Captain America Message Board

August 1997 Archives B



Kieron Dwyer is one of the nastiest artists in the biz ! * all of yesterday's food rids of him * (1469)

Posted by Jamie on August 08, 1997 at 02:14:49 PDT
in reply to Kieron Dwyer (1462), posted by Falcon on August 07, 1997 at 10:10:26 PDT

Remember his/her run on Superman in Action Comics ? * vomits * I can't
stand this guy ! He/She drew Superman like a monkey . I'm glad he's out
of the DCU . Oh, and Denis Rodier's inks never helped . This guy should be
replaced with Brett Breeding, Joe Rubinstein, Doug Hazlewood, Terry Austin,
heck, just about anyone !

Jamie

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CAP (1470)

Posted by Inuit on August 08, 1997 at 06:42:04 PDT


Why are all the pictures of Cap so small !!??
Would it be possible to have a good picture of Cap bigger from the waist down?
thanks.

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CAP (1471)

Posted by Inuit on August 08, 1997 at 06:43:05 PDT


Why are all the pictures of Cap so small !!??
Would it be possible to have a good picture of Cap bigger from the waist down?
thanks.

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The Truth be Known (1472)

Posted by Batroc on August 08, 1997 at 07:40:45 PDT
in reply to Re: Thanks Rob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (1461), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 06, 1997 at 22:23:20 PDT

»
> > > IT'S A MATCH!!!! It was difficult to find since "The King" wrote his name rather than his trademark printed style. I found a picture with
> > his signature and printed it out. Thanks.
> > >>>Incidentally, I went to Fantasy.com and it was full of hard core porn.
> > I was pretty irritated at you right about that time, but I know that is not your idea of a joke. Now Plaidy, he would have sent me there for a few laughs............
> > Oh well, I finally got over to the Kirby site and found what I wanted.
> > Regards, Batroc the Leaper
> Gahahahaahahahhahahahha!!! You know the Skull too well!!! Fantasy.com huh? Hmmmmm.....
»
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull
»
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, porno...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
>>>>Wednesday Night Plaid entered the chat room and heard Rob and I discussing the differences between Fantasy.com and Fantasy.com/Kirby.
Plaid immediately went to the porn site and stayed for what seems like an eternity. He returned agitated, excitable, and having extreme difficulty posting coherently. At least that is the way I remember it. Batroc the instigating Leaper

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CORRECT!!!!! (1473)

Posted by Batroc on August 08, 1997 at 07:50:46 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap Triv Time (Again) (1465), posted by Rob on August 07, 1997 at 16:06:34 PDT

»
> > »Rob, Question #2 is correct. Taurey and Rogers settle their difference in #200. Your other two responses are incorrect.
> > I'm sorry. Batroc (Alex Trebek) the Leaper
> Okay, here's my second try at solving the questions...
> Steve Rogers became an athletic instructor at Manning University in Cap #120. He didn't stay long, but he gave the cops and kids a workout they won't soon forget!
> As for Figaro, I looked through Cap #117-160, and here's what I came up with:
> Sam has an unnamed cat in Cap #134.
> In Cap #137 (the issue I cited from memory last time!!), we see Sam's cat and it is named Figaro!!! I assume this is the first time his name was used.
> The only other Figaro appearances I saw between #117-120 occur in issues #139 & 157.
> So, am I right??
> Rob
>>>>Correct as usual, I believe the unnamed cat in #134 can be assumed to be Figaro. Manning University is correct not to be confused with the Lee School where the 1950's Cap taught.
I am disappointed Roscoe and others did not try their luck. TJ has been off line. I will wait until he returns before asking any more triv. Batroc the Leaper

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Re: Kieron Dwyer is one of the nastiest artists in the biz ! * all of yesterday's food rids of him * (1474)

Posted by Falcon on August 08, 1997 at 08:08:01 PDT
in reply to Kieron Dwyer is one of the nastiest artists in the biz ! * all of yesterday's food rids of him * (1469), posted by Jamie on August 08, 1997 at 02:14:49 PDT

> Remember his/her run on Superman in Action Comics ? * vomits * I can't
> stand this guy ! He/She drew Superman like a monkey . I'm glad he's out
> of the DCU . Oh, and Denis Rodier's inks never helped . This guy should be
> replaced with Brett Breeding, Joe Rubinstein, Doug Hazlewood, Terry Austin,
> heck, just about anyone !


> Jamie


He did a very good, job on Cap, I thought.

Falcon

Host = mpngate2.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.50)



Can Magneto destroy the Shield? (1475)

Posted by Batroc on August 08, 1997 at 08:19:40 PDT

>>>Molecular Rearrangement would destroy the Shield where brute force has always failed. Magnetic has hurled the Shield magnetically in Super Villian Team-up. Attn. Thor Fans, He also hurled Mjolinir which I think is inaccurate.
However, Could Magneto destroy Cap's Shield. Remember in X-men #75 he reduced Wolverine's Adamantium skeleton to ooze and brought it out his dermis layer. (Ouch!!)
My theory is this, The fully powered Magneto (post Eric the Red rejuvination, prior to the reincarnation of Joseph) could do it with time and exteme concentration.
I know this will be a controversial post, but I would like to hear your thoughts. For that is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper

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Re: Can Magneto destroy the Shield? (1476)

Posted by Falcon on August 08, 1997 at 09:56:12 PDT
in reply to Can Magneto destroy the Shield? (1475), posted by Batroc on August 08, 1997 at 08:19:40 PDT

> >>>Molecular Rearrangement would destroy the Shield where brute force has always failed. Magnetic has hurled the Shield magnetically in Super Villian Team-up. Attn. Thor Fans, He also hurled Mjolinir which I think is inaccurate.
> However, Could Magneto destroy Cap's Shield. Remember in X-men #75 he reduced Wolverine's Adamantium skeleton to ooze and brought it out his dermis layer. (Ouch!!)
> My theory is this, The fully powered Magneto (post Eric the Red rejuvination, prior to the reincarnation of Joseph) could do it with time and exteme concentration.
> I know this will be a controversial post, but I would like to hear your thoughts. For that is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper


I agree. He could probably do it with enough effort, but he probably wouldn't, unless he could do it at his leisure.

Falcon

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Re: Kieron Dwyer is good (1477)

Posted by Rob on August 08, 1997 at 12:02:08 PDT
in reply to Re: Kieron Dwyer is one of the nastiest artists in the biz ! * all of yesterday's food rids of him * (1474), posted by Falcon on August 08, 1997 at 08:08:01 PDT


> He did a very good, job on Cap, I thought.

> Falcon

I will definitely second that. I had spent years hating what had become of Cap during Gruenwald's reign. And when I first saw Dwyer's pencils (#349 & 350), because of the rushed inking style, I felt Dwyer was a poor artist. But this year, when I decided to complete my Cap collection, it is Dwyer's Bloodstone Hunt which sold me on these later Cap issues (which I'd previously despised and ignored).

I've since bought a Bizarro Superman Annual that he drew, which I wasn't as crazy about. But I love his old Cap work.

Rob

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Re: Can Magneto destroy the Shield? (1478)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 08, 1997 at 12:21:35 PDT
in reply to Can Magneto destroy the Shield? (1475), posted by Batroc on August 08, 1997 at 08:19:40 PDT


> My theory is this, The fully powered Magneto (post Eric the Red rejuvination, prior to the reincarnation of Joseph) could do it with time and exteme concentration.

I cannot help but agree; it seems clear that both Adamantium and Vinranium are magnetic, and the precedent of the Wolvie-skeleton is pretty clear. Granted, the special alloy is tougher, but Magneto didn't kill himself doing Wolvie's skeleton, either.

-DM

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Re: Kieron Dwyer is good (1479)

Posted by Falcon on August 08, 1997 at 12:27:03 PDT
in reply to Re: Kieron Dwyer is good (1477), posted by Rob on August 08, 1997 at 12:02:08 PDT

>
> > He did a very good, job on Cap, I thought.


> > Falcon


> I will definitely second that. I had spent years hating what had become of Cap during Gruenwald's reign. And when I first saw Dwyer's pencils (#349 & 350), because of the rushed inking style, I felt Dwyer was a poor artist. But this year, when I decided to complete my Cap collection, it is Dwyer's Bloodstone Hunt which sold me on these later Cap issues (which I'd previously despised and ignored).


> I've since bought a Bizarro Superman Annual that he drew, which I wasn't as crazy about. But I love his old Cap work.


> Rob


Definitely a preferable to Liefeld, at the very least.

Falcon

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Re: Vacation (1480)

Posted by NovaOO on August 08, 1997 at 16:32:02 PDT
in reply to Vacation (1404), posted by Patriot on July 30, 1997 at 19:43:26 PDT


> I'll be away till August 10th on vacation. Just so you all didn't think I wandered off to the Brother Voodoo board.
> I'm headed to the Canadian Maritimes. I'll let you guys know if I see Alpha Flight.

> Patriot

Patriot.
You know that Alpha Flight once saved Campbellton, NB. Must have saved the Fish.
NovaOO

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Re: The Truth be Known (1481)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 08, 1997 at 17:50:31 PDT
in reply to The Truth be Known (1472), posted by Batroc on August 08, 1997 at 07:40:45 PDT

> »
> > > > IT'S A MATCH!!!! It was difficult to find since "The King" wrote his name rather than his trademark printed style. I found a picture with
> > > his signature and printed it out. Thanks.
> > > >>>Incidentally, I went to Fantasy.com and it was full of hard core porn.
> > > I was pretty irritated at you right about that time, but I know that is not your idea of a joke. Now Plaidy, he would have sent me there for a few laughs............
> > > Oh well, I finally got over to the Kirby site and found what I wanted.
> > > Regards, Batroc the Leaper
> > Gahahahaahahahhahahahha!!! You know the Skull too well!!! Fantasy.com huh? Hmmmmm.....
> »
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> »
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, porno...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> >>>>Wednesday Night Plaid entered the chat room and heard Rob and I discussing the differences between Fantasy.com and Fantasy.com/Kirby.
> Plaid immediately went to the porn site and stayed for what seems like an eternity. He returned agitated, excitable, and having extreme difficulty posting coherently. At least that is the way I remember it. Batroc the instigating Leaper

Hey! Hey! Hey! I did not stay there for an eternity!! I didn't even let those banners load! Besides it was probably one of those pay for sites!! I was there at least for like 3 seconds then I immediatly pressed the "back" button!! Who're you gonna beleive,folks? A Leaper or a Skull?

Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Captain America-undoing a legend (1482)

Posted by gordon on August 09, 1997 at 06:18:43 PDT

Can someone explain the rationale behind this heroes reborn crud?

I like some of the new art, (Cap really looks good) but why are they doing this?

How will it all end? Will Cap wake up in the shower and we will be told it all was a dream?

I don't think I can take much more of this rewrite of my favorite legend.

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Re: Captain America-undoing a legend (1483)

Posted by Falcon on August 09, 1997 at 12:08:25 PDT
in reply to Captain America-undoing a legend (1482), posted by gordon on August 09, 1997 at 06:18:43 PDT


> Can someone explain the rationale behind this heroes reborn crud?

> I like some of the new art, (Cap really looks good) but why are they doing this?

> How will it all end? Will Cap wake up in the shower and we will be told it all was a dream?

> I don't think I can take much more of this rewrite of my favorite legend.

Cap and the other heroes will be returning in a 4-part series, all 4 parts being released in October. In November, a new volume of the Cap (along with the Fantastic Four series) will begin, .

Falcon

Host = 197.new-york-008.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.39.197)



Re: Captain America-undoing a legend (1484)

Posted by Falcon on August 09, 1997 at 12:09:29 PDT
in reply to Captain America-undoing a legend (1482), posted by gordon on August 09, 1997 at 06:18:43 PDT


> Can someone explain the rationale behind this heroes reborn crud?

> I like some of the new art, (Cap really looks good) but why are they doing this?

> How will it all end? Will Cap wake up in the shower and we will be told it all was a dream?

> I don't think I can take much more of this rewrite of my favorite legend.

Cap and the other heroes will be returning in a 4-part series, all 4 parts being released in October. In November, a new volume of the Cap (along with the Fantastic Four series) will begin, .

Falcon

Oops, forgot the mention the title of the 4-parter: Heroes Reborn: the Return, by Peter David and Sal Larrocca

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Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1485)

Posted by Jamie on August 09, 1997 at 15:28:08 PDT

Fanboys,

Agent America was the best knock off of Captain America ever .
I have seen plenty of them, too, if I might add . First one I know
about is U.S. Agent, Agent Liberty, and S.H.I.E.L.D. from Impact
Comics . The worst I have ever seen is Agent Liberty . Why ?
Because he has a bad attitude, for one . He also flies around in
a jetpack . Original . And he is too involved with the goverment .
That leads me to Agent America . Not only does his name have a
nice sound to it, he looks so cool ! It kind of reminds me of Captain
America in a new costume, which is neat, too . But let's keep one
thing in mind, shall we ? He isn't exactly Cap . For one, Agent America/
Fighting American has a much bigger bone structure . He has more
muscletone, also . Anyway, he looks older . He doesn't have wings on
his head, either !
All I'm really saying is that Rob Liefeld's Fighting American/Agent America
was an easy escape for Jeph Loeb and him to work on something similar
to Cap, but neither FA or AA are complete Cap knock-offs ! And no, his
work wasn't redrawn/rewritten .

Jamie

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Re: Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1486)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 09, 1997 at 16:42:46 PDT
in reply to Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1485), posted by Jamie on August 09, 1997 at 15:28:08 PDT


> Fanboys,
>
> Agent America was the best knock off of Captain America ever .
> I have seen plenty of them, too, if I might add . First one I know
> about is U.S. Agent, Agent Liberty, and S.H.I.E.L.D. from Impact
> Comics . The worst I have ever seen is Agent Liberty . Why ?
> Because he has a bad attitude, for one . He also flies around in
> a jetpack . Original . And he is too involved with the goverment .
> That leads me to Agent America . Not only does his name have a
> nice sound to it, he looks so cool ! It kind of reminds me of Captain
> America in a new costume, which is neat, too . But let's keep one
> thing in mind, shall we ? He isn't exactly Cap . For one, Agent America/
> Fighting American has a much bigger bone structure . He has more
> muscletone, also . Anyway, he looks older . He doesn't have wings on
> his head, either !
> All I'm really saying is that Rob Liefeld's Fighting American/Agent America
> was an easy escape for Jeph Loeb and him to work on something similar
> to Cap, but neither FA or AA are complete Cap knock-offs ! And no, his
> work wasn't redrawn/rewritten .

> Jamie

Just a little note but Shield from impact comics was based upon Pep comics Shield which preceeded Cap, so he can't be a knock-off. Secondly, Agent Liberty is nothing like Cap (aside from the fact he's a patriotic super-hero.).

Tobin

Host = host525.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.13)



Re: Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1487)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 09, 1997 at 16:45:09 PDT
in reply to Re: Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1486), posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 09, 1997 at 16:42:46 PDT

>
> > Fanboys,
> >
> > Agent America was the best knock off of Captain America ever .
> > I have seen plenty of them, too, if I might add . First one I know
> > about is U.S. Agent, Agent Liberty, and S.H.I.E.L.D. from Impact
> > Comics . The worst I have ever seen is Agent Liberty . Why ?
> > Because he has a bad attitude, for one . He also flies around in
> > a jetpack . Original . And he is too involved with the goverment .
> > That leads me to Agent America . Not only does his name have a
> > nice sound to it, he looks so cool ! It kind of reminds me of Captain
> > America in a new costume, which is neat, too . But let's keep one
> > thing in mind, shall we ? He isn't exactly Cap . For one, Agent America/
> > Fighting American has a much bigger bone structure . He has more
> > muscletone, also . Anyway, he looks older . He doesn't have wings on
> > his head, either !
> > All I'm really saying is that Rob Liefeld's Fighting American/Agent America
> > was an easy escape for Jeph Loeb and him to work on something similar
> > to Cap, but neither FA or AA are complete Cap knock-offs ! And no, his
> > work wasn't redrawn/rewritten .

> > Jamie

> Just a little note but Shield from impact comics was based upon Pep comics Shield which preceeded Cap, so he can't be a knock-off. Secondly, Agent Liberty is nothing like Cap (aside from the fact he's a patriotic super-hero.).

> Tobin

Oh yeah, also if you want to talk about original how about a female side-kick for FA/AA who looks mysteriously like Liefields' Buckette and an arch-villain called the "Silver Skull", who's a Nazi. Yeah that's original.

Tobin

Host = host525.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.13)



so true (1488)

Posted by agent america on August 09, 1997 at 19:53:16 PDT
in reply to Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1485), posted by Jamie on August 09, 1997 at 15:28:08 PDT

> Fanboys,
>
> Agent America was the best knock off of Captain America ever .
> I have seen plenty of them, too, if I might add . First one I know
> about is U.S. Agent, Agent Liberty, and S.H.I.E.L.D. from Impact
> Comics . The worst I have ever seen is Agent Liberty . Why ?
> Because he has a bad attitude, for one . He also flies around in
> a jetpack . Original . And he is too involved with the goverment .
> That leads me to Agent America . Not only does his name have a
> nice sound to it, he looks so cool ! It kind of reminds me of Captain
> America in a new costume, which is neat, too . But let's keep one
> thing in mind, shall we ? He isn't exactly Cap . For one, Agent America/
> Fighting American has a much bigger bone structure . He has more
> muscletone, also . Anyway, he looks older . He doesn't have wings on
> his head, either !
> All I'm really saying is that Rob Liefeld's Fighting American/Agent America
> was an easy escape for Jeph Loeb and him to work on something similar
> to Cap, but neither FA or AA are complete Cap knock-offs ! And no, his
> work wasn't redrawn/rewritten .

> Jamie
He has diffrent powers to.

Host = 208.10.2.63 (208.10.2.63)



I'M BAAACK! (also answers to various posts) (1489)

Posted by Patriot on August 09, 1997 at 20:30:39 PDT

As US Agent returned in Cap #354, I have returned from my vacation. I didn't see Alpha Flight in New Brunswick (but I did see a hick who was hairy enough to be Sasquatch). At least I got to drive home through Maine-New Hampshire-Vermont and upstate New Wow! A lot of good discussions have been posted since I've been gone. I'm going to answer the one's that I can here ( I just got back and don't have much time).
1. Cap's Shield:
The shield cannot be destroyed by a molecular rearranger. The vibranium part of the shield absorbs the energy that attempts to devide the molecules. Magneto could not damage the shield for the same reason. Any magnetic force would be absorbed by the vibranium. This only works in the attempt of destroying the shield. Magneto can fling it around all he wants.Magneto is not powerful enough to affect adamantium on a molecular level. Although Mr Kubert did an excellent job pencilling X-Men #25, he made it look like Magneto liquified the metal. He did not. He simply pulled it from Logan's bones.
The only two individuals that have damaged the shield are Doom (with the Beyonder's power) and Thanos while wearing the Infinity Gauntlet. They overpowered the vibranium matrix with their neer infinite control over reality. The only other beings capable of this are the Celestials, Eternity, Death, the Living Tribunal and other neer infinates. Even the quasi cosmics like Galactus and Stranger cannot harm the shield.
2. Jamie:
Good to see you back. I like the controversy you bring wit hyour love of Liefeld. Even if it's one I don't share.
3. Night Hawk:
Nice to see you finally took my suggestion and tuned in to the board.
4: Liberty Legion.
I will now post the members and final fates of this doomed team.
Red Raven: Died in the Uncanny X-men.
Miss America: Died in child birth.
Whizzer: Died while fighting Isbisa, a 50's villain, while saving his son: Nuclo.
Blue Diamond: Turned into a living diamond and left for space. He recently returned to earth.
Jack Frost: In suspended animation within a huge ice serpent in the arctic.
Thin Man: Is now a bitter old man who hunts down and kills Nazi war criminals.
And finally (last but never least) Patriot:
Died of cancer with Cap at his side. "Sniff".

There. I'm done.
A long winded Patriot.

