June 1997 Archives A
June 1997 Archives A
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 01, 1997 at 09:27:37 PDT Does anyone know who's gonna write and draw Cap after HR? Will they go back to the regular numbering?
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Posted by Bryan Hurley on June 01, 1997 at 10:39:20 PDT > Does anyone know who's gonna write and draw Cap after HR? Will they go back to the regular numbering? Waid & Garney are getting the title back after HR mercifully ends. I don't think they've announced what the numbering will be. I did hear that they won't continue the HR numbering, but whether or not they'll do another #1 or go back to pre-HR numbering is unknown. Bryan Hurley |
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Posted by jamie on June 01, 1997 at 11:38:17 PDT Dear Readers, Hah ! I know why there haven't been any messages for a Both Cap and Hulk comics suck, and that's why both Admit it : Captain America comics suck . Hulk comics That only leaves the Spidey, T- Bolts, and the DCU message Quit ignoring it : the Cap message board SUCKS ! When I came here this place was cool . What happened ? jamie |
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 01, 1997 at 13:45:56 PDT > Dear Readers, > Hah ! I know why there haven't been any messages for a > Both Cap and Hulk comics suck, and that's why both > Admit it : Captain America comics suck . Hulk comics > That only leaves the Spidey, T- Bolts, and the DCU message > Quit ignoring it : the Cap message board SUCKS ! > When I came here this place was cool . What happened ? > jamie
And the reason that this board is quiet is because this Heroes Reborn crap is still going on!!! Do you think if Alvaro would put up a Liefield board it'll be successful? HAH!!!
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 01, 1997 at 13:54:19 PDT > Dear Readers, > Hah ! I know why there haven't been any messages for a > Both Cap and Hulk comics suck, and that's why both > Admit it : Captain America comics suck . Hulk comics > That only leaves the Spidey, T- Bolts, and the DCU message > Quit ignoring it : the Cap message board SUCKS ! > When I came here this place was cool . What happened ? > jamie .....um....you came here. Actually Hulk is one of the best comics that Marvel puts out. Hardly anyone will dispute that fact. It is well writen and continually has had great artists on it for over 10 years now. An Ominous Ned |
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Posted by Batroc on June 01, 1997 at 14:10:48 PDT
You say Avengers "suck" but on 6/1/97, you are on the Thunderbolts |
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Posted by Lucky on June 01, 1997 at 15:22:42 PDT > > Dear Readers, > > Hah ! I know why there haven't been any messages for a > > Both Cap and Hulk comics suck, and that's why both > > Admit it : Captain America comics suck . Hulk comics > > That only leaves the Spidey, T- Bolts, and the DCU message > > Quit ignoring it : the Cap message board SUCKS ! > > When I came here this place was cool . What happened ? > > jamie > > And the reason that this board is quiet is because this Heroes Reborn crap is still going on!!! Do you think if Alvaro would put up a Liefield board it'll be successful? HAH!!! > >
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Posted by Lucky on June 01, 1997 at 15:24:52 PDT
From the eloquence of your posting, no wonder you are easily bored and unimpressed. |
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 01, 1997 at 15:28:05 PDT > From the eloquence of your posting, no wonder you are easily bored and unimpressed. Who me or Jamie?
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Posted by Lucky on June 01, 1997 at 15:48:05 PDT I read the recent editorial regarding a upcoming Captain America movie (a la ROBOCOP), and this news, together with the unmitigated deconstruction of CA's character with Leibfeld and even this latest issue ("Where ever they are, they'll be sorry they messed with me (CA)" in the last frame, only furthers my suspicion that CA's basic character is completely lost; or perhaps, rather, prostituted into a muscle-bound thug who can't derive any deeper of a motivation than VENGENCE. What's different between that and a bully? Nothing. Character sells, and what is more, character is what makes things last (i.e, How old is CA again?) Show some gentleness, some restraint, and some death. Heroes must be fighting for something with some significance, philosophical, moral, social -- something outside of themselves. Vengance is a poor substiute. Heroes are detectives, whether OEDIPUS, HAMLET or CA, and they must be after the truth. They must be a source of light, something for us to aspire towards. What is there elevated about "You'll be sorry!" sentiments? More Rob Leibfeld at work here, unfortunately. Doesn't anyone remember when the CA series was allegory, like the famous Green Lantern/Green Arrow series? Remember "Number One" (Nixon)? The Committee that worked outside the law (Iran/Contra)? That's the timber of a character that's lasted so long. Read your history new CA people. Some art provides obligation to what has come before as well as opportunity for new stuff -- not just a playground for the latest autuer who wants to act as though nothing has come before or since HIS towering talent (alleged). Like a vengance plot line: How boring. Let's have depth. I've always thought that CA and Falc's relationship was greatly unexplored for all the action they faced together. It's important for a character like CA/Steve to have someone with some history partnered with him -- someone he can let down with maybe now more than when they were together before. Somebody he can turn to when he's tired of holding up his chin, and just have a comrade who knows and things what he does before he does. I'm thinking of nice moments in the Avengers with Namor, or the original Avenger members. Anyway, this is long. Sorry. Just upset. Thanks for this page. |
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Posted by Batroc on June 01, 1997 at 17:40:51 PDT
O.K., gather around kiddies and I'll tell you the top five Cap |
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Posted by Roscoe on June 01, 1997 at 20:20:43 PDT > Dear Readers, > Hah ! I know why there haven't been any messages for a > Both Cap and Hulk comics suck, and that's why both > Admit it : Captain America comics suck . Hulk comics > That only leaves the Spidey, T- Bolts, and the DCU message > Quit ignoring it : the Cap message board SUCKS ! > When I came here this place was cool . What happened ? > jamie What happened? A bunch of immature little dinks came along and started posting rants about how Cap sucks. This immediately drove away all the people who were desperately hoping for an intelligent conversation about the greatest comic hero of this or any age, Captain America. If you don't like Cap, do us all a huge favor and get lost. -Roscoe |
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Posted by Roscoe on June 01, 1997 at 20:38:10 PDT
> O.K., gather around kiddies and I'll tell you the top five Cap Okay. 5)The Secret Empire/The first Replacement Cap saga (Cap #170-183). One sort of leads into the other, and this is the first time we really get into what makes Cap unique among heroes and would-be heroes, a subject that Gruenwald would go into more depth with later on. Of course, these are only my favorites that occured within a definable story arc. Other favorites would be basically everything between #270-301 and Gruenwald's first stuff (specifically #310-323). Also the issues between Bloodstone Hunt (which left me a bit flat) and the Streets of Poison (which was pretty good) are favorites. I'd have to say that Cap was consistantly excellent from #270 to #385, with very fue miscues. The issues leading up to #270 are nice as well. Also, the Stern/Byrne run from #248-256 (I think) and the run from #110-118 are both excellent. -Roscoe |
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Posted by Jason Fielding on June 01, 1997 at 20:53:38 PDT > Dear Readers, > Hah ! I know why there haven't been any messages for a > Both Cap and Hulk comics suck, and that's why both > Admit it : Captain America comics suck . Hulk comics > That only leaves the Spidey, T- Bolts, and the DCU message > Quit ignoring it : the Cap message board SUCKS ! > When I came here this place was cool . What happened ? > jamie People usually like writing about the problems in the comic, or want they will do on that comic if they had a chance. Most people like the Hulk so there is hardly any complaining done about the book and no one wants Peter off the book. Captain America and Avengers is in better hands now than before so there is less to talk about. There is nothing to talk about on the Hulk Board since the comic is good right now and only one issue comes out once a month to talk about. I would leave messages on the Hulk Board but I have no compliants about the book. I guess I will have to see the next writer of the Hulk will handle him. |
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Posted by Rob on June 02, 1997 at 01:06:08 PDT
> What's different between that and a bully? Nothing. > Character sells, and what is more, character is what makes things last (i.e, How old is CA again?) > Show some gentleness, some restraint, and some death. Heroes must be fighting for something with some significance, philosophical, moral, social -- something outside of themselves. Vengance is a poor substiute. Heroes are detectives, whether OEDIPUS, HAMLET or CA, and they must be after the truth. They must be a source of light, something for us to aspire towards. What is there elevated about "You'll be sorry!" sentiments? More Rob Leibfeld at work here, unfortunately. > Doesn't anyone remember when the CA series was allegory, like the famous Green Lantern/Green Arrow series? Remember "Number One" (Nixon)? The Committee that worked outside the law (Iran/Contra)? That's the timber of a character that's lasted so long. > Read your history new CA people. Some art provides obligation to what has come before as well as opportunity for new stuff -- not just a playground for the latest autuer who wants to act as though nothing has come before or since HIS towering talent (alleged). Like a vengance plot line: How boring. > Let's have depth. I've always thought that CA and Falc's relationship was greatly unexplored for all the action they faced together. It's important for a character like CA/Steve to have someone with some history partnered with him -- someone he can let down with maybe now more than when they were together before. Somebody he can turn to when he's tired of holding up his chin, and just have a comrade who knows and things what he does before he does. I'm thinking of nice moments in the Avengers with Namor, or the original Avenger members.
