dont call me an ALP purist - i dont like them, alp (with out the ink), nor the WLA (Western Libertarian Alliance) where all the old ALP click members are in a self imposed exile. and from what i understand they dont like me either. Ernie Hancock tells me David Dorn has been spreading around lies about me which i have not been ever told but are something to the effect that say i am a government snitch which is a lie. and i suspect ernie hancock has been spreading around the same lies about me but i cant prove it. i always though people like eric anderson and other hated me because i was an atheist. it wasnt until ernie told me that i found out they hated me because people were spreading lies that i was a government snitch. first i am probably a little bit more extreme then all the old alp people. i am an anarchist and think we should get rid of government. anybody that reads the libertarian platform with a brain should come to the same conclusing. if taxes are stealing, which i argee with then its impossible to have any goverment - hence the libertarian platform indirectly comes out and supports anarchism, although it never actually says we should get rid of government. last it seems like the old alp people are a bunch of stuck up creeps not worth associating with. From: "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> Date: Tue Sep 7, 2004 7:05 pm Subject: Re: DUI laws - they are only for the revenue $$$$$$$$ David, I don't disagree with anything you said here. Quite frankly, I was expecting more "purists" to take a position similar to Mike's. I think another way of stating what you said is that you can't violate the NIFP (for the 99% who are innocent) when you try to defend yourself from the 1% who are violating the NIFP. I think there is still a problem with our position... if we define a reckless behavior which has a X% chance of harming someone as a crime, even when we can't point to victim (YET), then who gets to decide the threshold? Should the maximum allowed X be 90% or .1%? Within your example, how should the BAC threshold be set- who gets to set it and what formula should they use? Daniel --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "maywood2008" <gonzolawyer@c...> wrote: > Daniel, > > I agree with you in principle. But some explanation is necessary. > > Mike Ross typically will deny that an initiation of force has > occurred if another person is not actually harmed. I.e., I've > noticed he does not acknowledge that someone behaving recklessly is > committing an assault on everyone who comes into contact with such a > person. Because you cannot define any one person who has been > victimized by a drunk driver who has not hit anyone YET, Mike would > suggest that there is no victim. > > However, Mike is right to suggest that the law is seriously flawed. > > Every state in the country (correct me if I'm wrong on "every") uses > a threshold of 0.08% BAC to determine whether someone is driving > drunk. Congress mandated this by denying federal highway funds to > any state which did not comply. So in Arizona, you can be arrested > for .08 for DUI, and .15 is extreme DUI. > > Under Arizona law (ARS 28-1381 et seq), having BAC at .08 means that > you SHALL be presumed to be driving under the influence. This is > ridiculous. Most experienced social drinkers of average weight (such > as myself) hit BAC .08 around 2 drinks, yet I have never been even > remotely intoxicated after only 2 drinks. Plus, the breathalyzers > are notoriously inaccurate and regularly overreport the BAC (this is > why cops would rather extract blood samples if possible), so you end > up getting charged and having to hire Marc Victor to go to court for > you and knock it down to reckless driving. The result is you're out > a couple grand to the lawyer, a couple grand in court costs etc., > and you lose your driver's license for a certain period of time. > This is patently unfair for a person who had two drinks and wasn't > even remotely intoxicated. > > Yeah sure, the cops make you do the stupid human tricks before > arresting you, but those are so incredibly subjective that a "law > enforcement officer" (as opposed to a peace officer) can write down > that you failed even though you passed with flying colors. > > If the DUI laws were reasonable and police officers enforced them > reasonably, then I wouldn't have a problem and I certainly would not > call DUI a victimless crime. But the way the laws are written & > enforced right now, many who are charged with DUI are, in fact, > truly innocent of any crime. > > David Euchner > > > > --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> wrote: > > Mike, > > So what about other similar actions? > > Should you be able to shoot a gun into the air in a city or > perhaps > > shoot 1 in from someone's head without anyone having the right to > > stop you (as long as you get lucky and don't hurt anyone)? What > > about the right to self-defense? Doesn't the person who the drunk > > driver might slam into or the person who the bullet might land > > upon have the right to defend himself against these types of > > actions? Doesn't he have the right to ask others (e.g, the state) > > for help in his self-defense? If not, why not? > > > > Daniel > > > > > > --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, mike ross <getlibdis@b...> > wrote: > > > my view is it should not be a crime to drive drunk. > > > > > > my view is if you drive drunk and hurt someone you > > > should be liable for the damages caused. and it > > > should not be a crime. > > > > > > my view is that we paid for the public roads and > > > should be able to use them if we are drunk or > > > stoned. > > > > > > but thats my political view. i think driving > > > while your drunk or stoned is a very stupid > > > thing to do. and if you do it your just and > > > accident waiting to happen. > > > > > > of course the best thing to do would be to > > > get rid of all the government roads and > > > privatize them all and let the owners of > > > private property decide on if drunks > > > should be allowed to use their roads. > > > of course that aint going to happen soon. > > > > > > mike > > > > > > Government is the great fiction, through > > > which everybody endeavors to live at the > > > expense of everybody else. > > > > > > Frederic Bastiat, French Economist > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> wrote: > > > > > > What are some possible LBT positions on drunk driving? We know > it > > > implies a high probability that someone will get hurt, but the > > actual > > > act of driving drunk doesn't directly harm anyone. To be > consistent > > > with NIFP, would the 'state' have to wait until after the > accident > > to > > > punish the drunk driver? > > > > > > It also seems in a truly free market, the owner of the road > might > > not > > > permit you onto his road if you are drunk. Your insurance > company > > > would probably drop your policy if you failed their sobriety > tests. > > > > > > Are there other ways to think about this? Is there any way the > > NIFP > > > can be used to argue that the state should step in and protect > the > > > life and property of the other people on the road (from the > drunk > > > driver)? > > > > > > I guess I could ask this question about an analogous action; say > > > shooting your gun into the air in a city - as long as the bullet > > > doesn't happen to land on someone or someone's property who > might > > get > > > harmed or mad, then should you be free to shoot? > > > > > > Thoughts anyone? > > > > > > Daniel > > > > > > "--- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, mike ross <getlibdis@b...> > > > wrote: > > > > the new times dui article follows my comments. > > > > > > > > DUI busts are about revenue, not saving > > > > lives or making the streets save. > > > > > > > > in the 60's legal limit was .15, then > > > > it went to .10 and now its .08 in all > > > > 50 states. > > > > > > > > i think when it went from .10 to .08 > > > > it was because the feds told the states > > > > that if they lowered the limit they > > > > would get more federal $$$$. i dont > > > > know the story of why they went nationwide > > > > from .15 to .10. maybe one of you has > > > > that story. but i suspect it was about > > > > $$$$. > > > > > > > > with the low limit of .08 i think the cops > > > > and city government know that drunk > > > > drivers are easy pickings to raise revenue > > > > and they just follow the smell of money. > > > > > > > > the advice i use is always refuse to talk to > > > > the cops and take the 5th. the new times seems > > > > to disagree with that. and i disagree with them. > > > > > > > > the tests seem to be very hard to pass even for > > > > sober people to take. so if a sober person can > > > > fail them you should not even think about taking > > > > a test which can give the cop probable cause > > > > to arrest you with. some of percents follow. > > > > > > > > > > > > they learn in training that there's a 65 percent > > > > probability that a driver who turns wide is drunk > > > > > > > > which means over a third of the people stopped > > > > are NOT drunk > > > > > > > > The tests are easy to flub, particularly if you're > > > > nervous or naturally uncoordinated. Sober people > > > > often don't perform well. > > > > > > > > gee sober people cant pass them. which must > > > > mean drunks cant pass them either. so if you > > > > drunk why take the test and give the cop > > > > probable cause to bust you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Horizontal gaze nystagmus, or HGN - 83 percent accuracy > rate, > > > > > > > > one fifth of people who fail the test are NOT drunk. > > > > > > > > The one-leg stand - 65 percent accurate in identifying > drunks. > > > > > > > > almost half the people who fail are not drunk > > > > > > > > The walk-and-turn - 68 percent accurate > > > > > > > > one third of the people who fail are not drunk > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/current/feature.html > > > > > > > > How to drink and drive and get away with it > > > > - and just in time for Labor Day weekend > > > > BY BRUCE RUSHTON > > > > feedback@n... > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Newton > > > > > > > > Looking like this might get you out of a field sobriety test. > > > > > > > > Cherry lollipop? Check. > > > > Eye patch? Check. > > > > > > > > Bandage on knee? Check. > > > > > > > > Loaf of bread open on the passenger seat, next to a half- empty > > > > bottle of Scope? Check. > > > > > > > > Bag of groceries with disposable diapers on top? Check. > > > > > > > > Driver's license, registration and proof of insurance within > easy > > > > reach? Check. > > > > > > > > Cell phone turned off and put away? Check. > > > > > > > > Taillights, brake lights and turn signals working properly? > > Check. > > > > > > > > You're now ready to head for the bar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > You won't be taking a taxi home tonight. A cab ride might cost > > only > > > > $25, but you'd have to pay again tomorrow morning to retrieve > > your > > > > car. That money is better spent on booze. > > > > > > > > Sure, this is a gamble, but you're playing the odds. And with > so > > > > many ill-prepared drunks on the roads, the odds are in your > > favor. > > > > > > > > If this was Vegas, you'd empty your bank account to make this > > bet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > No one likes drunk drivers. They kill. They maim. They destroy > > > > lives. > > > > > > > > But what is drunk? During the Nixon administration, the legal > > limit > > > > in most states was .15. Then it became .10. In July, Delaware > > > became > > > > the 50th state to pass a .08 limit, which Arizona adopted six > > years > > > > ago. > > > > > > > > "This .08 thing is a load of crap and it pisses me off," says > > > > Theodore Agnick, a Tempe defense attorney who specializes in > DUI > > > > cases. "We don't want -- and I'm sure you don't want -- > somebody > > > > who's hammered who's going to run into a wall out there. But > > > > these .08s? That's a regular person. Instead of patrolling at > > night > > > > looking for people who pose a risk to you and me, they're in > > front > > > > of a bar pulling people over right and left to generate > numbers. > > It > > > > has nothing to do with making it safe." > > > > Research backs Agnick. You may not be as good a driver at .08 > as > > > you > > > > are sober, but three academic studies have shown you're less > > > > dangerous than someone who talks on a cell phone while > driving. > > > > There's scant evidence that .08 has lowered the highway death > > toll, > > > > which has remained essentially flat during the past decade. > The > > > > General Accounting Office said so in a study refuting claims > by > > the > > > > National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. Even > > Candace > > > > Lightner, MADD founder who left the group in the 1980s, has > told > > > the > > > > media that the focus should be on .15 or higher. > > > > > > > > In Arizona, you'll pay a higher fine for drunken driving than > you > > > > will for running over someone on a bicycle, even if the > cyclist > > > > dies. But the zealots aren't going away. Neither are local > cops, > > > who > > > > earn as much as $120,000 a year busting drunks, then racking > up > > > > overtime in court and license revocation hearings. Just in > time > > for > > > > the extension of bar hours to 2 a.m., the Phoenix Police > > Department > > > > has changed shifts for DUI officers, who arrested 3,425 > drivers > > > > during the past year while working four days a week. Now, > they're > > > on > > > > the road five days a week. > > > > > > > > It's easy to get pulled over. Police acknowledge that obeying > > every > > > > traffic law is virtually impossible. "Have you seen the state > > > > traffic code? It's that thick," says Detective Rob Krautheim, > > > > Chandler police spokesman. "I could probably get pulled over > > > without > > > > knowing I did anything wrong." > > > > > > > > So a drunk must learn to be careful out there. Hopping in your > > car, > > > > driving well and hoping for the best won't work. Educate > > yourself, > > > > realize what lies in store if you're pulled over, and be > > prepared. > > > > > > > > And cheers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > You've chosen your watering hole carefully. It's just a few > > blocks > > > > from a series of subdivisions that, navigated properly, will > get > > > you > > > > most of the way home without venturing onto main drags that > will > > > > soon be crawling with drunks and cops looking to pull them > over. > > > > You've scouted the route, so you know which roads end up as > cul- > > de- > > > > sacs and which take you toward your destination. At no point > will > > > > you be driving more than two blocks on a main thoroughfare. > > > > > > > > Sober and safe, you take the main roads to the bar. No > guarantees > > > > where the cops will be at closing time, but it's a good idea > to > > > take > > > > note of where they are before your first cocktail. > > > > > > > > The bar parking lot is half-full when you arrive, but you > > continue > > > > on to a nearby supermarket that's even closer to the side > > streets. > > > > You've heard too many hard-luck tales from drunks busted by > cops > > > who > > > > just happened to be outside the bar at closing time. Besides, > the > > > > walk back to your car will do you good. > > > > > > > > You note the time as you order your first drink. And it is a > > drink, > > > > not a beer or a glass of wine. Fermented beverages produce the > > > > strongest odor of alcohol. Briefly, you consider the merits of > > > Crown > > > > Royal or Bombay, but you are disciplined. > > > > > > > > You're sticking with Absolut. It's the flavorings in booze > that > > > make > > > > you smell like a distillery. Vodka, especially premium brands, > > > > provides the highest safety margin. > > > > > > > > You know from studying blood-alcohol charts that a person your > > size > > > > should be able to have three drinks in the first hour without > > going > > > > over the legal limit. You also know the body burns off alcohol > > much > > > > slower than it absorbs it -- approximately one drink per hour > > will > > > > disappear from your system. You do the math in your head as > you > > > take > > > > your first sip. You plan on being here for three hours. The > > charts > > > > say you can have nine and still be comfortably below the .15 > > > > threshold that spells a mandatory 10 days in jail; there's > always > > a > > > > chance you could lose this bet, so you should hedge a bit. You > > know > > > > the charts are only a rough guide. Your maximum tonight is > eight. > > > > You ask the bartender to set you up a tab -- better to have > two > > > > people counting than one. > > > > > > > > You watch the baseball game, shoot pool with friends, flirt > with > > > the > > > > barmaid. Just before the kitchen closes, you order a basket of > > > fries > > > > to help sop up your final drinks and slow their journey into > your > > > > bloodstream. You also start drinking water. You don't want to > > risk > > > > the head-swimming effects of dehydration on top of an alcohol > > buzz. > > > > Every time you go to the rest room, you stand on one leg in > the > > > > stall after relieving yourself, gauging your ability to keep > your > > > > balance. > > > > > > > > Over at the dartboard is a group of shit-faced drunks. They're > > > loud, > > > > singing along with the jukebox, spilling drinks and stumbling > as > > > > they walk from their table to the board. You don't know them, > but > > > > they are your best friends as closing time approaches. You > will > > > make > > > > your escape just after they leave. If a cop is lurking > outside, > > > they > > > > can be the ones who get arrested, not you. > > > > > > > > Finally, it is time to go. > > > > > > > > Instead of walking directly to your car, you go behind a > > building -- > > > > > > > not the bar, which cops may be watching -- and practice field > > > > sobriety tests where no one can see you. This is the evening's > > > first > > > > moment of truth. How well you do in these practice tests will > > > > determine how you'll respond if a cop pulls you over, or > whether > > > > you'll even risk the drive home. You know these tests by > heart, > > > > having included them in your daily exercise regimen. > > > > Even though you're legally drunk, you easily stand on one leg > for > > > 30 > > > > seconds and walk heel-to-toe in a straight line for nine > steps. > > > > Confidence buoyed, you head for your car. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > Once at your car, you put a bandage over one knee. If you do > > poorly > > > > on a sobriety test, your lawyer can blame it on an injured > leg. > > You > > > > comb your hair and tuck in your shirt. A police officer will > note > > > > your appearance if he pulls you over, and disheveled is bad. > > > > > > > > You have your eye patch ready to put in place. You don't want > an > > > > officer examining your eyes, because nothing will prevent > > > > involuntary reflexes that signal drunkenness. If you've been > > > smoking > > > > pot, start sucking on that lollipop -- a green or brown tongue > is > > > > evidence of marijuana use, which is just as bad as drunken > > driving > > > > under Arizona law. Your bag of groceries in the back seat will > > > serve > > > > as an alibi: "No, officer, I wasn't at a bar. I was just > picking > > up > > > > a few things at the store." > > > > > > > > You fasten your seat belt and prepare for departure. Are your > > > > headlights on? Treat the high-beam switch as if it's > electrified. > > > > Under no circumstances will you use it. > > > > > > > > With the cruise control set precisely at the speed limit, you > > have > > > > one less thing to worry about as you begin your journey. You > will > > > > signal every turn, even though the streets are empty, and > > > > concentrate on keeping a straight line, which shouldn't be too > > > > difficult. You're not plastered -- if you are, you shouldn't > be > > > > behind the wheel -- but you're certainly above the legal > limit. > > > > > > > > Oh, shit! A cop lights you up as soon as you turn onto > Camelback > > > > Road, a favorite hunting ground for Phoenix police. How could > > this > > > > be? Knowing that cops key on drivers who make wide turns -- > they > > > > learn in training that there's a 65 percent probability that a > > > > driver who turns wide is drunk -- you turned as close as > possible > > > to > > > > the edge of the roadway. > > > > > > > > But you didn't come to a complete stop before crossing the > > > sidewalk, > > > > as required by the state traffic code. Try to relax. The cop > > isn't > > > > going to automatically conclude you're drunk as he approaches > > your > > > > car. Smelling like booze doesn't mean your case is open and > shut. > > > > > > > > The officer will take note of things that seem trivial. Did > you > > > stop > > > > right away or did you continue for several blocks before > > > > surrendering? Not stopping as soon as possible is a sign of > > drunken > > > > driving, according to the National Highway Transportation > Safety > > > > Administration. > > > > > > > > The officer will watch closely as you retrieve your license, > > > > registration and insurance card. He's looking for you to > fumble > > > > around, maybe drop something, which is why you've put your > > > paperwork > > > > within easy reach. While you're getting your license, the > officer > > > > will ask you a question -- could be about the weather, could > be > > > > about just about anything, including whether you've had > anything > > to > > > > drink. Don't be caught off guard. The theory is, drunks can't > > focus > > > > on two things at once, so if you can't respond to his query > while > > > > retrieving your papers, you may soon find yourself in > handcuffs. > > > > > > > > At some point, he's going to ask how much you've had to drink. > > > > The "couple beers" answer isn't going to play. Some free > > > > advice: "The minute the cop asks you if you've had anything to > > > > drink, at that point, he's gathering evidence against you," > says > > Ed > > > > Loss, a Phoenix DUI attorney. "Shut the fuck up." > > > > > > > > The officer will ask you to blow into a hand-held breath > tester. > > > Say > > > > no. The results aren't admissible in court because hand-held > > > testers > > > > aren't considered reliable. But the cop isn't going to tell > you > > > > that. He's relying on you to either follow directions from a > > police > > > > officer, like the good citizen you are, or assume that you'll > > > > automatically lose your license for a year if you refuse > (which > > is > > > > true for tests required after the arrest is made). Blame your > > > > recalcitrance on a distrust of technology. Ask the officer how > > that > > > > doohickey works and whether you're required to submit. When he > > says > > > > you're not, politely decline. > > > > > > > > The cop will ask you to perform some field sobriety tests. He > > needs > > > > enough evidence to make an arrest, and he may not have it yet, > > > > especially if you don't reek of alcohol and he stopped you for > > > > something minor like a broken taillight. > > > > > > > > The tests are easy to flub, particularly if you're nervous or > > > > naturally uncoordinated. Sober people often don't perform > well. > > The > > > > tests have one thing in common with driving: The more you do > it, > > > the > > > > better you get. That's why intoxicated drivers aren't obvious > on > > > the > > > > roadway, but completely fall apart when asked to stand on one > leg > > > or > > > > do something else that they never do in real life. > > > > > > > > Too bad if you make a mistake. Given that practice improves > > > > performance, the cops don't allow do-overs. Most defense > lawyers > > > say > > > > you shouldn't do the tests, but declining can be awkward and > look > > > > suspicious, especially if you've just said no to a breath > test. > > So > > > > you face a crucial decision: You can refuse and limit the > > evidence > > > > that can be used against you if you're arrested and take the > case > > > to > > > > court. Or you can roll the dice, banking that you'll pass and > > > > convince the officer that you're okay to drive. > > > > > > > > > > > > The federal government has certified just three sobriety tests > as > > > > accurate in determining whether a person is intoxicated. > > > > They include: > > > > > > > > Horizontal gaze nystagmus, or HGN. > > > > > > > > This is the one where the officer puts a pen in front of your > > face > > > > and asks you to follow it with your eyes as he moves it from > side > > > to > > > > side. He's looking for your eyeballs to jerk. With an 83 > percent > > > > accuracy rate, this is the most accurate field sobriety test > on > > the > > > > planet, and the police officer isn't going to care that the > > jerking > > > > occurs naturally in some people or that some substances, > > including > > > > nicotine, may exacerbate the jerking effect, as do some > diseases, > > > > including syphilis. Practice won't help, nor will a high > > tolerance > > > > to alcohol. It is, therefore, a test to be avoided. > > > > > > > > But how to say no? The test is not valid if a person has just > one > > > > eye available. Remember at the beginning of this story, where > we > > > > talked about having an eye patch ready? You might also tell > the > > > > officer about that pesky tic that causes your eyes to blink > > > > involuntarily; blinking can be caused by anti-psychotic drugs, > > > > Tourette's syndrome and a host of other disorders. Or you can > > keep > > > > something handy to put into one of your eyes, say, mascara or > a > > > > cigarette ash, which forces blinks and also explains your > > bloodshot > > > > eyes. > > > > > > > > The one-leg stand. > > > > > > > > An officer will ask you to stand on one leg, arms at your > side, > > and > > > > count to 30 out loud. The feds say this test is 65 percent > > accurate > > > > in identifying drunks. However, it's not valid if a person is > > more > > > > than 50 pounds overweight. Nor should it be given if the > person > > has > > > > a leg or back injury. Consider limping or groaning in pain as > you > > > > step out of the car. When the officer asks you if you have any > > > > injuries -- and he should, before administering the test -- > tell > > > him > > > > about that tumble you took from your bicycle yesterday. > > > > > > > > The walk-and-turn. > > > > > > > > You will be asked to walk heel-toe in a straight line for nine > > > > steps, arms at your sides, then pivot and walk back to the > > officer > > > > in the same fashion. The walk-and-turn is 68 percent accurate > in > > > > pegging drunks. As with the one-leg stand, it isn't valid if > > you're > > > > fat or injured. > > > > > > > > If you decide to do the tests, listen carefully when the > officer > > > > gives the instructions. The officer will tell you to start > when > > he > > > > wants you to begin. This part of the instructions will not be > > > > emphasized, but it is crucial. You are allowed just one > mistake. > > > > Starting before being told to begin counts as that one > mistake. > > > Make > > > > it and you have no margin for error. > > > > > > > > Figure out which sobriety tests you're best at and steer the > cop > > > > toward them. Police