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Re: Kieron Dwyer is good (1490)

Posted by Roscoe on August 09, 1997 at 22:18:51 PDT
in reply to Re: Kieron Dwyer is good (1479), posted by Falcon on August 08, 1997 at 12:27:03 PDT

> >
> > > He did a very good, job on Cap, I thought.

>
> > > Falcon

>
> > I will definitely second that. I had spent years hating what had become of Cap during Gruenwald's reign. And when I first saw Dwyer's pencils (#349 & 350), because of the rushed inking style, I felt Dwyer was a poor artist. But this year, when I decided to complete my Cap collection, it is Dwyer's Bloodstone Hunt which sold me on these later Cap issues (which I'd previously despised and ignored).

>
> > I've since bought a Bizarro Superman Annual that he drew, which I wasn't as crazy about. But I love his old Cap work.

>
> > Rob

>
> Definitely a preferable to Liefeld, at the very least.

> Falcon

I quite enjoy Dwyer's art, and might add that he is a very nice guy as well.

-Roscoe

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Re: so true agent america is nothing like cap jamie read (1491)

Posted by agent america on August 09, 1997 at 23:58:27 PDT
in reply to so true (1488), posted by agent america on August 09, 1997 at 19:53:16 PDT

> They have diffrent powers. Jamie was the preveiw good. how big was he in judgment day one

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Re: The Truth be Known (1492)

Posted by agent america on August 10, 1997 at 00:16:06 PDT
in reply to Re: The Truth be Known (1481), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 08, 1997 at 17:50:31 PDT

when I type it in it went to the comic one.

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Re: so true (1493)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 10, 1997 at 00:27:55 PDT
in reply to so true (1488), posted by agent america on August 09, 1997 at 19:53:16 PDT

> > Fanboys,
> >
> > Agent America was the best knock off of Captain America ever .
> > I have seen plenty of them, too, if I might add . First one I know
> > about is U.S. Agent, Agent Liberty, and S.H.I.E.L.D. from Impact
> > Comics . The worst I have ever seen is Agent Liberty . Why ?
> > Because he has a bad attitude, for one . He also flies around in
> > a jetpack . Original . And he is too involved with the goverment .
> > That leads me to Agent America . Not only does his name have a
> > nice sound to it, he looks so cool ! It kind of reminds me of Captain
> > America in a new costume, which is neat, too . But let's keep one
> > thing in mind, shall we ? He isn't exactly Cap . For one, Agent America/
> > Fighting American has a much bigger bone structure . He has more
> > muscletone, also . Anyway, he looks older . He doesn't have wings on
> > his head, either !
> > All I'm really saying is that Rob Liefeld's Fighting American/Agent America
> > was an easy escape for Jeph Loeb and him to work on something similar
> > to Cap, but neither FA or AA are complete Cap knock-offs ! And no, his
> > work wasn't redrawn/rewritten .

> > Jamie
> He has diffrent powers to.

Yeah? Well, what's his powers? And does he have a shield? Does he have a skull-headed villain? Does he have a teenage side kick?


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-05.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.37)



S.P.I.C.E. (1494)

Posted by Jamie on August 10, 1997 at 01:15:51 PDT

S.P.I.C.E. is another of Rob Liefeld's cool creations for Awesome
Entertainment . Some say she is a copy off of Rikki Barnes a.k.a
Bucky .

I don't think so ! S.P.I.C.E. from what I hear, is going to have a way
bigger 'tude and is going to be a brat . Where did I hear this from ?
In Fighting American's Special Comic Con Edition .

On one of the pages, there is sloppy writing saying that S.P.I.C.E.
will call Fighting American stuff like " Old man ", " Pops ", and
" Grandpa " .

Now, in Rob Liefeld's run on Cap, I think that Rikki was very
respectful toward him, wouldn't you say ? Anyway, like FA,
S.P.I.C.E. is quite a bit older than Bucky !

So, tell me with a straight face that S.P.I.C.E. is a copy off of
the teenage Bucky in recent Cap issues !

Jamie

P.S. Also, Fighting American had a recent WAY cool costume
change ! >see Wizard # 73

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Just say NO--to Liefeld! (1495)

Posted by Red Norvell on August 10, 1997 at 02:37:38 PDT
in reply to Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1485), posted by Jamie on August 09, 1997 at 15:28:08 PDT

> Fanboys,
>
> Agent America was the best knock off of Captain America ever .
> I have seen plenty of them, too, if I might add . First one I know
> about is U.S. Agent, Agent Liberty, and S.H.I.E.L.D. from Impact
> Comics . The worst I have ever seen is Agent Liberty . Why ?
> Because he has a bad attitude, for one . He also flies around in
> a jetpack . Original . And he is too involved with the goverment .
> That leads me to Agent America . Not only does his name have a
> nice sound to it, he looks so cool ! It kind of reminds me of Captain
> America in a new costume, which is neat, too . But let's keep one
> thing in mind, shall we ? He isn't exactly Cap . For one, Agent America/
> Fighting American has a much bigger bone structure . He has more
> muscletone, also . Anyway, he looks older . He doesn't have wings on
> his head, either !
> All I'm really saying is that Rob Liefeld's Fighting American/Agent America
> was an easy escape for Jeph Loeb and him to work on something similar
> to Cap, but neither FA or AA are complete Cap knock-offs ! And no, his
> work wasn't redrawn/rewritten .

> Jamie

Ughh, please stop. I can't stands no more!

If Rob Liefeld draws it, of course he'll have a much bigger bone structure. I still have nightmares about his 15 foot, Cap-zilla.

All of Liefeld's characters are rip-offs. He has NO TALENT, so he copies--I mean steels--other peoples ideas. I just hope Marvel sues his ass.

-Red Norvell (the anti-Liefeld!)

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Re: I'M BAAACK! (also answers to various posts) (1496)

Posted by Red Norvell on August 10, 1997 at 02:58:19 PDT
in reply to I'M BAAACK! (also answers to various posts) (1489), posted by Patriot on August 09, 1997 at 20:30:39 PDT

> 1. Cap's Shield:
> The shield cannot be destroyed by a molecular rearranger. The vibranium part of the shield absorbs the energy that attempts to devide the molecules. Magneto could not damage the shield for the same reason. Any magnetic force would be absorbed by the vibranium. This only works in the attempt of destroying the shield. Magneto can fling it around all he wants.Magneto is not powerful enough to affect adamantium on a molecular level. Although Mr Kubert did an excellent job pencilling X-Men #25, he made it look like Magneto liquified the metal. He did not. He simply pulled it from Logan's bones.
> The only two individuals that have damaged the shield are Doom (with the Beyonder's power) and Thanos while wearing the Infinity Gauntlet. They overpowered the vibranium matrix with their neer infinite control over reality. The only other beings capable of this are the Celestials, Eternity, Death, the Living Tribunal and other neer infinates. Even the quasi cosmics like Galactus and Stranger cannot harm the shield.

I'm sorry, but that's simply ridiculous. Galactus or the Stranger not being able to harm the shield? What ever you're on, cut the dose. :)

Vibranium can be taken apart at the molecular level. It's made up of molecules, isn't it? No matter how dense, or odd, the matter is, it is still only molecules. Perhaps terran technology cannot muster the power, but the Silver Surfer could--easily. Cosmic energy works not only at the sub-molecular level--but the sub-atomic level! Everything in the universe was created from cosmic energy. Air, color, stars, nebulas--all of it. Think of it as Eternity's blood. The only way for the shield to resist cosmic power, is if it was forged outside the the Multiverse entirely.

Galactus could create a billion shields--much, much, tougher than any vibranium/adamantium mix. Sorry, but it's true.

-Red Norvell

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Adamantium, Vibranium, Shaimium!! (1497)

Posted by Batroc on August 10, 1997 at 06:08:33 PDT
in reply to Re: I'M BAAACK! (also answers to various posts) (1496), posted by Red Norvell on August 10, 1997 at 02:58:19 PDT

> > 1. Cap's Shield:
> > The shield cannot be destroyed by a molecular rearranger. The vibranium part of the shield absorbs the energy that attempts to devide the molecules. Magneto could not damage the shield for the same reason. Any magnetic force would be absorbed by the vibranium. This only works in the attempt of destroying the shield. Magneto can fling it around all he wants.Magneto is not powerful enough to affect adamantium on a molecular level. Although Mr Kubert did an excellent job pencilling X-Men #25, he made it look like Magneto liquified the metal. He did not. He simply pulled it from Logan's bones.
> > The only two individuals that have damaged the shield are Doom (with the Beyonder's power) and Thanos while wearing the Infinity Gauntlet. They overpowered the vibranium matrix with their neer infinite control over reality. The only other beings capable of this are the Celestials, Eternity, Death, the Living Tribunal and other neer infinates. Even the quasi cosmics like Galactus and Stranger cannot harm the shield.
> I'm sorry, but that's simply ridiculous. Galactus or the Stranger not being able to harm the shield? What ever you're on, cut the dose. :)
> Vibranium can be taken apart at the molecular level. It's made up of molecules, isn't it? No matter how dense, or odd, the matter is, it is still only molecules. Perhaps terran technology cannot muster the power, but the Silver Surfer could--easily. Cosmic energy works not only at the sub-molecular level--but the sub-atomic level! Everything in the universe was created from cosmic energy. Air, color, stars, nebulas--all of it. Think of it as Eternity's blood. The only way for the shield to resist cosmic power, is if it was forged outside the the Multiverse entirely.
> Galactus could create a billion shields--much, much, tougher than any vibranium/adamantium mix. Sorry, but it's true.
> -Red Norvell
>>>Good to have you back Patriot. Now concerning the Shield. I'm assuming your thoughts on this subject are your own, since you give few MU references. Personally, I beleive Magneto affected Wolverine's adamanium on a molecular level. First, Adamantium was introduced into the Marvel Universe with a molecular rearranger (Avengers #66) and secondly Ultron created vats of the stuff in Avengers #202. I think the fully powered Magneto could reduce it to ooze and forcibly remove it with enough effort. I also agree with Red that some cosmic powered beings could affect the Shield. Galactus with three square meals (planets) in him for sure.
This ability would depend upon the power of the cosmic being. Silver Surfer, maybe. Sue Richards, no way.
>>>This vibarnium, I could not find any solid references to its properties. I know it is impact absorbant and is mined in Wakanda. I thought there was some in Kazar's land, but I may be wrong. However, again I think it can be affected on a molecular level. For example, how did T'Challa make Cap a new finely crafted Shield? Not by banging a vibranium or adamanium hammer against vibranium ore. He had to melt, rearrange,or some how manipulate his vibranium ore. This is why i believe that if Magneto had Batroc' Brigade steal the shield and had a day or two to kill, he could reduce it to red, white, and blue colored ooze. He might also discover the correct mix and be able to replicate the shield. Remember I am talking about the Post Eric the Red, prior to Joseph, MAGNETO.
Ciao Batroc the Leaper

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Re: I'M BAAACK! (also answers to various posts) (1498)

Posted by Falcon on August 10, 1997 at 07:39:35 PDT
in reply to Re: I'M BAAACK! (also answers to various posts) (1496), posted by Red Norvell on August 10, 1997 at 02:58:19 PDT


> > 1. Cap's Shield:
> > The shield cannot be destroyed by a molecular rearranger. The vibranium part of the shield absorbs the energy that attempts to devide the molecules. Magneto could not damage the shield for the same reason. Any magnetic force would be absorbed by the vibranium. This only works in the attempt of destroying the shield. Magneto can fling it around all he wants.Magneto is not powerful enough to affect adamantium on a molecular level. Although Mr Kubert did an excellent job pencilling X-Men #25, he made it look like Magneto liquified the metal. He did not. He simply pulled it from Logan's bones.
> > The only two individuals that have damaged the shield are Doom (with the Beyonder's power) and Thanos while wearing the Infinity Gauntlet. They overpowered the vibranium matrix with their neer infinite control over reality. The only other beings capable of this are the Celestials, Eternity, Death, the Living Tribunal and other neer infinates. Even the quasi cosmics like Galactus and Stranger cannot harm the shield.

> I'm sorry, but that's simply ridiculous. Galactus or the Stranger not being able to harm the shield? What ever you're on, cut the dose. :)

> Vibranium can be taken apart at the molecular level. It's made up of molecules, isn't it? No matter how dense, or odd, the matter is, it is still only molecules. Perhaps terran technology cannot muster the power, but the Silver Surfer could--easily. Cosmic energy works not only at the sub-molecular level--but the sub-atomic level! Everything in the universe was created from cosmic energy. Air, color, stars, nebulas--all of it. Think of it as Eternity's blood. The only way for the shield to resist cosmic power, is if it was forged outside the the Multiverse entirely.

> Galactus could create a billion shields--much, much, tougher than any vibranium/adamantium mix. Sorry, but it's true.

> -Red Norvell

Welcome Back Patriot! I'm inclined to agree with Red, though, at least as far as Galactus is concerned. I mean he can transmute polluted air into components for his world-devouring apparatus (as evidenced in FF 243).

Falcon

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Re: Adamantium, Vibranium, Shaimium!! (1499)

Posted by Patriot on August 10, 1997 at 08:00:49 PDT
in reply to Adamantium, Vibranium, Shaimium!! (1497), posted by Batroc on August 10, 1997 at 06:08:33 PDT


> > > 1. Cap's Shield:
> > > The shield cannot be destroyed by a molecular rearranger. The vibranium part of the shield absorbs the energy that attempts to devide the molecules. Magneto could not damage the shield for the same reason. Any magnetic force would be absorbed by the vibranium. This only works in the attempt of destroying the shield. Magneto can fling it around all he wants.Magneto is not powerful enough to affect adamantium on a molecular level. Although Mr Kubert did an excellent job pencilling X-Men #25, he made it look like Magneto liquified the metal. He did not. He simply pulled it from Logan's bones.
> > > The only two individuals that have damaged the shield are Doom (with the Beyonder's power) and Thanos while wearing the Infinity Gauntlet. They overpowered the vibranium matrix with their neer infinite control over reality. The only other beings capable of this are the Celestials, Eternity, Death, the Living Tribunal and other neer infinates. Even the quasi cosmics like Galactus and Stranger cannot harm the shield.
> > I'm sorry, but that's simply ridiculous. Galactus or the Stranger not being able to harm the shield? What ever you're on, cut the dose. :)
> > Vibranium can be taken apart at the molecular level. It's made up of molecules, isn't it? No matter how dense, or odd, the matter is, it is still only molecules. Perhaps terran technology cannot muster the power, but the Silver Surfer could--easily. Cosmic energy works not only at the sub-molecular level--but the sub-atomic level! Everything in the universe was created from cosmic energy. Air, color, stars, nebulas--all of it. Think of it as Eternity's blood. The only way for the shield to resist cosmic power, is if it was forged outside the the Multiverse entirely.
> > Galactus could create a billion shields--much, much, tougher than any vibranium/adamantium mix. Sorry, but it's true.
> > -Red Norvell
> >>>Good to have you back Patriot. Now concerning the Shield. I'm assuming your thoughts on this subject are your own, since you give few MU references. Personally, I beleive Magneto affected Wolverine's adamanium on a molecular level. First, Adamantium was introduced into the Marvel Universe with a molecular rearranger (Avengers #66) and secondly Ultron created vats of the stuff in Avengers #202. I think the fully powered Magneto could reduce it to ooze and forcibly remove it with enough effort. I also agree with Red that some cosmic powered beings could affect the Shield. Galactus with three square meals (planets) in him for sure.
> This ability would depend upon the power of the cosmic being. Silver Surfer, maybe. Sue Richards, no way.
> >>>This vibarnium, I could not find any solid references to its properties. I know it is impact absorbant and is mined in Wakanda. I thought there was some in Kazar's land, but I may be wrong. However, again I think it can be affected on a molecular level. For example, how did T'Challa make Cap a new finely crafted Shield? Not by banging a vibranium or adamanium hammer against vibranium ore. He had to melt, rearrange,or some how manipulate his vibranium ore. This is why i believe that if Magneto had Batroc' Brigade steal the shield and had a day or two to kill, he could reduce it to red, white, and blue colored ooze. He might also discover the correct mix and be able to replicate the shield. Remember I am talking about the Post Eric the Red, prior to Joseph, MAGNETO.
> Ciao Batroc the Leaper
I couldn't quote references to my thoughts as I don't have the MU book that described Cap's shield (lost with other childhood comics). I remember the weapons book stating that it was impervious to almost everything but the most cosmic of individuals. However, and this might not be worth much to you guys, I have its statistics from the Marvel Super Heroes RPG. These stats were put together by and consulted by most of the Marvel editing bullpin. They make it strong enough to withstand a nuclear blast, Galactus and Stranger. This freak metal is described as weighing less then Uru but being just as strong. The only thing to shatter Uru has been a Celestial I believe.
Just a little MURPG lesson. Most of you know that strength classes in various MU books are described as Class 75 or Class 100. These classes were derived from the RPG and used in Marvel Handbooks. In the RPG, cosmic powered beings are devided in 3 classes: Class 1000, Class3000 and Class 5000. Cap's shield and Thor's hammer are Class 3000 weapons. Galactus and Stranger are only Class 1000 hitters. Celestials, Eternity, Beyonder et al are Class 5000 threats.
I'm contacting two guys who have most of the Handbooks and might give me firm references. In the meantime, the RPG is accurate enough for me. My point is that there must be a reason that Marvel writers have only allowed the most powerful beings to destroy his shield.

A Patriot on the defense.

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Re: Captain America-undoing a legend (1500)

Posted by gordon on August 10, 1997 at 08:15:55 PDT
in reply to Re: Captain America-undoing a legend (1484), posted by Falcon on August 09, 1997 at 12:09:29 PDT

> Cap and the other heroes will be returning in a 4-part series, all 4 parts being released in October. In November, a new volume of the Cap (along with the Fantastic Four series) will begin, .

> Falcon

> Oops, forgot the mention the title of the 4-parter: Heroes Reborn: the Return, by Peter David and Sal Larrocca

Thanks for the info. I kinda have felt like this was an alternate reality we have been watching.

Things just weren't quite right.

gordon

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A note on the Power Cosmic. (1501)

Posted by Patriot on August 10, 1997 at 08:30:34 PDT
in reply to Re: I'M BAAACK! (also answers to various posts) (1496), posted by Red Norvell on August 10, 1997 at 02:58:19 PDT

Perhaps terran technology cannot muster the power, but the Silver Surfer could--easily. Cosmic energy works not only at the sub-molecular level--but the sub-atomic level! Everything in the universe was created from cosmic energy. Air, color, stars, nebulas--all of it. Think of it as Eternity's blood. The only way for the shield to resist cosmic power, is if it was forged outside the the Multiverse entirely.

> Galactus could create a billion shields--much, much, tougher than any vibranium/adamantium mix. Sorry, but it's true.

> -Red Norvell

While I agree completely with your explanation of the Power Cosmic (thinking of it as Eternity's blood is a great analogy), not everyone that manipulates it has the same access to the major arteries. Silver Surfur was infused with enough Cosmic Power to do Galactus' bidding. That is a lot of power compared to earth standards but still only puts him around Thor's league or a little higher. He doesn't even rate with the major cosmic forces because of his small dose of Power Cosmic. Otherwise he would have destroyed Iron Man and Hulk whenever they fought.
Likewise, Galactus doesn't have the access to Cosmic Energy as The Celestials do. If he did, he would eradicate his hunger by soaking up more Cosmic Power. My point is that not everyone with Cosmic Power can harm the Shield.
Patriot.

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Re: S.P.I.C.E. ...If ya wanna be my.... (1502)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 10, 1997 at 09:41:15 PDT
in reply to S.P.I.C.E. (1494), posted by Jamie on August 10, 1997 at 01:15:51 PDT

> S.P.I.C.E. is another of Rob Liefeld's cool creations for Awesome
> Entertainment . Some say she is a copy off of Rikki Barnes a.k.a
> Bucky .

> I don't think so ! S.P.I.C.E. from what I hear, is going to have a way
> bigger 'tude and is going to be a brat . Where did I hear this from ?
> In Fighting American's Special Comic Con Edition .

