Posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 05:34:35 PDT
in reply to Re: Strange Tales of Cap (1139), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 07, 1997 at 20:46:54 PDT

> > >>>The Leaper has picked up and perused Strange Tales 160-161 per the recommendations of Roscoe and Rob.
> > They were as good as advertised with Jim Steranko doing both the writing and art. His art would be better in his Cap run 110, 111, and 113.
> > I believe it is also the first appearance of Jimmy Woo and the first silver age apperance of the Yellow Claw (one of my all time favorite villians) See Cap 164-167 for THE classic Cap/Claw showdown.
> > I recomend the Steranko Strange Tales Caps (159-162?) to all fellow Cap fans.
> > Note to Rob: #161 had a cameo of the Yellow Claw in an epilogue that might have been deleted from your reprinted version.
> > The way of Honor...............Batroc
> Y'know some guy from another message board said that the Yellow Claw was a racist biggot creation and that's why they don't use him anymore! You think this is true?
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>>> He is no more of a bigot than the Red Skull. He tortured the black Gabe Jones because he saw him holding Peggy Carter's hand. He also called him some racial names (See Cap #185). The Sons of the Serpent are a bunch of bigots. The Claw has been around since the 1950's. I think he is a classic. He is a racist but to me that makes him even more of a dastardly villian that Cap and Nick need to take out.
You may be on to something Plaidy. The last appearance I remember for the Claw was 1987 (Marvel Fanfare #32) Anybody seen him in ten years??? The Leaper

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Posted by W.D. on July 08, 1997 at 09:32:29 PDT
in reply to Re: Quiz Question! (1132), posted by Rob on July 07, 1997 at 14:33:52 PDT

>
> > Cap-files,

> > What is the distinguishing thing about what Cap is doing on the cover on issue #247?

> > W.D.

> Um, holding his old triangle shield?

> Rob
> (relying on memory again!)

Correct! Good job! Now did you cheat and go dig out your copy of #247?!
=)
W.D.

Host = 199.222.162.39 (199.222.162.39)

Posted by W.D. on July 08, 1997 at 09:34:02 PDT
in reply to Re: Quiz Question! (1135), posted by Batroc on July 07, 1997 at 17:44:23 PDT

> »
> > > Cap-files,
> > > What is the distinguishing thing about what Cap is doing on the cover on issue #247?
> > > W.D.
> > Um, holding his old triangle shield?
> > Rob
> > (relying on memory again!)
> >>>>>You are correct sir, i can see nothing else except it is one of the few cover appearances of Dum Dum Dugan. He had a heart attack in #281 and semi-retired. I see he is now doing much better. I bet he is one of the few WWII veteran SHIELD field operatives.
> Was this a triv question? Batroc the Leaper

That's it, Batty! The shield part that is!
W.D.

Host = 199.222.162.39 (199.222.162.39)

Posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 09:45:41 PDT

Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
>>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.

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Posted by Patriot on July 08, 1997 at 10:10:36 PDT
in reply to Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1143), posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 09:45:41 PDT

> Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.

I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
Patriot.

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Posted by Tony Stark on July 08, 1997 at 11:20:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1144), posted by Patriot on July 08, 1997 at 10:10:36 PDT

>
> > Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> > ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> > Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> > >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> > How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.

> I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
> As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
> Patriot.

With the return of Waid and Garney after Heroes Return (yay!!!), maybe we can find out what was meant by that episode. Is the Skull dead? Now who are we kidding?

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 08, 1997 at 12:12:56 PDT
in reply to Re: Johann gets a second chance (1145), posted by Tony Stark on July 08, 1997 at 11:20:00 PDT

>
> >
> > > Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> > > ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> > > Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> > > >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> > > How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.

> > I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> > I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
> > As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
> > Patriot.

> With the return of Waid and Garney after Heroes Return (yay!!!), maybe we can find out what was meant by that episode. Is the Skull dead? Now who are we kidding?

I seem to remember that the Red Skull had a black henchman somewhere! Wait! That was HYDRA!! Whoops! But I swore I could've seen one black thug in his horde of hired guns! Hmmm...maybe during the Assasination Plot story line or the time when Spidey tries to find out about his parents! If Schmidt did have powers due to the Cosmic Cube do you think it would be a good idea? I kinda liked him as a regular guy!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 13:02:05 PDT
in reply to Re: Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1144), posted by Patriot on July 08, 1997 at 10:10:36 PDT

»
> > Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> > ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> > Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> > >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> > How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.
> I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
> As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
> Patriot.
>>Now we all know that the Red Skull is not dead. When Waid brings him back I hope he is not a super powerful amalganation of the Cube.
Now the Yellow Claw,,,he renounced his loyalty to Red China in Cap #165. I LIKE THE CLAW!! The animated mummies and zombies, the giant spiders and scorpions, the mind control. He can be modified easily to be a modern villian. Johann has changed his philosophy since WWII. The Claw can do the same.
I loved Cap 164-167 with the Yellow Claw. It was great stuff. Batroc

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Posted by Captain Comic on July 08, 1997 at 14:41:26 PDT
in reply to Re: Code Names (1086), posted by Roscoe on July 03, 1997 at 11:58:05 PDT

>
> > > Dang it, I got my code names confused. Crud.

> > > -Roscoe

> > Try only using one name.
> > A true Patriot needs no other false identities.
> >

> I don't want just one. I enjoy changing my name to suit the board I am posting on. SOmtimes I get confues between the Avengers and Cap boards, however, because of the overlap in topics.

> -Roscoe

MY code name suits ANY board... except on Biancas' smut shack, there I just look stupid.

Captain Comic

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 15:13:27 PDT
in reply to Re: Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1144), posted by Patriot on July 08, 1997 at 10:10:36 PDT

> I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.

Ummm...he was the villian in a Cap story in Marvel Universe about five(?) years ago, and the Avengers a few years before that...he was also a villain in the Nova first series (I think).

I think his lack of use is more due to the fact that there are other villians who fill the same role who are much more fun to use; the Mandarin, Baron Von Strucker, Dr. Doom, etc. Even Dr. Fu Manchu still kicks around the MU (as does his son Shang-Chi). Not to mention Magneto, Apocalypse, and the mutant side of the megalomaniac villain roster...

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 15:16:01 PDT
in reply to Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1118), posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 18:09:12 PDT

> Hey all

> The latest issue of TV Guide has an article entitled "About to Launch" which states that David Hasseloff will star as Marvel's very own Nick Fury in an upcoming Fox TV-Movie this fall.

I'm trying not to pre-judge it. But it was easier to give Liefield the benefit of the doubt prior to the HR stuff....(shudder)

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 15:20:54 PDT
in reply to Cap could have helped an old friend (1115), posted by Shocker on July 06, 1997 at 15:25:20 PDT

> What I'm trying to say is, Why didn't Cap give his shield to Wolverine as a gift to his longtime friend? It would be a favor by a war hero to a war hero. Instead he ended up as a dead jerk.

• Cap's shield would never work with Wolvie's fighting style.
  
• Logan and Steve are not friends. Allies occassionally, but not friends.
  
• He's not dead.
  
• Wolvie needs a skeleton, not a shield, and I doubt that even Stark could figure a way to melt The Shield.
  
• He's not a jerk; don't waste our time in being a troll.
  

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 08, 1997 at 15:25:26 PDT
in reply to Re: Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1147), posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 13:02:05 PDT

> »
> > > Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> > > ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> > > Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> > > >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> > > How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.
> > I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> > I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
> > As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
> > Patriot.
> >>Now we all know that the Red Skull is not dead. When Waid brings him back I hope he is not a super powerful amalganation of the Cube.
> Now the Yellow Claw,,,he renounced his loyalty to Red China in Cap #165. I LIKE THE CLAW!! The animated mummies and zombies, the giant spiders and scorpions, the mind control. He can be modified easily to be a modern villian. Johann has changed his philosophy since WWII. The Claw can do the same.
> I loved Cap 164-167 with the Yellow Claw. It was great stuff. Batroc

And exactly how did Johan change his philosophy? Isn't he still the hate-mongering nazi that he always was? When was this?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 15:32:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap could have helped an old friend (1116), posted by Roscoe on July 06, 1997 at 16:44:41 PDT

> If Cap was going to give his shield to anyone who survived...well, I can't think of anyone he'd give it to. Cap almost never lets anyone use his shield, much less have it. The only people I can think of who he'd give his shield to are Thor, Hawkeye and Nick Fury (maybe the original Bucky, but he is dead).

I think that Cap would loan his shield to anyone who either needed it more than he or could use it better than he in a combat situation; if he knew he was going to die, he might have given it to one of the X-Men.

But more likely he wasn't 100% sure he was going to die (never say die, Steve!) and more likely, he probably doesn't think of the shield as a tool, but rather akin to his right arm...

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Posted by Dave Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 15:35:19 PDT
in reply to Re: Avengers Poll Complete! (1096), posted by Batroc on July 04, 1997 at 19:07:20 PDT

>It looks like Cap is chairman, Scarlet Witch, Vision, Thor, Iron Man, Hawkeye. Now that is a line-up. Someone call Marvel. I'm sure Dave M. already has.

Actually, before Kurt Busiek left the message boards he requested that I send him a copy when it was done (which I did, of course).

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 15:37:23 PDT

There is another poll question at the Star-Spanfled Site

The question is "Who should Cap get romantically involved with?"

Go fill it out! Thanx!

-DM

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 16:15:46 PDT

For some time now, there has been an ever-growing anti-mutant sentiment growing in the Marvel Universe. It has always been in the background, but in the last five-ten years it has been getting to the point where it is no longer an underground thing; anti-mutant platforms are showing up in the USA political parties as political 'planks'; presidential candidates are now asked their stand on "the mutant issue" much as they are asked their stand on issues like abortion.

However, no serious presidential candidate, regardless of their stance on abortion, condones the 'pro-life' terrorism, the bombing of the clinics, the shooting of physicians who perform abortions, etc., even if they agree with the action in their heart of hearts. Condoning terrorism and muder is still considered a Bad Thing. Hell, we can't even get public agreement that three-time violent murderers should get the death penalty.

But then there is the Mutant Issue. Mutants are sacry, mutants are bad. Mutants are going to replace normal humans. Mutants are one of the leading causes of mayhem in the Marvel Universe. Mutants are the Root Of All Evil. At best they should be contained and controlled. At worst, they should all be destroyed. The government is currently sponsoring...how many different anti-mutant programs?

This is probably the ultimate prejudice; mutants can (and do) look like everybody else. Like anybody else. How are we supposed to know....you could be one. I could be one. Your sister could be one. Your sister could date one. Insideous and sneaky, aren't they?

And yet, the human embodiment of Tolerance, Freedom, and Human Rights has remained publicly silent on this issue. No, not Jesse Jackson; Captain America!

Captain America is not ignorant of these issues, yet he remains silent. He'll go to rallies and condemn ignorence, hatred, prejudice...he'll tell Baron Zemo I to fear the grip of a free man, he'll risk his all to save and succor those who are being oppressed; he is the friend of the downtrodden minority. He has fought Sentinals before, and he must have some idea that there are secret government programs spawning them like hyperthyrodic rabbits.

Who needs his help these days more than the mutants of the Marvel Universe? I cannot believe that the Red Skull hates mutants any less than he hates blacks, jews, homosexuals, and...just about anybody/everybody else. If you prick them, do they not bleed? Copiously, in fact, and all over the place?

Its not like Cap doesn't know and love mutants; he has bled in the cause of justice alongside his fellow Avengers the Beast, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, and Namor. He knows and respects Professor X, Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, etc...he has been the ally of many others. He knows these people, respects them, holds many of them in esteem and affection; these are his comrades in arms in the Good Fight.

Worse, currently in the Marvel Universe the mutants are being blamed for the 'sacrifice' of the Avengers and FF (et al) during the Onslaught saga; Cap and the other Avengers know the truth. When they return, they should speak out; they should do their utmost to stop the hatred, to put the story right, to publicly acknowledge the contributions that the mutants have made to saving all mankind, not once but time and time again. Stopping the lies, the misunderstandings, and the unthinking fear and hatred should be their top priority. Mutant hate is not just the problem for mutants to solve; unthinking prejudice and hatred are, as Cap has espoused again and again, everyone's problem.

I encourage you to "write your congressman" (attn: Bob Harrass) at Marvel Comics, and let them know that you agree with this position, either by snail mail or by post!

Attn: Bob Harras

Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc.

387 Park Avenue South

New York, NY 10016

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Posted by Roscoe on July 08, 1997 at 16:15:51 PDT
in reply to Re: Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1152), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 08, 1997 at 15:25:26 PDT

> > »
> > > > Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> > > > ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> > > > Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> > > > >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> > > > How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.
> > > I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> > > I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
> > > As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
> > > Patriot.
> > >>Now we all know that the Red Skull is not dead. When Waid brings him back I hope he is not a super powerful amalganation of the Cube.
> > Now the Yellow Claw,,,he renounced his loyalty to Red China in Cap #165. I LIKE THE CLAW!! The animated mummies and zombies, the giant spiders and scorpions, the mind control. He can be modified easily to be a modern villian. Johann has changed his philosophy since WWII. The Claw can do the same.
> > I loved Cap 164-167 with the Yellow Claw. It was great stuff. Batroc

> And exactly how did Johan change his philosophy? Isn't he still the hate-mongering nazi that he always was? When was this?

