Posted by Falcon on August 22, 1997 at 10:26:51 PDT
in reply to Re: Hey, Plaidy! (1791), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 21, 1997 at 22:28:35 PDT

> >
> > Plaid,

> > I hope you caught my post on the Thor board, in reply to your post "Poooollllllll," concerning new boards. Put me down for the non-Marvel/non-DC board. It can be a place where new independents could be discussed, and also old non-Marvel/non-DC comics.

> > Rob

> Yep! I got your vote, Rob! There's something strange about the banner! It looks distorted! Something's wrong with the Skull's jaw and finger and I guess folks can barely see Bucky and Cap in there!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

Maybe there's a better pic, somewhere, say of Cap applying his fist to the Red Skull's face?

Falcon

Host = mpngate1.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.49)

Posted by The Plaid Goblin on August 22, 1997 at 12:17:17 PDT
in reply to Re: Hey, Plaidy! (1793), posted by Falcon on August 22, 1997 at 10:26:51 PDT

> > >
> > > Plaid,

>
> > > I hope you caught my post on the Thor board, in reply to your post "Poooollllllll," concerning new boards. Put me down for the non-Marvel/non-DC board. It can be a place where new independents could be discussed, and also old non-Marvel/non-DC comics.

>
> > > Rob

>
> > Yep! I got your vote, Rob! There's something strange about the banner! It looks distorted! Something's wrong with the Skull's jaw and finger and I guess folks can barely see Bucky and Cap in there!

> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

>
> Maybe there's a better pic, somewhere, say of Cap applying his fist to the Red Skull's face?

> Falcon

Hey, does anyone have an idea where that Cap homage to Superman pic is?

Cya
The Plaid Goblin

Host = bak-ca1-03.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.35)

Posted by Venom on August 22, 1997 at 14:02:40 PDT

Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.

--Venom--

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 22, 1997 at 14:22:05 PDT
in reply to Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1795), posted by Venom on August 22, 1997 at 14:02:40 PDT

> Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.

>

> --Venom--

Hey, that was the same pic as the last banner! Except he wasn't glowing though!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-21.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.53)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 22, 1997 at 16:40:12 PDT
in reply to Re: What If...Cap were revived until today? (1792), posted by Rimes on August 21, 1997 at 23:23:55 PDT

Anyway, i notice that Cap is scheduled to be in an upcoming issue of WHAT IF. The issue (#103) is scheduled to be released on October 15th, and is by Bill Rosemann & Dan Fraga (I recognize neither name...anyone know their work?). The plot: "What if Captain America had saved the life of the inventor of the Super Soldier serum?! He would awaken to an America completely changed by his actions!" Interesting premise!

Rob

That sort of thing was actually done in What If #28/29. It was a pretty good story, you see what happens is since the super solider serum still exists the U.S. government makes an entire platoon of super soliders, including: Nick Fury, Dum Dum Dungan, Gabriel Jones with Steve Rogers as the C.O. I won't go any farther just in case.

Another Cap What If... was #3 (2nd series) entitled "What If...Steve Rogers had refused to give up being Captain America? A long title but a great read, if only it didn't end in such a depressing end. It takes place around Cap#333 where John Walker takes over as Cap.

Tobin - hoping to complete his What if... run soon

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Posted by Falcon on August 22, 1997 at 17:04:42 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1796), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 22, 1997 at 14:22:05 PDT

>
> > Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.

> >

> > --Venom--

> Hey, that was the same pic as the last banner! Except he wasn't glowing though!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

That is a pretty good graphic. I like it but I don't think it's right for the banner. It's too bright and Cap is not the focus, as he should be.

Falcon

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Posted by Fighting American on August 22, 1997 at 18:39:09 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1796), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 22, 1997 at 14:22:05 PDT

Ah, Venom, you are right . Beautiful .

It's not over until I say it's over !

* Fighting American *

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by Fighting American on August 22, 1997 at 19:07:24 PDT

That is all .

It's not over until I say it's over !

* Fighting American *

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Posted by doughnut on August 22, 1997 at 19:16:23 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1798), posted by Falcon on August 22, 1997 at 17:04:42 PDT

How about this for the banner?

doughnut

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Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 22, 1997 at 21:05:54 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gif (1801), posted by doughnut on August 22, 1997 at 19:16:23 PDT

> How about this for the banner?

>
> doughnut

Hey,that's not bad! That's not bad at all!! What say the rest of you? Ya like this as the banner? And, about that Cap#1 pic what I meant was, wasn't that pic of Cap standing with the shield the same one we used as the last banner except he wasn't glowing?

Cya
The Plaid Skull

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Posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 22, 1997 at 22:38:50 PDT

>>> If that Red Skull/Cosmic Cube pic is up there in honor of
Plaidy being 10,000,,,, I must protest. I will not rest until my
namesake, Ze Lepair, receives his own pic on top of the message
board. I am the master of all useless Cap trivia and don't you
forget it. For that is the way of honor, that is the way of
BATROC the egotistical Leaper!!!!

Host = pmc106.aeneas.net (207.65.53.135)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 23, 1997 at 00:51:40 PDT
in reply to The Red/Plaid Skull (1803), posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 22, 1997 at 22:38:50 PDT

> >>> If that Red Skull/Cosmic Cube pic is up there in honor of
> Plaidy being 10,000,,,, I must protest. I will not rest until my
> namesake, Ze Lepair, receives his own pic on top of the message
> board. I am the master of all useless Cap trivia and don't you
> forget it. For that is the way of honor, that is the way of
> BATROC the egotistical Leaper!!!!

I agree!! Everyone seems to like the Leaper and he isn't so controversial!! Although I can't find any pic of him in action! Besides the pic is distorted!:(

Cya
The Plaid Goblin

Whever there is injustice, tyranny, rutlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-01.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.33)

Posted by KC on August 23, 1997 at 10:34:15 PDT

Check this out...
It looks cool.

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Posted by Falcon on August 23, 1997 at 11:32:29 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gif (1802), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 22, 1997 at 21:05:54 PDT

> > How about this for the banner?

> >
> > doughnut

> Hey,that's not bad! That's not bad at all!! What say the rest of you? Ya like this as the banner? And, about that Cap#1 pic what I meant was, wasn't that pic of Cap standing with the shield the same one we used as the last banner except he wasn't glowing?

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

I like it but wouldn't you have to cut it some to make it fit in the space, therefore losing essential details?

Falcon

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Posted by Falcon on August 23, 1997 at 11:33:44 PDT
in reply to Re: The Red/Plaid Skull (1804), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 23, 1997 at 00:51:40 PDT

> > >>> If that Red Skull/Cosmic Cube pic is up there in honor of
> > Plaidy being 10,000,,,, I must protest. I will not rest until my
> > namesake, Ze Lepair, receives his own pic on top of the message
> > board. I am the master of all useless Cap trivia and don't you
> > forget it. For that is the way of honor, that is the way of
> > BATROC the egotistical Leaper!!!!

> I agree!! Everyone seems to like the Leaper and he isn't so controversial!! Although I can't find any pic of him in action! Besides the pic is distorted!:(

> Cya
> The Plaid Goblin

>
> Whever there is injustice, tyranny, rutlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

I disagree. No offense, Batroc, but please, no Leaper! Unless Cap is in there too.

Falcon

Host = 41.white-plains-001.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.152.41)

Posted by Falcon on August 23, 1997 at 11:35:02 PDT
in reply to Agent America Pic (1805), posted by KC on August 23, 1997 at 10:34:15 PDT

> Check this out...
> It looks cool.

>

Arrgh! Take it away, take it away!

Falcon

Host = 41.white-plains-001.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.152.41)

Posted by Rein on August 23, 1997 at 15:32:51 PDT
in reply to I'M BAAACK! (also answers to various posts) (1489), posted by Patriot on August 09, 1997 at 20:30:39 PDT

I seem to recall that the molecule man reduced the shield to putty in an Avengers issue. This was back in the days when he could only manipulate inorganic molecules. If the molecule man could do this then Galactus certainly could do the same if not more.

Rein

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Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 23, 1997 at 17:58:04 PDT
in reply to Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1795), posted by Venom on August 22, 1997 at 14:02:40 PDT

> Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.

>

> --Venom--

I don't like it. Is Garney trying to make Cap look like God?

Albert

Host = ww-tc42.proxy.aol.com (152.163.205.160)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 23, 1997 at 18:25:18 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1810), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 23, 1997 at 17:58:04 PDT

> > Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.

> >

> > --Venom--

> I don't like it. Is Garney trying to make Cap look like God?

> Albert

I think his shield looks too big!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-04.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.68)

Posted by Gordon on August 23, 1997 at 20:31:36 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1810), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 23, 1997 at 17:58:04 PDT

> > Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.

> >

> > --Venom--

> I don't like it. Is Garney trying to make Cap look like God?

> Albert

What do you mean "look like"? He is just darn close, anyhoo. ;-)

Host = x2-usr.ppp101.webzone.net (208.137.187.101)

Posted by Tony Stark on August 24, 1997 at 06:39:33 PDT
in reply to Re: Agent America Pic (1808), posted by Falcon on August 23, 1997 at 11:35:02 PDT

>
> > Check this out...
> > It looks cool.

> >

> Arrgh! Take it away, take it away!

> Falcon

Gee, can't see any blatant Cap rip-off here.
Let's go tar and feather loafhead. I got the tar, whose got the feathers?

Tony Stark

Host = nbre-ras2-cs-9.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.52)

Posted by Tony Stark on August 24, 1997 at 06:43:20 PDT
in reply to Re: The Red/Plaid Skull (1807), posted by Falcon on August 23, 1997 at 11:33:44 PDT

>
> > > >>> If that Red Skull/Cosmic Cube pic is up there in honor of
> > > Plaidy being 10,000,,,, I must protest. I will not rest until my
> > > namesake, Ze Lepair, receives his own pic on top of the message
> > > board. I am the master of all useless Cap trivia and don't you
> > > forget it. For that is the way of honor, that is the way of
> > > BATROC the egotistical Leaper!!!!

> > I agree!! Everyone seems to like the Leaper and he isn't so controversial!! Although I can't find any pic of him in action! Besides the pic is distorted!:(

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Goblin

> >
> > Whever there is injustice, tyranny, rutlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

> I disagree. No offense, Batroc, but please, no Leaper! Unless Cap is in there too.

> Falcon

Things can worse then the Red Skull and Batroc. It could have been Cap in that god awful armor my namesake made for him. *shudder*

Tony Stark

Host = nbre-ras2-cs-9.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.52)

Posted by Tony Stark on August 24, 1997 at 06:47:55 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1811), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 23, 1997 at 18:25:18 PDT

>
> > > Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.

> > >

> > > --Venom--

> > I don't like it. Is Garney trying to make Cap look like God?

> > Albert

> I think his shield looks too big!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Actually, I think that's a halo around the shield, making it look bigger. I gotta tell you, that picture is stunning. It just took my breath away.

Tony "Blinded by the Light" Stark

Host = nbre-ras2-cs-9.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.52)

Posted by Red Norvell on August 24, 1997 at 09:50:40 PDT
in reply to Re: Agent America Pic (1813), posted by Tony Stark on August 24, 1997 at 06:39:33 PDT

> >
> > > Check this out...
> > > It looks cool.

> > >

> > Arrgh! Take it away, take it away!

> > Falcon

> Gee, can't see any blatant Cap rip-off here.
> Let's go tar and feather loafhead. I got the tar, whose got the feathers?

> Tony Stark

Liefeld's an idiot. There's no way he can get away with this...

-Red Norvell

Host = hal-ns1-21.netcom.ca (207.181.94.85)

Posted by KC on August 24, 1997 at 14:59:27 PDT

Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.

KC

Host = aspergillus.clubi.ie (194.133.100.52)

Posted by Falcon on August 24, 1997 at 15:43:07 PDT
in reply to Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1817), posted by KC on August 24, 1997 at 14:59:27 PDT

> Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.

