Captain America Message Board

June 1997 Archives C



Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (734)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 15, 1997 at 05:15:14 PDT
in reply to Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (733), posted by Hal/Wally in 2000 on June 14, 1997 at 20:38:40 PDT

> I attended the Heroes Return question and answer session at Heroes Con today and learned the following. Sharon Carter will be back, Cap. to return to Japan and question Americas involvement in the tradations of other nations. There is going to be a WWII Invaders issue, Cap. will seek out someone to train incase he ever vansishes again. And more info to come tommorow.

> Hal.

I'm psyched that Waid is coming back to this book, but......this "training" thing smacks of another Bucky.....one Robin in two universes is enough. Hasn't Cap made several statements concerning the unwarrented dangers of having sidekicks??? ...or was that on in having younger sidekicks.....or maybe it was a roundhouse kick....Hey!!!! This is a kick!!!!


A Kung-Fu Fighting Ned

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Captain America: The Classic Search (735)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 15, 1997 at 05:38:19 PDT
in reply to Captain America: The Classic Years (731), posted by Edward Strickland on June 14, 1997 at 10:50:25 PDT

> I am interested in finding out if anyone has a copy of the 2-volume
> Captain America: The Classic Years for sale and at what price.

Wow....you're the second person who has come here looking for this in the past month. A friend of mine owns a comic store in Clark Summit, Pa. He has one, but I'm not sure what he wants for it. You should know that it came out 7 years ago and it originally sold for $75 .....I haven't seen many around. Eric's comic shop is called "Unknown Comics" and you should be able to get his number from an information search on the web. I don't have his number or address in front of me....good luck.


Ned Leeds Jr.

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Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (736)

Posted by Red Norvell on June 15, 1997 at 06:08:14 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (690), posted by Bubba2 on June 12, 1997 at 15:00:32 PDT

> >
> > Rob Liefeld . Either him, or Mike Deodato . Note that Mike
> > did a cover of Avengers once ( I just can't remember which
> > number it was that he drew ) .

> > jamie

>
> Yep, good ol' Robbie! Let's take a ride through his first issue and see what a great artist he is on Cap. Nazis with no swatiskas and muffler looking guns, Cap with two facial expressions, gloves that mysteriously disapper, reappear, move for no apparent reason, a shield that goes from one arm to another without any reason, a Cap that's 6 feet tall, no make that 10 feet tall! Other artistic qualities--a TV with no plug, furniture that mysteriously moves around the room, food that looks like a cubist drew it, bad guys that all look like Spider-Man, and a wife with ankles so thin that they can't possibly support her weight. And all this artistic quality in issue #1. Wow! Rob is such a consistent and marvelous artist, huh?

> Happy Birthday,

> Bubba2

I've also noticed that Rob tries to incorporate his own face into almost every male character. It's very noticable with Cap, but I find that even Thor looks like him. Has anyone else noticed this? Maybe it's just coincedence...

-Red Norvell

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Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (737)

Posted by Hal/Wally in 2000 on June 15, 1997 at 07:15:59 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (734), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 15, 1997 at 05:15:14 PDT

> > I attended the Heroes Return question and answer session at Heroes Con today and learned the following. Sharon Carter will be back, Cap. to return to Japan and question Americas involvement in the tradations of other nations. There is going to be a WWII Invaders issue, Cap. will seek out someone to train incase he ever vansishes again. And more info to come tommorow.

> > Hal.

> I'm psyched that Waid is coming back to this book, but......this "training" thing smacks of another Bucky.....one Robin in two universes is enough. Hasn't Cap made several statements concerning the unwarrented dangers of having sidekicks??? ...or was that on in having younger sidekicks.....or maybe it was a roundhouse kick....Hey!!!! This is a kick!!!!

>
> A Kung-Fu Fighting Ned

Ned they said it would not be a sidekick, that the person would not be around all that much. It was just incase Cap. leaves again, ex. Froze in WWII, and Heroes Resuck. .

Hal

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RE: HEROES REBORN (738)

Posted by THE ORIGINAL ZEMO on June 15, 1997 at 09:01:16 PDT

THIS NEW HEROES REBORN SERIES IS AN EXCITING REJUVIANTION OF COMIC BOOK LORE. IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS A SIGNED NUMBER ONE ISSUE OF CAPTAIN AMERICA: HEROES REBORN PLEASE INFORM IF YOU WANT TO SELL. THIS IS MY FIRST TIME ON THE NET AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW EXCITED I AM TO FIND A CAPTAIN AMERICA WEBSITE!!!!!
ALSO IF ANYONE HAS ANY ODD CAP MERCHANDISE I AM VERY INTERESTED. THANKS.

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First Kurt Busiek, Now Walt Simonson?? (739)

Posted by Batroc on June 15, 1997 at 11:19:56 PDT

Kurt left the board last week. Now, I see a post from someone
named Walter Simonson. It is almost too good to be true. Now,
maybe we can ask him unusual and annoying questions like we did
Kurt!! We're not worthy!!! THE LEAPER.....

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Re: First Kurt Busiek, Now Walt Simonson?? (740)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 15, 1997 at 11:54:45 PDT
in reply to First Kurt Busiek, Now Walt Simonson?? (739), posted by Batroc on June 15, 1997 at 11:19:56 PDT

> Kurt left the board last week. Now, I see a post from someone
> named Walter Simonson. It is almost too good to be true. Now,
> maybe we can ask him unusual and annoying questions like we did
> Kurt!! We're not worthy!!! THE LEAPER.....

Yeah!! And now we can name the subjects of our posts,"Hey,Walt!" over and over and over and over again!!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (741)

Posted by Falcon on June 15, 1997 at 12:14:21 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (720), posted by Michael Kaiser on June 13, 1997 at 22:30:45 PDT


>
> > Okay then. I'll see what I can do. I'm eager to see anything TLesch might have to contribute. On a slightly different note, how does one post something on a message board?

> > Falcon

> I'm assuming you mean a New message? Just scroll to the bottom of the screen. There is a box down there for new messages.

> Mike....

Actually, I meant how does one attach a file.

Falcon

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Re: Secret Wars (742)

Posted by Falcon on June 15, 1997 at 12:21:32 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (728), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 14, 1997 at 06:31:09 PDT


> >
> > > I would have to say that Zeck's work in SW had its ups and downs. Probably the reason for its somewhat substandard look (compared to Zeck's other stuff) might have been Zeck's commitment to other stuff at the time (I'm not sure about that; wasn't he doing Captain America then?), not to mention the fact that he had all these heros and villains to draw many of which he had no prior experience in drawing.

> > > Falcon

> > I think (if memory serves; could be wrong) that Zeck left Cap to do Secret Wars....I think that's why I never bought Secret Wars (until years later).

> > Rob

> Rob...that is my memory too. We must get our memory chips at the same place!!!! Not drawing a character doesn't hold water as an excuse for lame artwork. Otherwise, I wouldn't dislike Liefeld as much....although Agent America does look pretty good...*snicker*

>
> A Baaaaaaad Ned

I guess you're right. I can't really make an excuse for MZ; except, perhaps that he sure had a lot of characters to draw. Another reason for the shabby look of SW, perhaps, is the fact that Bob Layton pencilled a few issues in between, and his work didn't seem up to par either.

Falcon

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Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (743)

Posted by Falcon on June 15, 1997 at 12:23:14 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (736), posted by Red Norvell on June 15, 1997 at 06:08:14 PDT


> > >
> > > Rob Liefeld . Either him, or Mike Deodato . Note that Mike
> > > did a cover of Avengers once ( I just can't remember which
> > > number it was that he drew ) .

> > > jamie

> >
> > Yep, good ol' Robbie! Let's take a ride through his first issue and see what a great artist he is on Cap. Nazis with no swatiskas and muffler looking guns, Cap with two facial expressions, gloves that mysteriously disapper, reappear, move for no apparent reason, a shield that goes from one arm to another without any reason, a Cap that's 6 feet tall, no make that 10 feet tall! Other artistic qualities--a TV with no plug, furniture that mysteriously moves around the room, food that looks like a cubist drew it, bad guys that all look like Spider-Man, and a wife with ankles so thin that they can't possibly support her weight. And all this artistic quality in issue #1. Wow! Rob is such a consistent and marvelous artist, huh?

> > Happy Birthday,

> > Bubba2

> I've also noticed that Rob tries to incorporate his own face into almost every male character. It's very noticable with Cap, but I find that even Thor looks like him. Has anyone else noticed this? Maybe it's just coincedence...

> -Red Norvell

Actually, I have noticed that too. Very odd.

Falcon

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Re: First Kurt Busiek, Now Walt Simonson?? (744)

Posted by Batroc on June 15, 1997 at 14:28:18 PDT
in reply to Re: First Kurt Busiek, Now Walt Simonson?? (740), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 15, 1997 at 11:54:45 PDT

> > Kurt left the board last week. Now, I see a post from someone
> > named Walter Simonson. It is almost too good to be true. Now,
> > maybe we can ask him unusual and annoying questions like we did
> > Kurt!! We're not worthy!!! THE LEAPER.....
> Yeah!! And now we can name the subjects of our posts,"Hey,Walt!" over and over and over and over again!!!
»
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>>I meant to post this on the Avengers Board. That is where Kurt always hung out. (there and the Thunderbolts) Walt is the new Avengers writer until Heroes Return.
...Just rambling to myself...Batroc the Leaper

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Scripts (745)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on June 15, 1997 at 18:03:42 PDT


Does anybody have an example of a comic book script they could send me? The reason I'm asking is that I'm getting ready to submit and I would like to know the format.

Thanks
Tobin
CharlesBabbage@msn.com

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Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (746)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 15, 1997 at 18:35:26 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (743), posted by Falcon on June 15, 1997 at 12:23:14 PDT

>
> > > >
> > > > Rob Liefeld . Either him, or Mike Deodato . Note that Mike
> > > > did a cover of Avengers once ( I just can't remember which
> > > > number it was that he drew ) .

> > > > jamie

> > >
> > > Yep, good ol' Robbie! Let's take a ride through his first issue and see what a great artist he is on Cap. Nazis with no swatiskas and muffler looking guns, Cap with two facial expressions, gloves that mysteriously disapper, reappear, move for no apparent reason, a shield that goes from one arm to another without any reason, a Cap that's 6 feet tall, no make that 10 feet tall! Other artistic qualities--a TV with no plug, furniture that mysteriously moves around the room, food that looks like a cubist drew it, bad guys that all look like Spider-Man, and a wife with ankles so thin that they can't possibly support her weight. And all this artistic quality in issue #1. Wow! Rob is such a consistent and marvelous artist, huh?

> > > Happy Birthday,

> > > Bubba2

> > I've also noticed that Rob tries to incorporate his own face into almost every male character. It's very noticable with Cap, but I find that even Thor looks like him. Has anyone else noticed this? Maybe it's just coincedence...

> > -Red Norvell

> Actually, I have noticed that too. Very odd.

> Falcon

I've also noticed that! It's strange his facial features, the way he opens his mouth, his hair style even!! Weird.


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (747)

Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 15, 1997 at 20:01:49 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (737), posted by Hal/Wally in 2000 on June 15, 1997 at 07:15:59 PDT

> > > I attended the Heroes Return question and answer session at Heroes Con today and learned the following. Sharon Carter will be back, Cap. to return to Japan and question Americas involvement in the tradations of other nations. There is going to be a WWII Invaders issue, Cap. will seek out someone to train incase he ever vansishes again. And more info to come tommorow.

> > > Hal.

> > I'm psyched that Waid is coming back to this book, but......this "training" thing smacks of another Bucky.....one Robin in two universes is enough. Hasn't Cap made several statements concerning the unwarrented dangers of having sidekicks??? ...or was that on in having younger sidekicks.....or maybe it was a roundhouse kick....Hey!!!! This is a kick!!!!

> >
> > A Kung-Fu Fighting Ned

> Ned they said it would not be a sidekick, that the person would not be around all that much. It was just incase Cap. leaves again, ex. Froze in WWII, and Heroes Resuck. .

> Hal

Gee I"m glad Waid and Garney are returning but I think Cap looking around for a replacement is a bit much. It isn't as if there aren't 3 bizillion other Marvel super heroes to take over once Cap is "gone".

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Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (748)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 16, 1997 at 06:33:30 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (747), posted by Michael Kaiser on June 15, 1997 at 20:01:49 PDT

> > > > I attended the Heroes Return question and answer session at Heroes Con today and learned the following. Sharon Carter will be back, Cap. to return to Japan and question Americas involvement in the tradations of other nations. There is going to be a WWII Invaders issue, Cap. will seek out someone to train incase he ever vansishes again. And more info to come tommorow.

> > > > Hal.

> > > I'm psyched that Waid is coming back to this book, but......this "training" thing smacks of another Bucky.....one Robin in two universes is enough. Hasn't Cap made several statements concerning the unwarrented dangers of having sidekicks??? ...or was that on in having younger sidekicks.....or maybe it was a roundhouse kick....Hey!!!! This is a kick!!!!

> > >
> > > A Kung-Fu Fighting Ned

> > Ned they said it would not be a sidekick, that the person would not be around all that much. It was just incase Cap. leaves again, ex. Froze in WWII, and Heroes Resuck. .

> > Hal

> Gee I"m glad Waid and Garney are returning but I think Cap looking around for a replacement is a bit much. It isn't as if there aren't 3 bizillion other Marvel super heroes to take over once Cap is "gone".

Good point... there are lots of heroes in the Marvel universe.......look at Heroes Reborn ....our world survived just fine, although we missed them.
Another thing to look at here is the fact that Cap's track record with partners or replacements hasn't been too good. Nomad is a toned down Punisher, 50's Cap went kookoo, and USAgent was a little extreme too. I'm not sure that this is a great idea.....It doesn't strike me as a real "Cap idea". ...too narrow minded and limited in a vision....


Captain Nedica

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Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (749)

Posted by Bubba2 on June 16, 1997 at 07:04:13 PDT
in reply to Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (733), posted by Hal/Wally in 2000 on June 14, 1997 at 20:38:40 PDT

> I attended the Heroes Return question and answer session at Heroes Con today and learned the following. Sharon Carter will be back, Cap. to return to Japan and question Americas involvement in the tradations of other nations. There is going to be a WWII Invaders issue, Cap. will seek out someone to train incase he ever vansishes again. And more info to come tommorow.

> Hal.

Actually, I like the idea of Cap training a replacement. Gives room for Jack Flag to come back or even the Falcon. Who knows, it opens up lots of possibilities for new characters--even a return of USAgent. At any rate, I think this plot device works well with Cap. Yes, there are lots of heroes to stand in the gap if he's gone, but are there very many with the ideals and training of Captain America? Oh yeah, one other point, this could well open up the opportunity for Batroc to become a "good" guy! Remember the conversation he had with Cap just before Cap "died" in Gru's run? The possibilities are endless, and in Waid's hands could result in a damn good story!

Happy Birthday,

Bubba2

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Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (750)

Posted by TLesch on June 16, 1997 at 08:14:26 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (727), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 14, 1997 at 06:28:03 PDT

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Rob Liefeld . Either him, or Mike Deodato . Note that Mike
> > > > > > > > > > > did a cover of Avengers once ( I just can't remember which
> > > > > > > > > > > number it was that he drew ) .

> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > jamie

> > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Oh man, you are a brave one. Rob is an example of how you should NOT draw. He is self-taught. In other words, he knows nothing about proportion (obviously), composition, perspective...etc. He is a terrible example of an artist. I'm going to do you a huge favor; I'm going to give you the names of some phenomenal artists. Go and seek out their work, and look at how they do comics. Compare all the elements in their panels to Robs...the difference will amaze you...they are BURNE HOGARTH (Tarzan), WILL EISNER (The Spirit), WALLY WOOD and JIM STERANKO. Your comic shop dealer will help you. Good art is more than grimacing heroes, big guns and boobs, done up with a lot of croos-hatching. I'm not trying to pick on you Jamie, but seriously, you need to expose yourself to more than just today's Image clones. And that's what they are; clones. Rob can't even draw a realistic foot, for God's sake! You guys, help me out here; am I steering Jamie down the wrong road, or doing him a favor?

> > >
> > > > > > > > > Actually the foot is a bad example being one of the hardest parts of the body to draw, but I heartily agree with your opinion of Rob Liefeld's abilities. When I first found out that Rob Liefeld became popular, I was horrified. But the three artists you've named aren't the only ones you could have mentioned; John Buscema comes to mind and more contemporary artists like Steve Rude, Mike Allred , Paul Chadwick, Mike Mignola, John Romita Jr and Alan Davis.

> > >
> > > > > > > > > Falcon

> > >
> > > > > > > > -Oh, I definitely agree with you. Big John did create "How To Draw Comics the Marvel Way", after all. I'd add him and Romita to my group as "artists with really long careers". The others you mentioned are great examples too, although I was trying to illustrate what a long, distinguished career a really good artist can have. Rob L hasn't been around long enough to have the right to thumb his nose at the industry. Rob is in the stage of "paying his dues", but doesn't have the honesty to perceive it as such. He's the kind of guy that shows up at every convention, showing his portfolio to pros, then getting pissed because they actually try to give him constructive criticism on his art. As in Hollywood, you can't start believing all your own press.

> > >
> > > > > > > > -Great list though, Falcon. I hope we got through to someone.

> > >
> > > > > > > I just want to make one point about your previous message: being self-taught doesn't necessarily mean not drawing welll. It depends on how one teaches one's self. It seems that Liefeld learned to draw strictly from comic books and as any great artist will tell you (except maybe people like Frank Frazetta who allegedly uses no reference) that's not the way to go. You can see it in the way he goes through various phases in copying other peoples work and/or characters, whether it be Jim Lee, John Byrne or Simon Bisley;do you remember his knock-off of Lobo? And now he's going to expectorate this stupid knock-off of Capt. A. I'm dumbfounded that Marvel hired him.

> > >
> > > > > > > Falcon

> > >
> > > > > > I agree; I myself am a self-taught artist, and I work for Planet Hollywood. What is sad to me is that those artists who copy others' work DO get hired. Hall of Heroes comics featured clones of McFarlane (Kanuiga), Liefeld, etc. and now those guys are being touted in magazines like Wizard! Even Jim Lee aped Frank Miller with his Deathblow comic. It's a style rip-off of Sin City. But people like myself sit down with Buscemas book, Hogarth's anatomy book, LISTEN to professionals, and buy lots of books on drawing from the art store. Then, you chain yourself to a table and practice. Every day. Marvel is looking for a fast buck with stunts like HR. They need to please stockholders, pure and simple.

> > >
> > > > > Planet Hollywood? That's cool. What do you do for Planet Hollywood?

> > >
> > > > > Falcon

> > >
> > > > It isn't teaching oneself that is the problem....it is a lack of effort or commitment to improve oneself.
> > > > As for artists who immitate other artists...it is like Liefield's writing or any comic writer who doesn't read anything but comics..."A snake that feeds off of itself is eventually consumed..." The quality just is not what it should be...certainly less than if there were outside influences.

> > >
> > > > A Philosophical Ned

> > >
> > > > P.S. I used to work for Planet Hollywood and then went to Harley Davidson Cafe......sighhhh

> > >
> > > Both you and TLesch work/worked in Planet Hollywood? Small world.

> > > Falcon

> > Wow, that's freaky, unless you were just joking, Ned... but to answer Falcon's question, I am the graphic artist for the merchandise division. Yes, it's just me. Been with PH about a year and a half. I also work for Marvel Mania, since it's another of our concepts. As far as training myself, I guess I was lucky, because I've always loved to read novels in addition to comics. I once worked for TSR as an illustrator, so I've been exposed to fantasy, sci-fi, etc. I may sound like a public service message here, but really, nothing beats a good book for entertainment. Your imagination can tell you things that no movie or comic could. Ah, the wondrous mind..... Ned, what did you do at PH?

> Just joking??!??? Come on, when have youi known me to joke???....um bad question. I was in NYC for 5 years worked at PH in NYC for 3 months before landing a good waiting job at Harley and making lots more money.....BTW, it is not such a small world where PH is concerned....they have dozens of restaurants all over the world now... :-)

> A Stallone Like Ned

-Actually, there are a little over 70!