A friend of mine, eight years ago, suggested the idea of Chuck Norris playing Cap. And I was trying to explain to him why I thought that would be a bad choice. Cap is a man of ideas as well as action. The emphasis of a film would have to be on his fight for the American Dream...divorced from that, it becomes just another meaningless slugfest. I've long thought that the only way they could do a movie right is to follow the chronology of the comic...He would have to be resurrected in the early 1960s, to reflect the growing confusion of the decade's changes. The Steranko issues could reflect the psychedelic look of the late 1960s. But on second thought, who needs the movie when the comics have done it all already?
Pleased to read your post...found it enjoyable. And I am also grateful for this page. It has excellent potential to bring Capfans together. Rob
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Posted by Rob on June 02, 1997 at 01:58:32 PDT
It's odd...I'd never heard the phrase "story-arcs" until the 1990s...and now I hear that phrase all the time... > > 5.) The Bloodstone Hunt (Gruenwald) I liked the Raiders of the Yeah, this was good... Dwyer's art had improved amazingly! I also noted the "Raiders" feel...maybe you saw my comparison to the "pace of an Indiana Jones movie" on my post on the Marvel board? > > 4.) Captain America II (Thomas) Issues 153-156, This is one of my Actually, Englehart wrote this, not Thomas. But Thomas was editor & had big-time influence on this story from what I've heard. Yeah, it's good. My favorite of the four is #154. I love that scene where Rafe & friends get together to save Falc! > > 3.) Streets of Poison--you got Crossbones, Daredevil, Bullseye, I've not actually read this yet...But I have some of the issues... > > 2.) The Secret Empire (Englehart) Issues 170-175. Englehart at his Actually, the arc begins with #169. Yep, this is great, classic work. I tend to lump the whole thing together as one big storyline stretching from #169 to around #183... > > 1.) Madame Hydra (Stan Lee/Steranko) Simply the best in an off beat Yeah, #110, 111, & 113 are great. These have been reprinted a few times...in Marvel Super Action (basically only the middle centerspread pages are missing) and in Captain America Special Edition in the 1980s, if one would prefer not to spend lots of money on the originals. #111 is probably my favorite of the three. Eerie atmosphere to it. > > >>If your getting back issues start with these. I also want to I've not really read the Waid run yet...Didn't care for what little I'd read, tho...I will let you know...
> 5)The Secret Empire/The first Replacement Cap saga (Cap #170-183). One sort of leads into the other, and this is the first time we really get into what makes Cap unique among heroes and would-be heroes, a subject that Gruenwald would go into more depth with later on. Again, it's #169-183. And personally I just saw the Gruenwald thing as a rip-off of the Englehart idea...(and didn't Waid try to have Cap be unable to be Cap, too, or something? I'm bored by that idea...Englehart did it best & showed why Cap must be Cap...)
Hmmm...I'll have to re-examine these issues one of these days. At the time, I had a subscription to Cap...I remember liking #275 a lot, but thought the issues after that didn't have much going for them other than the nice covers...then it picked up again with issue #279 with that golden guy. #280 was even better...a story about Scarecrow (not part of any arc). Then #281-283 or so had the arc introducing Jack Monroe as Nomad. I liked those ones better than the Zemo arc. > 3)Captain America II (Captain America #153-156; Thomas) This is a classic storyline. Yep, we all agree here. > 2)The Last Red Skull Story (Captain America #290-301; I think this was DeMatties and maybe Mike Carlin as well). This features what may be one of the best single issues of Captain America ever, #298, the origin of the Red Skull. Totally disagree here. These are the issues that got me to stop buying Cap for a year. The only reason I got them was because I still had my subscription. I will admit the issue with the origin of The Red Skull was better...interesting to see the origin re-told but we see his face this time instead of the back of his head. But I really didn't like this arc at all... > 1) The Replacement Cap (that is, the second Replacement Cap saga; Captain America #332-350 (Gruenwald)). I hated these when they came out, but on second and third readings, this story as a whole stands as a great exploratory tale that shows why we need Cap and why Steve Rogers is the only person up for the job. Oh, man...This arc was the second thing to get me to stop buying Cap. #356, in fact, was the last issue of Cap I bought until Waid began writing it! If it wasn't for this Replacement arc, I might have been able to enjoy "The Bloodstone Hunt" when it was first published, and not eight years later! > Of course, these are only my favorites that occured within a definable story arc. Other favorites would be basically everything between #270-301 and Gruenwald's first stuff (specifically #310-323). I will grant you that Gruenwald's #310-323 was good. #320 was great...and I felt that way about it at the time, too. »Also the issues between Bloodstone Hunt (which left me a bit flat) and the Streets of Poison (which was pretty good) are favorites. I'd have to say that Cap was consistantly excellent from #270 to #385, with very fue miscues. The issues leading up to #270 are nice as well. Personally, I like the issues leading up to #270 more than I like #270-274, 285, 286, 290, etc. #258-269 were some great issues...not a dud among them. Cap vs. an arsonist, Cap vs. a motorcycle gang (&, oh yeah, Doc Ock), Cap revisits the jail he went to in T.O.S. (cameo appearences by people who look like Clark Kent & Jimmy Olsen in this one), #261-263 the three-parter with the fake Nomad, #264 with its alternate history of Cap, #265-266 a team-up with Spidey & Nick Fury, #267 one of my favorite issues; #268, 269...First appearence of Team America & Cap crosses-over w/The Defenders (with Cap's review of Raiders in that issue..)...good little period. »Also, the Stern/Byrne run from #248-256 (I think) and the run from #110-118 are both excellent. > -Roscoe Byrne run was from #247-255...That has to be one of the best runs in Cap. Favorite issues: #247, 250, 253-255. Isn't it interesting the seriousness Roger Stern approached his subject during that period...even in the letters-pages a few issues before he started writing it. Nobody mentioned one of my favorite "arcs" (if it is an arc)...#217-237... Nobody mentioned Kirby's second run...particularly the famous "Madbomb" saga. Not one of my favorites...altho I liked some isolated issues of it, like #193, 196, etc. So...my Top 5 favorite arcs...in order of preference. Counting actual story arcs, not eras (like, "the Byrne issues" or "the Steranko issues"). 1.) Replacement Cap (#153-156) Finally, let me say that it is a pleasure to post with such knowledgeable Cap-readers as Roscoe & Batroc. I hope that the sometimes-juvenile posts that appear here don't drive away the real fans like you. (I must admit, for a while there, when the board was filling up with weird Liefeld-related stuff, I had to wonder whether I would continue even looking at this page. I'm glad I kept checking back in here, needless to say.) It's good to know there are people posting here who share my interest in Cap's long history. Rob
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Posted by jamie on June 02, 1997 at 03:33:04 PDT Dear Readers, Why can't you talk about your favorite writers ? Artists ? Sheesh ! Can't you talk about anything other than crap ? jamie
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 02, 1997 at 08:00:12 PDT > Dear Readers, > Why can't you talk about your favorite writers ? Artists ? > Sheesh ! Can't you talk about anything other than crap ? > jamie And just what the hell are you typing? Cya |
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Posted by Batroc on June 02, 1997 at 08:12:08 PDT
O.k., you seem to have all of the answers. I recently read that |
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Posted by Batroc on June 02, 1997 at 08:22:28 PDT
> > Dear Readers, |
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Posted by Bubba2 on June 02, 1997 at 08:44:21 PDT > Dear Readers, > Why can't you talk about your favorite writers ? Artists ? > Sheesh ! Can't you talk about anything other than crap ? > jamie Yo, Jamie! We tried to do that dance, but you weren't interested! I'm assuming you are the same jamie who posted some deragotory remarks about Waid and Garney. I answered your posts, even asking you for concrete examples to back up your criticisms. Basically, you didn't say a word. So, in the words of Dylan, if you ain't part of the solution, get out of the way! Happy Birthday, Bubba2 |