> KC

Maybe it will fizzle out and die. A comic book shop owner I sometimes buy from said he wouldn't order any copies of that title, except on a by-request basis. Hopefully other comic dealers will be of the same mind.

Falcon

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Posted by KC on August 24, 1997 at 17:31:42 PDT
in reply to Re: Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1818), posted by Falcon on August 24, 1997 at 15:43:07 PDT

>
> > Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.

> > KC

> Maybe it will fizzle out and die. A comic book shop owner I sometimes buy from said he wouldn't order any copies of that title, except on a by-request basis. Hopefully other comic dealers will be of the same mind.

> Falcon

Either that or they should radically change the character.It would be good except for the fact that it is a blatent copy of Captain America.Maybe a Fighting American vs Captain America one-shot would be in order.Actually I might write a Fan-Fiction about it...

KC

Host = aspergillus.clubi.ie (194.133.100.52)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 24, 1997 at 19:07:16 PDT
in reply to Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1817), posted by KC on August 24, 1997 at 14:59:27 PDT

> Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.
> KC
So? I like most around here, dislike Liefeld's art style, but do you really want to see him fail in his life?
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 24, 1997 at 19:08:05 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1815), posted by Tony Stark on August 24, 1997 at 06:47:55 PDT

> >
> > > > Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.
> > > >
> > > > --Venom--
> > > I don't like it. Is Garney trying to make Cap look like God?
> > > Albert
> > I think his shield looks too big!
>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull
> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> Actually, I think that's a halo around the shield, making it look bigger. I gotta tell you, that picture is stunning. It just took my breath away.
> Tony "Blinded by the Light" Stark
It's a nice _drawing_. just damn pretentious, if you ask me.
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Falcon on August 24, 1997 at 19:21:14 PDT
in reply to Re: Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1820), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 24, 1997 at 19:07:16 PDT

> > Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.
> > KC
> So? I like most around here, dislike Liefeld's art style, but do you really want to see him fail in his life?
> Albert

It's not that anyone wants him to fail (at least I don't think so). Just not succeed using ripping off someone else.

Falcon

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Posted by Falcon on August 24, 1997 at 19:23:16 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1821), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 24, 1997 at 19:08:05 PDT

> > >
> > > > > Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.
> > > > >
> > > > > --Venom--
> > > > I don't like it. Is Garney trying to make Cap look like God?
> > > > Albert
> > > I think his shield looks too big!
> >
> > > Cya
> > > The Plaid Skull
> > >
> > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > Actually, I think that's a halo around the shield, making it look bigger. I gotta tell you, that picture is stunning. It just took my breath away.
> > Tony "Blinded by the Light" Stark
> It's a nice _drawing_. just damn pretentious, if you ask me.
> Albert

I agree. I prefer a nice, uncluttered, down-to-earth picture of Cap. Also, I think computer coloring or photo editing software was used for that image. Just saying.

Falcon

Host = 22.white-plains-001.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.152.22)

Posted by The Plaid Gibbon on August 24, 1997 at 20:32:06 PDT
in reply to Re: Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1822), posted by Falcon on August 24, 1997 at 19:21:14 PDT

>
> > > Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.
> > > KC
> > So? I like most around here, dislike Liefeld's art style, but do you really want to see him fail in his life?
> > Albert

> It's not that anyone wants him to fail (at least I don't think so). Just not succeed using ripping off someone else.

> Falcon

Yeah, it ain't right!!! Y'know this reminds me of a certain Simpsons episode where Homer finds some new drink and shares the secret with Moe and he rips it off and takes all the credit for himself and gets all the money and women and fame and Homer gets nothin'!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

BTW, the secret was Cough Syrup!!

Host = bak-ca1-19.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.51)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 24, 1997 at 21:13:49 PDT
in reply to Re: Here is the cover of Captain America #1, you can also use it for the next banner gift (1823), posted by Falcon on August 24, 1997 at 19:23:16 PDT

>
> > > >
> > > > > > Here it is. Oh it is so beautiful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Venom--
> > > > > I don't like it. Is Garney trying to make Cap look like God?
> > > > > Albert
> > > > I think his shield looks too big!
> > >
> > > > Cya
> > > > The Plaid Skull
> > > >
> > > > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!
> > > Actually, I think that's a halo around the shield, making it look bigger. I gotta tell you, that picture is stunning. It just took my breath away.
> > > Tony "Blinded by the Light" Stark
> > It's a nice _drawing_. just damn pretentious, if you ask me.
> > Albert

> I agree. I prefer a nice, uncluttered, down-to-earth picture of Cap. Also, I think computer coloring or photo editing software was used for that image. Just saying.

> Falcon

Yes, that pic is a fake!! It's the same pic as this one except no glowing and the shield is side ways!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-06.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.70)

Posted by Whiskers on August 25, 1997 at 01:21:39 PDT
in reply to Re: Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1820), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 24, 1997 at 19:07:16 PDT

> > Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.
> > KC
> So? I like most around here, dislike Liefeld's art style, but do you really want to see him fail in his life?
> Albert

Yes! That's exactly what I'd like to see. Yeah, I know that's pretty sadistic, but it's Rob Leifeld! They guy who ruined comic books as we knew them! The guy who dismantled what had been going on in the marvel universe for years, only to leave it not long after to start his own independent rip-off titles! The guy who created the first super hero pathetic enough to have to use a gun and wear 10 or 20 pouches all over his body for no apparent reason. The guy who first built a comic book series around the art alone (even though he couldn't draw a decent picture if his life depended on it)! The guy so devoted to his "craft" that he did a Levi's commercial!

As you can tell, if I ever saw Rob Leifeld lying in a ditch somewhere, I'd go over and kick him in the face.

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Posted by Falcon on August 25, 1997 at 05:58:57 PDT
in reply to Re: Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1824), posted by The Plaid Gibbon on August 24, 1997 at 20:32:06 PDT

> >
> > > > Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.
> > > > KC
> > > So? I like most around here, dislike Liefeld's art style, but do you really want to see him fail in his life?
> > > Albert

> > It's not that anyone wants him to fail (at least I don't think so). Just not succeed using ripping off someone else.

> > Falcon

> Yeah, it ain't right!!! Y'know this reminds me of a certain Simpsons episode where Homer finds some new drink and shares the secret with Moe and he rips it off and takes all the credit for himself and gets all the money and women and fame and Homer gets nothin'!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

> BTW, the secret was Cough Syrup!!

Don't worry, Liefeld still hasn't really cashed in on "Flaming" American yet (no, that wasn't a gay joke).

Falcon

Host = mpngate5.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.53)

Posted by Falcon on August 25, 1997 at 06:01:38 PDT
in reply to Re: Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1826), posted by Whiskers on August 25, 1997 at 01:21:39 PDT

> > > Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.
> > > KC
> > So? I like most around here, dislike Liefeld's art style, but do you really want to see him fail in his life?
> > Albert

> Yes! That's exactly what I'd like to see. Yeah, I know that's pretty sadistic, but it's Rob Leifeld! They guy who ruined comic books as we knew them! The guy who dismantled what had been going on in the marvel universe for years, only to leave it not long after to start his own independent rip-off titles! The guy who created the first super hero pathetic enough to have to use a gun and wear 10 or 20 pouches all over his body for no apparent reason. The guy who first built a comic book series around the art alone (even though he couldn't draw a decent picture if his life depended on it)! The guy so devoted to his "craft" that he did a Levi's commercial!

> As you can tell, if I ever saw Rob Leifeld lying in a ditch somewhere, I'd go over and kick him in the face.

Oooh, that's harsh.

Falcon

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Posted by Starving Writer on August 25, 1997 at 15:02:55 PDT
in reply to Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1817), posted by KC on August 24, 1997 at 14:59:27 PDT

> Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.

> KC

Taken from the Official Marvel Website, dated August 21, 1997.

========================

MARVEL FORCES CHANGES TO
FIGHTING AMERICAN COMIC SERIES

NEW YORK, August 21, 1997 -- Publication of Awesome Entertainment's
FIGHTING AMERICAN comic book series will not be allowed without modifications
to their FIGHTING AMERICAN character, it was ordered today by a United States
District Court. This order was issued in response to a motion for preliminary
injunction filed by Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc. against Awesome
Entertainment to prevent infringement of Marvel's copyright and trademarks in its
CAPTAIN AMERICA comic books. The decision was announced today by Joseph
Calamari, President of Marvel Entertainment Group.

Among the more significant court required modifications are that FIGHTING AMERICAN's shield be gray
with the silhouette of a blue eagle, blades be "ejected or shot from the circumference of the shield itself and
the shield shall never be thrown… as a weapon…" FIGHTING AMERICAN is also required to wear a
golden brown cartridge belt and glove and boot cuffs of a golden brown or similar color. The court retained
jurisdiction to promptly hear and act upon motions for injunctive relief should Awesome Entertainment adhere
to their representations or print a version of FIGHTING AMERICAN which is more similar to CAPTAIN
AMERICA.

"The court's decision gives us much of what we ultimately sought, and does so at a very early date," Calamari
said. "We remain free to seek further relief when the case comes to trial. If Rob Liefeld and Awesome had
negotiated in good faith instead of stonewalling when we raised these issues months ago, it would have saved
us all a lot of trouble. As it is, we can wait and see what they do with their FIGHTING AMERICAN comic,
then take any additional action that seems appropriate."

CAPTAIN AMERICA, one of Marvel's oldest and most venerable heroes, has appeared in over 500 issues
of his own magazine as well as hundreds more of THE AVENGERS. He has starred in a movie serial, a
feature film, television cartoons and two television movies.

=============================

Well, Fighting American might continue, but at least it won't be a blanant (sp?) Captain American rip-off. Now it'll be a semi-blanant rip-off. Better than nothing, IMO.

Starving Writer

Host = 150.216.125.21 (150.216.125.21)

Posted by Fighting American on August 25, 1997 at 16:07:31 PDT

I am very sick of your prejuidiceness against Rob Liefeld ! David, I have a
feeling you are erasing my messages all because of my liking Liefeld .
And may I add, Agent America # 1 shall be due out Wednesday this
week . I have recieved this information from my comic book shop
Another World who indicates on his hotline : " Agent America # 1
is due out this Wednesday ( 8/27/97 ) . This should be interest-
ing : We'll see Liefeld's take on a similar character as Captain
America . " The words which I have said may have not been
exactly such as his, but since AA # 1 is already in the UPS
truck heading toward our comic shops there is no stopp-
ing this project now . I shall also remark that reasons for
Fighting American being canned : who knows ? I perso-
nally like the name Agent America more but it does not
matter in the end . Marvel Comics is really getting on
my nerves ! They are just like the goverment : They
butt into peoples' business ! The bottom line :

AGENT AMERICA # 1 is shipping and there is no stopping LIEFELD now !

It's not over until I say it's over !

* Fighting American *

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by Falcon on August 25, 1997 at 16:29:40 PDT
in reply to Leave him alone ! And Agent America # 1 due out this Wednesday ! (1830), posted by Fighting American on August 25, 1997 at 16:07:31 PDT

> I am very sick of your prejuidiceness against Rob Liefeld ! David, I have a
> feeling you are erasing my messages all because of my liking Liefeld .
> And may I add, Agent America # 1 shall be due out Wednesday this
> week . I have recieved this information from my comic book shop
> Another World who indicates on his hotline : " Agent America # 1
> is due out this Wednesday ( 8/27/97 ) . This should be interest-
> ing : We'll see Liefeld's take on a similar character as Captain
> America . " The words which I have said may have not been
> exactly such as his, but since AA # 1 is already in the UPS
> truck heading toward our comic shops there is no stopp-
> ing this project now . I shall also remark that reasons for
> Fighting American being canned : who knows ? I perso-
> nally like the name Agent America more but it does not
> matter in the end . Marvel Comics is really getting on
> my nerves ! They are just like the goverment : They
> butt into peoples' business ! The bottom line :

> AGENT AMERICA # 1 is shipping and there is no stopping LIEFELD now !

