dont call me an ALP purist - i dont like them, alp (with out the ink),
nor the WLA (Western Libertarian Alliance) where all the old ALP click
members are in a self imposed exile. and from what i understand they
dont like me either. Ernie Hancock tells me David Dorn has been
spreading around lies about me which i have not been ever told
but are something to the effect that say i am a government snitch
which is a lie. and i suspect ernie hancock has been spreading
around the same lies about me but i cant prove it. i always though
people like eric anderson and other hated me because i was an atheist.
it wasnt until ernie told me that i found out they hated me because
people were spreading lies that i was a government snitch.

first i am probably a little bit more extreme then all the old alp
people. i am an anarchist and think we should get rid of government.
anybody that reads the libertarian platform with a brain should
come to the same conclusing. if taxes are stealing, which i argee
with then its impossible to have any goverment - hence the libertarian
platform indirectly comes out and supports anarchism, although it 
never actually says we should get rid of government.

last it seems like the old alp people are a bunch of stuck up
creeps not worth associating with.



From:  "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> 
Date:  Tue Sep 7, 2004  7:05 pm 
Subject:  Re: DUI laws - they are only for the revenue $$$$$$$$

David,
I don't disagree with anything you said here. Quite frankly, I was
expecting more "purists" to take a position similar to Mike's. I
think another way of stating what you said is that you can't violate
the NIFP (for the 99% who are innocent) when you try to defend
yourself from the 1% who are violating the NIFP.

I think there is still a problem with our position... if we define a
reckless behavior which has a X% chance of harming someone as a
crime, even when we can't point to victim (YET), then who gets to
decide the threshold? Should the maximum allowed X be 90% or .1%?
Within your example, how should the BAC threshold be set- who gets to
set it and what formula should they use?

Daniel



--- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "maywood2008" <gonzolawyer@c...>
wrote:
> Daniel,
>
> I agree with you in principle. But some explanation is necessary.
>
> Mike Ross typically will deny that an initiation of force has
> occurred if another person is not actually harmed. I.e., I've
> noticed he does not acknowledge that someone behaving recklessly is
> committing an assault on everyone who comes into contact with such a
> person. Because you cannot define any one person who has been
> victimized by a drunk driver who has not hit anyone YET, Mike would
> suggest that there is no victim.
>
> However, Mike is right to suggest that the law is seriously flawed.
>
> Every state in the country (correct me if I'm wrong on "every") uses
> a threshold of 0.08% BAC to determine whether someone is driving
> drunk. Congress mandated this by denying federal highway funds to
> any state which did not comply. So in Arizona, you can be arrested
> for .08 for DUI, and .15 is extreme DUI.
>
> Under Arizona law (ARS 28-1381 et seq), having BAC at .08 means
that
> you SHALL be presumed to be driving under the influence. This is
> ridiculous. Most experienced social drinkers of average weight (such
> as myself) hit BAC .08 around 2 drinks, yet I have never been even
> remotely intoxicated after only 2 drinks. Plus, the breathalyzers
> are notoriously inaccurate and regularly overreport the BAC (this is
> why cops would rather extract blood samples if possible), so you end
> up getting charged and having to hire Marc Victor to go to court for
> you and knock it down to reckless driving. The result is you're out
> a couple grand to the lawyer, a couple grand in court costs etc.,
> and you lose your driver's license for a certain period of time.
> This is patently unfair for a person who had two drinks and wasn't
> even remotely intoxicated.
>
> Yeah sure, the cops make you do the stupid human tricks before
> arresting you, but those are so incredibly subjective that a "law
> enforcement officer" (as opposed to a peace officer) can write down
> that you failed even though you passed with flying colors.
>
> If the DUI laws were reasonable and police officers enforced them
> reasonably, then I wouldn't have a problem and I certainly would not
> call DUI a victimless crime. But the way the laws are written &
> enforced right now, many who are charged with DUI are, in fact,
> truly innocent of any crime.
>
> David Euchner
>
>
>
> --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> wrote:
> > Mike,
> > So what about other similar actions?
> > Should you be able to shoot a gun into the air in a city or
> perhaps
> > shoot 1 in from someone's head without anyone having the right to
> > stop you (as long as you get lucky and don't hurt anyone)? What
> > about the right to self-defense? Doesn't the person who the drunk
> > driver might slam into or the person who the bullet might land
> > upon have the right to defend himself against these types of
> > actions? Doesn't he have the right to ask others (e.g, the state)
> > for help in his self-defense? If not, why not?
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, mike ross <getlibdis@b...>
> wrote:
> > > my view is it should not be a crime to drive drunk.
> > >
> > > my view is if you drive drunk and hurt someone you
> > > should be liable for the damages caused. and it
> > > should not be a crime.
> > >
> > > my view is that we paid for the public roads and
> > > should be able to use them if we are drunk or
> > > stoned.
> > >
> > > but thats my political view. i think driving
> > > while your drunk or stoned is a very stupid
> > > thing to do. and if you do it your just and
> > > accident waiting to happen.
> > >
> > > of course the best thing to do would be to
> > > get rid of all the government roads and
> > > privatize them all and let the owners of
> > > private property decide on if drunks
> > > should be allowed to use their roads.
> > > of course that aint going to happen soon.
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> > > Government is the great fiction, through
> > > which everybody endeavors to live at the
> > > expense of everybody else.
> > >
> > > Frederic Bastiat, French Economist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > > What are some possible LBT positions on drunk driving? We know
> it
> > > implies a high probability that someone will get hurt, but the
> > actual
> > > act of driving drunk doesn't directly harm anyone. To be
> consistent
> > > with NIFP, would the 'state' have to wait until after the
> accident
> > to
> > > punish the drunk driver?
> > >
> > > It also seems in a truly free market, the owner of the road
> might
> > not
> > > permit you onto his road if you are drunk. Your insurance
> company
> > > would probably drop your policy if you failed their sobriety
> tests.
> > >
> > > Are there other ways to think about this? Is there any way the
> > NIFP
> > > can be used to argue that the state should step in and protect
> the
> > > life and property of the other people on the road (from the
> drunk
> > > driver)?
> > >
> > > I guess I could ask this question about an analogous action;
say
> > > shooting your gun into the air in a city - as long as the
bullet
> > > doesn't happen to land on someone or someone's property who
> might
> > get
> > > harmed or mad, then should you be free to shoot?
> > >
> > > Thoughts anyone?
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > > "--- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, mike ross
<getlibdis@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > the new times dui article follows my comments.
> > > >
> > > > DUI busts are about revenue, not saving
> > > > lives or making the streets save.
> > > >
> > > > in the 60's legal limit was .15, then
> > > > it went to .10 and now its .08 in all
> > > > 50 states.
> > > >
> > > > i think when it went from .10 to .08
> > > > it was because the feds told the states
> > > > that if they lowered the limit they
> > > > would get more federal $$$$. i dont
> > > > know the story of why they went nationwide
> > > > from .15 to .10. maybe one of you has
> > > > that story. but i suspect it was about
> > > > $$$$.
> > > >
> > > > with the low limit of .08 i think the cops
> > > > and city government know that drunk
> > > > drivers are easy pickings to raise revenue
> > > > and they just follow the smell of money.
> > > >
> > > > the advice i use is always refuse to talk to
> > > > the cops and take the 5th. the new times seems
> > > > to disagree with that. and i disagree with them.
> > > >
> > > > the tests seem to be very hard to pass even for
> > > > sober people to take. so if a sober person can
> > > > fail them you should not even think about taking
> > > > a test which can give the cop probable cause
> > > > to arrest you with. some of percents follow.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > they learn in training that there's a 65 percent
> > > > probability that a driver who turns wide is drunk
> > > >
> > > > which means over a third of the people stopped
> > > > are NOT drunk
> > > >
> > > > The tests are easy to flub, particularly if you're
> > > > nervous or naturally uncoordinated. Sober people
> > > > often don't perform well.
> > > >
> > > > gee sober people cant pass them. which must
> > > > mean drunks cant pass them either. so if you
> > > > drunk why take the test and give the cop
> > > > probable cause to bust you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Horizontal gaze nystagmus, or HGN - 83 percent accuracy
> rate,
> > > >
> > > > one fifth of people who fail the test are NOT drunk.
> > > >
> > > > The one-leg stand - 65 percent accurate in identifying
> drunks.