do have back-up tests; how else would they > be > > > > able to test paraplegic motorists? A finger-dexterity test in > > which > > > > the suspected drunk sequentially touches fingertips to thumb > is > > > easy > > > > to master. First touch your index finger to thumb, then middle > > > > finger, then ring, then pinkie, counting each touch out > > loud: "One, > > > > two, three, four." When you reach the end, touch the pinkie > again > > > > and do it in reverse order, this time counting > backward: "Four, > > > > three, two, one." Using the hand that's not holding your > drink, > > you > > > > can practice all night long without anyone noticing. > > > > > > > > There's a risk to field sobriety tests even if you haven't > been > > > > drinking. If you don't do well and a breath test shows you > have > > > > little or no alcohol in your system, the police will look for > > > drugs. > > > > You'll be asked to undergo an examination by a so-called drug > > > > recognition expert who's supposed to be able to tell whether > > you're > > > > high and, if so, what drug you're on. > > > > > > > > You're not required to submit to this examination, but you can > be > > > > ordered to provide a urine sample. And, as any pot smoker > who's > > > > sweated a pee test knows, the test can come back positive even > if > > > > you weren't stoned at the time you peed. > > > > > > > > Urine tests don't measure drugs. Rather, they measure > > metabolites, > > > > which are by-products produced as the body processes > controlled > > > > substances. In the case of marijuana, metabolites can linger > as > > > long > > > > as 30 days after the last puff. Cocaine, heroin and > > methamphetamine > > > > metabolites disappear within three days. > > > > > > > > Under Arizona law, you're guilty of DUI if you have a > metabolite > > in > > > > your system, even if you're not under the influence. "It's a > > > > situation where if you've smoked pot in the last 30 days, even > if > > > > you haven't in the last two weeks, you're still going to get > the > > > DUI > > > > for that," says Daniel Jaffe, a Scottsdale DUI lawyer. "It > really > > > > happens. At any given time, I have a case like that." > > > > > > > > All right. You've really blown it. You weren't driving > terribly, > > > but > > > > you flunked the field sobriety tests and got arrested. Maybe > you > > > > puked and peed your pants in the patrol car. Now it's time for > > the > > > > most important test of all: the blood-alcohol test, which will > be > > > > given at a police station or a van set up to process DUI > > suspects. > > > > > > > > If you got busted in Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa, Tempe or > > Scottsdale, > > > > you picked the wrong town to drink and drive in. Police in > these > > > > cities are licensed phlebotomists, and they have their own > blood > > > > labs. A blood test is considered the most accurate way of > > > > determining a person's blood-alcohol level. If, for some > reason, > > > > they take you to a hospital for the blood test, count your > > > > blessings. A hospital won't draw blood if you don't sign a > > > liability > > > > waiver that says you won't sue anybody for any reason. In the > > eyes > > > > of the state, you haven't refused a test, so you won't lose > your > > > > license. > > > > > > > > If you got picked up by a state trooper or a Phoenix officer, > > > you'll > > > > be blowing into a machine called the Intoxilyzer 5000, which > is a > > > > defense attorney's delight. > > > > > > > > The machine has a 10 percent margin of error, so if it shows > you > > > > have a .08 blood-alcohol level, you may actually be below the > > legal > > > > limit. A jury might be interested in hearing that you'd just > > eaten > > > a > > > > sandwich. Bread has been shown to inflate breath alcohol > > readings, > > > > as has mouthwash. > > > > > > > > The bottom line is, police who use breath tests are doing you > a > > > > favor. A good DUI lawyer can convince a jury that the results > are > > > > wrong, especially if it's a borderline case. > > > > > > > > Refuse a breath test and you'll find yourself in deeper > trouble. > > > > Police will call the county jail, where a judge is on duty > 24/7, > > > and > > > > get a search warrant to draw blood. If necessary, they'll > strap > > you > > > > to a chair. They'll then have evidence that's tough to beat in > > > > court, and you'll lose your license for a year for refusing > the > > > > test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > So, how much of this advice might actually work? I decided to > get > > > > drunk and find out. > > > > > > > > Not being cocky, I didn't get soused and hit the highway. I > > called > > > > Ed Loss, the DUI lawyer, who rounded up some experts with > > > > Intoxilyzers and a portable breath tester to try the theories. > > Then > > > > I persuaded three co-workers to give it a shot on a recent > > Saturday > > > > morning. Nothing like a drinking binge to start your day. > > > > > > > > I was interested in two things: Could I pass the field tests > > while > > > > shit-faced? And what would the breath machines say? > > > > > > > > With the Olympic Games as inspiration, I trained. But not too > > hard, > > > > and not too long. Just standing on one leg and walking heel- > toe > > > > during a few drinking bouts in the days leading up to the main > > > > event. I got pretty good. I found out that I was much better > at > > > > standing on my right leg than on my left, which was good to > know, > > > > given that the cops let you choose which leg to stand on. > > > > > > > > My colleagues didn't prepare at all. It was me against them: > Who > > > > would do the best on the tests? > > > > > > > > The initial results weren't encouraging. Stone sober, three of > > us, > > > > including me, failed at least one of the sobriety tests. > Having > > > been > > > > up late the night before, drinking, I figured I was just > tired. > > > That > > > > was why I put my foot down during the one-leg stand. I did not > > > > despair. I started drinking. > > > > > > > > I gave my colleagues moderate pours of Absolut. I lost track > of > > how > > > > much I drank, but it was a lot more than they did. I started > with > > a > > > > healthy shot. Then a greyhound. Then another shot. Then more > > > > greyhounds. While everyone else was in the living room or out > by > > > the > > > > pool, I was sneaking drinks in the kitchen. And it showed. I > was > > > > stirring drinks with my fingers and offering them up. About 90 > > > > minutes after we began, my blood-alcohol level was .11, > according > > > to > > > > the Intoxilyzer. The portable breath tester, however, pegged > me > > > > at .15. > > > > > > > > I tried to hide my smugness as I watched my co-workers fail > their > > > > tests, even though they weren't legally drunk. The woman who'd > > > > passed her tests while sober failed every one, even though her > > > blood- > > > > alcohol level was .053 on the Intoxilyzer and .06 on the > portable > > > > breath test. Then it was my turn. > > > > > > > > I aced the walk-and-turn. I failed the one-leg stand, but just > > > > barely. Chuck Laroue, a Bisbee private investigator, decreed > that > > > my > > > > toes weren't sufficiently pointed and that I'd swayed once. He > > > > allowed that it was a close call, but he was grading strictly, > as > > > an > > > > officer would at roadside. "They're looking to fail you," he > > > warned. > > > > Using a blank form from the Chandler Police Department, I > > reviewed > > > > the instructions officers must read to suspects before > > > administering > > > > the test: Nowhere does it say that a suspect's toes must be > > > pointed. > > > > > > > > In any case, my colleagues fared substantially worse than I, > even > > > > though they weren't over the legal limit. Not surprisingly, I > did > > > > horribly on the HGN exam. On the plus side, Laroue said none > of > > us > > > > smelled strongly of alcohol. > > > > > > > > The Intoxilyzer worked -- or didn't work, depending on your > > > > perspective -- exactly as billed. Bread registered a .05 when > > > Laroue > > > > put a slice in his mouth, but the machine, which is supposed > to > > > > signal the presence of alcohol in the mouth, rang an alarm. > The > > > > alarm remained silent, however, when he put Scope in his > mouth. > > > > According to the machine, this perfectly sober person had a > blood- > > > > alcohol level of .46, enough to kill most people. > > > > > > > > All this looked like convincing stuff for a jury, but no one > > wants > > > > their case to get that far. Better not to get pulled over in > the > > > > first place and better to fool the cops if you do. I came away > > > > convinced a drunkard really does have a chance. All I need is > a > > bit > > > > more practice. No more quarters -- instead of traditional > > drinking > > > > games, I'm switching to field sobriety tests: The last one > left > > > > standing on one leg wins. > > > > > > > > Party on. > > > > > > > > E-mail bruce.rushton@n..., or call 602-407-1715. > > > > > > > > Government is the great fiction, through > > > > which everybody endeavors to live at the > > > > expense of everybody else. > > > > > > > > Frederic Bastiat, French Economist > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > > > BUST Magazine: For > > > > Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests > > > > Subscribe at http://www.bust.