Some Background to Carey's Story:
On the 17th of August,
2003, a short article appeared in the local newspaper, the Times
Picayune, in which the following image appeared. The image is of four
former veterans who all had one thing in common. They were all "ball
turret gunners" on B-17's at different times during the war. An
earlier article that ran on 8th September, 2002 featured a "Picture
of the Past' and the crew of a B-17 bomber standing in front of a
bomber. In that picture, was the gentleman on the left in the photo
below -- Leonard
J. "Mickey" Hurley.
This short article led
to Mickey being contacted by Carey Mavor and from that phone call,
the four men eventually got together for lunch one day to "reminisce"
about the days when each of them squeezed into the small ball that
sits snugly under a B-17 Flying Fortress.
Each man had his own
story to tell.
Below is the story of
the second man in the group -- standing next to Mickey Hurley who is
Carey Mavor.
His story is quite
interesting and entertaining!
Staff Photo by
Eliot Kamentz (The Times Picayune)
Mickey Hurley,
Carey Mavor, Joe Elliot and Irvin Kennedy meet for the first time
during a lunch this month at Ye Olde College Inn. All New Orleans
area residents, they were ball turret gunners for B-17 Flying
fortresses during World War II.
Read the story at:
WWII
Gunners Reminisce
Mickey Hurley, Carey
Mavor, Joe Elliot and Irvin Kennedy meet for the first time during a
lunch this month at Ye Olde College Inn. All New Orleans area
residents, they were ball turret gunners for B-17 Flying fortresses
during World War II.
On September 30th, this
World War II buff was invited over to share the hospitality of the
home of Carey Mavor and to conduct an interview with regards to his
flying career.
My host, Carey allowed
me the privilege of sitting down with him for a couple of hours to
talk about Carey's World War II experiences.
The day was a gorgeous
early fall morning, crystal blue skies, and as airmen would say, CAVU
[Clear Above - Visibility Unlimited] -- a perfect day for flying,
pleasure flying, that is!
On Sunday morning, we
had met at the local airport, Lakefront Airport, to view a B-17G,
called the "Aluminum Overcast" which was touring the country to help
teach folks about just what fellows such as Carey, Joe and Mickey had
done back 50+ years ago in a much different time.
At the airport, my
wife, Sue and I met with Mickey Hurley, Carey Mavor and Joe Elliot
who were all ball turret gunners pictured in the photo
above.
During that short
meeting, we talked briefly about the experiences that these men had
had aboard planes such as the one that we were looking at. Viewing
the plane from many different angles, and touching items that these
men had touched many years ago helped to bring a flood of memories to
the men that I had the good fortune of spending a few hours with. We
examined the ball turret in detail and that Carey, Mickey and Joe
were instrumental in educating me in some of the workings of the
place that they had once called "their home" back in the war
years.
I wanted to see if I
could get a feel as to what these wonderful men, who went up in
machines such as the B-17, might have experienced -- and felt. It was
almost impossible to really get a true feel of their experiences --
but crawling (and I do mean crawling) around one of these big birds
gives one a respect for the men and the planes that took them to
war.
The B-17 is a huge
flying machine -- at least from the outside. Once you climb up into
the nose of the bomber -- through the nose escape hatch -- you get a
much different impression. I could not help but sense the feeling
that this plane was indeed quite compact and cramped for it's nine
(earlier -- there were 10) crew members. Each location in the bomber
was compact/efficient -- almost claustrophobic.
Gazing through the nose
bubble, I was offered a spectacular view (if only in my case, a
panoramic view of Lakefront Airport and it's runway
environment).
Also here, was the
workstation for the bombardier and the navigator. These two men had
some of the best views -- if they had the time to look. Thinking
about this location on the big bomber, you could easily get a mental
picture of these two crew members at their work stations -- and to
the stark reality of their exposure to enemy fire.
The bombardier, sitting
on his stool [in the nose] usually had the task of guiding the bomber
during its last few minutes over the target -- then dropping the bomb
load. This was the most dangerous part of any mission. At this point,
under the control of the bombardier, the plane must fly straight and
level -- lining up on the target thousands of feet below. This is
where the flak gunners below really pour on the flak -- the big plane
at its most exposed! Before and after the bombs are dropped, from the
"G" model on, the bombardier had an additional duty of firing the
chin turret mounted under the nose. The controls could be pivoted
down directly to the front of his position.He could fire on attacking
aircraft approaching from the front of the bomber. The chin turret
was added because it was found (the hard way) that this was one
location that did not have adequate coverage from attacking aircraft.
There were two 50 cal. machine guns located in the nose, on each side
of the fuselage. The bombardier and navigator would operate
these...but, prior to the "G" model, nothing directly to the
front.
One can only imagine,
the view and the danger inherent to this position on the B-17. A
head-on attacking enemy plane could cause havoc with but a few lucky
hits and the bombardier would be the first crew member to be in the
direct line of fire.
The addition of the
twin 50 cal. machine gun chin turret at least gave the bombardier a
chance to fire back at an enemy plane attacking directly from the
front.
To the rear of the
bombardier, sat the navigator at his small work station. Besides
having the job of keeping the bomber on course, he also had access to
a small dome in the top of the cabin to take navigational readings
(at night, the stars) and also would man one or more of the 50 cal.
machine guns in the nose. There is a story from one such navigator
that would also make for some interesting reading. Should you care to
read his story, you may do so at Joseph
Gilinsky, B-17
navigator.
In his story, Joe
mentions about a flak hit that struck the nose, left [port] side, and
low taking out a portion of the plexiglass. A fragment then caught
Joe [navigator] directly in his right temple knocking him
unconscious. Another fragment penetrated the bulkhead directly to the
rear of the compartment, tearing into the flight crew cabin,
penetrating the cabin and rebounding off of the instrument console
above the 2nd pilot's head. The 2nd pilot, Lloyd
Conklin was then struck in the
head by the spent force of this piece of shrapnel which severely
stunned him. The the fragment of metal dropped directly into his lap.
