Patty's reply to me deserves a much more thorough answer than I can give in the Breederweb forum, so here it is.
First of all, I am not a breeder. I don't dislike cockapoos- I grew up with one. I do have an extremely strong conviction that no dog should ever be bred without a very good reason, and that the deliberate creation of mixed-breed dogs --when millions are being killed in shelters every year-- is an abomination. Every dog --especially those that are "just pets"-- deserves to be healthy! There is simply no excuse- none- for breeding untested dogs, let alone creating mixed-breeds.
Here is my original message:
To Patty the cockapoo producer
Posted By: Cris Waller - 1/16/00 11:12:27 PM
I am curious about a few things. I checked out your website. I did not see any mention of health testing on your parent dogs. Do you CERF them? Do you SA test your poodle studs? How do you determine whether a particular cocker or poodle is worth breeding? I am pretty certain you don't do any conformation showing, but do you do obedience trials, fieldwork, agility, flyball- anything!- with your dogs (besides breeding them!). Why do you advertise proudly the fact that you are state licensed? In most cases, only people who produce an ungodly number of puppies- like puppy mills- need state licensing. In a world where hundreds of cute little mixed-breeds get killed in shelters everyday, why exactly (besides the ca$h) do you feel the need to produce more? And no, I don't hate "non-AKC breeds, nor am I a breeder. But I do care deeply about dogs.
And here is Patty's response (comments by me in bold ):
re: To Patty the cockapoo producer
Posted By: Patty - 1/17/00 10:42:04 PM
Cris- slander is a very nasty thing. I bet my lawyer would like
your email addy.
What did I say that was slanderous? I only asked some questions, and I get a vitriolic response...
For your info(and for everyone curious enough to read your nasty little blurb) I have NEVER sold a puppy with a congenital defect (however I have gone to the expense of surgery and handfeeding to save a cleft palate pup(because he wanted to live) who was adopted, have never had any eye problems (NONE), (however I spent $800 for surgery to repair a toy dogs fractured leg and cared for him for four months then GAVE him away as a pet) never seen epilepsy (however I have neutered older pups at six months before sending them to new owners and by the by ALL of our pet puppies are sold spay and neuter contracts!!!), and have not had any thyroid problems,skin problems, etc.etc.etc.
Note that she tries to garner sympathy by mentioning dogs that she has cared for-- but she doesn't answer any of the original questions about health testing. There is *no* reason not to test- even the Cockapoo Club of America recommends eye and hip tests, at least, for breeding stock. Of course, if you aren't looking for problems you won't find them.
Both American Cocker Spaniels and Poodles are prone to several genetic problems. These include (sources at http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dogs-faq/mixed-breeds/cockapoos/ , http://www.genesearch.net/virtualclinic.htm and http://216.34.232.28/canine/genetic/bboard/messages/1120.html :
I am licenced with the state because to breed a dog legally you have to be (even if you own one male and one female)!!!!!
Really? A cite for said law would be useful. The web page indicates thatPatty is in Vermont. and a full-text search of the state statutes at http://www.leg.state.vt.us/ shows no such law in existence.
(I AM NOT USDA) My AKC dogs are bred to AKC standards and I do not show, I spend quality time with my dogs instead, lots of it.
How does she know that her dogs are "bred to AKC standards" if they have never been evaluated under the standards?
Competition events-- not just conformation showing, but agility, tracking, obedience, etc.-- are used by reputable breeders to determine that dogs are indeed mentally and physically sound. Owners who compete with their dogs in such events spend true quality time with their dogs, forging a bond that cannot be imagined by those who have not done it.
I have a contract where all puppies have an open door back into my HOME, if their owners become sick, have a lifestyle change, etc (NO shelters for my dogs). ALL PUPPIES are HEALTH WARRANTEED!
The warranty is not posted on the website. It would be interesting to see it. Reputable breeders guarantee pups against genetic defects for life.
I have many people on waiting lists because I only breed my gals once a year and only if I choose to, and carefully hand raise every puppy in a spotlessly clean environment, grooming and socializing properly.
She must have quite a few dogs then! She posted about a pup for sale, and her web page states that she is planning spring and summer litters. Most reputable breeders breed no more than 2 litters yearly.
Our health and temperaments are wonderful (no inbreeding is done in our kennel).By the way I also go to the expense of using Advantage on all my dogs(and yes they all have their shots and are vetted at least once a year.) and we dont even have a flea here! And ALL my dogs are groomed each month!!! So get a life and get your facts before you harrass people.
I would love to have the facts--but Ms. Shortsleeve seems reluctant to provide them...
Hey, by the way, do you have kids......was wondering if you had any genetic testing done before producing those children. just curious.
Note this classic non sequitur, which many backyard breeders on the newsgroup rec.pets.dogs.breeds have used to try and dodge their responsibility for health testing!
Here is my original posting again, with notes as to whether or not the questions I asked Patty were answered:
I am curious about a few things. I checked out your website.
I did not see any mention of health testing on your parent dogs.
No health testing is mentioned in the response, either.
Do you CERF them?
Not answered.
Do you SA test your poodle studs?
Not answered.
How do you determine whether a particular cocker or poodle
is worth breeding?
Not answered.
I am pretty certain you don't do any conformation showing, but
do you do obedience trials, fieldwork, agility, flyball- anything!-
with your dogs (besides breeding them!).
She does not.
Why do you advertise proudly the fact that you are state licensed?
In most cases, only people who produce an ungodly number of puppies-
like puppy mills- need state licensing.
The answer given, by all information available to me, is
false.
In a world where hundreds of cute little mixed-breeds get killed
in shelters everyday, why exactly (besides the ca$h) do you feel
the need to produce more?
Not answered.
And no, I dont hate "non-AKC breeds, nor am I a breeder.
But I do care deeply about dogs.
As can be seen by reading this document, Ms. Shortsleeve has done little to answer the questions I posted. Let's see some honest answers rather than evasion, misinformation, and falsehoods.