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Community Web Page: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/community/lpaz-discuss > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > > BUST Magazine: For > > > Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests > > > Subscribe at http://www.bust.com From: "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> Date: Tue Sep 7, 2004 7:05 pm Subject: Re: DUI laws - they are only for the revenue $$$$$$$$ ADVERTISEMENT David, I don't disagree with anything you said here. Quite frankly, I was expecting more "purists" to take a position similar to Mike's. I think another way of stating what you said is that you can't violate the NIFP (for the 99% who are innocent) when you try to defend yourself from the 1% who are violating the NIFP. I think there is still a problem with our position... if we define a reckless behavior which has a X% chance of harming someone as a crime, even when we can't point to victim (YET), then who gets to decide the threshold? Should the maximum allowed X be 90% or .1%? Within your example, how should the BAC threshold be set- who gets to set it and what formula should they use? Daniel --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "maywood2008" <gonzolawyer@c...> wrote: > Daniel, > > I agree with you in principle. But some explanation is necessary. > > Mike Ross typically will deny that an initiation of force has > occurred if another person is not actually harmed. I.e., I've > noticed he does not acknowledge that someone behaving recklessly is > committing an assault on everyone who comes into contact with such a > person. Because you cannot define any one person who has been > victimized by a drunk driver who has not hit anyone YET, Mike would > suggest that there is no victim. > > However, Mike is right to suggest that the law is seriously flawed. > > Every state in the country (correct me if I'm wrong on "every") uses > a threshold of 0.08% BAC to determine whether someone is driving > drunk. Congress mandated this by denying federal highway funds to > any state which did not comply. So in Arizona, you can be arrested > for .08 for DUI, and .15 is extreme DUI. > > Under Arizona law (ARS 28-1381 et seq), having BAC at .08 means that > you SHALL be presumed to be driving under the influence. This is > ridiculous. Most experienced social drinkers of average weight (such > as myself) hit BAC .08 around 2 drinks, yet I have never been even > remotely intoxicated after only 2 drinks. Plus, the breathalyzers > are notoriously inaccurate and regularly overreport the BAC (this is > why cops would rather extract blood samples if possible), so you end > up getting charged and having to hire Marc Victor to go to court for > you and knock it down to reckless driving. The result is you're out > a couple grand to the lawyer, a couple grand in court costs etc., > and you lose your driver's license for a certain period of time. > This is patently unfair for a person who had two drinks and wasn't > even remotely intoxicated. > > Yeah sure, the cops make you do the stupid human tricks before > arresting you, but those are so incredibly subjective that a "law > enforcement officer" (as opposed to a peace officer) can write down > that you failed even though you passed with flying colors. > > If the DUI laws were reasonable and police officers enforced them > reasonably, then I wouldn't have a problem and I certainly would not > call DUI a victimless crime. But the way the laws are written & > enforced right now, many who are charged with DUI are, in fact, > truly innocent of any crime. > > David Euchner > > > > --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> wrote: > > Mike, > > So what about other similar actions? > > Should you be able to shoot a gun into the air in a city or > perhaps > > shoot 1 in from someone's head without anyone having the right to > > stop you (as long as you get lucky and don't hurt anyone)? What > > about the right to self-defense? Doesn't the person who the drunk > > driver might slam into or the person who the bullet might land > > upon have the right to defend himself against these types of > > actions? Doesn't he have the right to ask others (e.g, the state) > > for help in his self-defense? If not, why not? > > > > Daniel > > > > > > --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, mike ross <getlibdis@b...> > wrote: > > > my view is it should not be a crime to drive drunk. > > > > > > my view is if you drive drunk and hurt someone you > > > should be liable for the damages caused. and it > > > should not be a crime. > > > > > > my view is that we paid for the public roads and > > > should be able to use them if we are drunk or > > > stoned. > > > > > > but thats my political view. i think driving > > > while your drunk or stoned is a very stupid > > > thing to do. and if you do it your just and > > > accident waiting to happen. > > > > > > of course the best thing to do would be to > > > get rid of all the government roads and > > > privatize them all and let the owners of > > > private property decide on if drunks > > > should be allowed to use their roads. > > > of course that aint going to happen soon. > > > > > > mike > > > > > > Government is the great fiction, through > > > which everybody endeavors to live at the > > > expense of everybody else. > > > > > > Frederic Bastiat, French Economist > > > > > > > > > > > > --- "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> wrote: > > > > > > What are some possible LBT positions on drunk driving? We know > it > > > implies a high probability that someone will get hurt, but the > > actual > > > act of driving drunk doesn't directly harm anyone. To be > consistent > > > with NIFP, would the 'state' have to wait until after the > accident > > to > > > punish the drunk driver? > > > > > > It also seems in a truly free market, the owner of the road > might > > not > > > permit you onto his road if you are drunk. Your insurance > company > > > would probably drop your policy if you failed their sobriety > tests. > > > > > > Are there other ways to think about this? Is there any way the > > NIFP > > > can be used to argue that the state should step in and protect > the > > > life and property of the other people on the road (from the > drunk > > > driver)? > > > > > > I guess I could ask this question about an analogous action; say > > > shooting your gun into the air in a city - as long as the bullet > > > doesn't happen to land on someone or someone's property who > might > > get > > > harmed or mad, then should you be free to shoot? > > > > > > Thoughts anyone? > > > > > > Daniel > > > > > > "--- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, mike ross <getlibdis@b...> > > > wrote: > > > > the new times dui article follows my comments. > > > > > > > > DUI busts are about revenue, not saving > > > > lives or making the streets save. > > > > > > > > in the 60's legal limit was .15, then > > > > it went to .10 and now its .08 in all > > > > 50 states. > > > > > > > > i think when it went from .10 to .08 > > > > it was because the feds told the states > > > > that if they lowered the limit they > > > > would get more federal $$$$. i dont > > > > know the story of why they went nationwide > > > > from .15 to .10. maybe one of you has > > > > that story. but i suspect it was about > > > > $$$$. > > > > > > > > with the low limit of .08 i think the cops > > > > and city government know that drunk > > > > drivers are easy pickings to raise revenue > > > > and they just follow the smell of money. > > > > > > > > the advice i use is always refuse to talk to > > > > the cops and take the 5th. the new times seems > > > > to disagree with that. and i disagree with them. > > > > > > > > the tests seem to be very hard to pass even for > > > > sober people to take. so if a sober person can > > > > fail them you should not even think about taking > > > > a test which can give the cop probable cause > > > > to arrest you with. some of percents follow. > > > > > > > > > > > > they learn in training that there's a 65 percent > > > > probability that a driver who turns wide is drunk > > > > > > > > which means over a third of the people stopped > > > > are NOT drunk > > > > > > > > The tests are easy to flub, particularly if you're > > > > nervous or naturally uncoordinated. Sober people > > > > often don't perform well. > > > > > > > > gee sober people cant pass them. which must > > > > mean drunks cant pass them either. so if you > > > > drunk why take the test and give the cop > > > > probable cause to bust you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Horizontal gaze nystagmus, or HGN - 83 percent accuracy > rate, > > > > > > > > one fifth of people who fail the test are NOT drunk. > > > > > > > > The one-leg stand - 65 percent accurate in identifying > drunks. > > > > > > > > almost half the people who fail are not drunk > > > > > > > > The walk-and-turn - 68 percent accurate > > > > > > > > one third of the people who fail are not drunk > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/current/feature.html > > > > > > > > How to drink and drive and get away with it > > > > - and just in time for Labor Day weekend > > > > BY BRUCE RUSHTON > > > > feedback@n... > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Newton > > > > > > > > Looking like this might get you out of a field sobriety test. > > > > > > > > Cherry lollipop? Check. > > > > Eye patch? Check. > > > > > > > > Bandage on knee? Check. > > > > > > > > Loaf of bread open on the passenger seat, next to a half- empty > > > > bottle of Scope? Check. > > > > > > > > Bag of groceries with disposable diapers on top? Check. > > > > > > > > Driver's license, registration and proof of insurance within > easy > > > > reach? Check. > > > > > > > > Cell phone turned off and put away? Check. > > > > > > > > Taillights, brake lights and turn signals working properly? > > Check. > > > > > > > > You're now ready to head for the bar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > You won't be taking a taxi home tonight. A cab ride might cost > > only > > > > $25, but you'd have to pay again tomorrow morning to retrieve > > your > > > > car. That money is better spent on booze. > > > > > > > > Sure, this is a gamble, but you're playing the odds. And with > so > > > > many ill-prepared drunks on the roads, the odds are in your > > favor. > > > > > > > > If this was Vegas, you'd empty your bank account to make this > > bet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > No one likes drunk drivers. They kill. They maim. They destroy > > > > lives. > > > > > > > > But what is drunk? During the Nixon administration, the legal > > limit > > > > in most states was .15. Then it became .10. In July, Delaware > > > became > > > > the 50th state to pass a .08 limit, which Arizona adopted six > > years > > > > ago. > > > > > > > > "This .08 thing is a load of crap and it pisses me off," says > > > > Theodore Agnick, a Tempe defense attorney who specializes in > DUI > > > > cases. "We don't want -- and I'm sure you don't want -- > somebody > > > > who's hammered who's going to run into a wall out there. But > > > > these .08s? That's a regular person. Instead of patrolling at > > night > > > > looking for people who pose a risk to you and me, they're in > > front > > > > of a bar pulling people over right and left to generate > numbers. > > It > > > > has nothing to do with making it safe." > > > > Research backs Agnick. You may not be as good a driver at .08 > as > > > you > > > > are sober, but three academic studies have shown you're less > > > > dangerous than someone who talks on a cell phone while > driving. > > > > There's scant evidence that .08 has lowered the highway death > > toll, > > > > which has remained essentially flat during the past decade. > The > > > > General Accounting Office said so in a study refuting claims > by > > the > > > > National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. Even > > Candace > > > > Lightner, MADD founder who left the group in the 1980s, has > told > > > the > > > > media that the focus should be on .15 or higher. > > > > > > > > In Arizona, you'll pay a higher fine for drunken driving than > you > > > > will for running over someone on a bicycle, even if the > cyclist > > > > dies. But the zealots aren't going away. Neither are local > cops, > > > who > > > > earn as much as $120,000 a year busting drunks, then racking > up > > > > overtime in court and license revocation hearings. Just in > time > > for > > > > the extension of bar hours to 2 a.m., the Phoenix Police > > Department > > > > has changed shifts for DUI officers, who arrested 3,425 > drivers > > > > during the past year while working four days a week. Now, > they're > > > on > > > > the road five days a week. > > > > > > > > It's easy to get pulled over. Police acknowledge that obeying > > every > > > > traffic law is virtually impossible. "Have you seen the state > > > > traffic code? It's that thick," says Detective Rob Krautheim, > > > > Chandler police spokesman. "I could probably get pulled over > > > without > > > > knowing I did anything wrong." > > > > > > > > So a drunk must learn to be careful out there. Hopping in your > > car, > > > > driving well and hoping for the best won't work. Educate > > yourself, > > > > realize what lies in store if you're pulled over, and be > > prepared. > > > > > > > > And cheers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > You've chosen your watering hole carefully. It's just a few > > blocks > > > > from a series of subdivisions that, navigated properly, will > get > > > you > > > > most of the way home without venturing onto main drags that > will > > > > soon be crawling with drunks and cops looking to pull them > over. > > > > You've scouted the route, so you know which roads end up as > cul- > > de- > > > > sacs and which take you toward your destination. At no point > will > > > > you be driving more than two blocks on a main thoroughfare. > > > > > > > > Sober and safe, you take the main roads to the bar. No > guarantees > > > > where the cops will be at closing time, but it's a good idea > to > > > take > > > > note of where they are before your first cocktail. > > > > > > > > The bar parking lot is half-full when you arrive, but you > > continue > > > > on to a nearby supermarket that's even closer to the side > > streets. > > > > You've heard too many hard-luck tales from drunks busted by > cops > > > who > > > > just happened to be outside the bar at closing time. Besides, > the > > > > walk back to your car will do you good. > > > > > > > > You note the time as you order your first drink. And it is a > > drink, > > > > not a beer or a glass of wine. Fermented beverages produce the > > > > strongest odor of alcohol. Briefly, you consider the merits of > > > Crown > > > > Royal or Bombay, but you are disciplined. > > > > > > > > You're sticking with Absolut. It's the flavorings in booze > that > > > make > > > > you smell like a distillery. Vodka, especially premium brands, > > > > provides the highest safety margin. > > > > > > > > You know from studying blood-alcohol charts that a person your > > size > > > > should be able to have three drinks in the first hour without > > going > > > > over the legal limit. You also know the body burns off alcohol > > much > > > > slower than it absorbs it -- approximately one drink per hour > > will > > > > disappear from your system. You do the math in your head as > you > > > take > > > > your first sip. You plan on being here for three hours. The > > charts > > > > say you can have nine and still be comfortably below the .15 > > > > threshold that spells a mandatory 10 days in jail; there's > always > > a > > > > chance you could lose this bet, so you should hedge a bit. You > > know > > > > the charts are only a rough guide. Your maximum tonight is > eight. > > > > You ask the bartender to set you up a tab -- better to have > two > > > > people counting than one. > > > > > > > > You watch the baseball game, shoot pool with friends, flirt > with > > > the > > > > barmaid. Just before the kitchen closes, you order a basket of > > > fries > > > > to help sop up your final drinks and slow their journey into > your > > > > bloodstream. You also start drinking water. You don't want to > > risk > > > > the head-swimming effects of dehydration on top of an alcohol > > buzz. > > > > Every time you go to the rest room, you stand on one leg in > the > > > > stall after relieving yourself, gauging your ability to keep > your > > > > balance. > > > > > > > > Over at the dartboard is a group of shit-faced drunks. They're > > > loud, > > > > singing along with the jukebox, spilling drinks and stumbling > as > > > > they walk from their table to the board. You don't know them, > but > > > > they are your best friends as closing time approaches. You > will > > > make > > > > your escape just after they leave. If a cop is lurking > outside, > > > they > > > > can be the ones who get arrested, not you. > > > > > > > > Finally, it is time to go. > > > > > > > > Instead of walking directly to your car, you go behind a > > building -- > > > > > > > not the bar, which cops may be watching -- and practice field > > > > sobriety tests where no one can see you. This is the evening's > > > first > > > > moment of truth. How well you do in these practice tests will > > > > determine how you'll respond if a cop pulls you over, or > whether > > > > you'll even risk the drive home. You know these tests by > heart, > > > > having included them in your daily exercise regimen. > > > > Even though you're legally drunk, you easily stand on one leg > for > > > 30 > > > > seconds and walk heel-to-toe in a straight line for nine > steps. > > > > Confidence buoyed, you head for your car. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > Once at your car, you put a bandage over one knee. If you do > > poorly > > > > on a sobriety test, your lawyer can blame it on an injured > leg. > > You > > > > comb your hair and tuck in your shirt. A police officer will > note > > > > your appearance if he pulls you over, and disheveled is bad. > > > > > > > > You have your eye patch ready to put in place. You don't want > an > > > > officer examining your eyes, because nothing will prevent > > > > involuntary reflexes that signal drunkenness. If you've been > > > smoking > > > > pot, start sucking on that lollipop -- a green or brown tongue > is > > > > evidence of marijuana use, which is just as bad as drunken > > driving > > > > under Arizona law. Your bag of groceries in the back seat will > > > serve > > > > as an alibi: "No, officer, I wasn't at a bar. I was just > picking > > up > > > > a few things at the store." > > > > > > > > You fasten your seat belt and prepare for departure. Are your > > > > headlights on? Treat the high-beam switch as if it's > electrified. > > > > Under no circumstances will you use it. > > > > > > > > With the cruise control set precisely at the speed limit, you > > have > > > > one less thing to worry about as you begin your journey. You > will > > > > signal every turn, even though the streets are empty, and > > > > concentrate on keeping a straight line, which shouldn't be too > > > > difficult. You're not plastered -- if you are, you shouldn't > be > > > > behind the wheel -- but you're certainly above the legal > limit. > > > > > > > > Oh, shit! A cop lights you up as soon as you turn onto > Camelback > > > > Road, a favorite hunting ground for Phoenix police. How could > > this > > > > be? Knowing that cops key on drivers who make wide turns -- > they > > > > learn in training that there's a 65 percent probability that a > > > > driver who turns wide is drunk -- you turned as close as > possible > > > to > > > > the edge of the roadway. > > > > > > > > But you didn't come to a complete stop before crossing the > > > sidewalk, > > > > as required by the state traffic code. Try to relax. The cop > > isn't > > > > going to automatically conclude you're drunk as he approaches > > your > > > > car. Smelling like booze doesn't mean your case is open and > shut. > > > > > > > > The officer will take note of things that seem trivial. Did > you > > > stop > > > > right away or did you continue for several blocks before > > > > surrendering? Not stopping as soon as possible is a sign of > > drunken > > > > driving, according to the National Highway Transportation > Safety > > > > Administration. > > > > > > > > The officer will watch closely as you retrieve your license, > > > > registration and insurance card. He's looking for you to > fumble > > > > around, maybe drop something, which is why you've put your > > > paperwork > > > > within easy reach. While you're getting your license, the > officer > > > > will ask you a question -- could be about the weather, could > be > > > > about just about anything, including whether you've had > anything > > to > > > > drink. Don't be caught off guard. The theory is, drunks can't > > focus > > > > on two things at once, so if you can't respond to his query > while > > > > retrieving your papers, you may soon find yourself in > handcuffs. > > > > > > > > At some point, he's going to ask how much you've had to drink. > > > > The "couple beers" answer isn't going to play. Some free > > > > advice: "The minute the cop asks you if you've had anything to > > > > drink, at that point, he's gathering evidence against you," > says > > Ed > > > > Loss, a Phoenix DUI attorney. "Shut the fuck up." > > > > > > > > The officer will ask you to blow into a hand-held breath > tester. > > > Say > > > > no. The results aren't admissible in court because hand-held > > > testers > > > > aren't considered reliable. But the cop isn't going to tell > you > > > > that. He's relying on you to either follow directions from a > > police > > > > officer, like the good citizen you are, or assume that you'll > > > > automatically lose your license for a year if you refuse > (which > > is > > > > true for tests required after the arrest is made). Blame your > > > > recalcitrance on a distrust of technology. Ask the officer how > > that > > > > doohickey works and whether you're required to submit. When he > > says > > > > you're not, politely decline. > > > > > > > > The cop will ask you to perform some field sobriety tests. He > > needs > > > > enough evidence to make an arrest, and he may not have it yet, > > > > especially if you don't reek of alcohol and he stopped you for > > > > something minor like a broken taillight. > > > > > > > > The tests are easy to flub, particularly if you're nervous or > > > > naturally uncoordinated. Sober people often don't perform > well. > > The > > > > tests have one thing in common with driving: The more you do > it, > > > the > > > > better you get. That's why intoxicated drivers aren't obvious > on > > > the > > > > roadway, but completely fall apart when asked to stand on one > leg > > > or > > > > do something else that they never do in real life. > > > > > > > > Too bad if you make a mistake. Given that practice improves > > > > performance, the cops don't allow do-overs. Most defense > lawyers > > > say > > > > you shouldn't do the tests, but declining can be awkward and > look > > > > suspicious, especially if you've just said no to a breath > test. > > So > > > > you face a crucial decision: You can refuse and limit the > > evidence > > > > that can be used against you if you're arrested and take the > case > > > to > > > > court. Or you can roll the dice, banking that you'll pass and > > > > convince the officer that you're okay to drive. > > > > > > > > > > > > The federal government has certified just three sobriety tests > as > > > > accurate in determining whether a person is intoxicated. > > > > They include: > > > > > > > > Horizontal gaze nystagmus, or HGN. > > > > > > > > This is the one where the officer puts a pen in front of your > > face > > > > and asks you to follow it with your eyes as he moves it from > side > > > to > > > > side. He's looking for your eyeballs to jerk. With an 83 > percent > > > > accuracy rate, this is the most accurate field sobriety test > on > > the > > > > planet, and the police officer isn't going to care that the > > jerking > > > > occurs naturally in some people or that some substances, > > including > > > > nicotine, may exacerbate the jerking effect, as do some > diseases, > > > > including syphilis. Practice won't help, nor will a high > > tolerance > > > > to alcohol. It is, therefore, a test to be avoided. > > > > > > > > But how to say no? The test is not valid if a person has just > one > > > > eye available. Remember at the beginning of this story, where > we > > > > talked about having an eye patch ready? You might also tell > the > > > > officer about that pesky tic that causes your eyes to blink > > > > involuntarily; blinking can be caused by anti-psychotic drugs, > > > > Tourette's syndrome and a host of other disorders. Or you can > > keep > > > > something handy to put into one of your eyes, say, mascara or > a > > > > cigarette ash, which forces blinks and also explains your > > bloodshot > > > > eyes. > > > > > > > > The one-leg stand. > > > > > > > > An officer will ask you to stand on one leg, arms at your > side, > > and > > > > count to 30 out loud. The feds say this test is 65 percent > > accurate > > > > in identifying drunks. However, it's not valid if a person is > > more > > > > than 50 pounds overweight. Nor should it be given if the > person > > has > > > > a leg or back injury. Consider limping or groaning in pain as > you > > > > step out of the car. When the officer asks you if you have any > > > > injuries -- and he should, before administering the test -- > tell > > > him > > > > about that tumble you took from your bicycle yesterday. > > > > > > > > The walk-and-turn. > > > > > > > > You will be asked to walk heel-toe in a straight line for nine > > > > steps, arms at your sides, then pivot and walk back to the > > officer > > > > in the same fashion. The walk-and-turn is 68 percent accurate > in > > > > pegging drunks. As with the one-leg stand, it isn't valid if > > you're > > > > fat or injured. > > > > > > > > If you decide to do the tests, listen carefully when the > officer > > > > gives the instructions. The officer will tell you to start > when > > he > > > > wants you to begin. This part of the instructions will not be > > > > emphasized, but it is crucial. You are allowed just one > mistake. > > > > Starting before being told to begin counts as that one > mistake. > > > Make > > > > it and you have no margin for error. > > > > > > > > Figure out which sobriety tests you're best at and steer the > cop > > > > toward them. Police do have back-up tests; how else would they > be > > > > able to test paraplegic motorists? A finger-dexterity test in > > which > > > > the suspected drunk sequentially touches fingertips to thumb > is > > > easy > > > > to master. First touch your index finger to thumb, then middle > > > > finger, then ring, then pinkie, counting each touch out > > loud: "One, > > > > two, three, four." When you reach the end, touch the pinkie > again > > > > and do it in reverse order, this time counting > backward: "Four, > > > > three, two, one." Using the hand that's not holding your > drink, > > you > > > > can practice all night long without anyone