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Posted by David Medinnus on June 02, 1997 at 11:52:57 PDT
> I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age As far as I know, there have been only two Skulls; the original (Johann Schmidt) and the 1950's fake Skull. Not counting any Original Skull decoys ("Hah! You have caught my decoy while I, the REAL Skull, escape....mwahh hah hah hah!"), of course... Of course, I could be wrong; Ghod knows it happens often enough... -DM |
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Posted by Bryan Hurley on June 02, 1997 at 14:44:00 PDT > Dear Readers, > Why can't you talk about your favorite writers ? Artists ? > Sheesh ! Can't you talk about anything other than crap ? > jamie Does the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" mean anything to you? The only one I see doing pointless babbling around these boards is you. You really need to grow up and realize that people are not insulting you when they disagree. If you don't agree with what someone says about something, try saying why you don't agree with intelligent reasoned arguments. That's a lot more effective than just hopping around all the boards saying that everybody sucks, which just makes you look like an idiot. Bryan Hurley |
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Posted by Roscoe on June 02, 1997 at 15:43:01 PDT
> > It's odd...I'd never heard the phrase "story-arcs" until the 1990s...and now I hear that phrase all the time... > > > 5.) The Bloodstone Hunt (Gruenwald) I liked the Raiders of the > Yeah, this was good... Dwyer's art had improved amazingly! I also noted the "Raiders" feel...maybe you saw my comparison to the "pace of an Indiana Jones movie" on my post on the Marvel board? > > > 4.) Captain America II (Thomas) Issues 153-156, This is one of my > Actually, Englehart wrote this, not Thomas. But Thomas was editor & had big-time influence on this story from what I've heard. Yeah, it's good. My favorite of the four is #154. I love that scene where Rafe & friends get together to save Falc! > > > 3.) Streets of Poison--you got Crossbones, Daredevil, Bullseye, > I've not actually read this yet...But I have some of the issues... > > > 2.) The Secret Empire (Englehart) Issues 170-175. Englehart at his > Actually, the arc begins with #169. Yep, this is great, classic work. I tend to lump the whole thing together as one big storyline stretching from #169 to around #183... > > > 1.) Madame Hydra (Stan Lee/Steranko) Simply the best in an off beat > Yeah, #110, 111, & 113 are great. These have been reprinted a few times...in Marvel Super Action (basically only the middle centerspread pages are missing) and in Captain America Special Edition in the 1980s, if one would prefer not to spend lots of money on the originals. #111 is probably my favorite of the three. Eerie atmosphere to it. > > > >>If your getting back issues start with these. I also want to > I've not really read the Waid run yet...Didn't care for what little I'd read, tho...I will let you know... > > > 5)The Secret Empire/The first Replacement Cap saga (Cap #170-183). One sort of leads into the other, and this is the first time we really get into what makes Cap unique among heroes and would-be heroes, a subject that Gruenwald would go into more depth with later on. > Again, it's #169-183. And personally I just saw the Gruenwald thing as a rip-off of the Englehart idea...(and didn't Waid try to have Cap be unable to be Cap, too, or something? I'm bored by that idea...Englehart did it best & showed why Cap must be Cap...) > > Hmmm...I'll have to re-examine these issues one of these days. At the time, I had a subscription to Cap...I remember liking #275 a lot, but thought the issues after that didn't have much going for them other than the nice covers...then it picked up again with issue #279 with that golden guy. #280 was even better...a story about Scarecrow (not part of any arc). Then #281-283 or so had the arc introducing Jack Monroe as Nomad. I liked those ones better than the Zemo arc. > > 3)Captain America II (Captain America #153-156; Thomas) This is a classic storyline. > Yep, we all agree here. > > 2)The Last Red Skull Story (Captain America #290-301; I think this was DeMatties and maybe Mike Carlin as well). This features what may be one of the best single issues of Captain America ever, #298, the origin of the Red Skull. > Totally disagree here. These are the issues that got me to stop buying Cap for a year. The only reason I got them was because I still had my subscription. I will admit the issue with the origin of The Red Skull was better...interesting to see the origin re-told but we see his face this time instead of the back of his head. But I really didn't like this arc at all... > > 1) The Replacement Cap (that is, the second Replacement Cap saga; Captain America #332-350 (Gruenwald)). I hated these when they came out, but on second and third readings, this story as a whole stands as a great exploratory tale that shows why we need Cap and why Steve Rogers is the only person up for the job. > Oh, man...This arc was the second thing to get me to stop buying Cap. #356, in fact, was the last issue of Cap I bought until Waid began writing it! If it wasn't for this Replacement arc, I might have been able to enjoy "The Bloodstone Hunt" when it was first published, and not eight years later! > > Of course, these are only my favorites that occured within a definable story arc. Other favorites would be basically everything between #270-301 and Gruenwald's first stuff (specifically #310-323). > I will grant you that Gruenwald's #310-323 was good. #320 was great...and I felt that way about it at the time, too. > »Also the issues between Bloodstone Hunt (which left me a bit flat) and the Streets of Poison (which was pretty good) are favorites. I'd have to say that Cap was consistantly excellent from #270 to #385, with very fue miscues. The issues leading up to #270 are nice as well. > Personally, I like the issues leading up to #270 more than I like #270-274, 285, 286, 290, etc. #258-269 were some great issues...not a dud among them. Cap vs. an arsonist, Cap vs. a motorcycle gang (&, oh yeah, Doc Ock), Cap revisits the jail he went to in T.O.S. (cameo appearences by people who look like Clark Kent & Jimmy Olsen in this one), #261-263 the three-parter with the fake Nomad, #264 with its alternate history of Cap, #265-266 a team-up with Spidey & Nick Fury, #267 one of my favorite issues; #268, 269...First appearence of Team America & Cap crosses-over w/The Defenders (with Cap's review of Raiders in that issue..)...good little period. > »Also, the Stern/Byrne run from #248-256 (I think) and the run from #110-118 are both excellent. > > -Roscoe > Byrne run was from #247-255...That has to be one of the best runs in Cap. Favorite issues: #247, 250, 253-255. Isn't it interesting the seriousness Roger Stern approached his subject during that period...even in the letters-pages a few issues before he started writing it. > Nobody mentioned one of my favorite "arcs" (if it is an arc)...#217-237... > Nobody mentioned Kirby's second run...particularly the famous "Madbomb" saga. Not one of my favorites...altho I liked some isolated issues of it, like #193, 196, etc. > So...my Top 5 favorite arcs...in order of preference. Counting actual story arcs, not eras (like, "the Byrne issues" or "the Steranko issues"). > 1.) Replacement Cap (#153-156) > Finally, let me say that it is a pleasure to post with such knowledgeable Cap-readers as Roscoe & Batroc. I hope that the sometimes-juvenile posts that appear here don't drive away the real fans like you. (I must admit, for a while there, when the board was filling up with weird Liefeld-related stuff, I had to wonder whether I would continue even looking at this page. I'm glad I kept checking back in here, needless to say.) It's good to know there are people posting here who share my interest in Cap's long history. > Rob
As for your comments...odd, we seem to have very different taste in Cap stories. While the stretch from #258-269 was good, I just didn't enjoy it as much as the stuff before or after. I also wasn't really into the #217-237 stuff as much as what came after (though I found it much more interesting than most of the Kirby run). Of course, I didn't read any of this when it came out, as my first issue was #308. I've read that a persons favorite comics are as a rule the issues they bought when they first collected; oddly, while this is sort of true, I find I really enjoy all the stuff that came out just before I started collecting. The period from 1980 or so to 1986 or so had some great stuff, before Dark Knight and Watchmen (both incredible books) inadvertantly crushed the industry under ablanket of darkness. The Gru replacement series actually made me quit collecting Cap as well, I hated it. But when I reread it as a whole, I really thought it was great. There's some serious issues, and some seriously wacked stuff (Ronald Reagan becomes a lizard man and fights Cap in the Oval Office while Viper goads them on...geez). Plus, while I don't care for Ron Frenz' artwork inside a book, I love his retro-silver age covers. -Roscoe |
