Brooklyn-born bassist Adam Yauch is now in his fourteenth year as a member of the band the Beastie Boys. The bands music a combination of hip hop, hardcore punk, and funk--is provocative and unapologetic, and its concerts have sometimes turned into riots. Since 1980, the group has sold over seven million records in the United States alone. Its last four albums, including the recently released Ill Communication (Grand Royal/Capitol), have all gone platinum. Last summer, the Beastie Boys sponsored the Namgyal monks of Tibet to join them on Lollapalooza, a contemporary music tour with politically conscious concerns. The Namgyal monks performed purification rituals and sacred dances before the beginning of each days performances by bands such as Green Day, the Pharcyde, and Boom Poetics. The Beastie Boysalso sponsored a booth at Lollapalooza to educate fans about the plight of the Tibetan people, and proceeds from two of their songs are being donated tothe Milarepa Fund, a not-for-profit foundation the band established earlier this year to promote universal compassion through music. This interview was conducted on August 5, Yauch's thirtieth birthday, by Carole Tonkinson, Senior Editor of Tricycle Books. Photographs by Sally Boon.
"I know we can fix it and it's not too late I give respect to King and his nonviolent ways, I dream and I hope and I won't forget Some day I'm visit on a Free Tibet."
lyrics from "The Update"
Tricycle: When did you become interested in Buddhism?
Yauch: Just recently. I had been reading about a lot of different religions and spiritual paths and Native Americans for a while. When I was in Nepal and Kathmandu for the second time, a little more than a yearand a half ago, I was exposed to Buddhism more. And when I cameback to America I started readingbooks by the Dalai Lama.
Tricycle: What attracts you to Buddhism?
Yauch: The feeling I get from the rinpoches and His Holiness [the Dalai Lama] and Tibetan people in general. The people that I've met are really centered in the heart; they're coming from a real clear, compassionate place. And most of the teachings that I've read about almost seem set up to distract the other side of your brain in order to give your heart center a chance to openup. In terms of what I understand, Buddhism is like a manual to achieve enlightenment--there are these five things and these six things within the first thing, and all these little subdivisions. And, despite all of thatright-brain information it is very heart-centered. At least that's thefeeling I get from the Tibetans. Also the teachings of Tibetan Buddhism have been passed down for a long time now. They have that system pretty wellfigured out.
Tricycle: In a recent issue of Vibe you were quoted as saying you weren't a Buddhist.
Yauch: I haven't gotten anyone to give me a real solid definition of what a Buddhist is, so I kind of go back and forth. Sometimes I'll say I'm aBuddhist in interviews, and sometimes I'll say I'm not. I study life andpeople and I think the Buddhist path is a really strong one, really intelligent.
Tricycle: The words that you used in "Bodhisattva Vow" [from the album IllCommunication] adhere to a traditional rendition of the Vow. Have you takenthat Vow?
Yauch: Yes. But I would like to clarify something. A lot of people have the misconception that taking the Bodhisattva Vow delays enlightenment until all other sentient beings attain enlightenment, and that is not really it. The Bodhisattva Vow means striving for enlightenment to better help allother sentient beings attain enlightenment. That's an important issue--the objective of that Vow. Being enlightened is the best way to benefit all other beings--from that point you are able to help more.
Tricycle: Who helped you clarify that?
Yauch: The Dalai Lama--because I was hesitant about taking the Vow. He said something that clarified that point and I said, "Ah, all right, cool."
Tricycle: This was during the teachings that His Holiness gave in Arizona last fall [1993]?
Yauch: Yes.
Tricycle: Did you have an audience with him?
Yauch: No. That was incorrectly reported in the press. I happened to catchhim when he was walking out of a room. It was wild. He grabbed both of myhands and looked at me for a second and I felt all this energy. I justwalked to my room and it clicked in my head. I thought, I need to write asong about this.
Tricycle: A lot of Westerners became interested in Buddhism through drugs. Was that part of it for you?