> It's not over until I say it's over !

> * Fighting American *

It's not simply a "take"; it's a rip-off. Why can't you realize this? And Mavel is butting into Awesome's business because of this. Also, you're messages are being deleted because, more often than not, they are not Cap related.

Falcon

Host = 34.white-plains-001.ny.dial-access.att.net (207.116.152.34)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 25, 1997 at 16:59:09 PDT
in reply to Leave him alone ! And Agent America # 1 due out this Wednesday ! (1830), posted by Fighting American on August 25, 1997 at 16:07:31 PDT

> I am very sick of your prejuidiceness against Rob Liefeld ! David, I have a
> feeling you are erasing my messages all because of my liking Liefeld.

No, I am erasing non-Cap threads in general, and Agent America/Fighting American posts in particular because (sigh)....

THIS IS NOT A GENERAL COMICS BOARD OR A LIEFIELD BOARD. IT IS A CAPTAIN AMERICA BOARD!!!

Now leave us in peace, willya? I don't care if you like Liefield; I didn't like his work on Cap, but before the first issue came out I was very much a proponent of giving him a fair try, a chance to show us what he could do. See the Star-Spangled Site for the editorial history, if you want to read what my arguements/opinions were.

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 25, 1997 at 17:12:08 PDT
in reply to Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1817), posted by KC on August 24, 1997 at 14:59:27 PDT

> Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.

Actually, its not unfair at all (which was kind of the point of the trial); The Fighting American as outlined in the press releases can't use the shield except as a defensive tool (like Defensor, and several other heroes) - he is specifically prohibited from throwing it ala Cap. The color changes and details to the uniform make him much more 'non-clone' in his appearance than originally. The personalities are undoubtedly going to be much more distinct.

I think that there is now enough 'differencing' to stop harping on the issue, myself. Although I don't like the job Liefield has done with Cap in the past, others do, and I don't begrudge them (or him) that niche.

I just won't buy it... :)

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by KC on August 26, 1997 at 10:35:43 PDT
in reply to Off-Topic Posts in general, and Agent America in particular (Was Re: Leave him alone !) (1832), posted by David Medinnus on August 25, 1997 at 16:59:09 PDT

> > I am very sick of your prejuidiceness against Rob Liefeld ! David, I have a
> > feeling you are erasing my messages all because of my liking Liefeld.

> No, I am erasing non-Cap threads in general, and Agent America/Fighting American posts in particular because (sigh)....

> THIS IS NOT A GENERAL COMICS BOARD OR A LIEFIELD BOARD. IT IS A CAPTAIN AMERICA BOARD!!!

> Now leave us in peace, willya? I don't care if you like Liefield; I didn't like his work on Cap, but before the first issue came out I was very much a proponent of giving him a fair try, a chance to show us what he could do. See the Star-Spangled Site for the editorial history, if you want to read what my arguements/opinions were.

> -DM

I agree.No more Liefeld posts.

KC

Host = feynman.clubi.ie (194.133.100.9)

Posted by Cheshire Cat on August 26, 1997 at 11:45:26 PDT
in reply to Re: Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1824), posted by The Plaid Gibbon on August 24, 1997 at 20:32:06 PDT

> >
> > > > Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.
> > > > KC
> > > So? I like most around here, dislike Liefeld's art style, but do you really want to see him fail in his life?
> > > Albert

> > It's not that anyone wants him to fail (at least I don't think so). Just not succeed using ripping off someone else.

> > Falcon

> Yeah, it ain't right!!! Y'know this reminds me of a certain Simpsons episode where Homer finds some new drink and shares the secret with Moe and he rips it off and takes all the credit for himself and gets all the money and women and fame and Homer gets nothin'!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

>
> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

> BTW, the secret was Cough Syrup!!

I must admit, I have been reading issues of SUPREME, but only because of the excellent writing by Alan Moore, and his ability to take characters that are even rip-offs, and give them a respectable life of their own.
I can't wait to see him start writing Y2, the new YOUNGBLOOD series.
But, I agree completely - - Rob Liefeld doesn't have an original bone in his body.
I mean, what was MARVEL thinking when they gave him CAPTAIN AMERICA for six issues?!?
I curse the day he got a hold of FIGHTING AMERICAN, as I think it was one of the most original concepts by the team of Simon and Kirby - - even moreso than CAPTAIN AMERICA, despite being a rip-off of the shield-slinger.
Also, I don't recall Fighting American using a shield originally, wo why would Liefeld, knowing that everyone perceives him as a complete rip-off artist, want to give the guy an update with a shield, which makes him an even huger rip-off of Cap than he already was?
Oh, I long for the days of Simon and Kirby...
They were the only ones who could do Fighting American right.
I know Jeph Loeb is a capable writer, but working in Liefeld's shadow has made him quite bad...
And how in the world did Liefeld ever get great writers like Loeb and Moore and Jo Duffy working for him???
*SIGH*
Sorry about the long post.

CC

Host = 128.163.171.49 (128.163.171.49)

Posted by Onslaught on August 26, 1997 at 13:42:40 PDT

Cap fans, here is the 1966 cartoon theme wav.

---Onslaught

• Captain America Theme

Host = van-52-0608.direct.ca (204.174.253.8)

Posted by Onslaught on August 26, 1997 at 13:44:17 PDT
in reply to Cartoon Theme wav (1836), posted by Onslaught on August 26, 1997 at 13:42:40 PDT

Cap fans, here is the 1966 cartoon theme Real Audio

---Onslaught

• Captain America Theme

Host = van-52-0608.direct.ca (204.174.253.8)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 26, 1997 at 15:47:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Off-Topic Posts in general, and Agent America in particular (Was Re: Leave him alone !) (1834), posted by KC on August 26, 1997 at 10:35:43 PDT

I agree.No more Liefeld posts.

KC

There can be Liefeld posts as long as they're about his run on Cap, at least that's my understanding.

Tobin

Host = host590.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.78)

Posted by Rimes on August 26, 1997 at 16:50:14 PDT

On August 17, I mentioned that the earliest Dave Hoover work in my collection was in DC's The Wanderers (1988), although i believed he had gotten his start in independent comics. Well, now i know why i thought that. It turns out the oldest Hoover work I have is an issue of FantaSci (Warp Graphics) from 1986. Hoover co-owned the rights to a character named Hunter-XX, for which he did the artwork. Not bad stuff -- more conventional-looking than his flashy Cap art later on. I wish he had employed this more traditional style when he began working for Marvel.

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 17:16:46 PDT

I think it would be a great credit to Marvel if they were to reaquire Rob Liefeld for Captain America.All these other so called artists SUCK!Anyone that
would disagree with me needs to either get their eyes checked or something
else for that matter if you know what mean.You probably dont because you are a
bunch lousy pussies,that have very bad taste in comic books.Captain America
as it is right now sucks Rob Liefeld only did six issues,and they were best
ever.I still cant understand why you people would be as idiotic as to dislike Mr. Liefeld.

One thing before I go I would like make clear that I am
the brother Fighting America also known as Jamie.

Sincerely American Nazi

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 26, 1997 at 17:23:59 PDT
in reply to Rob Liefeld (1840), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 17:16:46 PDT

> I think it would be a great credit to Marvel if they were to reaquire Rob Liefeld for Captain America.All these other so called artists SUCK!Anyone that
> would disagree with me needs to either get their eyes checked or something
> else for that matter if you know what mean.You probably dont because you are a
> bunch lousy pussies,that have very bad taste in comic books.Captain America
> as it is right now sucks Rob Liefeld only did six issues,and they were best
> ever.I still cant understand why you people would be as idiotic as to dislike Mr. Liefeld.

> One thing before I go I would like make clear that I am
> the brother Fighting America also known as Jamie.

> Sincerely American Nazi

Or you're funny, Jamie!! Now for using profanity and for breaking the first Rule of the Message Boards I'm going to report your Jewish-hating, Neo-Nazi, Racist, Skin-Head, @$$ to Sam to see that you get banned PERMANENTLY!! If you wanna talk about Rob Liefield and his rip-off crappy creations build your own friggin' board!!

Cya(not likely though)
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-18.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.82)

Posted by Batroc on August 26, 1997 at 17:24:55 PDT
in reply to Rob Liefeld (1840), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 17:16:46 PDT

> I think it would be a great credit to Marvel if they were to reaquire Rob Liefeld for Captain America.All these other so called artists SUCK!Anyone that
> would disagree with me needs to either get their eyes checked or something
> else for that matter if you know what mean.You probably dont because you are a
> bunch lousy pussies,that have very bad taste in comic books.Captain America
> as it is right now sucks Rob Liefeld only did six issues,and they were best
> ever.I still cant understand why you people would be as idiotic as to dislike Mr. Liefeld.
> One thing before I go I would like make clear that I am
> the brother Fighting America also known as Jamie.
> Sincerely American Nazi
>>The most unkind cut of all,,,,,What can I say to such a tirade...
Your vocabulary has disintigrated once again. I'm disappointed. Calling people who disagree with you idiots is not how to win friends and influence people.
Posts like this make me want to stay on Dave's new board.
Oh well, to make this Cap relevant I am looking forward to Waid's new run. BTL

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 17:31:43 PDT
in reply to Re: Rob Liefeld (1841), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 26, 1997 at 17:23:59 PDT

First off I'm not Jamie I really am his brother,and dont acuse me of being
someone I'm not I really am a Nazi,and I should point out,that I am a Nazi that likes Captain America.You probably are a worthless Jew just trying stir up trouble just for the Hell of it,and for the profanity I would like to say if you dont like Kiss my @$#@$#$#!
Sincerely (American Nazi)

Hi, I'm Jamie here . You are being a bastard to my brother . Damn you !

Jamie

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 26, 1997 at 17:39:24 PDT
in reply to Re: Rob Liefeld (1843), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 17:31:43 PDT

> First off I'm not Jamie I really am his brother,and dont acuse me of being
> someone I'm not I really am a Nazi,and I should point out,that I am a Nazi that likes Captain America.You probably are a worthless Jew just trying stir up trouble just for the Hell of it,and for the profanity I would like to say if you dont like Kiss my @$#@$#$#!
> Sincerely (American Nazi)

> Hi, I'm Jamie here . You are being a bastard to my brother . Damn you !

> Jamie

Yeah, and you're being a moron! And I'm not Jewish and if I was what the hell's wrong with that?! Your little comment just proved my point! You're probably not a nazi but you sure as hell act like one! B'bye, Jamie and say g'bye to your "brother" too! 'Cause I just gave word to the main Moderator to give you the boot! Forever!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

Host = bak-ca2-18.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.82)

Posted by Roscoe on August 26, 1997 at 18:49:42 PDT
in reply to Re: Rob Liefeld (1844), posted by The Plaid Skull on August 26, 1997 at 17:39:24 PDT

> > First off I'm not Jamie I really am his brother,and dont acuse me of being
> > someone I'm not I really am a Nazi,and I should point out,that I am a Nazi that likes Captain America.You probably are a worthless Jew just trying stir up trouble just for the Hell of it,and for the profanity I would like to say if you dont like Kiss my @$#@$#$#!
> > Sincerely (American Nazi)

> > Hi, I'm Jamie here . You are being a bastard to my brother . Damn you !

> > Jamie

>
> Yeah, and you're being a moron! And I'm not Jewish and if I was what the hell's wrong with that?! Your little comment just proved my point! You're probably not a nazi but you sure as hell act like one! B'bye, Jamie and say g'bye to your "brother" too! 'Cause I just gave word to the main Moderator to give you the boot! Forever!

