing can go wrong. The more you get to know, then the more contemptuous you become, you have more and more expectations, because all the other ones have already been met. JF: is there anyone who writes that you have any respect for? Al: Oh I have respect for Bruce Mitchell, it's just that in some ways I actually pity him. I really pity him because I get a sense that the one thing that he seems to have a hobby of, he and some kind of interest in, he can't seem to let himself enjoy it. And that's too bad for him. JF: Let's talk about enjoyment for a second. The past year had probably been in a lot of ways kinda turbulent for you. I mean, you've seen Mankind retire, you were in the center of the HEAD, was it Wal-mart or K-mart, controversy, it's kinda been rather an unusual year for you hasn't it? Al: Well, it's been pretty much par for the course, for my career I think, you know? JF: you know we found out you were gonna be on the show, and we were thrilled to have you, we are talking with WWF Superstar Al Snow here, in case you are just joining us on the Fairplay show Al: And for anyone who doesn't happen to know JF: Well some of those people tune in and out on the radio, that's all Al: I know. JF: But what I wanted to know was, I mean Al Snow, here's a guy who we heard about and heard about, you know living up here in this area, we don't get to see a lot of independent shows, and hardly any independent tv shows, how long were you in the independents. Seems as though you were the king of the independents like forever. JVD: The King Al: I was Caesar JF: Exactly JVD: And you never were in Portland, what's up Al? Al: Well, you know, I don't know, it was like maybe a good thirteen years, twelve or thirteen years before I got my JF: O.k., here's a guy who's spent thirteen years busting his ass, and who had more talent on the mic and more talent in the ring than ninety-five percent of the guys that were in the big two, never got a break, and JR always talks about Stone Cold Steve Austin and his eight year path to destiny, and all of that stuff, but they can't hold a candle to you and all the struggles that you had to deal with over the years. I mean, were there times when you wanted to quit? Al: Oh sure, there were times when I thought, you know, one more time and I'm taking up the professional bowling circuit. JVD: One more gimmick. Al: And you know, I'm heading for golf, dammit., but there were times, there were plenty of times, but I knew eventually that in time it would come. It was gonna happen, in time I guess, I was either gonna do it or die. JF: And when you finally did it, it was as Lief Cassidy, can you talk a little bit about Lief Cassidy? Al: Oh yea, sure. Well it was initially Avatar JF: Oh yea, right of course. Of course. Al: Or as I referred to it, my eight month hiatus from wrestling. Where I got to stay home for eight months and starve. JF: I just now remember, you walked into the center of the ring. There was no promotional videos, there.... Al; there was nothing, which was what I was told the exact story which was basically what they did with Glacier in WCW, was exactly what was described to me before that gimmick ever came around that they were gonna do with the Avatar gimmick. But then I was just thrown out there live on Raw when I didn't even expect it in an outfit that I'd never even done. You know, BAM, like that. Sink or swim, and then I sat at home for eight months. At that time if you didn't work, you didn't get paid, and then I was given the Lief Cassidy gimmick JF: didn't you do Shinobi as well? Al: I did Shinobi one time against Shawn Michaels, one night against Ahmed Johnson and I guess Shawn Michaels. JVD: did you get hurt against Ahmed? Al: Well, I always got hurt against Ahmed. And then... JF: Big T Al: (imitating) Get on over here JF: You need to give him a call, the master of all gimmicks, you need to give Big T a call. Al: Oh yea, how to go out of the business and come back in about 500 pounds heavier. I dare him to... JF: He's been working out. Al: yeaaa, he's been working out. Working that table muscle. JF: There's probably a lot of guys on the independent circuit who are feeling a lot like how you felt, I mean couldn't get your break, couldn't get your break, and you know a guy like Tony Norris was able to walk in and keep himself completely I mean he's in horrible shape. Al: Oh sure... JF: Even when he was quote unquote in shape, you know, who's to say what kind of work ethic he had, but I mean they've got to be feeling a lot of frustration here they are bustin their asses every night Al: And then to see guys like that every night. JF: Exactly. Al: Yea, that's one of the major negatives of the business, is to watch guys like that continually get a break, I mean it's heartbreaking. It really is. JVD: Speaking about guys like that that get the breaks, Let's talk about Sid Vicious and his cat-like punches. Al: Oh yea, the cat like agility? JF: The cat-like punches. Al: Oh the clawing. JF: Like he's swatting at a toy. Al: Yes, yes, yes, as if he's taken a good shot of catnip before he went to the ring? JVD: Maybe so. Al: I would hope that would be the excuse, because otherwise it just means he sucks. JF: What do you