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BUYING WISDOM

TIPS FOR BUYERS

CAVEAT EMPTOR

FROM OVER 30 YEARS IN THE HOBBY BUSINESS
AND OVER 60 YEARS IN MODEL RAILROADING

Last update November 3, 2001.


TOPICS


OVERVIEW

This treatise has been inspired by some of the shoddy, insulting, abusive and even threatening treatment I have received while dealing on line. By sharing knowledge and experience , it may help us all improve our transactions and relationships. Many of the statements included will be controversial and irritating to some readers, but after over 3 years of buying and selling on the web, many seemingly unfair practices have irked me.

Although some may be derived from ignorance and honest mistakes, others seem to be instigated by greed and sham. Some may be from total inconsideration of the rights of others, immaturity or belligerence . Only by being aware of your rights and having knowledge of the situation can you avoid the pitfalls. Many possibilities may be absent due to limited observation, since my buying is usually in HO model railroad and computer items. However many points apply to other areas.

It should be pointed out, that there is a nebulous division among buyers. Investing collectors tend to stress that boxes and contents be as close to original condition as possible. Whereas modellers tend to stress the model's or kit's potential as a believable adjunct to his layout, display or diorama, thus excluding the box or originality as part of the value. Since I fall in the latter group, the discussion will probably be biased in that direction.

The major goal is to help the buyer obtain a fair deal through enlightenment. As an adjunct to this, shipping over-charges will be stressed heavily. Once aware of the facts you may want to join the crusade to inform sellers of your right to choose and ask them to comply. If you are refused by the greedy, tell them you can not justify paying the exorbitant charge and will not buy or bid. If enough of us participate, maybe we can coerce them to be fair and eliminate the unwarranted practice.

Before participating in any deal, fully understand the risks. Read and digest the rules, to avoid disappointments and misunderstandings.


VALUE

Before committing yourself and money to a deal, realize that only you can determine the actual value and worth of an item to YOU. But also realize that any additional costs such as shipping, handling, insurance, money orders and taxes are part of the total cost. An item with a $100 price or bid and $25 in add-ons is really a $125 item. Subtract the add-ons from your maximum value to determine your maximum offer. Remember the seller has determined his price from the minimum value he has set plus his listing and commission fees, if any.

Since most items on the net are available for a time, use some to research and compare prices. Sources will vary with the category, but old or current magazines, catalogs, price lists etc. are a good start. Search the web for other listings. Try some of the newer auctions, where listing fees and even commissions are waved as an incentive to attract sellers. This may permit lower offer prices.

Many sellers add exorbitant costs to increase their gains, mostly in shipping. They hope the over zealous buyer will overlook the extra cost in the heat of bidding for a highly desired item. Verify that the add-on costs are legitimate and fair by checking costs from shipping rates and other sources. Many sellers will claim the extra charges are for handling or to pay packers, but these should be included in their cost of doing business. Do you pay a surcharge for a salesman's service or a bagger at the supermarket? Why should you pay extra for services required of the seller in order to conduct his business?

Before committing yourself, ask the seller by email, if he can ship at your choice and cost. Inform him of the alternative methods, costs and advantages, in case he is unaware of them. If refused, inform the seller that you will not buy with the over-charges.

Another ploy used by some sellers to gain profits, is to ship by a cheaper method than quoted. Instead of priority mail, much slower book rates or parcel post may be substituted at a seller gain of $2.00 or more. Insurance may be omitted or reduced. Check on receipt to assure you get what you paid for. If not as agreed, request a refund of the difference in charges. This practice is considered illegal. If this fails, leave negative feedback to warn others.

Money orders and certified checks are another cost that may be eliminated, if you can wait until a normal check clears. But be aware that rubber checks can be very costly when you pay the bank charges at both ends. Most states have laws to protect sellers from bounced checks, along with the Post office . Online auction houses will remove you very rapidly from membership, if reported.

Credit cards can be very expedient, but may be costly. Sellers pay a percentage fee in addition to your own fees. These are usually added to the minimum bid price. Credit card information should never be given to unknown parties without checking legitimacy. No information should be sent on the net without a security socket (SSL). The sharks are waiting.

Yet anther ploy is to charge different shipping rates for credit cards, money orders, certified checks or checks for whatever reason. There should not be any difference. Again, if not resolved, negative feedback may be warranted to warn others.

Avoid items with return penalties such as restocking charges. Your satisfaction is partly based on your interpretation of seller's description and he may be at fault. Definitely avoid "sold as is", or "no returns". The cost of rectifying the problem may be more than your bid. Be careful with missing parts, they may not be available or may be very expensive. If an operable item is not tested, you risk winding up with an expensive paper weight or repair job.

Evaluate any extras such as testing, lubrication or special treatment with lack of risk and add this to the final value in comparison to similar items without them. A thorough description is invaluable.