> Cya
> The Plaid Skull

> Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

Thank God. Or Yawhweh. Get these jerks outta here. This is a public forum for discussing Captain America, not for discussing personal political or religious views or attacking others. When these people have been blasted off the boards, let me know over on Dave's; till then you can consider me gone. I'll be happily reading about Bernie Rosenthal.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma5-02.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.98)

Posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 19:28:28 PDT

I really dont understand why you people dislike Rob Liefeld's
art.Okay I'll put aside the insults if you people will give me just one good reason
for dispising his art so much.Lets face it he was the best artist Marvel had,and
now that he's gone Captain America really stinks.This new guy ( well I dont
even know his name )anyway he isnt very good to say the least.I have decided
to stop collecting Captain America,and for good reason too.Rob Liefeld was also
very good at coming up with stories that actually kept the reader interested.This
new guy doesnt have that either.So what can I say Rob Liefeld is a great artist,and I cant wait till his other comics come out.

One more thing before I go.I would like to say that I am
actually a Nazi(National Socialist),but I will put that aside for future reference.

Sincerely (American Nazi)

P.S. I apologize for insulting all of you earlier,and yes I'm really not Jamie!

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 19:39:35 PDT
in reply to Rob Liefeld part 2 (1846), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 19:28:28 PDT

> I really dont understand why you people dislike Rob Liefeld's
> art.Okay I'll put aside the insults if you people will give me just one good reason
> for dispising his art so much.Lets face it he was the best artist Marvel had,and
> now that he's gone Captain America really stinks.This new guy ( well I dont
> even know his name )anyway he isnt very good to say the least.I have decided
> to stop collecting Captain America,and for good reason too.Rob Liefeld was also
> very good at coming up with stories that actually kept the reader interested.This
> new guy doesnt have that either.So what can I say Rob Liefeld is a great artist,and I cant wait till his other comics come out.
> One more thing before I go.I would like to say that I am
> actually a Nazi(National Socialist),but I will put that aside for future reference.
> Sincerely (American Nazi)
> P.S. I apologize for insulting all of you earlier,and yes I'm really not Jamie!
I thought Socialist were communists...no, that's not right...anyways...
1) The lack of background art
2) The horrible faces he gives people. They look constipated.
3) his horrible figure proportions.
4) His horrible panel-to-panel consisitency.
5) His horrible layouts, way too splash-page heavy.
6) his horriblee character designs.
7) His inablity to stick with a project.
8)His inability to stay with Image.
9)His inablity to pay the people who owrk for him.
10) His complete lack of creativity.
11) He just sucks. But to be honest, as much as I hate his art, I harbor no ill-will to his person, or wish him to fail. From what I've heard, he's quite nice with the fans, and not a bad guy.

Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 19:52:29 PDT
in reply to Rob Liefeld part 2 (1846), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 19:28:28 PDT

> I really dont understand why you people dislike Rob Liefeld's
> art.Okay I'll put aside the insults if you people will give me just one good reason
> for dispising his art so much.Lets face it he was the best artist Marvel had,and
> now that he's gone Captain America really stinks.This new guy ( well I dont
> even know his name )anyway he isnt very good to say the least.I have decided
> to stop collecting Captain America,and for good reason too.Rob Liefeld was also
> very good at coming up with stories that actually kept the reader interested.This
> new guy doesnt have that either.So what can I say Rob Liefeld is a great artist,and I cant wait till his other comics come out.
> One more thing before I go.I would like to say that I am
> actually a Nazi(National Socialist),but I will put that aside for future reference.
> Sincerely (American Nazi)
> P.S. I apologize for insulting all of you earlier,and yes I'm really not Jamie!
if you're really a Nazi, why do you give a crap about CAPTAIN AMERICA????? Unless you root for teh Red Skull each time...
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 26, 1997 at 19:59:48 PDT
in reply to One more thing... (1848), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 19:52:29 PDT

> > I really dont understand why you people dislike Rob Liefeld's
> > art.Okay I'll put aside the insults if you people will give me just one good reason
> > for dispising his art so much.Lets face it he was the best artist Marvel had,and
> > now that he's gone Captain America really stinks.This new guy ( well I dont
> > even know his name )anyway he isnt very good to say the least.I have decided
> > to stop collecting Captain America,and for good reason too.Rob Liefeld was also
> > very good at coming up with stories that actually kept the reader interested.This
> > new guy doesnt have that either.So what can I say Rob Liefeld is a great artist,and I cant wait till his other comics come out.
> > One more thing before I go.I would like to say that I am
> > actually a Nazi(National Socialist),but I will put that aside for future reference.
> > Sincerely (American Nazi)
> > P.S. I apologize for insulting all of you earlier,and yes I'm really not Jamie!
> if you're really a Nazi, why do you give a crap about CAPTAIN AMERICA????? Unless you root for teh Red Skull each time...
> Albert

Yeah, Cap is disgusted and fights against everything the Nazis stand for and the Skull isn't a Nazi anymore! I heard he renounced the Nazi ideals!

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca2-05.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.69)

Posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 20:00:24 PDT

I really dont know what you're talking about.I mean you're just way
of the wall first off Rob doesnt draw facial expression like they're constipated
and secondly he does the best layouts of any artist I've ever seen,come
to think of it I enjoy looking at his sketches more than I like to look at this new
guys finished art.

Sincerely (American Nazi)

P.S. National Socialism is not Communism National Socialism (more commonly
known as Nazism) is totally the opposite of communism.If you really want
to know the truth about National Socialism check out the website of the
National Socialist White People's Party at (http://www.nswpp.org/).Check
them out and than write me at storm@frazmtn.com and tell me what you thought!

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by Batroc on August 26, 1997 at 20:08:53 PDT

>>> The Skull is no longer a Nazi. He is no longer loyal to Hitler. He trapped Hitler/Hatemonger in the Cosmic Cube in MSVTU #17 and worked
against him recently in Waid's Cap. The Skull believes in weakening the American spirit by distributing drugs such as "Ice" in America.
For the Skull's soliloquy on his ideals, see the last chapter of Streets of Poison (#378?) when he is talking shop with the Kingpin. This is right before the Kingpin kicks his arse. BTL

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 20:10:29 PDT

Yes,I know Captain America is against everything Nazis stand for,and
let me tell you why I like Captain America first off Rob Liefelds art,and secondly
I like to just sit down and chuckle as I read just how hard they trie to demonize
Nazism.It's a very slanted comic yes I will admit that but if you really knew
the truth about our founding fathers (the people who wrote the constitution)
you would come to realize that Nazism is actually as American as an apple pie.

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 20:19:41 PDT
in reply to one more thing (1852), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 20:10:29 PDT

> Yes,I know Captain America is against everything Nazis stand for,and
> let me tell you why I like Captain America first off Rob Liefelds art,and secondly
> I like to just sit down and chuckle as I read just how hard they trie to demonize
> Nazism.It's a very slanted comic yes I will admit that but if you really knew
> the truth about our founding fathers (the people who wrote the constitution)
> you would come to realize that Nazism is actually as American as an apple pie.
I really suggest that you and your psychologist have a long talk about increasing your behavioral medication and electro-shock treatments.
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 20:21:26 PDT
in reply to Rob Liefeld part 2 (1850), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 20:00:24 PDT

> I really dont know what you're talking about.I mean you're just way
> of the wall first off Rob doesnt draw facial expression like they're constipated
> and secondly he does the best layouts of any artist I've ever seen,come
> to think of it I enjoy looking at his sketches more than I like to look at this new
> guys finished art.
> Sincerely (American Nazi)
> P.S. National Socialism is not Communism National Socialism (more commonly
> known as Nazism) is totally the opposite of communism.If you really want
> to know the truth about National Socialism check out the website of the
> National Socialist White People's Party at (http://www.nswpp.org/).Check
> them out and than write me at storm@frazmtn.com and tell me what you thought!
You are soooo banned times a million. Lay off the booze, I'll see you on Jerry Springer. Kick David Duke in the nads for me, willya? Please leave. Bigots aren't welcome here.
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Batroc on August 26, 1997 at 20:21:50 PDT
in reply to The New Philosophy Red Skull (1851), posted by Batroc on August 26, 1997 at 20:08:53 PDT

> >>> The Skull is no longer a Nazi. He is no longer loyal to Hitler. He trapped Hitler/Hatemonger in the Cosmic Cube in MSVTU #17 and worked
> against him recently in Waid's Cap. The Skull believes in weakening the American spirit by distributing drugs such as "Ice" in America.
> For the Skull's soliloquy on his ideals, see the last chapter of Streets of Poison (#378?) when he is talking shop with the Kingpin. This is right before the Kingpin kicks his arse. BTL
>>> I believe America to be a weak, morally bankrupt country whose
societal underpinnings are being eaten away. It is my goal to speed up that process. Drugs are one means to achielve this. Get enough addicts and drug dependent persons and America will
crumble from corruption and violent crime----The Red Skull pg. 4, Cap #378 (vol. 1)
I just had to look it up. Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on August 26, 1997 at 20:29:10 PDT
in reply to AN, making communism sound attractive.... (1854), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 20:21:26 PDT

> > I really dont know what you're talking about.I mean you're just way
> > of the wall first off Rob doesnt draw facial expression like they're constipated
> > and secondly he does the best layouts of any artist I've ever seen,come
> > to think of it I enjoy looking at his sketches more than I like to look at this new
> > guys finished art.
> > Sincerely (American Nazi)
> > P.S. National Socialism is not Communism National Socialism (more commonly
> > known as Nazism) is totally the opposite of communism.If you really want
> > to know the truth about National Socialism check out the website of the
> > National Socialist White People's Party at (http://www.nswpp.org/).Check
> > them out and than write me at storm@frazmtn.com and tell me what you thought!
> You are soooo banned times a million. Lay off the booze, I'll see you on Jerry Springer. Kick David Duke in the nads for me, willya? Please leave. Bigots aren't welcome here.
> Albert
>>>Forget Jamie and Fighting Nazi. Come to Dave's new board, it's a gas. I don't think Fighting Nazi will get a password from Dave.
To make this Cap relevant, Captain America is the greatest of the comic heroes. Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Paradox on August 26, 1997 at 20:46:13 PDT
in reply to Off-Topic Posts in general, and Agent America in particular (Was Re: Leave him alone !) (1832), posted by David Medinnus on August 25, 1997 at 16:59:09 PDT

> No, I am erasing non-Cap threads in general, and Agent America/Fighting American posts in particular because (sigh)....

> THIS IS NOT A GENERAL COMICS BOARD OR A LIEFIELD BOARD. IT IS A CAPTAIN AMERICA BOARD!!!

> Now leave us in peace, willya? I don't care if you like Liefield; I didn't like his work on Cap, but before the first issue came out I was very much a proponent of giving him a fair try, a chance to show us what he could do. See the Star-Spangled Site for the editorial history, if you want to read what my arguements/opinions were.

> -DM

Y'know, David, ordinarily I'd be saying, I know this is your board to moderate, but, there ought to be room here to talk about all the patriotic heroes and the creative forces behind them. But, I won't, because this whole Cap vs. Fighting American nonsense has gotten completely out of hand! You'd think people would have run out of things to discuss about it, but, it's the same junk over and over, ad nauseum. So, in this case, I have to agree with your restrictions.

Oh, and one more thing. To whom it may concern, the jerk's name is Liefeld, not Liefield!

'Dox out.