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Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (751)

Posted by TLesch on June 16, 1997 at 08:17:46 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (741), posted by Falcon on June 15, 1997 at 12:14:21 PDT

>
> >
> > > Okay then. I'll see what I can do. I'm eager to see anything TLesch might have to contribute. On a slightly different note, how does one post something on a message board?

> > > Falcon

> > I'm assuming you mean a New message? Just scroll to the bottom of the screen. There is a box down there for new messages.

> > Mike....

> Actually, I meant how does one attach a file.

> Falcon

Micheal, I'd be happy to, I just need to know the proper format...Photoshop Tiff? How big can it be? Do I attach it to a post somehow? E-mail me on this if you like....thanx!

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The Falcon to return (752)

Posted by Hal/Wally in 2000 on June 16, 1997 at 08:55:44 PDT

Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.

Hal

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I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (753)

Posted by jamie on June 16, 1997 at 09:45:01 PDT

Dear Readers,

For some strange reason, I loved Captain America # 9 .
Was it the story ? Not really . It was pretty good , but that's
not what got me .

Was it the art ? You bet ! The art changed drastically ( and
for the better, may I add ) .

The coloring also improved a thousand times better in just one
months time .

But still remember, I'm one of those looking foward to
Waid's and Garney's return .

jamie

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Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (754)

Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 16, 1997 at 12:00:58 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (748), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 16, 1997 at 06:33:30 PDT


> Good point... there are lots of heroes in the Marvel universe.......look at Heroes Reborn ....our world survived just fine, although we missed them.
> Another thing to look at here is the fact that Cap's track record with partners or replacements hasn't been too good. Nomad is a toned down Punisher, 50's Cap went kookoo, and USAgent was a little extreme too. I'm not sure that this is a great idea.....It doesn't strike me as a real "Cap idea". ...too narrow minded and limited in a vision....

Also good points, though Cap did not hand pick either John Walker (USAgent) or 50's Cap.

The problem which bugs me the most about this idea is that if Cap is looking for a replacement, then that means he intends to someday be gone/fail. That is a poor attitude and one which Cap should not possess. Besides which, the only time he WAS gone was when he was frozen. They rest were self imposed exiles and or government intervention (in which case he couldn't choose his replacement anyway).

However, on a good note, despite the fact they never work out, I like when Cap has a partner. It lets us see how truly great Cap is in comparison to his student as well as giving him someone to watch out for, protect. Gives his stories a little touch of family, instead of the lone crusader out to spread freedom and good will throughout America without ever stopping to look back at his own good deeds.

Rambling Mike....

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Re: The Falcon to return (755)

Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 16, 1997 at 12:03:19 PDT
in reply to The Falcon to return (752), posted by Hal/Wally in 2000 on June 16, 1997 at 08:55:44 PDT

> Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.

> Hal

Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.

Mike....

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........from Waid and Garney. (756)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 16, 1997 at 12:19:56 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (754), posted by Michael Kaiser on June 16, 1997 at 12:00:58 PDT

>
> > Good point... there are lots of heroes in the Marvel universe.......look at Heroes Reborn ....our world survived just fine, although we missed them.
> > Another thing to look at here is the fact that Cap's track record with partners or replacements hasn't been too good. Nomad is a toned down Punisher, 50's Cap went kookoo, and USAgent was a little extreme too. I'm not sure that this is a great idea.....It doesn't strike me as a real "Cap idea". ...too narrow minded and limited in a vision....

> Also good points, though Cap did not hand pick either John Walker (USAgent) or 50's Cap.

> The problem which bugs me the most about this idea is that if Cap is looking for a replacement, then that means he intends to someday be gone/fail. That is a poor attitude and one which Cap should not possess. Besides which, the only time he WAS gone was when he was frozen. They rest were self imposed exiles and or government intervention (in which case he couldn't choose his replacement anyway).

> However, on a good note, despite the fact they never work out, I like when Cap has a partner. It lets us see how truly great Cap is in comparison to his student as well as giving him someone to watch out for, protect. Gives his stories a little touch of family, instead of the lone crusader out to spread freedom and good will throughout America without ever stopping to look back at his own good deeds.

> Rambling Mike....

Man!!!!! We are both just full of good points!!!!! I agree that it is neat seeing Cap working with others, but not necessarily with a sidekick. When Cap is with Spidey, his experience and intellect is obvious...with the Avengers too. Guess we will just have to see...with Waid on the book, I'm willing to shell out the 2 bucks, relax, and expect good writing....even if it isn't what I would have done. :-)

An Anxious Ned

Host = 155.42.32.44 (155.42.32.44)



Re: I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (757)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 12:32:51 PDT
in reply to I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (753), posted by jamie on June 16, 1997 at 09:45:01 PDT

> Dear Readers,

> For some strange reason, I loved Captain America # 9 .
> Was it the story ? Not really . It was pretty good , but that's
> not what got me .

> Was it the art ? You bet ! The art changed drastically ( and
> for the better, may I add ) .

> The coloring also improved a thousand times better in just one
> months time .

> But still remember, I'm one of those looking foward to
> Waid's and Garney's return .

> jamie

*Ahem* As I recall you said that Waid and Garney sucked!!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca6-11.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.203)



Re: I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (758)

Posted by Batroc on June 16, 1997 at 13:52:41 PDT
in reply to Re: I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (757), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 12:32:51 PDT

> > Dear Readers,
> > For some strange reason, I loved Captain America # 9 .
> > Was it the story ? Not really . It was pretty good , but that's
> > not what got me .
> > Was it the art ? You bet ! The art changed drastically ( and
> > for the better, may I add ) .
> > The coloring also improved a thousand times better in just one
> > months time .
> > But still remember, I'm one of those looking foward to
> > Waid's and Garney's return .
> > jamie
> *Ahem* As I recall you said that Waid and Garney sucked!!!
»
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>Me too, You did, You did say Waid sucked and just about everything else on the Message Board. Oh well, is this the kinder, gentler Jamie?? Plaidy, he could be an imposter. I mean, the word "suck" was not in his post and that doesn't sound like our boy. BATROC

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: The Falcon to return (759)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 13:53:48 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (755), posted by Michael Kaiser on June 16, 1997 at 12:03:19 PDT

> > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.

> > Hal

> Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.

> Mike....

It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca3-01.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.161)



Re: The Falcon to return (760)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 13:55:17 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (759), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 13:53:48 PDT

> > > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.

> > > Hal

> > Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.

> > Mike....

> It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Whoops!! I forgot about Rick Jones!! He was a Bucky also!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, etc...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca3-01.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.161)



Re: I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (761)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 13:58:07 PDT
in reply to Re: I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (758), posted by Batroc on June 16, 1997 at 13:52:41 PDT

> > > Dear Readers,
> > > For some strange reason, I loved Captain America # 9 .
> > > Was it the story ? Not really . It was pretty good , but that's
> > > not what got me .
> > > Was it the art ? You bet ! The art changed drastically ( and
> > > for the better, may I add ) .
> > > The coloring also improved a thousand times better in just one
> > > months time .
> > > But still remember, I'm one of those looking foward to
> > > Waid's and Garney's return .
> > > jamie
> > *Ahem* As I recall you said that Waid and Garney sucked!!!
> »
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> >>Me too, You did, You did say Waid sucked and just about everything else on the Message Board. Oh well, is this the kinder, gentler Jamie?? Plaidy, he could be an imposter. I mean, the word "suck" was not in his post and that doesn't sound like our boy. BATROC

Naw, his IP address matches!! That's the same guy!! No clones or evil twins or robots or mystical dopplegangers here!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca3-01.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.161)



Re: The Falcon to return (762)

Posted by Batroc on June 16, 1997 at 13:59:29 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (755), posted by Michael Kaiser on June 16, 1997 at 12:03:19 PDT

> > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.
> > Hal
> Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.
> Mike....
>>>I have not enjoyed the Falcon in Captain America since Englehart
left many moons ago. I don't think anyone else has really bothered
to develop his character since. If Waid and Garney bring back
the Old Falcon, I'll love it. If he's just an under developed side
kick, please don't bother. Just my two cents.
The Way of Honor,,,,Batroc the Leaper...

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Re: I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (763)

Posted by Batroc on June 16, 1997 at 14:05:34 PDT
in reply to Re: I know it's kinda late, but Cap # 9 ... (761), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 13:58:07 PDT

Maybe we can have an intelligent conversation with him. Who knows??
Speaking of an intelligent conversation, I've almost finished
my research on George Maxon. Look for a profound post from Ze
Lepair ricky tick. BATROC
> > »
»

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: The Falcon to return (764)

Posted by Batroc on June 16, 1997 at 14:15:29 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (760), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 13:55:17 PDT

> > > > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.
> > > > Hal
> > > Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.
> > > Mike....
> > It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!
> »
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> Whoops!! I forgot about Rick Jones!! He was a Bucky also!!
»
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, etc...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>>The whole concept of Bucky is ludicrous. A grown man operating under the auspices of the U.S. Government takes this minor into battle situations.
Ane another thing, He goes by the name "Bucky" under the mask. Everyone knows there is a Bucky who has an almost un-natural relationship with a mysterious muscle bound man. But no one figures out the two Buckys are the same. It is worse than Clark Kent!!
I know this is almost blasphemy. However, Bucky was probably good for the golden age of teen age sidekicks, but let's go on to something else in the 90's.
Next thing I know, you will be calling for Jack Flag to come back. Sacre Bleu!!BATROC

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: ........from Waid and Garney. (765)

Posted by TLesch on June 16, 1997 at 17:03:47 PDT
in reply to ........from Waid and Garney. (756), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 16, 1997 at 12:19:56 PDT

> >
> > > Good point... there are lots of heroes in the Marvel universe.......look at Heroes Reborn ....our world survived just fine, although we missed them.
> > > Another thing to look at here is the fact that Cap's track record with partners or replacements hasn't been too good. Nomad is a toned down Punisher, 50's Cap went kookoo, and USAgent was a little extreme too. I'm not sure that this is a great idea.....It doesn't strike me as a real "Cap idea". ...too narrow minded and limited in a vision....

> > Also good points, though Cap did not hand pick either John Walker (USAgent) or 50's Cap.

> > The problem which bugs me the most about this idea is that if Cap is looking for a replacement, then that means he intends to someday be gone/fail. That is a poor attitude and one which Cap should not possess. Besides which, the only time he WAS gone was when he was frozen. They rest were self imposed exiles and or government intervention (in which case he couldn't choose his replacement anyway).

> > However, on a good note, despite the fact they never work out, I like when Cap has a partner. It lets us see how truly great Cap is in comparison to his student as well as giving him someone to watch out for, protect. Gives his stories a little touch of family, instead of the lone crusader out to spread freedom and good will throughout America without ever stopping to look back at his own good deeds.

> > Rambling Mike....

> Man!!!!! We are both just full of good points!!!!! I agree that it is neat seeing Cap working with others, but not necessarily with a sidekick. When Cap is with Spidey, his experience and intellect is obvious...with the Avengers too. Guess we will just have to see...with Waid on the book, I'm willing to shell out the 2 bucks, relax, and expect good writing....even if it isn't what I would have done. :-)

> An Anxious Ned

Access should bring over the ultimate sidekick for Cap. The swingin' SNAPPER CARR!
-Troublemakin' T

Host = pm16-04.magicnet.net (206.104.204.229)



Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (766)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 16, 1997 at 20:22:15 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (754), posted by Michael Kaiser on June 16, 1997 at 12:00:58 PDT


> The problem which bugs me the most about this idea is that if Cap is looking for a replacement, then that means he intends to someday be gone/fail. That is a poor attitude and one which Cap should not possess. Besides which, the only time he WAS gone was when he was frozen. They rest were self imposed exiles and or government intervention (in which case he couldn't choose his replacement anyway).

Y'see, I disagree. I would think that Cap would test and train as many young heroes as possible; there can NEVER be too many heroes considering the potential loss. It only takes one 'oops. didn't make it that time' to wipe out an individual or team of heroes (yeah, you and I know its not that simple and that nobody really stays dead in the MU, but thats 'fourth wall' stuff). I'd think that, in terms of having people to oppose Evil and tyranny, that the motto would be "The more the merrier".

Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Aaaaaargh! (Re: Hey,I'm #4400!!!) (767)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 16, 1997 at 20:25:55 PDT
in reply to Hey,I'm #4400!!! (684), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 12, 1997 at 12:08:22 PDT

> Hey,I'm #4400!!! Do I get a prize or something?:)

Aaaaaargh!

(I was going to ignore it, but it might give Plaid.* a smile to see the reaction...why deny him a cheap thrill or two?)

Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Artist Showcases (Was Re: Best Cap artist?) (768)

Posted by David Medinnus on June 16, 1997 at 20:30:32 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (751), posted by TLesch on June 16, 1997 at 08:17:46 PDT


> Micheal, I'd be happy to, I just need to know the proper format...Photoshop Tiff? How big can it be? Do I attach it to a post somehow? E-mail me on this if you like....thanx!

Worst case, let me know and I'll build you an FTP site for some of the graphics (.TIF is fine, .GIF or .JPG are better for the Web).

-DM

Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Re: Come on David.... (769)

Posted by David Medinnus on June 16, 1997 at 20:32:58 PDT
in reply to Re: Come on David.... (611), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 07, 1997 at 07:55:51 PDT


> Come on David. Nothing is more american than the Bee Gees..I bet that Cap listened to them in the 70's.

At no time did I say they were unAmerican.

Just....horrible. :)

-DM

Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Re: Aaaaaargh! (Re: Hey,I'm #4400!!!) (770)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 20:45:48 PDT
in reply to Aaaaaargh! (Re: Hey,I'm #4400!!!) (767), posted by Dave Medinnus on June 16, 1997 at 20:25:55 PDT

> > Hey,I'm #4400!!! Do I get a prize or something?:)
>
> Aaaaaargh!

> (I was going to ignore it, but it might give Plaid.* a smile to see the reaction...why deny him a cheap thrill or two?)

Hey, why don't you go over to the Marvel U board it's about to be #8200!!! After you report your number you will feel the raw, untamed, Power!! It's quite exhilarating!


Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

Host = bak-ca3-04.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.164)



Re: The Falcon to return (771)

Posted by deadpool on June 16, 1997 at 21:13:18 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (759), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 13:53:48 PDT


> > > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.

> > > Hal

> > Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.

> > Mike....

> It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Well i like falcon but i think it will be a waste for him to be Caps side kick again.....he has other plans for himself...but for him just appearing
everyonce in awhile thats ok :) Now for the other Bucky`s jubilee ripoff
(NO WAY SHE SUCKS) Sorry for the bad word :) The others are ok too
to be a side kick. But i would like to see Cap on his own for a little while first off. Then get a sidekick if he wants.

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Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (772)

Posted by Deadpool on June 16, 1997 at 21:24:21 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (749), posted by Bubba2 on June 16, 1997 at 07:04:13 PDT


> > I attended the Heroes Return question and answer session at Heroes Con today and learned the following. Sharon Carter will be back, Cap. to return to Japan and question Americas involvement in the tradations of other nations. There is going to be a WWII Invaders issue, Cap. will seek out someone to train incase he ever vansishes again. And more info to come tommorow.

> > Hal.

> Actually, I like the idea of Cap training a replacement. Gives room for Jack Flag to come back or even the Falcon. Who knows, it opens up lots of possibilities for new characters--even a return of USAgent. At any rate, I think this plot device works well with Cap. Yes, there are lots of heroes to stand in the gap if he's gone, but are there very many with the ideals and training of Captain America? Oh yeah, one other point, this could well open up the opportunity for Batroc to become a "good" guy! Remember the conversation he had with Cap just before Cap "died" in Gru's run? The possibilities are endless, and in Waid's hands could result in a damn good story!

> Happy Birthday,

> Bubba2

Well finally someone says something about the new characters that was forgotten when this whole mess started with Rob. I would like to see Jack Flag and Free Sprit train more with Cap since they were with him righ before he left :) Oh and Batroc i seem to know what you are talking about of him comeing good...but that will be hard :) Or was it just his honor that he was really useing? Batroc i always liked he may have been a bad guy but he was a honorable foe too.

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Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (773)

Posted by Deadpool on June 16, 1997 at 21:32:07 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (734), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 15, 1997 at 05:15:14 PDT


> > I attended the Heroes Return question and answer session at Heroes Con today and learned the following. Sharon Carter will be back, Cap. to return to Japan and question Americas involvement in the tradations of other nations. There is going to be a WWII Invaders issue, Cap. will seek out someone to train incase he ever vansishes again. And more info to come tommorow.

> > Hal.

> I'm psyched that Waid is coming back to this book, but......this "training" thing smacks of another Bucky.....one Robin in two universes is enough. Hasn't Cap made several statements concerning the unwarrented dangers of having sidekicks??? ...or was that on in having younger sidekicks.....or maybe it was a roundhouse kick....Hey!!!! This is a kick!!!!

>
> A Kung-Fu Fighting Ned

Hmmm im with you on the part of side kicks.....i would like to see Cap on his own more...and every once in awhile someone helps him....but the part with him training the others im not with you on that...Cap taught alot of people to fight :) I would like these ones to go out on their own...to help on the call from the hot line that Cap can`t get to on his own. What do you think of that? I think that may be a good idea but maybe it is dum im not sure....but i would like to see people see what a great fighter Cap is....not just with his shield and sidekicks :)

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Re: Heroes for hire board (774)

Posted by Deadpool on June 16, 1997 at 21:54:01 PDT
in reply to Heroes for hire board (672), posted by stonecold55 on June 11, 1997 at 20:33:41 PDT


> Lets get a heroes for hire board

Sounds good!!!!

Host = gators33.salsgiver.com (206.67.234.158)



Re: Buying Cap Cheaply (The Sequel) (775)

Posted by Deadpool on June 16, 1997 at 22:02:09 PDT
in reply to Buying Cap Cheaply (The Sequel) (641), posted by Batroc on June 09, 1997 at 19:36:15 PDT


> >>Those of you who are Cap neophytes, please heed the advice given
> earlier by Rob. Most of the Cap stories are found in the 50 cents
> or quarter boxes at shows and Conventions. At the Nashville
> convention I attended there were a shi'ite load of Caps (Course I
> got 'em all already) in the bargain box.
> >>I completed a run from #271 to #400 and didn't pay more than cover
> except for ish #350 and #332. Don't spend alot of money on the
> Waid's, Kirby, Byrne, works. Only true Cap fans holds the series
> and character in high esteem.
> >>>Interestingly enough, there were alot of TOS being sold at
> cut rates (Course I got 'em all already) and I couldn't really
> figure out why. I do recommend TOS as a good investment. This
> series will stand the test of time.
> >>>Course the real reason to buy comics if to enjoy comics. If you
> are into specultation, get into stocks or real estate.
> Just my two cents, BATROC THE LEAPER.

Dam Batroc im likeing you more and more :) I agree comics is for enjoyment not just for investment...that is what is wrong today with comics. They want them just for the art and who made the art. Im tired of this....i collected Cap since #180 and i loved him ever since :) Everyone buys these Images Comics for their value later since some how they come to be 25 bucks for 1 yr out which i laugh at (Spawn)
Im just glad to see someone who gets into the story too...now don`t everyone get me wrong i like good art work too but if you think about it. Wasn`t it the story that hooked you into buying Cap? I love good art work but story line has to have some credit too...and i hardly see anyone saying anything about that!!

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Re: Hold on a second! (776)

Posted by Deadpool on June 16, 1997 at 22:13:04 PDT
in reply to Hold on a second! (625), posted by Hal/Wally in 2000 on June 09, 1997 at 06:26:09 PDT


>
> >
> > > Question...
> > > I stopped reading Cap a while back...What issues did Waid and Garney
> > > work on?

> > > I might want to pick them up in the back issue bin (If I can find them)
> > > If not did Marvel release a trade paperback? If so, could someone
> > > supply me the title?

> >
> > Waid & Garney did Cap #444-454. I think #454 was the final issue of the series before the numbering re-started. I've only read their first two so far & wasn't impressed. I've recently gotten #448-453 for around 25 cents each at a convention...I imagine you could find these issues (as well as the last ten year's worth of Caps) pretty cheaply.

> > I nominate Garney's #448 as one of the worst covers in Cap history. And Cap practically tries to decapitate the Red Skull in this issue. Maybe when I get the Waid/Garney issues that I'm missing (#446, 447, 454), & actually sit down & read their run, i might enjoy it more, but from just looking through some of it, it doesn't look like it deserves all the praise it gets.