think about the WCW world champion? Al: Basically, I think it's a joke. Nothing personal against Sid, but he's a proven ratings killer. JF: Well, he's the smartest man. We had him on the show and he told me "he's the smartest man in the business" Al: Damn right he is, he's actually convinced people that he can work. JF: This is what he told me. When I had him on the show it was when Benoit was in WCW and I asked him what he thought of some of the greatest workers in the business like Benoit and Malenko, and he's like "Johhny Fairplay, you don't understand what it is to be a worker". Al: That's right. JF: "A worker is a guy that puts asses in seats, I'm a worker, Hulk Hogan's a worker". Al: Yea. He's worked the promotion JF: Yes he has. Al: But as far as putting asses in seats, he doesn't. JF: Well, he puts all those comp asses in seats Al: Well yea, but WCW is going to continue, as long as you keep the same people in charge, they are going to keep making the same mistakes. Why? I mean that's just Business 101, and not wrestling business, I mean it's common sense, I mean if ratings and buy rates etc. were in the negative before when these same people were running the show, then why put them back in charge again? They have a track record, a proven track record of failure. So why continue to put them in the drivers seat to fail again? JF: Well Kevin Sullivan knows how to push Prince Aikai (sp? never paid enough attention to him myself), I mean, come on. Al: Oh, o.k., well...there ya go... JF: What's your point Al? Al: Well, you know, I've learned four things in my life. Do you guys want to hear them? JF: Well, actually five counting the Al: Yes, five counting the hatchet to your friends face to swat a fly, yes. But I've actually learned four important things. JF: Give them to us Al. Al: And I will put this out to you guys, Johnny Fairplay, and big Perv, we won't discuss your other nickname. and to also put it out there to the wrestling fans, that benefit from my nearly eighteen years in the wrestling business. O.k.? One: You can not outrun a pitbull, only if it has three legs. Two: you can not make somebody love you. You can always stalk them and hope that they give in soon, and Three: If someone breaks into your hotel room and steals all your possessions except your toothbrush and camera, don't brush your teeth. JF: That, that's a shoot. Al: Four: most importantly, if you ever get lonely, make sure you write this down guys, JF: Got my pencil ready. Al: And I know Big Perv, you've probably already done this. JF: Big Perv isn't here, I'm Jim man, Al: Oh, well, Jim, I'm sure you have probably done it too. JVD: I don't know what you are talking about. Al: I can feel it, I can sense it. I know you and I have a compatico going on here. If you ever get lonely, sprinkle a little salt on your ass and take a trip to the petting zoo. The animals don't complain, they have a good time JF: That's how Pepe came about. Al: It's like you get to play salt lick. JF: Sounds like fun to me. Al: And believe me, some of the sweaters you can pick up. JVD: This is the smartest man in the wrestling business, by the way, Al Snow of the WWF. Al: Hey, that's the stuff I've learned, so. JF: Well...I'll keep those in mind Al. Al: O.k.. Benefit from my wisdom. JF: Now you've talked about the differences between you and us, with you being in the business, and definitely having more background and experience than we do, let's flip the coin right now and talk about WCW. That's a dog that gets kicked every day. Al: Right. JF: Now, here's my thought, and I'll admit, I'm completely outside and I don't know crap, but with all due respect to you I want to ask this question. Is the WWF getting too big? Could you see a point where, right now people in WCW trying to protect their spots, and have tried to protect their spots in the past, and that has hurt the promotion. Al: Right. JF: Are you, when you have some major mainstream stars, and you have many of them right now, I mean, right now the WWF?s talent roster is clearly the deepest that it has ever been. Al: Right. JF: And you guys are doing, you know, it's bigger than ever JVD: Even Blackman got over. JF: Can it, and we'll talk about that in a second, but we'll definitely get to that in a second the HEADcheeze and Al Snow at Wrestlemania, I want to find out what that is, is, can the same thing that happened to WCW happen to the WWF? Al: Um, in a lot of ways, yes, the possibilities are always there. I mean it is basically an entertainment industry, which is of course based upon ego and so on, and yea, those things, the factors are there. But, the likelihood probably not. The reason why, a lot of that talent that you are talking about, the depth and everything, consists of a lot of young guys that really have great attitudes as far as being thrilled to be there. Being excited to be a part of it in any form or fashion. Of course jealousy and everything rears its ugly head all the time, but a lot of the guys that have had eight years in the business struggling and fighting and have gotten the break like Edge and Val Venis, and Scotty Too Hotty, god, Rikishi, he's been around the loop, you know. JF: yea, definitely. Al: Those guys are, you