> On one of the pages, there is sloppy writing saying that S.P.I.C.E.
> will call Fighting American stuff like " Old man ", " Pops ", and
> " Grandpa " .

> Now, in Rob Liefeld's run on Cap, I think that Rikki was very
> respectful toward him, wouldn't you say ? Anyway, like FA,
> S.P.I.C.E. is quite a bit older than Bucky !

> So, tell me with a straight face that S.P.I.C.E. is a copy off of
> the teenage Bucky in recent Cap issues !

> Jamie

> P.S. Also, Fighting American had a recent WAY cool costume
> change ! >see Wizard # 73

With this information in mind, I have two possible comments....

1) SPICE is a blatant rip off of the Jason Todd Robin.......

or

2) SPICE is a blatant rip off or new member of a popular singing group....which one though???.....hmmmmm........ must be clove cause it leaves a bad taste in my mouth...


Ned

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Re: Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1503)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 10, 1997 at 10:00:23 PDT
in reply to Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1485), posted by Jamie on August 09, 1997 at 15:28:08 PDT

> Fanboys,

That would be us... :)

> Agent America was the best knock off of Captain America ever .

I cannot disagree with you more, especially since little of substance has been released from Liefield.

First, lets define 'knock-off'; any patriotic hero? In which case Cap isn't an original either; the original Shield (archie comix) predates him. But that's not a fair definition, any more than saying that a 'bug theme' superhero is a knock-off of Spidy; the Tarantula (DC) is a spider-named hero with no relation.

Likewise, I don't really consider the Patriot and/or The Spirit Of '76 to be Cap knock-offs - they have their own costume, their own gimmicks (the bulletproof cape, for example). I like to reserve 'knock-off' for blatent "he's not Cap but he might as well be" imitators, such as the unrevised USAgent. Hmm...stole the Captain costume, has a vibranium shield...yep. Cap knock-off.

Now, bearing in mind that I wasn't at the San Diego Comic Con, and haven't seen any Fighting American #1 issues yet, my judgement is based on the promotional artwork I've seen for "Agent America":

* Patriotic suit - check.
* Shield - check
* Mis-colored Red Skull villian - check
* The Buckette with colors re-done - check

...and of course...

* Lawsuit from Marvel - check

Contrary to popular belief, Marvel is not particularly sue-happy these days; they have other headaches (like bankruptcy).

> I have seen plenty of them, too, if I might add.

Three is not MY definition of plenty; try a good dozen (and with your loose definition of knock-off, it should be pretty easy to fill):

* Patriot
* USAgent
* Miss America
* Fighting American (the original)
* Agent America/Fighting American
* Agent Liberty
* The Super-Patriot
* Major Force
* Spirit of '76
* Major Victory
* Right-Winger & Left-Winger
* Battlestar
* Liberty Belle
* Steel (DC, the dead Justice Leaguer, not the current)

and the foreign knock-offs:

* Union Jack (all vintages)
* Red Guardian (all vintages)
* Captain Britain
* Guardian (the original, called derisively 'Captain Maple Leaf')
* Captain Canuck

> The worst I have ever seen is Agent Liberty . Why ?

Actually, I agree; he is a very bad knock-off. Mostly because he BEARS no resemblence to Captain America.

> Because he has a bad attitude, for one . He also flies around in
> a jetpack . Original . And he is too involved with the goverment .

Evidence for his defense. And if using a jetpack is unoriginal, everyone since Buck Rogers is guilty (with respects to Wonder Man, RIP).

> That leads me to Agent America . Not only does his name have a
> nice sound to it, he looks so cool !

Style over substance? I don't mean to be excessively picky, but he looks keen only if you like the Liefield style; I don't. Your mileage is allowed to vary, though. :)

And I confess, I do like the name.

> It kind of reminds me of Captain America in a new costume...

It IS the artwork of Captain America, with different detail.

> For one, Agent America/Fighting American has a much bigger bone structure . He has more muscletone, also . Anyway, he looks older . He doesn't have wings on his head, either !

He looks precisely like the way Ron draws Cap. Minus the wings. But keep the shield.

The URL at:

http://www.sigma.net/capt_am/images/agentam.gif

pretty much says it all, IMHO.

> All I'm really saying is that Rob Liefeld's Fighting American/Agent America
> was an easy escape for Jeph Loeb and him...

I agree, which is part of my objection. Leifield always seems to take the easy way. Doesn't want to work to make his deadlines? Extend the shipping date. Doesn't want an editor to demand more story/smaller panels or consistency in the artwork? Become the boss.

I think that Liefield has a certain amount of talent. But he is lazy and undisciplined. Which is OK per se, but a waste of potential.

> ...to work on something similar
> to Cap, but neither FA or AA are complete Cap knock-offs ! And no, his
> work wasn't redrawn/rewritten .

How do you know that the unused work wasn't redrawn/re-written. Granted, I can't prove that it was, but at least I have Occams Razor on my side.

Jaime, I don't mind you liking Liefield's work, but open your eyes beyond the imagery (no pun intended), the splash-pages, and the pin-up work. It takes hard work and discipline to put out a quality product consistently and on-time, and Liefield doesn't work that hard. I love the work of Neal Adams, but he can't meet a deadline to save his life anymore, and his various independent comic publishing died because of it - he is the Ghost of Christmas Future for Robbie.

-DM

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Adamantium, yet again... (1504)

Posted by Night Hawk on August 10, 1997 at 13:50:32 PDT

Thanks for the welcome Patriot, its good to be here. And welcome back. I sure didn't expect my question about adamantium to spark such a debate but the information about Cap's shield has been much appreciated, thanks to all. However, I have another question. I understand that the vibranium/adamantium mixture used to create Cap's shield was an accident that cannot be duplicated again. However, why doesn't the scientific types i.e. Iron-Man, or Dr. Doom use adamantium in their armor? After all if adamantium can be bonded to Wolverine's bones it should be capable of bonding to another metal. Or (and I am going by Batroc's word here as I don't have the issue myself) Ultron-6 made his body out of the stuff. Maybe Iron-Man or Doom would not be able to make an entire suit of armor out of adamantium as they would have to have moveable joints. However, they should have the technology to create adamatium chest or face plates. Does anyone agree with me here? Any input on the creation of adamantium armor would be apprieciated.

An inquisitive Night Hawk

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Re: Adamantium, yet again... (1505)

Posted by Patriot on August 10, 1997 at 15:48:44 PDT
in reply to Adamantium, yet again... (1504), posted by Night Hawk on August 10, 1997 at 13:50:32 PDT


> Thanks for the welcome Patriot, its good to be here. And welcome back. I sure didn't expect my question about adamantium to spark such a debate but the information about Cap's shield has been much appreciated, thanks to all. However, I have another question. I understand that the vibranium/adamantium mixture used to create Cap's shield was an accident that cannot be duplicated again. However, why doesn't the scientific types i.e. Iron-Man, or Dr. Doom use adamantium in their armor? After all if adamantium can be bonded to Wolverine's bones it should be capable of bonding to another metal. Or (and I am going by Batroc's word here as I don't have the issue myself) Ultron-6 made his body out of the stuff. Maybe Iron-Man or Doom would not be able to make an entire suit of armor out of adamantium as they would have to have moveable joints. However, they should have the technology to create adamatium chest or face plates. Does anyone agree with me here? Any input on the creation of adamantium armor would be apprieciated.

> An inquisitive Night Hawk

One quick answer would be that no writer wants their hero that powerful. With armor like that, the hero wouldn't have to worry about taking a hit from Thor or Superman. A Marvel Universe response from me is twofold:
1. Adamantium armor would be impossible to work with, upgrade or fix if something ever did damage it. Most Armor heroes and villains have a certain flexibility in their armor (a mesh strengthened by force fields in Iron Man's case) that adamantium couldn't provide. They would literally be like the slow lumbering knights of the 15th century. They would be too slow to affect anyone. How does Ultron do it you ask? He has a built in rearranger that allows him to make alterations and move freely. The rearranger and power core are the only non adamantium parts that can be destroyed (ie Johnny Storm goes Nova and takes them out stopping the robot.
2. Adamantium is very controlled by governments since the Ultron fiasco and it's very hard for anyone to get a supply large enough to make armor.
Patriot

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Ultron question... (1506)

Posted by Red Norvell on August 10, 1997 at 16:00:25 PDT
in reply to Re: Adamantium, yet again... (1505), posted by Patriot on August 10, 1997 at 15:48:44 PDT

>
> > Thanks for the welcome Patriot, its good to be here. And welcome back. I sure didn't expect my question about adamantium to spark such a debate but the information about Cap's shield has been much appreciated, thanks to all. However, I have another question. I understand that the vibranium/adamantium mixture used to create Cap's shield was an accident that cannot be duplicated again. However, why doesn't the scientific types i.e. Iron-Man, or Dr. Doom use adamantium in their armor? After all if adamantium can be bonded to Wolverine's bones it should be capable of bonding to another metal. Or (and I am going by Batroc's word here as I don't have the issue myself) Ultron-6 made his body out of the stuff. Maybe Iron-Man or Doom would not be able to make an entire suit of armor out of adamantium as they would have to have moveable joints. However, they should have the technology to create adamatium chest or face plates. Does anyone agree with me here? Any input on the creation of adamantium armor would be apprieciated.

> > An inquisitive Night Hawk

> One quick answer would be that no writer wants their hero that powerful. With armor like that, the hero wouldn't have to worry about taking a hit from Thor or Superman. A Marvel Universe response from me is twofold:
> 1. Adamantium armor would be impossible to work with, upgrade or fix if something ever did damage it. Most Armor heroes and villains have a certain flexibility in their armor (a mesh strengthened by force fields in Iron Man's case) that adamantium couldn't provide. They would literally be like the slow lumbering knights of the 15th century. They would be too slow to affect anyone. How does Ultron do it you ask? He has a built in rearranger that allows him to make alterations and move freely. The rearranger and power core are the only non adamantium parts that can be destroyed (ie Johnny Storm goes Nova and takes them out stopping the robot.
> 2. Adamantium is very controlled by governments since the Ultron fiasco and it's very hard for anyone to get a supply large enough to make armor.
> Patriot

I have an Avengers comic where Wonderman crushes Ultron's head rather easily. I forget which issue #, but it wasn't that old (mid 80's). To the best of my knowledge, that version of Ultron was made out of adamantium. How could Simon have done this? He wasn't that strong.

-Red Norvell

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Re: Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1507)

Posted by Falcon on August 10, 1997 at 18:07:34 PDT
in reply to Re: Reasonable Fighting American/Agent America talk . (1503), posted by David Medinnus on August 10, 1997 at 10:00:23 PDT


> Three is not MY definition of plenty; try a good dozen (and with your loose definition of knock-off, it should be pretty easy to fill):

> * Patriot
> * USAgent
> * Miss America
> * Fighting American (the original)
> * Agent America/Fighting American
> * Agent Liberty
> * The Super-Patriot
> * Major Force
> * Spirit of '76
> * Major Victory
> * Right-Winger & Left-Winger
> * Battlestar
> * Liberty Belle
> * Steel (DC, the dead Justice Leaguer, not the current)

There's also a character named Captain Kurtz who appeared in one of those Martha Washington goes to War books by Dark Horse comics. The character bore a very strong resemblance to Cap, the major differences being that he wore a golden helmet and the stripes on his abdomen ran horizontally.

Falcon

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Re: Adamantium, yet again... (1508)

Posted by Falcon on August 10, 1997 at 18:14:21 PDT
in reply to Re: Adamantium, yet again... (1505), posted by Patriot on August 10, 1997 at 15:48:44 PDT


>
> > Thanks for the welcome Patriot, its good to be here. And welcome back. I sure didn't expect my question about adamantium to spark such a debate but the information about Cap's shield has been much appreciated, thanks to all. However, I have another question. I understand that the vibranium/adamantium mixture used to create Cap's shield was an accident that cannot be duplicated again. However, why doesn't the scientific types i.e. Iron-Man, or Dr. Doom use adamantium in their armor? After all if adamantium can be bonded to Wolverine's bones it should be capable of bonding to another metal. Or (and I am going by Batroc's word here as I don't have the issue myself) Ultron-6 made his body out of the stuff. Maybe Iron-Man or Doom would not be able to make an entire suit of armor out of adamantium as they would have to have moveable joints. However, they should have the technology to create adamatium chest or face plates. Does anyone agree with me here? Any input on the creation of adamantium armor would be apprieciated.

> > An inquisitive Night Hawk

> One quick answer would be that no writer wants their hero that powerful. With armor like that, the hero wouldn't have to worry about taking a hit from Thor or Superman. A Marvel Universe response from me is twofold:
> 1. Adamantium armor would be impossible to work with, upgrade or fix if something ever did damage it. Most Armor heroes and villains have a certain flexibility in their armor (a mesh strengthened by force fields in Iron Man's case) that adamantium couldn't provide. They would literally be like the slow lumbering knights of the 15th century. They would be too slow to affect anyone. How does Ultron do it you ask? He has a built in rearranger that allows him to make alterations and move freely. The rearranger and power core are the only non adamantium parts that can be destroyed (ie Johnny Storm goes Nova and takes them out stopping the robot.
> 2. Adamantium is very controlled by governments since the Ultron fiasco and it's very hard for anyone to get a supply large enough to make armor.
> Patriot

I think I'd have to go with the explanation that adamantium is in extremely short supply and Stark likes to have several back-up suits in any case. I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the knights of medieval Europe being lumbering is a myth.

Falcon

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jamie (1509)

Posted by agent america on August 10, 1997 at 18:26:54 PDT
in reply to S.P.I.C.E. (1494), posted by Jamie on August 10, 1997 at 01:15:51 PDT


was agent america in judgment day 1 if so was it a big part

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Ultron's Head (1510)

Posted by Batroc on August 10, 1997 at 20:10:48 PDT

>>>This is in response to Red Norvell's earlier post on adamantium. I could not post a follow up for some reason.
>>>Wonder Man took Ultron's head off in a early West Coast Avengers. This was at a time when WCA writers were trying to showacase Wondy's strength and show he was in Thor's Class. Ultron's neck may be his weak point. It is the Hulk's most vulnerable part (In What If #31, Wolverine kills him by slicing his throat) and Iron Man is most vulnerable in his joints. I'm guessing that his neck was not Adamantium but another more plyable metal. However I was shocked to see Wondy rip his head off because Thor has jerked on his head a few times also. Of course, you might say that there have been so many incarantions of Ultron that this one was kind of a dud.
Just my thoughts. Batroc the Leaper

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Two Quick Points.... (1511)

Posted by Batroc on August 10, 1997 at 20:29:43 PDT
in reply to Re: Adamantium, Vibranium, Shaimium!! (1499), posted by Patriot on August 10, 1997 at 08:00:49 PDT

»
> > > > 1. Cap's Shield:
> > > > The shield cannot be destroyed by a molecular rearranger. The vibranium part of the shield absorbs the energy that attempts to devide the molecules. Magneto could not damage the shield for the same reason. Any magnetic force would be absorbed by the vibranium. This only works in the attempt of destroying the shield. Magneto can fling it around all he wants.Magneto is not powerful enough to affect adamantium on a molecular level. Although Mr Kubert did an excellent job pencilling X-Men #25, he made it look like Magneto liquified the metal. He did not. He simply pulled it from Logan's bones.
> > > > The only two individuals that have damaged the shield are Doom (with the Beyonder's power) and Thanos while wearing the Infinity Gauntlet. They overpowered the vibranium matrix with their neer infinite control over reality. The only other beings capable of this are the Celestials, Eternity, Death, the Living Tribunal and other neer infinates. Even the quasi cosmics like Galactus and Stranger cannot harm the shield.
> > > I'm sorry, but that's simply ridiculous. Galactus or the Stranger not being able to harm the shield? What ever you're on, cut the dose. :)
> > > Vibranium can be taken apart at the molecular level. It's made up of molecules, isn't it? No matter how dense, or odd, the matter is, it is still only molecules. Perhaps terran technology cannot muster the power, but the Silver Surfer could--easily. Cosmic energy works not only at the sub-molecular level--but the sub-atomic level! Everything in the universe was created from cosmic energy. Air, color, stars, nebulas--all of it. Think of it as Eternity's blood. The only way for the shield to resist cosmic power, is if it was forged outside the the Multiverse entirely.
> > > Galactus could create a billion shields--much, much, tougher than any vibranium/adamantium mix. Sorry, but it's true.
> > > -Red Norvell
> > >>>Good to have you back Patriot. Now concerning the Shield. I'm assuming your thoughts on this subject are your own, since you give few MU references. Personally, I beleive Magneto affected Wolverine's adamanium on a molecular level. First, Adamantium was introduced into the Marvel Universe with a molecular rearranger (Avengers #66) and secondly Ultron created vats of the stuff in Avengers #202. I think the fully powered Magneto could reduce it to ooze and forcibly remove it with enough effort. I also agree with Red that some cosmic powered beings could affect the Shield. Galactus with three square meals (planets) in him for sure.
> > This ability would depend upon the power of the cosmic being. Silver Surfer, maybe. Sue Richards, no way.
> > >>>This vibarnium, I could not find any solid references to its properties. I know it is impact absorbant and is mined in Wakanda. I thought there was some in Kazar's land, but I may be wrong. However, again I think it can be affected on a molecular level. For example, how did T'Challa make Cap a new finely crafted Shield? Not by banging a vibranium or adamanium hammer against vibranium ore. He had to melt, rearrange,or some how manipulate his vibranium ore. This is why i believe that if Magneto had Batroc' Brigade steal the shield and had a day or two to kill, he could reduce it to red, white, and blue colored ooze. He might also discover the correct mix and be able to replicate the shield. Remember I am talking about the Post Eric the Red, prior to Joseph, MAGNETO.
> > Ciao Batroc the Leaper
> I couldn't quote references to my thoughts as I don't have the MU book that described Cap's shield (lost with other childhood comics). I remember the weapons book stating that it was impervious to almost everything but the most cosmic of individuals. However, and this might not be worth much to you guys, I have its statistics from the Marvel Super Heroes RPG. These stats were put together by and consulted by most of the Marvel editing bullpin. They make it strong enough to withstand a nuclear blast, Galactus and Stranger. This freak metal is described as weighing less then Uru but being just as strong. The only thing to shatter Uru has been a Celestial I believe.
> Just a little MURPG lesson. Most of you know that strength classes in various MU books are described as Class 75 or Class 100. These classes were derived from the RPG and used in Marvel Handbooks. In the RPG, cosmic powered beings are devided in 3 classes: Class 1000, Class3000 and Class 5000. Cap's shield and Thor's hammer are Class 3000 weapons. Galactus and Stranger are only Class 1000 hitters. Celestials, Eternity, Beyonder et al are Class 5000 threats.
> I'm contacting two guys who have most of the Handbooks and might give me firm references. In the meantime, the RPG is accurate enough for me. My point is that there must be a reason that Marvel writers have only allowed the most powerful beings to destroy his shield.
> A Patriot on the defense.
1. I find it hard to believe that Galactus, the devourer of WORLDS, could not destroy a tiny Shield
2. Thor's uru hammer had fragments of his hammer chipped off in Journey Into Mystery #120.
The debate on Cap's Shield will never be empirically answered. We will all have our opinions. For that is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper

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Re: Ultron question... (1512)

Posted by Patriot on August 10, 1997 at 20:59:37 PDT
in reply to Ultron question... (1506), posted by Red Norvell on August 10, 1997 at 16:00:25 PDT


> >
> > > Thanks for the welcome Patriot, its good to be here. And welcome back. I sure didn't expect my question about adamantium to spark such a debate but the information about Cap's shield has been much appreciated, thanks to all. However, I have another question. I understand that the vibranium/adamantium mixture used to create Cap's shield was an accident that cannot be duplicated again. However, why doesn't the scientific types i.e. Iron-Man, or Dr. Doom use adamantium in their armor? After all if adamantium can be bonded to Wolverine's bones it should be capable of bonding to another metal. Or (and I am going by Batroc's word here as I don't have the issue myself) Ultron-6 made his body out of the stuff. Maybe Iron-Man or Doom would not be able to make an entire suit of armor out of adamantium as they would have to have moveable joints. However, they should have the technology to create adamatium chest or face plates. Does anyone agree with me here? Any input on the creation of adamantium armor would be apprieciated.