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Posted by Roscoe on June 02, 1997 at 15:43:16 PDT
> > It's odd...I'd never heard the phrase "story-arcs" until the 1990s...and now I hear that phrase all the time... > > > 5.) The Bloodstone Hunt (Gruenwald) I liked the Raiders of the > Yeah, this was good... Dwyer's art had improved amazingly! I also noted the "Raiders" feel...maybe you saw my comparison to the "pace of an Indiana Jones movie" on my post on the Marvel board? > > > 4.) Captain America II (Thomas) Issues 153-156, This is one of my > Actually, Englehart wrote this, not Thomas. But Thomas was editor & had big-time influence on this story from what I've heard. Yeah, it's good. My favorite of the four is #154. I love that scene where Rafe & friends get together to save Falc! > > > 3.) Streets of Poison--you got Crossbones, Daredevil, Bullseye, > I've not actually read this yet...But I have some of the issues... > > > 2.) The Secret Empire (Englehart) Issues 170-175. Englehart at his > Actually, the arc begins with #169. Yep, this is great, classic work. I tend to lump the whole thing together as one big storyline stretching from #169 to around #183... > > > 1.) Madame Hydra (Stan Lee/Steranko) Simply the best in an off beat > Yeah, #110, 111, & 113 are great. These have been reprinted a few times...in Marvel Super Action (basically only the middle centerspread pages are missing) and in Captain America Special Edition in the 1980s, if one would prefer not to spend lots of money on the originals. #111 is probably my favorite of the three. Eerie atmosphere to it. > > > >>If your getting back issues start with these. I also want to > I've not really read the Waid run yet...Didn't care for what little I'd read, tho...I will let you know... > > > 5)The Secret Empire/The first Replacement Cap saga (Cap #170-183). One sort of leads into the other, and this is the first time we really get into what makes Cap unique among heroes and would-be heroes, a subject that Gruenwald would go into more depth with later on. > Again, it's #169-183. And personally I just saw the Gruenwald thing as a rip-off of the Englehart idea...(and didn't Waid try to have Cap be unable to be Cap, too, or something? I'm bored by that idea...Englehart did it best & showed why Cap must be Cap...) > > Hmmm...I'll have to re-examine these issues one of these days. At the time, I had a subscription to Cap...I remember liking #275 a lot, but thought the issues after that didn't have much going for them other than the nice covers...then it picked up again with issue #279 with that golden guy. #280 was even better...a story about Scarecrow (not part of any arc). Then #281-283 or so had the arc introducing Jack Monroe as Nomad. I liked those ones better than the Zemo arc. > > 3)Captain America II (Captain America #153-156; Thomas) This is a classic storyline. > Yep, we all agree here. > > 2)The Last Red Skull Story (Captain America #290-301; I think this was DeMatties and maybe Mike Carlin as well). This features what may be one of the best single issues of Captain America ever, #298, the origin of the Red Skull. > Totally disagree here. These are the issues that got me to stop buying Cap for a year. The only reason I got them was because I still had my subscription. I will admit the issue with the origin of The Red Skull was better...interesting to see the origin re-told but we see his face this time instead of the back of his head. But I really didn't like this arc at all... > > 1) The Replacement Cap (that is, the second Replacement Cap saga; Captain America #332-350 (Gruenwald)). I hated these when they came out, but on second and third readings, this story as a whole stands as a great exploratory tale that shows why we need Cap and why Steve Rogers is the only person up for the job. > Oh, man...This arc was the second thing to get me to stop buying Cap. #356, in fact, was the last issue of Cap I bought until Waid began writing it! If it wasn't for this Replacement arc, I might have been able to enjoy "The Bloodstone Hunt" when it was first published, and not eight years later! > > Of course, these are only my favorites that occured within a definable story arc. Other favorites would be basically everything between #270-301 and Gruenwald's first stuff (specifically #310-323). > I will grant you that Gruenwald's #310-323 was good. #320 was great...and I felt that way about it at the time, too. > »Also the issues between Bloodstone Hunt (which left me a bit flat) and the Streets of Poison (which was pretty good) are favorites. I'd have to say that Cap was consistantly excellent from #270 to #385, with very fue miscues. The issues leading up to #270 are nice as well. > Personally, I like the issues leading up to #270 more than I like #270-274, 285, 286, 290, etc. #258-269 were some great issues...not a dud among them. Cap vs. an arsonist, Cap vs. a motorcycle gang (&, oh yeah, Doc Ock), Cap revisits the jail he went to in T.O.S. (cameo appearences by people who look like Clark Kent & Jimmy Olsen in this one), #261-263 the three-parter with the fake Nomad, #264 with its alternate history of Cap, #265-266 a team-up with Spidey & Nick Fury, #267 one of my favorite issues; #268, 269...First appearence of Team America & Cap crosses-over w/The Defenders (with Cap's review of Raiders in that issue..)...good little period. > »Also, the Stern/Byrne run from #248-256 (I think) and the run from #110-118 are both excellent. > > -Roscoe > Byrne run was from #247-255...That has to be one of the best runs in Cap. Favorite issues: #247, 250, 253-255. Isn't it interesting the seriousness Roger Stern approached his subject during that period...even in the letters-pages a few issues before he started writing it. > Nobody mentioned one of my favorite "arcs" (if it is an arc)...#217-237... > Nobody mentioned Kirby's second run...particularly the famous "Madbomb" saga. Not one of my favorites...altho I liked some isolated issues of it, like #193, 196, etc. > So...my Top 5 favorite arcs...in order of preference. Counting actual story arcs, not eras (like, "the Byrne issues" or "the Steranko issues"). > 1.) Replacement Cap (#153-156) > Finally, let me say that it is a pleasure to post with such knowledgeable Cap-readers as Roscoe & Batroc. I hope that the sometimes-juvenile posts that appear here don't drive away the real fans like you. (I must admit, for a while there, when the board was filling up with weird Liefeld-related stuff, I had to wonder whether I would continue even looking at this page. I'm glad I kept checking back in here, needless to say.) It's good to know there are people posting here who share my interest in Cap's long history. > Rob
As for your comments...odd, we seem to have very different taste in Cap stories. While the stretch from #258-269 was good, I just didn't enjoy it as much as the stuff before or after. I also wasn't really into the #217-237 stuff as much as what came after (though I found it much more interesting than most of the Kirby run). Of course, I didn't read any of this when it came out, as my first issue was #308. I've read that a persons favorite comics are as a rule the issues they bought when they first collected; oddly, while this is sort of true, I find I really enjoy all the stuff that came out just before I started collecting. The period from 1980 or so to 1986 or so had some great stuff, before Dark Knight and Watchmen (both incredible books) inadvertantly crushed the industry under ablanket of darkness. The Gru replacement series actually made me quit collecting Cap as well, I hated it. But when I reread it as a whole, I really thought it was great. There's some serious issues, and some seriously wacked stuff (Ronald Reagan becomes a lizard man and fights Cap in the Oval Office while Viper goads them on...geez). Plus, while I don't care for Ron Frenz' artwork inside a book, I love his retro-silver age covers. -Roscoe |
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Posted by The Plaid Goblin on June 02, 1997 at 17:01:34 PDT
> > I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age > As far as I know, there have been only two Skulls; the original (Johann Schmidt) and the 1950's fake Skull. > Not counting any Original Skull decoys ("Hah! You have caught my decoy while I, the REAL Skull, escape....mwahh hah hah hah!"), of course... > Of course, I could be wrong; Ghod knows it happens often enough... > -DM The original Skull was George Maxon and he appeared in Cap#1! It appears Schmidt took his place as the Red Skull when Maxon died! I think this was revealed when he was saved by that AIM team after that long sleep due to that experimental gas!