Yauch: I would not say drugs opened me up specifically to Buddhism. Butwhen I first got interested in spirituality in '88 I was smoking a lot ofherb and taking a lot of hallucinogens, and that starts to open you up. Itremoves your whole doubt system and opens up your chakras [centers of subtleor refined energy], and it becomes easy to start taking in a lot ofinformation. Using drugs is a fairly uncontrolled way of approaching thatstuff. Drugs are not something you can go too far with, but you start seeingthings that don't fit into Western teachings and then you have to take itfrom there. Everyone has a different path. I'm not saying anybody should orshouldn't do any thing, but I realized that drugs weren't going to go veryfar for me.
Tricycle: Do you think there's any connection between a lot of kids taking LSD now and the growing interest in Buddhism among younger people?
Yauch: I don't necessarily see it in terms of Buddhism specifically. I justsee that when people take a lot of hallucinogens and drugs it just starts toopen them up a bit, and that's definitely been going on lately.
Tricycle: Are you still taking drugs?
Yauch: No. I don't even drink or smoke or anything.
Tricycle: Is that an intentional decision?
Yauch: It started out as something that worked for me, and I've gotten moreregimented about it recently because it's nice to have a policy. I'll go to aparty and see some friends and they'll be like, "Come on, have a beer." It'sjust easier to have a set decision that I don't drink than trying to decideif I'll have one beer, or maybe I'll have two beers and wake up in themorning with a headache. I stopped smoking herb three or four years ago. Theone thing about doing hallucinogens is that they open up your solar plexuschakra and allow you to take in the energy of every body else around you,whether you want to or not. Hallucinogens blow that chakra wide open and youcan start taking on a lot of negative energy--worries, jealousy, anger, orwhatever other contractive emotions are flying around. I just can't even messwith that now. I feel a little more in control by keeping my energy separate.
Tricycle: What's your daily practice?
Yauch: It varies. My daily practice incorporates all kinds of things thatI've learned. I meditate in the morning and before I go to sleep. These areusually the main times, because before I go to sleep I can get focused onwhat happened during the day, pull that into perspective, and that'll make mysleep a little more peaceful. Then I set up what's going on the next day orget centered for those activities in the morning. A lot of times on tour Idon't get a chance to because it's so crazy running around.
Tricycle: I was wondering about your attitudes toward women, which seem tohave changed so much-the Iyrics in "Sure Shot," for example. What accountsfor such a radical change?
Yauch: It's just seeing things from a different perspective. There was a timewhen we would joke around and say things that were disrespectful of women andthink that it was funny, or that it wouldn't hurt any body, or that it wouldbe taken with a grain of salt. Then it became clear that that wasn't thecase, and we had to go through the process of taking a step back andrealizing how those things affect other people. The Iyric in "Sure Shot" isjust a statement of that. Even on the last album there aren't any Iyrics thatare disrespectful of women, but we went an extra step on this album to make astatement. Mainly where it's coming from is that I listen to a lot ofhip-hop, and there is so much disrespect for women that it's becomestandardized, normal. It's like a blemish in a good song. You hear a goodrecord all of a sudden there'll be some obnoxious Iyrics in there.
Tricycle: How did you decide to use "Internal Excellence" as the last twoletters in "Beastie"?
Yauch: I don't know. It was just a goof at the time when we were forming theband. We were just trying to think of the stupidest things we possibly couldand it seemed funny. In retrospect it surprises me that it's come to makesense. I like that.
Tricycle: What's it like having the monks on tour with you?
Yauch: It's amazing. They're really incredible, warm individuals, out therehaving fun, playing basketball with us and stuff.
Tricycle: Was it your idea to take them on the tour?
Yauch: I was lobbying for it. On tour, they are being sponsored by Artistsfor Tibet. We also started our own organization, called Milarepa, which isrun by Erin Potts, a Tibetan studies major, who is one of the people I met inKathmandu. She's on the Lollapalooza tour with us, doing a booth withinformation about Tibet. The proceeds of two of our songs go to the Fund.
Tricycle: In past interviews, you expressed some qualms about appropriatingblack music. Do you have qualms about taking Tibetan monks out of theirculture and putting them on a concert tour?