> > Rob

Well im sorry i think that Waid/Garney has done a great job. I was surprised at it myself...i gave it a chance then i began to love the story line and the art isnt bad at all ether. Thats just what i think. Maybe if you do give it a chance like i did then you may like it too :) If not thats ok everyone has their right to belive in what they want :)

> Ok first of any Garney cover was 1000 times better than any of the Robsuck covers! As for the above question yes there is a TB but I do not rember the titile. As for you paying 25 cents for some Waid Caps. can you please get me some more, I have never seen them priced that low! Usually 450 is six bucks.
> As for the story in the Waid/Garney cap. it had to be hand downs some of the best stuff in many of years for cap. I can hardly wait till August when once again we will be able to read there outstanding work.. As for the cover of #448 I tought it was ok.

> Hal/Wally in 2000

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Re: The Falcon to return (777)

Posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 06:15:05 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (764), posted by Batroc on June 16, 1997 at 14:15:29 PDT

> > > > > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.
> > > > > Hal
> > > > Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.
> > > > Mike....
> > > It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!
> > »
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull
> > »
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > Whoops!! I forgot about Rick Jones!! He was a Bucky also!!
> »
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, etc...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> >>>The whole concept of Bucky is ludicrous. A grown man operating under the auspices of the U.S. Government takes this minor into battle situations.
> Ane another thing, He goes by the name "Bucky" under the mask. Everyone knows there is a Bucky who has an almost un-natural relationship with a mysterious muscle bound man. But no one figures out the two Buckys are the same. It is worse than Clark Kent!!
> I know this is almost blasphemy. However, Bucky was probably good for the golden age of teen age sidekicks, but let's go on to something else in the 90's.
> Next thing I know, you will be calling for Jack Flag to come back. Sacre Bleu!!BATROC


The situation you just described (i.e., grown man endangering minor) brings up another, even more ludicrous situation. Remember that NOMAD book in the early 90's where Nomad carried his infant daughter on his back and then doing things like taking on gun-wielding terrorists or something? Now that was ludicrous.

Falcon

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Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (778)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 06:41:38 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (750), posted by TLesch on June 16, 1997 at 08:14:26 PDT

> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Rob Liefeld . Either him, or Mike Deodato . Note that Mike
> > > > > > > > > > > > did a cover of Avengers once ( I just can't remember which
> > > > > > > > > > > > number it was that he drew ) .

> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > jamie

> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Oh man, you are a brave one. Rob is an example of how you should NOT draw. He is self-taught. In other words, he knows nothing about proportion (obviously), composition, perspective...etc. He is a terrible example of an artist. I'm going to do you a huge favor; I'm going to give you the names of some phenomenal artists. Go and seek out their work, and look at how they do comics. Compare all the elements in their panels to Robs...the difference will amaze you...they are BURNE HOGARTH (Tarzan), WILL EISNER (The Spirit), WALLY WOOD and JIM STERANKO. Your comic shop dealer will help you. Good art is more than grimacing heroes, big guns and boobs, done up with a lot of croos-hatching. I'm not trying to pick on you Jamie, but seriously, you need to expose yourself to more than just today's Image clones. And that's what they are; clones. Rob can't even draw a realistic foot, for God's sake! You guys, help me out here; am I steering Jamie down the wrong road, or doing him a favor?

> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Actually the foot is a bad example being one of the hardest parts of the body to draw, but I heartily agree with your opinion of Rob Liefeld's abilities. When I first found out that Rob Liefeld became popular, I was horrified. But the three artists you've named aren't the only ones you could have mentioned; John Buscema comes to mind and more contemporary artists like Steve Rude, Mike Allred , Paul Chadwick, Mike Mignola, John Romita Jr and Alan Davis.

> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Falcon

> > > >
> > > > > > > > > -Oh, I definitely agree with you. Big John did create "How To Draw Comics the Marvel Way", after all. I'd add him and Romita to my group as "artists with really long careers". The others you mentioned are great examples too, although I was trying to illustrate what a long, distinguished career a really good artist can have. Rob L hasn't been around long enough to have the right to thumb his nose at the industry. Rob is in the stage of "paying his dues", but doesn't have the honesty to perceive it as such. He's the kind of guy that shows up at every convention, showing his portfolio to pros, then getting pissed because they actually try to give him constructive criticism on his art. As in Hollywood, you can't start believing all your own press.

> > > >
> > > > > > > > > -Great list though, Falcon. I hope we got through to someone.

> > > >
> > > > > > > > I just want to make one point about your previous message: being self-taught doesn't necessarily mean not drawing welll. It depends on how one teaches one's self. It seems that Liefeld learned to draw strictly from comic books and as any great artist will tell you (except maybe people like Frank Frazetta who allegedly uses no reference) that's not the way to go. You can see it in the way he goes through various phases in copying other peoples work and/or characters, whether it be Jim Lee, John Byrne or Simon Bisley;do you remember his knock-off of Lobo? And now he's going to expectorate this stupid knock-off of Capt. A. I'm dumbfounded that Marvel hired him.

> > > >
> > > > > > > > Falcon

> > > >
> > > > > > > I agree; I myself am a self-taught artist, and I work for Planet Hollywood. What is sad to me is that those artists who copy others' work DO get hired. Hall of Heroes comics featured clones of McFarlane (Kanuiga), Liefeld, etc. and now those guys are being touted in magazines like Wizard! Even Jim Lee aped Frank Miller with his Deathblow comic. It's a style rip-off of Sin City. But people like myself sit down with Buscemas book, Hogarth's anatomy book, LISTEN to professionals, and buy lots of books on drawing from the art store. Then, you chain yourself to a table and practice. Every day. Marvel is looking for a fast buck with stunts like HR. They need to please stockholders, pure and simple.

> > > >
> > > > > > Planet Hollywood? That's cool. What do you do for Planet Hollywood?

> > > >
> > > > > > Falcon

> > > >
> > > > > It isn't teaching oneself that is the problem....it is a lack of effort or commitment to improve oneself.
> > > > > As for artists who immitate other artists...it is like Liefield's writing or any comic writer who doesn't read anything but comics..."A snake that feeds off of itself is eventually consumed..." The quality just is not what it should be...certainly less than if there were outside influences.

> > > >
> > > > > A Philosophical Ned

> > > >
> > > > > P.S. I used to work for Planet Hollywood and then went to Harley Davidson Cafe......sighhhh

> > > >
> > > > Both you and TLesch work/worked in Planet Hollywood? Small world.

> > > > Falcon

> > > Wow, that's freaky, unless you were just joking, Ned... but to answer Falcon's question, I am the graphic artist for the merchandise division. Yes, it's just me. Been with PH about a year and a half. I also work for Marvel Mania, since it's another of our concepts. As far as training myself, I guess I was lucky, because I've always loved to read novels in addition to comics. I once worked for TSR as an illustrator, so I've been exposed to fantasy, sci-fi, etc. I may sound like a public service message here, but really, nothing beats a good book for entertainment. Your imagination can tell you things that no movie or comic could. Ah, the wondrous mind..... Ned, what did you do at PH?

> > Just joking??!??? Come on, when have youi known me to joke???....um bad question. I was in NYC for 5 years worked at PH in NYC for 3 months before landing a good waiting job at Harley and making lots more money.....BTW, it is not such a small world where PH is concerned....they have dozens of restaurants all over the world now... :-)

> > A Stallone Like Ned

> -Actually, there are a little over 70!

.....hmmmmm.....does that mean that there is a half of a Planet Hollywood restaurant out in Somalia that was never finished????

Host = 155.42.32.44 (155.42.32.44)



Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (779)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 06:44:50 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (766), posted by Dave Medinnus on June 16, 1997 at 20:22:15 PDT

>
> > The problem which bugs me the most about this idea is that if Cap is looking for a replacement, then that means he intends to someday be gone/fail. That is a poor attitude and one which Cap should not possess. Besides which, the only time he WAS gone was when he was frozen. They rest were self imposed exiles and or government intervention (in which case he couldn't choose his replacement anyway).
>
> Y'see, I disagree. I would think that Cap would test and train as many young heroes as possible; there can NEVER be too many heroes considering the potential loss. It only takes one 'oops. didn't make it that time' to wipe out an individual or team of heroes (yeah, you and I know its not that simple and that nobody really stays dead in the MU, but thats 'fourth wall' stuff). I'd think that, in terms of having people to oppose Evil and tyranny, that the motto would be "The more the merrier".

hmmmmm. when you put it that way, it almost makes sense....but a part of me still thinks that Cap would be hestitant to whip up all of these "heroes" to have them put their life on the line....and the "replacement" thing just doesn't ring true for Cap...

Host = 155.42.32.44 (155.42.32.44)



Secret Wars (780)

Posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 07:05:41 PDT

In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.

Falcon

Host = mpngate3.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.51)



Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (781)

Posted by TLesch on June 17, 1997 at 08:07:41 PDT
in reply to Re: Best Cap artist? ( Don't laugh ! ) (778), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 06:41:38 PDT

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rob Liefeld . Either him, or Mike Deodato . Note that Mike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > did a cover of Avengers once ( I just can't remember which
> > > > > > > > > > > > > number it was that he drew ) .

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > jamie

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Oh man, you are a brave one. Rob is an example of how you should NOT draw. He is self-taught. In other words, he knows nothing about proportion (obviously), composition, perspective...etc. He is a terrible example of an artist. I'm going to do you a huge favor; I'm going to give you the names of some phenomenal artists. Go and seek out their work, and look at how they do comics. Compare all the elements in their panels to Robs...the difference will amaze you...they are BURNE HOGARTH (Tarzan), WILL EISNER (The Spirit), WALLY WOOD and JIM STERANKO. Your comic shop dealer will help you. Good art is more than grimacing heroes, big guns and boobs, done up with a lot of croos-hatching. I'm not trying to pick on you Jamie, but seriously, you need to expose yourself to more than just today's Image clones. And that's what they are; clones. Rob can't even draw a realistic foot, for God's sake! You guys, help me out here; am I steering Jamie down the wrong road, or doing him a favor?

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Actually the foot is a bad example being one of the hardest parts of the body to draw, but I heartily agree with your opinion of Rob Liefeld's abilities. When I first found out that Rob Liefeld became popular, I was horrified. But the three artists you've named aren't the only ones you could have mentioned; John Buscema comes to mind and more contemporary artists like Steve Rude, Mike Allred , Paul Chadwick, Mike Mignola, John Romita Jr and Alan Davis.

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Falcon

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -Oh, I definitely agree with you. Big John did create "How To Draw Comics the Marvel Way", after all. I'd add him and Romita to my group as "artists with really long careers". The others you mentioned are great examples too, although I was trying to illustrate what a long, distinguished career a really good artist can have. Rob L hasn't been around long enough to have the right to thumb his nose at the industry. Rob is in the stage of "paying his dues", but doesn't have the honesty to perceive it as such. He's the kind of guy that shows up at every convention, showing his portfolio to pros, then getting pissed because they actually try to give him constructive criticism on his art. As in Hollywood, you can't start believing all your own press.

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -Great list though, Falcon. I hope we got through to someone.

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I just want to make one point about your previous message: being self-taught doesn't necessarily mean not drawing welll. It depends on how one teaches one's self. It seems that Liefeld learned to draw strictly from comic books and as any great artist will tell you (except maybe people like Frank Frazetta who allegedly uses no reference) that's not the way to go. You can see it in the way he goes through various phases in copying other peoples work and/or characters, whether it be Jim Lee, John Byrne or Simon Bisley;do you remember his knock-off of Lobo? And now he's going to expectorate this stupid knock-off of Capt. A. I'm dumbfounded that Marvel hired him.

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Falcon

> > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree; I myself am a self-taught artist, and I work for Planet Hollywood. What is sad to me is that those artists who copy others' work DO get hired. Hall of Heroes comics featured clones of McFarlane (Kanuiga), Liefeld, etc. and now those guys are being touted in magazines like Wizard! Even Jim Lee aped Frank Miller with his Deathblow comic. It's a style rip-off of Sin City. But people like myself sit down with Buscemas book, Hogarth's anatomy book, LISTEN to professionals, and buy lots of books on drawing from the art store. Then, you chain yourself to a table and practice. Every day. Marvel is looking for a fast buck with stunts like HR. They need to please stockholders, pure and simple.

> > > > >
> > > > > > > Planet Hollywood? That's cool. What do you do for Planet Hollywood?

> > > > >
> > > > > > > Falcon

> > > > >
> > > > > > It isn't teaching oneself that is the problem....it is a lack of effort or commitment to improve oneself.
> > > > > > As for artists who immitate other artists...it is like Liefield's writing or any comic writer who doesn't read anything but comics..."A snake that feeds off of itself is eventually consumed..." The quality just is not what it should be...certainly less than if there were outside influences.

> > > > >
> > > > > > A Philosophical Ned

> > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. I used to work for Planet Hollywood and then went to Harley Davidson Cafe......sighhhh

> > > > >
> > > > > Both you and TLesch work/worked in Planet Hollywood? Small world.

> > > > > Falcon

> > > > Wow, that's freaky, unless you were just joking, Ned... but to answer Falcon's question, I am the graphic artist for the merchandise division. Yes, it's just me. Been with PH about a year and a half. I also work for Marvel Mania, since it's another of our concepts. As far as training myself, I guess I was lucky, because I've always loved to read novels in addition to comics. I once worked for TSR as an illustrator, so I've been exposed to fantasy, sci-fi, etc. I may sound like a public service message here, but really, nothing beats a good book for entertainment. Your imagination can tell you things that no movie or comic could. Ah, the wondrous mind..... Ned, what did you do at PH?

> > > Just joking??!??? Come on, when have youi known me to joke???....um bad question. I was in NYC for 5 years worked at PH in NYC for 3 months before landing a good waiting job at Harley and making lots more money.....BTW, it is not such a small world where PH is concerned....they have dozens of restaurants all over the world now... :-)

> > > A Stallone Like Ned

> > -Actually, there are a little over 70!

> .....hmmmmm.....does that mean that there is a half of a Planet Hollywood restaurant out in Somalia that was never finished????

No, the Planet Hollywood has been finished, it's Somalia that needs work.

Host = pm11-13.magicnet.net (206.104.204.78)



Re: The Falcon to return (782)

Posted by TLesch on June 17, 1997 at 08:14:55 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (777), posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 06:15:05 PDT

> > > > > > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.
> > > > > > Hal
> > > > > Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.
> > > > > Mike....
> > > > It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!
> > > »
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > »
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > Whoops!! I forgot about Rick Jones!! He was a Bucky also!!
> > »
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, etc...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > >>>The whole concept of Bucky is ludicrous. A grown man operating under the auspices of the U.S. Government takes this minor into battle situations.
> > Ane another thing, He goes by the name "Bucky" under the mask. Everyone knows there is a Bucky who has an almost un-natural relationship with a mysterious muscle bound man. But no one figures out the two Buckys are the same. It is worse than Clark Kent!!
> > I know this is almost blasphemy. However, Bucky was probably good for the golden age of teen age sidekicks, but let's go on to something else in the 90's.
> > Next thing I know, you will be calling for Jack Flag to come back. Sacre Bleu!!BATROC

>
> The situation you just described (i.e., grown man endangering minor) brings up another, even more ludicrous situation. Remember that NOMAD book in the early 90's where Nomad carried his infant daughter on his back and then doing things like taking on gun-wielding terrorists or something? Now that was ludicrous.

> Falcon

-I have no proof, but my belief is that they were ripping off the Lone Wolf and Cub idea, which was originally based on a movie about a masterless Samurai and his infant son being chased by assassins. You can still find the comics in back issue bins. They're actually very good.

Host = pm11-13.magicnet.net (206.104.204.78)



Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (783)

Posted by Batroc The Leaper on June 17, 1997 at 08:19:07 PDT

This IS the definitive word on the George Maxon/Johann Schmidt controversy. Of course I'm the only guy it seems to bother.
>>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)
George Maxon was an alias used by Johann Schmidt. The Maxon/Skull was
belived to have perished in an explosion in Cap #1, but he returns in Cap #7 killing off some of his old henchmen who had been hording his funds and calling them fools for believing the Red Skull was dead. Even Cap had doubts that the Skull had perished in the explosion in Cap #1. We all know the Skull has made it out of some close calls before. Sometimes, Marvel doesn't even tell us how he got out of some of his latest death scene.
There has never been a mention of George Maxon being the first Skull and passing the mantle onto Schmidt.
To the Contrary, Cap #298 acknowledges that the role of the Red Skull was made with Schmidt in mind.
A mention of George Maxon does not exist in Invaders, Tales of Suspense, The Adventures of Captain America, of the immortal Cap #298 (The Life and Times of the Red Skull)
>>Back to my original premise, George Maxon was an alias use by Johann Schmidt/Red Skull.
The Skull is a renowned master of disguises and could have easily faked his death
in the explosion in Cap #1. The fact that Stan Lee, Byrne, Gruenwald, Roy Thomas, and others never mention Maxon only gives more credibility to my position.
>>In conclusion, I must ask,nay demand, that the Cap web site, and Terrorism Inc.
change their origin of the Skull to clearly show that JOHANN SCHMIDT IS THE ONE TRUE SKULL, THE MAN THE ROLE WAS CREATED FOR!!!
What say ye Medinnus?????Changing your origin of the Skull is the right thing
to do, it is the way of honor, It is the way of BATROC THE LEAPER.

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Lone Wolf...hmmmm... (784)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 09:13:50 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (782), posted by TLesch on June 17, 1997 at 08:14:55 PDT

> > > > > > > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.
> > > > > > > Hal
> > > > > > Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.
> > > > > > Mike....
> > > > > It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!
> > > > »
> > > > > Cya
> > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > »
> > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > Whoops!! I forgot about Rick Jones!! He was a Bucky also!!
> > > »
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, etc...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > >>>The whole concept of Bucky is ludicrous. A grown man operating under the auspices of the U.S. Government takes this minor into battle situations.
> > > Ane another thing, He goes by the name "Bucky" under the mask. Everyone knows there is a Bucky who has an almost un-natural relationship with a mysterious muscle bound man. But no one figures out the two Buckys are the same. It is worse than Clark Kent!!
> > > I know this is almost blasphemy. However, Bucky was probably good for the golden age of teen age sidekicks, but let's go on to something else in the 90's.
> > > Next thing I know, you will be calling for Jack Flag to come back. Sacre Bleu!!BATROC

> >
> > The situation you just described (i.e., grown man endangering minor) brings up another, even more ludicrous situation. Remember that NOMAD book in the early 90's where Nomad carried his infant daughter on his back and then doing things like taking on gun-wielding terrorists or something? Now that was ludicrous.

> > Falcon

> -I have no proof, but my belief is that they were ripping off the Lone Wolf and Cub idea, which was originally based on a movie about a masterless Samurai and his infant son being chased by assassins. You can still find the comics in back issue bins. They're actually very good.

......hey....Lone Wolf was first printed in the U.s. at about the same time as this Nomad/Baby thing happened....I can't remember if this thought ever occurred to me, but it makes sense.......Hey!!!! It couldn't have been....There was no obese bad guy named Kingpi...um...I mean the Slug in Lone Wolf.......Gruenwald didn't use any original ideas, did he????

Ned

Host = 155.42.32.44 (155.42.32.44)



Re: Secret Wars (785)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 09:20:28 PDT
in reply to Secret Wars (780), posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 07:05:41 PDT

> In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.

> Falcon

Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....

Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.

Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*

Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.

I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.

A Secretative Ned II

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Re: Secret Wars (786)

Posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 10:27:46 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (785), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 09:20:28 PDT

> > In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.


> > Falcon


> Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....


> Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.


> Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*


> Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.


> I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.


> A Secretative Ned II


Aye verily, the etchings in the first series didst surpass the scrawlings in the second. But who really pays attention to the second series anymore? The 1st series may have been a little shoddy as far as the writing and drawings but at least it was more or less fun to read. Can't say that about the 2nd. The only good stories that came out of SW2 were the ones found in the regular titles.

Falcon

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Re: Baby Bucky (787)

Posted by Rob on June 17, 1997 at 11:34:41 PDT
in reply to Re: The Falcon to return (777), posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 06:15:05 PDT


> The situation you just described (i.e., grown man endangering minor) brings up another, even more ludicrous situation. Remember that NOMAD book in the early 90's where Nomad carried his infant daughter on his back and then doing things like taking on gun-wielding terrorists or something? Now that was ludicrous.