Whenever there is injustice, tyrannay, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!! |
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Posted by Batroc on June 02, 1997 at 17:06:09 PDT
> > I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age |
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Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 02, 1997 at 17:46:16 PDT
> > I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age > As far as I know, there have been only two Skulls; the original (Johann Schmidt) and the 1950's fake Skull. > Not counting any Original Skull decoys ("Hah! You have caught my decoy while I, the REAL Skull, escape....mwahh hah hah hah!"), of course... > Of course, I could be wrong; Ghod knows it happens often enough... > -DM A 1950's fake Skull? I don't recall that. But then again, I'm awful when it comes to ridiculous plot lines. heh. Was that a one issue deal or did this fake Skull star in a few books? Any key issue numbers I can refer to? Mike.... |
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Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 02, 1997 at 17:49:50 PDT > Dear Readers, > Why can't you talk about your favorite writers ? Artists ? > Sheesh ! Can't you talk about anything other than crap ? > jamie
Mike.... |
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Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 02, 1997 at 18:02:10 PDT
> O.K., gather around kiddies and I'll tell you the top five Cap
Streets of Poison I thought was well done and I had fun watching Cap be the bad guy and really cutting lose, showing off how well he could fight. Plus it's always fun to see heroes fight one another, so Cap beating the tar out of Daredevil certainly was a plus. Plus a great cast of characters. I did disagree with Cap's opinion of his soldier serum. The REASON steroids are illegal and dangerous is because of there side effect. The super soldier serum did not have any harmful side effects so I do not feel he should have abandoned it so easily. Cap dons the Nomad outfit. Trips on his cape. Nuff said. Introduction of Jack Monroe (again, no issue numbers handy. Sorry). His donning of the Nomad mantle and Viper's mental tortures administered to a captive Captain America. We get to see flashbacks of his family and home life. Particularly his Dad's influence on his patriotic views. Captain America Adventures #1-3 were great. Well done. Very thorough. Ended a little flat. Great art, humor, fun, excitment. It was fun to see Cap mess up and make mistakes. I'd like to see a Captain America Adventures regular series. It'd be fun to read tales of Cap during WWII. I'm sure there are plenty of stories they could tell without messing up current plotline (or lack thereof). Not necessary the top five, but the five that came to the top of my head. Heh.
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Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 02, 1997 at 18:09:46 PDT > I read the recent editorial regarding a upcoming Captain America movie (a la ROBOCOP), and this news, together with the unmitigated deconstruction of CA's character with Leibfeld and even this latest issue ("Where ever they are, they'll be sorry they messed with me (CA)" in the last frame, only furthers my suspicion that CA's basic character is completely lost; or perhaps, rather, prostituted into a muscle-bound thug who can't derive any deeper of a motivation than VENGENCE. > What's different between that and a bully? Nothing. > Character sells, and what is more, character is what makes things last (i.e, How old is CA again?) > Show some gentleness, some restraint, and some death. Heroes must be fighting for something with some significance, philosophical, moral, social -- something outside of themselves. Vengance is a poor substiute. Heroes are detectives, whether OEDIPUS, HAMLET or CA, and they must be after the truth. They must be a source of light, something for us to aspire towards. What is there elevated about "You'll be sorry!" sentiments? More Rob Leibfeld at work here, unfortunately. > Doesn't anyone remember when the CA series was allegory, like the famous Green Lantern/Green Arrow series? Remember "Number One" (Nixon)? The Committee that worked outside the law (Iran/Contra)? That's the timber of a character that's lasted so long. > Read your history new CA people. Some art provides obligation to what has come before as well as opportunity for new stuff -- not just a playground for the latest autuer who wants to act as though nothing has come before or since HIS towering talent (alleged). Like a vengance plot line: How boring. > Let's have depth. I've always thought that CA and Falc's relationship was greatly unexplored for all the action they faced together. It's important for a character like CA/Steve to have someone with some history partnered with him -- someone he can let down with maybe now more than when they were together before. Somebody he can turn to when he's tired of holding up his chin, and just have a comrade who knows and things what he does before he does. I'm thinking of nice moments in the Avengers with Namor, or the original Avenger members. > Anyway, this is long. Sorry. Just upset. Thanks for this page.
So unfortunately, Cap was turned into a mindless thug when Marvel let Rob take over the reigns of his book. But he's gone now, so hopefully things will get back to how they should be. I thought Waid and Garney had a good sense of who Cap was. I had my doubts but towards the end of their (very) short run, I felt they had a grasp on his character. Hopefully they'll be back. Mike.... |
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Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 02, 1997 at 18:13:50 PDT > Dear Readers, > Hah ! I know why there haven't been any messages for a > Both Cap and Hulk comics suck, and that's why both > Admit it : Captain America comics suck . Hulk comics > That only leaves the Spidey, T- Bolts, and the DCU message > Quit ignoring it : the Cap message board SUCKS ! > When I came here this place was cool . What happened ?
Mike....
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Posted by Batroc on June 02, 1997 at 18:28:34 PDT
Aha, I've finally caught you. Ladies and Gentlemen the Plaid |
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 02, 1997 at 18:34:54 PDT
> > > I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age > > As far as I know, there have been only two Skulls; the original (Johann Schmidt) and the 1950's fake Skull. > > Not counting any Original Skull decoys ("Hah! You have caught my decoy while I, the REAL Skull, escape....mwahh hah hah hah!"), of course... > > Of course, I could be wrong; Ghod knows it happens often enough... > > -DM > A 1950's fake Skull? I don't recall that. But then again, I'm awful when it comes to ridiculous plot lines. heh. Was that a one issue deal or did this fake Skull star in a few books? Any key issue numbers I can refer to? > Mike.... Wasn't that the Russian Red Skull? The one that killed Peter Parker's parents? He was killed by the Scourge wasn't he?
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 02, 1997 at 18:39:36 PDT
> Aha, I've finally caught you. Ladies and Gentlemen the Plaid Blast it!! Why does everyone expose me for what I really am!! I guess the people around here are just too smart! I guess I'm going to have to kill the smart ones then!
Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!! |
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Posted by Batroc on June 02, 1997 at 18:39:41 PDT
> > > I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age |
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Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 02, 1997 at 20:04:33 PDT
> > > > I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age Oh well I DO remember a fake skull being assassinated by Scourge after being busted out of prison, now that you mention it. Ooookaaay. I got it now. Thanks! |
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Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 02, 1997 at 20:07:45 PDT
> > > > I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age Oh well I DO remember a fake skull being assassinated by Scourge after being busted out of prison, now that you mention it. Ooookaaay. I got it now. Thanks! |
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Posted by Batroc on June 02, 1997 at 20:09:22 PDT
>>>Gee, Skully, hope you're just kidding about killing and all........ |
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 02, 1997 at 20:38:24 PDT
> > Aha, I've finally caught you. Ladies and Gentlemen the Plaid > Blast it!! Why does everyone expose me for what I really am!! I guess the people around here are just too smart! I guess I'm going to have to kill the smart ones then! > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!! .....was this a secret? |
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Posted by Roscoe on June 02, 1997 at 20:55:24 PDT
> > > > I recently read that there were two Red Skulls from the golden age Unfortunately I haven't been able to begin my pre-SA Cap collection as yet. However, I do distinctly recall seeing a beautiful Cap #78 at a show for $206 and banging my head against the wall because I didn't have the money. -Roscoe |
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 02, 1997 at 21:29:29 PDT
> >>>Gee, Skully, hope you're just kidding about killing and all........ OK,Maxon appeared in Cap#1! And Schmidt appeared in Cap#7! 7's my lucky number BTW!! Zwahahahahahahahahaahahhahaahaha!!