If possible combine items from one seller to reduce shipping cost per item. Multiple items in one lot will also reduce cost per item. The extra savings can added to bid value to permit a higher bid when compared to individual items.

Insurance is another cost that may be avoided, bearing in mind that any loss is yours. No seller should force it on you. We have shipped over 800 packages by Priority Mail with no losses. UPS has only lost one $300 shipment to our business since its inception. Fortunately it was insured. Insuring low cost items does not make sense, but expensive items are another case. However, insurance does not guarantee delivery of that one-of-a-kind what's it, regardless of cost. Possible monetary loss is the only reason for insurance.

Check the seller's reputation. There have been many frauds on the net and many more shady misrepresentations. Some auctions, such as eBay have feedback comments. Do not be impressed by numbers alone. Buying and selling comments may be mixed. A good buyer may not be a good seller. Comments are often indiscriminately swapped to increase counts. Take time to read some to get an overall opinion of the seller's performance in areas critical to you.

Bear in mind that not all sellers with large numbers in feedback are full time professionals. Due to other commitments, time may be at a premium. Equipment failures may cause delays. Exercise a little patience, when problems are not resolved immediately. Mistakes are made by even the best. On occasion, unreasonable parties may leave negative feedback, if everything does not go their way at their pace. Some may be vindictive sand-baggers, caught in the act.

Read all to know all. See discussion below.

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LISTING AND DESCRIPTION

Since not everyone is from Madison Avenue and space is very limited, listings may not give a clue to the real value behind the scene. Often they have simple statements like "train", or cryptic characters for emphasis , some times to help the seller identify his own. Often they have hackneyed catch words like "old" or ill used "vintage". Fortunately some are as explicit as possible in the space allotted. Although most are a waste of time, some of the best bargains are hidden behind nebulous listings. Search and screen carefully.

Check the category first to be sure you are not in a wrong scale, material or item group. For the same reasons, not all descriptions are very clear and often the seller is taken in by software hype that a beautiful page with frames and distracting flashing objects sells. I turn the frames and animations off through my browser to concentrate on the text. Avoiding the hype, look through the real data carefully for the important facts; like manufacturer, model number, scale or size, color, markings, age, production run, finish, assembled or kit and any other factors that are crucial to your choice. Remember condition is a judgement in the seller's eyes and may not agree entirely with yours. Words like wow, nice, beautiful, great, dream(y) convey no true meaning. In our hobby shop, when a salesman touted an item as "dynamite", it automatically meant it was dead and he could not move it.

Be very wary of the risks of dubious statements such as: "I am not a train person", "I don't know__if it runs__if it's all there__etc." and long dissertations about the little old lady who--. These may be honest statements from casual sellers and you may find your dream item in the listing, if you can be sure you are able to recoup the nebulous areas. On the other hand if the seller has hundreds or thousands of comments, you may be sure that he is an "antique" dealer evading the issue and you may be had with your pants on.

Even with our knowledge and experience plus a filing cabinet of catalogs, brochures and price lists from manufacturers and importers, identifying an item and its age can be very tricky. Some of my personal ones date back to the early 40's. Only with experience or study of an era, can you be reasonably sure. Know the manufacturing methods of the time period. From fairly crude paper and wood with lead alloy castings and metal stampings to laser cut wood and CAD_CAM developed castings, all give a clue. Investigate the product lines of a manufacturer for a given time period. Older items rarely had identifying marks and some were misleading. The mystic "NEW ONE MODEL", found on a wide variety of lower priced Japanese brass locos, brought in by at least 6 importers with some duplication, is a classic example. Was this used by only one maker or was it a general practice.?

Be aware that under new names, some kits from the 40's and 50's were produced over decades, some were reintroduced periodically and others are still in production. Some are virtually identical to the originals, some have very obvious changes, while others have very subtle differences that only thorough examination and knowledge can determine. Some may be improved, while others are worsened.

Many domestic locos have logos or ident cast, engraved or stamped on frames, cover plates and other parts. Varney had numbers on most larger parts. Some imported locos had embossed foil or etched plates glued to a bottom surface, but quite frequently they fell off or were removed for painting. At best they usually refer to the maker and not the importer.

Before diecasting, most other railroad models had embossed and printed paper or sheet metal sides. During assembly manufacturer's idents (if present) were cut away and often discarded. A knowledge of the construction and materials can separate both manufacturer and approximate date. Many items were continually improved to ease construction, facilitate manufacturing and meet the competition.

Parts yield many clues, assuming they are original and not upgraded for appearance or replaced due to loss or damage. Some were cast, others stamped or machined. Method of attachment and placement are clues. Even in plastic, some earlier runs had separate grabs and ladders, which were cast on in later runs. Underframes changed from wood floors and stamped or cast frame, to solid castings of metal and later plastic.