> > > An inquisitive Night Hawk

> > One quick answer would be that no writer wants their hero that powerful. With armor like that, the hero wouldn't have to worry about taking a hit from Thor or Superman. A Marvel Universe response from me is twofold:
> > 1. Adamantium armor would be impossible to work with, upgrade or fix if something ever did damage it. Most Armor heroes and villains have a certain flexibility in their armor (a mesh strengthened by force fields in Iron Man's case) that adamantium couldn't provide. They would literally be like the slow lumbering knights of the 15th century. They would be too slow to affect anyone. How does Ultron do it you ask? He has a built in rearranger that allows him to make alterations and move freely. The rearranger and power core are the only non adamantium parts that can be destroyed (ie Johnny Storm goes Nova and takes them out stopping the robot.
> > 2. Adamantium is very controlled by governments since the Ultron fiasco and it's very hard for anyone to get a supply large enough to make armor.
> > Patriot

> I have an Avengers comic where Wonderman crushes Ultron's head rather easily. I forget which issue #, but it wasn't that old (mid 80's). To the best of my knowledge, that version of Ultron was made out of adamantium. How could Simon have done this? He wasn't that strong.

> -Red Norvell

At the time, the writers were trying to state that Wondy was stronger than even Thor. I have a couple of references that say his fists hit like Thor's hammer not just Thor's fists. This was a very inconsistant time for Avengers. There was a battle where Wondy was mopping up the floor with Thor until Thor used the Hammer on him (WCA Annual #2). They were basically trying to make him the Superman of Marvel perhaps being even stronger than Hulk. However, before this time, he was never as good as Thor or Herc. I think the writers were trying to impress the readers with him taking Ultron's head (Maybe Ultron had a defective neck joint upon his rebuilt).
Patriot.

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Fighting American (1513)

Posted by Chad C. Trimble on August 10, 1997 at 21:33:55 PDT

I am not a big Liefield fan but I am ready for this new comic to come out. I have a little respect for him to do this because he was removed from Captain America before his time was up and he wants to finish the story. I hope that it is a good story because I am going to spend my 2.50 and pick it up. Well take it easy.

Chad C. Trimble

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fighting america (1514)

Posted by agent america on August 10, 1997 at 22:18:14 PDT

Has any read every read the first series. if so who was the villins how many issue. when ws it produce. of yeah was he in judgment day 1 if so was it a big part

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On to purely Cap discussions (1515)

Posted by Patriot on August 11, 1997 at 10:05:06 PDT

We've gotten away from Captain America topics lately but I've got a doosy. With Waid and Garney just around the corner, what would be some of the subjects you would like to see?
I'll start.
1. Like our esteemed moderator, I want Cap to take a FIRM stand against mutant oppression. I think the issue where he was taken through the minds of the psionics in warped versions of America would shake him into action (Remember when he saw the original X-Men led away like Jews by the Nazis?). He needs to deal with this issue.
2. I'd like to see more of Sharon and maybe Diamondback too. It would be great if Sharon actually got jealous of another woman (Whoops, that might sound too much like a Zena or Herc episode). She acts so cold that I think she needs something to heat her up.
3. An Invaders reunion much like the one in Namor (# 13??) would be awesome. Having Spitfire, Namor, Union Jack (Joey Chapman with the powers of the Pendragon), and Jim Hammond together again would be awesome. Maybe some of their old foes have come out of retirement or a new menace must be battled.
4. Just had a brain flash. What if the young, gorgeous Spitfire shows up to be a romantic interest. She was always in love with Steve and was quite upset over how much she had aged when he showed up to help out with Baron Blood. How would other interests like Sharon or Diamondback handle her sheer beauty, super powers and the shared experiences with Steve?

A Patriot wanting Cap to flourish to greatness once more.

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Re: On to purely Cap discussions (1516)

Posted by Falcon on August 11, 1997 at 11:44:55 PDT
in reply to On to purely Cap discussions (1515), posted by Patriot on August 11, 1997 at 10:05:06 PDT

> A Patriot wanting Cap to flourish to greatness once more.


Those would be good to see, along with Bernie Rosenthal (if she's not dead or something; what happened to her, anyway?). Also, what happened to the Viper, the Constrictor and the Serpent Society? I'd like for them to show up again, too. A story involving the Nomad might be interesting (if he isn't dead, either).

Falcon

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Nomad (1517)

Posted by Patriot on August 11, 1997 at 12:35:44 PDT
in reply to Re: On to purely Cap discussions (1516), posted by Falcon on August 11, 1997 at 11:44:55 PDT


> > A Patriot wanting Cap to flourish to greatness once more.

>
A story involving the Nomad might be interesting (if he isn't dead, either).

> Falcon

Nomad is back into suspended animation. He is one of my favorate MU characters. The world believes he is dead and only a couple of SHIELD agents know of his deep freeze. Read Nomad #25. It is a hard look at our society and extremists who want to make a change. The writer, Fabian Nieceza gives a one page write up on why he chose to take Jack out of the MU at the series' end. I thought that so much was done with him that I would LOVE to see him return.

A Patriot looking for a baby and some cool shades.

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On to purely Cap discussions, my two cents worth (1518)

Posted by Night Hawk on August 11, 1997 at 15:20:54 PDT

I have to agree with Patriot that an Invaders return would be most welcome, as would a possible romantic interest with Spitfire. However, along with standing against the anti-mutant bigots Cap should also be used as a vechicle to deal with many of the real world troubles that threaten our society. Things such as the rise of Neo-Nazism, gang crimes, and terrorism. I know that such issues have recently been dealt with in the current story line of Cap vs the Sons of the Serpent. However, I feel that Cap should sometimes deal with the everyday, but nonetheless real villan. The kind of person or group that would blow up the World Trade Center. Cap was created to deal with the real world problem of WWII. He is first and formost a soldier who at times was forced to get down and dirty fighting for a just cause. Marvel Comics should have Captain America dealing or continuing to deal with real problems that effect real Americans.

A realist Night Hawk.

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Re: The Fate Of Bernie (1519)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 11, 1997 at 15:34:28 PDT
in reply to Re: On to purely Cap discussions (1516), posted by Falcon on August 11, 1997 at 11:44:55 PDT


> Those would be good to see, along with Bernie Rosenthal (if she's not dead or something; what happened to her, anyway?).

Worse than dead; she's an attorney...

Last I saw, she was helping Diamondback with how to procede vis-a-vis Diamondback having drowned Snapdragon (extradition to AIM-land being a stupid idea).

-DM

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Re: On to purely Cap discussions (Long) (1520)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 11, 1997 at 15:43:03 PDT
in reply to On to purely Cap discussions (1515), posted by Patriot on August 11, 1997 at 10:05:06 PDT


> 1. Like our esteemed moderator, I want Cap to take a FIRM stand against mutant oppression. I think the issue where he was taken through the minds of the psionics in warped versions of America would shake him into action (Remember when he saw the original X-Men led away like Jews by the Nazis?). He needs to deal with this issue.

Obviously, I agree... :)

> 2. I'd like to see more of Sharon and maybe Diamondback too. It would be great if Sharon actually got jealous of another woman (Whoops, that might sound too much like a Zena or Herc episode). She acts so cold that I think she needs something to heat her up.

I'd like Diamondback back; Sharon has declared that her relationship (from a romantic standpoint) with Steve is over (and proved it with The Kiss). I don't think Waid intends her to be a romantic interest; I don't think Waid intends ANYONE rsn as a romantic interest.

One of the things about the Gruenwald run which bothered me was the post-Galactic Storm issue where Clint and Steve (and eventually Tony) end up in a bar, talking. Steve makes statements like "My personal life is such a failure that I've decided to not have one", which bother me from two standpoints:


  1. I don't like the idea of Steve giving up on anything, and
  2. I don't like the idea of there being no "Steve" separate from the costume. Steve deserves some time off once-'n-awhile (don't we all????).


> 3. An Invaders reunion much like the one in Namor (# 13??) would be awesome. Having Spitfire, Namor, Union Jack (Joey Chapman with the powers of the Pendragon), and Jim Hammond together again would be awesome. Maybe some of their old foes have come out of retirement or a new menace must be battled.

I'd like to see Steve spending time with his old friends as well, especially those who are part of the Invaders past, like Jacqui and Jim.

> 4. Just had a brain flash. What if the young, gorgeous Spitfire shows up to be a romantic interest. She was always in love with Steve and was quite upset over how much she had aged when he showed up to help out with Baron Blood. How would other interests like Sharon or Diamondback handle her sheer beauty, super powers and the shared experiences with Steve?

Since Rachel has a bit of an inferiority complex anyway (which I was getting real sick of, howevermuch I like Rachel), I suspect she'd quietly fade.

Hmmm....I like it, though. Always liked Jacqui.

-DM
> A Patriot wanting Cap to flourish to greatness once more.

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Re: Nomad (1521)

Posted by Falcon on August 11, 1997 at 16:07:06 PDT
in reply to Nomad (1517), posted by Patriot on August 11, 1997 at 12:35:44 PDT

> Nomad is back into suspended animation. He is one of my favorate MU characters. The world believes he is dead and only a couple of SHIELD agents know of his deep freeze. Read Nomad #25. It is a hard look at our society and extremists who want to make a change. The writer, Fabian Nieceza gives a one page write up on why he chose to take Jack out of the MU at the series' end. I thought that so much was done with him that I would LOVE to see him return.

> A Patriot looking for a baby and some cool shades.

Actually, that's one thing I hope they don't bring back. Cool shades, yes; baby, no. It's just extremely ludicrous to bring a baby with you into dangerous situations.

Falcon

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Re: On to purely Cap discussions (Long) (1522)

Posted by Falcon on August 11, 1997 at 16:12:19 PDT
in reply to Re: On to purely Cap discussions (Long) (1520), posted by David Medinnus on August 11, 1997 at 15:43:03 PDT


> One of the things about the Gruenwald run which bothered me was the post-Galactic Storm issue where Clint and Steve (and eventually Tony) end up in a bar, talking. Steve makes statements like "My personal life is such a failure that I've decided to not have one", which bother me from two standpoints:
>


    >
  1. I don't like the idea of Steve giving up on anything, and
    >
  2. I don't like the idea of there being no "Steve" separate from the costume. Steve deserves some time off once-'n-awhile (don't we all????).

    I agree with you on all your points, particularly this one. One of the things that bothers me is the portrayal of Cap as some sort of prude. For instance in the Rick Jones wedding issue (actually bachelor party issue) of the Hulk, Cap covers his eyes when the stag reel is being played. Maybe I'm wrong, but is this good characterization?

    Falcon

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Re: On to purely Cap discussions, my two cents worth (1523)

Posted by Rob on August 11, 1997 at 18:50:02 PDT
in reply to On to purely Cap discussions, my two cents worth (1518), posted by Night Hawk on August 11, 1997 at 15:20:54 PDT


> I have to agree with Patriot that an Invaders return would be most welcome, as would a possible romantic interest with Spitfire. However, along with standing against the anti-mutant bigots Cap should also be used as a vechicle to deal with many of the real world troubles that threaten our society. Things such as the rise of Neo-Nazism, gang crimes, and terrorism. I know that such issues have recently been dealt with in the current story line of Cap vs the Sons of the Serpent. However, I feel that Cap should sometimes deal with the everyday, but nonetheless real villan. The kind of person or group that would blow up the World Trade Center. Cap was created to deal with the real world problem of WWII. He is first and formost a soldier who at times was forced to get down and dirty fighting for a just cause. Marvel Comics should have Captain America dealing or continuing to deal with real problems that effect real Americans.

> A realist Night Hawk.

I agree that Cap should once again tackle real problems. During the whole O.J. thing, I thought it would have been a perfect time for Cap (possibly with the help of the Falcon) to address America's race problems. Since the beginning of this country (and before 1776), racism and racial divisions have been one of America's greatest challenges. I would find it much more interesting for Cap to handle the problems of the real world more than ludicrous super-villains trying to take over the world with robot armies, etc. Another problem Cap should face is the issue of American life -- are most Americans able to achieve the American Dream, or are they being let down by the American government and American businesses. Also, crime has become more prevalent today; as a crimefighter, Cap should stop and ask himself what has gone wrong. After all, if I had fought crime for several decades and the crime rate actually rose in those years, I'd be a bit concerned. Cap should also tackle drug abuse, another growing problem. Also, as you said, Cap should tackle the issue of terrorism. I can imagine a story where an American commits a terrorist act against his own country. Cap could go undercover and find out what the heck is going on. Or if it is a foreign terrorist, do some international investigation of it.

Now, here's a question. I seem to recall that back around 1987, the Superman titles used a fictional country (Quarac, i think) to symbolize places like Iraq and Iran. Should Cap's comic do something similar, create a character who symbolizes a well-known foreign leader like Saddam Hussein & the like, or should Cap's comic name the actual names and confront the real people (as it did during WW2, when Cap socked Hitler in the face on Cap #1)?

Rob

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Cap and the real world. (1524)

Posted by Patriot on August 11, 1997 at 19:22:36 PDT
in reply to Re: On to purely Cap discussions, my two cents worth (1523), posted by Rob on August 11, 1997 at 18:50:02 PDT

However, along with standing against the anti-mutant bigots Cap should also be used as a vechicle to deal with many of the real world troubles that threaten our society. Things such as the rise of Neo-Nazism, gang crimes, and terrorism. I know that such issues have recently been dealt with in the current story line of Cap vs the Sons of the Serpent. However, I feel that Cap should sometimes deal with the everyday, but nonetheless real villan. The kind of person or group that would blow up the World Trade Center. Cap was created to deal with the real world problem of WWII. He is first and formost a soldier who at times was forced to get down and dirty fighting for a just cause. Marvel Comics should have Captain America dealing or continuing to deal with real problems that effect real Americans.

> > A realist Night Hawk.

> I agree that Cap should once again tackle real problems. During the whole O.J. thing, I thought it would have been a perfect time for Cap (possibly with the help of the Falcon) to address America's race problems. Since the beginning of this country (and before 1776), racism and racial divisions have been one of America's greatest challenges. I would find it much more interesting for Cap to handle the problems of the real world more than ludicrous super-villains trying to take over the world with robot armies, etc. Another problem Cap should face is the issue of American life -- are most Americans able to achieve the American Dream, or are they being let down by the American government and American businesses. Also, crime has become more prevalent today; as a crimefighter, Cap should stop and ask himself what has gone wrong. After all, if I had fought crime for several decades and the crime rate actually rose in those years, I'd be a bit concerned. Cap should also tackle drug abuse, another growing problem. Also, as you said, Cap should tackle the issue of terrorism. I can imagine a story where an American commits a terrorist act against his own country. Cap could go undercover and find out what the heck is going on. Or if it is a foreign terrorist, do some international investigation of it.

> Rob

Both Rob and Night Hawk have brought up good points about facing real world issues. Cap did face the drug scene in " Streets of Poison" but I never felt it was handled correctly. He thought his own super soldier formula was a drug that he was addicted to. He had it purged from his body only to have it replicate itself in his blood once again. He also dealt with terrorism with Flag Smasher and Ultimatum.
In my oppinion, Nomad was the better hero of those downtrodden by the American Dream. He'd been stomped on by the best of them. I think you need a fallen hero to represent that section of America. Nomad was also better at depicting this because Fabian was younger than Grunwald and was more in tune with the cinicism of youth.
Hopefully Waid can bring better plotting to Cap dealing with real world issues.

Patriot.

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"Say you'll be there..." (1525)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 11, 1997 at 19:36:31 PDT
in reply to Re: S.P.I.C.E. ...If ya wanna be my.... (1502), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 10, 1997 at 09:41:15 PDT

> > S.P.I.C.E. is another of Rob Liefeld's cool creations for Awesome
> > Entertainment . Some say she is a copy off of Rikki Barnes a.k.a
> > Bucky .
> > I don't think so ! S.P.I.C.E. from what I hear, is going to have a way
> > bigger 'tude and is going to be a brat . Where did I hear this from ?
> > In Fighting American's Special Comic Con Edition .
> > On one of the pages, there is sloppy writing saying that S.P.I.C.E.
> > will call Fighting American stuff like " Old man ", " Pops ", and
> > " Grandpa " .
> > Now, in Rob Liefeld's run on Cap, I think that Rikki was very
> > respectful toward him, wouldn't you say ? Anyway, like FA,
> > S.P.I.C.E. is quite a bit older than Bucky !
> > So, tell me with a straight face that S.P.I.C.E. is a copy off of
> > the teenage Bucky in recent Cap issues !
> > Jamie
> > P.S. Also, Fighting American had a recent WAY cool costume
> > change ! >see Wizard # 73
> With this information in mind, I have two possible comments....
> 1) SPICE is a blatant rip off of the Jason Todd Robin.......
> or
> 2) SPICE is a blatant rip off or new member of a popular singing group....which one though???.....hmmmmm........ must be clove cause it leaves a bad taste in my mouth...
>
> Ned

#2) Which one? Posh? (personal favorite) Scary? Sexy? Sporty? Baby?

Albert, who hates the Spice Girls's music...

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Cap's personal life. (1526)

Posted by Batroc on August 11, 1997 at 19:43:39 PDT

>>>Cap's personal life especially his relationships with women have always left alot to be desired.
His true love Sharon evidently committed suicide, then returns to strongly dislike him. Bernie leaves him for lawschool and Rachel leaves him with no explanation.
That would be enough for any guy to have doubts. From the Stan Lee days, Cap has always been torn between his duty and his desire for freedom.
Another interesting note, he did not know how to dress for a date with Rachel (anyone remember that?) He also likes Big Band music.
>>>Cap has not drank in a long time and never in excess. His last smoke was in #110 and he has a strong regard for human life.
He is a throwback, an anachronism that has always had doubts about living in today's world. I think he is meant to appear a little out of place. \Batroc the Leaper#

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please read this post (1527)

Posted by stonecold on August 11, 1997 at 20:12:36 PDT
in reply to fighting america (1514), posted by agent america on August 10, 1997 at 22:18:14 PDT

> Has any read every read the first series. if so who was the villins how many issue. when ws it produce. of yeah was he in judgment day 1 if so was it a big part

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jack kirby fighting america (1528)

Posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war aka stonecold aka maverick 2 aka somethind else aka rodslaught aka re-gex aka kaboom aka youngblood aka chapel aka shaft aka badrock aka what am I gorgetting on August 11, 1997 at 21:48:53 PDT

what was his power and villians. when did he first appear how many issue were there. the first series. was there ever a second or third. can you find them in a tradeback

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jack kirby fighting america (1529)

Posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war aka stonecold aka maverick 2 else aka rodslaught aka re-gex aka kaboom aka youngblood aka chapel aka shaft aka badrock aka what am I forgetting on August 11, 1997 at 21:49:45 PDT

what was his power and villians. when did he first appear how many issue were there. the first series. was there ever a second or third. can you find them in a tradeback

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Re: On to purely Cap discussions (Long) (1530)

Posted by Rob on August 11, 1997 at 21:51:18 PDT
in reply to Re: On to purely Cap discussions (Long) (1522), posted by Falcon on August 11, 1997 at 16:12:19 PDT


> > One of the things about the Gruenwald run which bothered me was the post-Galactic Storm issue where Clint and Steve (and eventually Tony) end up in a bar, talking.

If you are talking about #401, that was a great issue! Lots of comic-strip cameos in that bar, if memory serves! And I loved the idea of giving a lecture to the Avengers like a real lecture...!!

> > Steve makes statements like "My personal life is such a failure that
I've decided to not have one", which bother me from two standpoints:
> >


    > >
  1. I don't like the idea of Steve giving up on anything, and
    > >
  2. I don't like the idea of there being no "Steve" separate from the costume. Steve deserves some time off once-'n-awhile (don't we all????).