know, they've all been around and they appreciate what they are getting. As long as business is good and everybody is making good money, then you aren't gonna have that then. That's what is strange about WCW, they are fighting for a spot, and the position, well, solely based upon nothing more than ego. Some of those guys are making an incredible amount, it's stupid, stupid money. I mean it's great the guys are getting it, and God bless them, I mean that's fantastic, but to make $500,000 a year and go you know what, this company is crapping all over me? I think you've lost a little bit of perspective. If that's crapping all over ya, then hey, get the shovel and dump it on me. JF: You want some of that half million dollar crap. Al: Oh man, get to dumpin? the poo. You talk about these guys that are working the independents, and making twenty-five or fifty or a hundred bucks a night, driving 3, 4, 5 hours, and getting to do what it is that we love to do maybe once or twice a month, or if they are lucky in a good month, 4 or 5 times a month. I mean that sucks, and walking around in the general public and nobody even knowing that these guys are even out there bustin their hump wrestling and could care less, and the perks, having someone come up to you and say, "Hey, you're Johnny (unintelligible), and I saw you on tv. These guys aren't getting that, you know, they are just getting out there and doing it because they love it. They're not getting any money and they're not getting any fame. So you know, if these guys in WCW think they are getting crapped on, then quit. Go work in the independents. JVD: I've been working the independents the last three years now, Al, and I'll tell you what, I've been fortunate enough to have been blessed with this radio show here, and being with the 2x Zone, but other than that, you're right, twenty-five or fifty bucks a night and driving, I've driven five hours Al: Yea, yea, and then turn around and drive the five hours right back. Any maybe, because business is up, maybe there might be five hundred to a thousand people there to actually witness you perform and they are there and granted they are having a good time, but they are going to have a good time whether you are having a good match or not. Whether that means they are going to heckle you, or whatever. You are going to go out there and just kill yourself to do what you love to do, in the hopes that some day it will pay off and then you'll get all the other things that you wanted, which of course is the same three goals as what everybody has and that's make a decent amount of money, have memorable matches, and make some mark on the wrestling business and achieve some sort of immortality. JF: And to be a human salt lick. Al: Oh that, THAT has always been my goal. JVD: Yea, you know, I've been doing the sport, and you know, and when I was living on the east coast, I lived in Washington D.C., and working matches in like, Greensboro North Carolina, the wrestling Mecca, you know, as opposed to Portland, Oregon, Al: Hahaha JVD: But uh, I work matches there, and you know, when I first started I was getting like, fifty bucks a shot, and you know, a five hour drive down and back, I was spending more on gas than I was making just to get those tapes to send to you guys in the WWF, and to send to WCW and, what do I have to show for it? A bunch of miles on my car. Al: But you know, you do it because you love it JVD: Exactly. I wouldn't have given up any single minute of that ten hours of driving every single time. Al: Don't get me wrong though, there are times when I complain and grouse, and everything like that, but you know, there are just as many times that I sit back and take stock of what I'm doing and what I have and just how fortunate I am that I finally did get a break, I mean, it could have just went the opposite way and I still could be doing exactly what I had been doing. Which was working in obscurity. So I'm very thankful. JF: Is what you have now, and the position you are in now, is that what you've dreamed of when you were in, as you say, obscurity? Al: Um, in some regards, yes, sure it is because I'm making a decent living and I'm in a position of a national spotlight, and people recognize me and all that, but I still have those three basic goals, and that's to make as much money as I can, and to have those matches that people will always remember, and I think I have achieved that goal in some points in my career. And I want to leave my mark, I want to achieve some sort of immortality. Until I do those things, I think I've done them on certain levels, but I haven't done it on this level yet. Eventually I will do it on this level. I think. JF: So speaking of happiness, you've finally come to something with bringing Mr. who I used to call on the Fairplay show, Mr. Monday Night Football, Steve Blackman, because whenever he was on tv, I?d turn to Monday Night Football Al: Captain Charisma? JF: Captain Charisma (laughing) Al: The Lethal Personality because he can kill an audience reaction. JVD: Do you like Mr. Monday Night Football? Al: Oh, you know, I like Steve, he's a great guy. He is exactly what you see on tv though. He does have a sense of humor, but it's a very