> > > >
> > > > almost half the people who fail are not drunk
> > > >
> > > > The walk-and-turn - 68 percent accurate
> > > >
> > > > one third of the people who fail are not drunk
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/current/feature.html
> > > >
> > > > How to drink and drive and get away with it
> > > > - and just in time for Labor Day weekend
> > > > BY BRUCE RUSHTON
> > > > feedback@n...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Newton
> > > >
> > > > Looking like this might get you out of a field sobriety test.
> > > >
> > > > Cherry lollipop? Check.
> > > > Eye patch? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Bandage on knee? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Loaf of bread open on the passenger seat, next to a half-
empty
> > > > bottle of Scope? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Bag of groceries with disposable diapers on top? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Driver's license, registration and proof of insurance within
> easy
> > > > reach? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Cell phone turned off and put away? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Taillights, brake lights and turn signals working properly?
> > Check.
> > > >
> > > > You're now ready to head for the bar.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > You won't be taking a taxi home tonight. A cab ride might cost
> > only
> > > > $25, but you'd have to pay again tomorrow morning to retrieve
> > your
> > > > car. That money is better spent on booze.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, this is a gamble, but you're playing the odds. And with
> so
> > > > many ill-prepared drunks on the roads, the odds are in your
> > favor.
> > > >
> > > > If this was Vegas, you'd empty your bank account to make this
> > bet.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > No one likes drunk drivers. They kill. They maim. They destroy
> > > > lives.
> > > >
> > > > But what is drunk? During the Nixon administration, the legal
> > limit
> > > > in most states was .15. Then it became .10. In July, Delaware
> > > became
> > > > the 50th state to pass a .08 limit, which Arizona adopted six
> > years
> > > > ago.
> > > >
> > > > "This .08 thing is a load of crap and it pisses me off," says
> > > > Theodore Agnick, a Tempe defense attorney who specializes in
> DUI
> > > > cases. "We don't want -- and I'm sure you don't want --
> somebody
> > > > who's hammered who's going to run into a wall out there. But
> > > > these .08s? That's a regular person. Instead of patrolling at
> > night
> > > > looking for people who pose a risk to you and me, they're in
> > front
> > > > of a bar pulling people over right and left to generate
> numbers.
> > It
> > > > has nothing to do with making it safe."
> > > > Research backs Agnick. You may not be as good a driver at .08
> as
> > > you
> > > > are sober, but three academic studies have shown you're less
> > > > dangerous than someone who talks on a cell phone while
> driving.
> > > > There's scant evidence that .08 has lowered the highway death
> > toll,
> > > > which has remained essentially flat during the past decade.
> The
> > > > General Accounting Office said so in a study refuting claims
> by
> > the
> > > > National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. Even
> > Candace
> > > > Lightner, MADD founder who left the group in the 1980s, has
> told
> > > the
> > > > media that the focus should be on .15 or higher.
> > > >
> > > > In Arizona, you'll pay a higher fine for drunken driving than
> you
> > > > will for running over someone on a bicycle, even if the
> cyclist
> > > > dies. But the zealots aren't going away. Neither are local
> cops,
> > > who
> > > > earn as much as $120,000 a year busting drunks, then racking
> up
> > > > overtime in court and license revocation hearings. Just in
> time
> > for
> > > > the extension of bar hours to 2 a.m., the Phoenix Police
> > Department
> > > > has changed shifts for DUI officers, who arrested 3,425
> drivers
> > > > during the past year while working four days a week. Now,
> they're
> > > on
> > > > the road five days a week.
> > > >
> > > > It's easy to get pulled over. Police acknowledge that obeying
> > every
> > > > traffic law is virtually impossible. "Have you seen the state
> > > > traffic code? It's that thick," says Detective Rob Krautheim,
> > > > Chandler police spokesman. "I could probably get pulled over
> > > without
> > > > knowing I did anything wrong."
> > > >
> > > > So a drunk must learn to be careful out there. Hopping in
your
> > car,
> > > > driving well and hoping for the best won't work. Educate
> > yourself,
> > > > realize what lies in store if you're pulled over, and be
> > prepared.
> > > >
> > > > And cheers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > You've chosen your watering hole carefully. It's just a few
> > blocks
> > > > from a series of subdivisions that, navigated properly, will
> get
> > > you
> > > > most of the way home without venturing onto main drags that
> will
> > > > soon be crawling with drunks and cops looking to pull them
> over.
> > > > You've scouted the route, so you know which roads end up as
> cul-
> > de-
> > > > sacs and which take you toward your destination. At no point
> will
> > > > you be driving more than two blocks on a main thoroughfare.
> > > >
> > > > Sober and safe, you take the main roads to the bar. No
> guarantees
> > > > where the cops will be at closing time, but it's a good idea
> to
> > > take
> > > > note of where they are before your first cocktail.
> > > >
> > > > The bar parking lot is half-full when you arrive, but you
> > continue
> > > > on to a nearby supermarket that's even closer to the side
> > streets.
> > > > You've heard too many hard-luck tales from drunks busted by
> cops
> > > who
> > > > just happened to be outside the bar at closing time. Besides,
> the
> > > > walk back to your car will do you good.
> > > >
> > > > You note the time as you order your first drink. And it is a
> > drink,
> > > > not a beer or a glass of wine. Fermented beverages produce
the
> > > > strongest odor of alcohol. Briefly, you consider the merits
of
> > > Crown
> > > > Royal or Bombay, but you are disciplined.
> > > >
> > > > You're sticking with Absolut. It's the flavorings in booze
> that
> > > make
> > > > you smell like a distillery. Vodka, especially premium
brands,
> > > > provides the highest safety margin.
> > > >
> > > > You know from studying blood-alcohol charts that a person
your
> > size
> > > > should be able to have three drinks in the first hour without
> > going
> > > > over the legal limit. You also know the body burns off
alcohol
> > much
> > > > slower than it absorbs it -- approximately one drink per hour
> > will
> > > > disappear from your system. You do the math in your head as
> you
> > > take
> > > > your first sip. You plan on being here for three hours. The
> > charts
> > > > say you can have nine and still be comfortably below the .15
> > > > threshold that spells a mandatory 10 days in jail; there's
> always
> > a
> > > > chance you could lose this bet, so you should hedge a bit.
You
> > know
> > > > the charts are only a rough guide. Your maximum tonight is
> eight.
> > > > You ask the bartender to set you up a tab -- better to have
> two
> > > > people counting than one.
> > > >
> > > > You watch the baseball game, shoot pool with friends, flirt
> with
> > > the
> > > > barmaid. Just before the kitchen closes, you order a basket
of
> > > fries
> > > > to help sop up your final drinks and slow their journey into
> your
> > > > bloodstream. You also start drinking water. You don't want to
> > risk
> > > > the head-swimming effects of dehydration on top of an alcohol
> > buzz.
> > > > Every time you go to the rest room, you stand on one leg in
> the
> > > > stall after relieving yourself, gauging your ability to keep
> your
> > > > balance.
> > > >
> > > > Over at the dartboard is a group of shit-faced drunks.
They're
> > > loud,
> > > > singing along with the jukebox, spilling drinks and stumbling
> as
> > > > they walk from their table to the board. You don't know them,
> but
> > > > they are your best friends as closing time approaches. You
> will
> > > make
> > > > your escape just after they leave. If a cop is lurking
> outside,
> > > they
> > > > can be the ones who get arrested, not you.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, it is time to go.
> > > >
> > > > Instead of walking directly to your car, you go behind a
> > building --
> > >
> > > > not the bar, which cops may be watching -- and practice field
> > > > sobriety tests where no one can see you. This is the
evening's
> > > first
> > > > moment of truth. How well you do in these practice tests will
> > > > determine how you'll respond if a cop pulls you over, or
> whether
> > > > you'll even risk the drive home. You know these tests by
> heart,
> > > > having included them in your daily exercise regimen.
> > > > Even though you're legally drunk, you easily stand on one leg
> for
> > > 30
> > > > seconds and walk heel-to-toe in a straight line for nine
> steps.
> > > > Confidence buoyed, you head for your car.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > Once at your car, you put a bandage over one knee. If you do
> > poorly
> > > > on a sobriety test, your lawyer can blame it on an injured
> leg.
> > You
> > > > comb your hair and tuck in your shirt. A police officer will
> note
> > > > your appearance if he pulls you over, and disheveled is bad.