noticing. > > > > > > > > There's a risk to field sobriety tests even if you haven't > been > > > > drinking. If you don't do well and a breath test shows you > have > > > > little or no alcohol in your system, the police will look for > > > drugs. > > > > You'll be asked to undergo an examination by a so-called drug > > > > recognition expert who's supposed to be able to tell whether > > you're > > > > high and, if so, what drug you're on. > > > > > > > > You're not required to submit to this examination, but you can > be > > > > ordered to provide a urine sample. And, as any pot smoker > who's > > > > sweated a pee test knows, the test can come back positive even > if > > > > you weren't stoned at the time you peed. > > > > > > > > Urine tests don't measure drugs. Rather, they measure > > metabolites, > > > > which are by-products produced as the body processes > controlled > > > > substances. In the case of marijuana, metabolites can linger > as > > > long > > > > as 30 days after the last puff. Cocaine, heroin and > > methamphetamine > > > > metabolites disappear within three days. > > > > > > > > Under Arizona law, you're guilty of DUI if you have a > metabolite > > in > > > > your system, even if you're not under the influence. "It's a > > > > situation where if you've smoked pot in the last 30 days, even > if > > > > you haven't in the last two weeks, you're still going to get > the > > > DUI > > > > for that," says Daniel Jaffe, a Scottsdale DUI lawyer. "It > really > > > > happens. At any given time, I have a case like that." > > > > > > > > All right. You've really blown it. You weren't driving > terribly, > > > but > > > > you flunked the field sobriety tests and got arrested. Maybe > you > > > > puked and peed your pants in the patrol car. Now it's time for > > the > > > > most important test of all: the blood-alcohol test, which will > be > > > > given at a police station or a van set up to process DUI > > suspects. > > > > > > > > If you got busted in Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa, Tempe or > > Scottsdale, > > > > you picked the wrong town to drink and drive in. Police in > these > > > > cities are licensed phlebotomists, and they have their own > blood > > > > labs. A blood test is considered the most accurate way of > > > > determining a person's blood-alcohol level. If, for some > reason, > > > > they take you to a hospital for the blood test, count your > > > > blessings. A hospital won't draw blood if you don't sign a > > > liability > > > > waiver that says you won't sue anybody for any reason. In the > > eyes > > > > of the state, you haven't refused a test, so you won't lose > your > > > > license. > > > > > > > > If you got picked up by a state trooper or a Phoenix officer, > > > you'll > > > > be blowing into a machine called the Intoxilyzer 5000, which > is a > > > > defense attorney's delight. > > > > > > > > The machine has a 10 percent margin of error, so if it shows > you > > > > have a .08 blood-alcohol level, you may actually be below the > > legal > > > > limit. A jury might be interested in hearing that you'd just > > eaten > > > a > > > > sandwich. Bread has been shown to inflate breath alcohol > > readings, > > > > as has mouthwash. > > > > > > > > The bottom line is, police who use breath tests are doing you > a > > > > favor. A good DUI lawyer can convince a jury that the results > are > > > > wrong, especially if it's a borderline case. > > > > > > > > Refuse a breath test and you'll find yourself in deeper > trouble. > > > > Police will call the county jail, where a judge is on duty > 24/7, > > > and > > > > get a search warrant to draw blood. If necessary, they'll > strap > > you > > > > to a chair. They'll then have evidence that's tough to beat in > > > > court, and you'll lose your license for a year for refusing > the > > > > test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- - > --- > > -- > > > - > > > > ----------- > > > > > > > > So, how much of this advice might actually work? I decided to > get > > > > drunk and find out. > > > > > > > > Not being cocky, I didn't get soused and hit the highway. I > > called > > > > Ed Loss, the DUI lawyer, who rounded up some experts with > > > > Intoxilyzers and a portable breath tester to try the theories. > > Then > > > > I persuaded three co-workers to give it a shot on a recent > > Saturday > > > > morning. Nothing like a drinking binge to start your day. > > > > > > > > I was interested in two things: Could I pass the field tests > > while > > > > shit-faced? And what would the breath machines say? > > > > > > > > With the Olympic Games as inspiration, I trained. But not too > > hard, > > > > and not too long. Just standing on one leg and walking heel- > toe > > > > during a few drinking bouts in the days leading up to the main > > > > event. I got pretty good. I found out that I was much better > at > > > > standing on my right leg than on my left, which was good to > know, > > > > given that the cops let you choose which leg to stand on. > > > > > > > > My colleagues didn't prepare at all. It was me against them: > Who > > > > would do the best on the tests? > > > > > > > > The initial results weren't encouraging. Stone sober, three of > > us, > > > > including me, failed at least one of the sobriety tests. > Having > > > been > > > > up late the night before, drinking, I figured I was just > tired. > > > That > > > > was why I put my foot down during the one-leg stand. I did not > > > > despair. I started drinking. > > > > > > > > I gave my colleagues moderate pours of Absolut. I lost track > of > > how > > > > much I drank, but it was a lot more than they did. I started > with > > a > > > > healthy shot. Then a greyhound. Then another shot. Then more > > > > greyhounds. While everyone else was in the living room or out > by > > > the > > > > pool, I was sneaking drinks in the kitchen. And it showed. I > was > > > > stirring drinks with my fingers and offering them up. About 90 > > > > minutes after we began, my blood-alcohol level was .11, > according > > > to > > > > the Intoxilyzer. The portable breath tester, however, pegged > me > > > > at .15. > > > > > > > > I tried to hide my smugness as I watched my co-workers fail > their > > > > tests, even though they weren't legally drunk. The woman who'd > > > > passed her tests while sober failed every one, even though her > > > blood- > > > > alcohol level was .053 on the Intoxilyzer and .06 on the > portable > > > > breath test. Then it was my turn. > > > > > > > > I aced the walk-and-turn. I failed the one-leg stand, but just > > > > barely. Chuck Laroue, a Bisbee private investigator, decreed > that > > > my > > > > toes weren't sufficiently pointed and that I'd swayed once. He > > > > allowed that it was a close call, but he was grading strictly, > as > > > an > > > > officer would at roadside. "They're looking to fail you," he > > > warned. > > > > Using a blank form from the Chandler Police Department, I > > reviewed > > > > the instructions officers must read to suspects before > > > administering > > > > the test: Nowhere does it say that a suspect's toes must be > > > pointed. > > > > > > > > In any case, my colleagues fared substantially worse than I, > even > > > > though they weren't over the legal limit. Not surprisingly, I > did > > > > horribly on the HGN exam. On the plus side, Laroue said none > of > > us > > > > smelled strongly of alcohol. > > > > > > > > The Intoxilyzer worked -- or didn't work, depending on your > > > > perspective -- exactly as billed. Bread registered a .05 when > > > Laroue > > > > put a slice in his mouth, but the machine, which is supposed > to > > > > signal the presence of alcohol in the mouth, rang an alarm. > The > > > > alarm remained silent, however, when he put Scope in his > mouth. > > > > According to the machine, this perfectly sober person had a > blood- > > > > alcohol level of .46, enough to kill most people. > > > > > > > > All this looked like convincing stuff for a jury, but no one > > wants > > > > their case to get that far. Better not to get pulled over in > the > > > > first place and better to fool the cops if you do. I came away > > > > convinced a drunkard really does have a chance. All I need is > a > > bit > > > > more practice. No more quarters -- instead of traditional > > drinking > > > > games, I'm switching to field sobriety tests: The last one > left > > > > standing on one leg wins. > > > > > > > > Party on. > > > > > > > > E-mail bruce.rushton@n..., or call 602-407-1715. > > > > > > > > Government is the great fiction, through > > > > which everybody endeavors to live at the > > > > expense of everybody else. > > > > > > > > Frederic Bastiat, French Economist > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > > > BUST Magazine: For > > > > Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests > > > > Subscribe at http://www.bust.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Community Web Page: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/community/lpaz-discuss > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > > BUST Magazine: For > > > Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests > > > Subscribe at http://www.bust.com