dry sense of humor. But what I do on tv with him is exactly what I've been doing with him in the locker room for months. Just picking with him and joking with him. JF: Did you ever think the Headcheese gimmick would come to what it has? Al: um, actually, yea. JF: Yea? Al: Because ... JF: Because you're so over already? Al: (laughing) no, NO! No it was my idea at one point when... JVD: But you felt snowbunnies would get over too. Al: That too, yes. JF: My favorite was snow balls, by the way. Al: You liked snow balls? JF: I liked snow balls. JVD: You needed to bring in Balls Mahoney for that though. You'd need to bring a C-4, because when you don't work out, C-4 will get you over. Al: That's right. It was my idea to put Blackman with me. I told them I'll make him not having a personality be his personality, and I said we can have some fun. JF: Al, what's the deal with the Jake Roberts tights you're sportin now? What do they say on the back? Al: The Jake Roberts tights? JF: They look like the old Jake Roberts tights. Al: Oh man... JF: What do they say on the back? Al: I thought that that was an improvement... JVD: That's hurt-ing dude. Al: what? JVD: Your tights are hurt-ing. I mean if you want to shoot on the Fairplay show, we'll shoot, you got some Jake Roberts tights going on. Al: oh MAN! JF: What do they say on the back? JVD: Yea, we can never read what they say. Al: They say cometh. C-o-m-e-t-h. Like you know... JVD: Like the ice-man cometh? JF: Cometh as in Dean Malenko? Al: yea, well actually there is a serial killer known as the ice-man, and that was originally what the character was supposed to be I was supposed to be like a serial killer. And so I put cometh on the back of my tights, and I just got a new pair of tights... JF: Are they Jake Roberts style? Al: No, I didn't think they were Jake Roberts style. JF: Can you see what we?re talking about ? If you think about it, can you see it? Al: Yes, I can see it. I don't have a body like Jake Roberts, thank God. JF: So what are the new tights like? Al: Well, you know they've... JVD: Mideon, Mideon picked them out for him. Al: yea, yea, Mideon picked them out for me. They've got a melted snowman face on one side. JF: Is that, do they really? Al: Yea. JF: Oh, o.k., I didn't know if you were, if that was a rib or not. Al: no... no. To be honest, the whole deal with the tights, so people know since we're shooting quote unquote, is that the seamstresses, or the original seamstress, that they had there JF: the Hardy Boyz? Al: Well, yea before they started wrestling, but the actual seamstress, gave me an idea. The singlet that I had in ECW, I had that made by a lady in my home town, I went to the WWF, and I asked for a new singlet which I got that Job Squad singlet. I asked for it in September when I first got there, and I got it at Wrestlemania. O.k.? Now, now, hold on now, JVD: Yea, and you got your music shortly afterwards. Al: I got the second singlet four months later, o.k.? Then they had nothing until..ohhh...I'd say, well, I asked for a new outfit in September of last year, then when I was doing, so you have an idea of a time line, when I started doing the things with the Rock, and they said, get out of the Job Squad singlet, we don't want you in the Job Squad stuff anymore. So I said, well, I've been asking and Shane McMahon himself went to the seamstress, the old seamstress, and she says, o.k., I'll come up with something, and that began what I like to call the thousand piece jigsaw puzzle. The black singlet that after months of showing up on Monday and wearing it on tv, giving it back to her, showing up on Tuesday, getting it wearing it, giving it back to her, coming back next Monday, same thing, I got white trim around the legs, and that was it. So I was going out there looking like an independent worker, while everybody else had all these ornate looking tights. JVD: But you finally got the Jake Roberts look down. Al: And then I got the Jake Roberts look because Yolonda Warren, a lady who had just started saw the pradicament I and said "Hey, I'll try to make something" and I said o.k., and uh, my name's Snow and so on and so she came up with that, so that was it. JF: See, that's pretty cool Al, let's see if we can bring up the kings of the Fairplay show, the callers, are you there man? Caller: Hey Johhny, JVD buddy, what?' up? JF: Not much, hey, you gotta question for Al Snow? Caller: Well, I just wanted to make sure, that, what you got on the back of your tights, that's not a sexual reference is it? Al: Uh, no. It is not a sexual reference. Caller: I'm sorry. I'm got confused, sorry about that. Al: That's o.k. I can understand since you are up there lonely and by yourself and he's probably taken my advice to heart about the salt lick thing. Caller: Anyway, um (pause w/uncomfortable chuckling). JVD: I think he missed the salt lick joke. Al: Oh. Go ahead. Caller: well,I don't know if you guys touched on this or not, but would you consider going back to ECW? Al: Uh, I couldn't hear the question. JF: He wants to know if you'd consider going back to ECW? Al: oh, consider? Yea, I would consider going back there eventually, if the situation was right, and yea, why not? I loved it there. Caller: do you feel any kind of unrewarded or anything, you know, for your creativity and your talent, your obvious talent? Al: At times, sure, there are times that I think I could be utilitzed better, which of course I'm sure everybody does(ed. note: That is why the Job Squad will never die), more things could be done with me, or you know... JF: Could you talk about the things you'd like to do? Al: Oh any number of things, I guess I feel like my role, I feel the company sees me as far as tiers are concerned, I'm kinda like a third tier guy, and no matter what I do, no matter how much I get over on my own, because basically they don't do a whole lot to get me over, they've not really put the machine behind me, in the respect that they have some other guys to make me. So I continually try to reinvent myself, and I continually do things to be entertaining and to get myself over, and I come up with ideas on my own to do it. I would like for them to try to instigate things, you know. To put the machine behind me a little bit sometimes, give me a helping hand. JF: What other things do you think about doing? We've seen Al Snow as sort of a comedy wrestler, we've seen Al Snow as a technician, we've seen Al Snow as sort of a sinister, you know, someone who's off their, someone who's been pushed too far over the line, sort of a psychopath character, what other directions could Al Snow go? JVD: Don't forget hardcore. JF: Yes, we've seen that too. Al: Basically, because I think historically with my character and so on, I've demonstrated, and taught the fans to expect that I can do absolutely anything. I think that, you know, there was talk of me one time of controlling the swarm, which basically thirty midgets that I would direct to attack people. JF: Ha, that's funny. JVD: Are you serious? Was that... can we expect thirty midgets to come down into the ring with the Headcheese gimmick? Al: uh, probably not with the Headcheese gimmick. JVD: aw, that would be so awesome. Al: but someday, someday I'm sure... I mean, could Rocky do that? No. Could Hunter? Even Mick Foley? Although I think Mick could probably get away with it. JF: The Mean Street Posse would. Al: I don't even know if the Mean Street Posse could do it. JVD: Well, they need to do something. Al: But I could do it and people would go, people would go hmm, well that makes sense for him. I've done just about anything, you name it, in wrestling. I have done more unusual things that anybody else. I mean, I've been the first guy to ever wrestle himself. I was the first guy to wrestle myself in a hardcore match. I've wrestled inanimate objects, I have wrestled a hardcore match in a dress. And I had a hardcore match with four midgets. JF: Wait a minute, whoa, didn't Flair wrestle himself first? I mean... Al: I don't think so. JVD: I think we need to check the timeline here Al, it was pretty, remember the little tirade he did? Dropping elbows on himself? Al: He was dropping elbows on a coat! JVD: Well, aw, o.k. Al: and that was during a promo. I actually had a scheduled match. JVD: O.k., I'll give you credit then, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to challenge you there. Al: I think, you know, I think I beat everyone else to the punch as far as that's concerned. JF: how long do you see the Headcheese gimmick going? Al: I don't know, I mean, as long as it's entertaining and as long as we can continue to come up with an actual direction for it. The Headcheese gimmick, everyone keeps referring to it as the Headcheese gimmick, but it's about me doing silly things to try to create a personality for him and him doing his bland, dry reaction to them. And so, as long as we can continue to have some kind of direction as far as that's concerned, I'm sure that we can continue it. And believe me, I think we've got a lot of plans for that, so JVD: The rumors on the net, are that the Headch-, um, you guy, Headcheese collectively are going to be broken up, and that Jim Cornette is coming in to manage you, just you. Al: I just heard that today too. JF: Well, spill the beans, here on the Fairplay show. Al: I, I find that hard to believe. For several reasons, one of them On is I think Jim Cornette is very happy right where he is at, but if that would happen, I would be thrilled because, I, to me it would mean a lot, because I'm a mark still for Cornette. And I think he's a terrific performer and I think we could do a lot of great stuff, number one. But, to offset that, I , you usually put a manager with somebody because they can't talk for themselves. JF: Exactly. Al: And I think I can talk pretty well, and three, Steve Blackman, and no offense to him, and not putting myself over, but Steve needs me like he needs a crutch. I mean, he definitely needs me. JVD: Mr. Monday Night Football. Al: I mean, if I'm not out there with him, and again, I'm not bragging, I'm not boasting, I'm not putting myself over, but if I'm not part of the mix with Steve, then we're right back to... JF: Square one. Al: yeah. Right back to square one with Steve. JF: Do you think , I mean what could Steve... Al: I mean they may, the office, they may think it's all Steve, or they may believe that he can carry it on his own after a period of