CAVEAT: Too often older Zamac was contaminated with lead or formulated incorrectly, resulting in diffusion precipitation, which caused castings to expand, warp, crack, flake and even crumble, after an undetermined period of time. The prediction or presence of these events is normally accompanied by a white powder often on darker, grainy surfaces. In many cases paint will flake off. There is no cure, only replacement.

Examination of finishes, including paint, lettering and blackening can be used to differentiate models and eras. The chemical and graphical technologies have improved rapidly and drastically over the years, resulting in many changes in finishes. Since most early kits had large unfinished surfaces and many unpainted parts, the type or even the brand of paint used may be identifiable. Many manufacturers specified the matching paint. Colors frequently changed slightly on different runs. Even the sheen varied. Earlier runs often had unblackened or off-black parts. Since it is not likely that models had certain colors before the prototype, the earliest date can be found.

The same holds true for lettering. Styles, placement, heralds, reporting marks, builder and service dates can be useful clues. However these may be incorrect and may be a clues in themselves. Runs separated by time may have different numbers. Be aware that some popular schemes were copied closely, right down to the numbers. Varney's PRR "DON'T STAND ME STILL" was copied by Hobby Line, Roco, Crown, Tyco, Life-Like, Hong Kong, Taiwan and others, all with the same number 71473.

Boxes may yield clues, but they are often swapped to store finished models larger than the original box. While many imports from Japan had rice paper boxes and packing which disintegrated and crumbled. Colors, artwork and even materials change, but there may be overlap for several years due to sizes, stock on hand, warehousing and other reasons. Occasionally labels are overlaid to meet demands and they fall off revealing a different model. We frequently swapped shells on locos to provide the widest variety with the least stock, resulting in incorrect roadnames on labels. To the collector they are invaluable, but to the modeller overpriced or worthless.

Dating from literature can be very misleading, since brochures, instructions and plans may be from old stockpiles or reprints without date change. Frequently only the parts list is updated to reflect new part numbers. Often when product lines are sold, the new owner placed a sticker over the original manufacturers data or just changed this portion in reprinting, neglecting a date change.

Pictures can be a great help in both identification and determining condition. They should be an adjunct to the description not a replacement. Not all sellers are photographers nor do they feel justified in investing in a $3000 digicam or professional art work. Rest assured, you will be paying in some way for the fancy ads. If you have done your homework, you may be able to identify items by noting small details like ladders, grab irons, and extent of detailing. Adjust your monitor to optimize viewing various parts closely. What you don't see may be what you don't get. I bought a brass gondola that was lettered only on the visible side. Beautiful box pictures are almost useless, unless you are an investing collector. Often items are in the wrong box or imperfections are disguised by the box. Worst of all is a box only picture with no clue of the contents. Study the photo off line, zoom it up if possible. Bear in mind: Beautiful pictures do not necessarily mean perfect items.

When all else fails, ask the seller!!! Keep in mind that most sellers have very limited time to devote to email and research. Take some time to prepare your question. First since some sellers may have twenty to even hundreds of items listed, cut and paste the listing line with number including the source (eBay etc.). Be specific as possible, if you expect the right answer the first time. GIGO (garbage in = garbage out) may very well apply here. I recently got a question about a GC-X. The process consisted of going on line, opening listings, searching the pages, opening the description, finding the item itself and finally looking for the non-existent data. Might I say, there was a very strong urge to reply with just a few choice words or ignore the whole damned thing.

Before commitment, follow as many of the tips that apply and any others you may think of. When sure of the item, set your value and derive you maximum offer and stick to it. In the heat of an auction, there is a tendency to overbid, if outbid near closing.

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BUYING AND BIDDING

Private ads are very tricky and risky. In general there is no indication of other offers and time is often critical. Do not be too hasty, but do not procrastinate. Good deals don't hang around too long. Be very careful, there are frauds.

Bidding is an imperfect art with many different methods. The name of the game is to get what you want at the lowest price by not tipping your hand to other bidders. In the early stages not much can be determined from analysing the bidding, except possibly that it has exceeded your maximum. Placing an early maximum bid is only useful if you will not be able to bid toward closing. However these bids can inflate the price rapidly to the seller's advantage. Check the bidding history periodically for trends, if any. At the risk of inflating, you may want to place a feeler, well below your max to find out if the high bidder is serious.

A reserve should make no difference in your bidding tactics. If it is higher than your absolute max, you will not win anyway. Since many bidders wrongfully think the number of bids is commensurate with item value, sellers place reserves to encourage bids rather than using a high start value, which may eliminate bids.