Host = pm062-16.spindler.wmich.edu (141.218.241.217)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 20:46:47 PDT
in reply to Dear Albert, We are so sorry Uncle Albert.... (1856), posted by Batroc on August 26, 1997 at 20:29:10 PDT

> > > I really dont know what you're talking about.I mean you're just way
> > > of the wall first off Rob doesnt draw facial expression like they're constipated
> > > and secondly he does the best layouts of any artist I've ever seen,come
> > > to think of it I enjoy looking at his sketches more than I like to look at this new
> > > guys finished art.
> > > Sincerely (American Nazi)
> > > P.S. National Socialism is not Communism National Socialism (more commonly
> > > known as Nazism) is totally the opposite of communism.If you really want
> > > to know the truth about National Socialism check out the website of the
> > > National Socialist White People's Party at (http://www.nswpp.org/).Check
> > > them out and than write me at storm@frazmtn.com and tell me what you thought!
> > You are soooo banned times a million. Lay off the booze, I'll see you on Jerry Springer. Kick David Duke in the nads for me, willya? Please leave. Bigots aren't welcome here.
> > Albert
> >>>Forget Jamie and Fighting Nazi. Come to Dave's new board, it's a gas. I don't think Fighting Nazi will get a password from Dave.
> To make this Cap relevant, Captain America is the greatest of the comic heroes. Batroc the Leaper
What's the URL?
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Rimes on August 26, 1997 at 23:49:48 PDT

Hey, I just tried going to Michael Kaiser's "Sentinel of Liberty" webpage to get some info for some posts I'm planning (concerning appearances of Cap outside his own title through the years) and it said there was an "error." No page. Anyone else having this trouble?

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by razi ingber on August 27, 1997 at 02:52:02 PDT

who do you think will win: batman or captain america?

Host = her-b18.access.net.il (192.116.198.141)

Posted by Falcon on August 27, 1997 at 05:34:34 PDT
in reply to Re: Rob Liefeld (1845), posted by Roscoe on August 26, 1997 at 18:49:42 PDT

> > > First off I'm not Jamie I really am his brother,and dont acuse me of being
> > > someone I'm not I really am a Nazi,and I should point out,that I am a Nazi that likes Captain America.You probably are a worthless Jew just trying stir up trouble just for the Hell of it,and for the profanity I would like to say if you dont like Kiss my @$#@$#$#!
> > > Sincerely (American Nazi)

>
> > > Hi, I'm Jamie here . You are being a bastard to my brother . Damn you !

> > > Jamie

> >
> > Yeah, and you're being a moron! And I'm not Jewish and if I was what the hell's wrong with that?! Your little comment just proved my point! You're probably not a nazi but you sure as hell act like one! B'bye, Jamie and say g'bye to your "brother" too! 'Cause I just gave word to the main Moderator to give you the boot! Forever!

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

>
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

> Thank God. Or Yawhweh. Get these jerks outta here. This is a public forum for discussing Captain America, not for discussing personal political or religious views or attacking others. When these people have been blasted off the boards, let me know over on Dave's; till then you can consider me gone. I'll be happily reading about Bernie Rosenthal.

> -Roscoe

What the heck was that all about. Whatever, it's about time Mr. "Bristlecone" was banned.

Falcon

Host = gate3.ny.us.ibm.com (198.133.22.20)

Posted by Falcon on August 27, 1997 at 05:45:48 PDT
in reply to Re: Rob Liefeld part 2 (1847), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 19:39:35 PDT

> I thought Socialist were communists...no, that's not right...anyways...
> 1) The lack of background art
> 2) The horrible faces he gives people. They look constipated.
> 3) his horrible figure proportions.
> 4) His horrible panel-to-panel consisitency.
> 5) His horrible layouts, way too splash-page heavy.
> 6) his horriblee character designs.
> 7) His inablity to stick with a project.
8)His inability to stay with Image.
9)His inablity to pay the people who owrk for him.
10) His complete lack of creativity.
11) He just sucks. But to be honest, as much as I hate his art, I harbor no ill-will to his person, or wish him to fail. From what I've heard, he's quite nice with the fans, and not a bad guy.

Albert

Yeah, I heard Rob was a nice, humble guy, but he seems to have developed an ego. In Liefeld's defense, I would have to say he designed some good costumes, but other than that, Albert pretty much hit the nail on the head. It confounds me how anyone can think Liefeld's art is great or even halfway decent. His current style is pretty much based on the styles of his former Image peers, or didn't you notice, A. Nazi?; very poorly, too, I might add. Face it, his comics books don't consist of sequential storytelling but instead, a collection of ugly pin-ups. I hate to knock your favorite creator, but you seem to be awfully narrow-minded about this. You need to look at some other comic book artwork before you make the judgement that Liefeld is the best.

Falcon

Host = gate3.ny.us.ibm.com (198.133.22.20)

Posted by Falcon on August 27, 1997 at 05:50:18 PDT
in reply to batman vs. captain america! (1860), posted by razi ingber on August 27, 1997 at 02:52:02 PDT

> who do you think will win: batman or captain america?

The good Captain, all the way!

Falcon

Host = gate3.ny.us.ibm.com (198.133.22.20)

Posted by Bubba2 on August 27, 1997 at 07:16:08 PDT
in reply to Rob Liefeld part 2 (1846), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 19:28:28 PDT

> I really dont understand why you people dislike Rob Liefeld's
> art.Okay I'll put aside the insults if you people will give me just one good reason
> for dispising his art so much. So what can I say Rob Liefeld is a great artist,and I cant wait till his other comics come out.

My dear befuddled and obviously misguided comics reader, if you don't understand why people despise (please note the spelling here!) Liefeld's art, it's just because you haven't been on this board for long. Let's look at Rob's Craptain (note: I meant to spell it that way) America #1--go get your copy, I'll wait! . . . . (Jeopardy theme here) . . . . Okay, ready? Here we go--flip through your issue and answer these questions:

1. How tall is Steve/Cap? Six feet, nine feet, or is he using Pym particles?

2. How does the shield switch arms between panels without Steve/Cap actually moving it? Can you say, "Inconsistency on the part of the artist?"

3. How does Steve's robot bride stand without feet?

4. Watch the disappearing gloves in the fight scene! Does Steve have on one glove, two gloves, or does he take "time outs" during the fight to switch so as to confuse the reader?

5. How does a television work if it isn't plugged in?

6. Look at Buckette sitting ABOVE the stairs. How does she hover like that?

7. Is the shield sharp or not? One moment it slices up the bad guy, the next moment Steve catches it with his BARE hand!

8. Check out Steve's dream sequences. See those feet? You could cut someone with pointed toes like that! Is this the Tarantula or Cap? (Bonus Question: why does Cap have his boots on the wrong feet?)

9. Why do all the bad guys look like Spider-Man?

Well, by now you've quit playing anyway, so I'll quit asking questions. Rest assured that if you want some more critiques (and I remind you that these are just from ONE comic!), just let me know!

> One more thing before I go.I would like to say that I am
> actually a Nazi(National Socialist),but I will put that aside for future reference.

Oh yeah, Bubba can't pass this little note up! If you are actually a Nazi, then please tell me what book Hitler read in prison and who ran as your party's presidential candidate in the last election. Bonus points if you spell both answers right (which I'm sure you cannot do, since you are some fourth grader trying to stir up trouble). One more thing, A. Nazi, the Jews are gonna get you and I'm telling them where you are. My relatives shed a lot of blood to defeat ideologies like yours, and I can't stomach the idea that idiots like you are still around in a free society. Someday, snakes like you and the KKK will be gone, and no tears will be shed!

Happy Birthday,

Bubba2

Host = leo-percer.baylor.edu (129.62.3.126)

Posted by inhuman 2000 on August 27, 1997 at 09:08:57 PDT

heh heh ha ha yaaaaaaaa...........that it.

Host = 205.165.166.135 (205.165.166.135)

Posted by razi ingber on August 27, 1997 at 09:15:00 PDT
in reply to Re: batman vs. captain america! (1863), posted by Falcon on August 27, 1997 at 05:50:18 PDT

> > who do you think will win: batman or captain america?

>
> The good Captain, all the way!

> Falcon

falcon, you said that captain america will beat him, but you didnt
say how. how does he gonna beat him?

Host = her-b23.access.net.il (192.116.198.146)

Posted by Swashbuckler on August 27, 1997 at 09:19:39 PDT
in reply to Re: one more thing (1853), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 26, 1997 at 20:19:41 PDT

> > Yes,I know Captain America is against everything Nazis stand for,and
> > let me tell you why I like Captain America first off Rob Liefelds art,and secondly
> > I like to just sit down and chuckle as I read just how hard they trie to demonize
> > Nazism.It's a very slanted comic yes I will admit that but if you really knew
> > the truth about our founding fathers (the people who wrote the constitution)
> > you would come to realize that Nazism is actually as American as an apple pie.
> I really suggest that you and your psychologist have a long talk about increasing your behavioral medication and electro-shock treatments.
> Albert

This "American Nazi" is a fool. I suggest we simply ignore his idiocy until he goes away.

... If we only knew the truth? I'm a Historian with a degree in European History & I'm only one course away from a degree in American History (not to mention a degree in English lit, to boot). This jerk has it all backwards, and everyone here knows it.

American Nazi needs help, and he needs it fast.

-- Swashbuckler

Host = grgtma-01-61.port.shore.net (204.167.111.61)

Posted by Falcon on August 27, 1997 at 10:01:13 PDT
in reply to Re: batman vs. captain america! of falcon (1866), posted by razi ingber on August 27, 1997 at 09:15:00 PDT

> > > who do you think will win: batman or captain america?

> >
> > The good Captain, all the way!

> > Falcon

> falcon, you said that captain america will beat him, but you didnt
> say how. how does he gonna beat him?

Well you didn't ask how, you just asked who. As to how Cap would beat him, I think Cap has an edge when it comes to the arts of combat; a slight edge, perhaps, but enough to make the difference. There have been some arguments as to how Bats is more agile in that he's more at home among the rooftops. But that doesn't seem to hold much water because Cap is just about as agile when leaping from rooftop to rooftop, this without the aid of grappling hooks, I might add. He's in Daredevil's league, who can swing with Bats any day.

Falcon

Host = mpngate4.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.52)

Posted by Shade on August 27, 1997 at 10:33:58 PDT
in reply to one more thing (1852), posted by (American Nazi) on August 26, 1997 at 20:10:29 PDT

> Yes,I know Captain America is against everything Nazis stand for,and
> let me tell you why I like Captain America first off Rob Liefelds art,and secondly
> I like to just sit down and chuckle as I read just how hard they trie to demonize
> Nazism.It's a very slanted comic yes I will admit that but if you really knew
> the truth about our founding fathers (the people who wrote the constitution)
> you would come to realize that Nazism is actually as American as an apple pie.

Hey A.N. I usually try to welcome all new posters to these boards and I can see your out to make friends fast. To make the statement that Nazism is as American as apple pie is really a bad analogy. If this were the case more than likely you would not have the freedom you have to spout of this narrowminded dribble you present. Fortunately I believe whole heartedly in your right to express your views no matter how idiotic I feel they are. I will probably read your posts just because I like to just sit down and read jsut how hard they trie to popularize Nazism. Your a very slanted individual yes but if you really knew the truth about Hitler you would come to realize your just a patsy in a crazy dead mans game.

Host = gate.twi.com (207.25.35.3)

Posted by KC on August 27, 1997 at 10:38:33 PDT

Last time I looked Fighting American or Rob Liefeld have nothing to do with Cap.So why arent these messages being deleted?

KC

Host = meson.clubi.ie (194.133.100.27)

Posted by Alvaro on August 27, 1997 at 10:53:56 PDT
in reply to This crap.... (1870), posted by KC on August 27, 1997 at 10:38:33 PDT

> Last time I looked Fighting American or Rob Liefeld have nothing to do with Cap.So why arent these messages being deleted?

>
> KC

They are being deleted, just ask Dave.
And for the record, Jamie aka "American Nazi" has been permanently banned.

Alvaro

• Rap about Cap

Host = 200.25.86.230 (200.25.86.230)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 27, 1997 at 13:19:23 PDT
in reply to Re: I agree (1871), posted by Alvaro on August 27, 1997 at 10:53:56 PDT

> > Last time I looked Fighting American or Rob Liefeld have nothing to do with Cap.So why arent these messages being deleted?

> >
> > KC

> They are being deleted, just ask Dave.
> And for the record, Jamie aka "American Nazi" has been permanently banned.