> > > >
> > > > You have your eye patch ready to put in place. You don't want
> an
> > > > officer examining your eyes, because nothing will prevent
> > > > involuntary reflexes that signal drunkenness. If you've been
> > > smoking
> > > > pot, start sucking on that lollipop -- a green or brown
tongue
> is
> > > > evidence of marijuana use, which is just as bad as drunken
> > driving
> > > > under Arizona law. Your bag of groceries in the back seat
will
> > > serve
> > > > as an alibi: "No, officer, I wasn't at a bar. I was just
> picking
> > up
> > > > a few things at the store."
> > > >
> > > > You fasten your seat belt and prepare for departure. Are your
> > > > headlights on? Treat the high-beam switch as if it's
> electrified.
> > > > Under no circumstances will you use it.
> > > >
> > > > With the cruise control set precisely at the speed limit, you
> > have
> > > > one less thing to worry about as you begin your journey. You
> will
> > > > signal every turn, even though the streets are empty, and
> > > > concentrate on keeping a straight line, which shouldn't be
too
> > > > difficult. You're not plastered -- if you are, you shouldn't
> be
> > > > behind the wheel -- but you're certainly above the legal
> limit.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, shit! A cop lights you up as soon as you turn onto
> Camelback
> > > > Road, a favorite hunting ground for Phoenix police. How could
> > this
> > > > be? Knowing that cops key on drivers who make wide turns --
> they
> > > > learn in training that there's a 65 percent probability that
a
> > > > driver who turns wide is drunk -- you turned as close as
> possible
> > > to
> > > > the edge of the roadway.
> > > >
> > > > But you didn't come to a complete stop before crossing the
> > > sidewalk,
> > > > as required by the state traffic code. Try to relax. The cop
> > isn't
> > > > going to automatically conclude you're drunk as he approaches
> > your
> > > > car. Smelling like booze doesn't mean your case is open and
> shut.
> > > >
> > > > The officer will take note of things that seem trivial. Did
> you
> > > stop
> > > > right away or did you continue for several blocks before
> > > > surrendering? Not stopping as soon as possible is a sign of
> > drunken
> > > > driving, according to the National Highway Transportation
> Safety
> > > > Administration.
> > > >
> > > > The officer will watch closely as you retrieve your license,
> > > > registration and insurance card. He's looking for you to
> fumble
> > > > around, maybe drop something, which is why you've put your
> > > paperwork
> > > > within easy reach. While you're getting your license, the
> officer
> > > > will ask you a question -- could be about the weather, could
> be
> > > > about just about anything, including whether you've had
> anything
> > to
> > > > drink. Don't be caught off guard. The theory is, drunks can't
> > focus
> > > > on two things at once, so if you can't respond to his query
> while
> > > > retrieving your papers, you may soon find yourself in
> handcuffs.
> > > >
> > > > At some point, he's going to ask how much you've had to
drink.
> > > > The "couple beers" answer isn't going to play. Some free
> > > > advice: "The minute the cop asks you if you've had anything
to
> > > > drink, at that point, he's gathering evidence against you,"
> says
> > Ed
> > > > Loss, a Phoenix DUI attorney. "Shut the fuck up."
> > > >
> > > > The officer will ask you to blow into a hand-held breath
> tester.
> > > Say
> > > > no. The results aren't admissible in court because hand-held
> > > testers
> > > > aren't considered reliable. But the cop isn't going to tell
> you
> > > > that. He's relying on you to either follow directions from a
> > police
> > > > officer, like the good citizen you are, or assume that you'll
> > > > automatically lose your license for a year if you refuse
> (which
> > is
> > > > true for tests required after the arrest is made). Blame your
> > > > recalcitrance on a distrust of technology. Ask the officer
how
> > that
> > > > doohickey works and whether you're required to submit. When
he
> > says
> > > > you're not, politely decline.
> > > >
> > > > The cop will ask you to perform some field sobriety tests. He
> > needs
> > > > enough evidence to make an arrest, and he may not have it
yet,
> > > > especially if you don't reek of alcohol and he stopped you
for
> > > > something minor like a broken taillight.
> > > >
> > > > The tests are easy to flub, particularly if you're nervous or
> > > > naturally uncoordinated. Sober people often don't perform
> well.
> > The
> > > > tests have one thing in common with driving: The more you do
> it,
> > > the
> > > > better you get. That's why intoxicated drivers aren't obvious
> on
> > > the
> > > > roadway, but completely fall apart when asked to stand on one
> leg
> > > or
> > > > do something else that they never do in real life.
> > > >
> > > > Too bad if you make a mistake. Given that practice improves
> > > > performance, the cops don't allow do-overs. Most defense
> lawyers
> > > say
> > > > you shouldn't do the tests, but declining can be awkward and
> look
> > > > suspicious, especially if you've just said no to a breath
> test.
> > So
> > > > you face a crucial decision: You can refuse and limit the
> > evidence
> > > > that can be used against you if you're arrested and take the
> case
> > > to
> > > > court. Or you can roll the dice, banking that you'll pass and
> > > > convince the officer that you're okay to drive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The federal government has certified just three sobriety
tests
> as
> > > > accurate in determining whether a person is intoxicated.
> > > > They include:
> > > >
> > > >  Horizontal gaze nystagmus, or HGN.
> > > >
> > > > This is the one where the officer puts a pen in front of your
> > face
> > > > and asks you to follow it with your eyes as he moves it from
> side
> > > to
> > > > side. He's looking for your eyeballs to jerk. With an 83
> percent
> > > > accuracy rate, this is the most accurate field sobriety test
> on
> > the
> > > > planet, and the police officer isn't going to care that the
> > jerking
> > > > occurs naturally in some people or that some substances,
> > including
> > > > nicotine, may exacerbate the jerking effect, as do some
> diseases,
> > > > including syphilis. Practice won't help, nor will a high
> > tolerance
> > > > to alcohol. It is, therefore, a test to be avoided.
> > > >
> > > > But how to say no? The test is not valid if a person has just
> one
> > > > eye available. Remember at the beginning of this story, where
> we
> > > > talked about having an eye patch ready? You might also tell
> the
> > > > officer about that pesky tic that causes your eyes to blink
> > > > involuntarily; blinking can be caused by anti-psychotic
drugs,
> > > > Tourette's syndrome and a host of other disorders. Or you can
> > keep
> > > > something handy to put into one of your eyes, say, mascara or
> a
> > > > cigarette ash, which forces blinks and also explains your
> > bloodshot
> > > > eyes.
> > > >
> > > >  The one-leg stand.
> > > >
> > > > An officer will ask you to stand on one leg, arms at your
> side,
> > and
> > > > count to 30 out loud. The feds say this test is 65 percent
> > accurate
> > > > in identifying drunks. However, it's not valid if a person is
> > more
> > > > than 50 pounds overweight. Nor should it be given if the
> person
> > has
> > > > a leg or back injury. Consider limping or groaning in pain as
> you
> > > > step out of the car. When the officer asks you if you have
any
> > > > injuries -- and he should, before administering the test --
> tell
> > > him
> > > > about that tumble you took from your bicycle yesterday.
> > > >
> > > >  The walk-and-turn.
> > > >
> > > > You will be asked to walk heel-toe in a straight line for
nine
> > > > steps, arms at your sides, then pivot and walk back to the
> > officer
> > > > in the same fashion. The walk-and-turn is 68 percent accurate
> in
> > > > pegging drunks. As with the one-leg stand, it isn't valid if
> > you're
> > > > fat or injured.
> > > >
> > > > If you decide to do the tests, listen carefully when the
> officer
> > > > gives the instructions. The officer will tell you to start
> when
> > he
> > > > wants you to begin. This part of the instructions will not be
> > > > emphasized, but it is crucial. You are allowed just one
> mistake.
> > > > Starting before being told to begin counts as that one
> mistake.
> > > Make
> > > > it and you have no margin for error.
> > > >
> > > > Figure out which sobriety tests you're best at and steer the
> cop
> > > > toward them. Police do have back-up tests; how else would
they
> be
> > > > able to test paraplegic motorists? A finger-dexterity test in
> > which
> > > > the suspected drunk sequentially touches fingertips to thumb
> is
> > > easy
> > > > to master. First touch your index finger to thumb, then
middle
> > > > finger, then ring, then pinkie, counting each touch out
> > loud: "One,
> > > > two, three, four." When you reach the end, touch the pinkie
> again
> > > > and do it in reverse order, this time counting
> backward: "Four,
> > > > three, two, one." Using the hand that's not holding your
> drink,
> > you
> > > > can practice all night long without anyone noticing.