    I agree! Somebody commented on this in the letters-page at the time,
    saying that if the Cap of #237 who tried to give himself a real life as
    Steve had seen the later Gruenwald Cap, he would have shot himself! And the editor remarked that Cap made the decision to be a better Cap rather than a failed Steve, or words to that effect. Well, I for one read comics for more than costumed clowns -- I want to see more of the man behind the mask and his normal supporting cast!! That includes his former neighbor Josh Cooper, one of my favorites. I think Cap once said (in #246) that the world needed more Josh Coopers and less Caps! Apparently Marvel disagrees with their own hero, thinking we need a zillion Caps and no Josh Coopers!

    > I agree with you on all your points, particularly this one. One of the
    things that bothers me is the portrayal of Cap as some sort of prude. For
    instance in the Rick Jones wedding issue (actually bachelor party issue) of the Hulk, Cap covers his eyes when the stag reel is being played. Maybe I'm wrong, but is this good characterization?

    > Falcon

    I don't have that issue, but I remember seeing that somewhere. I happen to think that Cap would have done more than cover his eyes; he would have walked out of the room! Cap is an old-fashioned guy. He thought Indiana Jones was a poor role model for youth (#268), and didn't appreciate its supposed old-time movie serial appeal. He also worried about pro-wrestling's impact on youngsters around the same time, but concluded it was okay if it provided good role models. And he tends to call women "ma'am," out of respect. I think Cap, being an older fellow, has old-fashioned values and would be disgusted by a pornographic film. He wouldn't simply cover his eyes, I think...he would walk out of the room thinking how terrible it was. The same way Colossus reacted to some girlie magazines he saw at a newstand in Marvel Comics Presents #11(?), commenting on how Americans abused their right to free speech. That's my opinion of how Cap would react.

    Rob

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This is my new name tell me what I am forgetting and awesome comics (1531)

Posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war on August 11, 1997 at 21:55:01 PDT

They are not making a avengers rip off but a jla which marvel has.

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RE: Cap and the real world... (1532)

Posted by Night Hawk on August 11, 1997 at 23:22:03 PDT

Patriot, I agree that Nomad is a good example of the underdog trying to fight for the neglected or down trodden. However, the image or message is even more powerful when the most elite superhero has to climb down from the lofty hights and deal with the mother who has just lost her kid to a drive by shooting. To the family and friends that have lost a loved one to violence because he or she was gay, or a different race, or religion.
I don't think that every issue should deal with these topics. However, I think that there should some issues dedicated to the real world. And these stories should be well written, hard hitting with a powerful message.
To Rob I have the Superman issue that you mentioned I forget what number it is, and as always with DC they use fake names. I think that Marvel should continue to use proper names no matter the circumstances. I strongly believe that we shouldn't sugar coat or hide the truth. If a country, group, or even a lone individual commits an act of terrorism or violence of any type then we should call them on it and let them know that we are not going to tolerate it.

A Night Hawk hunting for truth and justice

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Re: jack kirby fighting america (1533)

Posted by Rob on August 11, 1997 at 23:50:23 PDT
in reply to jack kirby fighting america (1529), posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war aka stonecold aka maverick 2 else aka rodslaught aka re-gex aka kaboom aka youngblood aka chapel aka shaft aka badrock aka what am I forgetting on August 11, 1997 at 21:49:45 PDT


> what was his power and villians. when did he first appear how many issue were there. the first series. was there ever a second or third. can you find them in a tradeback

Fighting American ran for seven issues, from April/May 1954 to April/May 1955. (This was the very same month Marvel revived their Golden-Age superheroes, by the way.) Harvey Comics published a one-issue reprint of it in 1966. I believe that Marvel published a tradeback of the stories in the 1990s. I have not read any Fighting American stories, but I think I read that it was a satire, not strictly straight superhero stuff. A great time for that, too, during the McCarthy era.

Rob

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The Cover for Cap #12 aka the Next Issue! (1534)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 12, 1997 at 00:58:59 PDT

http://www.homage.com/html/cap_12_cvr.jpg

Duuuuuhhh...I wonder who he's fighting????


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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A man from the 40's (1535)

Posted by Patriot on August 12, 1997 at 06:17:51 PDT
in reply to Cap's personal life. (1526), posted by Batroc on August 11, 1997 at 19:43:39 PDT


> Another interesting note, he did not know how to dress for a date with Rachel (anyone remember that?) He also likes Big Band music.
> >>>Cap has not drank in a long time and never in excess. His last smoke was in #110 and he has a strong regard for human life.
> He is a throwback, an anachronism that has always had doubts about living in today's world. I think he is meant to appear a little out of place. \Batroc the Leaper#

While Cap should look out of place, I think people started looking at him through rose colored glasses. Realistically, a man thawed out from the Forties would smoke lke crazy, love big band music, and wouldn't balk so much at skantily clad women (they had pin-up girls, sex symbols and nudie films overseas in WW II). This man would be much more heavy handed beating up criminals and squeezing them for info (this is what American cops did all the time. There was no miranda rights). His heroes would have been The Untouchables and Cowboys like Wyatt Earp. He would be much more heavy handed than the milder of MU heroes. He would not treat women as equals and might always try to protect them in combat so they wouldn't get hurt.
No, I don't think Cap should act like the person I just described! I'm just demonstrating that while Cap is out of his time, he should not be seen as a prude or a complete boy scout. The Marvel writers seem to pick only the Shiny, Happy Qualities when making him a man from WW II. I think the way he was written in Robinson's Tales of Suspence was good. However I've liked everything Waid did with him and I can't wait for more.

Patriot.

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Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1536)

Posted by NovaOO on August 12, 1997 at 11:00:25 PDT
in reply to RE: Cap and the real world... (1532), posted by Night Hawk on August 11, 1997 at 23:22:03 PDT

> Patriot, I agree that Nomad is a good example of the underdog trying to fight for the neglected or down trodden. However, the image or message is even more powerful when the most elite superhero has to climb down from the lofty hights and deal with the mother who has just lost her kid to a drive by shooting. To the family and friends that have lost a loved one to violence because he or she was gay, or a different race, or religion.
My theory on this is get Fabian Nicieza to write it. Issue # 6 of the Night Thrasher series was one of the best race-related issues I have ever read in a comic. For those of you who didn't read it, two gangs(one black and one white) are at war over some issue..turf, race, it doesn't matter since it all comes down to society. They are going to be in a brawl. Thrasher and Rage take two members of the gangs and face them off against each other and tell them to go ahead and kill each other. They back down because its no longer one side against the other, its one person against the other, and they don't have the stomach for it. I know that my synopsis does not do justice to the story but go find a copy and read it. Its how an issue story should be written.
> I don't think that every issue should deal with these topics. However, I think that there should some issues dedicated to the real world. And these stories should be well written, hard hitting with a powerful message.
I agree with Night Hawk...Happy belated anniversary BTW.
To have any comic focus on a real world issue every issue would make it preachy, but if its well written, you may learn something without knowing it.

> To Rob I have the Superman issue that you mentioned I forget what number it is, and as always with DC they use fake names. I think that Marvel should continue to use proper names no matter the circumstances. I strongly believe that we shouldn't sugar coat or hide the truth. If a country, group, or even a lone individual commits an act of terrorism or violence of any type then we should call them on it and let them know that we are not going to tolerate it.
My one problem with your arguement. Comics are a form of entertainment that can span the generations. DC, by using a fictional country that has a basis in reality allowed future generations to relate to the story. There will always be a terrorist nation in the world, just because its Iraq this decade, whose to say it won't be France in the 21st century...who knows maybe euroDisney is their breeding ground. And if you focus on let's say...Timothy McVeigh. If they were to use his name in a story about terrorism, they are focus more on the criminal and less on the crime. The issue isn't Iraq, or McVeigh, or Gotti, or Hussein, its Terrorism, Drugs, Megalomaniacs or Alcholism. Its things that people can relate to, not the people that are in our face this year. Example, for the life of me, I can't remember the name of the Heaven's Gate nut but I know that the issue is cults.
A NovaOO hunting for entertainment and knowledge

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Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1537)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 12, 1997 at 11:22:29 PDT
in reply to Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1536), posted by NovaOO on August 12, 1997 at 11:00:25 PDT

> > Patriot, I agree that Nomad is a good example of the underdog trying to fight for the neglected or down trodden. However, the image or message is even more powerful when the most elite superhero has to climb down from the lofty hights and deal with the mother who has just lost her kid to a drive by shooting. To the family and friends that have lost a loved one to violence because he or she was gay, or a different race, or religion.
> My theory on this is get Fabian Nicieza to write it. Issue # 6 of the Night Thrasher series was one of the best race-related issues I have ever read in a comic. For those of you who didn't read it, two gangs(one black and one white) are at war over some issue..turf, race, it doesn't matter since it all comes down to society. They are going to be in a brawl. Thrasher and Rage take two members of the gangs and face them off against each other and tell them to go ahead and kill each other. They back down because its no longer one side against the other, its one person against the other, and they don't have the stomach for it. I know that my synopsis does not do justice to the story but go find a copy and read it. Its how an issue story should be written.
> > I don't think that every issue should deal with these topics. However, I think that there should some issues dedicated to the real world. And these stories should be well written, hard hitting with a powerful message.
> I agree with Night Hawk...Happy belated anniversary BTW.
> To have any comic focus on a real world issue every issue would make it preachy, but if its well written, you may learn something without knowing it.

> > To Rob I have the Superman issue that you mentioned I forget what number it is, and as always with DC they use fake names. I think that Marvel should continue to use proper names no matter the circumstances. I strongly believe that we shouldn't sugar coat or hide the truth. If a country, group, or even a lone individual commits an act of terrorism or violence of any type then we should call them on it and let them know that we are not going to tolerate it.
> My one problem with your arguement. Comics are a form of entertainment that can span the generations. DC, by using a fictional country that has a basis in reality allowed future generations to relate to the story. There will always be a terrorist nation in the world, just because its Iraq this decade, whose to say it won't be France in the 21st century...who knows maybe euroDisney is their breeding ground. And if you focus on let's say...Timothy McVeigh. If they were to use his name in a story about terrorism, they are focus more on the criminal and less on the crime. The issue isn't Iraq, or McVeigh, or Gotti, or Hussein, its Terrorism, Drugs, Megalomaniacs or Alcholism. Its things that people can relate to, not the people that are in our face this year. Example, for the life of me, I can't remember the name of the Heaven's Gate nut but I know that the issue is cults.
> A NovaOO hunting for entertainment and knowledge

I think that Cap would be great on the Real World......he would set those immature kids straight.....but isn't he too old????

Ned

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aget america (1538)

Posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war on August 12, 1997 at 18:32:11 PDT

It might be in my comicsbook stroe tommorrow I will poast spoilers. I gave captain america 11 1 out of 100 stars like every issue of heroes reborn after 6

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Re: aget america (1539)

Posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka waraka stonecold aka maverick 2 else aka rodslaught aka re-gex aka kaboom aka what am I gorgetting on August 12, 1997 at 18:34:19 PDT
in reply to aget america (1538), posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war on August 12, 1997 at 18:32:11 PDT

> It might be in my comicsbook stroe tommorrow I will poast spoilers. I gave captain america 11 1 out of 100 stars like every issue of heroes reborn after 6

...

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Re: aget america (1540)

Posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war aka stonecold aka maverick 2 else aka rodslaught aka re-gex aka kaboom aka what am I forgetting on August 12, 1997 at 18:35:26 PDT
in reply to aget america (1538), posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war on August 12, 1997 at 18:32:11 PDT

> It might be in my comicsbook stroe tommorrow I will poast spoilers. I gave captain america 11 1 out of 100 stars like every issue of heroes reborn after 6

...

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Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1541)

Posted by Night Hawk on August 12, 1997 at 20:28:43 PDT
in reply to Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1536), posted by NovaOO on August 12, 1997 at 11:00:25 PDT

> > Patriot, I agree that Nomad is a good example of the underdog trying to fight for the neglected or down trodden. However, the image or message is even more powerful when the most elite superhero has to climb down from the lofty hights and deal with the mother who has just lost her kid to a drive by shooting. To the family and friends that have lost a loved one to violence because he or she was gay, or a different race, or religion.
> My theory on this is get Fabian Nicieza to write it. Issue # 6 of the Night Thrasher series was one of the best race-related issues I have ever read in a comic. For those of you who didn't read it, two gangs(one black and one white) are at war over some issue..turf, race, it doesn't matter since it all comes down to society. They are going to be in a brawl. Thrasher and Rage take two members of the gangs and face them off against each other and tell them to go ahead and kill each other. They back down because its no longer one side against the other, its one person against the other, and they don't have the stomach for it. I know that my synopsis does not do justice to the story but go find a copy and read it. Its how an issue story should be written.
> > I don't think that every issue should deal with these topics. However, I think that there should some issues dedicated to the real world. And these stories should be well written, hard hitting with a powerful message.
> I agree with Night Hawk...Happy belated anniversary BTW.
> To have any comic focus on a real world issue every issue would make it preachy, but if its well written, you may learn something without knowing it.

> > To Rob I have the Superman issue that you mentioned I forget what number it is, and as always with DC they use fake names. I think that Marvel should continue to use proper names no matter the circumstances. I strongly believe that we shouldn't sugar coat or hide the truth. If a country, group, or even a lone individual commits an act of terrorism or violence of any type then we should call them on it and let them know that we are not going to tolerate it.
> My one problem with your arguement. Comics are a form of entertainment that can span the generations. DC, by using a fictional country that has a basis in reality allowed future generations to relate to the story. There will always be a terrorist nation in the world, just because its Iraq this decade, whose to say it won't be France in the 21st century...who knows maybe euroDisney is their breeding ground. And if you focus on let's say...Timothy McVeigh. If they were to use his name in a story about terrorism, they are focus more on the criminal and less on the crime. The issue isn't Iraq, or McVeigh, or Gotti, or Hussein, its Terrorism, Drugs, Megalomaniacs or Alcholism. Its things that people can relate to, not the people that are in our face this year. Example, for the life of me, I can't remember the name of the Heaven's Gate nut but I know that the issue is cults.
> A NovaOO hunting for entertainment and knowledge

Sure comics are a form of entertainment. However, many entertainment industries have used varrious real world enemys. Cap originally fought Nazi soldiers. Every movie and book to come out of the forties was against the evil German or Japanese empires. In the fifties to early eighties our attentions were turned to the Cold War. How many Russians did James Bond take out? In the late eighties we turned to the drug smuglers of Columbia, or the political arena of South Africa i.e. Lethal Weapon 2. However, I find it somewhat ironic that in this decade that Hollywood seems to be returning to older villians. In Golden Eye for example bad Russians attempt to throw the world into economic chaos. In Air Force One bad Russians hijack the President's plane.
I know that I used several movies to illustrate my example of real world villans, but it and T.V. are the dominate form of entertainment. However, comics like T.V., movies or novels shouldn't be afraid to to use what is out there. Often the truth makes a far more interesting, entertaining, or even horrific story than fiction.

"All the world is a stage..." A Bard quoting Night Hawk

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Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1542)

Posted by PeterParker on August 12, 1997 at 20:31:57 PDT
in reply to Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1537), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 12, 1997 at 11:22:29 PDT

> > > Patriot, I agree that Nomad is a good example of the underdog trying to fight for the neglected or down trodden. However, the image or message is even more powerful when the most elite superhero has to climb down from the lofty hights and deal with the mother who has just lost her kid to a drive by shooting. To the family and friends that have lost a loved one to violence because he or she was gay, or a different race, or religion.
> > My theory on this is get Fabian Nicieza to write it. Issue # 6 of the Night Thrasher series was one of the best race-related issues I have ever read in a comic. For those of you who didn't read it, two gangs(one black and one white) are at war over some issue..turf, race, it doesn't matter since it all comes down to society. They are going to be in a brawl. Thrasher and Rage take two members of the gangs and face them off against each other and tell them to go ahead and kill each other. They back down because its no longer one side against the other, its one person against the other, and they don't have the stomach for it. I know that my synopsis does not do justice to the story but go find a copy and read it. Its how an issue story should be written.
> > > I don't think that every issue should deal with these topics. However, I think that there should some issues dedicated to the real world. And these stories should be well written, hard hitting with a powerful message.
> > I agree with Night Hawk...Happy belated anniversary BTW.
> > To have any comic focus on a real world issue every issue would make it preachy, but if its well written, you may learn something without knowing it.

> > > To Rob I have the Superman issue that you mentioned I forget what number it is, and as always with DC they use fake names. I think that Marvel should continue to use proper names no matter the circumstances. I strongly believe that we shouldn't sugar coat or hide the truth. If a country, group, or even a lone individual commits an act of terrorism or violence of any type then we should call them on it and let them know that we are not going to tolerate it.
> > My one problem with your arguement. Comics are a form of entertainment that can span the generations. DC, by using a fictional country that has a basis in reality allowed future generations to relate to the story. There will always be a terrorist nation in the world, just because its Iraq this decade, whose to say it won't be France in the 21st century...who knows maybe euroDisney is their breeding ground. And if you focus on let's say...Timothy McVeigh. If they were to use his name in a story about terrorism, they are focus more on the criminal and less on the crime. The issue isn't Iraq, or McVeigh, or Gotti, or Hussein, its Terrorism, Drugs, Megalomaniacs or Alcholism. Its things that people can relate to, not the people that are in our face this year. Example, for the life of me, I can't remember the name of the Heaven's Gate nut but I know that the issue is cults.
> > A NovaOO hunting for entertainment and knowledge

> I think that Cap would be great on the Real World......he would set those immature kids straight.....but isn't he too old????

> Ned

Too old?! Captian America is only in his late twenties to early thirties. *thinking* Definitely late twenties. He fought for America in the 40's, then was frozen. And since the inception of "the age of heroes" (the first appearance of the Fantastic Four) is about 10 years, according to Marvel's "Flashback" series, that would make Steve Rogers around 28 or 29. Maaaaaaybe 30-32.

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Hey, anyone!! (1543)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 12, 1997 at 21:03:20 PDT

Anyone got a decent Cap or Cap villain image so Sam can make a new banner?

Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

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Delurking to be rude (1544)

Posted by Sledge on August 13, 1997 at 01:37:12 PDT

I've been lurking on this message board for around 6 months. Never had much to say until now. I know it's not my place and I'm not a regular contributor to the discussion here, but I've got something to say.

What does Fighting American or Agent America have to do with Captain America? Well, they have a word in their names in common, they're patriotic heroes, and that's about it.

What I'm getting at here is this is a message board for Captain America, so why are messages popping up all over about non-Captain America topics?

Some of you will find my comments rude and out of line. I apologize. But when I come to a message board of a particular topic it's nice to see it being discussed instead of ignored.

My apologies again, but it's really annoying.

-=Sledge=-

Host = line29.si-net.com (208.196.38.43)



Board discussions. (1545)

Posted by Patriot on August 13, 1997 at 06:36:59 PDT
in reply to Delurking to be rude (1544), posted by Sledge on August 13, 1997 at 01:37:12 PDT


> I've been lurking on this message board for around 6 months. Never had much to say until now. I know it's not my place and I'm not a regular contributor to the discussion here, but I've got something to say.

> What does Fighting American or Agent America have to do with Captain America? Well, they have a word in their names in common, they're patriotic heroes, and that's about it.

> What I'm getting at here is this is a message board for Captain America, so why are messages popping up all over about non-Captain America topics?

> Some of you will find my comments rude and out of line. I apologize. But when I come to a message board of a particular topic it's nice to see it being discussed instead of ignored.

> My apologies again, but it's really annoying.

> -=Sledge=-

I don't think you're being rude and I agree with your points. I have been trying to keep the topics lately to a Cap issue with my most recent posts. The unfortunate commonality among the three characters is Rob Liefeld. Some people think it's appropriate to discuss FA and AA as they feel Liefeld should never have been pulled off Cap (I assure you that I am not one of them). While I enjoy Jamie's discussions and defences on Liefeld, his is the only Pro Liefeld oppinion I listen to. The others don't make their points clear enough or back up the statements they make.
I think that AA and FA should not be discussed here and that Liefeld fans should restrict their discussions to his run on CAPTAIN AMERICA. The board should be used for Cap discussions or Cap related issues (Nomad, Invaders, Diamondback, etc).