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

The Red Skull changed his philosophy when he was resurrected in Cap #350 (actually before that, but the flashback where he was revived was here). He would more appropriately be described now as either a nihilist (not really, but kinda) or perhaps the ultimate capitalist. He has embraced captialism and plans on using it to gain more and more power until nobody is left but Skull.

If I recall correctly.

-Roscoe

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 08, 1997 at 16:39:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1157), posted by Roscoe on July 08, 1997 at 16:15:51 PDT

> > > »
> > > > > Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> > > > > ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> > > > > Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> > > > > >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> > > > > How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.
> > > > I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> > > > I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
> > > > As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
> > > > Patriot.
> > > >>Now we all know that the Red Skull is not dead. When Waid brings him back I hope he is not a super powerful amalganation of the Cube.
> > > Now the Yellow Claw,,,he renounced his loyalty to Red China in Cap #165. I LIKE THE CLAW!! The animated mummies and zombies, the giant spiders and scorpions, the mind control. He can be modified easily to be a modern villian. Johann has changed his philosophy since WWII. The Claw can do the same.
> > > I loved Cap 164-167 with the Yellow Claw. It was great stuff. Batroc

> > And exactly how did Johan change his philosophy? Isn't he still the hate-mongering nazi that he always was? When was this?

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> The Red Skull changed his philosophy when he was resurrected in Cap #350 (actually before that, but the flashback where he was revived was here). He would more appropriately be described now as either a nihilist (not really, but kinda) or perhaps the ultimate capitalist. He has embraced captialism and plans on using it to gain more and more power until nobody is left but Skull.

> If I recall correctly.

> -Roscoe

Didn't the Skull say that he isn't a nihilist? He said that during the time when Viper was planning to blind all of America! I could be wrong though!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Posted by Roscoe on July 08, 1997 at 16:47:31 PDT
in reply to Re: Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1158), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 08, 1997 at 16:39:00 PDT

> > > > »
> > > > > > Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> > > > > > ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> > > > > > Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> > > > > > >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> > > > > > How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.
> > > > > I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> > > > > I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
> > > > > As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
> > > > > Patriot.
> > > > >>Now we all know that the Red Skull is not dead. When Waid brings him back I hope he is not a super powerful amalganation of the Cube.
> > > > Now the Yellow Claw,,,he renounced his loyalty to Red China in Cap #165. I LIKE THE CLAW!! The animated mummies and zombies, the giant spiders and scorpions, the mind control. He can be modified easily to be a modern villian. Johann has changed his philosophy since WWII. The Claw can do the same.
> > > > I loved Cap 164-167 with the Yellow Claw. It was great stuff. Batroc

> > > And exactly how did Johan change his philosophy? Isn't he still the hate-mongering nazi that he always was? When was this?

> >
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull

> > >
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > The Red Skull changed his philosophy when he was resurrected in Cap #350 (actually before that, but the flashback where he was revived was here). He would more appropriately be described now as either a nihilist (not really, but kinda) or perhaps the ultimate capitalist. He has embraced captialism and plans on using it to gain more and more power until nobody is left but Skull.

> > If I recall correctly.

> > -Roscoe

> Didn't the Skull say that he isn't a nihilist? He said that during the time when Viper was planning to blind all of America! I could be wrong though!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

That's what he said, but..I'm trying to figure out exactly what he intends. He wants to destroy America at least, but I'm not sure to what end, as he has renounced his Nazi ways.

-Roscoe

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Posted by Patriot on July 08, 1997 at 19:42:20 PDT
in reply to Cap and Mutant Hatred (1156), posted by David Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 16:15:46 PDT

> For some time now, there has been an ever-growing anti-mutant sentiment growing in the Marvel Universe. It has always been in the background, but in the last five-ten years it has been getting to the point where it is no longer an underground thing; anti-mutant platforms are showing up in the USA political parties as political 'planks'; presidential candidates are now asked their stand on "the mutant issue" much as they are asked their stand on issues like abortion.
>

> However, no serious presidential candidate, regardless of their stance on abortion, condones the 'pro-life' terrorism, the bombing of the clinics, the shooting of physicians who perform abortions, etc., even if they agree with the action in their heart of hearts. Condoning terrorism and muder is still considered a Bad Thing. Hell, we can't even get public agreement that three-time violent murderers should get the death penalty.
>

> But then there is the Mutant Issue. Mutants are sacry, mutants are bad. Mutants are going to replace normal humans. Mutants are one of the leading causes of mayhem in the Marvel Universe. Mutants are the Root Of All Evil. At best they should be contained and controlled. At worst, they should all be destroyed. The government is currently sponsoring...how many different anti-mutant programs?
>

> This is probably the ultimate prejudice; mutants can (and do) look like everybody else. Like anybody else. How are we supposed to know....you could be one. I could be one. Your sister could be one. Your sister could date one. Insideous and sneaky, aren't they?
>

> And yet, the human embodiment of Tolerance, Freedom, and Human Rights has remained publicly silent on this issue. No, not Jesse Jackson; Captain America!
>

> Captain America is not ignorant of these issues, yet he remains silent. He'll go to rallies and condemn ignorence, hatred, prejudice...he'll tell Baron Zemo I to fear the grip of a free man, he'll risk his all to save and succor those who are being oppressed; he is the friend of the downtrodden minority. He has fought Sentinals before, and he must have some idea that there are secret government programs spawning them like hyperthyrodic rabbits.
>

> Who needs his help these days more than the mutants of the Marvel Universe? I cannot believe that the Red Skull hates mutants any less than he hates blacks, jews, homosexuals, and...just about anybody/everybody else. If you prick them, do they not bleed? Copiously, in fact, and all over the place?
>

> Its not like Cap doesn't know and love mutants; he has bled in the cause of justice alongside his fellow Avengers the Beast, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, and Namor. He knows and respects Professor X, Cyclops, Iceman, Angel, etc...he has been the ally of many others. He knows these people, respects them, holds many of them in esteem and affection; these are his comrades in arms in the Good Fight.
>

> Worse, currently in the Marvel Universe the mutants are being blamed for the 'sacrifice' of the Avengers and FF (et al) during the Onslaught saga; Cap and the other Avengers know the truth. When they return, they should speak out; they should do their utmost to stop the hatred, to put the story right, to publicly acknowledge the contributions that the mutants have made to saving all mankind, not once but time and time again. Stopping the lies, the misunderstandings, and the unthinking fear and hatred should be their top priority. Mutant hate is not just the problem for mutants to solve; unthinking prejudice and hatred are, as Cap has espoused again and again, everyone's problem.
>

> I encourage you to "write your congressman" (attn: Bob Harrass) at Marvel Comics, and let them know that you agree with this position, either by snail mail or by post!
>

> Attn: Bob Harras

> Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc.

> 387 Park Avenue South

> New York, NY 10016

>
>
Just so you know, I agree totally with your stance and have e-mailed Bob Harras. I left you a message on the Avengers board to read.

Patriot.

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Posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 20:29:19 PDT
in reply to Re: Equal Opportunity Skull!! (1159), posted by Roscoe on July 08, 1997 at 16:47:31 PDT

> > > > > »
> > > > > > > Referring back to Plaidy's post. There are alot of villians who are rascist. I think this allows the reader to easily identify the bad guys as villians.
> > > > > > > ...Now the Red Skull is not an equal opportunity employer, I do not know him to have employed a Jew, an Oriental, or a Black in his 50+ years of pursuing evil.
> > > > > > > Unless you count him mind controlling Sam Wilson for a while. Affirmative Action legilation makes Johann even more of a criminal.
> > > > > > > >>>>You know what would be an interesting story, The Trial of the Red Skull.
> > > > > > > How many counts of murder one would there be?? How many conspiracy counts?? He would probably have to stand trial in a Nuremburg type setting, similar to the trial of Magneto. Claremont tried to make us feel sorry for Magneto but I think there is no symphaty for Johann except maybe from the Plaid Skull.
> > > > > > I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> > > > > > I would LOVE to see a trial for the Red Skull. It would make a supurb series and would make him look all the more villainous when all his crimes are brought to the reader all at once.
> > > > > > As a side note, I wonder what Waid had planned when he had Skull "disarmed" by Cap's shield and vaporized by the Cube. With the Heroes Return storyline, maybe we'll never know.
> > > > > > Patriot.
> > > > > >>Now we all know that the Red Skull is not dead. When Waid brings him back I hope he is not a super powerful amalganation of the Cube.
> > > > > Now the Yellow Claw,,,he renounced his loyalty to Red China in Cap #165. I LIKE THE CLAW!! The animated mummies and zombies, the giant spiders and scorpions, the mind control. He can be modified easily to be a modern villian. Johann has changed his philosophy since WWII. The Claw can do the same.
> > > > > I loved Cap 164-167 with the Yellow Claw. It was great stuff. Batroc
> > > > And exactly how did Johan change his philosophy? Isn't he still the hate-mongering nazi that he always was? When was this?
> > »
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > »
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > The Red Skull changed his philosophy when he was resurrected in Cap #350 (actually before that, but the flashback where he was revived was here). He would more appropriately be described now as either a nihilist (not really, but kinda) or perhaps the ultimate capitalist. He has embraced captialism and plans on using it to gain more and more power until nobody is left but Skull.
> > > If I recall correctly.
> > > -Roscoe
> > Didn't the Skull say that he isn't a nihilist? He said that during the time when Viper was planning to blind all of America! I could be wrong though!
»
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> That's what he said, but..I'm trying to figure out exactly what he intends. He wants to destroy America at least, but I'm not sure to what end, as he has renounced his Nazi ways. Roscoe
»>>>The Skull explains his philosophy to the Kingpin in the Streets of Poison saga (I want to say #375). I don't have the most recent Cap books acsessable right now. Something about he wanted the drug "ice" to become popular in America to further weaken our spirit. I believe he also firmly tells the Kingpin that he has renounce National Socialism. Roscoe, check me on this because you know I have been known to be WRONG every now and then. I still like the Yellow Claw. I love it when the skywriting airplane makes the yellow claw emblem in the air after the Claw has performed some heinous act. Oh well,,,,,,Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 20:46:43 PDT
in reply to The Yellow Claw Blues (1149), posted by Dave Medinnus on July 08, 1997 at 15:13:27 PDT

»
> > I think the reason that Yellow Claw has not been used in over ten years is that he is a stereotype that many people find offensive. He has also not been turned into an Icon like Red Skull. Johann has become intrenched in comic culture like Joker or Two Face. Yellow Claw is from a China bashing paranoid era and should be definately revamped before using him.
> Ummm...he was the villian in a Cap story in Marvel Universe about five(?) years ago, and the Avengers a few years before that...he was also a villain in the Nova first series (I think).
> I think his lack of use is more due to the fact that there are other villians who fill the same role who are much more fun to use; the Mandarin, Baron Von Strucker, Dr. Doom, etc. Even Dr. Fu Manchu still kicks around the MU (as does his son Shang-Chi). Not to mention Magneto, Apocalypse, and the mutant side of the megalomaniac villain roster...
»
>>>> No one can say "imperialistic dog" while slapping the hell out of you like the Yellow Claw! For what it is worth...Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 20:58:52 PDT

In reply to Roscoe,,,, I liked Cap #111 (Steranko), #193 (Kirby),
#383 (Lim), and #450 (Garney, Clark Kent pose). I guess I am eclectic about Cap's artist. However, I seem to like him in heroic poses.
I did like #115's cover where he is trapped inside the Red Skull's cosmic cube. This may even be a Colan cover!!
Did anyone like Ron Lim's work besides me??? I noticed no one listed him as one of the top Cap artists.
>P.S. I know someone is going to dog me because I left out Mike Zeck. Sorry, go ahead.
Batroc the Leaper......

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Rob on July 08, 1997 at 23:59:55 PDT
in reply to Favorite Cap Covers (1163), posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 20:58:52 PDT

> In reply to Roscoe,,,, I liked Cap #111 (Steranko), #193 (Kirby),
> #383 (Lim), and #450 (Garney, Clark Kent pose). I guess I am eclectic about Cap's artist. However, I seem to like him in heroic poses.
> I did like #115's cover where he is trapped inside the Red Skull's cosmic cube. This may even be a Colan cover!!
> Did anyone like Ron Lim's work besides me??? I noticed no one listed him as one of the top Cap artists.
> >P.S. I know someone is going to dog me because I left out Mike Zeck. Sorry, go ahead.
> Batroc the Leaper......

Hey, click here to see some great Cap covers!!!!!

Rob

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 09, 1997 at 01:24:58 PDT
in reply to Speaking of Cap covers...... (1164), posted by Rob on July 08, 1997 at 23:59:55 PDT

>
> > In reply to Roscoe,,,, I liked Cap #111 (Steranko), #193 (Kirby),
> > #383 (Lim), and #450 (Garney, Clark Kent pose). I guess I am eclectic about Cap's artist. However, I seem to like him in heroic poses.
> > I did like #115's cover where he is trapped inside the Red Skull's cosmic cube. This may even be a Colan cover!!
> > Did anyone like Ron Lim's work besides me??? I noticed no one listed him as one of the top Cap artists.
> > >P.S. I know someone is going to dog me because I left out Mike Zeck. Sorry, go ahead.
> > Batroc the Leaper......

>
> Hey, click here to see some great Cap covers!!!!!