> > > >
> > > > There's a risk to field sobriety tests even if you haven't
> been
> > > > drinking. If you don't do well and a breath test shows you
> have
> > > > little or no alcohol in your system, the police will look for
> > > drugs.
> > > > You'll be asked to undergo an examination by a so-called drug
> > > > recognition expert who's supposed to be able to tell whether
> > you're
> > > > high and, if so, what drug you're on.
> > > >
> > > > You're not required to submit to this examination, but you
can
> be
> > > > ordered to provide a urine sample. And, as any pot smoker
> who's
> > > > sweated a pee test knows, the test can come back positive
even
> if
> > > > you weren't stoned at the time you peed.
> > > >
> > > > Urine tests don't measure drugs. Rather, they measure
> > metabolites,
> > > > which are by-products produced as the body processes
> controlled
> > > > substances. In the case of marijuana, metabolites can linger
> as
> > > long
> > > > as 30 days after the last puff. Cocaine, heroin and
> > methamphetamine
> > > > metabolites disappear within three days.
> > > >
> > > > Under Arizona law, you're guilty of DUI if you have a
> metabolite
> > in
> > > > your system, even if you're not under the influence. "It's a
> > > > situation where if you've smoked pot in the last 30 days,
even
> if
> > > > you haven't in the last two weeks, you're still going to get
> the
> > > DUI
> > > > for that," says Daniel Jaffe, a Scottsdale DUI lawyer. "It
> really
> > > > happens. At any given time, I have a case like that."
> > > >
> > > > All right. You've really blown it. You weren't driving
> terribly,
> > > but
> > > > you flunked the field sobriety tests and got arrested. Maybe
> you
> > > > puked and peed your pants in the patrol car. Now it's time
for
> > the
> > > > most important test of all: the blood-alcohol test, which
will
> be
> > > > given at a police station or a van set up to process DUI
> > suspects.
> > > >
> > > > If you got busted in Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa, Tempe or
> > Scottsdale,
> > > > you picked the wrong town to drink and drive in. Police in
> these
> > > > cities are licensed phlebotomists, and they have their own
> blood
> > > > labs. A blood test is considered the most accurate way of
> > > > determining a person's blood-alcohol level. If, for some
> reason,
> > > > they take you to a hospital for the blood test, count your
> > > > blessings. A hospital won't draw blood if you don't sign a
> > > liability
> > > > waiver that says you won't sue anybody for any reason. In the
> > eyes
> > > > of the state, you haven't refused a test, so you won't lose
> your
> > > > license.
> > > >
> > > > If you got picked up by a state trooper or a Phoenix officer,
> > > you'll
> > > > be blowing into a machine called the Intoxilyzer 5000, which
> is a
> > > > defense attorney's delight.
> > > >
> > > > The machine has a 10 percent margin of error, so if it shows
> you
> > > > have a .08 blood-alcohol level, you may actually be below the
> > legal
> > > > limit. A jury might be interested in hearing that you'd just
> > eaten
> > > a
> > > > sandwich. Bread has been shown to inflate breath alcohol
> > readings,
> > > > as has mouthwash.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line is, police who use breath tests are doing you
> a
> > > > favor. A good DUI lawyer can convince a jury that the results
> are
> > > > wrong, especially if it's a borderline case.
> > > >
> > > > Refuse a breath test and you'll find yourself in deeper
> trouble.
> > > > Police will call the county jail, where a judge is on duty
> 24/7,
> > > and
> > > > get a search warrant to draw blood. If necessary, they'll
> strap
> > you
> > > > to a chair. They'll then have evidence that's tough to beat
in
> > > > court, and you'll lose your license for a year for refusing
> the
> > > > test.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > So, how much of this advice might actually work? I decided to
> get
> > > > drunk and find out.
> > > >
> > > > Not being cocky, I didn't get soused and hit the highway. I
> > called
> > > > Ed Loss, the DUI lawyer, who rounded up some experts with
> > > > Intoxilyzers and a portable breath tester to try the
theories.
> > Then
> > > > I persuaded three co-workers to give it a shot on a recent
> > Saturday
> > > > morning. Nothing like a drinking binge to start your day.
> > > >
> > > > I was interested in two things: Could I pass the field tests
> > while
> > > > shit-faced? And what would the breath machines say?
> > > >
> > > > With the Olympic Games as inspiration, I trained. But not too
> > hard,
> > > > and not too long. Just standing on one leg and walking heel-
> toe
> > > > during a few drinking bouts in the days leading up to the
main
> > > > event. I got pretty good. I found out that I was much better
> at
> > > > standing on my right leg than on my left, which was good to
> know,
> > > > given that the cops let you choose which leg to stand on.
> > > >
> > > > My colleagues didn't prepare at all. It was me against them:
> Who
> > > > would do the best on the tests?
> > > >
> > > > The initial results weren't encouraging. Stone sober, three
of
> > us,
> > > > including me, failed at least one of the sobriety tests.
> Having
> > > been
> > > > up late the night before, drinking, I figured I was just
> tired.
> > > That
> > > > was why I put my foot down during the one-leg stand. I did
not
> > > > despair. I started drinking.
> > > >
> > > > I gave my colleagues moderate pours of Absolut. I lost track
> of
> > how
> > > > much I drank, but it was a lot more than they did. I started
> with
> > a
> > > > healthy shot. Then a greyhound. Then another shot. Then more
> > > > greyhounds. While everyone else was in the living room or out
> by
> > > the
> > > > pool, I was sneaking drinks in the kitchen. And it showed. I
> was
> > > > stirring drinks with my fingers and offering them up. About
90
> > > > minutes after we began, my blood-alcohol level was .11,
> according
> > > to
> > > > the Intoxilyzer. The portable breath tester, however, pegged
> me
> > > > at .15.
> > > >
> > > > I tried to hide my smugness as I watched my co-workers fail
> their
> > > > tests, even though they weren't legally drunk. The woman
who'd
> > > > passed her tests while sober failed every one, even though
her
> > > blood-
> > > > alcohol level was .053 on the Intoxilyzer and .06 on the
> portable
> > > > breath test. Then it was my turn.
> > > >
> > > > I aced the walk-and-turn. I failed the one-leg stand, but
just
> > > > barely. Chuck Laroue, a Bisbee private investigator, decreed
> that
> > > my
> > > > toes weren't sufficiently pointed and that I'd swayed once.
He
> > > > allowed that it was a close call, but he was grading
strictly,
> as
> > > an
> > > > officer would at roadside. "They're looking to fail you," he
> > > warned.
> > > > Using a blank form from the Chandler Police Department, I
> > reviewed
> > > > the instructions officers must read to suspects before
> > > administering
> > > > the test: Nowhere does it say that a suspect's toes must be
> > > pointed.
> > > >
> > > > In any case, my colleagues fared substantially worse than I,
> even
> > > > though they weren't over the legal limit. Not surprisingly, I
> did
> > > > horribly on the HGN exam. On the plus side, Laroue said none
> of
> > us
> > > > smelled strongly of alcohol.
> > > >
> > > > The Intoxilyzer worked -- or didn't work, depending on your
> > > > perspective -- exactly as billed. Bread registered a .05 when
> > > Laroue
> > > > put a slice in his mouth, but the machine, which is supposed
> to
> > > > signal the presence of alcohol in the mouth, rang an alarm.
> The
> > > > alarm remained silent, however, when he put Scope in his
> mouth.
> > > > According to the machine, this perfectly sober person had a
> blood-
> > > > alcohol level of .46, enough to kill most people.
> > > >
> > > > All this looked like convincing stuff for a jury, but no one
> > wants
> > > > their case to get that far. Better not to get pulled over in
> the
> > > > first place and better to fool the cops if you do. I came
away
> > > > convinced a drunkard really does have a chance. All I need is
> a
> > bit
> > > > more practice. No more quarters -- instead of traditional
> > drinking
> > > > games, I'm switching to field sobriety tests: The last one
> left
> > > > standing on one leg wins.
> > > >
> > > > Party on.
> > > >
> > > > E-mail bruce.rushton@n..., or call 602-407-1715.
> > > >
> > > > Government is the great fiction, through
> > > > which everybody endeavors to live at the
> > > > expense of everybody else.