> Falcon


I just bought a few NOMADs recently in a ten-cent bin & noticed that...really unrealistic & dangerous! But, on the other hand, really funny & charming too! The little box on the cover had Baby Bucky crawling around on one of the issues...dang cute!

Rob

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Captain America Comics #1 (1941) (788)

Posted by Rob on June 17, 1997 at 11:43:40 PDT
in reply to Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (783), posted by Batroc The Leaper on June 17, 1997 at 08:19:07 PDT

> >>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)

I remember that Marvel released a reprint of #1 a few years back (around 1993?), when they were reprinting the first appearances of Marvel characters. I got the reprints they did for Amazing Spider-Man #1, Avengers #1, and the first Iron Man in Tales of Suspense. But I know they did Cap #1, too. Something to keep a look out for, and it probably isn't expensive.

Rob

P.S.: Nice job with the Skull research. I looked thru my Fantasy Masterpieces for Skull appearances a few days ago, but I didn't have any with the Skull.

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1960s Cap cartoon (789)

Posted by Rob on June 17, 1997 at 12:29:33 PDT

Does anyone happen to have some info on this series such as who did the voices and who did the theme song? Or, if not Cap, then the other ones like Thor, Iron Man, etc.? I've never seen a listing of what actors performed the roles or what "group" did the music.

I once heard an actor named Keith Andes (?) talking in an old June Allyson movie and he sounded a lot like Cap in the 1960s cartoons, so I assumed that Andes played the role. But, of course, Tony Stark sounded a lot like Cary Grant in those cartoons, and he sure as heck didn't play that role. Does anyone know who performed these parts? I think that the voices of Cap and Thor were great.

Also, the music, which is sung by a chorus of male & female singers. Great tunes, great old-time style. I'd really like to get an album of the people who did it (please, no laughter). I have a recording of a 1960s group called The Living Voices, a chorus of male & female singers who worked for Henry Mancini, and they have a similar style to those cartoon themes. So, does anyone know who performed those songs and if they did any other recordings?

Rob


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Re: Captain America Comics #1 (1941) (790)

Posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 12:37:56 PDT
in reply to Captain America Comics #1 (1941) (788), posted by Rob on June 17, 1997 at 11:43:40 PDT

> > >>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)
> I remember that Marvel released a reprint of #1 a few years back (around 1993?), when they were reprinting the first appearances of Marvel characters. I got the reprints they did for Amazing Spider-Man #1, Avengers #1, and the first Iron Man in Tales of Suspense. But I know they did Cap #1, too. Something to keep a look out for, and it probably isn't expensive.
> Rob
> P.S.: Nice job with the Skull research. I looked thru my Fantasy Masterpieces for Skull appearances a few days ago, but I didn't have any with the Skull.
»
There is one, I want to say #5 or #6 that has Captain America #7
reprinted. The Skull is on the Cover in a classic Kirby stance. The Skull kills
people after playing Chopin's Funeral March. I always thought that
was something Steve Englehart thought up in Ish's #184-185.
P.S. I bought about 5 Fantasy Masterpieces in a 50 cent bin at a comic
show. Good talking to you again. THE LEAPER

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Secret Wars (791)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 12:49:07 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (786), posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 10:27:46 PDT

> > > In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.

>
> > > Falcon

>
> > Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....

>
> > Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.

>
> > Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*

>
> > Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.

>
> > I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.

>
> > A Secretative Ned II

>
> Aye verily, the etchings in the first series didst surpass the scrawlings in the second. But who really pays attention to the second series anymore? The 1st series may have been a little shoddy as far as the writing and drawings but at least it was more or less fun to read. Can't say that about the 2nd. The only good stories that came out of SW2 were the ones found in the regular titles.

> Falcon

Yeah!!!!! Do you remember when Spidey was faced with the moral dilemmna of whether to keep a solid gold notepad made by the Beyonder. He decided against it because it would upset the entire world in the effect that it would have on the gold market.....

Host = 155.42.31.201 (155.42.31.201)



Re: 1960s Cap cartoon (792)

Posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 12:49:09 PDT
in reply to 1960s Cap cartoon (789), posted by Rob on June 17, 1997 at 12:29:33 PDT

> Does anyone happen to have some info on this series such as who did the voices and who did the theme song? Or, if not Cap, then the other ones like Thor, Iron Man, etc.? I've never seen a listing of what actors performed the roles or what "group" did the music.
> I once heard an actor named Keith Andes (?) talking in an old June Allyson movie and he sounded a lot like Cap in the 1960s cartoons, so I assumed that Andes played the role. But, of course, Tony Stark sounded a lot like Cary Grant in those cartoons, and he sure as heck didn't play that role. Does anyone know who performed these parts? I think that the voices of Cap and Thor were great.
> Also, the music, which is sung by a chorus of male & female singers. Great tunes, great old-time style. I'd really like to get an album of the people who did it (please, no laughter). I have a recording of a 1960s group called The Living Voices, a chorus of male & female singers who worked for Henry Mancini, and they have a similar style to those cartoon themes. So, does anyone know who performed those songs and if they did any other recordings?
> Rob
You sure it wasn't Frank Sinatra. I always pictured him singing
the Spider Man theme. "spins a web anysize, catches thieves just
like flies, LOOK OUT there goes a Spider Man.!" This is good comedy material
for someone who does night clubs.
>>My fav.. " the ever lovin' Hulk.....Hulk.....Hulk... ain't he
unglamorae" Geez, I gotta get a life. Good luck finding the
singers. If you do find them, book 'em to do a big comic show. It
will be a hit. BATROC

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Secret Wars (793)

Posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 13:38:52 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (791), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 12:49:07 PDT

> > > > In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.


> >
> > > > Falcon


> >
> > > Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....


> >
> > > Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.


> >
> > > Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*


> >
> > > Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.


> >
> > > I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.


> >
> > > A Secretative Ned II


> >
> > Aye verily, the etchings in the first series didst surpass the scrawlings in the second. But who really pays attention to the second series anymore? The 1st series may have been a little shoddy as far as the writing and drawings but at least it was more or less fun to read. Can't say that about the 2nd. The only good stories that came out of SW2 were the ones found in the regular titles.


> > Falcon


> Yeah!!!!! Do you remember when Spidey was faced with the moral dilemmna of whether to keep a solid gold notepad made by the Beyonder. He decided against it because it would upset the entire world in the effect that it would have on the gold market.....


Er...no, which issue of which title was that?

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)



Re: Secret Wars (794)

Posted by Roscoe on June 17, 1997 at 14:14:18 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (793), posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 13:38:52 PDT

> > > > > In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.

>
> > >
> > > > > Falcon

>
> > >
> > > > Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....

>
> > >
> > > > Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.

>
> > >
> > > > Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*

>
> > >
> > > > Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.

>
> > >
> > > > I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.

>
> > >
> > > > A Secretative Ned II

>
> > >
> > > Aye verily, the etchings in the first series didst surpass the scrawlings in the second. But who really pays attention to the second series anymore? The 1st series may have been a little shoddy as far as the writing and drawings but at least it was more or less fun to read. Can't say that about the 2nd. The only good stories that came out of SW2 were the ones found in the regular titles.

>
> > > Falcon

>
> > Yeah!!!!! Do you remember when Spidey was faced with the moral dilemmna of whether to keep a solid gold notepad made by the Beyonder. He decided against it because it would upset the entire world in the effect that it would have on the gold market.....

>
> Er...no, which issue of which title was that?

> Falcon

It was in Web #6. It wasn't the notepad that was going to throw off the world economy though; one little notepad wouldn't do that. It was the fact that Spidey swiped the notepad from a huge office building that the Beyonder had transformed into pure gold. There was millions of tons of gold. Spidey wasn't sure taking the pad was right, even though it had been in a garbage can, but he decided it was time to get something for himself. Later, though, he wasn't so sure, and...I forget exactly what happened. i think someone stole the notepad from him, there ended up being a whole plot thread about it for issues and issues.

-Roscoe

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Re: Lone Wolf...hmmmm... (795)

Posted by TLesch on June 17, 1997 at 15:12:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Lone Wolf...hmmmm... (784), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 09:13:50 PDT

> > > > > > > > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.
> > > > > > > > Hal
> > > > > > > Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.
> > > > > > > Mike....
> > > > > > It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!
> > > > > »
> > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > > »
> > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > > Whoops!! I forgot about Rick Jones!! He was a Bucky also!!
> > > > »
> > > > > Cya
> > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, etc...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > >>>The whole concept of Bucky is ludicrous. A grown man operating under the auspices of the U.S. Government takes this minor into battle situations.
> > > > Ane another thing, He goes by the name "Bucky" under the mask. Everyone knows there is a Bucky who has an almost un-natural relationship with a mysterious muscle bound man. But no one figures out the two Buckys are the same. It is worse than Clark Kent!!
> > > > I know this is almost blasphemy. However, Bucky was probably good for the golden age of teen age sidekicks, but let's go on to something else in the 90's.
> > > > Next thing I know, you will be calling for Jack Flag to come back. Sacre Bleu!!BATROC

> > >
> > > The situation you just described (i.e., grown man endangering minor) brings up another, even more ludicrous situation. Remember that NOMAD book in the early 90's where Nomad carried his infant daughter on his back and then doing things like taking on gun-wielding terrorists or something? Now that was ludicrous.

> > > Falcon

> > -I have no proof, but my belief is that they were ripping off the Lone Wolf and Cub idea, which was originally based on a movie about a masterless Samurai and his infant son being chased by assassins. You can still find the comics in back issue bins. They're actually very good.

> ......hey....Lone Wolf was first printed in the U.s. at about the same time as this Nomad/Baby thing happened....I can't remember if this thought ever occurred to me, but it makes sense.......Hey!!!! It couldn't have been....There was no obese bad guy named Kingpi...um...I mean the Slug in Lone Wolf.......Gruenwald didn't use any original ideas, did he????

> Ned

-Ned, do you remember the film? I think it's now called "Shogun Assassin" or some such. I think it starred Toshiro Mifune as the "Lone Wolf" character. It was funny in parts, because the little kid would "help" Dad take out ninjas and stuff. Did you like the Lone Wolf comics? I think First put them out.

-Inscrutable T

Host = pm16-21.magicnet.net (206.104.204.246)



Classic Cap (796)

Posted by Josh on June 17, 1997 at 15:12:55 PDT

Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures. Does this reprint any early Cap tales? Is their a comic telling the history of Cap and the Red Skull in typicall comic fashion, not a tribute like Captain America: The Legend. Also I used to own a comic that was an encyclopedia of the Marvel dead. It came out in the early to mid 1980's and had an entry with the Red Skull. Could anyone tell me the name of this, and others like (dealing with both living and dead) since I'm trying to buy it. Thanks.

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Re: 1960s Cap cartoon (797)

Posted by TLesch on June 17, 1997 at 15:16:33 PDT
in reply to Re: 1960s Cap cartoon (792), posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 12:49:09 PDT

> > Does anyone happen to have some info on this series such as who did the voices and who did the theme song? Or, if not Cap, then the other ones like Thor, Iron Man, etc.? I've never seen a listing of what actors performed the roles or what "group" did the music.
> > I once heard an actor named Keith Andes (?) talking in an old June Allyson movie and he sounded a lot like Cap in the 1960s cartoons, so I assumed that Andes played the role. But, of course, Tony Stark sounded a lot like Cary Grant in those cartoons, and he sure as heck didn't play that role. Does anyone know who performed these parts? I think that the voices of Cap and Thor were great.
> > Also, the music, which is sung by a chorus of male & female singers. Great tunes, great old-time style. I'd really like to get an album of the people who did it (please, no laughter). I have a recording of a 1960s group called The Living Voices, a chorus of male & female singers who worked for Henry Mancini, and they have a similar style to those cartoon themes. So, does anyone know who performed those songs and if they did any other recordings?
> > Rob
> You sure it wasn't Frank Sinatra. I always pictured him singing
> the Spider Man theme. "spins a web anysize, catches thieves just
> like flies, LOOK OUT there goes a Spider Man.!" This is good comedy material
> for someone who does night clubs.
> >>My fav.. " the ever lovin' Hulk.....Hulk.....Hulk... ain't he
> unglamorae" Geez, I gotta get a life. Good luck finding the
> singers. If you do find them, book 'em to do a big comic show. It
> will be a hit. BATROC

-The voice of both Iron Man AND Sub-Mariner in that cartoon series was John Vernon, who played the Dean in the "Animal House" movie!

Host = pm16-21.magicnet.net (206.104.204.246)



Re: Fantasy Masterpieces (798)

Posted by Rob on June 17, 1997 at 15:24:32 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America Comics #1 (1941) (790), posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 12:37:56 PDT


> > P.S.: Nice job with the Skull research. I looked thru my Fantasy Masterpieces for Skull appearances a few days ago, but I didn't have any with the Skull.
> »
> There is one, I want to say #5 or #6 that has Captain America #7
> reprinted. The Skull is on the Cover in a classic Kirby stance. The Skull kills people after playing Chopin's Funeral March. I always thought that was something Steve Englehart thought up in Ish's #184-185.
> P.S. I bought about 5 Fantasy Masterpieces in a 50 cent bin at a comic show. Good talking to you again. THE LEAPER

Yeah, i only have around five issues of F.M.; they cost me around 3 to 6 bucks each, though. I don't have the Skull one. One of the issues I have reprints an old All-Winners Squad story. Interesting to read that, especially since it shows tension in the group, foreshadowing Stan Lee's Fantastic Four and their arguing. For example in FF #4, the Torch leaves the group & ends up finding Sub-Mariner. In the All-Winners story, the group suspect Namor of treachery and he takes off, but Toro sticks up for Subby and goes with him. That lack of group harmony is a staple of Lee's writing. The All-Winners story also shows Cap as leader of the group, foreshadowing his role as chairman of the Avengers. The All-Winners are gathered at a table in an (unamed?) headquarters, being a real group like the Avengers. Okay, technically, Cap wasn't a member of the All-Winners Squad (as I seem to remember) since that group was formed in 1946 (after Bucky died), but that wasn't explained until the 1970s.

Yeah, that bit about Chopin's funeral march was great; I didn't know Englehart got it from an old Cap story. I seem to recall hearing an old Hop Harrigan radio show from the 1940s where that theme was used by a foe; might be mistaken about that, tho; will have to check it sometime.

Rob


Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)



Re: Secret Wars (799)

Posted by TLesch on June 17, 1997 at 15:32:24 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (794), posted by Roscoe on June 17, 1997 at 14:14:18 PDT

> > > > > > In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.

> >
> > > >
> > > > > > Falcon

> >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....

> >
> > > >
> > > > > Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.

> >
> > > >
> > > > > Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*

> >
> > > >
> > > > > Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.

> >
> > > >
> > > > > I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.

> >
> > > >
> > > > > A Secretative Ned II

> >
> > > >
> > > > Aye verily, the etchings in the first series didst surpass the scrawlings in the second. But who really pays attention to the second series anymore? The 1st series may have been a little shoddy as far as the writing and drawings but at least it was more or less fun to read. Can't say that about the 2nd. The only good stories that came out of SW2 were the ones found in the regular titles.

> >
> > > > Falcon

> >
> > > Yeah!!!!! Do you remember when Spidey was faced with the moral dilemmna of whether to keep a solid gold notepad made by the Beyonder. He decided against it because it would upset the entire world in the effect that it would have on the gold market.....

> >
> > Er...no, which issue of which title was that?

> > Falcon

> It was in Web #6. It wasn't the notepad that was going to throw off the world economy though; one little notepad wouldn't do that. It was the fact that Spidey swiped the notepad from a huge office building that the Beyonder had transformed into pure gold. There was millions of tons of gold. Spidey wasn't sure taking the pad was right, even though it had been in a garbage can, but he decided it was time to get something for himself. Later, though, he wasn't so sure, and...I forget exactly what happened. i think someone stole the notepad from him, there ended up being a whole plot thread about it for issues and issues.

> -Roscoe

-There was a good SW2 story in Daredevil where the Beyonder offers him his sight back, and he refuses....pretty cool...

Host = pm16-21.magicnet.net (206.104.204.246)



Re: Classic Cap (800)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 17, 1997 at 17:32:04 PDT
in reply to Classic Cap (796), posted by Josh on June 17, 1997 at 15:12:55 PDT

> Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.

There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.

The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.


Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Re: Secret Wars (801)

Posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 17:37:13 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (799), posted by TLesch on June 17, 1997 at 15:32:24 PDT


> > > > > > > In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Falcon

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > A Secretative Ned II

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Aye verily, the etchings in the first series didst surpass the scrawlings in the second. But who really pays attention to the second series anymore? The 1st series may have been a little shoddy as far as the writing and drawings but at least it was more or less fun to read. Can't say that about the 2nd. The only good stories that came out of SW2 were the ones found in the regular titles.

> > >
> > > > > Falcon

> > >
> > > > Yeah!!!!! Do you remember when Spidey was faced with the moral dilemmna of whether to keep a solid gold notepad made by the Beyonder. He decided against it because it would upset the entire world in the effect that it would have on the gold market.....

> > >
> > > Er...no, which issue of which title was that?

> > > Falcon

> > It was in Web #6. It wasn't the notepad that was going to throw off the world economy though; one little notepad wouldn't do that. It was the fact that Spidey swiped the notepad from a huge office building that the Beyonder had transformed into pure gold. There was millions of tons of gold. Spidey wasn't sure taking the pad was right, even though it had been in a garbage can, but he decided it was time to get something for himself. Later, though, he wasn't so sure, and...I forget exactly what happened. i think someone stole the notepad from him, there ended up being a whole plot thread about it for issues and issues.

> > -Roscoe

> -There was a good SW2 story in Daredevil where the Beyonder offers him his sight back, and he refuses....pretty cool...

Actually, I think he accepted at first, but later asked the Beyonder to take the gift of sight back. I'm pretty sure because I remember him looking at a stroller-bound baby and the mother shot him dirty looks.

Falcon

Falcon

Host = 117.st-louis-005.mo.dial-access.att.net (207.146.220.117)



Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (802)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 17, 1997 at 17:37:29 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (779), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 06:44:50 PDT

> hmmmmm. when you put it that way, it almost makes sense....but a part of me still thinks that Cap would be hestitant to whip up all of these "heroes" to have them put their life on the line....and the "replacement" thing just doesn't ring true for Cap...

I dunno, I've never seen Cap go off on the "Its too dangerous a lifestyle for youths" bit for some while; either they've been forgetting BuckyAngst (tm) when writing him or he's come to the conclusion that telling them "No" just drives them underground (look at what happened to Rick Jones).


Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Re: Classic Cap (803)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 17:43:02 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (800), posted by Dave Medinnus on June 17, 1997 at 17:32:04 PDT

> > Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.

> There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.

> The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.


I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find! I think they should do an update though, for instance the Red Skull ain't dead anymore and neither is Mimic, Green Goblin I, Gamora, Pip, Drax, Thanos, Adam, Sharon Carter, Baron Stucker, Hobgoblin I, the Ringer, Vamp, and so forth! They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!

Host = bak-ca1-13.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.45)



Re: Classic Cap (804)

Posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 17:47:41 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (803), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 17:43:02 PDT


> > > Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.

> > There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.

> > The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.

>
> I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find! I think they should do an update though, for instance the Red Skull ain't dead anymore and neither is Mimic, Green Goblin I, Gamora, Pip, Drax, Thanos, Adam, Sharon Carter, Baron Stucker, Hobgoblin I, the Ringer, Vamp, and so forth! They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!

Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

Falcon

Host = 117.st-louis-005.mo.dial-access.att.net (207.146.220.117)



Re: Classic Cap (805)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 17:54:30 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (804), posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 17:47:41 PDT

>
> > > > Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.

> > > There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.

> > > The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.

> >
> > I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find! I think they should do an update though, for instance the Red Skull ain't dead anymore and neither is Mimic, Green Goblin I, Gamora, Pip, Drax, Thanos, Adam, Sharon Carter, Baron Stucker, Hobgoblin I, the Ringer, Vamp, and so forth! They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!

> >
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!

> Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

> Falcon

Yeah, I know what you're talking about!! That was the worst version ever!! It didn't give any useful information at all and it was hard to keep it together!! And before that it was Marvel Universe Update '89 which was in the same format as it always was which was great! That loose leaf crap was a joke!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!