> Rob

There is no doubt in my warped, twisted, evil, and depraved mind that this is THE BEST cover in Cap history! Muahahahahahahahahahha!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-24.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.56)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on July 09, 1997 at 07:01:07 PDT
in reply to Re: Speaking of Cap covers...... (1165), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 09, 1997 at 01:24:58 PDT

> >
> > > In reply to Roscoe,,,, I liked Cap #111 (Steranko), #193 (Kirby),
> > > #383 (Lim), and #450 (Garney, Clark Kent pose). I guess I am eclectic about Cap's artist. However, I seem to like him in heroic poses.
> > > I did like #115's cover where he is trapped inside the Red Skull's cosmic cube. This may even be a Colan cover!!
> > > Did anyone like Ron Lim's work besides me??? I noticed no one listed him as one of the top Cap artists.
> > > >P.S. I know someone is going to dog me because I left out Mike Zeck. Sorry, go ahead.
> > > Batroc the Leaper......

> >
> > Hey, click here to see some great Cap covers!!!!!

> > Rob

>
> There is no doubt in my warped, twisted, evil, and depraved mind that this is THE BEST cover in Cap history! Muahahahahahahahahahha!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

I'm #6400!!! Soon, the cube will be mine!!!!!
Oh...um...one of my favorite covers would be #100. The Byrne covers are really nice to look at and the Sterenko cover with the Hulk on it would be at the top of the list also....a lot of them at the top huh???....nope, I'm not skirting around the question....I'm not!!!!!

An Indecisive Ned (bet ya can't pick just one)

Host = 155.42.31.199 (155.42.31.199)

Posted by Falcon on July 09, 1997 at 07:49:30 PDT
in reply to Speaking of Cap covers...... (1164), posted by Rob on July 08, 1997 at 23:59:55 PDT

>
> > In reply to Roscoe,,,, I liked Cap #111 (Steranko), #193 (Kirby),
> > #383 (Lim), and #450 (Garney, Clark Kent pose). I guess I am eclectic about Cap's artist. However, I seem to like him in heroic poses.
> > I did like #115's cover where he is trapped inside the Red Skull's cosmic cube. This may even be a Colan cover!!
> > Did anyone like Ron Lim's work besides me??? I noticed no one listed him as one of the top Cap artists.
> > >P.S. I know someone is going to dog me because I left out Mike Zeck. Sorry, go ahead.
> > Batroc the Leaper......

>
> Hey, click here to see some great Cap covers!!!!!

> Rob

The cover to CAP 264 shows the original X-Men chained by their wrists and surrounded by soldiers who are fighting w/ Cap and Falcon. In regards to Dave Meddinus's post about mutant hatred, is Cap defending the X-Men here (I'm assuming he is)? If not what's going on and why are they wearing their old costumes anyway?

Falcon

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Posted by Batroc on July 09, 1997 at 13:34:59 PDT
in reply to Re: Speaking of Cap covers...... (1167), posted by Falcon on July 09, 1997 at 07:49:30 PDT

> »
> > > In reply to Roscoe,,,, I liked Cap #111 (Steranko), #193 (Kirby),
> > > #383 (Lim), and #450 (Garney, Clark Kent pose). I guess I am eclectic about Cap's artist. However, I seem to like him in heroic poses.
> > > I did like #115's cover where he is trapped inside the Red Skull's cosmic cube. This may even be a Colan cover!!
> > > Did anyone like Ron Lim's work besides me??? I noticed no one listed him as one of the top Cap artists.
> > > >P.S. I know someone is going to dog me because I left out Mike Zeck. Sorry, go ahead.
> > > Batroc the Leaper......
»
> »
> > Hey, click here to see some great Cap covers!!!!!
»
> > Rob
> The cover to CAP 264 shows the original X-Men chained by their wrists and surrounded by soldiers who are fighting w/ Cap and Falcon. In regards to Dave Meddinus's post about mutant hatred, is Cap defending the X-Men here (I'm assuming he is)? If not what's going on and why are they wearing their old costumes anyway?
> Falcon
>>> In this issue 4 high order psi's have altered reality with a unique amplifier. There four different peceptions of what an utopian America should be led to some wild realities. In one nazi reality, Blacks, Jews , and Mutants are placed in concentration camps and are paraded through the streets in chains. Cap does free the X-men and the others in the name of freedom. The story was by DeMatteis/Zeck. I kinda liked it. As you can imagine, in this reality the original X-men were in their original uniforms. Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Falcon on July 09, 1997 at 17:06:58 PDT
in reply to Cap #264 (1168), posted by Batroc on July 09, 1997 at 13:34:59 PDT

> > > Hey, click here to see some great Cap covers!!!!!
> »
> > > Rob
> > The cover to CAP 264 shows the original X-Men chained by their wrists and surrounded by soldiers who are fighting w/ Cap and Falcon. In regards to Dave Meddinus's post about mutant hatred, is Cap defending the X-Men here (I'm assuming he is)? If not what's going on and why are they wearing their old costumes anyway?
> > Falcon
> >>> In this issue 4 high order psi's have altered reality with a unique amplifier. There four different peceptions of what an utopian America should be led to some wild realities. In one nazi reality, Blacks, Jews , and Mutants are placed in concentration camps and are paraded through the streets in chains. Cap does free the X-men and the others in the name of freedom. The story was by DeMatteis/Zeck. I kinda liked it. As you can imagine, in this reality the original X-men were in their original uniforms. Batroc the Leaper

Thanks for the summary. I'll check it out.

Falcon

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Posted by Rob on July 09, 1997 at 17:58:18 PDT
in reply to Favorite Cap Covers (1163), posted by Batroc on July 08, 1997 at 20:58:52 PDT

> Did anyone like Ron Lim's work besides me??? I noticed no one listed him as one of the top Cap artists.
> Batroc the Leaper......

He'd been okay if he hadn't made Cap's head look so funny...kinda flattened in a weird way sometimes, I seem to recall....?

Anyway, here's the real reason for this post: their was a message on the Silver Surfer message board saying that Ron Lim will be drawing Capt America #13!

Rob

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Posted by The Devil on July 09, 1997 at 18:47:53 PDT

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Posted by Beavis on July 10, 1997 at 12:04:05 PDT
in reply to First Six Issues Of Waid/Garney (1171), posted by The Devil on July 09, 1997 at 18:47:53 PDT

>
>

>

>

ya ya those covers are cool. hahahahayayayayayyayayayayayyayyaaaahhhhhhhh.

Host = slip129-37-153-169.on.ca.ibm.net (129.37.153.169)

Posted by Butthead on July 10, 1997 at 13:42:59 PDT
in reply to Re: First Six Issues Of Waid/Garney(ya cool cover art, yah yah) (1172), posted by Beavis on July 10, 1997 at 12:04:05 PDT

> >
> >

> >

> >

> ya ya those covers are cool. hahahahayayayayayyayayayayayyayyaaaahhhhhhhh.

Shut up Beavis (you probably expected this didn't you)

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)

Posted by Tucci on July 10, 1997 at 18:08:14 PDT

I was just thinkin about all the wacky things that have happened to
Cap in the last couple of years, without him even having a break
to sit down and settle things out.

1. Finds that the Super-Soldier Serum is deteriorating and he will
die if he doesn't reitre.
2. Pseudo-Girlfriend leaves him to become operative of Superia
3. Nearly dies from heart attack
4. Wears Robo-Cap uniform to fight again.
5. Heart gives out and he "dies".
6. Revived by the Red Skull.
7. Finds that Sharon Carter is still alive.
8. Is striped of citizenship and deported.
9. "Dies" again at the hands of Onslaught.
10. Is drawn by Rob Liefield.
11. Apparently is coming back to the "real" universe.

I hope Waid at least gives him a chance to rest when he comes back.
Cap's been through an awful lot.

Host = bomb010.ursinus.edu (192.204.145.104)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on July 10, 1997 at 18:08:36 PDT

>> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
>>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
>>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
>>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 10, 1997 at 18:13:24 PDT
in reply to Captain America #10 (spoilers) (1175), posted by Batroc the Leaper on July 10, 1997 at 18:08:36 PDT

> >> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
> >>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
> >>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
> Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
> >>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
> The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper

Hmmmm...don't you find it strange that Falcon grew his hair back so fast? And what happened to Bucky's skin-headed bro? And isn't Bucky's grand dad the original Bucky?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-09.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.73)

Posted by Batroc on July 10, 1997 at 18:19:38 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America #10 (spoilers) (1176), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 10, 1997 at 18:13:24 PDT

> > >> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
> > >>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
> > >>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
> > Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
> > >>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
> > The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper
> Hmmmm...don't you find it strange that Falcon grew his hair back so fast? And what happened to Bucky's skin-headed bro? And isn't Bucky's grand dad the original Bucky?
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>Plaidy, I feel it only fair to tell you that Aron the Evil Watcher was impersonating you on the chat board last night.
Anyway, Sam has had time to grow his hair. Bucky's brother is in prison on a conspiracy rap I'm sure and WHO said Bucky is James Buchanan Barnes grand daughter. When did Buck father a child?? I never even saw him with a girl. Was he hitting on Betty Ross behind Caps back. That little ingrateful....Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by TLesch on July 10, 1997 at 18:56:40 PDT
in reply to Re: Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1122), posted by Michael Kaiser on July 06, 1997 at 20:51:33 PDT

> > > Hey all

> > > The latest issue of TV Guide has an article entitled "About to Launch" which states that David Hasseloff will star as Marvel's very own Nick Fury in an upcoming Fox TV-Movie this fall.

> > > Mike....

> > There was a picture of him in there too...or in something I saw. He was wearing the eyepatch. Didn't look too bad, but then, a photo can't act. Neither can Hasslehoff.

> > -Roscoe

> Yep. There was a picture too. I think they should have got Clint Eastwood. Heh.

> Mike....

-Sorry, but Hasselhoff looks like a lightweight. We need a tough Fury! Hasselhoff's too "pretty". A young Eastwood would have been perfect! How about Steven Seagall? At any rate, instinct tells me this will be yet another crappy Marvel film.
If Generation X flopped, this one ain't gonna fare any better. I hate being a comics fan sometimes. These movies depress me. I'd like to know how much control Stan has had over these lousy films. Afetr all, wasn't that his job these last couple of decades? If these were my creations, I'd be like a Todd McFarlane with them, very protective, and not so eager to jump into bed with the first film company that came along!

Host = ww-tb02.proxy.aol.com (152.163.206.6)

Posted by Patriot on July 10, 1997 at 19:48:46 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America #10 (spoilers) (1177), posted by Batroc on July 10, 1997 at 18:19:38 PDT

> > > >> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
> > > >>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
> > > >>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
> > > Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
> > > >>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
> > > The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper
> > Hmmmm...don't you find it strange that Falcon grew his hair back so fast? And what happened to Bucky's skin-headed bro? And isn't Bucky's grand dad the original Bucky?
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> >>Plaidy, I feel it only fair to tell you that Aron the Evil Watcher was impersonating you on the chat board last night.
> Anyway, Sam has had time to grow his hair. Bucky's brother is in prison on a conspiracy rap I'm sure and WHO said Bucky is James Buchanan Barnes grand daughter. When did Buck father a child?? I never even saw him with a girl. Was he hitting on Betty Ross behind Caps back. That little ingrateful....Batroc
I just hope the green blood and the Falcon's miraculous recovery are wiped out when HR ends. I really liked what Lee did with both his HR titles but most changes that Rob made simply need to go away. I really just want to forget about them.
An amnesiatic Patriot.

Host = fastppp158.idirect.com (207.136.97.158)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 10, 1997 at 20:12:05 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America #10 (spoilers) (1179), posted by Patriot on July 10, 1997 at 19:48:46 PDT

>
> > > > >> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
> > > > >>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
> > > > >>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
> > > > Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
> > > > >>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
> > > > The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper
> > > Hmmmm...don't you find it strange that Falcon grew his hair back so fast? And what happened to Bucky's skin-headed bro? And isn't Bucky's grand dad the original Bucky?
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull
> > »
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > >>Plaidy, I feel it only fair to tell you that Aron the Evil Watcher was impersonating you on the chat board last night.
> > Anyway, Sam has had time to grow his hair. Bucky's brother is in prison on a conspiracy rap I'm sure and WHO said Bucky is James Buchanan Barnes grand daughter. When did Buck father a child?? I never even saw him with a girl. Was he hitting on Betty Ross behind Caps back. That little ingrateful....Batroc
> I just hope the green blood and the Falcon's miraculous recovery are wiped out when HR ends. I really liked what Lee did with both his HR titles but most changes that Rob made simply need to go away. I really just want to forget about them.
> An amnesiatic Patriot.

I just went on the assumption that her last name was Barnes and that her dad was supposedly a veteran I think that he was Bucky! Aron,huh? Isn't he the vessel for THE ONE? Did you notice that in the Heroes Return ad Cap got his eagle erased and an "A" was put in its place? It was Liefield's drawing of the Avengers and it's not new! I remember the original had the eagle!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-05.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.37)

Posted by Falcon on July 11, 1997 at 06:16:04 PDT
in reply to Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1174), posted by Tucci on July 10, 1997 at 18:08:14 PDT

> I was just thinkin about all the wacky things that have happened to
> Cap in the last couple of years, without him even having a break
> to sit down and settle things out.