> > > >
> > > > Frederic Bastiat, French Economist
> > > >
> > > > _____________________________________________________________
> > > > BUST Magazine: For
> > > > Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests
> > > > Subscribe at http://www.bust.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Community Web Page:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/community/lpaz-discuss
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____________________________________________________________
> > > BUST Magazine: For
> > > Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests
> > > Subscribe at http://www.bust.com

 
From:  "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> 
Date:  Tue Sep 7, 2004  7:05 pm 
Subject:  Re: DUI laws - they are only for the revenue $$$$$$$$

 
ADVERTISEMENT
 
 
David,
I don't disagree with anything you said here. Quite frankly, I was
expecting more "purists" to take a position similar to Mike's. I
think another way of stating what you said is that you can't violate
the NIFP (for the 99% who are innocent) when you try to defend
yourself from the 1% who are violating the NIFP.

I think there is still a problem with our position... if we define a
reckless behavior which has a X% chance of harming someone as a
crime, even when we can't point to victim (YET), then who gets to
decide the threshold? Should the maximum allowed X be 90% or .1%?
Within your example, how should the BAC threshold be set- who gets to
set it and what formula should they use?

Daniel



--- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "maywood2008" <gonzolawyer@c...>
wrote:
> Daniel,
>
> I agree with you in principle. But some explanation is necessary.
>
> Mike Ross typically will deny that an initiation of force has
> occurred if another person is not actually harmed. I.e., I've
> noticed he does not acknowledge that someone behaving recklessly is
> committing an assault on everyone who comes into contact with such
a
> person. Because you cannot define any one person who has been
> victimized by a drunk driver who has not hit anyone YET, Mike would
> suggest that there is no victim.
>
> However, Mike is right to suggest that the law is seriously flawed.
>
> Every state in the country (correct me if I'm wrong on "every")
uses
> a threshold of 0.08% BAC to determine whether someone is driving
> drunk. Congress mandated this by denying federal highway funds to
> any state which did not comply. So in Arizona, you can be arrested
> for .08 for DUI, and .15 is extreme DUI.
>
> Under Arizona law (ARS 28-1381 et seq), having BAC at .08 means
that
> you SHALL be presumed to be driving under the influence. This is
> ridiculous. Most experienced social drinkers of average weight
(such
> as myself) hit BAC .08 around 2 drinks, yet I have never been even
> remotely intoxicated after only 2 drinks. Plus, the breathalyzers
> are notoriously inaccurate and regularly overreport the BAC (this
is
> why cops would rather extract blood samples if possible), so you
end
> up getting charged and having to hire Marc Victor to go to court
for
> you and knock it down to reckless driving. The result is you're out
> a couple grand to the lawyer, a couple grand in court costs etc.,
> and you lose your driver's license for a certain period of time.
> This is patently unfair for a person who had two drinks and wasn't
> even remotely intoxicated.
>
> Yeah sure, the cops make you do the stupid human tricks before
> arresting you, but those are so incredibly subjective that a "law
> enforcement officer" (as opposed to a peace officer) can write down
> that you failed even though you passed with flying colors.
>
> If the DUI laws were reasonable and police officers enforced them
> reasonably, then I wouldn't have a problem and I certainly would
not
> call DUI a victimless crime. But the way the laws are written &
> enforced right now, many who are charged with DUI are, in fact,
> truly innocent of any crime.
>
> David Euchner
>
>
>
> --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> wrote:
> > Mike,
> > So what about other similar actions?
> > Should you be able to shoot a gun into the air in a city or
> perhaps
> > shoot 1 in from someone's head without anyone having the right to
> > stop you (as long as you get lucky and don't hurt anyone)? What
> > about the right to self-defense? Doesn't the person who the
drunk
> > driver might slam into or the person who the bullet might land
> > upon have the right to defend himself against these types of
> > actions? Doesn't he have the right to ask others (e.g, the
state)
> > for help in his self-defense? If not, why not?
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > --- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, mike ross <getlibdis@b...>
> wrote:
> > > my view is it should not be a crime to drive drunk.
> > >
> > > my view is if you drive drunk and hurt someone you
> > > should be liable for the damages caused. and it
> > > should not be a crime.
> > >
> > > my view is that we paid for the public roads and
> > > should be able to use them if we are drunk or
> > > stoned.
> > >
> > > but thats my political view. i think driving
> > > while your drunk or stoned is a very stupid
> > > thing to do. and if you do it your just and
> > > accident waiting to happen.
> > >
> > > of course the best thing to do would be to
> > > get rid of all the government roads and
> > > privatize them all and let the owners of
> > > private property decide on if drunks
> > > should be allowed to use their roads.
> > > of course that aint going to happen soon.
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> > > Government is the great fiction, through
> > > which everybody endeavors to live at the
> > > expense of everybody else.
> > >
> > > Frederic Bastiat, French Economist
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "azlpguy" <uaguyaz@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > > What are some possible LBT positions on drunk driving? We know
> it
> > > implies a high probability that someone will get hurt, but the
> > actual
> > > act of driving drunk doesn't directly harm anyone. To be
> consistent
> > > with NIFP, would the 'state' have to wait until after the
> accident
> > to
> > > punish the drunk driver?
> > >
> > > It also seems in a truly free market, the owner of the road
> might
> > not
> > > permit you onto his road if you are drunk. Your insurance
> company
> > > would probably drop your policy if you failed their sobriety
> tests.
> > >
> > > Are there other ways to think about this? Is there any way the
> > NIFP
> > > can be used to argue that the state should step in and protect
> the
> > > life and property of the other people on the road (from the
> drunk
> > > driver)?
> > >
> > > I guess I could ask this question about an analogous action;
say
> > > shooting your gun into the air in a city - as long as the
bullet
> > > doesn't happen to land on someone or someone's property who
> might
> > get
> > > harmed or mad, then should you be free to shoot?
> > >
> > > Thoughts anyone?
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > >
> > > "--- In lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com, mike ross
<getlibdis@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > the new times dui article follows my comments.
> > > >
> > > > DUI busts are about revenue, not saving
> > > > lives or making the streets save.
> > > >
> > > > in the 60's legal limit was .15, then
> > > > it went to .10 and now its .08 in all
> > > > 50 states.
> > > >
> > > > i think when it went from .10 to .08
> > > > it was because the feds told the states
> > > > that if they lowered the limit they
> > > > would get more federal $$$$. i dont
> > > > know the story of why they went nationwide
> > > > from .15 to .10. maybe one of you has
> > > > that story. but i suspect it was about
> > > > $$$$.
> > > >
> > > > with the low limit of .08 i think the cops
> > > > and city government know that drunk
> > > > drivers are easy pickings to raise revenue
> > > > and they just follow the smell of money.
> > > >
> > > > the advice i use is always refuse to talk to
> > > > the cops and take the 5th. the new times seems
> > > > to disagree with that. and i disagree with them.
> > > >
> > > > the tests seem to be very hard to pass even for
> > > > sober people to take. so if a sober person can
> > > > fail them you should not even think about taking
> > > > a test which can give the cop probable cause
> > > > to arrest you with. some of percents follow.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > they learn in training that there's a 65 percent
> > > > probability that a driver who turns wide is drunk
> > > >
> > > > which means over a third of the people stopped
> > > > are NOT drunk
> > > >
> > > > The tests are easy to flub, particularly if you're
> > > > nervous or naturally uncoordinated. Sober people
> > > > often don't perform well.
> > > >
> > > > gee sober people cant pass them. which must
> > > > mean drunks cant pass them either. so if you
> > > > drunk why take the test and give the cop
> > > > probable cause to bust you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Horizontal gaze nystagmus, or HGN - 83 percent accuracy
> rate,
> > > >
> > > > one fifth of people who fail the test are NOT drunk.
> > > >
> > > > The one-leg stand - 65 percent accurate in identifying
> drunks.
> > > >
> > > > almost half the people who fail are not drunk
> > > >
> > > > The walk-and-turn - 68 percent accurate
> > > >
> > > > one third of the people who fail are not drunk
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/current/feature.html
> > > >
> > > > How to drink and drive and get away with it
> > > > - and just in time for Labor Day weekend
> > > > BY BRUCE RUSHTON
> > > > feedback@n...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Newton
> > > >
> > > > Looking like this might get you out of a field sobriety test.
> > > >
> > > > Cherry lollipop? Check.