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Posted by David Medinnus on June 02, 1997 at 21:38:53 PDT
Gotta go back and re-read Cap#1 - Cap#10, just so that I can comment (I have the reprints not the originals...put DOWN that gun...), but you're probably right; I got the Skull info from Tales Tro Astonish reprints in the oldy-moldy-but-goodie "Bring On The Bad Guys" trade paperback put out waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long ago. But I know you will forgive me if I've been honestly mistaken...for that is the way of honair...the way of Batroc ze Leepair! -DM |
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Posted by Batroc on June 03, 1997 at 05:39:20 PDT
> > > Aha, I've finally caught you. Ladies and Gentlemen the Plaid |
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Posted by Lucky on June 03, 1997 at 08:24:48 PDT Do I need to say it? Jamie. That verbose and convincing account he gives! What language! What language!
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Posted by TLesch on June 03, 1997 at 15:20:04 PDT I'm pretty new to this site, but I have to say, you guys know your Cap! I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Kirby fan, and no, I'm not ancient. I have idolized Kirby because he was to comics what the Beatles were to rock and roll. Today's "creators" can only dream of cranking out 8 pages of finished art a day like Jack did. They can only apologize for late books. What disturbs me the most are these fans (and you know of whom I speak) that post things that blatantly show their lack of taste. Cap is so hard for them to grasp, and I don't know why. They have no sense of history, of patriotism, of intelligent stories, of graceful and powerful art, etc. Cap is a patriot. The kind of patriot that loves America so much, they'd die for her. The Heroes Reborn Cap has been shameful. IMAGE is where he belongs ( Read;Agent America) and all those fans that think he was "cool". I wish fans like "J" would read some real books, get a little more education and maturity, and then enjoy the back issues of Cap. Watch when Cap experiences deep remorse over killing Baron Blood. Compare that to the shameful "gang-banger" type attitude of HR Cap. Real heroes aren't bloodthirsty. Real heroes don't relish maiming someone. They see violence as a last resort. But maybe today's shallow comics are only indicative of the immaturity of their creators. Or their fans. Lest you think I'm only here to complain, I like the Cap stories with AIM, Rick Jones as Bucky II, Scourge, the Sleepers, and the Serpent Society. Oh, and thanks for this board. It's a great forum. Long Live D-Man and the Armadillo! |
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Posted by Hiroshi on June 03, 1997 at 15:38:30 PDT
No! Thank you for putting into words what I believe most of us true Cap fans feel. I too hate the inane postings of those who would see Cap corrupted into something grotesquesly un-Cap. Heroes Reborn is the worst thing to ever happen to the character of Captain America and to us true Cap fans who have loved him for all he truly stands for. He's the best there ever was and the best there ever will be...because he's human..not a raging war machine. |
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Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 03, 1997 at 15:55:42 PDT Hiya. Please come and take a poll on who should join Cap in the post-HR Avengers team. Void where prohibited by law... :) http://www.sigma.net/capt_am/avengers_poll.html Thanx! -DM |
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Posted by TLesch on June 04, 1997 at 16:42:45 PDT
> No! Thank you for putting into words what I believe most of us true Cap fans feel. I too hate the inane postings of those who would see Cap corrupted into something grotesquesly un-Cap. Heroes Reborn is the worst thing to ever happen to the character of Captain America and to us true Cap fans who have loved him for all he truly stands for. He's the best there ever was and the best there ever will be...because he's human..not a raging war machine. Hiroshi, you have brought up one of the best points. The best heroes have that human side. Even Superman, who is an alien, cares about us "humans". Batman is all too human. If a hero becomes inhuman, isn't he then....a villain? Maybe that garbage sells to Image fans, but I sure don't want to see it at Marvel. It just doesn't ring true. And by the way, why is Nick Fury now another oppressive government stooge? Does anyone remember the fact that he stood up to S.H.I.E.L.D. when it got too corrupt? Where's the history? Jack Kirby would be angry were he alive today! |
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Posted by Roscoe on June 04, 1997 at 18:05:44 PDT OKay, I just got Cap #9, and I had to say...what the heck? I mean, I like James Robinson's work. i love Starman and Cap #7 and 8 were pretty good. But he seriously lost me in Cap #9. The page where Captain America holds the man in the tar pit and threatens to off him...c'mon. This is horrible. The only saving grace is that it's a HR Cap and not the real deal, but this just isn't something Cap would ever think of doing. I have to say this page seriously inhibited my ability to enjoy the rest of the issue. -Roscoe |
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Posted by Arachnid on June 05, 1997 at 07:22:36 PDT
> OKay, I just got Cap #9, and I had to say...what the heck? I mean, I like James Robinson's work. i love Starman and Cap #7 and 8 were pretty good. But he seriously lost me in Cap #9. The page where Captain America holds the man in the tar pit and threatens to off him...c'mon. This is horrible. The only saving grace is that it's a HR Cap and not the real deal, but this just isn't something Cap would ever think of doing. I have to say this page seriously inhibited my ability to enjoy the rest of the issue. > -Roscoe So, this would bring up an interesting question... Is this the real Cap? Or, could it be US Agent?!?!?!? But seriously, I agree, even though I didn't get the book, this just isn't Cap's style. It reminds me of Punisher, or some such anti-hero, Wolverine or perhaps Ghost Rider. Which brings me to my next point, just who is Barney? I mean I know the brown shirt and the log car, but who is this cave man? Who does he work for? How did he get a babe like Betty? |
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Posted by Hiroshi on June 05, 1997 at 09:46:44 PDT > Hiroshi, you have brought up one of the best points. The best heroes have that human side. Even Superman, who is an alien, cares about us "humans". Batman is all too human. If a hero becomes inhuman, isn't he then....a villain? Maybe that garbage sells to Image fans, but I sure don't want to see it at Marvel. It just doesn't ring true. And by the way, why is Nick Fury now another oppressive government stooge? Does anyone remember the fact that he stood up to S.H.I.E.L.D. when it got too corrupt? Where's the history? Jack Kirby would be angry were he alive today! Concerning, Nick Fury, he's simply another victim of the "Heroes Reborn" syndrome. I don't think Rob Liefeld in particular has gotten past the adolescent mind-frame that thinks "big guns" and armament that could single-handedly wipe out all of Canada are cool. I just think its partly a symptom of the type of entertainment kids (and adults) are being exposed to in this video, MTV age of ours. What with all the shoot-em-up, "Doom" games and explosive special-effects-laden no-brainer action flicks a lot of people are conditioned for the all-flashy, quick-minute thrill. Some people simply don't want to invest the time in understanding a well-developed "human" character. It's not "cool" to them to have a superhero be human. He's got to have guns the size of a house or be ruthless in dealing with the enemy. I agree with you, a "non-human" character is a villain, no matter which sides he's apparently on. Concerning, Nick Fury again, hopefully Jim Lee (if his studio does decide to do Nick Fury for Marvel) will give our favorite super-agent a more honest treatment. I know I've gone on, but maybe there is a ray of hope here. What with the success of titles like Astro City, Starman, Leave It To Chance, etc. people seem to be yearning for more than just big guns and big muscles. I hope this trend continues. |
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Posted by TLesch on June 05, 1997 at 10:07:17 PDT > > Hiroshi, you have brought up one of the best points. The best heroes have that human side. Even Superman, who is an alien, cares about us "humans". Batman is all too human. If a hero becomes inhuman, isn't he then....a villain? Maybe that garbage sells to Image fans, but I sure don't want to see it at Marvel. It just doesn't ring true. And by the way, why is Nick Fury now another oppressive government stooge? Does anyone remember the fact that he stood up to S.H.I.E.L.D. when it got too corrupt? Where's the history? Jack Kirby would be angry were he alive today! > Concerning, Nick Fury, he's simply another victim of the "Heroes Reborn" syndrome. I don't think Rob Liefeld in particular has gotten past the adolescent mind-frame that thinks "big guns" and armament that could single-handedly wipe out all of Canada are cool. I just think its partly a symptom of the type of entertainment kids (and adults) are being exposed to in this video, MTV age of ours. What with all the shoot-em-up, "Doom" games and explosive special-effects-laden no-brainer action flicks a lot of people are conditioned for the all-flashy, quick-minute thrill. Some people simply don't want to invest the time in understanding a well-developed "human" character. It's not "cool" to them to have a superhero be human. He's got to have guns the size of a house or be ruthless in dealing with the enemy. I agree with you, a "non-human" character is a villain, no matter which sides he's apparently on. Concerning, Nick Fury again, hopefully Jim Lee (if his studio does decide to do Nick Fury for Marvel) will give our favorite super-agent a more honest treatment. I know I've gone on, but maybe there is a ray of hope here. What with the success of titles like Astro City, Starman, Leave It To Chance, etc. people seem to be yearning for more than just big guns and big muscles. I hope this trend continues. |