time, but I don't believe... JF: That's a nice new finish that Steve added on Smackdown. The kick off the top, I mean it looked like Jeff took one of the bigger bumps he's taken in the WWF since working a program with the Acolytes . Al: Hahahaha, yeah. Yeah, it's an impressive move. JF: Where do you think Steve Blackman would go? How could this gimmick elevate Steve Blackman as far as eventually you guys are going to have to break off, and he's gonna have to stand on his own at some point. Al: Right JF: What could Blackman do? Al: I have no idea. JF: No idea. We haven't gotten that far ahead? Al: If he could carry it off, the obvious thing would be for him to become Mr. Personality. And for it to go to his head and he could become Hollywood, and turn the tables so to speak on me, and become so overblown. JVD: And you'd get sick of it. Al: And I would get tired of it and then it would become the opposite. JVD: That's where Canyon comes in. Al: huh? JVD: That's where Canyon comes in, and becomes his new partner. Al: Right. But I don't know if he could do it or not. I really don't. JF: We'll see what happens. What about Wrestlemania, are you guys gonna be at Wrestlemania? Al: I have no idea. JF: no idea yet? Al: no. JVD: They're gonna be there. Are you kidding me? You are talking to a WWF Superstar, dude. JF: Well I know that, JVD: He's not going to be on Heat! He wants the big check. JF: In what capacity, that's what I wanted to know. Al: In what capacity? God knows. JVD: Main event. Main event. It's gonna turn into a four corners match. Al: Yep. And all of a sudden I woke up and I stopped dreaming. I really don't know. Personaly I don't see us being in Wrestlemania because unless they throw the old tag team battle royale out there or something which would be extremely disapointing. JVD: Two years in a row. Al: Well, not two years in a row for me. I mean, I?ve skipped a year. JVD (inaudible) tag team battle royale. Two years in a row. Al: yeah, yeah. JVD: The Hardy Boyz lost their big share of their first Wrestlemania paycheck by being caught on Heat in the tag team battle royale last year. Al: Right, and I believe that may be the only slot, because they don't have any true plans for us right now. They didn't prior to me being put on the disabled list. And I'm sure now with me being out they're probably not going to do anything. JF: Right. We're talking with Al Snow, WWF Superstar, and if you follow wrestling, you know who Al is, we don't need to ... Al: And if you don't, give me a call, I'll stop by your house. (Laughter) JF: Sounds good, Sounds good. JVD: Sleep with your wife. Just introduce yourself formally. JF: Or informally. Al Snow was the wrestler that was involved in, was it Wal-mart, was it K-mart Al? Al: It was Wal-mart. JF: It was Walmart, o.k., I do a talk show here in Portland which deals with a lot of different issues, and we covered the Al Snow situation, and I tried to explain to people that it had nothing to do with battered women, it had nothing to do with abusing women in any way shape or form. What it had to do with, it was an oral sex joke, if you want to be offended. Al: Actually it had, yeah, for those that really want to know, it doesn't even have anythign to do with that. JVD: I wondered if it had to do with a mid-life crisis, as we stated earlier on the Fairplay show, JF: I thought it had something to do with who do you have to give head to? Did I, explain this head gimmick then Al. Al: O.k., um, when I had initially started doing that "what does everybody want? What does everybody need? Waht does everybody love?" I did it as a way to add depth to the character. The whole basis for the character is of a guy who has spent all his time trying to achieve a goal, basically has a nervous breakdown, begins to hear voices, but figures that he's normal, and he attributes everything, the sickness or whatever, to an inanimate object, the HEAD. So, everything bad that happens, everything good that happens, are all attributed to the HEAD. So, when I went out there and said, what does everybody want, what does everybody need, what does everybody love I did that understanding one, people are gonna go, the adults, you gotta understand that the adults understand it one way, and the chidlren understand it another. The children actually knew what I was talking about, because they took it on the basis of what I meant. JVD: they are smart. Al: Well, no, what it did, basically very innocently, the adults take it as a double entendre, because they know what head means, other than a skull. So I knew that they'd think that was funny, but I also meant it in the long run down the road, if they'd have ever explored that option that I was gonna eventually, as time went by, start resenting the fact that everybody wanted that plastic head, and everybody needed that plastic head, and everybody loved that plastic head, but nobody cared about me, until the plastic head came around. Nobody chanted my name, and nobody carried styrofoam Al Snow's into the building, it was all about the plastic head. I was going to end up doing exactly what I did and that was having matches with the plastic head. That's why I started doing that what does everybody want, what