> 1. Finds that the Super-Soldier Serum is deteriorating and he will
> die if he doesn't reitre.
> 2. Pseudo-Girlfriend leaves him to become operative of Superia
> 3. Nearly dies from heart attack
> 4. Wears Robo-Cap uniform to fight again.
> 5. Heart gives out and he "dies".
> 6. Revived by the Red Skull.
> 7. Finds that Sharon Carter is still alive.
> 8. Is striped of citizenship and deported.
> 9. "Dies" again at the hands of Onslaught.
> 10. Is drawn by Rob Liefield.
> 11. Apparently is coming back to the "real" universe.

> I hope Waid at least gives him a chance to rest when he comes back.
> Cap's been through an awful lot.

The Rob Liefeld ordeal had to be the worst!. But seriously, what happened to the Robo-Cap suit? Was the Super-Serum re-injected or something?

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)

Posted by Falcon on July 11, 1997 at 06:25:39 PDT
in reply to Re: Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1178), posted by TLesch on July 10, 1997 at 18:56:40 PDT

> -Sorry, but Hasselhoff looks like a lightweight. We need a tough Fury! Hasselhoff's too "pretty". A young Eastwood would have been perfect! How about Steven Seagall? At any rate, instinct tells me this will be yet another crappy Marvel film.
> If Generation X flopped, this one ain't gonna fare any better. I hate being a comics fan sometimes. These movies depress me. I'd like to know how much control Stan has had over these lousy films. Afetr all, wasn't that his job these last couple of decades? If these were my creations, I'd be like a Todd McFarlane with them, very protective, and not so eager to jump into bed with the first film company that came along!

I almost retch at the thought of Hasselhoff as Fury; what a joke. The best actor I can think of to fill the part would be Bruce Willis. I think that would work, but nooo, they had to make a cheesy flick with a guy who stars on crappy but inexplicably popular TV shows and makes inexplicably popular music (though thank goodness, not in the USA).

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)

Posted by Patriot on July 11, 1997 at 10:59:16 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1181), posted by Falcon on July 11, 1997 at 06:16:04 PDT

> > I was just thinkin about all the wacky things that have happened to
> > Cap in the last couple of years, without him even having a break
> > to sit down and settle things out.

>
> > 1. Finds that the Super-Soldier Serum is deteriorating and he will
> > die if he doesn't reitre.
> > 2. Pseudo-Girlfriend leaves him to become operative of Superia
> > 3. Nearly dies from heart attack
> > 4. Wears Robo-Cap uniform to fight again.
> > 5. Heart gives out and he "dies".
> > 6. Revived by the Red Skull.
> > 7. Finds that Sharon Carter is still alive.
> > 8. Is striped of citizenship and deported.
> > 9. "Dies" again at the hands of Onslaught.
> > 10. Is drawn by Rob Liefield.
> > 11. Apparently is coming back to the "real" universe.

> > I hope Waid at least gives him a chance to rest when he comes back.
> > Cap's been through an awful lot.

>
> The Rob Liefeld ordeal had to be the worst!. But seriously, what happened to the Robo-Cap suit? Was the Super-Serum re-injected or something?

> Falcon

Red Skull (who was now in a cloned body of Steve Rogers) used his own blood to do a transfusion and purify Cap's super soldier formula. What I find strange is that no one ever explained WHY the ss formula deteriorated in the first place. I hated this storyline more than Cap Wolf. I'd like to think the Streets Of Poison drug overdose had something to do with it. The influx of drugs, the full body transfusion combined with the formula replicating in his blood might have altered the original matrix.
I assume the Cap armor was kept by the Red Skull's goons.

At least Jeff Mace only got cancer and died.

Patriot.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)

Posted by Falcon on July 11, 1997 at 12:41:28 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1183), posted by Patriot on July 11, 1997 at 10:59:16 PDT

>
> > > I was just thinkin about all the wacky things that have happened to
> > > Cap in the last couple of years, without him even having a break
> > > to sit down and settle things out.

> >
> > > 1. Finds that the Super-Soldier Serum is deteriorating and he will
> > > die if he doesn't reitre.
> > > 2. Pseudo-Girlfriend leaves him to become operative of Superia
> > > 3. Nearly dies from heart attack
> > > 4. Wears Robo-Cap uniform to fight again.
> > > 5. Heart gives out and he "dies".
> > > 6. Revived by the Red Skull.
> > > 7. Finds that Sharon Carter is still alive.
> > > 8. Is striped of citizenship and deported.
> > > 9. "Dies" again at the hands of Onslaught.
> > > 10. Is drawn by Rob Liefield.
> > > 11. Apparently is coming back to the "real" universe.

> > > I hope Waid at least gives him a chance to rest when he comes back.
> > > Cap's been through an awful lot.

> >
> > The Rob Liefeld ordeal had to be the worst!. But seriously, what happened to the Robo-Cap suit? Was the Super-Serum re-injected or something?

> > Falcon

> Red Skull (who was now in a cloned body of Steve Rogers) used his own blood to do a transfusion and purify Cap's super soldier formula. What I find strange is that no one ever explained WHY the ss formula deteriorated in the first place. I hated this storyline more than Cap Wolf. I'd like to think the Streets Of Poison drug overdose had something to do with it. The influx of drugs, the full body transfusion combined with the formula replicating in his blood might have altered the original matrix.
> I assume the Cap armor was kept by the Red Skull's goons.

> At least Jeff Mace only got cancer and died.

> Patriot.

Thanks Patriot, but that brings up the question of why the Red Skull saved Cap's life.

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)

Posted by Tucci on July 11, 1997 at 12:46:05 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1184), posted by Falcon on July 11, 1997 at 12:41:28 PDT

> >
> > > > I was just thinkin about all the wacky things that have happened to
> > > > Cap in the last couple of years, without him even having a break
> > > > to sit down and settle things out.

>
> > >
> > > > 1. Finds that the Super-Soldier Serum is deteriorating and he will
> > > > die if he doesn't reitre.
> > > > 2. Pseudo-Girlfriend leaves him to become operative of Superia
> > > > 3. Nearly dies from heart attack
> > > > 4. Wears Robo-Cap uniform to fight again.
> > > > 5. Heart gives out and he "dies".
> > > > 6. Revived by the Red Skull.
> > > > 7. Finds that Sharon Carter is still alive.
> > > > 8. Is striped of citizenship and deported.
> > > > 9. "Dies" again at the hands of Onslaught.
> > > > 10. Is drawn by Rob Liefield.
> > > > 11. Apparently is coming back to the "real" universe.

>
> > > > I hope Waid at least gives him a chance to rest when he comes back.
> > > > Cap's been through an awful lot.

>
> > >
> > > The Rob Liefeld ordeal had to be the worst!. But seriously, what happened to the Robo-Cap suit? Was the Super-Serum re-injected or something?

>
> > > Falcon

>
> > Red Skull (who was now in a cloned body of Steve Rogers) used his own blood to do a transfusion and purify Cap's super soldier formula. What I find strange is that no one ever explained WHY the ss formula deteriorated in the first place. I hated this storyline more than Cap Wolf. I'd like to think the Streets Of Poison drug overdose had something to do with it. The influx of drugs, the full body transfusion combined with the formula replicating in his blood might have altered the original matrix.
> > I assume the Cap armor was kept by the Red Skull's goons.

>
> > At least Jeff Mace only got cancer and died.

>
> > Patriot.

> Thanks Patriot, but that brings up the question of why the Red Skull saved Cap's life.

> Falcon

I think the Red Skull needed Cap's help to defeat an Ultra-Powerful
enemy that was trying to remove Hitler from the Cosmic Cube...
I know it sounds ridiculous.. but I think that's it...

Tuc

Host = bomb006.ursinus.edu (192.204.145.123)

Posted by Roscoe on July 11, 1997 at 15:34:16 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1185), posted by Tucci on July 11, 1997 at 12:46:05 PDT

> > >
> > > > > I was just thinkin about all the wacky things that have happened to
> > > > > Cap in the last couple of years, without him even having a break
> > > > > to sit down and settle things out.

> >
> > > >
> > > > > 1. Finds that the Super-Soldier Serum is deteriorating and he will
> > > > > die if he doesn't reitre.
> > > > > 2. Pseudo-Girlfriend leaves him to become operative of Superia
> > > > > 3. Nearly dies from heart attack
> > > > > 4. Wears Robo-Cap uniform to fight again.
> > > > > 5. Heart gives out and he "dies".
> > > > > 6. Revived by the Red Skull.
> > > > > 7. Finds that Sharon Carter is still alive.
> > > > > 8. Is striped of citizenship and deported.
> > > > > 9. "Dies" again at the hands of Onslaught.
> > > > > 10. Is drawn by Rob Liefield.
> > > > > 11. Apparently is coming back to the "real" universe.

> >
> > > > > I hope Waid at least gives him a chance to rest when he comes back.
> > > > > Cap's been through an awful lot.

> >
> > > >
> > > > The Rob Liefeld ordeal had to be the worst!. But seriously, what happened to the Robo-Cap suit? Was the Super-Serum re-injected or something?

> >
> > > > Falcon

> >
> > > Red Skull (who was now in a cloned body of Steve Rogers) used his own blood to do a transfusion and purify Cap's super soldier formula. What I find strange is that no one ever explained WHY the ss formula deteriorated in the first place. I hated this storyline more than Cap Wolf. I'd like to think the Streets Of Poison drug overdose had something to do with it. The influx of drugs, the full body transfusion combined with the formula replicating in his blood might have altered the original matrix.
> > > I assume the Cap armor was kept by the Red Skull's goons.

> >
> > > At least Jeff Mace only got cancer and died.

> >
> > > Patriot.

> > Thanks Patriot, but that brings up the question of why the Red Skull saved Cap's life.

> > Falcon

> I think the Red Skull needed Cap's help to defeat an Ultra-Powerful
> enemy that was trying to remove Hitler from the Cosmic Cube...
> I know it sounds ridiculous.. but I think that's it...

> Tuc

The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma3-17.ix.netcom.com (206.217.145.81)

Posted by Nightman on July 11, 1997 at 16:45:24 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America #10 (spoilers) (1180), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 10, 1997 at 20:12:05 PDT

> >
> > > > > >> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
> > > > > >>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
> > > > > >>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
> > > > > Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
> > > > > >>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
> > > > > The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper
> > > > Hmmmm...don't you find it strange that Falcon grew his hair back so fast? And what happened to Bucky's skin-headed bro? And isn't Bucky's grand dad the original Bucky?
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > »
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > >>Plaidy, I feel it only fair to tell you that Aron the Evil Watcher was impersonating you on the chat board last night.
> > > Anyway, Sam has had time to grow his hair. Bucky's brother is in prison on a conspiracy rap I'm sure and WHO said Bucky is James Buchanan Barnes grand daughter. When did Buck father a child?? I never even saw him with a girl. Was he hitting on Betty Ross behind Caps back. That little ingrateful....Batroc
> > I just hope the green blood and the Falcon's miraculous recovery are wiped out when HR ends. I really liked what Lee did with both his HR titles but most changes that Rob made simply need to go away. I really just want to forget about them.
> > An amnesiatic Patriot.

>
> I just went on the assumption that her last name was Barnes and that her dad was supposedly a veteran I think that he was Bucky! Aron,huh? Isn't he the vessel for THE ONE? Did you notice that in the Heroes Return ad Cap got his eagle erased and an "A" was put in its place? It was Liefield's drawing of the Avengers and it's not new! I remember the original had the eagle!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

I'm afraid that I may be just too set in my ways to appreciate a villianous Nick Fury. When I was growing up, my favourite 3 Marvel titles were The Avengers, Strange Tales and Tales of Suspense. My 5 all time Marvel heroes were featured in those 3 mags. Youthful memories are quite difficult to dislodge when trying to appreciate a writers new vision of childhood favourites.

Host = col-as4s16.erols.com (207.172.128.207)

Posted by Roscoe on July 11, 1997 at 18:04:48 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America #10 (spoilers) (1187), posted by Nightman on July 11, 1997 at 16:45:24 PDT

>
> > >
> > > > > > >> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
> > > > > > >>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
> > > > > > >>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
> > > > > > Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
> > > > > > >>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
> > > > > > The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper
> > > > > Hmmmm...don't you find it strange that Falcon grew his hair back so fast? And what happened to Bucky's skin-headed bro? And isn't Bucky's grand dad the original Bucky?
> > > > > Cya
> > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > »
> > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > >>Plaidy, I feel it only fair to tell you that Aron the Evil Watcher was impersonating you on the chat board last night.
> > > > Anyway, Sam has had time to grow his hair. Bucky's brother is in prison on a conspiracy rap I'm sure and WHO said Bucky is James Buchanan Barnes grand daughter. When did Buck father a child?? I never even saw him with a girl. Was he hitting on Betty Ross behind Caps back. That little ingrateful....Batroc
> > > I just hope the green blood and the Falcon's miraculous recovery are wiped out when HR ends. I really liked what Lee did with both his HR titles but most changes that Rob made simply need to go away. I really just want to forget about them.
> > > An amnesiatic Patriot.

> >
> > I just went on the assumption that her last name was Barnes and that her dad was supposedly a veteran I think that he was Bucky! Aron,huh? Isn't he the vessel for THE ONE? Did you notice that in the Heroes Return ad Cap got his eagle erased and an "A" was put in its place? It was Liefield's drawing of the Avengers and it's not new! I remember the original had the eagle!