Host = bak-ca1-13.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.45)



Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (806)

Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 17, 1997 at 18:01:54 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain Returns, as stated from Waid and Garney. (766), posted by Dave Medinnus on June 16, 1997 at 20:22:15 PDT

>
> > The problem which bugs me the most about this idea is that if Cap is looking for a replacement, then that means he intends to someday be gone/fail. That is a poor attitude and one which Cap should not possess. Besides which, the only time he WAS gone was when he was frozen. They rest were self imposed exiles and or government intervention (in which case he couldn't choose his replacement anyway).
>
> Y'see, I disagree. I would think that Cap would test and train as many young heroes as possible; there can NEVER be too many heroes considering the potential loss. It only takes one 'oops. didn't make it that time' to wipe out an individual or team of heroes (yeah, you and I know its not that simple and that nobody really stays dead in the MU, but thats 'fourth wall' stuff). I'd think that, in terms of having people to oppose Evil and tyranny, that the motto would be "The more the merrier".

Oh spreading good will and cheer if fine and dandy! That is not what I was disagreeing to. I just don't think Cap should go out looking for someone to replace him as Cap. He IS Cap. That's it. If he wants to spread his beliefs of patriotism, honor, loyalty, freedom and all that good stuff on any would be super hero that's another thing altogether, just so long as they make their own name.

But then again, far be it from me to disagree with the Captain America guru hisself. I'll shut up now.

Mike....

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Re: Classic Cap (807)

Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 17, 1997 at 18:07:21 PDT
in reply to Classic Cap (796), posted by Josh on June 17, 1997 at 15:12:55 PDT

> Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures. Does this reprint any early Cap tales? Is their a comic telling the history of Cap and the Red Skull in typicall comic fashion, not a tribute like Captain America: The Legend. Also I used to own a comic that was an encyclopedia of the Marvel dead. It came out in the early to mid 1980's and had an entry with the Red Skull. Could anyone tell me the name of this, and others like (dealing with both living and dead) since I'm trying to buy it. Thanks.

Captain America #1 has been reprinted. I'm sure of the exact date of its release but I am positive it was within the last 7-10 years because I remember when it came out. Marvel Milestones, silver border, 1.99. Something like that.

Mike....

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Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! HELP? (808)

Posted by Michael Kaiser on June 17, 1997 at 18:18:14 PDT
in reply to Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (783), posted by Batroc The Leaper on June 17, 1997 at 08:19:07 PDT

> This IS the definitive word on the George Maxon/Johann Schmidt controversy. Of course I'm the only guy it seems to bother.
> >>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)
> George Maxon was an alias used by Johann Schmidt. The Maxon/Skull was
> belived to have perished in an explosion in Cap #1, but he returns in Cap #7 killing off some of his old henchmen who had been hording his funds and calling them fools for believing the Red Skull was dead. Even Cap had doubts that the Skull had perished in the explosion in Cap #1. We all know the Skull has made it out of some close calls before. Sometimes, Marvel doesn't even tell us how he got out of some of his latest death scene.
> There has never been a mention of George Maxon being the first Skull and passing the mantle onto Schmidt.
> To the Contrary, Cap #298 acknowledges that the role of the Red Skull was made with Schmidt in mind.
> A mention of George Maxon does not exist in Invaders, Tales of Suspense, The Adventures of Captain America, of the immortal Cap #298 (The Life and Times of the Red Skull)
> >>Back to my original premise, George Maxon was an alias use by Johann Schmidt/Red Skull.
> The Skull is a renowned master of disguises and could have easily faked his death
> in the explosion in Cap #1. The fact that Stan Lee, Byrne, Gruenwald, Roy Thomas, and others never mention Maxon only gives more credibility to my position.
> >>In conclusion, I must ask,nay demand, that the Cap web site, and Terrorism Inc.
> change their origin of the Skull to clearly show that JOHANN SCHMIDT IS THE ONE TRUE SKULL, THE MAN THE ROLE WAS CREATED FOR!!!
> What say ye Medinnus?????Changing your origin of the Skull is the right thing
> to do, it is the way of honor, It is the way of BATROC THE LEAPER.

Alright all well and good. So who is Albert Malkin then? re-Cap #347

Host = e.sm1.garlic.net (208.195.162.4)



Discourse with Rob (809)

Posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 18:26:03 PDT
in reply to Re: Fantasy Masterpieces (798), posted by Rob on June 17, 1997 at 15:24:32 PDT

»
> > > P.S.: Nice job with the Skull research. I looked thru my Fantasy Masterpieces for Skull appearances a few days ago, but I didn't have any with the Skull.
> > »
> > There is one, I want to say #5 or #6 that has Captain America #7
> > reprinted. The Skull is on the Cover in a classic Kirby stance. The Skull kills people after playing Chopin's Funeral March. I always thought that was something Steve Englehart thought up in Ish's #184-185.
> > P.S. I bought about 5 Fantasy Masterpieces in a 50 cent bin at a comic show. Good talking to you again. THE LEAPER
> Yeah, i only have around five issues of F.M.; they cost me around 3 to 6 bucks each, though. I don't have the Skull one. One of the issues I have reprints an old All-Winners Squad story. Interesting to read that, especially since it shows tension in the group, foreshadowing Stan Lee's Fantastic Four and their arguing. For example in FF #4, the Torch leaves the group & ends up finding Sub-Mariner. In the All-Winners story, the group suspect Namor of treachery and he takes off, but Toro sticks up for Subby and goes with him. That lack of group harmony is a staple of Lee's writing. The All-Winners story also shows Cap as leader of the group, foreshadowing his role as chairman of the Avengers. The All-Winners are gathered at a table in an (unamed?) headquarters, being a real group like the Avengers. Okay, technically, Cap wasn't a member of the All-Winners Squad (as I seem to remember) since that group was formed in 1946 (after Bucky died), but that wasn't explained until the 1970s.
> Yeah, that bit about Chopin's funeral march was great; I didn't know Englehart got it from an old Cap story. I seem to recall hearing an old Hop Harrigan radio show from the 1940s where that theme was used by a foe; might be mistaken about that, tho; will have to check it sometime.
> Rob
»
>>I think Fantasy Masterpiece #10 is the All Winners Issue. According to Roy Thomas Revision that was The Spirit of 76 posing as Cap who has disappeared off the end of Zemo's U2.
I don't have a copy, but saw some excerpts in Giant Size Avengers #1. The Whizzer thinks Steve Rogers is a phony Cap.
>>Thanks for the tip on Captain America #1 (1941) I found a reprint at my favorite comic shop today. I had to ask the owner to look for a copy.
I feel I must recant my earlier post to be a true man of honor. Although Cap #7 said the Skull apparently perished in an explosion, it was actually a lethal injection suicide and the man was unmasked and revealed to be GEORGE MAXON. It just doesn't seem right. Roy Thomas or someone should have cleared this up a long time ago.
It could easily been claimed that Johann had faked his death, clone, disguise, you know the typical Marvel alibis. I just think Johann deserves his rightful place as the one true Skull.
I mean Thomas cleared up all the golden age discrepencies for Cap and his three golden age substitutes. Red Skull deserved the same continuity.
Oh well, I'll go on to something else trivial, for that is the way of
honor the way of BATROC the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Classic Cap (810)

Posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 18:37:23 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (805), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 17:54:30 PDT

> »
> > > > > Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.
> > > > There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.
> > > > The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.
> > »
> > > I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find! I think they should do an update though, for instance the Red Skull ain't dead anymore and neither is Mimic, Green Goblin I, Gamora, Pip, Drax, Thanos, Adam, Sharon Carter, Baron Stucker, Hobgoblin I, the Ringer, Vamp, and so forth! They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!
> > »
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull
> > »
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!
> > Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
> > Falcon
> Yeah, I know what you're talking about!! That was the worst version ever!! It didn't give any useful information at all and it was hard to keep it together!! And before that it was Marvel Universe Update '89 which was in the same format as it always was which was great! That loose leaf crap was a joke!
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!
>>>Let's see Avengers #4 is on the flip side of Cap #400, Avengers Annual #3, and as a Marvel Milestone Edition (1995?)--My new friend Rob also noted that Captain America #1 (1941) was reprinted as a Marvel Milestone in 1995. Avengers #16 is also a Marvel milestone and was reprinted in Marvel Triple Action #10? (somewhere around there) and TOS #66 was in Bring on the Bad Guys Hardback (1970's)
They have probably been reprinted elsewhere. Just trying to help ....Batroc.

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Albert Malkin (maybe I can get this right) (811)

Posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 18:46:18 PDT

>>>Albert Malkin was the fake Red Skull of the 1950's who incidentally
fought the fake Captain America of the 1950's. This was in Young Men
#24 or something like that in the 1950's series. I can't afford
a copy. See Cap #155 for a reprint and a better explanation.
As you know A Scourge polishes him off for General Purposes in
the 1980's. Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (812)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 19:52:05 PDT
in reply to Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (783), posted by Batroc The Leaper on June 17, 1997 at 08:19:07 PDT

> This IS the definitive word on the George Maxon/Johann Schmidt controversy. Of course I'm the only guy it seems to bother.
> >>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)
> George Maxon was an alias used by Johann Schmidt. The Maxon/Skull was
> belived to have perished in an explosion in Cap #1, but he returns in Cap #7 killing off some of his old henchmen who had been hording his funds and calling them fools for believing the Red Skull was dead. Even Cap had doubts that the Skull had perished in the explosion in Cap #1. We all know the Skull has made it out of some close calls before. Sometimes, Marvel doesn't even tell us how he got out of some of his latest death scene.
> There has never been a mention of George Maxon being the first Skull and passing the mantle onto Schmidt.
> To the Contrary, Cap #298 acknowledges that the role of the Red Skull was made with Schmidt in mind.
> A mention of George Maxon does not exist in Invaders, Tales of Suspense, The Adventures of Captain America, of the immortal Cap #298 (The Life and Times of the Red Skull)
> >>Back to my original premise, George Maxon was an alias use by Johann Schmidt/Red Skull.
> The Skull is a renowned master of disguises and could have easily faked his death
> in the explosion in Cap #1. The fact that Stan Lee, Byrne, Gruenwald, Roy Thomas, and others never mention Maxon only gives more credibility to my position.
> >>In conclusion, I must ask,nay demand, that the Cap web site, and Terrorism Inc.
> change their origin of the Skull to clearly show that JOHANN SCHMIDT IS THE ONE TRUE SKULL, THE MAN THE ROLE WAS CREATED FOR!!!
> What say ye Medinnus?????Changing your origin of the Skull is the right thing
> to do, it is the way of honor, It is the way of BATROC THE LEAPER.


Talk some sense,man!! Schmidt and Maxon are two utterly different people! Seperate entities!! Maxon was a real person! Why would Schmidt use an alias? They probably haven't mentioned George's name because no one would probably remember it!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca3-09.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.169)



Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! HELP? (813)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 19:53:31 PDT
in reply to Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! HELP? (808), posted by Michael Kaiser on June 17, 1997 at 18:18:14 PDT

> > This IS the definitive word on the George Maxon/Johann Schmidt controversy. Of course I'm the only guy it seems to bother.
> > >>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)
> > George Maxon was an alias used by Johann Schmidt. The Maxon/Skull was
> > belived to have perished in an explosion in Cap #1, but he returns in Cap #7 killing off some of his old henchmen who had been hording his funds and calling them fools for believing the Red Skull was dead. Even Cap had doubts that the Skull had perished in the explosion in Cap #1. We all know the Skull has made it out of some close calls before. Sometimes, Marvel doesn't even tell us how he got out of some of his latest death scene.
> > There has never been a mention of George Maxon being the first Skull and passing the mantle onto Schmidt.
> > To the Contrary, Cap #298 acknowledges that the role of the Red Skull was made with Schmidt in mind.
> > A mention of George Maxon does not exist in Invaders, Tales of Suspense, The Adventures of Captain America, of the immortal Cap #298 (The Life and Times of the Red Skull)
> > >>Back to my original premise, George Maxon was an alias use by Johann Schmidt/Red Skull.
> > The Skull is a renowned master of disguises and could have easily faked his death
> > in the explosion in Cap #1. The fact that Stan Lee, Byrne, Gruenwald, Roy Thomas, and others never mention Maxon only gives more credibility to my position.
> > >>In conclusion, I must ask,nay demand, that the Cap web site, and Terrorism Inc.
> > change their origin of the Skull to clearly show that JOHANN SCHMIDT IS THE ONE TRUE SKULL, THE MAN THE ROLE WAS CREATED FOR!!!
> > What say ye Medinnus?????Changing your origin of the Skull is the right thing
> > to do, it is the way of honor, It is the way of BATROC THE LEAPER.

> Alright all well and good. So who is Albert Malkin then? re-Cap #347

Is that the Commie Russian Skull? Wasn't he killed by the Scourge?


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca3-09.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.169)



Re: Albert Malkin (maybe I can get this right) (814)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 19:55:50 PDT
in reply to Albert Malkin (maybe I can get this right) (811), posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 18:46:18 PDT

> >>>Albert Malkin was the fake Red Skull of the 1950's who incidentally
> fought the fake Captain America of the 1950's. This was in Young Men
> #24 or something like that in the 1950's series. I can't afford
> a copy. See Cap #155 for a reprint and a better explanation.
> As you know A Scourge polishes him off for General Purposes in
> the 1980's. Batroc

*ahem*Might I add that he was the Skull that offed Richard and Mary Parker, the parents of that Friendly Neighborhood Wall-Crawler known as Spider-Man!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca3-09.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.169)



Re: Lone Wolf...mmmmm hmmmm... (815)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 17, 1997 at 20:14:46 PDT
in reply to Re: Lone Wolf...hmmmm... (795), posted by TLesch on June 17, 1997 at 15:12:00 PDT

> > > > > > > > > Waid and Garney also said that the Falcon would return to Cap. books. Yesssssssssssssssssssss, now only if bucky would come back.
> > > > > > > > > Hal
> > > > > > > > Bucky should NOT come back. Nuff said.
> > > > > > > > Mike....
> > > > > > > It depends on which Bucky he's talking about, the baby Bucky, the Jubilee rip-off Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, or the original Buchanan Barnes? As long as it's not Buchanan everything's gonna be alright! Well....maybe Nomad too!
> > > > > > »
> > > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > > > »
> > > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > > > Whoops!! I forgot about Rick Jones!! He was a Bucky also!!
> > > > > »
> > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, etc...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > > >>>The whole concept of Bucky is ludicrous. A grown man operating under the auspices of the U.S. Government takes this minor into battle situations.
> > > > > Ane another thing, He goes by the name "Bucky" under the mask. Everyone knows there is a Bucky who has an almost un-natural relationship with a mysterious muscle bound man. But no one figures out the two Buckys are the same. It is worse than Clark Kent!!
> > > > > I know this is almost blasphemy. However, Bucky was probably good for the golden age of teen age sidekicks, but let's go on to something else in the 90's.
> > > > > Next thing I know, you will be calling for Jack Flag to come back. Sacre Bleu!!BATROC

> > > >
> > > > The situation you just described (i.e., grown man endangering minor) brings up another, even more ludicrous situation. Remember that NOMAD book in the early 90's where Nomad carried his infant daughter on his back and then doing things like taking on gun-wielding terrorists or something? Now that was ludicrous.

> > > > Falcon

> > > -I have no proof, but my belief is that they were ripping off the Lone Wolf and Cub idea, which was originally based on a movie about a masterless Samurai and his infant son being chased by assassins. You can still find the comics in back issue bins. They're actually very good.

> > ......hey....Lone Wolf was first printed in the U.s. at about the same time as this Nomad/Baby thing happened....I can't remember if this thought ever occurred to me, but it makes sense.......Hey!!!! It couldn't have been....There was no obese bad guy named Kingpi...um...I mean the Slug in Lone Wolf.......Gruenwald didn't use any original ideas, did he????

> > Ned

> -Ned, do you remember the film? I think it's now called "Shogun Assassin" or some such. I think it starred Toshiro Mifune as the "Lone Wolf" character. It was funny in parts, because the little kid would "help" Dad take out ninjas and stuff. Did you like the Lone Wolf comics? I think First put them out.

> -Inscrutable T

I saw a small clip from the film....I do remember the baby being battle savvy..*snicker*...kinda funny. First did put them out. I like the first few issues and then just lost interest. Actually, there was another comic from Aircel called "Samari" and the first few issues were good, but then it got goofy with aliens or some such stuff....oops!!! Sorry Dave...."CAPTAIN AMERICA RULES".....keeping on topic. :-)

A Babbling Ned

Host = 155.42.32.16 (155.42.32.16)



Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (816)

Posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 20:28:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (812), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 19:52:05 PDT


> > This IS the definitive word on the George Maxon/Johann Schmidt controversy. Of course I'm the only guy it seems to bother.
> > >>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)
> > George Maxon was an alias used by Johann Schmidt. The Maxon/Skull was
> > belived to have perished in an explosion in Cap #1, but he returns in Cap #7 killing off some of his old henchmen who had been hording his funds and calling them fools for believing the Red Skull was dead. Even Cap had doubts that the Skull had perished in the explosion in Cap #1. We all know the Skull has made it out of some close calls before. Sometimes, Marvel doesn't even tell us how he got out of some of his latest death scene.
> > There has never been a mention of George Maxon being the first Skull and passing the mantle onto Schmidt.
> > To the Contrary, Cap #298 acknowledges that the role of the Red Skull was made with Schmidt in mind.
> > A mention of George Maxon does not exist in Invaders, Tales of Suspense, The Adventures of Captain America, of the immortal Cap #298 (The Life and Times of the Red Skull)
> > >>Back to my original premise, George Maxon was an alias use by Johann Schmidt/Red Skull.
> > The Skull is a renowned master of disguises and could have easily faked his death
> > in the explosion in Cap #1. The fact that Stan Lee, Byrne, Gruenwald, Roy Thomas, and others never mention Maxon only gives more credibility to my position.
> > >>In conclusion, I must ask,nay demand, that the Cap web site, and Terrorism Inc.
> > change their origin of the Skull to clearly show that JOHANN SCHMIDT IS THE ONE TRUE SKULL, THE MAN THE ROLE WAS CREATED FOR!!!
> > What say ye Medinnus?????Changing your origin of the Skull is the right thing
> > to do, it is the way of honor, It is the way of BATROC THE LEAPER.

>
> Talk some sense,man!! Schmidt and Maxon are two utterly different people! Seperate entities!! Maxon was a real person! Why would Schmidt use an alias? They probably haven't mentioned George's name because no one would probably remember it!

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

After reading Cap #1 (1941) I've recanted and even agree with you
(Did I really say that??) But, YOU the Plaid SKULL of all people know that Johann deserves the mantle as the original Skull. It was he who
uttered, "wherever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...The
RED Skull was there. Those Golden Age plots are full of holes and
are sophomoric at best. I still consider Cap #298 the bible on the
Red Skull and would encourage you to do the same.
As for me I'm going on to more trivial pursuit. Ciao, Batroc the Leaper.