When to bid depends on auction rules, which should be thoroughly understood before bidding. In Dutch actions with multiple items and bidders, earlier bids of the same value take precedence as do higher bids. If you bid low, you must bid early at the risk of being outbid. Bear in mind that some (eBay) are priced at the lowest successful bid, but many (Egghead) are at your actual bid, even if higher. Many auctions extend closing until all late bids are processed, but eBay and others close at the exact time stated. In straight auctions, usually the closer to the end the better. Sniping can be very risky. Too early may allow someone to see and top your bid. Too late may not give you time to top another sniper. Worse if server response is slow or you fumble, your bid may be too late. In any case this should be your maximum value, win or lose.

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AFTER CLOSING

Contrary to eBay's advice, high bidders should wait a while for sellers to contact them, before asking for information . Many sellers have multiple listings and can not watch bidding at closing or send email until notices are received. Often these are delayed even for days. Confirmation is absolutely necessary, since some people falsely claim wins and prices and not always erroneously. Only if no response is received in three days, should you query. Most volume sellers do not end auctions on weekends for these reasons.

Most sellers wait for notification from auction house for validation of correct high bidder, price and completion. There are "sharks" cruising the waters, who falsely claim winning an auction in hopes that seller will unwittingly commit to and complete the transaction. In some cases these may be lower bidders or not bidders at all. About 5% of rapidly received email after closing falls into this category, either from misunderstanding or sham. These must be very tactfully answered.

Reply to the seller's notice ASAP with any requests on his or your part. Including name, address and ZIPCODE or country, can expedite prepacking and help resolve shipping costs on heavy or foreign shipments. In some cases packages must be weighed by shipping agent to determine cost, creating some delay in reply.

When submitting a payment be sure it is acceptable and always include a legible note clearly identifying the item, user ID, email address, name, shipping address, cost, shipping charges and any special requests such as insurance or method of shipping to assure their inclusion. The seller may not be able to cross reference your name to your user ID or email address very easily to identify an item. You may wait until you later complain before you and the item can be correlated. Cut and paste, from the notice and email, is the easiest and surest way.

Sending extraneous email tends to bog down the process. This includes confirmation of payment receipt, shipping etc. Be aware of that turn around time depends on payment mailing time, recording payments, packaging, shipping, clearing checks, workdays, holidays and mishaps. Allow enough time for these before querying about delivery. If you have a legitimate problem, do not hesitate to present it. Bear in mind that most sellers are honest and that courtesy gets the best results. Be aware of both your and the seller's rights to avoid misunderstandings.

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AT ITEM RECEIPT

Check the item thoroughly on receipt for hidden defects. Do not forget shipping charges. Some sellers ship by a slower, cheaper method than that agreed upon to increase their gains. This is especially true with delayed check clearing, where it is least likely to be noticed. If dissatisfied, contact seller immediately and negotiate a settlement. Be courteous and state your claims clearly. Be patient. Not all sellers can devote full time to the net. Most honest sellers will at worst refund the item cost, excluding shipping. Before getting nasty, examine the various help areas to find your rights and possibly seek aid in settlement. If not settled amicably, this is the place for negative feedback to warn others and possibly help remove unethical sellers.

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FEEDBACK CONSIDERATIONS

Feedback comments are much abused and the system is outdated. Not all positive feedback is of the same quality and probably most are really neutral or should be eliminated from the Browny Point system. Although little used, neutral is probably the only place to complain about minor infractions such as slow delivery, poor descriptions and communications, overcharged shipping etc. These should be slightly negative, but now negative is only for major wrongs and may incur dismissal. Too often negatives are used as a threat, warranted or not. Many bidders and sellers are reluctant to enter negatives because of the potentially dire consequences or fear of retaliation.

There is too much stress on numbers and not enough on quality. Numbers include buying and selling with no differentiation. These are and should be distinct. Good buyer does not necessarily equal good seller. Too often feedback is traded without thought to obtain quantity. There are sellers, with hundreds and even thousands, who overcharge shipping, offer no choice, ship slowly when convenient, demand costly payment methods and insurance or even misrepresent items. Some are even insulting. Unfortunately, although more knowledgeable buyers avoid them, presently there is no way to point out these individuals or comment on them. [examples]

Too often not much thought is given and a comment conveys no information. It should be concise with no flowers and frills. praising or condemning only as truly deserved. Be honest and fair, keeping in mind what you would look for when evaluating a seller. A few frank comments on performance may and should outweigh many traded, nothing ones. The stress should be on quality not quantity.

Many sellers update feedback in batches to ease the workload and wiser ones wait until a few days after expected delivery to ensure that all went well.

The use of your money is your power, spend it wisely and justly.
After you have been had, it may be too late.

"After taxes, a dollar saved is two dollars earned."


GOOD LUCK!

BUDB

budb3@bellatlantic.net
08330
United States

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