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Posted by Batroc on June 06, 1997 at 05:37:15 PDT
> OKay, I just got Cap #9, and I had to say...what the heck? I mean, I like James Robinson's work. i love Starman and Cap #7 and 8 were pretty good. But he seriously lost me in Cap #9. The page where Captain America holds the man in the tar pit and threatens to off him...c'mon. This is horrible. The only saving grace is that it's a HR Cap and not the real deal, but this just isn't something Cap would ever think of doing. I have to say this page seriously inhibited my ability to enjoy the rest of the issue. |
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Posted by Hiroshi on June 06, 1997 at 09:18:27 PDT > I hope you're right! I think the Steranko Nick was the best, I miss it. Lee seems to have the necessary nostalgia. Thanx for your comments! You're welcome, m'friend! Speaking of Steranko, is he still breathing? He basically dropped off the face of the earth. |
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Posted by Batroc on June 06, 1997 at 10:00:43 PDT
> > I hope you're right! I think the Steranko Nick was the best, I miss it. Lee seems to have the necessary nostalgia. Thanx for your comments! |
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 06, 1997 at 10:01:01 PDT > > I hope you're right! I think the Steranko Nick was the best, I miss it. Lee seems to have the necessary nostalgia. Thanx for your comments! > You're welcome, m'friend! Speaking of Steranko, is he still breathing? He basically dropped off the face of the earth. I believe that Steranko passed away a few years ago. Ned |
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Posted by Bucky on June 06, 1997 at 10:20:07 PDT
Ha! That scummy bastard Liefeld is off Cap! That loser not only desecrated Cap's uniform with that stupid winged thing on his head, but the storyline was absolutely pathetic! And now he thinks we're supposed to feel sorry for him and buy his crappy 'Agent America?' Not a chance! Who's with me? |
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 06, 1997 at 11:47:12 PDT > > > I hope you're right! I think the Steranko Nick was the best, I miss it. Lee seems to have the necessary nostalgia. Thanx for your comments! > > You're welcome, m'friend! Speaking of Steranko, is he still breathing? He basically dropped off the face of the earth. > I believe that Steranko passed away a few years ago. > Ned Ned!! He ain't dead!! I asked Kurt a few months ago!! I deserve thanks!
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Posted by David Medinnus on June 06, 1997 at 12:11:25 PDT > Ha! That scummy bastard Liefeld is off Cap! That loser not only desecrated Cap's uniform with that stupid winged thing on his head, but the storyline was absolutely pathetic! And now he thinks we're supposed to feel sorry for him and buy his crappy 'Agent America?' Not a chance! Who's with me? NOT me. He'd have to do something MUCH worse than he could ever do in the comics world for me to wish him dead. Even in jest. -DM |
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 06, 1997 at 12:37:12 PDT Well, not really but I am #4000!! Do I get a reward or something? Cya
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 06, 1997 at 12:41:31 PDT
> > OKay, I just got Cap #9, and I had to say...what the heck? I mean, I like James Robinson's work. i love Starman and Cap #7 and 8 were pretty good. But he seriously lost me in Cap #9. The page where Captain America holds the man in the tar pit and threatens to off him...c'mon. This is horrible. The only saving grace is that it's a HR Cap and not the real deal, but this just isn't something Cap would ever think of doing. I have to say this page seriously inhibited my ability to enjoy the rest of the issue. Hmmmm...I wonder how the real Cap would do it..... Cya
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Posted by Batroc on June 06, 1997 at 12:53:20 PDT
Dear Skull/Goblin/Citizen Plaid, |
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Posted by G on June 06, 1997 at 13:16:28 PDT Your words ring true. I am a military man with two young sons. I find it harder and harder to find examples of patriots, non-voilent heroes that they can follow. Captain America as corny as it may sound has stood for what my father taught me and I hope to teach my boys. Stand up for the little man, never glorify war or violence. It is a last resort. I also want to thank who ever created this site. It is a great place to come and chat and it is good to find folks who still believe in the American way. I read another note here that mentioned that flag-burners, neo nazis, skinheads. They shouldn't be dragged out an shot. They have a right to there rights being in this great country. We as individuals bear the burden to confront, to teach our children that hate, ruling by ignorance and fear, that is not America. It is freedom to do those things that tick off others. It is also the freedom to speak against those issues that bother you. Way to go Captain America!!
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 06, 1997 at 13:24:14 PDT
> Dear Skull/Goblin/Citizen Plaid, What I meant was how would Cap get the Son of Serpent to talk? Would he say,"Look son, if you don't tell me what your cronies are doing they're going to kill alot of people."?
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Posted by Batroc on June 06, 1997 at 13:35:20 PDT
> > Dear Skull/Goblin/Citizen Plaid, |
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Posted by Batroc on June 06, 1997 at 13:47:34 PDT
> > > Dear Skull/Goblin/Citizen Plaid, |
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Posted by TLesch on June 06, 1997 at 15:17:36 PDT > Your words ring true. I am a military man with two young sons. I find it harder and harder to find examples of patriots, non-voilent heroes that they can follow. Captain America as corny as it may sound has stood for what my father taught me and I hope to teach my boys. Stand up for the little man, never glorify war or violence. It is a last resort. I also want to thank who ever created this site. It is a great place to come and chat and it is good to find folks who still believe in the American way. > I read another note here that mentioned that flag-burners, neo nazis, skinheads. They shouldn't be dragged out an shot. They have a right to there rights being in this great country. We as individuals bear the burden to confront, to teach our children that hate, ruling by ignorance and fear, that is not America. It is freedom to do those things that tick off others. It is also the freedom to speak against those issues that bother you. Way to go Captain America!! G, YOU are a hero. Your words are as true as they are eloquent. Thanx. |
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Posted by TLesch on June 06, 1997 at 15:23:20 PDT > > > > I hope you're right! I think the Steranko Nick was the best, I miss it. Lee seems to have the necessary nostalgia. Thanx for your comments! > > > You're welcome, m'friend! Speaking of Steranko, is he still breathing? He basically dropped off the face of the earth. > > I believe that Steranko passed away a few years ago. > > Ned > Ned!! He ain't dead!! I asked Kurt a few months ago!! I deserve thanks! > > |
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 06, 1997 at 18:08:11 PDT > > > > > I hope you're right! I think the Steranko Nick was the best, I miss it. Lee seems to have the necessary nostalgia. Thanx for your comments! > > > > You're welcome, m'friend! Speaking of Steranko, is he still breathing? He basically dropped off the face of the earth. > > > I believe that Steranko passed away a few years ago. > > > Ned > > Ned!! He ain't dead!! I asked Kurt a few months ago!! I deserve thanks! > > > > Oh Great!!!! First you thank Plaidy over me and then to top it off you say that he and I are like minded!!!! I may never talk to you again....hmmph!!!! A Thankless Ned |
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 06, 1997 at 18:12:14 PDT > > Ha! That scummy bastard Liefeld is off Cap! That loser not only desecrated Cap's uniform with that stupid winged thing on his head, but the storyline was absolutely pathetic! And now he thinks we're supposed to feel sorry for him and buy his crappy 'Agent America?' Not a chance! Who's with me? > NOT me. > He'd have to do something MUCH worse than he could ever do in the comics world for me to wish him dead. Even in jest. > -DM ....but David...would you at least agree that he deserves maiming or at least a good whupping???? An Inquiring Ned |
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 06, 1997 at 18:14:29 PDT > Well, not really but I am #4000!! Do I get a reward or something?