Patriot.

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I don't but what about... (1546)

Posted by Patriot on August 13, 1997 at 06:40:49 PDT
in reply to Hey, anyone!! (1543), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 12, 1997 at 21:03:20 PDT


> Anyone got a decent Cap or Cap villain image so Sam can make a new banner?


> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

What about Garney's cover shot of Steve opening his shirt Superman style. I like it due to the tribute and it's one of the only covers showing Steve instead of Cap.

Patriot

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Re: aget america (1547)

Posted by Patriot on August 13, 1997 at 06:43:32 PDT
in reply to aget america (1538), posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war on August 12, 1997 at 18:32:11 PDT


> It might be in my comicsbook stroe tommorrow I will poast spoilers. I gave captain america 11 1 out of 100 stars like every issue of heroes reborn after 6

Could you please only post one code name. It wastes a lot of board space.

Patriot

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)



Re: Board discussions. (1548)

Posted by Falcon on August 13, 1997 at 07:43:52 PDT
in reply to Board discussions. (1545), posted by Patriot on August 13, 1997 at 06:36:59 PDT

>
> > I've been lurking on this message board for around 6 months. Never had much to say until now. I know it's not my place and I'm not a regular contributor to the discussion here, but I've got something to say.


> > What does Fighting American or Agent America have to do with Captain America? Well, they have a word in their names in common, they're patriotic heroes, and that's about it.


> > What I'm getting at here is this is a message board for Captain America, so why are messages popping up all over about non-Captain America topics?


> > Some of you will find my comments rude and out of line. I apologize. But when I come to a message board of a particular topic it's nice to see it being discussed instead of ignored.


> > My apologies again, but it's really annoying.


> > -=Sledge=-


> I don't think you're being rude and I agree with your points. I have been trying to keep the topics lately to a Cap issue with my most recent posts. The unfortunate commonality among the three characters is Rob Liefeld. Some people think it's appropriate to discuss FA and AA as they feel Liefeld should never have been pulled off Cap (I assure you that I am not one of them). While I enjoy Jamie's discussions and defences on Liefeld, his is the only Pro Liefeld oppinion I listen to. The others don't make their points clear enough or back up the statements they make.
> I think that AA and FA should not be discussed here and that Liefeld fans should restrict their discussions to his run on CAPTAIN AMERICA. The board should be used for Cap discussions or Cap related issues (Nomad, Invaders, Diamondback, etc).


> Patriot.
>


But sometimes comparisons between Cap and his imitators or contemporaries are discussed.

Falcon

Host = mpngate5.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.53)



This is why we talk about him (1549)

Posted by fighting america/agent america on August 13, 1997 at 09:43:42 PDT
in reply to Re: Board discussions. (1548), posted by Falcon on August 13, 1997 at 07:43:52 PDT


who created cap? who created fighhting america?

who updated cap? who updated fighting america?

who has girl sidekicks?
who has a villin name skull?
Who hates rob no one complains about people trashing him?
If there was a us agent comic would you talk about that?

But does anyone talk about suprme on the superman board or fisherman on aquaman or glory on wonderwomen or doctor twilight on batman no. but people talk about this team on the avengers when it is jla rip off. I think we need alvaro should make a imange or any comic board

Host = pm3-28.wcoil.com (206.230.70.110)



Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1550)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 13, 1997 at 11:08:30 PDT
in reply to Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1542), posted by PeterParker on August 12, 1997 at 20:31:57 PDT

> > > > Patriot, I agree that Nomad is a good example of the underdog trying to fight for the neglected or down trodden. However, the image or message is even more powerful when the most elite superhero has to climb down from the lofty hights and deal with the mother who has just lost her kid to a drive by shooting. To the family and friends that have lost a loved one to violence because he or she was gay, or a different race, or religion.
> > > My theory on this is get Fabian Nicieza to write it. Issue # 6 of the Night Thrasher series was one of the best race-related issues I have ever read in a comic. For those of you who didn't read it, two gangs(one black and one white) are at war over some issue..turf, race, it doesn't matter since it all comes down to society. They are going to be in a brawl. Thrasher and Rage take two members of the gangs and face them off against each other and tell them to go ahead and kill each other. They back down because its no longer one side against the other, its one person against the other, and they don't have the stomach for it. I know that my synopsis does not do justice to the story but go find a copy and read it. Its how an issue story should be written.
> > > > I don't think that every issue should deal with these topics. However, I think that there should some issues dedicated to the real world. And these stories should be well written, hard hitting with a powerful message.
> > > I agree with Night Hawk...Happy belated anniversary BTW.
> > > To have any comic focus on a real world issue every issue would make it preachy, but if its well written, you may learn something without knowing it.

> > > > To Rob I have the Superman issue that you mentioned I forget what number it is, and as always with DC they use fake names. I think that Marvel should continue to use proper names no matter the circumstances. I strongly believe that we shouldn't sugar coat or hide the truth. If a country, group, or even a lone individual commits an act of terrorism or violence of any type then we should call them on it and let them know that we are not going to tolerate it.
> > > My one problem with your arguement. Comics are a form of entertainment that can span the generations. DC, by using a fictional country that has a basis in reality allowed future generations to relate to the story. There will always be a terrorist nation in the world, just because its Iraq this decade, whose to say it won't be France in the 21st century...who knows maybe euroDisney is their breeding ground. And if you focus on let's say...Timothy McVeigh. If they were to use his name in a story about terrorism, they are focus more on the criminal and less on the crime. The issue isn't Iraq, or McVeigh, or Gotti, or Hussein, its Terrorism, Drugs, Megalomaniacs or Alcholism. Its things that people can relate to, not the people that are in our face this year. Example, for the life of me, I can't remember the name of the Heaven's Gate nut but I know that the issue is cults.
> > > A NovaOO hunting for entertainment and knowledge

> > I think that Cap would be great on the Real World......he would set those immature kids straight.....but isn't he too old????

> > Ned

> Too old?! Captian America is only in his late twenties to early thirties. *thinking* Definitely late twenties. He fought for America in the 40's, then was frozen. And since the inception of "the age of heroes" (the first appearance of the Fantastic Four) is about 10 years, according to Marvel's "Flashback" series, that would make Steve Rogers around 28 or 29. Maaaaaaybe 30-32.

Yeah, but the Real World has an age limit of 25.....Cap is too old...

Host = 155.42.31.199 (155.42.31.199)



Re: aget america (1551)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 13, 1997 at 11:09:47 PDT
in reply to Re: aget america (1547), posted by Patriot on August 13, 1997 at 06:43:32 PDT

>
> > It might be in my comicsbook stroe tommorrow I will poast spoilers. I gave captain america 11 1 out of 100 stars like every issue of heroes reborn after 6

> Could you please only post one code name. It wastes a lot of board space.

> Patriot

....and it is kind of annoying......

Host = 155.42.31.199 (155.42.31.199)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1552)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 13, 1997 at 11:11:27 PDT
in reply to This is why we talk about him (1549), posted by fighting america/agent america on August 13, 1997 at 09:43:42 PDT

>
> who created cap? who created fighhting america?

> who updated cap? who updated fighting america?

> who has girl sidekicks?
> who has a villin name skull?
> Who hates rob no one complains about people trashing him?
> If there was a us agent comic would you talk about that?

> But does anyone talk about suprme on the superman board or fisherman on aquaman or glory on wonderwomen or doctor twilight on batman no. but people talk about this team on the avengers when it is jla rip off. I think we need alvaro should make a imange or any comic board

.....um...I'm glad you...ah cleared that up???

Host = 155.42.31.199 (155.42.31.199)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1553)

Posted by Bubba2 on August 13, 1997 at 11:18:13 PDT
in reply to This is why we talk about him (1549), posted by fighting america/agent america on August 13, 1997 at 09:43:42 PDT

>
> who created cap? who created fighhting america?

> who updated cap? who updated fighting america?

> who has girl sidekicks?
> who has a villin name skull?
> Who hates rob no one complains about people trashing him?
> If there was a us agent comic would you talk about that?

> But does anyone talk about suprme on the superman board or fisherman on aquaman or glory on wonderwomen or doctor twilight on batman no. but people talk about this team on the avengers when it is jla rip off. I think we need alvaro should make a imange or any comic board

By that logic, we should spend most of our time talking about Jack Kirby or Rob Liefeld. Neither of whom are currently working on Captain America, the topic of this board! Now, as for the similarities between Rob's so-called Fighting American and Cap, well, Rob has made it pretty clear that he couldn't come up with something original and decided to recycle his lousy (and unused) Cap scripts. Just once I'd like to see Rob do something original or tasteful. Oh well!

Happy Birthday,

Bubba2

Host = leo-percer.baylor.edu (129.62.3.126)



Re: I don't but what about... (1554)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 11:52:58 PDT
in reply to I don't but what about... (1546), posted by Patriot on August 13, 1997 at 06:40:49 PDT

>
> > Anyone got a decent Cap or Cap villain image so Sam can make a new banner?

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> What about Garney's cover shot of Steve opening his shirt Superman style. I like it due to the tribute and it's one of the only covers showing Steve instead of Cap.

> Patriot

Ach!! I can't find the thing!! I coulda' swore I saw it on some page!! Anyone know where it is???

Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-11.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.43)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1555)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 13, 1997 at 12:01:04 PDT
in reply to This is why we talk about him (1549), posted by fighting america/agent america on August 13, 1997 at 09:43:42 PDT

>
> who created cap? who created fighhting america?

Jack Kirby

> who updated cap? who updated fighting america?

Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

> who has girl sidekicks?

Batman (from the Miller series), and HR Cap.

> who has a villin name skull?

Nobody.

> Who hates rob no one complains about people trashing him?

Most of the people on the board have negative opinions of RL.

> If there was a us agent comic would you talk about that?

Nope, not unless it was a Cap-related question.

> But does anyone talk about suprme on the superman board or fisherman on aquaman or glory on wonderwomen or doctor twilight on batman no. but people talk about this team on the avengers when it is jla rip off. I think we need alvaro should make a imange or any comic board

I assume this rather disjointed sentence is meant to imply that the board needs a moderator. It has one. Me. And unless something is wildly off-topic I leave it alone. And because Agent America/Fighting American as being done by RL is a reuse of his HR Cap ideas/artwork/concepts, I feel its fair game for discussion and criticism.

-DM

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Re: Hey, anyone!! (1556)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 13, 1997 at 12:02:47 PDT
in reply to Hey, anyone!! (1543), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 12, 1997 at 21:03:20 PDT

> Anyone got a decent Cap or Cap villain image so Sam can make a new banner?

http://www.sigma.net/capt_am/images/

Have a field day... :)

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)



Re: This is my new name tell me what I am forgetting and awesome comics (1557)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 13, 1997 at 12:05:17 PDT
in reply to This is my new name tell me what I am forgetting and awesome comics (1531), posted by fighting america aka agent america aka man-thing aka war on August 11, 1997 at 21:55:01 PDT

Please shorten your name.

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1558)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 12:43:57 PDT
in reply to Re: This is why we talk about him (1553), posted by Bubba2 on August 13, 1997 at 11:18:13 PDT

> >
> > who created cap? who created fighhting america?

> > who updated cap? who updated fighting america?

> > who has girl sidekicks?
> > who has a villin name skull?
> > Who hates rob no one complains about people trashing him?
> > If there was a us agent comic would you talk about that?

> > But does anyone talk about suprme on the superman board or fisherman on aquaman or glory on wonderwomen or doctor twilight on batman no. but people talk about this team on the avengers when it is jla rip off. I think we need alvaro should make a imange or any comic board

> By that logic, we should spend most of our time talking about Jack Kirby or Rob Liefeld. Neither of whom are currently working on Captain America, the topic of this board! Now, as for the similarities between Rob's so-called Fighting American and Cap, well, Rob has made it pretty clear that he couldn't come up with something original and decided to recycle his lousy (and unused) Cap scripts. Just once I'd like to see Rob do something original or tasteful. Oh well!

> Happy Birthday,

> Bubba2

"Original","tasteful", and "Rob Liefeld" shouldn't be used in the same sentence!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-20.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.52)



Re: aget america (1559)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 12:45:37 PDT
in reply to Re: aget america (1551), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 13, 1997 at 11:09:47 PDT

> >
> > > It might be in my comicsbook stroe tommorrow I will poast spoilers. I gave captain america 11 1 out of 100 stars like every issue of heroes reborn after 6

> > Could you please only post one code name. It wastes a lot of board space.

> > Patriot

> ....and it is kind of annoying......

Ya think?!!!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-20.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.52)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1560)

Posted by Rob on August 13, 1997 at 12:50:29 PDT
in reply to Re: This is why we talk about him (1555), posted by David Medinnus on August 13, 1997 at 12:01:04 PDT

> > who created cap? who created fighhting america?

> Jack Kirby

Actually, I believe that Joe Simon & Jack Kirby created both characters.


> > who updated cap? who updated fighting america?

> Stan Lee and Jack Kirby


Stan Lee didn't update FA, to my knowledge. I think "fa/aa" meant Rob Liefeld here.

When I wrote my post here about Archie's Shield, I tried to make it somewhat Cap-related by including the scene in Original Shield #4 (1984) where "Steve" & "Bucky" make a cameo appearance, and a reason why Cap's shield may have been changed to a circular shield. I have not contributed to the Rob Liefeld discussions since I've not read any of his work, including his Cap.

And to Sledge, we have had several good discussions about Cap's history and personality on this board. We welcome your continued input. I have enjoyed the recent threads about what kind of person Cap is. They remind me of the thoughtful Roger Stern letters-pages comments circa #245 which I praised in a previous post.

Rob
(thinking maybe I should change my name; I'm not Liefeld)

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)



Marvel sueing Awesome (1561)

Posted by Jason Fielding on August 13, 1997 at 13:59:02 PDT

This is for Mania:
Fighting American vs. Captain America

Round One

Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc. filed suit in the U.S. Court in Manhattan against Awesome Entertainment LLC Aug. 6, contending that Awesome's The Fighting American bears similarities to its Captain America series and violates copyright and trade dress rights.

In a press release, Marvel officials say that their "objection is not to Joe Simon's and Jack Kirby's original Fighting American series,or to any new series based on that source, but to Awesome's particular rendition of Fighting American, which appears to have drawn far more inspiration from Captain America than from its purported source."

The statement goes on to read that Marvel tried to resolve this matter amicably and without litigation, but was unsuccessful.

Awesome officials said Marvel originally sought a temporary restraining order, but withdrew the request when Awesome challenged the contention. The court has scheduled a full hearing for Aug. 18.

Awesome Entertainment also stated they will contest the law suit.

"We feel that this suit is without merit and are confident that Awesome will prevail," said Awesome's president and CEO Rob Liefeld, and publisher and executive VP, Jeph Loeb. "We plan to publish The Fighting American as scheduled this summer. Even Marvel can't stop The Fighting American."

... They had the Captain America Vol. 2 cover and the Fighting American Cover and compared them.

Host = ppp5-8.sudbury.cyberbeach.net (204.101.175.8)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1562)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 13, 1997 at 15:14:03 PDT
in reply to Re: This is why we talk about him (1558), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 12:43:57 PDT

By that logic, we should spend most of our time talking about Jack Kirby or Rob Liefeld. Neither of whom are currently working on Captain America, the topic of this board! Now, as for the similarities between Rob's so-called Fighting American and Cap, well, Rob has made it pretty clear that he couldn't come up with something original and decided to recycle his lousy (and unused) Cap scripts. Just once I'd like to see Rob do something original or tasteful. Oh well!

Happy Birthday,

Bubba2

"Original","tasteful", and "Rob Liefeld" shouldn't be used in the same sentence!



Cya
The Plaid Skull

Howz 'bout "Rob Liefeld doesn't deserved to called original or tasteful."?

Tobin


> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = host525.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.13)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1563)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 13, 1997 at 15:16:40 PDT
in reply to Re: This is why we talk about him (1562), posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 13, 1997 at 15:14:03 PDT


By that logic, we should spend most of our time talking about Jack Kirby or Rob Liefeld. Neither of whom are currently working on Captain America, the topic of this board! Now, as for the similarities between Rob's so-called Fighting American and Cap, well, Rob has made it pretty clear that he couldn't come up with something original and decided to recycle his lousy (and unused) Cap scripts. Just once I'd like to see Rob do something original or tasteful. Oh well!

Happy Birthday,

Bubba2

"Original","tasteful", and "Rob Liefeld" shouldn't be used in the same sentence!



Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Howz 'bout "Rob Liefeld doesn't deserved to becalled original or tasteful."?

Also I was wondering does your tag line mean that you're responsible for the injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness or that they happen and you are conventiently located in that area?

Tobin

Host = host525.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.13)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1564)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 13, 1997 at 15:17:22 PDT
in reply to Re: This is why we talk about him (1563), posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 13, 1997 at 15:16:40 PDT


>
> By that logic, we should spend most of our time talking about Jack Kirby or Rob Liefeld. Neither of whom are currently working on Captain America, the topic of this board! Now, as for the similarities between Rob's so-called Fighting American and Cap, well, Rob has made it pretty clear that he couldn't come up with something original and decided to recycle his lousy (and unused) Cap scripts. Just once I'd like to see Rob do something original or tasteful. Oh well!

> Happy Birthday,

> Bubba2

> "Original","tasteful", and "Rob Liefeld" shouldn't be used in the same sentence!

>
>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!


> Howz 'bout "Rob Liefeld doesn't deserved to be called original or tasteful."?

> Also I was wondering does your tag line mean that you're responsible for the injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness or that they happen and you are conventiently located in that area?

> Tobin

>

Host = host525.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.13)



Liefield rules (1565)

Posted by Steve Rogers on August 13, 1997 at 17:01:23 PDT

I don't know why everyone was so down on Liefield! I think he was the best thing to happen to Captain America in the last 35 years. Seriously, Liefield really was onto something before he got canned. I really believe that he was the best writer/artist in the history of Captain America comics. The flag on his head was ingenious, and the whole conspiracy story was amazing. On top of that, the art was simply spellbinding. I don't think there is a more talented artist in the industry today, maybe ever! He was the only good thing about "Heroes Reborn" and it's a damn shame that he's taken so much flak.

Host = mac26pg2.wam.umd.edu (128.8.73.106)



Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1566)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on August 13, 1997 at 17:41:29 PDT
in reply to Re: RE: Cap and the real world... (1541), posted by Night Hawk on August 12, 1997 at 20:28:43 PDT


> "All the world is a stage..." A Bard quoting Night Hawk

"...and I want a better soundtrack"

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)



Re: Liefield rules (1567)

Posted by Jack Monroe on August 13, 1997 at 18:33:57 PDT
in reply to Liefield rules (1565), posted by Steve Rogers on August 13, 1997 at 17:01:23 PDT

> I don't know why everyone was so down on Liefield! I think he was the best thing to happen to Captain America in the last 35 years. Seriously, Liefield really was onto something before he got canned. I really believe that he was the best writer/artist in the history of Captain America comics. The flag on his head was ingenious, and the whole conspiracy story was amazing. On top of that, the art was simply spellbinding. I don't think there is a more talented artist in the industry today, maybe ever! He was the only good thing about "Heroes Reborn" and it's a damn shame that he's taken so much flak.

I admit I liked Liefelds work on New Mutants, early X-Force, and one
of my favorites the Hawk & Dove mini-series for DC but the best thing to
happen to Cap in 35 years? Before this Heroes Reborn deal Cap was really
good and I hated to see it handed to Rob. I still read it but am looking forward to Caps return to the Marvel universe. Besides Robs deal about
the Fighting American is petty, he only wantss to get back at Marvel who
dumped him for his low quality work.
Bring back Nomad!
Jack

Host = dial-42.r06.tncphl.infoave.net (204.116.109.242)



Re: Liefield rules (1568)

Posted by Sledge on August 13, 1997 at 18:50:53 PDT
in reply to Liefield rules (1565), posted by Steve Rogers on August 13, 1997 at 17:01:23 PDT

> I don't know why everyone was so down on Liefield! I think he was the best thing to happen to Captain America in the last 35 years. Seriously, Liefield really was onto something before he got canned. I really believe that he was the best writer/artist in the history of Captain America comics. The flag on his head was ingenious, and the whole conspiracy story was amazing. On top of that, the art was simply spellbinding. I don't think there is a more talented artist in the industry today, maybe ever! He was the only good thing about "Heroes Reborn" and it's a damn shame that he's taken so much flak.