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

>
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> I'm afraid that I may be just too set in my ways to appreciate a villianous Nick Fury. When I was growing up, my favourite 3 Marvel titles were The Avengers, Strange Tales and Tales of Suspense. My 5 all time Marvel heroes were featured in those 3 mags. Youthful memories are quite difficult to dislodge when trying to appreciate a writers new vision of childhood favourites.

I have been hearing alot (not just here, but in other places) about the supposed change to Nick Fury, and frankly it perplexes me. This sort of dramatic set up has occured a hundred times before, and almost never ends with what is shown being reality. I see no reason to think that this is actually Nick Fury (one reason: he's not, he's a Frankiling Richards contruct). My personal theory is that this is actually Jake Fury. He's restructured his LMD body to look just like Nick (as they did with the LMD Sagitarius when they made him into a Hawkeye clone).

Anyhow, I don't see any reason to think Nick has turned evil.
-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma3-17.ix.netcom.com (206.217.145.81)

Posted by tank on July 11, 1997 at 20:24:29 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America #10 (spoilers) (1188), posted by Roscoe on July 11, 1997 at 18:04:48 PDT

> >
> > > >
> > > > > > > >> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
> > > > > > > >>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
> > > > > > > >>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
> > > > > > > Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
> > > > > > > >>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
> > > > > > > The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper
> > > > > > Hmmmm...don't you find it strange that Falcon grew his hair back so fast? And what happened to Bucky's skin-headed bro? And isn't Bucky's grand dad the original Bucky?
> > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > > »
> > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > > >>Plaidy, I feel it only fair to tell you that Aron the Evil Watcher was impersonating you on the chat board last night.
> > > > > Anyway, Sam has had time to grow his hair. Bucky's brother is in prison on a conspiracy rap I'm sure and WHO said Bucky is James Buchanan Barnes grand daughter. When did Buck father a child?? I never even saw him with a girl. Was he hitting on Betty Ross behind Caps back. That little ingrateful....Batroc
> > > > I just hope the green blood and the Falcon's miraculous recovery are wiped out when HR ends. I really liked what Lee did with both his HR titles but most changes that Rob made simply need to go away. I really just want to forget about them.
> > > > An amnesiatic Patriot.

> > >
> > > I just went on the assumption that her last name was Barnes and that her dad was supposedly a veteran I think that he was Bucky! Aron,huh? Isn't he the vessel for THE ONE? Did you notice that in the Heroes Return ad Cap got his eagle erased and an "A" was put in its place? It was Liefield's drawing of the Avengers and it's not new! I remember the original had the eagle!

> >
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > I'm afraid that I may be just too set in my ways to appreciate a villianous Nick Fury. When I was growing up, my favourite 3 Marvel titles were The Avengers, Strange Tales and Tales of Suspense. My 5 all time Marvel heroes were featured in those 3 mags. Youthful memories are quite difficult to dislodge when trying to appreciate a writers new vision of childhood favourites.

> I have been hearing alot (not just here, but in other places) about the supposed change to Nick Fury, and frankly it perplexes me. This sort of dramatic set up has occured a hundred times before, and almost never ends with what is shown being reality. I see no reason to think that this is actually Nick Fury (one reason: he's not, he's a Frankiling Richards contruct). My personal theory is that this is actually Jake Fury. He's restructured his LMD body to look just like Nick (as they did with the LMD Sagitarius when they made him into a Hawkeye clone).

>
> Anyhow, I don't see any reason to think Nick has turned evil.
> -Roscoe

I think Nick is behind that mysterious door on the Helicarrier that Bucky was hanging around and was guarded by a couple of heavily armed guys.

Host = ww1-198.cybernex.net (204.141.118.198)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 11, 1997 at 21:52:32 PDT

Attention! Cap is gonna start out at #1! I repeat #1!!! It is not going back to it's old numbering! And I say that sucks!!!!! Thank god Spider-Man didn't go to the HR Universe!! Don't beleive me? Check out Mania's interview with Kurt and he'll say that it will start at number 1!! Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-17.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.81)

Posted by Patriot on July 11, 1997 at 22:00:41 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1186), posted by Roscoe on July 11, 1997 at 15:34:16 PDT

> > > >
> > > > > > I was just thinkin about all the wacky things that have happened to
> > > > > > Cap in the last couple of years, without him even having a break
> > > > > > to sit down and settle things out.

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Finds that the Super-Soldier Serum is deteriorating and he will
> > > > > > die if he doesn't reitre.
> > > > > > 2. Pseudo-Girlfriend leaves him to become operative of Superia
> > > > > > 3. Nearly dies from heart attack
> > > > > > 4. Wears Robo-Cap uniform to fight again.
> > > > > > 5. Heart gives out and he "dies".
> > > > > > 6. Revived by the Red Skull.
> > > > > > 7. Finds that Sharon Carter is still alive.
> > > > > > 8. Is striped of citizenship and deported.
> > > > > > 9. "Dies" again at the hands of Onslaught.
> > > > > > 10. Is drawn by Rob Liefield.
> > > > > > 11. Apparently is coming back to the "real" universe.

> > >
> > > > > > I hope Waid at least gives him a chance to rest when he comes back.
> > > > > > Cap's been through an awful lot.

> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The Rob Liefeld ordeal had to be the worst!. But seriously, what happened to the Robo-Cap suit? Was the Super-Serum re-injected or something?

> > >
> > > > > Falcon

> > >
> > > > Red Skull (who was now in a cloned body of Steve Rogers) used his own blood to do a transfusion and purify Cap's super soldier formula. What I find strange is that no one ever explained WHY the ss formula deteriorated in the first place. I hated this storyline more than Cap Wolf. I'd like to think the Streets Of Poison drug overdose had something to do with it. The influx of drugs, the full body transfusion combined with the formula replicating in his blood might have altered the original matrix.
> > > > I assume the Cap armor was kept by the Red Skull's goons.

> > >
> > > > At least Jeff Mace only got cancer and died.

> > >
> > > > Patriot.

> > > Thanks Patriot, but that brings up the question of why the Red Skull saved Cap's life.

> > > Falcon

> > I think the Red Skull needed Cap's help to defeat an Ultra-Powerful
> > enemy that was trying to remove Hitler from the Cosmic Cube...
> > I know it sounds ridiculous.. but I think that's it...

> > Tuc

> The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> -Roscoe

I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

Patriot.

Host = fastppp547.idirect.com (207.136.99.39)

Posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1191), posted by Patriot on July 11, 1997 at 22:00:41 PDT

>
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I was just thinkin about all the wacky things that have happened to
> > > > > > > Cap in the last couple of years, without him even having a break
> > > > > > > to sit down and settle things out.

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Finds that the Super-Soldier Serum is deteriorating and he will
> > > > > > > die if he doesn't reitre.
> > > > > > > 2. Pseudo-Girlfriend leaves him to become operative of Superia
> > > > > > > 3. Nearly dies from heart attack
> > > > > > > 4. Wears Robo-Cap uniform to fight again.
> > > > > > > 5. Heart gives out and he "dies".
> > > > > > > 6. Revived by the Red Skull.
> > > > > > > 7. Finds that Sharon Carter is still alive.
> > > > > > > 8. Is striped of citizenship and deported.
> > > > > > > 9. "Dies" again at the hands of Onslaught.
> > > > > > > 10. Is drawn by Rob Liefield.
> > > > > > > 11. Apparently is coming back to the "real" universe.

> > > >
> > > > > > > I hope Waid at least gives him a chance to rest when he comes back.
> > > > > > > Cap's been through an awful lot.

> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Rob Liefeld ordeal had to be the worst!. But seriously, what happened to the Robo-Cap suit? Was the Super-Serum re-injected or something?

> > > >
> > > > > > Falcon

> > > >
> > > > > Red Skull (who was now in a cloned body of Steve Rogers) used his own blood to do a transfusion and purify Cap's super soldier formula. What I find strange is that no one ever explained WHY the ss formula deteriorated in the first place. I hated this storyline more than Cap Wolf. I'd like to think the Streets Of Poison drug overdose had something to do with it. The influx of drugs, the full body transfusion combined with the formula replicating in his blood might have altered the original matrix.
> > > > > I assume the Cap armor was kept by the Red Skull's goons.

> > > >
> > > > > At least Jeff Mace only got cancer and died.

> > > >
> > > > > Patriot.

> > > > Thanks Patriot, but that brings up the question of why the Red Skull saved Cap's life.

> > > > Falcon

> > > I think the Red Skull needed Cap's help to defeat an Ultra-Powerful
> > > enemy that was trying to remove Hitler from the Cosmic Cube...
> > > I know it sounds ridiculous.. but I think that's it...

> > > Tuc

> > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > -Roscoe

> I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> Patriot.

I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

Just my thoughts.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma3-17.ix.netcom.com (206.217.145.81)

Posted by Batroc on July 12, 1997 at 08:37:58 PDT
in reply to Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!! (1190), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 11, 1997 at 21:52:32 PDT

> Attention! Cap is gonna start out at #1! I repeat #1!!! It is not going back to it's old numbering! And I say that sucks!!!!! Thank god Spider-Man didn't go to the HR Universe!! Don't beleive me? Check out Mania's interview with Kurt and he'll say that it will start at number 1!! Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>>Go ahead and delete this if you have too Medinnus, but that sucks bigtime. 30+ years of continuity shot to heck. It's just not right!!! I don't like it etc. etc. etc.!!!!!!!!! Batroc the leaping mad Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:09:30 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1192), posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT

> > > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > > -Roscoe

> > I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> > Patriot.

> I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

> Just my thoughts.

> -Roscoe

Cap was in suspended animation for a long time where neither he or the ss serum aged at all. Although Cap came out in our 1960's, that much time hasn't passed in the Marvel Universe. The MU is running on a 8-10 year time line since the FF appeared. This would effectively make Cap 34 yrs old tops. The serum has only been active 13 yrs. I was not saying that Cap's serum is a fountain of youth (although Fury's infinity formula was and it's a basterdized try at the ss formula and had no signs of breaking down.) I'm saying that in the end, Erksine's formula was no better than the other tries during the War as his formula would inevitably kill its recipiant.
This would mean the true successes at the ss serum was the serum given to Brian Falsworth (Union Jack II) as his serum allowed him to lead a healthy life until he died in a car crash. Warrior Woman and Master Man's serum also seem to be better attempts then Erskine's as they are still active and have greater strength (although not the skill and dex) than Cap. This is what I meant by Erksine's formula being a failure. When this plot point was created, they didn't think about other varient successful attempts to create Cap's serum. They now look better than the original.
I do respect your oppinion but I just wanted to clarify mine.

Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:10:31 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1192), posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT

> > > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > > -Roscoe

> > I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> > Patriot.

> I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

> Just my thoughts.

> -Roscoe

Cap was in suspended animation for a long time where neither he or the ss serum aged at all. Although Cap came out in our 1960's, that much time hasn't passed in the Marvel Universe. The MU is running on a 8-10 year time line since the FF appeared. This would effectively make Cap 34 yrs old tops. The serum has only been active 13 yrs. I was not saying that Cap's serum is a fountain of youth (although Fury's infinity formula was and it's a basterdized try at the ss formula and had no signs of breaking down.) I'm saying that in the end, Erksine's formula was no better than the other tries during the War as his formula would inevitably kill its recipiant.
This would mean the true successes at the ss serum was the serum given to Brian Falsworth (Union Jack II) as his serum allowed him to lead a healthy life until he died in a car crash. Warrior Woman and Master Man's serum also seem to be better attempts then Erskine's as they are still active and have greater strength (although not the skill and dex) than Cap. This is what I meant by Erksine's formula being a failure. When this plot point was created, they didn't think about other varient successful attempts to create Cap's serum. They now look better than the original.
I do respect your oppinion but I just wanted to clarify mine.

Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:11:44 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1192), posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT

> > > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > > -Roscoe

> > I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> > Patriot.

> I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

> Just my thoughts.

> -Roscoe

Cap was in suspended animation for a long time where neither he or the ss serum aged at all. Although Cap came out in our 1960's, that much time hasn't passed in the Marvel Universe. The MU is running on a 8-10 year time line since the FF appeared. This would effectively make Cap 34 yrs old tops. The serum has only been active 13 yrs. I was not saying that Cap's serum is a fountain of youth (although Fury's infinity formula was and it's a basterdized try at the ss formula and had no signs of breaking down.) I'm saying that in the end, Erksine's formula was no better than the other tries during the War as his formula would inevitably kill its recipiant.
This would mean the true successes at the ss serum was the serum given to Brian Falsworth (Union Jack II) as his serum allowed him to lead a healthy life until he died in a car crash. Warrior Woman and Master Man's serum also seem to be better attempts then Erskine's as they are still active and have greater strength (although not the skill and dex) than Cap. This is what I meant by Erksine's formula being a failure. When this plot point was created, they didn't think about other varient successful attempts to create Cap's serum. They now look better than the original.
I do respect your oppinion but I just wanted to clarify mine.

Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 12, 1997 at 09:11:53 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America #10 (spoilers) (1189), posted by tank on July 11, 1997 at 20:24:29 PDT

>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Just picked up Captain America #10. It may have been out a week for all I know. The cover is a rip off of Steranko (ish #113 text) but credit is given. I like the retro appreciation covers and I enjoyed the earlier tributes to Jack Kirby's covers.
> > > > > > > > >>I kind of enjoyed the issue. I always like it when Cap visits the Linclon Memorial. Nick Fury is the Serpent King. What can we make of that. His character has been jaded all during HR, but the Avenger stories just prior to HR also potrayed him as a guy who follows orders from Big Brother no matter what the repurcussions. What do you think of Fury. Is he an LMD? Is he simply another HR character who doesn't fit his former style like Jasper Sitwell, the rogue Thor and others? It was a nice twist having Fury as a villian, but I knew from about page 4 that he was involved with the Serpents.
> > > > > > > > >>The Falcon and Bucky.... I still don't like how Falcon got his super strength. The Green blood...It isn't right. Something else must have triggered the changes in Sam. since we don't have a letters page anymore, I'm for saying the green blood was a coloring error. Sam must have been altered by the Cosmic Cube like he was in our "prime" universe. Maybe the SHIELD guys had slipped him some super soldier serum on the sly and it was slowly taking effect and accelerated by his wounds. I did like the Falcons new uniform. Can he fly with those wings? If he can he should have flew away from that guy that beat the hell out of him!
> > > > > > > > Bucky.....The jury is still out on her.
> > > > > > > > >>>I'm curious to see what the SERIOUS Cap fans felt about this issue.
> > > > > > > > The way of honor.....Batroc the Leaper
> > > > > > > Hmmmm...don't you find it strange that Falcon grew his hair back so fast? And what happened to Bucky's skin-headed bro? And isn't Bucky's grand dad the original Bucky?
> > > > > > > Cya
> > > > > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > > > > »
> > > > > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > > > > >>Plaidy, I feel it only fair to tell you that Aron the Evil Watcher was impersonating you on the chat board last night.
> > > > > > Anyway, Sam has had time to grow his hair. Bucky's brother is in prison on a conspiracy rap I'm sure and WHO said Bucky is James Buchanan Barnes grand daughter. When did Buck father a child?? I never even saw him with a girl. Was he hitting on Betty Ross behind Caps back. That little ingrateful....Batroc
> > > > > I just hope the green blood and the Falcon's miraculous recovery are wiped out when HR ends. I really liked what Lee did with both his HR titles but most changes that Rob made simply need to go away. I really just want to forget about them.
> > > > > An amnesiatic Patriot.

> > > >
> > > > I just went on the assumption that her last name was Barnes and that her dad was supposedly a veteran I think that he was Bucky! Aron,huh? Isn't he the vessel for THE ONE? Did you notice that in the Heroes Return ad Cap got his eagle erased and an "A" was put in its place? It was Liefield's drawing of the Avengers and it's not new! I remember the original had the eagle!

> > >
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull

> > >
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> > > I'm afraid that I may be just too set in my ways to appreciate a villianous Nick Fury. When I was growing up, my favourite 3 Marvel titles were The Avengers, Strange Tales and Tales of Suspense. My 5 all time Marvel heroes were featured in those 3 mags. Youthful memories are quite difficult to dislodge when trying to appreciate a writers new vision of childhood favourites.

> > I have been hearing alot (not just here, but in other places) about the supposed change to Nick Fury, and frankly it perplexes me. This sort of dramatic set up has occured a hundred times before, and almost never ends with what is shown being reality. I see no reason to think that this is actually Nick Fury (one reason: he's not, he's a Frankiling Richards contruct). My personal theory is that this is actually Jake Fury. He's restructured his LMD body to look just like Nick (as they did with the LMD Sagitarius when they made him into a Hawkeye clone).

> >
> > Anyhow, I don't see any reason to think Nick has turned evil.
> > -Roscoe

> I think Nick is behind that mysterious door on the Helicarrier that Bucky was hanging around and was guarded by a couple of heavily armed guys.

Gee, and here i was looking forward to Billy Clinton being the Serpent King and blowing his brains out.

Host = 207.58.96.97 (207.58.96.97)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:11:56 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1192), posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT

> > > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > > -Roscoe

> > I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> > Patriot.

> I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

> Just my thoughts.

> -Roscoe

Cap was in suspended animation for a long time where neither he or the ss serum aged at all. Although Cap came out in our 1960's, that much time hasn't passed in the Marvel Universe. The MU is running on a 8-10 year time line since the FF appeared. This would effectively make Cap 34 yrs old tops. The serum has only been active 13 yrs. I was not saying that Cap's serum is a fountain of youth (although Fury's infinity formula was and it's a basterdized try at the ss formula and had no signs of breaking down.) I'm saying that in the end, Erksine's formula was no better than the other tries during the War as his formula would inevitably kill its recipiant.
This would mean the true successes at the ss serum was the serum given to Brian Falsworth (Union Jack II) as his serum allowed him to lead a healthy life until he died in a car crash. Warrior Woman and Master Man's serum also seem to be better attempts then Erskine's as they are still active and have greater strength (although not the skill and dex) than Cap. This is what I meant by Erksine's formula being a failure. When this plot point was created, they didn't think about other varient successful attempts to create Cap's serum. They now look better than the original.
I do respect your oppinion but I just wanted to clarify mine.

Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:12:23 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1192), posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT

> > > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > > -Roscoe

> > I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> > Patriot.

> I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

> Just my thoughts.

> -Roscoe

Cap was in suspended animation for a long time where neither he or the ss serum aged at all. Although Cap came out in our 1960's, that much time hasn't passed in the Marvel Universe. The MU is running on a 8-10 year time line since the FF appeared. This would effectively make Cap 34 yrs old tops. The serum has only been active 13 yrs. I was not saying that Cap's serum is a fountain of youth (although Fury's infinity formula was and it's a basterdized try at the ss formula and had no signs of breaking down.) I'm saying that in the end, Erksine's formula was no better than the other tries during the War as his formula would inevitably kill its recipiant.
This would mean the true successes at the ss serum was the serum given to Brian Falsworth (Union Jack II) as his serum allowed him to lead a healthy life until he died in a car crash. Warrior Woman and Master Man's serum also seem to be better attempts then Erskine's as they are still active and have greater strength (although not the skill and dex) than Cap. This is what I meant by Erksine's formula being a failure. When this plot point was created, they didn't think about other varient successful attempts to create Cap's serum. They now look better than the original.
I do respect your oppinion but I just wanted to clarify mine.

Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:12:51 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1192), posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT

> > > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > > -Roscoe

> > I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> > Patriot.

> I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

> Just my thoughts.

> -Roscoe

Cap was in suspended animation for a long time where neither he or the ss serum aged at all. Although Cap came out in our 1960's, that much time hasn't passed in the Marvel Universe. The MU is running on a 8-10 year time line since the FF appeared. This would effectively make Cap 34 yrs old tops. The serum has only been active 13 yrs. I was not saying that Cap's serum is a fountain of youth (although Fury's infinity formula was and it's a basterdized try at the ss formula and had no signs of breaking down.) I'm saying that in the end, Erksine's formula was no better than the other tries during the War as his formula would inevitably kill its recipiant.
This would mean the true successes at the ss serum was the serum given to Brian Falsworth (Union Jack II) as his serum allowed him to lead a healthy life until he died in a car crash. Warrior Woman and Master Man's serum also seem to be better attempts then Erskine's as they are still active and have greater strength (although not the skill and dex) than Cap. This is what I meant by Erksine's formula being a failure. When this plot point was created, they didn't think about other varient successful attempts to create Cap's serum. They now look better than the original.
I do respect your oppinion but I just wanted to clarify mine.

Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:13:07 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1192), posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT

> > > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > > -Roscoe

> > I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> > Patriot.

> I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

> Just my thoughts.

> -Roscoe

Cap was in suspended animation for a long time where neither he or the ss serum aged at all. Although Cap came out in our 1960's, that much time hasn't passed in the Marvel Universe. The MU is running on a 8-10 year time line since the FF appeared. This would effectively make Cap 34 yrs old tops. The serum has only been active 13 yrs. I was not saying that Cap's serum is a fountain of youth (although Fury's infinity formula was and it's a basterdized try at the ss formula and had no signs of breaking down.) I'm saying that in the end, Erksine's formula was no better than the other tries during the War as his formula would inevitably kill its recipiant.
This would mean the true successes at the ss serum was the serum given to Brian Falsworth (Union Jack II) as his serum allowed him to lead a healthy life until he died in a car crash. Warrior Woman and Master Man's serum also seem to be better attempts then Erskine's as they are still active and have greater strength (although not the skill and dex) than Cap. This is what I meant by Erksine's formula being a failure. When this plot point was created, they didn't think about other varient successful attempts to create Cap's serum. They now look better than the original.
I do respect your oppinion but I just wanted to clarify mine.

Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:14:15 PDT
in reply to Re: Wheeew... Cap must be a little out of breath (1192), posted by Roscoe on July 12, 1997 at 01:31:44 PDT

> > > The SSSerum broke down simply due to age. The Streets of Poison episode couldn't have had any part of it, because the Red Skull was experiencing the same breakdown. However, it turns out Zola is a better scientist than the Avengers, because Zola was able to figure out a remedy.

> > > I think the Skull revived Cap not just because he needed help defeating the Nazis (which Cap was designed to do; Skull figured Cap would be alot better at it than RS himself) but also because Skull wanted to take Cap down himself through some tremendous scheme. Skull has had Cap in plenty of deadly situations before without offing him because it would have been too easy; he wants Cap defeated before he dies.

> > > -Roscoe

> > I understood the serum broke down with age but I don't like plotlines where the hero's powers begin killing or mutating him or her. I didn't like the fact that Firestar's power made her sterile, I didn't like Jay Garrick's own speed powers were killing him and I didn't like the super soldier formula was killing Cap. Dr. Erskine was supposed to have been one of the most brilliant minds ever. This plotline makes his work trivial as it would have no lasting effects.

> > Patriot.

> I'm not sure what you mean. Dr. Erskine wasn't trying to create a fountain of youth. He wasn't aiming to make the youngest man ever, he was trying to develop a Super Soldier. I don't think Erskine intended this to allow someone to live for 70 years as a 25 year old as Cap has done; this was a bonus. I think the effects Erskine wanted was something that would end the war quickly, so if the serum broke down after 6 months it would be fine as long as that 6 months of Super-Soldier activity turned the tide of the war.

> Just my thoughts.

> -Roscoe

Cap was in suspended animation for a long time where neither he or the ss serum aged at all. Although Cap came out in our 1960's, that much time hasn't passed in the Marvel Universe. The MU is running on a 8-10 year time line since the FF appeared. This would effectively make Cap 34 yrs old tops. The serum has only been active 13 yrs. I was not saying that Cap's serum is a fountain of youth (although Fury's infinity formula was and it's a basterdized try at the ss formula and had no signs of breaking down.) I'm saying that in the end, Erksine's formula was no better than the other tries during the War as his formula would inevitably kill its recipiant.
This would mean the true successes at the ss serum was the serum given to Brian Falsworth (Union Jack II) as his serum allowed him to lead a healthy life until he died in a car crash. Warrior Woman and Master Man's serum also seem to be better attempts then Erskine's as they are still active and have greater strength (although not the skill and dex) than Cap. This is what I meant by Erksine's formula being a failure. When this plot point was created, they didn't think about other varient successful attempts to create Cap's serum. They now look better than the original.
I do respect your oppinion but I just wanted to clarify mine.

Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:31:16 PDT
in reply to That DOES suck!! (1193), posted by Batroc on July 12, 1997 at 08:37:58 PDT

> > Attention! Cap is gonna start out at #1! I repeat #1!!! It is not going back to it's old numbering! And I say that sucks!!!!! Thank god Spider-Man didn't go to the HR Universe!! Don't beleive me? Check out Mania's interview with Kurt and he'll say that it will start at number 1!! Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> >>>Go ahead and delete this if you have too Medinnus, but that sucks bigtime. 30+ years of continuity shot to heck. It's just not right!!! I don't like it etc. etc. etc.!!!!!!!!! Batroc the leaping mad Leaper

Ok, I'll play devil's advocate here. Cap is my all time favorite hero but some of that 30+ years of continuity was auful. I'm talking about most of the 1990's. It sounds to me like they have a chance to "crisis" that continuity and fix a lot of the bad storylines. He will still have memories of the Marvel Universe because it was in the ad of Vision Magazine. "A world not their own. Memories not their own." I see it as Star Trek TNG's episode The Inner Light where Pickard has two sets of memories. One set is his own while the other is of a man who lived on a dying planet.
Cap will have both sets as he experienced both. Also when the heroes return, who's to say that the Marvel Universe and the Franklinverse won't merge and the writers at Marvel can keep the best writing of both Universes and throw away bad plots from BOTH universes.

A hopeful Patriot.

Host = 207.136.98.111 (207.136.98.111)

Posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:45:14 PDT

I submitted a follow up called Cap's Age to the Message board but it took FOREVER to get through. When it did submit, there were at least 6 of them on the board. I've been e-mailing Sam Kirby to delete the other ones but my message keeps getting returned as undiliverable. Could someone e-mail him on my behalf?

An embarrassed Patriot.