> Alvaro

How and why?????

Host = 155.42.31.219 (155.42.31.219)

Posted by Sam on August 27, 1997 at 13:32:35 PDT

Thanks to doughnut for posting this picture. I thought it'd make a nice banner for the time being. (it sure beats that Red Skull one that Plaidy gave me to put up :->)(Hi Phil!!!)

Enjoy
Sam

Host = cmtn021p14.mtn.micron.net (207.70.25.66)

Posted by Sam on August 27, 1997 at 13:34:44 PDT
in reply to Re: I agree (1871), posted by Alvaro on August 27, 1997 at 10:53:56 PDT

> They are being deleted, just ask Dave.
> And for the record, Jamie aka "American Nazi" has been permanently banned.

> Alvaro

Hey Alvaro!!! Is it really you, ya big Swedish Weenie!!! Email me and let's talk.

The Real Sam (last I checked that is):-)

Host = cmtn021p14.mtn.micron.net (207.70.25.66)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on August 27, 1997 at 14:04:12 PDT
in reply to Is "Sentinel of Liberty" webpage still up? (1859), posted by Rimes on August 26, 1997 at 23:49:48 PDT

> Hey, I just tried going to Michael Kaiser's "Sentinel of Liberty" webpage to get some info for some posts I'm planning (concerning appearances of Cap outside his own title through the years) and it said there was an "error." No page. Anyone else having this trouble?

Nope, it came down about a month ago. I miss it.

-DM

Host = 205.180.68.69 (205.180.68.69)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 27, 1997 at 14:06:23 PDT
in reply to I Guess I See Your Point (1857), posted by Paradox on August 26, 1997 at 20:46:13 PDT

> Y'know, David, ordinarily I'd be saying, I know this is your board to moderate, but, there ought to be room here to talk about all the patriotic heroes and the creative forces behind them. But, I won't, because this whole Cap vs. Fighting American nonsense has gotten completely out of hand! You'd think people would have run out of things to discuss about it, but, it's the same junk over and over, ad nauseum. So, in this case, I have to agree with your restrictions.

I let the topics and so forth slide a little bit on the side of not being restrictive, but when I started getting complaints, I had to take steps. I'm really pretty laid back. Really.

> Oh, and one more thing. To whom it may concern, the jerk's name is Liefeld, not Liefield!

Dohhh! Oooops.

Host = 205.180.68.69 (205.180.68.69)

Posted by Roscoe on August 27, 1997 at 15:38:57 PDT
in reply to Permanently Banned??? (1872), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 27, 1997 at 13:19:23 PDT

> > > Last time I looked Fighting American or Rob Liefeld have nothing to do with Cap.So why arent these messages being deleted?

> > >
> > > KC

> > They are being deleted, just ask Dave.
> > And for the record, Jamie aka "American Nazi" has been permanently banned.

> > Alvaro

> How and why?????

Because he posted several violently anti-jewish comments and attacked members of the board. I for one am very glad to see him gone and have, in fact, stricken the name Jamie from my vocabulary. I will now refer to anyone named Jamie as "dude" if need be.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma2-03.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.67)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 27, 1997 at 16:57:00 PDT

>>>On my favorite, bestest, board......I thought I was the voice of reason in the American Nazi/Jamie tirade.
But I was part of the thread so I understand.
>>>The only bad thing is that Albert wanted info on how to register for "Rap with Cap".
Albert should pass muster and get a password in my humble opinion.
Hey Albert, refer to the Star Spangled Site and register will ya!!!
For that is the way of honor, the way of BATROC THE LEAPER!!

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on August 27, 1997 at 17:00:22 PDT
in reply to Alright...who are you and where's the Real Alvaro??? (1874), posted by Sam on August 27, 1997 at 13:34:44 PDT

> > They are being deleted, just ask Dave.
> > And for the record, Jamie aka "American Nazi" has been permanently banned.
> > Alvaro
> Hey Alvaro!!! Is it really you, ya big Swedish Weenie!!! Email me and let's talk.
> The Real Sam (last I checked that is):-)
>>>> I hate to say it but Jamie had it coming. If this is the real Alvaro, thanks for the Board space and
"Diamond" Dave Medinnus is a good moderator even if he won't hang out on the chat board late at night. Now THAT is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper.

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Anthony on August 27, 1997 at 17:54:57 PDT
in reply to batman vs. captain america! (1860), posted by razi ingber on August 27, 1997 at 02:52:02 PDT

> who do you think will win: batman or captain america?

Hm...you ask on the captain america board, and expect unbiased answers ;).

As far as the only published instance it has come up, in Marvel vs DC Batman won. Given that the result of that fight was determined by fan votes, this should hardly be considered accurate (Wolverine beat Lobo, which is flat-out ridiculous, seeing as Lobo thinks getting into a brawl with Superman is fun).

Based on history within the respective comic books, its a bit hard to say. However, Captain America goes up against super-powered threats quite a bit more often than Batman, so in terms of raw fighting prowess Captain America is probably better. As such, if you grabbed the two of them, tossed them into an arena, and gave them some reason to actually fight each other, I'd probably bet on Captain America.

However, in most other situations I'd have to go with Batman, because he's stealthy and he'd willingly cheat.

Host = 205.227.88.50 (205.227.88.50)

Posted by Swashbuckler on August 27, 1997 at 20:53:33 PDT
in reply to How's that for the new banner? (1873), posted by Sam on August 27, 1997 at 13:32:35 PDT

> Thanks to doughnut for posting this picture. I thought it'd make a nice banner for the time being. (it sure beats that Red Skull one that Plaidy gave me to put up :->)(Hi Phil!!!)

> Enjoy
> Sam

Hey, that's a beauty, Sam! But I really like the cover to the new Cap # 1 even more!

-- Swashbuckler

Host = grgtma-01-50.port.shore.net (204.167.111.50)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 27, 1997 at 21:04:12 PDT
in reply to Re: How's that for the new banner? (1881), posted by Swashbuckler on August 27, 1997 at 20:53:33 PDT

»
> > Thanks to doughnut for posting this picture. I thought it'd make a nice banner for the time being. (it sure beats that Red Skull one that Plaidy gave me to put up :->)(Hi Phil!!!)
> > Enjoy
> > Sam
> Hey, that's a beauty, Sam! But I really like the cover to the new Cap # 1 even more!
> -- Swashbuckler
>>>Please consider my namesakes only pic from the Star Spangled images.
If only for a day, my moment of glory. Think about it. Warhol said every person has a moment of fame.
Respectfully submitted, Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Roscoe on August 27, 1997 at 22:16:13 PDT
in reply to What about me (whining and groveling) !!??!! (1882), posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 27, 1997 at 21:04:12 PDT

> »
> > > Thanks to doughnut for posting this picture. I thought it'd make a nice banner for the time being. (it sure beats that Red Skull one that Plaidy gave me to put up :->)(Hi Phil!!!)
> > > Enjoy
> > > Sam
> > Hey, that's a beauty, Sam! But I really like the cover to the new Cap # 1 even more!
> > -- Swashbuckler
> >>>Please consider my namesakes only pic from the Star Spangled images.
> If only for a day, my moment of glory. Think about it. Warhol said every person has a moment of fame.
> Respectfully submitted, Batroc the Leaper

Hey, c'mon. If that mustachioed wierdo gets his picture up, I should have mine up for a bit too. I mean, I actually was Cap for 2 or 3 issues. Gimme some props.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma1-10.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.42)

Posted by Brother Voodoo on August 28, 1997 at 07:15:59 PDT
in reply to Re: batman vs. captain america! of falcon (1868), posted by Falcon on August 27, 1997 at 10:01:13 PDT

>
> Well you didn't ask how, you just asked who. As to how Cap would beat him, I think Cap has an edge when it comes to the arts of combat; a slight edge, perhaps, but enough to make the difference. There have been some arguments as to how Bats is more agile in that he's more at home among the rooftops. But that doesn't seem to hold much water because Cap is just about as agile when leaping from rooftop to rooftop, this without the aid of grappling hooks, I might add. He's in Daredevil's league, who can swing with Bats any day.

> Falcon

Also, unless it has been retconned, Captain America is considerably more powerful than Batman. His 1987 Marvel Universe profile indicates that he is able to press 750 lb (with supreme effort - if memory serves).I have historically been a big fan of Batman, and he is a big guy.

But I remember a few years ago, (in the real world) a weightlifting contest among big athletes (a shotputter, Lou Ferrigno, some big-ass football player, etc) where the strongest of these huge guys could only press like 320 lb over their heads. Giving Batman some slack, and assuming he can press a little more - he is still only maybe half as strong as Captain America.

So in addition to his amazingly honed battle skills (which I would agree must exceed - even slightly - Batman's very formidable skills) Cap would also have a significant advantage in strength.

Again, unless retconned, didn't the Super Soldier treatment also give Cap enhanced stamina and an enhanced ability to elminate fatigue poisons from his body? This could also give him the edge in a drawn out battle.

Just my thougths,

Brother Voodoo

Host = KRYPTON.AIRLIQUIDE.COM (198.64.54.253)

Posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 28, 1997 at 07:51:39 PDT
in reply to Re: Permanently Banned??? (1877), posted by Roscoe on August 27, 1997 at 15:38:57 PDT

> > > > Last time I looked Fighting American or Rob Liefeld have nothing to do with Cap.So why arent these messages being deleted?

> > > >
> > > > KC

> > > They are being deleted, just ask Dave.
> > > And for the record, Jamie aka "American Nazi" has been permanently banned.

> > > Alvaro

> > How and why?????

> Because he posted several violently anti-jewish comments and attacked members of the board. I for one am very glad to see him gone and have, in fact, stricken the name Jamie from my vocabulary. I will now refer to anyone named Jamie as "dude" if need be.

> -Roscoe

How do you permanently ban someone from coming here????

An Inquisitive Ned

Host = 155.42.31.219 (155.42.31.219)

Posted by Falcon on August 28, 1997 at 09:16:49 PDT
in reply to Re: Batman vs. Captain America! (1884), posted by Brother Voodoo on August 28, 1997 at 07:15:59 PDT

> >
> > Well you didn't ask how, you just asked who. As to how Cap would beat him, I think Cap has an edge when it comes to the arts of combat; a slight edge, perhaps, but enough to make the difference. There have been some arguments as to how Bats is more agile in that he's more at home among the rooftops. But that doesn't seem to hold much water because Cap is just about as agile when leaping from rooftop to rooftop, this without the aid of grappling hooks, I might add. He's in Daredevil's league, who can swing with Bats any day.

> > Falcon

> Also, unless it has been retconned, Captain America is considerably more powerful than Batman. His 1987 Marvel Universe profile indicates that he is able to press 750 lb (with supreme effort - if memory serves).I have historically been a big fan of Batman, and he is a big guy.

> But I remember a few years ago, (in the real world) a weightlifting contest among big athletes (a shotputter, Lou Ferrigno, some big-ass football player, etc) where the strongest of these huge guys could only press like 320 lb over their heads. Giving Batman some slack, and assuming he can press a little more - he is still only maybe half as strong as Captain America.

> So in addition to his amazingly honed battle skills (which I would agree must exceed - even slightly - Batman's very formidable skills) Cap would also have a significant advantage in strength.

> Again, unless retconned, didn't the Super Soldier treatment also give Cap enhanced stamina and an enhanced ability to elminate fatigue poisons from his body? This could also give him the edge in a drawn out battle.

> Just my thougths,

> Brother Voodoo

I don't know if Cap's stats have been retconned, but I would think (and hope) not. Also, another advantage of Cap's is the lack of a cape, which can be a liability in some cases.