I strongly disagree with your statements. Here's why.

In my opinion I think that Mark Waid is one of the best things to happen to Captain America in years. Mark Gruenwald was the guiding force for so long, but the book was becoming stale. I won't bother bringing up CapWolf. Then Waid & Garney came along and did something amazing. They made people care about the book again. For the first time in years people were actually excited about Captain America and sales were slowly rising. He was telling some great stories in the short time he was there.

Then came the news of Rob Liefeld taking over the book for Heroes Reborn. I spoke with Waid at a show shortly after the announcement. I was impressed because no matter what anyone said, he wouldn't say a bad thing about Liefeld. I have a lot of respect for him, I couldn't have held back. Now a year later he's been a lot more vocal, teasing Jeph Loeb at the Chicago Con and stuff like that.

Now we've got strong creative teams coming in this fall to try to return the books to their former glory. I personally can't wait.

Now the first thing you'll bring up is that Rob's Cap sales were better. True, but look at the enormus hype surrounding the event. Some people were Liefeld fans, some were Cap fans, some were just curious, and the rest thought it'd be a good jumping on point. What they all got was a poor product. The story was lackluster and Rob's art was shoddy and weak. He draws faces all the same looking as if they are constipated. His anatomy is atrocious. He draws no backgrounds most of the time except what appear to be chicken scratches. His dimensions and depth in his panels are horribly off. His style may be unique, but when compared to a John Romita (pick one) or a Mike Zeck, it's below average comic book artwork compared to the stuff I've seen in my 13 years of comic collecting.

And last but not least, the flag on his head was blasphemy and you know it.

-=Sledge=-

Host = 208.196.38.57 (208.196.38.57)



Re: Liefield rules- lengthy reply (1569)

Posted by Matt on August 13, 1997 at 19:09:54 PDT
in reply to Liefield rules (1565), posted by Steve Rogers on August 13, 1997 at 17:01:23 PDT


> I don't know why everyone was so down on Liefield! I think he was the best thing to happen to Captain America in the last 35 years. Seriously, Liefield really was onto something before he got canned. I really believe that he was the best writer/artist in the history of Captain America comics. The flag on his head was ingenious, and the whole conspiracy story was amazing. On top of that, the art was simply spellbinding. I don't think there is a more talented artist in the industry today, maybe ever! He was the only good thing about "Heroes Reborn" and it's a damn shame that he's taken so much flak.

Assuming you really mean this and aren't trying to generate some artificial controversy, here's my response.

First of all, in the last 35 years you've had creators like Lee, Kirby, Steranko, Stern, Byrne, Zeck, DeMatties, Waid, and Garney on Cap. That's a pretty bold statement to claim that Rob's better than all these guys. But everyone's got an opinion, so I'll respect yours, but this is mine.

I personally don't like his art. He has no sense of anatomy and his sense of storytelling seems weak. He's better suited to pinup art or covers than to an actual story. As far as his writing goes, I think he's a pretty good concept man. I thought his first issue of Cap set forth some interesting ideas, but he has no clue how to pace a story or develop plot points (due mostly to his desire to draw full page and double page spreads throughout every issue). A more talented plotter could have told the first story arc in 3 issues and had a lot more development than Liefeld was able to do in 5. The sixth issue was a joke. A good story should have a beginning, a middle, and an end. There was certainly no beginning, and only a hasty end. There was absolutely no explanation why the action was taking place. I felt like I should have taken the $2 I spent on #6 and wiped my ass with it- I would have gotten the same effect.

Cheers,

Matt

Host = 209.36.103.133 (209.36.103.133)



Re: The Cover for Cap #12 aka the Next Issue! (1570)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 13, 1997 at 19:27:27 PDT
in reply to The Cover for Cap #12 aka the Next Issue! (1534), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 12, 1997 at 00:58:59 PDT

> Duuuuuhhh...I wonder who he's fighting????

A Sentinel? I figure with the big hand, it must be Master-Mold. After all, since the Franklinverse doesn't have mutants (except for Wanda, and she was an import), they must be so bored as to attack normal humans.

That's a joke, folks...

Oh, and Plaidy - while I enjoy the art as well as the next man, 350K is a bit large to post without a warning. I mean, I'm on a T1 link, but not everyone is... :)

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)



Current Topics and My Thoughts. (1571)

Posted by Batroc on August 13, 1997 at 19:31:23 PDT

>>> I guess I should explain to the newcomers that I started a discussion on Cap's Shield and we digressed all the way over to Ultron's Adamnatium head. So, I will apologize for that digression.
The Liefield/Fighting American debate. Since it is obviously a rip off of Cap, and needs to be noted by Cap fans.
I am not dwelling on it like some of you others. I am not excited about the project in anyway.„
As I have mentioned before, I did not have alot of exposure to Rob Liefield prior to HR; and I was not impressed at all with his work on Cap.
I had much rather discuss Captain America than "I love/hate Rob", but I will defend your right to express your opinions to the death (well at least until the threat of aggravated mayhem) for that is the way of honor, the way of BATROC the Leaper.

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: The Cover for Cap #12 aka the Next Issue! (1572)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 20:43:13 PDT
in reply to Re: The Cover for Cap #12 aka the Next Issue! (1570), posted by David Medinnus on August 13, 1997 at 19:27:27 PDT

> > Duuuuuhhh...I wonder who he's fighting????
>
> A Sentinel? I figure with the big hand, it must be Master-Mold. After all, since the Franklinverse doesn't have mutants (except for Wanda, and she was an import), they must be so bored as to attack normal humans.

> That's a joke, folks...

> Oh, and Plaidy - while I enjoy the art as well as the next man, 350K is a bit large to post without a warning. I mean, I'm on a T1 link, but not everyone is... :)

> -DM

Yeah, I know it's pretty big but there's no way I can shrink it down, I got it from Image's site! And that isn't a mutie hunter!! That's Galactus, the Planet Muncher!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-02.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.34)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1573)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 20:45:18 PDT
in reply to Re: This is why we talk about him (1563), posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 13, 1997 at 15:16:40 PDT

>
> By that logic, we should spend most of our time talking about Jack Kirby or Rob Liefeld. Neither of whom are currently working on Captain America, the topic of this board! Now, as for the similarities between Rob's so-called Fighting American and Cap, well, Rob has made it pretty clear that he couldn't come up with something original and decided to recycle his lousy (and unused) Cap scripts. Just once I'd like to see Rob do something original or tasteful. Oh well!

> Happy Birthday,

> Bubba2

> "Original","tasteful", and "Rob Liefeld" shouldn't be used in the same sentence!

>
>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!


> Howz 'bout "Rob Liefeld doesn't deserved to becalled original or tasteful."?

> Also I was wondering does your tag line mean that you're responsible for the injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness or that they happen and you are conventiently located in that area?

> Tobin

>

I don't know!! You're gonna have to take that up with the Red Skull! I got it off from him!! I just replaced "Red" with "Plaid"! Wait!! Is it true??? Am I slowly becoming Rob Liefield??????????? Nooooooooooo!!!!!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-02.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.34)



Re: This is why we talk about him (1574)

Posted by Falcon on August 13, 1997 at 20:55:24 PDT
in reply to Re: This is why we talk about him (1573), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 20:45:18 PDT


> >
> > By that logic, we should spend most of our time talking about Jack Kirby or Rob Liefeld. Neither of whom are currently working on Captain America, the topic of this board! Now, as for the similarities between Rob's so-called Fighting American and Cap, well, Rob has made it pretty clear that he couldn't come up with something original and decided to recycle his lousy (and unused) Cap scripts. Just once I'd like to see Rob do something original or tasteful. Oh well!

> > Happy Birthday,

> > Bubba2

> > "Original","tasteful", and "Rob Liefeld" shouldn't be used in the same sentence!

> >
> >
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

>
> > Howz 'bout "Rob Liefeld doesn't deserved to becalled original or tasteful."?

> > Also I was wondering does your tag line mean that you're responsible for the injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness or that they happen and you are conventiently located in that area?

> > Tobin

> >

> I don't know!! You're gonna have to take that up with the Red Skull! I got it off from him!! I just replaced "Red" with "Plaid"! Wait!! Is it true??? Am I slowly becoming Rob Liefield??????????? Nooooooooooo!!!!!!


>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull


> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Whenever there is crappy artwork, poor stories and bad ideas...the Rob Skull was there!!! (sorry; couldn't resist) and that's the last cheap shot I'm gonna take at Rob L.

Falcon

Host = 210.white-plains-001.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.152.210)



why this site is crap (1575)

Posted by jack meoff on August 13, 1997 at 21:09:08 PDT

this site is crap because it sucks hairy ass. thankyou.

Host = ww-tm02.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.36)



why the guy that just wrote the last letter takes it up the ass (1576)

Posted by ivanna pee on August 13, 1997 at 21:13:23 PDT
in reply to Re: Judgement Day (1423), posted by Falcon on August 01, 1997 at 06:47:54 PDT

because he says gay shit like simply horrid

Host = ww-tm02.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.36)



why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1577)

Posted by jen atalia on August 13, 1997 at 21:26:38 PDT
in reply to Just say NO--to Liefeld! (1495), posted by Red Norvell on August 10, 1997 at 02:37:38 PDT

because these loads of crap are stupid-ass no talent fudge packers. oh, and one more thing, kiss my white ass, bitches. thankyou

Host = ww-tm02.proxy.aol.com (152.163.197.36)



It's Just A Joke...Sorta... (1578)

Posted by Paradox on August 13, 1997 at 22:19:21 PDT
in reply to Re: This is my new name tell me what I am forgetting and awesome comics (1557), posted by David Medinnus on August 13, 1997 at 12:05:17 PDT

Using a capital letter once in a while and not typing inrunonsentences ( :) ) couldn't hurt ,either.

'Dox out.

Host = pm062-02.spindler.wmich.edu (141.218.241.203)



Re: why this site is crap (1579)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 23:23:03 PDT
in reply to why this site is crap (1575), posted by jack meoff on August 13, 1997 at 21:09:08 PDT

> this site is crap because it sucks hairy ass. thankyou.

Ahahahaahhahaaaaaaa!!! Fun! Fun! Fun! "It sucks hairy ass." That's the most ingenius use of the english language! Oh, and look it was all in lower case! Keep it up and we'll ban your hairy ass!!


Cya
The Plaid Skull


Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, and annoying posters that piss me off...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca3-09.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.169)



Why this guy is an illiterate, inbred, sister-marrying, prick! (1580)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 00:26:49 PDT
in reply to why the guy that just wrote the last letter takes it up the ass (1576), posted by ivanna pee on August 13, 1997 at 21:13:23 PDT

> because he says gay shit like simply horrid

Because he posts stupid ass messages like this crap!! And he has pillow-biting names like "Ivanna Pee" and "Jack Meoff"!! Obviously this guy likes the Man on Man stuff and a urine fetish judging from his names!

Go to Hell,
The Plaid Skull

Host = bak-ca3-09.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.169)



Why this guy likes Male Oral Sex! (1581)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 00:32:13 PDT
in reply to why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1577), posted by jen atalia on August 13, 1997 at 21:26:38 PDT

> because these loads of crap are stupid-ass no talent fudge packers. oh, and one more thing, kiss my white ass, bitches. thankyou

Because he's obsessed with homosexuality so much that he's probably a closet homo and he's probably in denial!! See? I can do it too,eh Dookie Chaser?

Go to hell,
The Plaid Skull


BTW, this guy's favorite page is probably www.Do me up the ass.com!

Host = bak-ca3-09.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.169)



Let me clear things up . (1582)

Posted by Fighting American on August 14, 1997 at 00:48:27 PDT

About my name, that is . You may be wondering " Why is Jamie using
this other guy's name on this board ? " Well, to put it quite frankly,
agent america, fighting american, fighting american/agent america,
or whatever his name is, spells with lower case letters, you see .
That gives me the right to this name .

Anyway, I was the second Agent America . I also have something to say
about this . My e-mail address is right above and now people can't
impersonate me anymore . I'll have you know that there will be no swearing
when I'm Fighting American .


* Fighting American *




Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)



Re: Let me clear things up . (1583)

Posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 05:42:28 PDT
in reply to Let me clear things up . (1582), posted by Fighting American on August 14, 1997 at 00:48:27 PDT


> About my name, that is . You may be wondering " Why is Jamie using
> this other guy's name on this board ? " Well, to put it quite frankly,
> agent america, fighting american, fighting american/agent america,
> or whatever his name is, spells with lower case letters, you see .
> That gives me the right to this name .

> Anyway, I was the second Agent America . I also have something to say
> about this . My e-mail address is right above and now people can't
> impersonate me anymore . I'll have you know that there will be no swearing
> when I'm Fighting American .

>
> * Fighting American *

Thanks for clearing that up. I could tell that you wearn't the other guy right away. Let's just say that your writing style and grammer were of a much higher quality.
I take it by the name you are a supporter of Liefeld's new title? If so, why? I haven't been able to ask someone on the board why they want to get FA? Do you not like Captain America? Are you a huge Liefeld fan? Are you maybe looking for another Red, White, and Blue comic as well as Cap?
I'd like to know.
Patriot.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)



Re: Current Topics and My Thoughts. (1584)

Posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 05:49:07 PDT
in reply to Current Topics and My Thoughts. (1571), posted by Batroc on August 13, 1997 at 19:31:23 PDT


> >>> I guess I should explain to the newcomers that I started a discussion on Cap's Shield and we digressed all the way over to Ultron's Adamnatium head. So, I will apologize for that digression.
> The Liefield/Fighting American debate. Since it is obviously a rip off of Cap, and needs to be noted by Cap fans.
> I am not dwelling on it like some of you others. I am not excited about the project in anyway.„
> As I have mentioned before, I did not have alot of exposure to Rob Liefield prior to HR; and I was not impressed at all with his work on Cap.
> I had much rather discuss Captain America than "I love/hate Rob", but I will defend your right to express your opinions to the death (well at least until the threat of aggravated mayhem) for that is the way of honor, the way of BATROC the Leaper.

I wish more people thought this way on the board. I did reply to Fighting American at the top of the board. I want to know why people will buy it.
As for the Cap shield debate, I know some of us will never see eye to eye but it was a good CAP debate nevertheless.
Patriot.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)



Re: Why this guy likes Male Oral Sex! (1585)

Posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 05:59:44 PDT
in reply to Why this guy likes Male Oral Sex! (1581), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 00:32:13 PDT

> > because these loads of crap are stupid-ass no talent fudge packers. oh, and one more thing, kiss my white ass, bitches. thankyou


> Because he's obsessed with homosexuality so much that he's probably a closet homo and he's probably in denial!! See? I can do it too,eh Dookie Chaser?


> Go to hell,
> The Plaid Skull


>
> BTW, this guy's favorite page is probably www.Do me up the ass.com!


Where the F**K did this FREAK crawl out from under?!! You're right Plaid, he's (or its) certainly got issues to deal with.

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)



Re: why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1586)

Posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 06:02:13 PDT
in reply to why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1577), posted by jen atalia on August 13, 1997 at 21:26:38 PDT

> because these loads of crap are stupid-ass no talent fudge packers. oh, and one more thing, kiss my white ass, bitches. thankyou


Somebody please ban this deviant piece of $h!t!

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)



Quality of this board. (1587)

Posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 06:09:52 PDT

I'm wondering if most people on the Cap board are over Eighteen? It seems to be so. The reason I ask is that I went to other boards to see what they were like and I didn't like what I saw. I always frequent the Cap-Avengers-Tbolts pages. Last night, since I'm also a big DC fan, I decided to go to the DC universe board (which has an incredible banner of Hal and Ollie). What I found were insults and fighting in every string. I was so turned off that I posted a message about the banner, got a reply, and left as soon as I could. I haven't dared venture to Superboy or Nightwing yet.
My point is I hope this board will stay the high caliber I've come accustomed to and people won't debase themselves to what I saw over there. I noticed some discusting posts that look like they've been removed on this board but not on the "no threads" part. I hope people won't feel the need to do that again.

A Patriot getting off his soapbox.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)



Re: Quality of this board. (1588)

Posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 06:39:47 PDT
in reply to Quality of this board. (1587), posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 06:09:52 PDT

> I'm wondering if most people on the Cap board are over Eighteen? It seems to be so. The reason I ask is that I went to other boards to see what they were like and I didn't like what I saw. I always frequent the Cap-Avengers-Tbolts pages. Last night, since I'm also a big DC fan, I decided to go to the DC universe board (which has an incredible banner of Hal and Ollie). What I found were insults and fighting in every string. I was so turned off that I posted a message about the banner, got a reply, and left as soon as I could. I haven't dared venture to Superboy or Nightwing yet.
> My point is I hope this board will stay the high caliber I've come accustomed to and people won't debase themselves to what I saw over there. I noticed some discusting posts that look like they've been removed on this board but not on the "no threads" part. I hope people won't feel the need to do that again.


> A Patriot getting off his soapbox.


You're right, of course, and I'm sorry for contributing to this recent thread; it was just in an effort to get this joker removed from the board. In hindsight, I realize it's probably better to ignore this fool.

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)



Re: Liefield rules (1589)

Posted by Captain America on August 14, 1997 at 06:53:10 PDT
in reply to Liefield rules (1565), posted by Steve Rogers on August 13, 1997 at 17:01:23 PDT

> I don't know why everyone was so down on Liefield! I think he was the best thing to happen to Captain America in the last 35 years. Seriously, Liefield really was onto something before he got canned. I really believe that he was the best writer/artist in the history of Captain America comics. The flag on his head was ingenious, and the whole conspiracy story was amazing. On top of that, the art was simply spellbinding. I don't think there is a more talented artist in the industry today, maybe ever! He was the only good thing about "Heroes Reborn" and it's a damn shame that he's taken so much flak.

Citizens:

Once again it seems that I must impose myself upon your discussions in order to clarify a point or two. First, in response to the above comment that Robbie was the best thing to happen to me in 35 years, does that include Jack Kirby? Now, on to some solid points. It was not a "flag" that Robbie put on my head, but a stupid Nazi eagle. I hated the thing if for no other reason it kept reminding me of the reasons we fought WWII. Also, as for Robbie being the most talent artist in the field, I have just a few points to make. Go pick up #1 of my adventures under Robbie. Go ahead, I'll wait. . . .Got it? Good! Now, look at how my size/stature changes every other page. At one point I look about nine feet tall while at others I look like a little kid. I got a headache from all that growing and shrinking (I have no idea how Hank Pym endures it!). Now, notice which arm my sheild is on. Oops, it changes from panel to panel without me even touching it (must be some new fangled kind of magic shield). Notice also how I slice a man open with my sheild, yet later on I catch it with MY BARE HAND! Is it sharp or not? Notice how the furniture switches in my house, how my TV runs without a plug, how my watch switches arms, how my gloves mysteriously appear and disappear. In other words, notice all the inconsistencies that a really good artist wouldn't allow, and then come to your own conclusions. I'm just glad that soon my universe will be back in the hands of Waid and Garney. At least then I'll be consistently written and drawn!

Keep the faith,

Captain America


Host = leo-percer.baylor.edu (129.62.3.126)



Re: Quality of this board. (1590)

Posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 08:16:27 PDT
in reply to Re: Quality of this board. (1588), posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 06:39:47 PDT


> > I'm wondering if most people on the Cap board are over Eighteen? It seems to be so. The reason I ask is that I went to other boards to see what they were like and I didn't like what I saw. I always frequent the Cap-Avengers-Tbolts pages. Last night, since I'm also a big DC fan, I decided to go to the DC universe board (which has an incredible banner of Hal and Ollie). What I found were insults and fighting in every string. I was so turned off that I posted a message about the banner, got a reply, and left as soon as I could. I haven't dared venture to Superboy or Nightwing yet.
> > My point is I hope this board will stay the high caliber I've come accustomed to and people won't debase themselves to what I saw over there. I noticed some discusting posts that look like they've been removed on this board but not on the "no threads" part. I hope people won't feel the need to do that again.