does everybody need. I do a lot of things to create questions in peoples? minds and to create interest, and that may seem very simple, but actually to have some kind of meaning. I wrote the love/hate thing on my hands, the only reason I did that was to get people to go "hey, what's that on his hands? Oh, love hate, what the hell does that mean? Why is it written backwards?" Same thing with the Help Me on the forehead and the Help Me on the doll's head. It was the same thing, it created questions, it created interest, because why do you watch a movie, why do you read a book? Because you have questions and you need to get them answered. That way you are now entertained, because you don?' know what I'm up to, or why I'm doing it. You don?t understand all my motivations. That's why I put the cometh on the ass of my tights. Not because some man put it there. JVD: And not because it was something Jake Roberts would do. Al: and not because Jake Roberts told me to do it. But because actually, it's again, you guys go,hey, what's that on the back of his tights? Why does he got it there? You know, because it always creates a question and it makes it interesting. And it makes people pay attention to you. That's how you get noticed. It?' because people have a question about what you're doing and why you're doing it. So they want to see more of you to try to figure it out, if you do it the right way, which my track record shows that I pretty much keep doing it the right way. To a degree, anyways. Um, so it was not about oral sex, it was about, it was honestly about that plastic head. People took the double entendre and found it entertaining, and they found it funny, but then they just attributed it to that was the only reason it was being done, was for the double entendre sake, and it wasn't. It was not about abuse of women, because I have never, ever referred to that mannequins head as anythign but androgenous. JF: Yeah, the HEAD even has a sort of androgenous look to it. Al: That's right, I purposely erased all the makeup off the HEAD to make it look that way. So it looks kinda male, kinda female. And I refer to it as a they or them, because I say it has multiple personalities, whcih of course I said that for a reason, because down the road I could always bring out a different HEAD that had something else stated on the forehead, which would represent a differnent personality i.e., when I got the HEAD back and I brought out the Fear Me HEAD. JF: I was there, I was there the night you got the blood bath. Al: Right. JF: Fourth row, you did it right in front of me. Al: and the very next week I brought out the Fear Me HEAD. JVD: Did you do it for Jim? Was that Al: What's that? JF: I was the only guy, I had to leave the Spokane Arena that night when you were doing your head butt and chant head head head when you were doing the head butt. I was there for you man. Al: All right man. JF: Did you ever get a chance to try to explain to some of your detractors about the head gimmick? Did you ever get the chance to explain to them, did any of them ever understand? Al: No. I mean nobody's ever asked. They've all just made assumptions, and basically that was what started the whole Wal-mart incident, was two women, and this is so sad, these are two learned, supposed learned women, assistant professors of communications of all things God help them, who expounded their opinion about my character in a public forum, based upon nothing but assumptions and conclusions that they drew from a picture on a package. JVD: Exactly. Al: That was it. They state that in their letter that they did this based upon the pictures off the package. Nothing, no research, no looking into the background of the character, no watching the show, nothing other than we'll write a letter and complain about something in a national forum, or you know, a major newspaper, based upon our assumption. And we are assistant professors of communications. I hope to God that they are not teaching their students this stuff, and that's ridiculous, I mean, I even wrote a Thank You letter which they published in WWF magazine or something, to these women and stated that if I'm not wrong, that was how the Salem Witch Trials started. JF: Actually you made a lot of money on e-bay, well you not personally. Al: Yeah, I didn't make it, but you know, I'm thankful and grateful to these women that they did it. I became a national news event, Wolf Blitzer was riding around in the back seat of my car. JVD: Are they professors at Oral Roberts University? No pun intended. Al: Yeah, no fun intended. JF: Hey next time you get a chance Al, could you get Wolf Blitzer a personality? Al: I'm working on that along with Steve Blackman. JF: Well, before we go we do a little thing here on the Fairplay show where I throw out a couple of guys names and you give me a quick reaction. Al: I'll try to. JF: O.k., first name I gotta throw out there is Sting from WCW. Al: I think the Sting gimmick as it is, uh, the day in the sun has um, set. JF: Thank you. Al: I think he needs to reinvent himself. JF: O.k., another name to throw out there, formerly in the WWF now with WCW, well, with the WWF, then WCW and I could go on forever, Jeff Jarrett. Al: Blase