> > > > Eye patch? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Bandage on knee? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Loaf of bread open on the passenger seat, next to a half-
empty
> > > > bottle of Scope? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Bag of groceries with disposable diapers on top? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Driver's license, registration and proof of insurance within
> easy
> > > > reach? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Cell phone turned off and put away? Check.
> > > >
> > > > Taillights, brake lights and turn signals working properly?
> > Check.
> > > >
> > > > You're now ready to head for the bar.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > You won't be taking a taxi home tonight. A cab ride might
cost
> > only
> > > > $25, but you'd have to pay again tomorrow morning to retrieve
> > your
> > > > car. That money is better spent on booze.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, this is a gamble, but you're playing the odds. And with
> so
> > > > many ill-prepared drunks on the roads, the odds are in your
> > favor.
> > > >
> > > > If this was Vegas, you'd empty your bank account to make this
> > bet.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > No one likes drunk drivers. They kill. They maim. They
destroy
> > > > lives.
> > > >
> > > > But what is drunk? During the Nixon administration, the legal
> > limit
> > > > in most states was .15. Then it became .10. In July, Delaware
> > > became
> > > > the 50th state to pass a .08 limit, which Arizona adopted six
> > years
> > > > ago.
> > > >
> > > > "This .08 thing is a load of crap and it pisses me off," says
> > > > Theodore Agnick, a Tempe defense attorney who specializes in
> DUI
> > > > cases. "We don't want -- and I'm sure you don't want --
> somebody
> > > > who's hammered who's going to run into a wall out there. But
> > > > these .08s? That's a regular person. Instead of patrolling at
> > night
> > > > looking for people who pose a risk to you and me, they're in
> > front
> > > > of a bar pulling people over right and left to generate
> numbers.
> > It
> > > > has nothing to do with making it safe."
> > > > Research backs Agnick. You may not be as good a driver at .08
> as
> > > you
> > > > are sober, but three academic studies have shown you're less
> > > > dangerous than someone who talks on a cell phone while
> driving.
> > > > There's scant evidence that .08 has lowered the highway death
> > toll,
> > > > which has remained essentially flat during the past decade.
> The
> > > > General Accounting Office said so in a study refuting claims
> by
> > the
> > > > National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. Even
> > Candace
> > > > Lightner, MADD founder who left the group in the 1980s, has
> told
> > > the
> > > > media that the focus should be on .15 or higher.
> > > >
> > > > In Arizona, you'll pay a higher fine for drunken driving than
> you
> > > > will for running over someone on a bicycle, even if the
> cyclist
> > > > dies. But the zealots aren't going away. Neither are local
> cops,
> > > who
> > > > earn as much as $120,000 a year busting drunks, then racking
> up
> > > > overtime in court and license revocation hearings. Just in
> time
> > for
> > > > the extension of bar hours to 2 a.m., the Phoenix Police
> > Department
> > > > has changed shifts for DUI officers, who arrested 3,425
> drivers
> > > > during the past year while working four days a week. Now,
> they're
> > > on
> > > > the road five days a week.
> > > >
> > > > It's easy to get pulled over. Police acknowledge that obeying
> > every
> > > > traffic law is virtually impossible. "Have you seen the state
> > > > traffic code? It's that thick," says Detective Rob Krautheim,
> > > > Chandler police spokesman. "I could probably get pulled over
> > > without
> > > > knowing I did anything wrong."
> > > >
> > > > So a drunk must learn to be careful out there. Hopping in
your
> > car,
> > > > driving well and hoping for the best won't work. Educate
> > yourself,
> > > > realize what lies in store if you're pulled over, and be
> > prepared.
> > > >
> > > > And cheers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > You've chosen your watering hole carefully. It's just a few
> > blocks
> > > > from a series of subdivisions that, navigated properly, will
> get
> > > you
> > > > most of the way home without venturing onto main drags that
> will
> > > > soon be crawling with drunks and cops looking to pull them
> over.
> > > > You've scouted the route, so you know which roads end up as
> cul-
> > de-
> > > > sacs and which take you toward your destination. At no point
> will
> > > > you be driving more than two blocks on a main thoroughfare.
> > > >
> > > > Sober and safe, you take the main roads to the bar. No
> guarantees
> > > > where the cops will be at closing time, but it's a good idea
> to
> > > take
> > > > note of where they are before your first cocktail.
> > > >
> > > > The bar parking lot is half-full when you arrive, but you
> > continue
> > > > on to a nearby supermarket that's even closer to the side
> > streets.
> > > > You've heard too many hard-luck tales from drunks busted by
> cops
> > > who
> > > > just happened to be outside the bar at closing time. Besides,
> the
> > > > walk back to your car will do you good.
> > > >
> > > > You note the time as you order your first drink. And it is a
> > drink,
> > > > not a beer or a glass of wine. Fermented beverages produce
the
> > > > strongest odor of alcohol. Briefly, you consider the merits
of
> > > Crown
> > > > Royal or Bombay, but you are disciplined.
> > > >
> > > > You're sticking with Absolut. It's the flavorings in booze
> that
> > > make
> > > > you smell like a distillery. Vodka, especially premium
brands,
> > > > provides the highest safety margin.
> > > >
> > > > You know from studying blood-alcohol charts that a person
your
> > size
> > > > should be able to have three drinks in the first hour without
> > going
> > > > over the legal limit. You also know the body burns off
alcohol
> > much
> > > > slower than it absorbs it -- approximately one drink per hour
> > will
> > > > disappear from your system. You do the math in your head as
> you
> > > take
> > > > your first sip. You plan on being here for three hours. The
> > charts
> > > > say you can have nine and still be comfortably below the .15
> > > > threshold that spells a mandatory 10 days in jail; there's
> always
> > a
> > > > chance you could lose this bet, so you should hedge a bit.
You
> > know
> > > > the charts are only a rough guide. Your maximum tonight is
> eight.
> > > > You ask the bartender to set you up a tab -- better to have
> two
> > > > people counting than one.
> > > >
> > > > You watch the baseball game, shoot pool with friends, flirt
> with
> > > the
> > > > barmaid. Just before the kitchen closes, you order a basket
of
> > > fries
> > > > to help sop up your final drinks and slow their journey into
> your
> > > > bloodstream. You also start drinking water. You don't want to
> > risk
> > > > the head-swimming effects of dehydration on top of an alcohol
> > buzz.
> > > > Every time you go to the rest room, you stand on one leg in
> the
> > > > stall after relieving yourself, gauging your ability to keep
> your
> > > > balance.
> > > >
> > > > Over at the dartboard is a group of shit-faced drunks.
They're
> > > loud,
> > > > singing along with the jukebox, spilling drinks and stumbling
> as
> > > > they walk from their table to the board. You don't know them,
> but
> > > > they are your best friends as closing time approaches. You
> will
> > > make
> > > > your escape just after they leave. If a cop is lurking
> outside,
> > > they
> > > > can be the ones who get arrested, not you.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, it is time to go.
> > > >
> > > > Instead of walking directly to your car, you go behind a
> > building --
> > >
> > > > not the bar, which cops may be watching -- and practice field
> > > > sobriety tests where no one can see you. This is the
evening's
> > > first
> > > > moment of truth. How well you do in these practice tests will
> > > > determine how you'll respond if a cop pulls you over, or
> whether
> > > > you'll even risk the drive home. You know these tests by
> heart,
> > > > having included them in your daily exercise regimen.
> > > > Even though you're legally drunk, you easily stand on one leg
> for
> > > 30
> > > > seconds and walk heel-to-toe in a straight line for nine
> steps.
> > > > Confidence buoyed, you head for your car.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > Once at your car, you put a bandage over one knee. If you do
> > poorly
> > > > on a sobriety test, your lawyer can blame it on an injured
> leg.
> > You
> > > > comb your hair and tuck in your shirt. A police officer will
> note
> > > > your appearance if he pulls you over, and disheveled is bad.
> > > >
> > > > You have your eye patch ready to put in place. You don't want
> an
> > > > officer examining your eyes, because nothing will prevent
> > > > involuntary reflexes that signal drunkenness. If you've been
> > > smoking
> > > > pot, start sucking on that lollipop -- a green or brown
tongue
> is
> > > > evidence of marijuana use, which is just as bad as drunken
> > driving
> > > > under Arizona law. Your bag of groceries in the back seat
will
> > > serve
> > > > as an alibi: "No, officer, I wasn't at a bar. I was just
> picking
> > up
> > > > a few things at the store."