Yauch: The only worries that come to mind are that kids won't really bepolite to the monks. Also, that some people who have specific concepts abouthow Tibet should be presented and how monks should be treated are going to bereally upset. But in weighing that stuff out the worries are allinsignificant. Worries by their nature are misconceptions. there. If thereare a few kids who disrespect them, that's no comparison to the amount ofgood it's doing. Even if it just sparks something in somebody a little bit,even if they don't look into it while they're there, maybe next time they seea documentary on Tibet they'll say, "Yeah, that's the thing I saw atLollapalooza."
Tricycle: Has being on tour with you affected the monks?
Yauch: For me, the significant thing to keep in mind is that the monks arehere learning just like the rest of us. They have chosen a real strong pathof abstaining from a bunch of things so that they can remain focused on theirspirituality, but they're work ing on things just like the rest of us.They're working toward enlightenment and clearing out misconceptions, andit's no accident that they have come out on this tour and they are beingexposed to whatever they're being exposed to as part of their path, and,yeah, it's probably confusing to them here and there, and it's probablyinsane. They're definitely getting exposed to some crazy stuff, but they'regetting some deep learning from it. I strongly believe ininterconnectedness, and it's no accident that these guys are out here.
Tricycle: What's the craziest thing they've been exposed to on the tour?
Yauch: You'd have to ask them. For the most part the fans have been reallycool and fascinated by the monks, blown away. They just emanate so much loveand compassion that everyone on the tour and the other bands are drawn tothem. But once when we played in Philly the kids were so excited about theshow that they all started slam dancing and throwing stuff at the stage,trying to knock the monks' hats off. I don't know whether that stupidity waspartly hostile or not. I didn't actually see it: I heard about it afterwards.I felt really bad and went to talk to the monks, but they were just giggling.But that definitely sent a chill down my spine when I heard that. I thought,Oh no. I couldn't believe it. But for the most part it's just amazing. Also,in terms of running a booth, we have supporters of Tibet come up to help us,and sometimes they say, "What the hell are you doing? These are the DalaiLama's personal monks and you've got them out here in front of these drunkenfools." They've just got to chill out. There's a lot of Western elitism inBuddhism, like Buddhism is their thing, so there's hesitation about doing anything that opens up young people to Buddhism. The way I look at it, onemillion Tibetans have been killed by the Chinese and one million kids willcome on this tour. If we can touch those kids, it'll be worth the effort. Alot of the people who are helping to support Tibet right now are an oldergroup of people, and there's almost like a fear that the teachings are goingto be misconstrued, or that it's going to be brought in the wrong direction,but it winds up being elitism. It winds up keeping it away from young people,which is really dangerous.
Tricycle: How is it "dangerous"?
Yauch: Some people may be scared that the monks are going to be mistreated ontour or that they need to be treated in a very special way, as if they werein a theater with an audience that is paying them a huge amount of respectand understands what they're doing. But an attitude like that is never goingto wind up freeing Tibet. It's never going to really spread the dharma.
Tricycle: Is it that the older generation is kind of set in its ways?
Yauch: I think so but generalizations scare me. It's just some specificindividuals, and their resistance is basically fear. All that stuff comesdown to fear, to that insecurity of thinking: Is this going to take somethingaway from me? Am I still going to be able to function the way I'm functioningif this other thing happens? The bottom line of all the problems on thisplanet and that all human beings are working on is this basic misconceptionof not-enoughness, feeling like we're not enough. This is some strain ofthat, of feeling that if the dharma is presented in this way, or if theseother people become interested in this or get excited about it, it's going totake something away from me. It's this basic misconception, this feeling ofnot-enoughness.
Tricycle: Do you see any difference for your own generation?
Yauch: One of the monks said some thing that's relevant here. He noticed thishuge separation in America between the kids and the adults that doesn't existwhere he comes from, and that there's a real polarization between adults andyouth. Where they come from, when there's a celebration-or a dance, or aparty, or music-the little kids and the grandpas are all dancing and singingtogether. That's something this country could definitely grasp hold of. Ourpolarization of that is more extreme than it needs to be.
Tricycle: Are you hopeful about your generation?
Yauch: I'm pretty hopeful about the evolution of humanity in general. I think that all of us here on the planet at this point have come into theselifetimes and into these bodies because it's a crucial time in the evolutionof the planet and humanity. It's a transitional phase, and I think thateveryone has come in at this time to be a part of that, to be part of the BigShow.