Host = fastppp365.idirect.com (207.136.98.111)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 12, 1997 at 10:22:06 PDT
in reply to Another oppinion (1203), posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:31:16 PDT

>
> > > Attention! Cap is gonna start out at #1! I repeat #1!!! It is not going back to it's old numbering! And I say that sucks!!!!! Thank god Spider-Man didn't go to the HR Universe!! Don't beleive me? Check out Mania's interview with Kurt and he'll say that it will start at number 1!! Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull
> > »
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > >>>Go ahead and delete this if you have too Medinnus, but that sucks bigtime. 30+ years of continuity shot to heck. It's just not right!!! I don't like it etc. etc. etc.!!!!!!!!! Batroc the leaping mad Leaper

> Ok, I'll play devil's advocate here. Cap is my all time favorite hero but some of that 30+ years of continuity was auful. I'm talking about most of the 1990's. It sounds to me like they have a chance to "crisis" that continuity and fix a lot of the bad storylines. He will still have memories of the Marvel Universe because it was in the ad of Vision Magazine. "A world not their own. Memories not their own." I see it as Star Trek TNG's episode The Inner Light where Pickard has two sets of memories. One set is his own while the other is of a man who lived on a dying planet.
> Cap will have both sets as he experienced both. Also when the heroes return, who's to say that the Marvel Universe and the Franklinverse won't merge and the writers at Marvel can keep the best writing of both Universes and throw away bad plots from BOTH universes.

> A hopeful Patriot.

But it is pretty bad ain't it? I mean finally Cap reaches the 400's and then BAM right back to 1 again!! We probably won't live to see him go back to the 400's again!! Sure it has the same stories and the same character and so forth but still...it's....it's just not right!! Call me old fashioned! Call me a fuddy duddy! Call me a moron but I don't like this! It leaves a bad taste in my mouth...whoops I forgot to brush my teeth! So that's the source! Oh, BTW you delete this you DIE!!!! For whenever there is injustice, tyranny, etc...the You Know Who was there!!!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Host = bak-ca1-14.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.46)

Posted by Rob on July 12, 1997 at 11:33:43 PDT
in reply to Re: Another oppinion (1205), posted by The Plaid Skull on July 12, 1997 at 10:22:06 PDT

I have mixed feelings about the re-numbering. On one hand, it would make sense for it to be #455 (instead of #1) because Waid & Garney will be returning to the book....They can pick up where they left off. Keeping the old numbers can be seen as a return to greatness. And it would be an incentive for older fans like myself to buy those issues, so we can "complete our collection." Whereas if they re-number it, we can say we have the complete run of the old series and not bother with that new series of Cap. We can savor Volume One and ignore Volumes Two and Three.

On the other hand, the numbering didn't make much sense to begin with. With Cap's old numbering, he didn't even appear in #1-57. And he only appeared in half of the pages in #58-99. Starting over from #1, while a cheap marketing gimmick to excite speculators (boy, Marvel must think we're really stupid), might also attract younger fans who would like to be able to have their own "Cap collection" starting from #1.

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Nightman on July 12, 1997 at 11:37:17 PDT
in reply to Re: Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1182), posted by Falcon on July 11, 1997 at 06:25:39 PDT

> > -Sorry, but Hasselhoff looks like a lightweight. We need a tough Fury! Hasselhoff's too "pretty". A young Eastwood would have been perfect! How about Steven Seagall? At any rate, instinct tells me this will be yet another crappy Marvel film.
> > If Generation X flopped, this one ain't gonna fare any better. I hate being a comics fan sometimes. These movies depress me. I'd like to know how much control Stan has had over these lousy films. Afetr all, wasn't that his job these last couple of decades? If these were my creations, I'd be like a Todd McFarlane with them, very protective, and not so eager to jump into bed with the first film company that came along!

>
> I almost retch at the thought of Hasselhoff as Fury; what a joke. The best actor I can think of to fill the part would be Bruce Willis. I think that would work, but nooo, they had to make a cheesy flick with a guy who stars on crappy but inexplicably popular TV shows and makes inexplicably popular music (though thank goodness, not in the USA).

> Falcon

Yes, Bruce Willis would be a better choice for Nuck Fury than David Hasselhoff. Just way too pricey for what they'd want to pay. How about Jerry Doyle, Babylons 5's Michael Garibaldi in the role?
I've never understood the failure if Marvel's properties in the live action arena. Their track record is abysmal. Of all of them to come out over the past two decades, only The Incredible Hulk has done respectfully with the audience. That is due in great part to Kenneth Johnson.
I will watch the Nick Fury movie when it is broadcast on Fox. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprise.
Nightman

Host = col-as9s20.erols.com (207.172.130.20)

Posted by Falcon on July 12, 1997 at 12:53:18 PDT
in reply to Opinion on re-numbering (1206), posted by Rob on July 12, 1997 at 11:33:43 PDT

>
> I have mixed feelings about the re-numbering. On one hand, it would make sense for it to be #455 (instead of #1) because Waid & Garney will be returning to the book....They can pick up where they left off. Keeping the old numbers can be seen as a return to greatness. And it would be an incentive for older fans like myself to buy those issues, so we can "complete our collection." Whereas if they re-number it, we can say we have the complete run of the old series and not bother with that new series of Cap. We can savor Volume One and ignore Volumes Two and Three.

> On the other hand, the numbering didn't make much sense to begin with. With Cap's old numbering, he didn't even appear in #1-57. And he only appeared in half of the pages in #58-99. Starting over from #1, while a cheap marketing gimmick to excite speculators (boy, Marvel must think we're really stupid), might also attract younger fans who would like to be able to have their own "Cap collection" starting from #1.

> Rob

You've got a point there. It's the same with Thor. He didn't appear in JIM at all until 83 but the numbering carried over anyway. Is it the same with Iron Man? Besides, at least a year has passed since the titles were put on hold; it just might make more economic sense to start at 1. And don't forget Submariner and Silver Surfer restarted at 1. It's the lesser of two evils, I think (the greater evil being the book cancelled).

Falcon

Host = 138.new-york-008.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.39.138)

Posted by Falcon on July 12, 1997 at 13:03:04 PDT
in reply to Re: Colonel Nicholas "Hasseloff" Fury (1207), posted by Nightman on July 12, 1997 at 11:37:17 PDT

> > > If Generation X flopped, this one ain't gonna fare any better. I hate being a comics fan sometimes. These movies depress me. I'd like to know how much control Stan has had over these lousy films. Afetr all, wasn't that his job these last couple of decades? If these were my creations, I'd be like a Todd McFarlane with them, very protective, and not so eager to jump into bed with the first film company that came along!

> >
> > I almost retch at the thought of Hasselhoff as Fury; what a joke. The best actor I can think of to fill the part would be Bruce Willis. I think that would work, but nooo, they had to make a cheesy flick with a guy who stars on crappy but inexplicably popular TV shows and makes inexplicably popular music (though thank goodness, not in the USA).

> > Falcon

> Yes, Bruce Willis would be a better choice for Nuck Fury than David Hasselhoff. Just way too pricey for what they'd want to pay. How about Jerry Doyle, Babylons 5's Michael Garibaldi in the role?
> I've never understood the failure if Marvel's properties in the live action arena. Their track record is abysmal. Of all of them to come out over the past two decades, only The Incredible Hulk has done respectfully with the audience. That is due in great part to Kenneth Johnson.
> I will watch the Nick Fury movie when it is broadcast on Fox. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprise.
> Nightman

That's not necessarily true about Bruce Willis. He did do Pulp Fiction, which couldn't have paid him all that much (I heard John Travolta got 100G) and I don't think 5th Element gave him more than a few million. I'm sure if they pitched it right (and had a good script) he'd go for it. I'm not familiar with Jerry Doyle, but just about anyone's better than Hasselhoff. Another better choice, I think, could be Lance Henriksen from Millenium. He's old (which Fury is supposed to be) but still somewhat spry.

Falcon

Host = 138.new-york-008.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.39.138)

Posted by Batroc on July 12, 1997 at 21:26:47 PDT
in reply to Re: Opinion on re-numbering (1208), posted by Falcon on July 12, 1997 at 12:53:18 PDT

»
> »
> > I have mixed feelings about the re-numbering. On one hand, it would make sense for it to be #455 (instead of #1) because Waid & Garney will be returning to the book....They can pick up where they left off. Keeping the old numbers can be seen as a return to greatness. And it would be an incentive for older fans like myself to buy those issues, so we can "complete our collection." Whereas if they re-number it, we can say we have the complete run of the old series and not bother with that new series of Cap. We can savor Volume One and ignore Volumes Two and Three.
> > On the other hand, the numbering didn't make much sense to begin with. With Cap's old numbering, he didn't even appear in #1-57. And he only appeared in half of the pages in #58-99. Starting over from #1, while a cheap marketing gimmick to excite speculators (boy, Marvel must think we're really stupid), might also attract younger fans who would like to be able to have their own "Cap collection" starting from #1.
> > Rob
»
> You've got a point there. It's the same with Thor. He didn't appear in JIM at all until 83 but the numbering carried over anyway. Is it the same with Iron Man? Besides, at least a year has passed since the titles were put on hold; it just might make more economic sense to start at 1. And don't forget Submariner and Silver Surfer restarted at 1. It's the lesser of two evils, I think (the greater evil being the book cancelled).
> Falcon
>>> Tales of Suspense started in 1959. This was the name of the series before Cap took over at ish #100. Yes, there were some good stories and some bad, but Cap deserves to go back to his long standing title and numbering. It is an econmoic decision. Marvel can sell more Captain America #1's than they can #455's.
and by the way Cap wasn't cancelled, just put on hiatus for this HR crap. It was all a mistake. There was a good creative team before HR and some of the Liefield stuff has alienated several of the old readers.
THE SERIES NEEDS TO GO BACK TO #455!! That is one step in getting every thing back as it should be. It is the way of honor, it is the way of Batroc the Leaper!

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on July 12, 1997 at 21:41:51 PDT

>>>I just read the Waid/Garney interview in Wizard. I think this interview should be added to the Star Spangled Site but that decision is deferred to the All-Mighty Dave Medinnus.
I really enjoyed the interview. They didn't bash HR or Liefield and made light of getting "fired" from Cap. As most of you know, Sharon Carter will be back with her sassy attitude but the big news is that hints were dropped that my namesake BATROC THE LEAPER will return. It will be nice to Waid's take on Georges. Batroc has been everything from a heartless mercenary to catburglar with a conciencse. You gotta wonder where he is going next. We haven't seen him since he had a sit down heart to heart with Cap during "Fighting Chance".
Waid and Garney did hint that they were going to shave that waxed down moustahce off. Anyway I'm excited that the master of savate is returning. Sacre Bleu!! Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by TJ Burns on July 13, 1997 at 05:24:49 PDT

I thought I'd share this little anecdote kurt posted on the AML. When Marvel was deciding how to number the issues and #1 was suggested Mark suggested they number them "Hey Liefield fans, Please keep buying the books, PLEASE!" Kurt said it was decided that that was too big to fit in the little corner box.

TJB

Host = 206.28.33.120 (206.28.33.120)

Posted by Tony Stark on July 13, 1997 at 07:26:44 PDT
in reply to Renumbering and Mark Waid. (1212), posted by TJ Burns on July 13, 1997 at 05:24:49 PDT

> I thought I'd share this little anecdote kurt posted on the AML. When Marvel was deciding how to number the issues and #1 was suggested Mark suggested they number them "Hey Liefield fans, Please keep buying the books, PLEASE!" Kurt said it was decided that that was too big to fit in the little corner box.

> TJB

I thought Marvel was going to number the title #1, but also put the old numbering on variant covers. They'll do this a couple months, and let fans decide which they like better. I could be wrong however.

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on July 13, 1997 at 07:29:08 PDT

....be #6700!!! Do I get a prize or something?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Posted by Sledge on July 13, 1997 at 19:26:22 PDT
in reply to Re: Renumbering and Mark Waid. (1213), posted by Tony Stark on July 13, 1997 at 07:26:44 PDT

>
> > I thought I'd share this little anecdote kurt posted on the AML. When Marvel was deciding how to number the issues and #1 was suggested Mark suggested they number them "Hey Liefield fans, Please keep buying the books, PLEASE!" Kurt said it was decided that that was too big to fit in the little corner box.

> > TJB

> I thought Marvel was going to number the title #1, but also put the old numbering on variant covers. They'll do this a couple months, and let fans decide which they like better. I could be wrong however.

The new HEROES RETURN ad that's running in some of the books have all the titles listed as #1's. I haven't heard anything lately about the variant old numbering so I think the #1's are a done deal. Bummer, huh?

Sledge

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Posted by Batroc on July 13, 1997 at 20:33:49 PDT

>> It is definitely a mistake on Marvel's part to cast Nick as a villian. Now some of you are going to say it is only HR but really who knows. Roscoe's earlier posts mentioned the history of Fury. I have always enjoyed his character even though I did not read the Shield Books, Howling Commandos, or his various miniseries.
Nick is an old soldier like Cap and don't like the way Marvel has let the suits push him around into being a nuisance to the Avengers and as a black ops enforcer in HR. I didn't neccesarily like the James Bond aspect of his character in the 1960's but I guess that was another time and another place.
Let Nick go back to being a honorable war horse fighting the good fight. That is my vote. Batroc the Leaper!