> > > >
> > > > You fasten your seat belt and prepare for departure. Are your
> > > > headlights on? Treat the high-beam switch as if it's
> electrified.
> > > > Under no circumstances will you use it.
> > > >
> > > > With the cruise control set precisely at the speed limit, you
> > have
> > > > one less thing to worry about as you begin your journey. You
> will
> > > > signal every turn, even though the streets are empty, and
> > > > concentrate on keeping a straight line, which shouldn't be
too
> > > > difficult. You're not plastered -- if you are, you shouldn't
> be
> > > > behind the wheel -- but you're certainly above the legal
> limit.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, shit! A cop lights you up as soon as you turn onto
> Camelback
> > > > Road, a favorite hunting ground for Phoenix police. How could
> > this
> > > > be? Knowing that cops key on drivers who make wide turns --
> they
> > > > learn in training that there's a 65 percent probability that
a
> > > > driver who turns wide is drunk -- you turned as close as
> possible
> > > to
> > > > the edge of the roadway.
> > > >
> > > > But you didn't come to a complete stop before crossing the
> > > sidewalk,
> > > > as required by the state traffic code. Try to relax. The cop
> > isn't
> > > > going to automatically conclude you're drunk as he approaches
> > your
> > > > car. Smelling like booze doesn't mean your case is open and
> shut.
> > > >
> > > > The officer will take note of things that seem trivial. Did
> you
> > > stop
> > > > right away or did you continue for several blocks before
> > > > surrendering? Not stopping as soon as possible is a sign of
> > drunken
> > > > driving, according to the National Highway Transportation
> Safety
> > > > Administration.
> > > >
> > > > The officer will watch closely as you retrieve your license,
> > > > registration and insurance card. He's looking for you to
> fumble
> > > > around, maybe drop something, which is why you've put your
> > > paperwork
> > > > within easy reach. While you're getting your license, the
> officer
> > > > will ask you a question -- could be about the weather, could
> be
> > > > about just about anything, including whether you've had
> anything
> > to
> > > > drink. Don't be caught off guard. The theory is, drunks can't
> > focus
> > > > on two things at once, so if you can't respond to his query
> while
> > > > retrieving your papers, you may soon find yourself in
> handcuffs.
> > > >
> > > > At some point, he's going to ask how much you've had to
drink.
> > > > The "couple beers" answer isn't going to play. Some free
> > > > advice: "The minute the cop asks you if you've had anything
to
> > > > drink, at that point, he's gathering evidence against you,"
> says
> > Ed
> > > > Loss, a Phoenix DUI attorney. "Shut the fuck up."
> > > >
> > > > The officer will ask you to blow into a hand-held breath
> tester.
> > > Say
> > > > no. The results aren't admissible in court because hand-held
> > > testers
> > > > aren't considered reliable. But the cop isn't going to tell
> you
> > > > that. He's relying on you to either follow directions from a
> > police
> > > > officer, like the good citizen you are, or assume that you'll
> > > > automatically lose your license for a year if you refuse
> (which
> > is
> > > > true for tests required after the arrest is made). Blame your
> > > > recalcitrance on a distrust of technology. Ask the officer
how
> > that
> > > > doohickey works and whether you're required to submit. When
he
> > says
> > > > you're not, politely decline.
> > > >
> > > > The cop will ask you to perform some field sobriety tests. He
> > needs
> > > > enough evidence to make an arrest, and he may not have it
yet,
> > > > especially if you don't reek of alcohol and he stopped you
for
> > > > something minor like a broken taillight.
> > > >
> > > > The tests are easy to flub, particularly if you're nervous or
> > > > naturally uncoordinated. Sober people often don't perform
> well.
> > The
> > > > tests have one thing in common with driving: The more you do
> it,
> > > the
> > > > better you get. That's why intoxicated drivers aren't obvious
> on
> > > the
> > > > roadway, but completely fall apart when asked to stand on one
> leg
> > > or
> > > > do something else that they never do in real life.
> > > >
> > > > Too bad if you make a mistake. Given that practice improves
> > > > performance, the cops don't allow do-overs. Most defense
> lawyers
> > > say
> > > > you shouldn't do the tests, but declining can be awkward and
> look
> > > > suspicious, especially if you've just said no to a breath
> test.
> > So
> > > > you face a crucial decision: You can refuse and limit the
> > evidence
> > > > that can be used against you if you're arrested and take the
> case
> > > to
> > > > court. Or you can roll the dice, banking that you'll pass and
> > > > convince the officer that you're okay to drive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The federal government has certified just three sobriety
tests
> as
> > > > accurate in determining whether a person is intoxicated.
> > > > They include:
> > > >
> > > >  Horizontal gaze nystagmus, or HGN.
> > > >
> > > > This is the one where the officer puts a pen in front of your
> > face
> > > > and asks you to follow it with your eyes as he moves it from
> side
> > > to
> > > > side. He's looking for your eyeballs to jerk. With an 83
> percent
> > > > accuracy rate, this is the most accurate field sobriety test
> on
> > the
> > > > planet, and the police officer isn't going to care that the
> > jerking
> > > > occurs naturally in some people or that some substances,
> > including
> > > > nicotine, may exacerbate the jerking effect, as do some
> diseases,
> > > > including syphilis. Practice won't help, nor will a high
> > tolerance
> > > > to alcohol. It is, therefore, a test to be avoided.
> > > >
> > > > But how to say no? The test is not valid if a person has just
> one
> > > > eye available. Remember at the beginning of this story, where
> we
> > > > talked about having an eye patch ready? You might also tell
> the
> > > > officer about that pesky tic that causes your eyes to blink
> > > > involuntarily; blinking can be caused by anti-psychotic
drugs,
> > > > Tourette's syndrome and a host of other disorders. Or you can
> > keep
> > > > something handy to put into one of your eyes, say, mascara or
> a
> > > > cigarette ash, which forces blinks and also explains your
> > bloodshot
> > > > eyes.
> > > >
> > > >  The one-leg stand.
> > > >
> > > > An officer will ask you to stand on one leg, arms at your
> side,
> > and
> > > > count to 30 out loud. The feds say this test is 65 percent
> > accurate
> > > > in identifying drunks. However, it's not valid if a person is
> > more
> > > > than 50 pounds overweight. Nor should it be given if the
> person
> > has
> > > > a leg or back injury. Consider limping or groaning in pain as
> you
> > > > step out of the car. When the officer asks you if you have
any
> > > > injuries -- and he should, before administering the test --
> tell
> > > him
> > > > about that tumble you took from your bicycle yesterday.
> > > >
> > > >  The walk-and-turn.
> > > >
> > > > You will be asked to walk heel-toe in a straight line for
nine
> > > > steps, arms at your sides, then pivot and walk back to the
> > officer
> > > > in the same fashion. The walk-and-turn is 68 percent accurate
> in
> > > > pegging drunks. As with the one-leg stand, it isn't valid if
> > you're
> > > > fat or injured.
> > > >
> > > > If you decide to do the tests, listen carefully when the
> officer
> > > > gives the instructions. The officer will tell you to start
> when
> > he
> > > > wants you to begin. This part of the instructions will not be
> > > > emphasized, but it is crucial. You are allowed just one
> mistake.
> > > > Starting before being told to begin counts as that one
> mistake.
> > > Make
> > > > it and you have no margin for error.
> > > >
> > > > Figure out which sobriety tests you're best at and steer the
> cop
> > > > toward them. Police do have back-up tests; how else would
they
> be
> > > > able to test paraplegic motorists? A finger-dexterity test in
> > which
> > > > the suspected drunk sequentially touches fingertips to thumb
> is
> > > easy
> > > > to master. First touch your index finger to thumb, then
middle
> > > > finger, then ring, then pinkie, counting each touch out
> > loud: "One,
> > > > two, three, four." When you reach the end, touch the pinkie
> again
> > > > and do it in reverse order, this time counting
> backward: "Four,
> > > > three, two, one." Using the hand that's not holding your
> drink,
> > you
> > > > can practice all night long without anyone noticing.
> > > >
> > > > There's a risk to field sobriety tests even if you haven't
> been
> > > > drinking. If you don't do well and a breath test shows you
> have
> > > > little or no alcohol in your system, the police will look for
> > > drugs.
> > > > You'll be asked to undergo an examination by a so-called drug
> > > > recognition expert who's supposed to be able to tell whether
> > you're
> > > > high and, if so, what drug you're on.