Host = pmc113.aeneas.net (207.65.53.142)



Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (817)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 22:46:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (816), posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 20:28:00 PDT

>
> > > This IS the definitive word on the George Maxon/Johann Schmidt controversy. Of course I'm the only guy it seems to bother.
> > > >>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)
> > > George Maxon was an alias used by Johann Schmidt. The Maxon/Skull was
> > > belived to have perished in an explosion in Cap #1, but he returns in Cap #7 killing off some of his old henchmen who had been hording his funds and calling them fools for believing the Red Skull was dead. Even Cap had doubts that the Skull had perished in the explosion in Cap #1. We all know the Skull has made it out of some close calls before. Sometimes, Marvel doesn't even tell us how he got out of some of his latest death scene.
> > > There has never been a mention of George Maxon being the first Skull and passing the mantle onto Schmidt.
> > > To the Contrary, Cap #298 acknowledges that the role of the Red Skull was made with Schmidt in mind.
> > > A mention of George Maxon does not exist in Invaders, Tales of Suspense, The Adventures of Captain America, of the immortal Cap #298 (The Life and Times of the Red Skull)
> > > >>Back to my original premise, George Maxon was an alias use by Johann Schmidt/Red Skull.
> > > The Skull is a renowned master o must remember George Maxon who started it all, for that is the way of injustice, tyranny, and ruthlessness...that is the way of the Plaid Skull!!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Host = bak-ca2-10.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.74)



Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (818)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 22:46:48 PDT
in reply to Re: Johann Schmidt, The ONE True Skull!!!! (816), posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 20:28:00 PDT

>
> > > This IS the definitive word on the George Maxon/Johann Schmidt controversy. Of course I'm the only guy it seems to bother.
> > > >>After careful study of Cap archives, (note I could not find a copy of Captain America #1, 1941)
> > > George Maxon was an alias used by Johann Schmidt. The Maxon/Skull was
> > > belived to have perished in an explosion in Cap #1, but he returns in Cap #7 killing off some of his old henchmen who had been hording his funds and calling them fools for believing the Red Skull was dead. Even Cap had doubts that the Skull had perished in the explosion in Cap #1. We all know the Skull has made it out of some close calls before. Sometimes, Marvel doesn't even tell us how he got out of some of his latest death scene.
> > > There has never been a mention of George Maxon being the first Skull and passing the mantle onto Schmidt.
> > > To the Contrary, Cap #298 acknowledges that the role of the Red Skull was made with Schmidt in mind.
> > > A mention of George Maxon does not exist in Invaders, Tales of Suspense, The Adventures of Captain America, of the immortal Cap #298 (The Life and Times of the Red Skull)
> > > >>Back to my original premise, George Maxon was an alias use by Johann Schmidt/Red Skull.
> > > The Skull is a renowned master of disguises and could have easily faked his death
> > > in the explosion in Cap #1. The fact that Stan Lee, Byrne, Gruenwald, Roy Thomas, and others never mention Maxon only gives more credibility to my position.
> > > >>In conclusion, I must ask,nay demand, that the Cap web site, and Terrorism Inc.
> > > change their origin of the Skull to clearly show that JOHANN SCHMIDT IS THE ONE TRUE SKULL, THE MAN THE ROLE WAS CREATED FOR!!!
> > > What say ye Medinnus?????Changing your origin of the Skull is the right thing
> > > to do, it is the way of honor, It is the way of BATROC THE LEAPER.

> >
> > Talk some sense,man!! Schmidt and Maxon are two utterly different people! Seperate entities!! Maxon was a real person! Why would Schmidt use an alias? They probably haven't mentioned George's name because no one would probably remember it!

> >
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> After reading Cap #1 (1941) I've recanted and even agree with you
> (Did I really say that??) But, YOU the Plaid SKULL of all people know that Johann deserves the mantle as the original Skull. It was he who
> uttered, "wherever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...The
> RED Skull was there. Those Golden Age plots are full of holes and
> are sophomoric at best. I still consider Cap #298 the bible on the
> Red Skull and would encourage you to do the same.
> As for me I'm going on to more trivial pursuit. Ciao, Batroc the Leaper.

Yet, we must pay homage to George Maxon who created a dastardly good villain! Maxon is THE original Skull! He probably thought up the name and the look! Sure Schmidt made quite a name for the Skull but we still must remember George Maxon who started it all, for that is the way of injustice, tyranny, and ruthlessness...that is the way of the Plaid Skull!!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

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Re: Secret Wars (819)

Posted by TLesch on June 18, 1997 at 05:54:27 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (801), posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 17:37:13 PDT

>
> > > > > > > > In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Falcon

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > A Secretative Ned II

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Aye verily, the etchings in the first series didst surpass the scrawlings in the second. But who really pays attention to the second series anymore? The 1st series may have been a little shoddy as far as the writing and drawings but at least it was more or less fun to read. Can't say that about the 2nd. The only good stories that came out of SW2 were the ones found in the regular titles.

> > > >
> > > > > > Falcon

> > > >
> > > > > Yeah!!!!! Do you remember when Spidey was faced with the moral dilemmna of whether to keep a solid gold notepad made by the Beyonder. He decided against it because it would upset the entire world in the effect that it would have on the gold market.....

> > > >
> > > > Er...no, which issue of which title was that?

> > > > Falcon

> > > It was in Web #6. It wasn't the notepad that was going to throw off the world economy though; one little notepad wouldn't do that. It was the fact that Spidey swiped the notepad from a huge office building that the Beyonder had transformed into pure gold. There was millions of tons of gold. Spidey wasn't sure taking the pad was right, even though it had been in a garbage can, but he decided it was time to get something for himself. Later, though, he wasn't so sure, and...I forget exactly what happened. i think someone stole the notepad from him, there ended up being a whole plot thread about it for issues and issues.

> > > -Roscoe

> > -There was a good SW2 story in Daredevil where the Beyonder offers him his sight back, and he refuses....pretty cool...

> Actually, I think he accepted at first, but later asked the Beyonder to take the gift of sight back. I'm pretty sure because I remember him looking at a stroller-bound baby and the mother shot him dirty looks.

> Falcon

> Falcon

-That sounds about right... man. I gotta alphabetize my collection, so I can find this stuff...

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Re: Classic Cap (820)

Posted by Falcon on June 18, 1997 at 06:36:30 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (805), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 17:54:30 PDT

> >
> > > > > Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.


> > > > There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.


> > > > The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.


> > >
> > > I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find! I think they should do an update though, for instance the Red Skull ain't dead anymore and neither is Mimic, Green Goblin I, Gamora, Pip, Drax, Thanos, Adam, Sharon Carter, Baron Stucker, Hobgoblin I, the Ringer, Vamp, and so forth! They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!


> > >
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull


> > >
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!


> > Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?


> > Falcon


> Yeah, I know what you're talking about!! That was the worst version ever!! It didn't give any useful information at all and it was hard to keep it together!! And before that it was Marvel Universe Update '89 which was in the same format as it always was which was great! That loose leaf crap was a joke!


> Cya
> The Plaid Skull


> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!


Yeah, that's why I steered clear of it. I thought assigning one artist to it was a dumb idea; boring, I expect, for the artist and also for the reader.

Falcon

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Re: Classic Cap (821)

Posted by and another thing... on June 18, 1997 at 07:55:06 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (810), posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 18:37:23 PDT

> > »
> > > > > > Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.
> > > > > There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.
> > > > > The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.
> > > »
> > > > I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find! I think they should do an update though, for instance the Red Skull ain't dead anymore and neither is Mimic, Green Goblin I, Gamora, Pip, Drax, Thanos, Adam, Sharon Carter, Baron Stucker, Hobgoblin I, the Ringer, Vamp, and so forth! They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!
> > > »
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > »
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!
> > > Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
> > > Falcon
> > Yeah, I know what you're talking about!! That was the worst version ever!! It didn't give any useful information at all and it was hard to keep it together!! And before that it was Marvel Universe Update '89 which was in the same format as it always was which was great! That loose leaf crap was a joke!
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!
> >>>Let's see Avengers #4 is on the flip side of Cap #400, Avengers Annual #3, and as a Marvel Milestone Edition (1995?)--My new friend Rob also noted that Captain America #1 (1941) was reprinted as a Marvel Milestone in 1995. Avengers #16 is also a Marvel milestone and was reprinted in Marvel Triple Action #10? (somewhere around there) and TOS #66 was in Bring on the Bad Guys Hardback (1970's)
> They have probably been reprinted elsewhere. Just trying to help ....Batroc.
**Most of Avengers #16 is reprinted in Avengers #150.....Ze Lepair.

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Classic Cap Game... (822)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 18, 1997 at 08:49:44 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (820), posted by Falcon on June 18, 1997 at 06:36:30 PDT

> > >
> > > > > > Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.

>
> > > > > There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.

>
> > > > > The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.

>
> > > >
> > > > I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find! I think they should do an update though, for instance the Red Skull ain't dead anymore and neither is Mimic, Green Goblin I, Gamora, Pip, Drax, Thanos, Adam, Sharon Carter, Baron Stucker, Hobgoblin I, the Ringer, Vamp, and so forth! They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!

>
> > > >
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull

>
> > > >
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!

>
> > > Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

>
> > > Falcon

>
> > Yeah, I know what you're talking about!! That was the worst version ever!! It didn't give any useful information at all and it was hard to keep it together!! And before that it was Marvel Universe Update '89 which was in the same format as it always was which was great! That loose leaf crap was a joke!

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

>
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!

>
> Yeah, that's why I steered clear of it. I thought assigning one artist to it was a dumb idea; boring, I expect, for the artist and also for the reader.

> Falcon

Hey!!!!! I won that entire loose leaf collection, along with a comic, a pack of Marvel Universe I cards, and a realy coll watch that had Spidey swinging on it and you opened it up to see the time.....I called up and answered a voice activated series of Spidey questions....I cheated by using a Wizard guide to get the exact 1st app. of the Rhino....awww memories of my dark past.
Also, the first post guy asked about the 1994 series... I am thinking about the beautiful mini series that Fabian Nixzxnuibugogi did. The Adventures of captain America was an incredibly well written and beautifully drawn retelling of Cap's origin and had a great first adventure story in it!!!! It was the last decent thing that I have seen with Fabian's name on it.....


Archivist Ned

Host = 155.42.31.199 (155.42.31.199)



Re: 1960s Cap cartoon (823)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 18, 1997 at 09:22:44 PDT
in reply to Re: 1960s Cap cartoon (792), posted by Batroc on June 17, 1997 at 12:49:09 PDT

> > Does anyone happen to have some info on this series such as who did the voices and who did the theme song? Or, if not Cap, then the other ones like Thor, Iron Man, etc.? I've never seen a listing of what actors performed the roles or what "group" did the music.
> > I once heard an actor named Keith Andes (?) talking in an old June Allyson movie and he sounded a lot like Cap in the 1960s cartoons, so I assumed that Andes played the role. But, of course, Tony Stark sounded a lot like Cary Grant in those cartoons, and he sure as heck didn't play that role. Does anyone know who performed these parts? I think that the voices of Cap and Thor were great.
> > Also, the music, which is sung by a chorus of male & female singers. Great tunes, great old-time style. I'd really like to get an album of the people who did it (please, no laughter). I have a recording of a 1960s group called The Living Voices, a chorus of male & female singers who worked for Henry Mancini, and they have a similar style to those cartoon themes. So, does anyone know who performed those songs and if they did any other recordings?
> > Rob
> You sure it wasn't Frank Sinatra. I always pictured him singing
> the Spider Man theme. "spins a web anysize, catches thieves just
> like flies, LOOK OUT there goes a Spider Man.!" This is good comedy material
> for someone who does night clubs.
> >>My fav.. " the ever lovin' Hulk.....Hulk.....Hulk... ain't he
> unglamorae" Geez, I gotta get a life. Good luck finding the
> singers. If you do find them, book 'em to do a big comic show. It
> will be a hit. BATROC

......hem..."...when I was bombarded by gamma rays,...that was a very good year.....it was a very good year to catch bad guys ...and swat tanks like flies....I loved Betty's blue eyes.....my hair is natural, no dyes ...."....Hulk as sung by Sinatra.


Ned

Host = 155.42.31.199 (155.42.31.199)



Plaid Skull's Eyes Only (O.K. you can look too!) (824)

Posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 12:01:47 PDT


>>>>>>Right before I was going to shut the proverbial book on George
Maxon, I took a quick look at Tales of Suspense #65---(1st Silver
Age Red Skull Appearance. I was putting this classic in mylar.
Anyway,.....Cap Story, Page 9,Panel 6.....The Skull speaks,
"Yankee Fool! I've deceived you as I have all the high officials...
until this day..When General Curtic began to investigate...and
discovered...that I am not the real John Maxon!"
Cap replies, "So that's it! Poor Maxon was eliminated by the Nazis
and replaced with a look-alike!"
>>>This story paralells the Red Skull Story in Cap #1 (1941). So
you see Plaidy, Stan Lee and the powers that be at Marvel wanted
there to be only one true Red Skull and that is my man and yours
Johann Schmidt. Ciao, Batroc the Leaper!!!!!!!

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



I rant and rave some more!!! (825)

Posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 12:45:29 PDT
in reply to Plaid Skull's Eyes Only (O.K. you can look too!) (824), posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 12:01:47 PDT

»
> >>>>>>Right before I was going to shut the proverbial book on George
> Maxon, I took a quick look at Tales of Suspense #65---(1st Silver
> Age Red Skull Appearance. I was putting this classic in mylar.
> Anyway,.....Cap Story, Page 9,Panel 6.....The Skull speaks,
> "Yankee Fool! I've deceived you as I have all the high officials...
> until this day..When General Curtic began to investigate...and
> discovered...that I am not the real John Maxon!"
> Cap replies, "So that's it! Poor Maxon was eliminated by the Nazis
> and replaced with a look-alike!"
> >>>This story paralells the Red Skull Story in Cap #1 (1941). So
> you see Plaidy, Stan Lee and the powers that be at Marvel wanted
> there to be only one true Red Skull and that is my man and yours
> Johann Schmidt. Ciao, Batroc the Leaper!!!!!!!
>>>So you see, The Maxon look-alike. His true identity never revealed was a Skull imposter. In TOS #66, Cap and the Skull discuss this fact. It is like the acrobat impersonating Cap in Strang Tales #114.
The Maxon double was not the Red Skull commisioned and created by Hitler. Re-read TOS #65-66 and contrast it with Cap #298 and you will believe that JOHANN SCHIMDT IS THE ONE TRUE RED SKULL.
Plaid Skull, I also want to recommend Super-Villian Team-up #17 for your perusal. I think you will enjoy seeing Johann relaxing around the house.
...................The way of Honor, Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Classic Cap (826)

Posted by David Medinnus on June 18, 1997 at 13:45:06 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (803), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 17, 1997 at 17:43:02 PDT


> I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find!


They are in my area...'your mileage may vary'.

> They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!

I agree 100%, except that it should be maintained and updated online.

Talk about a cool job!

-DM

Host = 204.254.27.87 (204.254.27.87)



Re: Classic Cap (827)

Posted by David Medinnus on June 18, 1997 at 13:48:28 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (804), posted by Falcon on June 17, 1997 at 17:47:41 PDT


> Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

Wasn't that for the Marvel Role-Playing game? I seem to recall that was were we sold it (I used to own a comic shop).

-DM

Host = 204.254.27.87 (204.254.27.87)



Re: Aaaaaargh! (Re: Hey,I'm #4400!!!) (828)

Posted by David Medinnus on June 18, 1997 at 13:54:12 PDT
in reply to Re: Aaaaaargh! (Re: Hey,I'm #4400!!!) (770), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 16, 1997 at 20:45:48 PDT


> Hey, why don't you go over to the Marvel U board it's about to be #8200!!! After you report your number you will feel the raw, untamed, Power!! It's quite exhilarating!

Just say "No", m'man. :)

-DM

Host = 204.254.27.87 (204.254.27.87)



Re: Classic Cap (829)

Posted by Falcon on June 18, 1997 at 13:56:52 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (827), posted by David Medinnus on June 18, 1997 at 13:48:28 PDT

>
> > Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?


> Wasn't that for the Marvel Role-Playing game? I seem to recall that was were we sold it (I used to own a comic shop).


> -DM


No, it to make the OHOTMU easier to understand. The Marvel Role-Playing game was lame IMO. By the way OHOTMU online: great idea!

Falcon

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Re: Classic Cap (830)

Posted by Falcon on June 18, 1997 at 13:58:18 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap (827), posted by David Medinnus on June 18, 1997 at 13:48:28 PDT

>
> > Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?


> Wasn't that for the Marvel Role-Playing game? I seem to recall that was were we sold it (I used to own a comic shop).


> -DM


Made a booboo; left a couple'a words out. No, it was an attempt to make the OHOTMU easier to understand. The Marvel Role-Playing game was lame IMO. By the way OHOTMU online: great idea!

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)



Re: I rant and rave some more!!! (831)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 18, 1997 at 14:50:30 PDT
in reply to I rant and rave some more!!! (825), posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 12:45:29 PDT

> »
> > >>>>>>Right before I was going to shut the proverbial book on George
> > Maxon, I took a quick look at Tales of Suspense #65---(1st Silver
> > Age Red Skull Appearance. I was putting this classic in mylar.
> > Anyway,.....Cap Story, Page 9,Panel 6.....The Skull speaks,
> > "Yankee Fool! I've deceived you as I have all the high officials...
> > until this day..When General Curtic began to investigate...and
> > discovered...that I am not the real John Maxon!"
> > Cap replies, "So that's it! Poor Maxon was eliminated by the Nazis
> > and replaced with a look-alike!"
> > >>>This story paralells the Red Skull Story in Cap #1 (1941). So
> > you see Plaidy, Stan Lee and the powers that be at Marvel wanted
> > there to be only one true Red Skull and that is my man and yours
> > Johann Schmidt. Ciao, Batroc the Leaper!!!!!!!
> >>>So you see, The Maxon look-alike. His true identity never revealed was a Skull imposter. In TOS #66, Cap and the Skull discuss this fact. It is like the acrobat impersonating Cap in Strang Tales #114.
> The Maxon double was not the Red Skull commisioned and created by Hitler. Re-read TOS #65-66 and contrast it with Cap #298 and you will believe that JOHANN SCHIMDT IS THE ONE TRUE RED SKULL.
> Plaid Skull, I also want to recommend Super-Villian Team-up #17 for your perusal. I think you will enjoy seeing Johann relaxing around the house.
> ...................The way of Honor, Batroc

Agghhh!! A retconn!! Nooooooooo!!!!! Maxon was retconned out of the picture! Gaaaaaahhhhhh!! So Maxon was some dead guy and it was really the Red Skull claiming to be Maxon, right?


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

Host = bak-ca1-23.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.55)



Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (832)

Posted by Rob on June 18, 1997 at 15:39:17 PDT

CBI Newsarama reports the following about upcoming Cap issues:

"- Captain America will find himself in Japan early on in the new run, in an adventure involving a group of rebels opposed to the westernization of their county and culture. Cap obviously won't be a welcome sight.

"- Mark Waid also wants to do a Captain America flashback story featuring Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch, in the untold tale of ATLANTIS' time as a WWII Axis power."

Also, the page reports that Jim Steranko (who has been mistakenly pronounced dead on this Cap message board at least twice!)
will be doing "a variant cover of KABUKI #1" for Image.

The page also says that Avengers will be starting over with #1...So, has it been confirmed that Cap's numbering will start over from #1 again? Any opinions on that matter? (Personally, I think I'd like to see it go back to the old numbering for the sake of tradition. But if the new Cap is going to be unlike the old series, maybe it should start over.)

Rob

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Re: I rant and rave some more!!! (833)

Posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 20:32:35 PDT
in reply to Re: I rant and rave some more!!! (831), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 18, 1997 at 14:50:30 PDT

> > »
> > > >>>>>>Right before I was going to shut the proverbial book on George
> > > Maxon, I took a quick look at Tales of Suspense #65---(1st Silver
> > > Age Red Skull Appearance. I was putting this classic in mylar.
> > > Anyway,.....Cap Story, Page 9,Panel 6.....The Skull speaks,
> > > "Yankee Fool! I've deceived you as I have all the high officials...
> > > until this day..When General Curtic began to investigate...and
> > > discovered...that I am not the real John Maxon!"
> > > Cap replies, "So that's it! Poor Maxon was eliminated by the Nazis
> > > and replaced with a look-alike!"
> > > >>>This story paralells the Red Skull Story in Cap #1 (1941). So
> > > you see Plaidy, Stan Lee and the powers that be at Marvel wanted
> > > there to be only one true Red Skull and that is my man and yours
> > > Johann Schmidt. Ciao, Batroc the Leaper!!!!!!!
> > >>>So you see, The Maxon look-alike. His true identity never revealed was a Skull imposter. In TOS #66, Cap and the Skull discuss this fact. It is like the acrobat impersonating Cap in Strang Tales #114.
> > The Maxon double was not the Red Skull commisioned and created by Hitler. Re-read TOS #65-66 and contrast it with Cap #298 and you will believe that JOHANN SCHIMDT IS THE ONE TRUE RED SKULL.
> > Plaid Skull, I also want to recommend Super-Villian Team-up #17 for your perusal. I think you will enjoy seeing Johann relaxing around the house.
> > ...................The way of Honor, Batroc
> Agghhh!! A retconn!! Nooooooooo!!!!! Maxon was retconned out of the picture! Gaaaaaahhhhhh!! So Maxon was some dead guy and it was really the Red Skull claiming to be Maxon, right?
»
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»Plaidy, your by-line is from TOS #66 except their is more to the quote. I just knew you had a copy of #66. In TOS #65, The Maxon Nazi double escapes through a window from Cap and the Juvenile delinquent Bucky. However, In TOS #66, Cap has been captured by the true Red Skull who confesses that the Maxon double was an imposter. Cap said he knew he had to be because the true legendary Red Skull that he had heard of would have been a much better fighter. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby wanted Johann to be the one TRUE Red Skull. You notice Medinnus has sat on the sidelines on the one. Is he on vacation??
Hey, did you read that Super Villian Team-up #17. I just love the scenes of Johann going through a daily routine. Ze Lepair....