Falcon

Host = mpngate5.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.53)

Posted by Rimes on August 28, 1997 at 23:23:21 PDT

Stopped in to my local comics shop today and picked up two thick books. One was the latest issue of Previews, which i order from each month, and the other was the new Jack Kirby Collector tradeback which collects the first nine issues of the fanzine devoted to Kirby's work. (I had ordered the latter book from a previous issue of the former, in fact.)

I highly recommend the Kirby book for anyone who is interested in Kirby's rendition of Cap or Cap history, and any fan of comics history in general. The zine takes an interesting approach to Kirby's career, often printing alternate versions of the published pages he drew -- thus, we get to see them in their original penciled form before being inked by others, rejected pages and covers, finished but unpublished or scarce work, convention sketches, and even familiar pages shot directly from the original, completed pages but with handwriting visible on the margins.

The Cap-related material in this book include:

- p.7: half-page pencil sketch from Marvelmania
- p.17: original pencil art for Cap #101 page 4 & #193 page 23
- p.27: tiny reproduction of Cap Marvelmania button (head shot)
-p.29: half-page full-figure pencil sketch of Cap
-p.35: great Sinnott-inked full-figure shot of Cap & The Thing
-p.44: great full-figure drawing of Cap with Capt Britain!!
-p. 47: shows Kirby's drawing of Cap on cover of Fantasy Masterpieces #4 as the only 1960s Marvel art that Kirby inked himself
-p.49: terrific Cap & Bucky art
-p.53: penciled sketch of Cap's head on page with Cap quiz
-p.54-55: Joe Simon interview
-p.56-57: various Cap articles, including a pencil sketch of #193's splash page
-p.58: article on The Red Skull
-p.59: uninked versions of Cap #204 page 3 & #103 page 8.
-p.62: uninked version of Cap #101 page 10 & a pencil sketch of Cap (holding a gun!)
-p.68: comparison of how different three panels from #101-102 looked when Kirby penciled them and how they looked when published
-p.85: tiny reproduction of the cover of Marvelmania #1 (Vol. 1, 1969), featuring Cap.
-p.130: uninked pencils for Cap #103 page 17.
-p.136: info & splash page reproductions of The Young Allies
-p.164-167: Jim Steranko article about Kirby. Steranko mentions talking with famed illustrator Frank Frazetta, who "admitted that Kirby's work had cast an artistic spell on his own approach, especially citing the anatomical breakthroughs of Captain America and the Newsboy Legion."
-p.166: uninked pencils for Cap #103 page 18.
-p.169: full-figure pencil sketch of Cap
-p.170: full-figure pencil sketch of Cap from 1985
-p.172: full-figure drawing of Cap (not well-inked, in my opinion)
-p.172-176: Steranko interviews Kirby (& Alex Toth) at a 1972 convention
-p.175: full-figure pencil sketch of Cap (a rushed convention sketch)
-p.177: uninked pencils for Cap annual #4 splash page
-p.178-179: uninked pencils for Cap #103 page 15. Has Stan Lee's handwriting in the margins indicating Sharon's hairstyle should be changed; comparison to the page as published shows that the inker followed Lee's suggestion.

Cap also appears in some drawings with other Marvel heroes (such as the drawing used for the book's cover).

The book is not cheap -- it costs $21.95. It is 240 pages long, and in B&W (except for the color cover). I usually don't spend this much money for any book, but I have to say that this book was a bargain that I will be reading for a long time to come!

Rob

• Jack Kirby Collector page

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Rimes on August 29, 1997 at 00:15:17 PDT

As mentioned in the post directly below, I picked up the new issue of Previews today, which covers upcoming comics, and figured I'd mention the upcoming Cap-related ones.

Captain America #1, of course, is scheduled for release on November 19th. Bob Wiacek is slated to be the inker. I had enjoyed Wiacek's inking on the X-Men back in the 1980s, so I'm hopeful he will do a good job here.

The ad for #1 says the following of Cap: "A red, white and blue beacon of hope to four generations. A guy in his mid Twenties." My understanding was that Cap only looked like a young man (back around #130, circa 1971, he was mistaken for a college-age guy), but had actually been fighting the good fight for several decades. Marvel has said in the past, I think, that specific references to particular eras in their comics are only "topical" and do not reflect the actual passage of time due to the manner in which comics are published. Still, in Cap's case, his involvement in World War Two is not something that can be ignored or dismissed -- it is a vital aspect of the character. Both FDR and Clinton have played important roles in Cap's history; to maintain credibility with readers, the length of time between their presidencies can't be retconned! So, I hope the mention of Cap being "in his mid Twenties" is a reference to his looks and not his mindset.

A "Golden Age of Marvel TPB" is scheduled for November 5th. This book will contain reprints of Golden-Age Marvel stories.

A "sneak-peek" at Avengers #1 is provided by a full-page pic of a Perez drawing of The Avengers. Looks good! Oddly enough, it looks as though no Avengers comic is scheduled for November...why the wait?

Wizard #76 will have a Cap/Red Skull cover by George Perez (the Cap part of it, at least, is shown in the new Previews), and will have a Perez interview where he discusses The Avengers and Crimson Plague (the latter being his creator-owned comic which I couldn't recall the name of on a recent post on the Avengers board).

Comic Book Marketplace #54 will have a Kirby-drawn Cap versus Daredevil cover.

And, as I mentioned in a previous post, Cap will star in WHAT IF #103, which is scheduled for release on October 15th.

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Bubba2 on August 29, 1997 at 06:52:41 PDT
in reply to batman vs. captain america! (1860), posted by razi ingber on August 27, 1997 at 02:52:02 PDT

> who do you think will win: batman or captain america?

Well, I think it would come off exactly as John Byrne illustrated it in his Elseworlds story a few months back (see my review on Aug 21 below for more details). Basically what will happen when the world's greatest detective squares off against the world's best fighting machine is that the detective will quickly discern that they are on the same team (and that he is practically outmatched in the strength department). Cap will take a little longer to figure it out, but once he does, he and Bats will team up to kick major butt! In other words, this fight is almost always a draw in my book because these two characters are too smart to fight for too long without figuring out that they are on the same side!

Happy Birthday,

Bubba2

Host = leo-percer.baylor.edu (129.62.3.126)

Posted by Patriot on August 29, 1997 at 06:53:28 PDT
in reply to Re: What about me (whining and groveling) !!??!! (1883), posted by Roscoe on August 27, 1997 at 22:16:13 PDT

> > »
> > > > Thanks to doughnut for posting this picture. I thought it'd make a nice banner for the time being. (it sure beats that Red Skull one that Plaidy gave me to put up :->)(Hi Phil!!!)
> > > > Enjoy
> > > > Sam
> > > Hey, that's a beauty, Sam! But I really like the cover to the new Cap # 1 even more!
> > > -- Swashbuckler
> > >>>Please consider my namesakes only pic from the Star Spangled images.
> > If only for a day, my moment of glory. Think about it. Warhol said every person has a moment of fame.
> > Respectfully submitted, Batroc the Leaper

> Hey, c'mon. If that mustachioed wierdo gets his picture up, I should have mine up for a bit too. I mean, I actually was Cap for 2 or 3 issues. Gimme some props.

> -Roscoe

My namesake was Cap for a lot longer.

Patriot.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)

Posted by Patriot on August 29, 1997 at 07:00:32 PDT
in reply to Re: Batman vs. Captain America! (1884), posted by Brother Voodoo on August 28, 1997 at 07:15:59 PDT

> >
> > Well you didn't ask how, you just asked who. As to how Cap would beat him, I think Cap has an edge when it comes to the arts of combat; a slight edge, perhaps, but enough to make the difference. There have been some arguments as to how Bats is more agile in that he's more at home among the rooftops. But that doesn't seem to hold much water because Cap is just about as agile when leaping from rooftop to rooftop, this without the aid of grappling hooks, I might add. He's in Daredevil's league, who can swing with Bats any day.

> > Falcon

> Also, unless it has been retconned, Captain America is considerably more powerful than Batman. His 1987 Marvel Universe profile indicates that he is able to press 750 lb (with supreme effort - if memory serves).I have historically been a big fan of Batman, and he is a big guy.

> But I remember a few years ago, (in the real world) a weightlifting contest among big athletes (a shotputter, Lou Ferrigno, some big-ass football player, etc) where the strongest of these huge guys could only press like 320 lb over their heads. Giving Batman some slack, and assuming he can press a little more - he is still only maybe half as strong as Captain America.

> So in addition to his amazingly honed battle skills (which I would agree must exceed - even slightly - Batman's very formidable skills) Cap would also have a significant advantage in strength.

> Again, unless retconned, didn't the Super Soldier treatment also give Cap enhanced stamina and an enhanced ability to elminate fatigue poisons from his body? This could also give him the edge in a drawn out battle.

> Just my thougths,

> Brother Voodoo

I'm wondering if he HAS been retconned. Most '90s stats and updates on him state " Strength being the maximum potential of a human being; able to press nearly a ton". That was stated on a card and an MU 93(?) update. I don't have it but I've seen a friends. After this update, the Marvel RPG boosted his strength just shy of the 1 ton mark.

Patriot.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)

Posted by Patriot on August 29, 1997 at 07:03:18 PDT
in reply to I can't believe I got deleted!! (Hey, Albert) (1878), posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 27, 1997 at 16:57:00 PDT

> >>>On my favorite, bestest, board......I thought I was the voice of reason in the American Nazi/Jamie tirade.
> But I was part of the thread so I understand.
> >>>The only bad thing is that Albert wanted info on how to register for "Rap with Cap".
> Albert should pass muster and get a password in my humble opinion.
> Hey Albert, refer to the Star Spangled Site and register will ya!!!
> For that is the way of honor, the way of BATROC THE LEAPER!!

I missed this unfortunate event because the day "Rap with Cap" went up, I didn't come back here at all. Maybe now that things are being handled, I'll come back now and then.

Patriot.

Host = blackhole.miti.nb.ca (198.73.125.2)

Posted by Fighting America aka Stonecold on August 29, 1997 at 18:06:19 PDT
in reply to ....I missed This?!?!! ....oh and.... (1885), posted by Ned Leeds Jr. on August 28, 1997 at 07:51:39 PDT

Jamie can banded does anyone now his e0mail adress. I am going get Waids cap I can not what. Fighting America will comeout this week how can it It is a big rip off of Cap I will still buy it.

Host = pm8-42.wcoil.com (208.10.2.48)

Posted by stonecold on August 29, 1997 at 18:21:14 PDT

Wow. I hate Nazi I but he like Rob cause eh made Cap art stink

Host = pm8-42.wcoil.com (208.10.2.48)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 29, 1997 at 19:03:40 PDT
in reply to Jamie was a nazi (1894), posted by stonecold on August 29, 1997 at 18:21:14 PDT

> Wow. I hate Nazi I but he like Rob cause eh made Cap art stink
Maybe...ROB LIEFELD WAS A NAZI!!!
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Batroc on August 29, 1997 at 21:15:52 PDT

>>>> Here is how I figure, when the Skull is in close proximity with the Cube, it still grants some of his wishes. (See TOS #89)
In this issue, he was seperated from the cube but still had the power to teleport out from a deadly situation. (Stuck in raging waters with gold armor on).
In the recent Cap line, he had to wish for his arm back and to get the heck away from Cap.
>>>> Now he may have melded or interfaced with the cube. Marvel hinted before the Crossing that they wanted to make the Skull more powerful into a Dr. Doom, heavy hitter category. I'm against this. I like the Skull as his nasty self. For that is the way of honor, the way of Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by The Red Spider on August 29, 1997 at 21:22:43 PDT
in reply to Re: Jamie was a nazi (1895), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 29, 1997 at 19:03:40 PDT

> > Wow. I hate Nazi I but he like Rob cause eh made Cap art stink
> Maybe...ROB LIEFELD WAS A NAZI!!!
> Albert

You have no evidence to back that up. Thank you for your time,

The Red Spider

Host = bak-ca1-03.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.35)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 29, 1997 at 21:24:31 PDT
in reply to Re: Jamie was a nazi (1897), posted by The Red Spider on August 29, 1997 at 21:22:43 PDT

> > > Wow. I hate Nazi I but he like Rob cause eh made Cap art stink
> > Maybe...ROB LIEFELD WAS A NAZI!!!
> > Albert
> You have no evidence to back that up. Thank you for your time,
> The Red Spider
I was just kidding.
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by The Red Spider on August 29, 1997 at 21:26:50 PDT
in reply to Re: Jamie was a nazi (1898), posted by Albert B. Ching on August 29, 1997 at 21:24:31 PDT

> > > > Wow. I hate Nazi I but he like Rob cause eh made Cap art stink
> > > Maybe...ROB LIEFELD WAS A NAZI!!!
> > > Albert
> > You have no evidence to back that up. Thank you for your time,
> > The Red Spider
> I was just kidding.
> Albert

Oh, I understand. Thank you for your time,

The Red Spider

Host = bak-ca1-03.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.35)

Posted by TJ Burns on August 29, 1997 at 22:54:29 PDT

I have finally made it back on-line!