>
> > A Patriot getting off his soapbox.

>
> You're right, of course, and I'm sorry for contributing to this recent thread; it was just in an effort to get this joker removed from the board. In hindsight, I realize it's probably better to ignore this fool.

> Falcon

Just wanted to state that I didn't blame the regulars for that thread but for an unwanted idiot. Compared to other boards I've seen, this board is a university in the middle of kindergardens.

Patriot.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)



Rob Cap run (1591)

Posted by Fighting America/ Agent America on August 14, 1997 at 09:35:03 PDT

Now I will say that 1-5 were goodbut 6 sucked. It was worst then Cap wolf and that Fighting Chance but I love Jeph Loeb writing. Do you like his Iron Man. His Avengers sucked. Now I collect Awesome comic cause of Loeb and Moore and that is all. Lookk at judgment day good writing sometimes okay art work but Rob needs to now what a background his. Nowmaybe Fighting America willnot be good as Kirby art work not even cloose but the writing will. Now if you want to try a Awesome book with good writing and Art work do not try Y2 and fighting america but Suprme and Coven.

Host = pm3-27.wcoil.com (206.230.70.109)



Liefield sucks (1592)

Posted by Fighting America/ Agent America on August 14, 1997 at 09:42:02 PDT

His art work sucks. I only like Fighting America thanks to Loeb

Host = pm3-27.wcoil.com (206.230.70.109)



Re: Quality of this board. (1593)

Posted by Rimes (formerly Rob) on August 14, 1997 at 11:10:36 PDT
in reply to Quality of this board. (1587), posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 06:09:52 PDT


Yes, I've decided to change my handle at long last. The two names I have posted as on any message board are Rob and Rimes. I first started using Rimes around a month (or so) ago on the Jonah Weiland boards to prevent confusion with TSRob. Now i have decided to use the handle Rimes here as well, to prevent confusion with a certain comics artist who has been much-discussed here.

Now, on to Patriot's post:


> I'm wondering if most people on the Cap board are over Eighteen?

I'm 26, will be 27 in a few months.

»It seems to be so. The reason I ask is that I went to other boards to see what they were like and I didn't like what I saw. I always frequent the Cap-Avengers-Tbolts pages. Last night, since I'm also a big DC fan, I decided to go to the DC universe board (which has an incredible banner of Hal and Ollie). What I found were insults and fighting in every string. I was so turned off that I posted a message about the banner, got a reply, and left as soon as I could.

Some of that has to be taken tongue-in-cheek. Some of those people know each other from other boards or from the chat room and are just playing around.


»I haven't dared venture to Superboy or Nightwing yet.

Well then you missed my tenure as temporary moderator of the Superboy board during Albert Ching's vacation last week. I posted a few article-like posts on the Silver-Age Superboy. And the Nightwing board is often frequented by our very own David Meddinus!


> My point is I hope this board will stay the high caliber I've come accustomed to and people won't debase themselves to what I saw over there. I noticed some discusting posts that look like they've been removed on this board but not on the "no threads" part. I hope people won't feel the need to do that again.

> A Patriot getting off his soapbox.


You might want to try the Thor board, too, since it can be pretty serious. The idiots tend to stay away from there, I think. You may also want to try the boards at Jonah Weiland's site, too.

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)



Re: Quality of this board. (1594)

Posted by Giltanis on August 14, 1997 at 11:11:51 PDT
in reply to Re: Quality of this board. (1590), posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 08:16:27 PDT


> >
> > You're right, of course, and I'm sorry for contributing to this recent thread; it was just in an effort to get this joker removed from the board. In hindsight, I realize it's probably better to ignore this fool.

> > Falcon

> Just wanted to state that I didn't blame the regulars for that thread but for an unwanted idiot. Compared to other boards I've seen, this board is a university in the middle of kindergardens.

> Patriot.

I find that the quality of the postings oftentimes depends on the fanbase that the Message board represents. With 'General' Comic boards all people are attracted to post just about anything.

But with boards solely devoted to one character, the topics seem to be more mature. The fans appreicate the qualities of that character and REALLY want to discuss those qualities with people of similar interests. Sure we get crank posters every now and then at the Thor board, but it's the moderator's job to weed stuff like that out.

--Gil

Host = klbmac-grumpy.acs.oakland.edu (141.210.12.220)



Re: Quality of this board. (1595)

Posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 11:18:39 PDT
in reply to Re: Quality of this board. (1593), posted by Rimes (formerly Rob) on August 14, 1997 at 11:10:36 PDT

>
>
> You might want to try the Thor board, too, since it can be pretty serious. The idiots tend to stay away from there, I think. You may also want to try the boards at Jonah Weiland's site, too.

Yeah, I think intellectual conversation gives idiots a headache.

Falcon

Host = gate8.ny.us.ibm.com (198.133.22.35)



Re: why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1596)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 12:09:21 PDT
in reply to Re: why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1586), posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 06:02:13 PDT

> > because these loads of crap are stupid-ass no talent fudge packers. oh, and one more thing, kiss my white ass, bitches. thankyou

>
> Somebody please ban this deviant piece of $h!t!

> Falcon

Don't worry, I e-mailed Sam to ban this moron!! BTW, he also made fun of you farther down the board! I retaliated of course!


Cya
The Plaid Skull

Host = bak-ca1-08.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.40)



Re: Quality of this board. (1597)

Posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 12:20:34 PDT
in reply to Re: Quality of this board. (1594), posted by Giltanis on August 14, 1997 at 11:11:51 PDT


> But with boards solely devoted to one character, the topics seem to be more mature. The fans appreicate the qualities of that character and REALLY want to discuss those qualities with people of similar interests. Sure we get crank posters every now and then at the Thor board, but it's the moderator's job to weed stuff like that out.

> --Gil

I should probably state that I find the Thor board and Avengers board to be the same high quality before I offend someone. I wasn't about to post the same message on three boards.

Patriot

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)



Re: why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1598)

Posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 12:32:21 PDT
in reply to Re: why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1596), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 12:09:21 PDT

> > > because these loads of crap are stupid-ass no talent fudge packers. oh, and one more thing, kiss my white ass, bitches. thankyou

> >
> > Somebody please ban this deviant piece of $h!t!

> > Falcon

> Don't worry, I e-mailed Sam to ban this moron!! BTW, he also made fun of you farther down the board! I retaliated of course!

>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull


Was that the post that said "the last guy, etc?" Whatever the hell it was, thank you, Plaid for retaliating on my behalf.

Falcon

Host = gate8.ny.us.ibm.com (198.133.22.35)



Re: why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1599)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 12:39:31 PDT
in reply to Re: why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1598), posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 12:32:21 PDT

> > > > because these loads of crap are stupid-ass no talent fudge packers. oh, and one more thing, kiss my white ass, bitches. thankyou

> > >
> > > Somebody please ban this deviant piece of $h!t!

> > > Falcon

> > Don't worry, I e-mailed Sam to ban this moron!! BTW, he also made fun of you farther down the board! I retaliated of course!

> >
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

>
> Was that the post that said "the last guy, etc?" Whatever the hell it was, thank you, Plaid for retaliating on my behalf.

> Falcon

No, it's....

Host = bak-ca1-08.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.40)



puerile, inane, just plain stupid posts (1600)

Posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 13:30:25 PDT
in reply to Re: why these fatasses probably march in the gay parade on saint patricks day (1599), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 12:39:31 PDT

> > > > > because these loads of crap are stupid-ass no talent fudge packers. oh, and one more thing, kiss my white ass, bitches. thankyou


> > > >
> > > > Somebody please ban this deviant piece of $h!t!


> > > > Falcon


> > > Don't worry, I e-mailed Sam to ban this moron!! BTW, he also made fun of you farther down the board! I retaliated of course!


> > >
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull


> >
> > Was that the post that said "the last guy, etc?" Whatever the hell it was, thank you, Plaid for retaliating on my behalf.


> > Falcon


> No, it's....


Oh yeah... that one.

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)



Re: why this site is crap (1601)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 14, 1997 at 14:25:57 PDT
in reply to Re: why this site is crap (1579), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 13, 1997 at 23:23:03 PDT

> > this site is crap because it sucks hairy ass. thankyou.

> Ahahahaahhahaaaaaaa!!! Fun! Fun! Fun! "It sucks hairy ass." That's the most ingenius use of the english language! Oh, and look it was all in lower case! Keep it up and we'll ban your hairy ass!!


>
> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, and annoying posters that piss me off...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Hey!!!! Plaidy, did you know that you just said "hairy ass"??? You could be banned too. Ya hairy boob.....see....that is the safe response...

Host = 155.42.32.44 (155.42.32.44)



Re: why this site is crap (1602)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 14:27:24 PDT
in reply to Re: why this site is crap (1601), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 14, 1997 at 14:25:57 PDT

> > > this site is crap because it sucks hairy ass. thankyou.

> > Ahahahaahhahaaaaaaa!!! Fun! Fun! Fun! "It sucks hairy ass." That's the most ingenius use of the english language! Oh, and look it was all in lower case! Keep it up and we'll ban your hairy ass!!

>
> >
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, and annoying posters that piss me off...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> Hey!!!! Plaidy, did you know that you just said "hairy ass"??? You could be banned too. Ya hairy boob.....see....that is the safe response...

You said,"boob"! Heh heh heh!


Cya
The Plaid Skull

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Re: Quality of this board. (1603)

Posted by Giltanis on August 14, 1997 at 16:15:42 PDT
in reply to Re: Quality of this board. (1597), posted by Patriot on August 14, 1997 at 12:20:34 PDT


> I should probably state that I find the Thor board and Avengers board to be the same high quality before I offend someone. I wasn't about to post the same message on three boards.

> Patriot

None taken... ;) (I figured you probabily forgot us in all this hassle..)

--Gil

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Re: puerile, inane, just plain stupid posts (1604)

Posted by Giltanis on August 14, 1997 at 16:23:57 PDT
in reply to puerile, inane, just plain stupid posts (1600), posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 13:30:25 PDT

Hail All!

I find the best way to deal with crank posters is just to ignore them. Eventually they get bored and leave anyways. If you feed to their need for attention (negative or positive) then they will continue to stay.

How bout the moderator delete any crank related posts, and from now on we just ignore the new ones that come up. Don't one person drag down the quality of this board.

Forget about this guy... He's probabily just some kid running that's watches too much Beavis and Butthead.

--Gil

Host = dhe3pc-burns.acs.oakland.edu (141.210.12.84)



You said it, Gil! *no text* (1605)

Posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 16:40:22 PDT
in reply to Re: puerile, inane, just plain stupid posts (1604), posted by Giltanis on August 14, 1997 at 16:23:57 PDT


> Hail All!

> I find the best way to deal with crank posters is just to ignore them. Eventually they get bored and leave anyways. If you feed to their need for attention (negative or positive) then they will continue to stay.

> How bout the moderator delete any crank related posts, and from now on we just ignore the new ones that come up. Don't one person drag down the quality of this board.

> Forget about this guy... He's probabily just some kid running that's watches too much Beavis and Butthead.

> --Gil

Host = 148.white-plains-001.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.152.148)



Batroc (1606)

Posted by The way of Honor on August 14, 1997 at 16:43:31 PDT

>>>>This board is at an intellectual low. There have been alot of deletions
but since I subscribe to the message board, I've probably perused all of the sophomoric posts.
I think bans are in order for a few people.
>>>Plaidy, as much as I have always respected your opinions and unique since of humor, I would not sling mud with the Beavis and Butthead crowd.
And not to sound like my mom, but you get on their level.
>>>>Dave M., you are one of the best moderators on the Sigma net, but Jack Meoff and Ivanna Pee
should get the boot from the board.
>>>>I like the board the way it has been in the past, good Cap discussions, good comic concepts, and good natured fun
between people who have come to know each other through the board.
Just my two cents,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Batroc the Leaper..

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)



Re: Batroc (1607)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 14, 1997 at 16:55:00 PDT
in reply to Batroc (1606), posted by The way of Honor on August 14, 1997 at 16:43:31 PDT

> >>>>This board is at an intellectual low. There have been alot of deletions
> but since I subscribe to the message board, I've probably perused all of the sophomoric posts.
> I think bans are in order for a few people.
> >>>Plaidy, as much as I have always respected your opinions and unique since of humor, I would not sling mud with the Beavis and Butthead crowd.
> And not to sound like my mom, but you get on their level.
> >>>>Dave M., you are one of the best moderators on the Sigma net, but Jack Meoff and Ivanna Pee
> should get the boot from the board.
> >>>>I like the board the way it has been in the past, good Cap discussions, good comic concepts, and good natured fun
> between people who have come to know each other through the board.
> Just my two cents,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Batroc the Leaper..

Well, I apologize but I was sick and tired literally and not too happy since I had to rush to the bathroom every 5 seconds! I had a bad case of...the "runs"(ewww)and still do! And the last thing I wanted to read was an insult! I suppose I should've have left him alone or gave a more intelligent and witty response but if I said something intelligent the moron would've dismissed as "homo-talk"! Well, I already e-mailed Sam to ban this person! The last thing I want is this place to end up like JPruitt's board! This poster also caused a ruckus over at the chat room!


Cya
The Plaid Skull

Host = bak-ca1-17.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.49)



Re: Rob Cap run (1608)

Posted by Fixer on August 14, 1997 at 20:14:01 PDT
in reply to Rob Cap run (1591), posted by Fighting America/ Agent America on August 14, 1997 at 09:35:03 PDT


> Now I will say that 1-5 were goodbut 6 sucked. It was worst then Cap wolf and that Fighting Chance but I love Jeph Loeb writing. Do you like his Iron Man. His Avengers sucked. Now I collect Awesome comic cause of Loeb and Moore and that is all. Lookk at judgment day good writing sometimes okay art work but Rob needs to now what a background his. Nowmaybe Fighting America willnot be good as Kirby art work not even cloose but the writing will. Now if you want to try a Awesome book with good writing and Art work do not try Y2 and fighting america but Suprme and Coven.


I don't like Loeb either. His plots are awful and his stories take all of two minutes too read. Splash page after splash page. I would say it's the artist...... but it's in every Loeb comic!!

Why not Y2? It's going to be written by Moore. The only Awesome books I'll be getting will be Supreme and y2 -- and only because Alan Moore is God.

--Fixer
hasn't posted in a while

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Re: Rob Cap run (1609)

Posted by Fighting America on August 14, 1997 at 20:21:12 PDT
in reply to Re: Rob Cap run (1608), posted by Fixer on August 14, 1997 at 20:14:01 PDT

I will buy Y2 but Rob is drawing it. Would you read Cap if Moore wrote it

Host = 208.10.2.38 (208.10.2.38)



soory it was fighting america/ Agent America not Fighting America (1610)

Posted by Fighting america. Agent America on August 14, 1997 at 20:28:02 PDT
in reply to Re: Rob Cap run (1609), posted by Fighting America on August 14, 1997 at 20:21:12 PDT

> I will buy Y2 but Rob is drawing it. Would you read Cap if Moore wrote it

Host = 208.10.2.38 (208.10.2.38)



Does anyone smell a waffle? (1611)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 14, 1997 at 20:31:14 PDT
in reply to Liefield sucks (1592), posted by Fighting America/ Agent America on August 14, 1997 at 09:42:02 PDT

> His art work sucks. I only like Fighting America thanks to Loeb
Holy flip-flop, stonecold! You used to love him!
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)



Re: Does anyone smell a waffle? (1612)

Posted by stonecold on August 14, 1997 at 20:36:54 PDT
in reply to Does anyone smell a waffle? (1611), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 14, 1997 at 20:31:14 PDT

> > His art work sucks. I only like Fighting America thanks to Loeb
> Holy flip-flop, stonecold! You used to love him!
> Albert

No I liked his Cap and X-force. I never saw one background pic in Judgment day one or two. Plus on the superboy board we had 300 poast about why we hate you. It took forever to erase. I might be the montior for Avengers or t-bolts is it easy.

Host = 208.10.2.38 (208.10.2.38)



Fighting America cober for one makes fun of Marvel (1613)

Posted by Agent America/ Fighting America on August 14, 1997 at 20:46:05 PDT

He says it is not over till i say it is over. Is that mean or what

Host = 208.10.2.38 (208.10.2.38)



Fighting America cover for one makes fun of Marvel (1614)

Posted by Agent America/ Fighting America on August 14, 1997 at 20:46:39 PDT

He says it is not over till i say it is over. Is that mean or what

Host = 208.10.2.38 (208.10.2.38)



Re: Fighting America cober for one makes fun of Marvel (1615)

Posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 21:03:27 PDT
in reply to Fighting America cober for one makes fun of Marvel (1613), posted by Agent America/ Fighting America on August 14, 1997 at 20:46:05 PDT


> He says it is not over till i say it is over. Is that mean or what

Who says? Liefeld?

Falcon

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Re: Does anyone smell a waffle? (1616)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 14, 1997 at 21:20:46 PDT
in reply to Re: Does anyone smell a waffle? (1612), posted by stonecold on August 14, 1997 at 20:36:54 PDT

> > > His art work sucks. I only like Fighting America thanks to Loeb
> > Holy flip-flop, stonecold! You used to love him!
> > Albert
> No I liked his Cap and X-force. I never saw one background pic in Judgment day one or two. Plus on the superboy board we had 300 poast about why we hate you. It took forever to erase. I might be the montior for Avengers or t-bolts is it easy.
You're full of crap. Fu*k off, kid.
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)



Re: soory it was fighting america/ Agent America not Fighting America (1617)

Posted by Fixer on August 14, 1997 at 21:36:38 PDT
in reply to soory it was fighting america/ Agent America not Fighting America (1610), posted by Fighting america. Agent America on August 14, 1997 at 20:28:02 PDT


> > I will buy Y2 but Rob is drawing it. Would you read Cap if Moore wrote it

Yup, I would.

--Fixer
second post in a long time

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Re: Fighting America cober for one makes fun of Marvel (1618)

Posted by Fixer on August 14, 1997 at 21:38:55 PDT
in reply to Re: Fighting America cober for one makes fun of Marvel (1615), posted by Falcon on August 14, 1997 at 21:03:27 PDT


>
> > He says it is not over till i say it is over. Is that mean or what

> Who says? Liefeld?

> Falcon

I'm guessing Fighting American. He says "It's not over 'til I say it's over" on the cover. Is that right, FA/AA?

--Fixer
it's just a guess

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META: Board Announcements (1619)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 14, 1997 at 22:21:16 PDT

Hiya.

Earlier this evening the owner and sysadmin of Sigma.Net shut down the chat area because of a singular lack of co-operation and (no lack) of abusive language (directed at him).

As for the content of THIS board...I go away to Microsoft for one day, and everything goes to hell.

So...by the end of the month I am going to cease moderating this board; I agree with the comments about the purile nature of many of the posts (which seems to be an endemic thing across all of the boards). The Cap board may or may not go away; that's for Alvaro to decide.

I will be building a semi-private message board and java-based chat room for the Star-Spangled Site, which will require registration; all are welcome. However, if/when certain people using the facilities become abusive, I will delete their priviledges; end of problem.

Please bear with us until then.

Thanx!

Host = mg128-088.ricochet.net (204.179.128.88)



Liefield and Agent America/Fighting American Off-Topic (1620)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 14, 1997 at 22:38:36 PDT

Hiya.

As moderator, I am declaring Rob Liefield (in general) and Agent America/Fighting American in particular to be off-topic. Yeah, I know; depending on content, I ccould make a justification. But what starts as a calm discussion often digresses very quickly.

So...no more. Threads thereof will be nuked without ceremony or mercy.

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