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (834)

Posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 20:38:43 PDT
in reply to Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (832), posted by Rob on June 18, 1997 at 15:39:17 PDT

> CBI Newsarama reports the following about upcoming Cap issues:
> "- Captain America will find himself in Japan early on in the new run, in an adventure involving a group of rebels opposed to the westernization of their county and culture. Cap obviously won't be a welcome sight.
> "- Mark Waid also wants to do a Captain America flashback story featuring Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch, in the untold tale of ATLANTIS' time as a WWII Axis power."

> Also, the page reports that Jim Steranko (who has been mistakenly pronounced dead on this Cap message board at least twice!)
> will be doing "a variant cover of KABUKI #1" for Image.
> The page also says that Avengers will be starting over with #1...So, has it been confirmed that Cap's numbering will start over from #1 again? Any opinions on that matter? (Personally, I think I'd like to see it go back to the old numbering for the sake of tradition. But if the new Cap is going to be unlike the old series, maybe it should start over.)
> Rob
>>>Some high roller at the Nashville Fantasy Con (spending money like
it was going out of style) said he was going to a convention somewhere(Charlotte?) and Steranko was going to sign.
I also read the news on Kabuki #1. What the %$#@ is a Kabuki??
I'm thinking of purchasing some more Steranko Strange Tales. Cap was
in several issues and I liked Steranko psychdelic work. for that is the way of Honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper!!!!

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Dear David Medinnus..... (835)

Posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 20:54:42 PDT

>>>>Why won't you respond to me? You are supposed to be the moderator. A few weeks ago you congratulated me on my triv research, now I am a pariah. WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS!!!!!!
Now, you know I've made some darn good points with references on the
Maxon/Skull. Will you be person enough to change your origin of the Red Skull posted on the Star Spangled Web Site??
If you don't respond to me I'll start saying people suck and I'll also start posting "I'm omnipotent I'm 5900! Do I get a prize???"
Now, that always gets a response from you.
I'll ask again, what say ye all-knowing and all-wise Medinnus of my esoteric research???
Ze Lepair

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (836)

Posted by Roscoe on June 18, 1997 at 21:50:19 PDT
in reply to Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (832), posted by Rob on June 18, 1997 at 15:39:17 PDT

> CBI Newsarama reports the following about upcoming Cap issues:

> "- Captain America will find himself in Japan early on in the new run, in an adventure involving a group of rebels opposed to the westernization of their county and culture. Cap obviously won't be a welcome sight.

> "- Mark Waid also wants to do a Captain America flashback story featuring Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch, in the untold tale of ATLANTIS' time as a WWII Axis power."

> Also, the page reports that Jim Steranko (who has been mistakenly pronounced dead on this Cap message board at least twice!)
> will be doing "a variant cover of KABUKI #1" for Image.

> The page also says that Avengers will be starting over with #1...So, has it been confirmed that Cap's numbering will start over from #1 again? Any opinions on that matter? (Personally, I think I'd like to see it go back to the old numbering for the sake of tradition. But if the new Cap is going to be unlike the old series, maybe it should start over.)

> Rob

If it's going to be unlike the old series, then I don't care what they number it at, because I won't buy it.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma3-38.ix.netcom.com (206.217.145.102)



Re: Dear David Medinnus..... (837)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 18, 1997 at 22:23:34 PDT
in reply to Dear David Medinnus..... (835), posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 20:54:42 PDT

> >>>>Why won't you respond to me? You are supposed to be the moderator. A few weeks ago you congratulated me on my triv research, now I am a pariah. WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS!!!!!!
> Now, you know I've made some darn good points with references on the
> Maxon/Skull. Will you be person enough to change your origin of the Red Skull posted on the Star Spangled Web Site??
> If you don't respond to me I'll start saying people suck and I'll also start posting "I'm omnipotent I'm 5900! Do I get a prize???"
> Now, that always gets a response from you.
> I'll ask again, what say ye all-knowing and all-wise Medinnus of my esoteric research???
> Ze Lepair

Hey, I was #4901!! Do I get a prize for being so close or something? No, I didn't get Super-Villain Team up yet the only SVTU issues that I have is when Doom destroys part of Atlantis to get Namor to join him in destroying the FF, the debut of the mysterious Shroud, and when Doom teams up with this Prentis woman to take on Dr.Dorcas!! Yes, I do have TOS#66 but I haven't read it in four years! A presidential term! Wow!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Wherever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...Johan Schmidt was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-17.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.81)



To answer your questions, BubbaBubba2, ect. (838)

Posted by jamie on June 18, 1997 at 23:20:50 PDT

Since when did I say that Waid sucked ? All I remember saying
was that Liefeld is better than Waid, not that he sucked . I guess
you got under the impression that I disliked Mark, huh ? Well, I
remember posting a message on this board " Liefeld / Waid : What
I really think ... ", and in it I stated that Waid is my second choice
for writing chores, don't you recall ? I also said that I didn't - and don't -
particularly like his artwork . I said his artwork was " okay " . I remember
saying he sucked, but that day I was kind of hostile . I apologize if
it offended you by saying any of these things . As for Liefeld's art and
proportions, I recall you asking me " how can you call his art detailed
when there're no backrounds in his stuff ? " . What I meant was
that the people he drew were detailed . My final answer is that no
matter how much you critisize his art, I'll always like it . When a guy
or gal likes something like a certain writers or artists work, people
insulting is not going to change his opinion .

P. S. This isn't to only you BubbaBubba2 . It's to all you questioning
Cap guys who've been waiting for my answers .

P.S.S. I must say, Ron's art is improving .

jamie

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)



C'mon Roscoe (839)

Posted by Batroc on June 19, 1997 at 05:48:01 PDT
in reply to Re: Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (836), posted by Roscoe on June 18, 1997 at 21:50:19 PDT

> > CBI Newsarama reports the following about upcoming Cap issues:
> > "- Captain America will find himself in Japan early on in the new run, in an adventure involving a group of rebels opposed to the westernization of their county and culture. Cap obviously won't be a welcome sight.
> > "- Mark Waid also wants to do a Captain America flashback story featuring Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch, in the untold tale of ATLANTIS' time as a WWII Axis power."

> > Also, the page reports that Jim Steranko (who has been mistakenly pronounced dead on this Cap message board at least twice!)
> > will be doing "a variant cover of KABUKI #1" for Image.
> > The page also says that Avengers will be starting over with #1...So, has it been confirmed that Cap's numbering will start over from #1 again? Any opinions on that matter? (Personally, I think I'd like to see it go back to the old numbering for the sake of tradition. But if the new Cap is going to be unlike the old series, maybe it should start over.)
> > Rob
> If it's going to be unlike the old series, then I don't care what they number it at, because I won't buy it.
> -Roscoe
>>>>They should go back to the old numbering, but I guess they probably
won't. How can it be so unlike the old series, when the old writer and artist are taking back over?
Read the first issue or two and give it a chance. Maybe it won't be as bad as you think. Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (840)

Posted by TLesch on June 19, 1997 at 05:58:32 PDT
in reply to Re: Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (834), posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 20:38:43 PDT

> > CBI Newsarama reports the following about upcoming Cap issues:
> > "- Captain America will find himself in Japan early on in the new run, in an adventure involving a group of rebels opposed to the westernization of their county and culture. Cap obviously won't be a welcome sight.
> > "- Mark Waid also wants to do a Captain America flashback story featuring Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch, in the untold tale of ATLANTIS' time as a WWII Axis power."

> > Also, the page reports that Jim Steranko (who has been mistakenly pronounced dead on this Cap message board at least twice!)
> > will be doing "a variant cover of KABUKI #1" for Image.
> > The page also says that Avengers will be starting over with #1...So, has it been confirmed that Cap's numbering will start over from #1 again? Any opinions on that matter? (Personally, I think I'd like to see it go back to the old numbering for the sake of tradition. But if the new Cap is going to be unlike the old series, maybe it should start over.)
> > Rob
> >>>Some high roller at the Nashville Fantasy Con (spending money like
> it was going out of style) said he was going to a convention somewhere(Charlotte?) and Steranko was going to sign.
> I also read the news on Kabuki #1. What the %$#@ is a Kabuki??
> I'm thinking of purchasing some more Steranko Strange Tales. Cap was
> in several issues and I liked Steranko psychdelic work. for that is the way of Honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper!!!!

Jim Steranko can be found at the Dominion, the Sci-Fi Channel's Website. He has a magazine called Prevue.

Host = pm10-12.magicnet.net (206.104.204.45)



Re: C'mon Roscoe (841)

Posted by Roscoe on June 19, 1997 at 09:09:24 PDT
in reply to C'mon Roscoe (839), posted by Batroc on June 19, 1997 at 05:48:01 PDT

> > > CBI Newsarama reports the following about upcoming Cap issues:
> > > "- Captain America will find himself in Japan early on in the new run, in an adventure involving a group of rebels opposed to the westernization of their county and culture. Cap obviously won't be a welcome sight.
> > > "- Mark Waid also wants to do a Captain America flashback story featuring Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch, in the untold tale of ATLANTIS' time as a WWII Axis power."

> > > Also, the page reports that Jim Steranko (who has been mistakenly pronounced dead on this Cap message board at least twice!)
> > > will be doing "a variant cover of KABUKI #1" for Image.
> > > The page also says that Avengers will be starting over with #1...So, has it been confirmed that Cap's numbering will start over from #1 again? Any opinions on that matter? (Personally, I think I'd like to see it go back to the old numbering for the sake of tradition. But if the new Cap is going to be unlike the old series, maybe it should start over.)
> > > Rob
> > If it's going to be unlike the old series, then I don't care what they number it at, because I won't buy it.
> > -Roscoe
> >>>>They should go back to the old numbering, but I guess they probably
> won't. How can it be so unlike the old series, when the old writer and artist are taking back over?
> Read the first issue or two and give it a chance. Maybe it won't be as bad as you think. Batroc

Don't misunderstand me, I am looking forward to the new series. I'm just saying that I hope it is as good as the last one was. I see no reason to renumber besides getting about 50 extra sales for the first issue. To me that isn't good enough reason to chuck 30 years of history.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma1-10.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.42)



Re: C'mon Roscoe (842)

Posted by Falcon on June 19, 1997 at 09:49:52 PDT
in reply to Re: C'mon Roscoe (841), posted by Roscoe on June 19, 1997 at 09:09:24 PDT

> > > > CBI Newsarama reports the following about upcoming Cap issues:
> > > > "- Captain America will find himself in Japan early on in the new run, in an adventure involving a group of rebels opposed to the westernization of their county and culture. Cap obviously won't be a welcome sight.
> > > > "- Mark Waid also wants to do a Captain America flashback story featuring Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch, in the untold tale of ATLANTIS' time as a WWII Axis power."

> > > > Also, the page reports that Jim Steranko (who has been mistakenly pronounced dead on this Cap message board at least twice!)
> > > > will be doing "a variant cover of KABUKI #1" for Image.
> > > > The page also says that Avengers will be starting over with #1...So, has it been confirmed that Cap's numbering will start over from #1 again? Any opinions on that matter? (Personally, I think I'd like to see it go back to the old numbering for the sake of tradition. But if the new Cap is going to be unlike the old series, maybe it should start over.)
> > > > Rob
> > > If it's going to be unlike the old series, then I don't care what they number it at, because I won't buy it.
> > > -Roscoe
> > >>>>They should go back to the old numbering, but I guess they probably
> > won't. How can it be so unlike the old series, when the old writer and artist are taking back over?
> > Read the first issue or two and give it a chance. Maybe it won't be as bad as you think. Batroc


> Don't misunderstand me, I am looking forward to the new series. I'm just saying that I hope it is as good as the last one was. I see no reason to renumber besides getting about 50 extra sales for the first issue. To me that isn't good enough reason to chuck 30 years of history.


> -Roscoe


Unless they can get Jack Kirby himself to draw Cap when he returns, I say go back to the old numbering.

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)



Forgive me for I have sinned (843)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on June 19, 1997 at 11:46:57 PDT

Okay it's like this I was re-reading early Captain America and it bugged me that Cap called everyone son. Cap said the reason for this is that he tends to patronize everyone who's younger in the superhero biz and since that's everyone (damn suspended animation). The reason this bugs me is that so he's older but he shouldn't feel older. He was in suspended animation therefore he hasn't have although chronilogically he is older, physically and mentally he's the same age as he was, so why does he feel that he has to call people "son".

Oh, the reason I've sinned is because Rob Liefield has/had the same idea. I've already said a thousand hail Jack Kirbys but I still feel wrong. Any advice?

Tobin

Host = host516.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.4)



Absolution (Re: Forgive me for I have sinned) (844)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 19, 1997 at 12:11:48 PDT
in reply to Forgive me for I have sinned (843), posted by Tobin Kennedy on June 19, 1997 at 11:46:57 PDT

> Oh, the reason I've sinned is because Rob Liefield has/had the same idea. I've already said a thousand hail Jack Kirbys but I still feel wrong. Any advice?

Gentle Son,

Let us take comfort in the Book Of Wisdom and Known Phenominae, Chapter 7, Verse 22:

'And thus spake the Spirit Of Empirical Observation, and it was revealed unto the Masses that Liefield has Not Had An Original Idea To Date. And thus it was Regarded as Not A Sin to agree with Liefield, since he steals from Everyman'

In short, you are agreeing with the originator of the idea, not Liefield (probably Roy Thomas, Stan Lee, or Steve Englehart).


Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Re: To answer your questions, BubbaBubba2, ect. (845)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 19, 1997 at 12:17:37 PDT
in reply to To answer your questions, BubbaBubba2, ect. (838), posted by jamie on June 18, 1997 at 23:20:50 PDT

> Since when did I say that Waid sucked ? All I remember saying
> was that Liefeld is better than Waid, not that he sucked . I guess
> you got under the impression that I disliked Mark, huh ? Well, I
> remember posting a message on this board " Liefeld / Waid : What
> I really think ... ", and in it I stated that Waid is my second choice
> for writing chores, don't you recall ? I also said that I didn't - and don't -
> particularly like his artwork . I said his artwork was " okay " . I remember
> saying he sucked, but that day I was kind of hostile . I apologize if
> it offended you by saying any of these things . As for Liefeld's art and
> proportions, I recall you asking me " how can you call his art detailed
> when there're no backrounds in his stuff ? " . What I meant was
> that the people he drew were detailed . My final answer is that no
> matter how much you critisize his art, I'll always like it . When a guy
> or gal likes something like a certain writers or artists work, people
> insulting is not going to change his opinion .

> P. S. This isn't to only you BubbaBubba2 . It's to all you questioning
> Cap guys who've been waiting for my answers .

> P.S.S. I must say, Ron's art is improving .

> jamie

Actually this is what you said:"ROB kicks major CAP butt ! He's waaaaaaay cooler a writer than Waid on stories, and DOUBLE cooler than Garney on art . (garney sucks) ROB RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!!! period."


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Wherever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-04.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.36)



Re: Dear David Medinnus..... (846)

Posted by David Aaaargh! Medinnus on June 19, 1997 at 12:21:42 PDT
in reply to Dear David Medinnus..... (835), posted by Batroc on June 18, 1997 at 20:54:42 PDT

> Why won't you respond to me?

Uhhh...email works better for my sometimes-restricted bandwidth. :)

> You are supposed to be the moderator. A few weeks ago you congratulated me on my triv research, now I am a pariah. WHAT DID I DO TO DESERVE THIS!!!!!!

Over-reacting a bit? :)

> Now, you know I've made some darn good points with references on the
> Maxon/Skull. Will you be person enough to change your origin of the Red Skull posted on the Star Spangled Web Site??

Actually, the Red Skull stuff is maintained by Jeanne Burch on her Villians of Marvel Comics site (http://www.sigma.net/burch/); she'd need to change it.

However, your research on the Maxon/Skull subject has indeed been masterful.

> If you don't respond to me I'll start saying people suck...

Uh Uh! Language!

> ...and I'll also start posting "I'm omnipotent I'm 5900! Do I get a prize???"

AAAAAAARGH! My secret weakness! I'm meeeeltiiiing!

Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Re: Absolution (Re: Forgive me for I have sinned) (847)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on June 19, 1997 at 20:27:00 PDT
in reply to Absolution (Re: Forgive me for I have sinned) (844), posted by Dave Medinnus on June 19, 1997 at 12:11:48 PDT


> > Oh, the reason I've sinned is because Rob Liefield has/had the same idea. I've already said a thousand hail Jack Kirbys but I still feel wrong. Any advice?

> Gentle Son,

> Let us take comfort in the Book Of Wisdom and Known Phenominae, Chapter 7, Verse 22:

> 'And thus spake the Spirit Of Empirical Observation, and it was revealed unto the Masses that Liefield has Not Had An Original Idea To Date. And thus it was Regarded as Not A Sin to agree with Liefield, since he steals from Everyman'

> In short, you are agreeing with the originator of the idea, not Liefield (probably Roy Thomas, Stan Lee, or Steve Englehart).

Whoa do I feel better. It as if a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

Tobin

Host = host517.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.5)



Numbering Answer (848)

Posted by Hal/Wally in 2000 on June 19, 1997 at 21:55:48 PDT
in reply to Future of Cap; numbering question; Jim Steranko (832), posted by Rob on June 18, 1997 at 15:39:17 PDT

> CBI Newsarama reports the following about upcoming Cap issues:

> "- Captain America will find himself in Japan early on in the new run, in an adventure involving a group of rebels opposed to the westernization of their county and culture. Cap obviously won't be a welcome sight.

> "- Mark Waid also wants to do a Captain America flashback story featuring Cap, Namor, and the original Human Torch, in the untold tale of ATLANTIS' time as a WWII Axis power."

> Also, the page reports that Jim Steranko (who has been mistakenly pronounced dead on this Cap message board at least twice!)
> will be doing "a variant cover of KABUKI #1" for Image.

> The page also says that Avengers will be starting over with #1...So, has it been confirmed that Cap's numbering will start over from #1 again? Any opinions on that matter? (Personally, I think I'd like to see it go back to the old numbering for the sake of tradition. But if the new Cap is going to be unlike the old series, maybe it should start over.)

> Rob

From what Waid, Garney, Busiek, David, and Perez said the numbering has not been finalized and will not be for a couple of weeks. The creative teams all want to start from the numbers that the issues stoped at before Heroes Reborn, while some of the Marvel people want to start at #1. I for one hope they continue with the old numbering system for the sake of tradition.

Hal/Wally in 2000

Host = pm-jax2-84.coastalnet.com (205.245.112.84)



The...The power! I can feel it! (849)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 20, 1997 at 00:12:15 PDT

Hey, I'm #5000!!! Now I know I've asked for a prize before but this is a really, really, really, good number and is 100% prize worthy! So, howzabout it? Do I get a prize or something?


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Wherever there is injustice, tryanny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-11.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.43)



Re: The...The power! I can feel it! (850)

Posted by Batroc on June 20, 1997 at 05:45:33 PDT
in reply to The...The power! I can feel it! (849), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 20, 1997 at 00:12:15 PDT

> Hey, I'm #5000!!! Now I know I've asked for a prize before but this is a really, really, really, good number and is 100% prize worthy! So, howzabout it? Do I get a prize or something?
»
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»
> Wherever there is injustice, tryanny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>>For now and forever (and a day) you are incontinent, I mean
omnipotent.
If a prize is not sent to you immediately, these people have no
shame.
SO LET IT BE WRITTEN, SO LET IT BE DONE!!!!!! Ze Lepair

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Question: (851)

Posted by Falcon on June 20, 1997 at 07:59:46 PDT

How many issue is Heroes Return supposed to be?