double J. JF: Blase? Oh my God. Al: but he's kinda gotten a little bit of a personality doing what he did. JVD: For once. Al: The WCW machine was kinda behind him and he was really starting to get over and had a little bit of momentum behind him. JF: Takes a little Russo to get over, know what I'm saying? Al: I don't know, sometimes. JF: That's a good name, let's do that, Vince Russo. Al: Vince Russo? Got a little too big for his britches, but was not truly given an adequate chance and panicked when given the helm of WCW and was sabatoged by politics. People don't realize that you just don't turn a ship that big around in six months, I mean, for God's sake, remember when WCW was kickin? WWF's butt. It took Vince Russo in combination with Vince McMahon and Steve Austin, still a year to catch up with WCW, and then pass them. JF: He wasn't even given six months in WCW. Al: He wasn't even given three months. JVD: Three months and Kevin Sullivan just gotten (unintelligible) so much that that was it. JF: Do people in your locker room feel sorry at all for Vince Russo? Al: Not at all. JF: good. Al: I mean that. I understand some of his motivations. JF: Is he a joke? Al: Um, no, I mean we don't, he's not even a factor. JF: He's forgotten, what, two weeks later? Al: about a month later really. I mean, he wasn't even a factor. JF: O.k., another name to throw out there, well, two more names out of WCW, lets throw out 3 Count Al: 3 Count? JF: Yeah. Al: Uh, no really no reaction at all, and basically probably from the fans too. JF: Oh no, I didn't, I think that's one of the more positive things that they've got going for them right now in WCW. Al: really. JF: Yeah! Al: I, I, JF: Well, it's original, I mean Al: Well, I haven't seen it enough to really know, so I could'nt say. JF: And a guy that'll be the first to tell you how good he is, Vampiro. Al: aaah, from what I've seen, and it could be either because of his utilization in WCW, or basically it could be because of what I've assumed, which is basically he's a, I can't think of the word right now, got a bigger rap than what he had, what he could keep up. You know, I heard, kinda like the Conan thing, from Mexico when he was "it". He just was terrific, he was all about it, and then I saw him and I thought man, that guy's overrated. JF: yup. Al: And Vampiro I think is kind of the same thing. JF: That's a good analogy with Conan. Al: highly overrated, but then again that could be because of how WCW is using him. You gotta keep in mind , you gotta keep this in mind, the guy, a guy could, other than Sid, but even Sid is a good example of this, back in his day in WWF, guys like yourselves thought he was pretty cool. JF: Nahh I didn't... I got to admit this, when I was a young Fairplay, I did mark out for the Warrior, at age eight. Al: and why? Because the machine was behind him, and anybody with the machine behind him can be gotten over. JF: That's true, that's so scary I can't believe Al: And, that guy with the machine behind him can have his day in the sun even if he doesn't really deserve it. I, Ahmed Johnson... JF: Oh here it is.. O.k, before we go Al, who's the biggest wrestler influence on your career? Al: gosh, I have literally tons. Literally. I mean I try to draw influences from everywhere, so I can try to be as flexible and creative as possible. JF: Alex Porto? Al: Wha, without a doubt! The Pug, definitely. And the Goon too. JF: How about growing up? Who was your favorite wrestler? Al: Oh growing up there was like, Pimpero Fopero(sp?), there was Bo Curry JVD: You liked the hairy wreslters. Like the guy with the big fro and the guy with eyebrow.. JF: it's a fetish. Al: it was a fetish, you know, I thought about shaving them down and knitting myself a nice rug JF: there ya go. Al: Al Costello and Don Kent I loved, you know, JF: Oh the Kangaroos. Al: Russ Thornton, I really liked a lot of the technical wreslters, but then again I liked, like Austin Idol and guys like that. JF: Brooklyn Brawler, master of the go behind. Al: that and the figure four fudgelock. JF: Oh ho ho, Al does shoot on the Johnny Fairplay show. Al: haha. JVD: All right Al, the last name we are going to throw out there for ya, Al Snow. Al: God knows what's gonna happen tomorrow. JF: What's gonna happen tomorrow? Al: I mean seriously, I don't have a clue where my career is going to take me. JVD: No where but up, I mean Al: I hope so. JVD: You are, you have more than established yourself, all the fans love you, I mean, I'll tell you what, to be thrown into a heel spot and to be thrown back to face without even doing anything, I mean, we all love you out here. Al: I appreciate it, I really do. JF: Well, that's gonna do it for this weeks Johnny Fairplay show. Thank you to Al Snow, you were a fantastic interview. (They applaud). Al: Thank you, thank you. Please throw money. JF: Hopefully you'll be, you know, in that machine real soon and they'll be spitting you out right back at us. JVD: Exactly. WCW World Champion. Al: Hey, if they don't I've always got a bottle of salt. JF: O.k., we'll see ya next week here on the Fairplay show, thank you to guy talk 1010 and also 2xZone.com. Credit for this transcript goes to HEAD staff member Maggie-O