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Falcon on July 14, 1997 at 06:43:34 PDT
in reply to Re: Opinion on re-numbering (1210), posted by Batroc on July 12, 1997 at 21:26:47 PDT

> »
> > »
> > > I have mixed feelings about the re-numbering. On one hand, it would make sense for it to be #455 (instead of #1) because Waid & Garney will be returning to the book....They can pick up where they left off. Keeping the old numbers can be seen as a return to greatness. And it would be an incentive for older fans like myself to buy those issues, so we can "complete our collection." Whereas if they re-number it, we can say we have the complete run of the old series and not bother with that new series of Cap. We can savor Volume One and ignore Volumes Two and Three.
> > > On the other hand, the numbering didn't make much sense to begin with. With Cap's old numbering, he didn't even appear in #1-57. And he only appeared in half of the pages in #58-99. Starting over from #1, while a cheap marketing gimmick to excite speculators (boy, Marvel must think we're really stupid), might also attract younger fans who would like to be able to have their own "Cap collection" starting from #1.
> > > Rob
> »
> > You've got a point there. It's the same with Thor. He didn't appear in JIM at all until 83 but the numbering carried over anyway. Is it the same with Iron Man? Besides, at least a year has passed since the titles were put on hold; it just might make more economic sense to start at 1. And don't forget Submariner and Silver Surfer restarted at 1. It's the lesser of two evils, I think (the greater evil being the book cancelled).
> > Falcon
> >>> Tales of Suspense started in 1959. This was the name of the series before Cap took over at ish #100. Yes, there were some good stories and some bad, but Cap deserves to go back to his long standing title and numbering. It is an econmoic decision. Marvel can sell more Captain America #1's than they can #455's.
> and by the way Cap wasn't cancelled, just put on hiatus for this HR crap. It was all a mistake. There was a good creative team before HR and some of the Liefield stuff has alienated several of the old readers.
> THE SERIES NEEDS TO GO BACK TO #455!! That is one step in getting every thing back as it should be. It is the way of honor, it is the way of Batroc the Leaper!

Oh, I know it wasn't cancelled. I'm just saying starting again at #1 is better than the book actually being cancelled (which would have been a possibility if the sales weren't good enough). Also, it can't be denied that beginning a new volume of Cap will generate interest in it. Resuming at 455 might just cater to the die-hard Cap crowd, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't hurt to pull in new readers. You're right; it's more an economic decision than anything else, but what else is Marvel Comics if it isn't a business?

Falcon

Falcon

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Posted by Patriot on July 14, 1997 at 07:17:47 PDT
in reply to Evil Nick Fury (1216), posted by Batroc on July 13, 1997 at 20:33:49 PDT

> >> It is definitely a mistake on Marvel's part to cast Nick as a villian. Now some of you are going to say it is only HR but really who knows. Roscoe's earlier posts mentioned the history of Fury. I have always enjoyed his character even though I did not read the Shield Books, Howling Commandos, or his various miniseries.
> Nick is an old soldier like Cap and don't like the way Marvel has let the suits push him around into being a nuisance to the Avengers and as a black ops enforcer in HR. I didn't neccesarily like the James Bond aspect of his character in the 1960's but I guess that was another time and another place.
> Let Nick go back to being a honorable war horse fighting the good fight. That is my vote. Batroc the Leaper!

I'm hoping he isn't the real Nick or he's being mind controlled. I think Marvel needs to take steps to make him more marketable so more people would want to buy his comic.

Patriot.

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Posted by Patriot on July 14, 1997 at 07:47:11 PDT
in reply to The Return of the Leaper!!! (1211), posted by Batroc on July 12, 1997 at 21:41:51 PDT

> >>>I just read the Waid/Garney interview in Wizard. I think this interview should be added to the Star Spangled Site but that decision is deferred to the All-Mighty Dave Medinnus.
> I really enjoyed the interview. They didn't bash HR or Liefield and made light of getting "fired" from Cap. As most of you know, Sharon Carter will be back with her sassy attitude but the big news is that hints were dropped that my namesake BATROC THE LEAPER will return. It will be nice to Waid's take on Georges. Batroc has been everything from a heartless mercenary to catburglar with a conciencse. You gotta wonder where he is going next. We haven't seen him since he had a sit down heart to heart with Cap during "Fighting Chance".
> Waid and Garney did hint that they were going to shave that waxed down moustahce off. Anyway I'm excited that the master of savate is returning. Sacre Bleu!! Batroc

I hope you get a better costume with that shave. But hey, who am I to talk. At least you don't have a big ol' fin on your head.

Patriot.

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Posted by Steven O'Connell on July 14, 1997 at 10:24:43 PDT

There was Red Raven, Thin Man, Blue Diamond, Patriot, Jack Frost...
aka Blizzard.

Does anyone know about this team and/or the individual members?
And, am I leaving anyone out?

Can you also tell me what books they appeared in other than
Marvel Premiere #29 & 30, Invaders #6, Marvel two-in-one Annual #1?

Thanks,

SteveO

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Posted by Patriot on July 14, 1997 at 10:50:01 PDT
in reply to Liberty Legion (1220), posted by Steven O'Connell on July 14, 1997 at 10:24:43 PDT

> There was Red Raven, Thin Man, Blue Diamond, Patriot, Jack Frost...
> aka Blizzard.

> Does anyone know about this team and/or the individual members?
> And, am I leaving anyone out?

> Can you also tell me what books they appeared in other than
> Marvel Premiere #29 & 30, Invaders #6, Marvel two-in-one Annual #1?

> Thanks,

> SteveO

You are leaving out The Whizzer and Miss America. The Spirit of 76 went on a couple of missions with them but was never a full fledged member. My collection is not with me right now but if no one else answers you in the next few hours, I will tell you more about them. I can say that the members of this team met a bad end.
Blue Diamond turned into a real living diamond and left for space.
Thin Man brutally hunts down war criminals and is an embittered old man.
Jack Frost is in the belly of an Asgardian Ice Serpent. In order to keep it dormant, he must keep it and himself in suspended animation or it could devistate most of the Innuit villages in the surrounding area.
Red Raven went insane and was killed.
Miss America died during child birth due to an earlier exposure to radiation from Isbisa: a radioactive 50's villain.
Robert Frank suffered a fatal heart attack protecting his son from Isbisa forty years later.
Patirot died of cancer. He had Captain America at his bedside.

Suddenly, being a member of The Invaders is far preferable.
I'll try to tell you more later.

Patriot (still alive and kicking)

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Posted by Batroc on July 14, 1997 at 11:09:43 PDT
in reply to Re: Liberty Legion (1221), posted by Patriot on July 14, 1997 at 10:50:01 PDT

»
> > There was Red Raven, Thin Man, Blue Diamond, Patriot, Jack Frost...
> > aka Blizzard.
> > Does anyone know about this team and/or the individual members?
> > And, am I leaving anyone out?
> > Can you also tell me what books they appeared in other than
> > Marvel Premiere #29 & 30, Invaders #6, Marvel two-in-one Annual #1?
> > Thanks,
> > SteveO
> You are leaving out The Whizzer and Miss America. The Spirit of 76 went on a couple of missions with them but was never a full fledged member. My collection is not with me right now but if no one else answers you in the next few hours, I will tell you more about them. I can say that the members of this team met a bad end.
> Blue Diamond turned into a real living diamond and left for space.
> Thin Man brutally hunts down war criminals and is an embittered old man.
> Jack Frost is in the belly of an Asgardian Ice Serpent. In order to keep it dormant, he must keep it and himself in suspended animation or it could devistate most of the Innuit villages in the surrounding area.
> Red Raven went insane and was killed.
> Miss America died during child birth due to an earlier exposure to radiation from Isbisa: a radioactive 50's villain.
> Robert Frank suffered a fatal heart attack protecting his son from Isbisa forty years later.
> Patirot died of cancer. He had Captain America at his bedside.
> Suddenly, being a member of The Invaders is far preferable.
> I'll try to tell you more later. Patriot
»>>When did Bob Frank die? In the Vision and Scarlet Witch mini series? How did he confuse Wanda and Pietro as his own children when they were actually Magnetos? Didn't Cap help free Jack Frost from the Ice Serpent in Captain America 383 (or something like that)? Who invented liquid soap and why? An always puzzled Batroc the Leaper (I don't need a new costume just a shave!)

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Posted by Patriot on July 14, 1997 at 12:01:31 PDT
in reply to Re: Questions>> (1222), posted by Batroc on July 14, 1997 at 11:09:43 PDT

> »
> > > There was Red Raven, Thin Man, Blue Diamond, Patriot, Jack Frost...
> > > aka Blizzard.
> > > Does anyone know about this team and/or the individual members?
> > > And, am I leaving anyone out?
> > > Can you also tell me what books they appeared in other than
> > > Marvel Premiere #29 & 30, Invaders #6, Marvel two-in-one Annual #1?
> > > Thanks,
> > > SteveO
> > You are leaving out The Whizzer and Miss America. The Spirit of 76 went on a couple of missions with them but was never a full fledged member. My collection is not with me right now but if no one else answers you in the next few hours, I will tell you more about them. I can say that the members of this team met a bad end.
> > Blue Diamond turned into a real living diamond and left for space.
> > Thin Man brutally hunts down war criminals and is an embittered old man.
> > Jack Frost is in the belly of an Asgardian Ice Serpent. In order to keep it dormant, he must keep it and himself in suspended animation or it could devistate most of the Innuit villages in the surrounding area.
> > Red Raven went insane and was killed.
> > Miss America died during child birth due to an earlier exposure to radiation from Isbisa: a radioactive 50's villain.
> > Robert Frank suffered a fatal heart attack protecting his son from Isbisa forty years later.
> > Patirot died of cancer. He had Captain America at his bedside.
> > Suddenly, being a member of The Invaders is far preferable.
> > I'll try to tell you more later. Patriot
> »>>When did Bob Frank die? In the Vision and Scarlet Witch mini series? How did he confuse Wanda and Pietro as his own children when they were actually Magnetos? Didn't Cap help free Jack Frost from the Ice Serpent in Captain America 383 (or something like that)? Who invented liquid soap and why? An always puzzled Batroc the Leaper (I don't need a new costume just a shave!)

Bob Frank did die in the Vision and Scarlet Witch series. Bova lied and told Bob that Wanda and Pietro were his. Madeline's second child died with her and she wished to spare him any more pain. Wanda and Pietro were only a day or two old.
Jack Frost, against Cap's wishes, jumped back into the beast and re-froze it and himself (I once used this in one of my Marvel RPG adventures) .
Note: It was a great issue. Part of my fond memories of Cap before things went wrong. The Ron Lim art was great!
Ivory invented liquid soap when their plant produced twice as much liquid detergent due to a computer malfunction. They had to do something with the excess.
I'm sorry but Batroc's costume never looked as good as Hawkeye's or Wolverine's. I'm glad Hawkeye beat him in Solo Avengers. But then again he doesn't have a fin on his head like my namesake.
Patriot.

Patriot.

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 14, 1997 at 16:39:50 PDT
in reply to Re: Evil Nick Fury (1218), posted by Patriot on July 14, 1997 at 07:17:47 PDT

> I'm hoping he isn't the real Nick or he's being mind controlled. I think Marvel needs to take steps to make him more marketable so more people would want to buy his comic.

*Speculative Spoiler, not to be confused with fact*

Nahh. The REAL Nick Fury is alive and well and acting as Scorpio in the new Alpha Flight series

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 14, 1997 at 16:41:28 PDT
in reply to Re: Renumbering and Mark Waid. (1215), posted by Sledge on July 13, 1997 at 19:26:22 PDT

> The new HEROES RETURN ad that's running in some of the books have all the titles listed as #1's. I haven't heard anything lately about the variant old numbering so I think the #1's are a done deal. Bummer, huh?

As long as the quality is good, they can do whatever they want with the numbering, y'know?

-DM

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 14, 1997 at 16:43:59 PDT
in reply to The Return of the Leaper!!! (1211), posted by Batroc on July 12, 1997 at 21:41:51 PDT

> I just read the Waid/Garney interview in Wizard. I think this interview should be added to the Star Spangled Site but that decision is deferred to the All-Mighty Dave Medinnus.

Not without permission from Wizard, I won't (I asked, they haven't replied). Its a copyright thang...

...but I agree that its one of the better interviews I've seen recently.

-DM

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Posted by David Medinnus on July 14, 1997 at 16:51:55 PDT
in reply to My "Cap's Age" message. (1204), posted by Patriot on July 12, 1997 at 09:45:14 PDT

> I submitted a follow up called Cap's Age to the Message board but it took FOREVER to get through. When it did submit, there were at least 6 of them on the board. I've been e-mailing Sam Kirby to delete the other ones but my message keeps getting returned as undiliverable. Could someone e-mail him on my behalf?

Actually, I do the moderating on the Cap board (although Kirby, as Alvaro's backup, could do it also, probably); taken care of.

-DM

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Posted by Matt on July 14, 1997 at 20:22:30 PDT
in reply to Re: Renumbering and Mark Waid. (1225), posted by David Medinnus on July 14, 1997 at 16:41:28 PDT

>
> > The new HEROES RETURN ad that's running in some of the books have all the titles listed as #1's. I haven't heard anything lately about the variant old numbering so I think the #1's are a done deal. Bummer, huh?

> As long as the quality is good, they can do whatever they want with the numbering, y'know?

> -DM

I agree. Actually, I think #1s are justified in the cases of Iron Man and Avengers. The Avengers have been disbanded, so the new book starts an all-new team, in effect. Iron Man just needs as much distance from the last issues of Vol. 1 as possible. The logic from there is to give all four books the same numbering, although I do kinda hate to see the old numbering of Cap and especially FF go.

Cheers,

Matt

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