So what's new?

TJB

Host = peopl15.mis.NET (206.28.33.115)

Posted by Rimes on August 30, 1997 at 00:41:12 PDT
in reply to I'm Baaaaaaaaaccccccckkkkkk!!!! (1900), posted by TJ Burns on August 29, 1997 at 22:54:29 PDT

> I have finally made it back on-line!

> So what's new?

>
> TJB

Welcome back, TJ!! Batroc was just mentioning you on the "Rap with Cap" board!

Rob

(Oh, by the way, I'm posting as "Rimes" now to prevent confusion with all the other Robs out there, particularly one mentioned too often on this board!)

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Roscoe on August 30, 1997 at 00:42:03 PDT
in reply to Re: What about me (whining and groveling) !!??!! (1890), posted by Patriot on August 29, 1997 at 06:53:28 PDT

>
> > > »
> > > > > Thanks to doughnut for posting this picture. I thought it'd make a nice banner for the time being. (it sure beats that Red Skull one that Plaidy gave me to put up :->)(Hi Phil!!!)
> > > > > Enjoy
> > > > > Sam
> > > > Hey, that's a beauty, Sam! But I really like the cover to the new Cap # 1 even more!
> > > > -- Swashbuckler
> > > >>>Please consider my namesakes only pic from the Star Spangled images.
> > > If only for a day, my moment of glory. Think about it. Warhol said every person has a moment of fame.
> > > Respectfully submitted, Batroc the Leaper

> > Hey, c'mon. If that mustachioed wierdo gets his picture up, I should have mine up for a bit too. I mean, I actually was Cap for 2 or 3 issues. Gimme some props.

> > -Roscoe

> My namesake was Cap for a lot longer.

> Patriot.

So what? We're talking about me here.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma1-24.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.56)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 30, 1997 at 06:54:58 PDT
in reply to Re: I'm Baaaaaaaaaccccccckkkkkk!!!! (1901), posted by Rimes on August 30, 1997 at 00:41:12 PDT

»
> > I have finally made it back on-line!
> > So what's new?
> »
> > TJB
> Welcome back, TJ!! Batroc was just mentioning you on the "Rap with Cap" board!
> Rob
> (Oh, by the way, I'm posting as "Rimes" now to prevent confusion with all the other Robs out there, particularly one mentioned too often on this board!)
>>>>>ALOT has happened!!! Some of the old guys don't hang out here as much anymore. They go to the "Rap with Cap" room off the Star Spangled Site. Go to the Star Spangled Site and register with "Diamond" Dave for a password. Not just anyone is in the club.
Rob Rimes and I still argue over who is better, Sharon or Bernie. And roughly 90% of the Cap fans are excited about Waid and Garney's return.
The old Chat room as you knew it is also no more.
>>>>>> Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Tony Stark on August 30, 1997 at 09:40:01 PDT

In Wizard 74's Heroes Return interview, their's an inset with Ron Garney on the art of Captain America. Says Ron, "Some of the villians are going to go through radical visually changes that will probally shock some people." Wizard goes on to say: Most prominetly, look for a completly revamped Batroc the Leaper without his silly moustache and costume.

I think it'll be interesting to see a new Leaper. What do the rst of you think?

Tony Stark

Host = nbre-ras2-cs-18.dial.bright.net (207.58.96.61)

Posted by Patriot on August 30, 1997 at 09:59:46 PDT
in reply to I'm Baaaaaaaaaccccccckkkkkk!!!! (1900), posted by TJ Burns on August 29, 1997 at 22:54:29 PDT

> I have finally made it back on-line!

> So what's new?

>
> TJB

Welcome back pal. You've been missed. You were posting in my threads so much and defending me to rude postersthat I thought I was gaining a sidekick. Hope to see you on the Rap with Cap board soon for the great discussions we've been having. I'm about to post one about the Marvel Vision interview with Mark Waid.

See you there soon.

Patriot.

Host = ntsvr11-15.idirect.com (207.136.99.15)

Posted by SUperboy on August 30, 1997 at 12:43:31 PDT
in reply to Re: Damn it.Awesome won the courts approval for fighting American. (1835), posted by Cheshire Cat on August 26, 1997 at 11:45:26 PDT

> > >
> > > > > Jesus.It seems so unfair.Fighting American is allowed to continue as a comic book.Despite the obvious Captain America rip off!His boot color has to be changed though.Damn liefield.
> > > > > KC
> > > > So? I like most around here, dislike Liefeld's art style, but do you really want to see him fail in his life?
> > > > Albert

> > > It's not that anyone wants him to fail (at least I don't think so). Just not succeed using ripping off someone else.

> > > Falcon

> > Yeah, it ain't right!!! Y'know this reminds me of a certain Simpsons episode where Homer finds some new drink and shares the secret with Moe and he rips it off and takes all the credit for himself and gets all the money and women and fame and Homer gets nothin'!

>
> > Cya
> > The Plaid Skull

> >
> > Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, ruthlessness...the Plaid Skull was there!!

>
> > BTW, the secret was Cough Syrup!!

> I must admit, I have been reading issues of SUPREME, but only because of the excellent writing by Alan Moore, and his ability to take characters that are even rip-offs, and give them a respectable life of their own.
> I can't wait to see him start writing Y2, the new YOUNGBLOOD series.
> But, I agree completely - - Rob Liefeld doesn't have an original bone in his body.
> I mean, what was MARVEL thinking when they gave him CAPTAIN AMERICA for six issues?!?
> I curse the day he got a hold of FIGHTING AMERICAN, as I think it was one of the most original concepts by the team of Simon and Kirby - - even moreso than CAPTAIN AMERICA, despite being a rip-off of the shield-slinger.
> Also, I don't recall Fighting American using a shield originally, wo why would Liefeld, knowing that everyone perceives him as a complete rip-off artist, want to give the guy an update with a shield, which makes him an even huger rip-off of Cap than he already was?
> Oh, I long for the days of Simon and Kirby...
> They were the only ones who could do Fighting American right.
> I know Jeph Loeb is a capable writer, but working in Liefeld's shadow has made him quite bad...
> And how in the world did Liefeld ever get great writers like Loeb and Moore and Jo Duffy working for him???
> *SIGH*
> Sorry about the long post.

> CC

He can't throw his shield, he has to have grey and brown on him, etc. Nobody beats Cap!!!

L8r,
Superboy

Host = ILNC-F8A3.interlinc.ltec.net (206.158.248.163)

Posted by Muley on August 30, 1997 at 15:48:53 PDT
in reply to Brand Spanking New Batroc The Leaper (1904), posted by Tony Stark on August 30, 1997 at 09:40:01 PDT

> In Wizard 74's Heroes Return interview, their's an inset with Ron Garney on the art of Captain America. Says Ron, "Some of the villians are going to go through radical visually changes that will probally shock some people." Wizard goes on to say: Most prominetly, look for a completly revamped Batroc the Leaper without his silly moustache and costume.

> I think it'll be interesting to see a new Leaper. What do the rst of you think?

I kinda like the old dopey looking Batroc.

Host = ww-tg02.proxy.aol.com (152.163.194.6)

Posted by Patriot on August 30, 1997 at 16:20:07 PDT
in reply to Re:Awesome won? All in the eye of the beholder. (1906), posted by SUperboy on August 30, 1997 at 12:43:31 PDT

> He can't throw his shield, he has to have grey and brown on him, etc. Nobody beats Cap!!!

> L8r,
> Superboy

Specifically, FA has to have brown boots and gloves while sporting a utility belt. His shield cannot have the circle and star motif. Instead, he has to change it to grey with a blue eagle. Superboy is right. He can't throw it but he will have offensive weaponry shoot out of it.
In response to an earlier post. I don't want Liefeld to fail at everything. However, the comic industry is just a job like any other. Doing good work should be rewarded and putting out below industry stantard writing and art should be grounds for dismissal; just like he was from HR. Unfortunately, he has enough capital to keep flooding the industry with this same below standard work.
I don't want to see him fail at everything. I want him to shape up and put out quality stuff or I want him to fail at the comic industry to keep the standards high. Maybe Hallmark wants him for their greeting cards.

Patriot.

Host = x2-1-3.idirect.com (207.136.67.195)

Posted by TJ Burns on August 30, 1997 at 18:19:52 PDT
in reply to Re: I'm Baaaaaaaaaccccccckkkkkk!!!! (1903), posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 30, 1997 at 06:54:58 PDT

> »
> > > I have finally made it back on-line!
> > > So what's new?
> > »
> > > TJB
> > Welcome back, TJ!! Batroc was just mentioning you on the "Rap with Cap" board!
> > Rob
> > (Oh, by the way, I'm posting as "Rimes" now to prevent confusion with all the other Robs out there, particularly one mentioned too often on this board!)
> >>>>>ALOT has happened!!! Some of the old guys don't hang out here as much anymore. They go to the "Rap with Cap" room off the Star Spangled Site. Go to the Star Spangled Site and register with "Diamond" Dave for a password. Not just anyone is in the club.
> Rob Rimes and I still argue over who is better, Sharon or Bernie. And roughly 90% of the Cap fans are excited about Waid and Garney's return.
> The old Chat room as you knew it is also no more.
> >>>>>> Batroc the Leaper

Too bad about the chat room. I registered for the new one, but it will be about a year for me to figure it out. I'll register with dave immediately. It's great to be back!!!!

TJB

Host = peopl3.mis.NET (206.28.33.103)

Posted by TJ Burns on August 30, 1997 at 18:22:09 PDT
in reply to Re: I'm Baaaaaaaaaccccccckkkkkk!!!! (1905), posted by Patriot on August 30, 1997 at 09:59:46 PDT

>
> > I have finally made it back on-line!

> > So what's new?

> >
> > TJB

> Welcome back pal. You've been missed. You were posting in my threads so much and defending me to rude postersthat I thought I was gaining a sidekick. Hope to see you on the Rap with Cap board soon for the great discussions we've been having. I'm about to post one about the Marvel Vision interview with Mark Waid.

> See you there soon.

> Patriot.

Count on it, my friend. I'm back, and glad of it.

TJB

Host = peopl3.mis.NET (206.28.33.103)

Posted by WAR on August 31, 1997 at 20:32:58 PDT

Am I like,the only person that likes the HR cap better than the regular cap????

A Wondering War

p.s.I like the eagle on his forehead better than the "A"

Host = 206.136.154.15 (206.136.154.15)

Posted by gordon on August 31, 1997 at 20:48:20 PDT
in reply to am I alone on this???? (1911), posted by WAR on August 31, 1997 at 20:32:58 PDT

> Am I like,the only person that likes the HR cap better than the regular cap????

> A Wondering War

> p.s.I like the eagle on his forehead better than the "A"

Yes and no. I like the muscles on the new draw of Cap. But, you don't muck with a legend.

gordon

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