> > > >
> > > > You're not required to submit to this examination, but you
can
> be
> > > > ordered to provide a urine sample. And, as any pot smoker
> who's
> > > > sweated a pee test knows, the test can come back positive
even
> if
> > > > you weren't stoned at the time you peed.
> > > >
> > > > Urine tests don't measure drugs. Rather, they measure
> > metabolites,
> > > > which are by-products produced as the body processes
> controlled
> > > > substances. In the case of marijuana, metabolites can linger
> as
> > > long
> > > > as 30 days after the last puff. Cocaine, heroin and
> > methamphetamine
> > > > metabolites disappear within three days.
> > > >
> > > > Under Arizona law, you're guilty of DUI if you have a
> metabolite
> > in
> > > > your system, even if you're not under the influence. "It's a
> > > > situation where if you've smoked pot in the last 30 days,
even
> if
> > > > you haven't in the last two weeks, you're still going to get
> the
> > > DUI
> > > > for that," says Daniel Jaffe, a Scottsdale DUI lawyer. "It
> really
> > > > happens. At any given time, I have a case like that."
> > > >
> > > > All right. You've really blown it. You weren't driving
> terribly,
> > > but
> > > > you flunked the field sobriety tests and got arrested. Maybe
> you
> > > > puked and peed your pants in the patrol car. Now it's time
for
> > the
> > > > most important test of all: the blood-alcohol test, which
will
> be
> > > > given at a police station or a van set up to process DUI
> > suspects.
> > > >
> > > > If you got busted in Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa, Tempe or
> > Scottsdale,
> > > > you picked the wrong town to drink and drive in. Police in
> these
> > > > cities are licensed phlebotomists, and they have their own
> blood
> > > > labs. A blood test is considered the most accurate way of
> > > > determining a person's blood-alcohol level. If, for some
> reason,
> > > > they take you to a hospital for the blood test, count your
> > > > blessings. A hospital won't draw blood if you don't sign a
> > > liability
> > > > waiver that says you won't sue anybody for any reason. In the
> > eyes
> > > > of the state, you haven't refused a test, so you won't lose
> your
> > > > license.
> > > >
> > > > If you got picked up by a state trooper or a Phoenix officer,
> > > you'll
> > > > be blowing into a machine called the Intoxilyzer 5000, which
> is a
> > > > defense attorney's delight.
> > > >
> > > > The machine has a 10 percent margin of error, so if it shows
> you
> > > > have a .08 blood-alcohol level, you may actually be below the
> > legal
> > > > limit. A jury might be interested in hearing that you'd just
> > eaten
> > > a
> > > > sandwich. Bread has been shown to inflate breath alcohol
> > readings,
> > > > as has mouthwash.
> > > >
> > > > The bottom line is, police who use breath tests are doing you
> a
> > > > favor. A good DUI lawyer can convince a jury that the results
> are
> > > > wrong, especially if it's a borderline case.
> > > >
> > > > Refuse a breath test and you'll find yourself in deeper
> trouble.
> > > > Police will call the county jail, where a judge is on duty
> 24/7,
> > > and
> > > > get a search warrant to draw blood. If necessary, they'll
> strap
> > you
> > > > to a chair. They'll then have evidence that's tough to beat
in
> > > > court, and you'll lose your license for a year for refusing
> the
> > > > test.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
-
> ---
> > --
> > > -
> > > > -----------
> > > >
> > > > So, how much of this advice might actually work? I decided to
> get
> > > > drunk and find out.
> > > >
> > > > Not being cocky, I didn't get soused and hit the highway. I
> > called
> > > > Ed Loss, the DUI lawyer, who rounded up some experts with
> > > > Intoxilyzers and a portable breath tester to try the
theories.
> > Then
> > > > I persuaded three co-workers to give it a shot on a recent
> > Saturday
> > > > morning. Nothing like a drinking binge to start your day.
> > > >
> > > > I was interested in two things: Could I pass the field tests
> > while
> > > > shit-faced? And what would the breath machines say?
> > > >
> > > > With the Olympic Games as inspiration, I trained. But not too
> > hard,
> > > > and not too long. Just standing on one leg and walking heel-
> toe
> > > > during a few drinking bouts in the days leading up to the
main
> > > > event. I got pretty good. I found out that I was much better
> at
> > > > standing on my right leg than on my left, which was good to
> know,
> > > > given that the cops let you choose which leg to stand on.
> > > >
> > > > My colleagues didn't prepare at all. It was me against them:
> Who
> > > > would do the best on the tests?
> > > >
> > > > The initial results weren't encouraging. Stone sober, three
of
> > us,
> > > > including me, failed at least one of the sobriety tests.
> Having
> > > been
> > > > up late the night before, drinking, I figured I was just
> tired.
> > > That
> > > > was why I put my foot down during the one-leg stand. I did
not
> > > > despair. I started drinking.
> > > >
> > > > I gave my colleagues moderate pours of Absolut. I lost track
> of
> > how
> > > > much I drank, but it was a lot more than they did. I started
> with
> > a
> > > > healthy shot. Then a greyhound. Then another shot. Then more
> > > > greyhounds. While everyone else was in the living room or out
> by
> > > the
> > > > pool, I was sneaking drinks in the kitchen. And it showed. I
> was
> > > > stirring drinks with my fingers and offering them up. About
90
> > > > minutes after we began, my blood-alcohol level was .11,
> according
> > > to
> > > > the Intoxilyzer. The portable breath tester, however, pegged
> me
> > > > at .15.
> > > >
> > > > I tried to hide my smugness as I watched my co-workers fail
> their
> > > > tests, even though they weren't legally drunk. The woman
who'd
> > > > passed her tests while sober failed every one, even though
her
> > > blood-
> > > > alcohol level was .053 on the Intoxilyzer and .06 on the
> portable
> > > > breath test. Then it was my turn.
> > > >
> > > > I aced the walk-and-turn. I failed the one-leg stand, but
just
> > > > barely. Chuck Laroue, a Bisbee private investigator, decreed
> that
> > > my
> > > > toes weren't sufficiently pointed and that I'd swayed once.
He
> > > > allowed that it was a close call, but he was grading
strictly,
> as
> > > an
> > > > officer would at roadside. "They're looking to fail you," he
> > > warned.
> > > > Using a blank form from the Chandler Police Department, I
> > reviewed
> > > > the instructions officers must read to suspects before
> > > administering
> > > > the test: Nowhere does it say that a suspect's toes must be
> > > pointed.
> > > >
> > > > In any case, my colleagues fared substantially worse than I,
> even
> > > > though they weren't over the legal limit. Not surprisingly, I
> did
> > > > horribly on the HGN exam. On the plus side, Laroue said none
> of
> > us
> > > > smelled strongly of alcohol.
> > > >
> > > > The Intoxilyzer worked -- or didn't work, depending on your
> > > > perspective -- exactly as billed. Bread registered a .05 when
> > > Laroue
> > > > put a slice in his mouth, but the machine, which is supposed
> to
> > > > signal the presence of alcohol in the mouth, rang an alarm.
> The
> > > > alarm remained silent, however, when he put Scope in his
> mouth.
> > > > According to the machine, this perfectly sober person had a
> blood-
> > > > alcohol level of .46, enough to kill most people.
> > > >
> > > > All this looked like convincing stuff for a jury, but no one
> > wants
> > > > their case to get that far. Better not to get pulled over in
> the
> > > > first place and better to fool the cops if you do. I came
away
> > > > convinced a drunkard really does have a chance. All I need is
> a
> > bit
> > > > more practice. No more quarters -- instead of traditional
> > drinking
> > > > games, I'm switching to field sobriety tests: The last one
> left
> > > > standing on one leg wins.
> > > >
> > > > Party on.
> > > >
> > > > E-mail bruce.rushton@n..., or call 602-407-1715.
> > > >
> > > > Government is the great fiction, through
> > > > which everybody endeavors to live at the
> > > > expense of everybody else.
> > > >
> > > > Frederic Bastiat, French Economist
> > > >
> > > > _____________________________________________________________
> > > > BUST Magazine: For
> > > > Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests
> > > > Subscribe at http://www.bust.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Community Web Page:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/community/lpaz-discuss
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____________________________________________________________
> > > BUST Magazine: For
> > > Women with Something to Get Off Their Chests
> > > Subscribe at http://www.bust.com

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