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)



Re: Question: (852)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 20, 1997 at 09:49:49 PDT
in reply to Question: (851), posted by Falcon on June 20, 1997 at 07:59:46 PDT

> How many issue is Heroes Return supposed to be?

Twelve, but my impression (from something I read online) is that there will be a 13th issue, all of them written by Robinson.

Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Re: The...The power! I can feel it! (853)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on June 20, 1997 at 09:52:24 PDT
in reply to The...The power! I can feel it! (849), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 20, 1997 at 00:12:15 PDT

> Hey, I'm #5000!!! Now I know I've asked for a prize before but this is a really, really, really, good number and is 100% prize worthy! So, howzabout it? Do I get a prize or something?

...even I can't complain much about a 5K number.

Now 10K...THAT would be impressive.

In fact, there is now a prize for the 10K message...I'll figure out precisely what later... :)

This is of course assuming that its done honestly... :)

-DM

Host = 205.180.68.53 (205.180.68.53)



Re: Question: (854)

Posted by Batroc on June 20, 1997 at 16:09:04 PDT
in reply to Re: Question: (852), posted by Dave Medinnus on June 20, 1997 at 09:49:49 PDT

> > How many issue is Heroes Return supposed to be?
»
> Twelve, but my impression (from something I read online) is that there will be a 13th issue, all of them written by Robinson.
THERE WILL BE A 13TH!!!! I read that somewhere, Wizard or the now
defunct FAN. They needed the extra issue to bring everything back
to Heroes Return or whatever they are calling the re-relaunch.
Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: To answer your questions, BubbaBubba2, ect. (855)

Posted by Batroc on June 20, 1997 at 16:14:05 PDT
in reply to Re: To answer your questions, BubbaBubba2, ect. (845), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 19, 1997 at 12:17:37 PDT

> > Since when did I say that Waid sucked ? All I remember saying
> > was that Liefeld is better than Waid, not that he sucked . I guess
> > you got under the impression that I disliked Mark, huh ? Well, I
> > remember posting a message on this board " Liefeld / Waid : What
> > I really think ... ", and in it I stated that Waid is my second choice
> > for writing chores, don't you recall ? I also said that I didn't - and don't -
> > particularly like his artwork . I said his artwork was " okay " . I remember
> > saying he sucked, but that day I was kind of hostile . I apologize if
> > it offended you by saying any of these things . As for Liefeld's art and
> > proportions, I recall you asking me " how can you call his art detailed
> > when there're no backrounds in his stuff ? " . What I meant was
> > that the people he drew were detailed . My final answer is that no
> > matter how much you critisize his art, I'll always like it . When a guy
> > or gal likes something like a certain writers or artists work, people
> > insulting is not going to change his opinion .
> > P. S. This isn't to only you BubbaBubba2 . It's to all you questioning
> > Cap guys who've been waiting for my answers .
> > P.S.S. I must say, Ron's art is improving .
> > jamie
> Actually this is what you said:"ROB kicks major CAP butt ! He's waaaaaaay cooler a writer than Waid on stories, and DOUBLE cooler than Garney on art . (garney sucks) ROB RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!!! period."
»
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»How did you remember that? It's no longer on the Board, but it seems like just yesterday. I bet you saved on your E-mail for your personal archives. You are DOUBLE COOLER than Citizen Plaid. <<<< Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: To answer your questions, BubbaBubba2, ect. (856)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 20, 1997 at 16:41:42 PDT
in reply to Re: To answer your questions, BubbaBubba2, ect. (855), posted by Batroc on June 20, 1997 at 16:14:05 PDT

> > > Since when did I say that Waid sucked ? All I remember saying
> > > was that Liefeld is better than Waid, not that he sucked . I guess
> > > you got under the impression that I disliked Mark, huh ? Well, I
> > > remember posting a message on this board " Liefeld / Waid : What
> > > I really think ... ", and in it I stated that Waid is my second choice
> > > for writing chores, don't you recall ? I also said that I didn't - and don't -
> > > particularly like his artwork . I said his artwork was " okay " . I remember
> > > saying he sucked, but that day I was kind of hostile . I apologize if
> > > it offended you by saying any of these things . As for Liefeld's art and
> > > proportions, I recall you asking me " how can you call his art detailed
> > > when there're no backrounds in his stuff ? " . What I meant was
> > > that the people he drew were detailed . My final answer is that no
> > > matter how much you critisize his art, I'll always like it . When a guy
> > > or gal likes something like a certain writers or artists work, people
> > > insulting is not going to change his opinion .
> > > P. S. This isn't to only you BubbaBubba2 . It's to all you questioning
> > > Cap guys who've been waiting for my answers .
> > > P.S.S. I must say, Ron's art is improving .
> > > jamie
> > Actually this is what you said:"ROB kicks major CAP butt ! He's waaaaaaay cooler a writer than Waid on stories, and DOUBLE cooler than Garney on art . (garney sucks) ROB RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!!! period."
> »
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »How did you remember that? It's no longer on the Board, but it seems like just yesterday. I bet you saved on your E-mail for your personal archives. You are DOUBLE COOLER than Citizen Plaid. <<<<Actually you can find all the mssages that are no longer on the board in the Archives! That's how I found it! Citizen Plaid's a wuss!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Wherever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-16.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.80)



Dear David Medinnus--Part II (857)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on June 20, 1997 at 20:33:31 PDT

>>I sent Ms. JeAnne Burch a long message on her E-mail concerning
the alleged Maxon/Skull. I also discussed some of my mental wounds
that are not healing properly. She may contact you and say, "What
do you know about this self-styled Leaper"?
You are patrioticly bound to say that I am a man of honor. It's
coming to a head on this Maxon/Skull controversy. Too bad I'm the
only person it bothers.
Heres hoping that Ms. Burch sides with Ze Lepair on this one and
changes the Skull bio to show Johann Schmidt as the ONE true Red
Skull. Excelsior!!!! Batroc the Leaper...

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: The...The power! I can feel it! (858)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 20, 1997 at 23:40:06 PDT
in reply to Re: The...The power! I can feel it! (853), posted by Dave Medinnus on June 20, 1997 at 09:52:24 PDT

> > Hey, I'm #5000!!! Now I know I've asked for a prize before but this is a really, really, really, good number and is 100% prize worthy! So, howzabout it? Do I get a prize or something?

> ...even I can't complain much about a 5K number.

> Now 10K...THAT would be impressive.

> In fact, there is now a prize for the 10K message...I'll figure out precisely what later... :)

> This is of course assuming that its done honestly... :)

> -DM

I accept!! Wow, this is the first time someone has ever offered a prize! After all the begging and asking I've never gotten a prize for getting a certain number!! And when I win I will report it through out the message boards and everyone will know that I am Omnipotent! I hope it's a Cosmic Cube or the Infinity Gauntlet!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Wherever there is injustice, tryanny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Re: The...The power! I can feel it! (859)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 20, 1997 at 23:52:05 PDT
in reply to Re: The...The power! I can feel it! (850), posted by Batroc on June 20, 1997 at 05:45:33 PDT

> > Hey, I'm #5000!!! Now I know I've asked for a prize before but this is a really, really, really, good number and is 100% prize worthy! So, howzabout it? Do I get a prize or something?
> »
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »
> > Wherever there is injustice, tryanny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> >>>For now and forever (and a day) you are incontinent, I mean
> omnipotent.
> If a prize is not sent to you immediately, these people have no
> shame.
> SO LET IT BE WRITTEN, SO LET IT BE DONE!!!!!! Ze Lepair


If a prize is not given to me, man of honor than I shall resort into doing something....uh....uhm...really weird! Woe to the people who mock my quest for prizeness for he shall be laughed at once I get it! Woe to the people who are annoyed of these number posts for they shall never cease! Woe to the people who ignore these number posts for they shall never know the weird stuff I have written in them! Woe to Alvaro, God of the almighty Message boards for he shall miss my acension into prizedom! Woe to my Jr High Math teacher for he gave me a "C" when I truley deserved a "B"! Woe to the people who buy the Lottery tickets for only one in a million shall win! Woe to Rob Liefield for his Agent America comic shall be a horrible flop plus he shall be sued by the all powerful Marvel! Woe to the goat herder for the milk is rotten! Woe to the Heroes Reborn Captain America for he is no longer a red-blooded American but is now a green-blooded one! Woe to the reader of this post for he shall hear me ramble on and on! Woe to George Maxon for he is no longer the first Skull! Woe for the Leaper who aimlessly chased this Maxon/Schmidt mystery, the people shall now think he's insane! Whoa, this speach is lasting longer than I planned it to!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Wherever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-14.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.78)



Re: 1960s Cap cartoon (860)

Posted by Rocy Leech on June 21, 1997 at 01:12:47 PDT
in reply to 1960s Cap cartoon (789), posted by Rob on June 17, 1997 at 12:29:33 PDT

I'd like to know where I could get a copy of the cartoons

> Does anyone happen to have some info on this series such as who did the voices and who did the theme song? Or, if not Cap, then the other ones like Thor, Iron Man, etc.? I've never seen a listing of what actors performed the roles or what "group" did the music.

> I once heard an actor named Keith Andes (?) talking in an old June Allyson movie and he sounded a lot like Cap in the 1960s cartoons, so I assumed that Andes played the role. But, of course, Tony Stark sounded a lot like Cary Grant in those cartoons, and he sure as heck didn't play that role. Does anyone know who performed these parts? I think that the voices of Cap and Thor were great.

> Also, the music, which is sung by a chorus of male & female singers. Great tunes, great old-time style. I'd really like to get an album of the people who did it (please, no laughter). I have a recording of a 1960s group called The Living Voices, a chorus of male & female singers who worked for Henry Mancini, and they have a similar style to those cartoon themes. So, does anyone know who performed those songs and if they did any other recordings?

> Rob

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Re: The...The power! I can feel it! (861)

Posted by Batroc on June 21, 1997 at 07:21:26 PDT
in reply to Re: The...The power! I can feel it! (858), posted by The Plaid Skull on June 20, 1997 at 23:40:06 PDT

> > > Hey, I'm #5000!!! Now I know I've asked for a prize before but this is a really, really, really, good number and is 100% prize worthy! So, howzabout it? Do I get a prize or something?
> > ...even I can't complain much about a 5K number.
> > Now 10K...THAT would be impressive.
> > In fact, there is now a prize for the 10K message...I'll figure out precisely what later... :)
> > This is of course assuming that its done honestly... :)
> > -DM
> I accept!! Wow, this is the first time someone has ever offered a prize! After all the begging and asking I've never gotten a prize for getting a certain number!! And when I win I will report it through out the message boards and everyone will know that I am Omnipotent! I hope it's a Cosmic Cube or the Infinity Gauntlet!!
»
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»
> Wherever there is injustice, tryanny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>I have sent you an ice replica of the cosmic cube. Since it has
been in the possesion of the Red Skull several times, I thought it
would be appropriate for you. Keep checking your mail box.
P.S. How dare you say I'm insane. I most certainly am not and I
have papers from the state department that say I can now be a useful
member of society as long as I have 3 electroshock treatments a month.
For that is the way of honor, the way of BATROC the Leaper.....

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Dear David Medinnus--Part II (862)

Posted by Batroc on June 21, 1997 at 07:26:00 PDT
in reply to Dear David Medinnus--Part II (857), posted by Batroc the Leaper on June 20, 1997 at 20:33:31 PDT

> >>I sent Ms. JeAnne Burch a long message on her E-mail concerning
> the alleged Maxon/Skull. I also discussed some of my mental wounds
> that are not healing properly. She may contact you and say, "What
> do you know about this self-styled Leaper"?
> You are patrioticly bound to say that I am a man of honor. It's
> coming to a head on this Maxon/Skull controversy. Too bad I'm the
> only person it bothers.
> Heres hoping that Ms. Burch sides with Ze Lepair on this one and
> changes the Skull bio to show Johann Schmidt as the ONE true Red
> Skull. Excelsior!!!! Batroc the Leaper...
>>>>I have already received E-Mail from Ms. Burch. She said she
will look into the Maxon/Skull controversy. That is the same thing
my US Senator says when I complain about the extra-terrestrials in
my back yard. They are too damned noisy. ZE LEPAIR

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Dear David Medinnus--Part II (863)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on June 21, 1997 at 08:19:53 PDT
in reply to Re: Dear David Medinnus--Part II (862), posted by Batroc on June 21, 1997 at 07:26:00 PDT

> > >>I sent Ms. JeAnne Burch a long message on her E-mail concerning
> > the alleged Maxon/Skull. I also discussed some of my mental wounds
> > that are not healing properly. She may contact you and say, "What
> > do you know about this self-styled Leaper"?
> > You are patrioticly bound to say that I am a man of honor. It's
> > coming to a head on this Maxon/Skull controversy. Too bad I'm the
> > only person it bothers.
> > Heres hoping that Ms. Burch sides with Ze Lepair on this one and
> > changes the Skull bio to show Johann Schmidt as the ONE true Red
> > Skull. Excelsior!!!! Batroc the Leaper...
> >>>>I have already received E-Mail from Ms. Burch. She said she
> will look into the Maxon/Skull controversy. That is the same thing
> my US Senator says when I complain about the extra-terrestrials in
> my back yard. They are too damned noisy. ZE LEPAIR


Hey, Leaper the Red Skull bio was updated in Terrorisim, Inc! I think you should go check it out!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Wherever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-04.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.36)



It is Finished.............. (864)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on June 21, 1997 at 14:39:06 PDT

>>>Thanks Plaid Skull, Medinnus, and JeAnne Burch. The Skull bio
has now been changed to show George Maxon as a pretender to the
title of Red Skull and Johann Schmidt as THE ONE TRUE RED SKULL.
Special thanks to Rob for helping me locate a Marvel Milestone
Edition of Captain America #1 (1941). I didn't know it existed and
God knows I couldn't afford an original.
What mad scheme will I go on next?? Just wait and see.......
Until then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Ze Lepair

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: 1960s Cap cartoon (865)

Posted by Rob on June 21, 1997 at 20:40:37 PDT
in reply to Re: 1960s Cap cartoon (860), posted by Rocy Leech on June 21, 1997 at 01:12:47 PDT


> I'd like to know where I could get a copy of the cartoons

They can sometimes be found at places which sell videotapes, rental stores, etc.

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)



Re: Classic Cap Game... (866)

Posted by TJ Burns on June 21, 1997 at 23:45:01 PDT
in reply to Re: Classic Cap Game... (822), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on June 18, 1997 at 08:49:44 PDT

> > > >
> > > > > > > Has Captain America Comics #1, Tales of Suspense #66, Avengers #16 ever been reprinted recently (like in the last 7-10 years)? I heard that a Captain America special came out in 1994(?) to celebrate his adventures.

> >
> > > > > > There was a "silver age special" reprint of Avengers #4 around three-five years ago.

> >
> > > > > > The Deluxe Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe had the Books of The Dead after the normal run, I am thinking. The whole series has proved hard to find.

> >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have almost the entire Book of the Dead collection! They weren't so hard to find! I think they should do an update though, for instance the Red Skull ain't dead anymore and neither is Mimic, Green Goblin I, Gamora, Pip, Drax, Thanos, Adam, Sharon Carter, Baron Stucker, Hobgoblin I, the Ringer, Vamp, and so forth! They should have an entirly new OHOTMU in the format of the 80's version!

> >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cya
> > > > > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > > > >
> > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!

> >
> > > > Yeah, that makes sense. It's been 10 yrs since they started the last edition. It's about time for a revision. When did they do that looseleaf thing where all the characters were drawn front, side and back? the artist for the whole thing was Keith Pollard. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

> >
> > > > Falcon

> >
> > > Yeah, I know what you're talking about!! That was the worst version ever!! It didn't give any useful information at all and it was hard to keep it together!! And before that it was Marvel Universe Update '89 which was in the same format as it always was which was great! That loose leaf crap was a joke!

> >
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!

> >
> > Yeah, that's why I steered clear of it. I thought assigning one artist to it was a dumb idea; boring, I expect, for the artist and also for the reader.

> > Falcon

> Hey!!!!! I won that entire loose leaf collection, along with a comic, a pack of Marvel Universe I cards, and a realy coll watch that had Spidey swinging on it and you opened it up to see the time.....I called up and answered a voice activated series of Spidey questions....I cheated by using a Wizard guide to get the exact 1st app. of the Rhino....awww memories of my dark past.
> Also, the first post guy asked about the 1994 series... I am thinking about the beautiful mini series that Fabian Nixzxnuibugogi did. The Adventures of captain America was an incredibly well written and beautifully drawn retelling of Cap's origin and had a great first adventure story in it!!!! It was the last decent thing that I have seen with Fabian's name on it.....

>
> Archivist Ned


I have the entire Book of Dead and a few normal OHOTMU issues. I would pay good money to see a new, bound version. Let's all go annoy Marvel
until it releases one.


TJB

Host = 206.28.33.120 (206.28.33.120)



Re: Secret Wars (867)

Posted by TJ Burns on June 21, 1997 at 23:56:21 PDT
in reply to Re: Secret Wars (819), posted by TLesch on June 18, 1997 at 05:54:27 PDT

> >
> > > > > > > > > In regards to Secret Wars: I looked throught them yesterday and I really don't see the art as being all that bad. My real complaint is with the story. Many of the characters weren't written very well and certain characters got more attention than others. One of the stupider things about it was that when these big battles were being fought, one of the heaviest hitters, Thor tended to stand around and look stupid.

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Falcon

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey,....Thor is at his best when he is standing around looking stupid!!!!! They should play up on that in the new Avangers series.....

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Black Widow: Um.... Cap??? Thor is zoning again.

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Captain America: *flings shield, which bounces off of Thor's noggin*

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thor: Oops...Verily, I have partaken of the hemp plant too often as of late.

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I thought that the art was much better in the first SW series than in the second. I still remember being psyched when I saw that add with Byrne's art and thought that he was doing it...but...*weep*...Art Milgrom.....yuck....1st series was incredible in comparison. The later issues looked rushed though. I was peeved that Spidey and the X-Men tussled so frequently and over the drop of a hat. Wolvie went into a beserker rage in record time and with no provocation.

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A Secretative Ned II

> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Aye verily, the etchings in the first series didst surpass the scrawlings in the second. But who really pays attention to the second series anymore? The 1st series may have been a little shoddy as far as the writing and drawings but at least it was more or less fun to read. Can't say that about the 2nd. The only good stories that came out of SW2 were the ones found in the regular titles.

> > > > >
> > > > > > > Falcon

> > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah!!!!! Do you remember when Spidey was faced with the moral dilemmna of whether to keep a solid gold notepad made by the Beyonder. He decided against it because it would upset the entire world in the effect that it would have on the gold market.....

> > > > >
> > > > > Er...no, which issue of which title was that?

> > > > > Falcon

> > > > It was in Web #6. It wasn't the notepad that was going to throw off the world economy though; one little notepad wouldn't do that. It was the fact that Spidey swiped the notepad from a huge office building that the Beyonder had transformed into pure gold. There was millions of tons of gold. Spidey wasn't sure taking the pad was right, even though it had been in a garbage can, but he decided it was time to get something for himself. Later, though, he wasn't so sure, and...I forget exactly what happened. i think someone stole the notepad from him, there ended up being a whole plot thread about it for issues and issues.

> > > > -Roscoe

> > > -There was a good SW2 story in Daredevil where the Beyonder offers him his sight back, and he refuses....pretty cool...

> > Actually, I think he accepted at first, but later asked the Beyonder to take the gift of sight back. I'm pretty sure because I remember him looking at a stroller-bound baby and the mother shot him dirty looks.

> > Falcon

> > Falcon

> -That sounds about right... man. I gotta alphabetize my collection, so I can find this stuff...

Re: Secret Wars


I think the original Secret Wars portrayed Captain America at his
best, as well as the James Rhodes Iron Man. Cap's Conversations with Doom, His defeat of the Infinitely powerful Dr. Doom, and his running
battle with Wolverine all stand out in my mind. Yes, Logan and his fellow X-Men were portrayed as jerks in this series, but it beats the current rendition. As for Jim Rhodes,(My favorite Marvel character),
he showed how competant even a newcomer could be. The only Secret Wars
II things I remember as good was the Beyonders dealings with the Avengers and his Creation of Kurse to menace Thor. Altogether, I liked the series.


TJB

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