> Hey Plaidy...it just isn't the same since you missed all of the others. I didn't see you posting for the times that you missed......uh oh...I may have given him a new idea.... Plaid Goblin: "Hey!!!! I'm #4187!!! Do I get a prize?" A Sorrowful Ned |
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Posted by TLesch on June 06, 1997 at 18:20:00 PDT > > > > > > I hope you're right! I think the Steranko Nick was the best, I miss it. Lee seems to have the necessary nostalgia. Thanx for your comments! > > > > > You're welcome, m'friend! Speaking of Steranko, is he still breathing? He basically dropped off the face of the earth. > > > > I believe that Steranko passed away a few years ago. > > > > Ned > > > Ned!! He ain't dead!! I asked Kurt a few months ago!! I deserve thanks! > > > > > > > Oh Great!!!! First you thank Plaidy over me and then to top it off you say that he and I are like minded!!!! I may never talk to you again....hmmph!!!! > A Thankless Ned Apologizing For His Thanks |
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Posted by TLesch on June 06, 1997 at 18:27:19 PDT > > > Ha! That scummy bastard Liefeld is off Cap! That loser not only desecrated Cap's uniform with that stupid winged thing on his head, but the storyline was absolutely pathetic! And now he thinks we're supposed to feel sorry for him and buy his crappy 'Agent America?' Not a chance! Who's with me? > > NOT me. > > He'd have to do something MUCH worse than he could ever do in the comics world for me to wish him dead. Even in jest. > > -DM > ....but David...would you at least agree that he deserves maiming or at least a good whupping???? > An Inquiring Ned Yeah, c'mon! He at least needs to be made to cry like a little girl...while wearing the outfit of his female Robi- oh, I mean Bucky... |
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Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 06, 1997 at 19:23:12 PDT > Well, not really but I am #4000!! Do I get a reward or something? What part of "NO!" don't you understand? Please leave these bandwidth-wasting off-topic messages where they belong...on other boards!!! Aaaaargh! -DM |
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Posted by David Medinnus on June 06, 1997 at 19:25:16 PDT
Nahh. Kill him first. More humane. :) -DM |
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Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 06, 1997 at 20:14:41 PDT > > Well, not really but I am #4000!! Do I get a reward or something? > What part of "NO!" don't you understand? Uhh...the "N" part? C'mon lighten up!! It's all just good clean fun! Alvaro lets me do it!! I know when you get a good number you have a certain urge to post it don't you? To notify the world! No? Then I guess I'm just a rebel for whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 07, 1997 at 07:54:33 PDT > > > > Ha! That scummy bastard Liefeld is off Cap! That loser not only desecrated Cap's uniform with that stupid winged thing on his head, but the storyline was absolutely pathetic! And now he thinks we're supposed to feel sorry for him and buy his crappy 'Agent America?' Not a chance! Who's with me? > > > NOT me. > > > He'd have to do something MUCH worse than he could ever do in the comics world for me to wish him dead. Even in jest. > > > -DM > > ....but David...would you at least agree that he deserves maiming or at least a good whupping???? > > An Inquiring Ned > Yeah, c'mon! He at least needs to be made to cry like a little girl...while wearing the outfit of his female Robi- oh, I mean Bucky...
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 07, 1997 at 07:55:51 PDT
> > Nahh. Kill him first. More humane. :) > -DM Come on David. Nothing is more american than the Bee Gees..I bet that Cap listened to them in the 70's. |
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Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 07, 1997 at 07:59:24 PDT > > > > > > > I hope you're right! I think the Steranko Nick was the best, I miss it. Lee seems to have the necessary nostalgia. Thanx for your comments! > > > > > > You're welcome, m'friend! Speaking of Steranko, is he still breathing? He basically dropped off the face of the earth. > > > > > I believe that Steranko passed away a few years ago. > > > > > Ned > > > > Ned!! He ain't dead!! I asked Kurt a few months ago!! I deserve thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Oh Great!!!! First you thank Plaidy over me and then to top it off you say that he and I are like minded!!!! I may never talk to you again....hmmph!!!! > > A Thankless Ned > Apologizing For His Thanks I don't hate the Skull. In fact, the fact that we seem to think along the same lines, as far as humor, frghtens the heck outta me. |
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Posted by Steven G. O'Connell on June 07, 1997 at 08:00:43 PDT » > > > > > I believe that Steranko passed away a few years ago.
As far as comic work, he's going to be doing a variant cover for David Mack's "Kabuki" when it makes the move to Image starting in October. I know he's interested in doing comics, but it won't be traditional SteveO |
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Posted by Lucky on June 07, 1997 at 10:09:21 PDT I am anxious to read through the new issue, although I probably won't buy it until the real Cap returns, because I figure we vote with our money. However, the question of how CA faces the means vs. ends delimma is very interesting. What CA stands for is not just cheesy black-and-white morality, but something very unique to us in the '90s: Long-term thinking, and remembering intangible values of how to be a whole hero -- not just a tactician with a helpful agenda. In other words he sheds light on us. The real trap of acting like a vengeful vigilante like The Punisher and Wolverine is not whether or not you NEED the information (the "justifying" end) to save others. That's a blind. The trap is it's a cheap way to win, and leaves nothing behind. Next time you are tempted, what is there to hold you back? It's simple gratification. To quote another character and comic entirely "We've made killing too easy". (Where's that from, fellow fans?) Likewise, we've made being a hero too easy. It should take imagination, depth, intelligence or otherwise what does "hero" mean? Struggling with limitation and power is what makes Cap Cap. If he ditches this whenever he runs into a sitaution that requires a little effort, he ditches his shield, Avengers card, red boots and gauntlets as well. The idea behind Captain America epitomizes the delimma we all face in a world of cold efficiency, impatience and speed. He has to draw a line and NO short term benefit can bring him across it or he stops being Cap. He has to REFUSE to let the situation dictate terms to him, and look for the magical Third Alternative. That's where the right answer always lies, and only the great ones find it because they refuse to give up early. The less imaginative heroes will never discover this because they take the off-ramp of thuggery on their way to being a hero -- unless they have a living example made by somebody who refuses to be lazy, simple minded or cheap. Cap has to use a different stick to measure his actions with. He has to live up to something better, something richer, and something that, win-lose-or draw was worth doing anyway albeit it's more challenging. That's what makes him a leader. P.S. See, what's cool is that Cap is still allegory, albeit in spite of mediocre writing at Marvel now. |
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Posted by A.K.A. on June 07, 1997 at 13:04:55 PDT > > Ha! That scummy bastard Liefeld is off Cap! That loser not only desecrated Cap's uniform with that stupid winged thing on his head, but the storyline was absolutely pathetic! And now he thinks we're supposed to feel sorry for him and buy his crappy 'Agent America?' Not a chance! Who's with me? > NOT me. > He'd have to do something MUCH worse than he could ever do in the comics world for me to wish him dead. Even in jest. > -DM NOT DEATH BUT HE SHOULD GO BA..............AHH WHAT THE HELL DIE LIEFELD DI......NOT DEATH BUT IMMORTAL SUFFERING |
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Posted by Venom 2099 on June 07, 1997 at 19:41:45 PDT > I am anxious to read through the new issue, although I probably won't buy it until the real Cap returns, because I figure we vote with our money. > However, the question of how CA faces the means vs. ends delimma is very interesting. > What CA stands for is not just cheesy black-and-white morality, but something very unique to us in the '90s: Long-term thinking, and remembering intangible values of how to be a whole hero -- not just a tactician with a helpful agenda. In other words he sheds light on us. > The real trap of acting like a vengeful vigilante like The Punisher and Wolverine is not whether or not you NEED the information (the "justifying" end) to save others. That's a blind. The trap is it's a cheap way to win, and leaves nothing behind. Next time you are tempted, what is there to hold you back? It's simple gratification. > To quote another character and comic entirely "We've made killing too easy". (Where's that from, fellow fans?)
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