The force of the shrapnel was not sufficient to break the skin, so
Lloyd Conklin, the 2nd pilot was not awarded a Purple Heart for his
"head injury". He but received a nasty headache and a small memento
that he possesses to this day.
To reach the remainder
of the big bomber, one had to literally crawl on his knees under the
instrument panel and through a crawl space into the pilot's crew
cabin. Here you could stand and were afforded an excellent view from
the cockpit windows both in front and to either side of the 1st pilot
and second pilot's position. Behind the flight crew station was an
upper turret position which normally held twin 50 cal. machine
guns... instrumental in the big bomber's defense. These were normally
manned by the flight engineer who was also station there to monitor
the flight instruments and gauges.
The next part was the
tricky part, for here you entered the bomb bay via a small walkway
[catwalk] -- only wide enough for one foot in front of the other.
This led into the next section of the bomber.
One can almost imagine
the bomb bay doors open and the racks of bombs being pickled away at
today's target far below. The view from here at altitude could more
than likely induce vertigo even in a stout hearted
individual.
Once traversing the
bomb bay, you now entered the engineer/radio operator cabin. Here you
would view the radio equipment and equipment to monitor the power
plants as well as an overhead skylight. An additional duty was to
manually switch fuel tanks with the switches being located near the
floor of the compartment. He would first switch from the wing tip
tanks, to the next set of tanks inboard and so on.
You then stepped down,
through another bulkhead, into the waist section of the B-17,
skirting the ball turret with its massive supporting structure. These
structures allowed for the free movement of the ball as well as
supplied both ammunition and oxygen for the man cocooned
within.
Slightly rearward of
the ball turret were the two main positions normally manned by the
waist gunner(s). These waist positions carried a single 50 cal.
machine gun mounted on each side of the fuselage. The windows
commanded a wide view of the sky -- enabling the gunners to fire
their weapons within a large cone away from the big bomber.
Originally this position was manned by two gunners...but, as the
plane continued through its many modifications, it was decided that
only one gunner was "required" here. He now became responsible for
both sides of the aircraft and both guns. I could only imagine, as to
just what would happen if fighters were attacking from BOTH sides
simultaneously? I can also imaging the fellow sitting at a desk back
in the Pentagon, sipping his cup of coffee in air conditioned
comfort, saying that it would be much more economical and beneficial
to have only one gunner here.
Right!
From here, you could
travel towards the rear of the plane (if you crawled on your hands
and knees) to where the tail gunner kneeled at his twin 50 cal.
machine guns. A lonely spot indeed!
He accessed his
position via a small escape hatch position right behind his firing
rear gunner location. He of course had no real protection in this
position and was probably the most venerable of all crew members. I
am sure that if you asked ANY crew member, you would get the same
answer from each man -- "My position was the most dangerous" and if
you had manned that position, you would have probably had felt the
same.
I would have thought
that the ball turret to be the position that was the most dangerous
on this big bomber.
Getting a closer look
at the ball, one can easily see that it is indeed claustrophobic! You
are literally crunched up into a position where your knees are almost
in your face and would stay in this position for upwards to 8 hours
at a time! With all the equipment stowed in the ball, along with your
electrically heated flying suit, your harness (parachute was within
arm's reach in the waist cabin) and the twin 50 cal. guns next to
your head, the equipment needed to run the ball (no sophisticated
computer electronics here) and ammunition belts coming into the ball
from two sides along with a gun sight directly in front of your face,
you were pretty much crammed into the ball. No wonder the man in the
ball was usually a fairly small man.
You did command a
spectacular view -- if you had the time and inclination to look out.
You froze almost the entire time you were in the ball (and the
remainder of the aircraft for that matter) and you were pretty much
isolated from the remainder of the crew -- most of the flight. If you
were prone to claustrophobia, then you would really be in a heck of a
mess in the ball.
I did find out that the
ball did have some protection for the man in the ball. The ball had
armor plating at certain locations including the backside where he
rested his back. The large circular view port directly in front of
the gunner was approximately two inches thick! made of laminated
glass and plastic. This was a bit of a surprise to me.
It was stated in a book
shown to me that the ball turret was actually the safest position on
the B-17 as well as the B-24!
Viewing this and the
other aspects of this flying fortress for the first time ever, I
could come to realize that even as big as this plane was, there was a
sense that the men who crewed this bomber were going off to war in a
death trap. It would be easy to assume that if the big plane were hit
-- and begin its plummet down to earth, it would be almost impossible
for some of the crew to exit the stricken plane.
That thought sent
chills down my spine.
Considering this and
the other factors, this plane did indeed bring many a crew home even
following horrific punishment in battle. It was no wonder that the
plane became affectionately known as the "Flying
Fortress".
I tip my hat to the
brave men who went up in these machines.
These men were indeed,
among America's Greatest Generation!
Carey's Memories of World War
II:
Arriving at Carey's
home near the New Orleans lakefront, we settled in to begin our
visit. This interview took place on the patio of his ranch style
home. A light northerly breeze was blowing, birds were chirping in
the trees above and Carey was in the mood to talk about those days so
very long ago.
Carey W. Mavor -- His Ball Turret
Memories
The early fall day was
gorgeous, bright and clear (as they say in flying --
CAVU).
We sat outside under
the trees for about 2 hours. Carey had brought laid out some books
with tagged pages [post it notes] to illustrate some interesting
items about his experiences.
He also had a few
photos that we discussed in detail.
Sitting down, I turned
on my recorder and the interview began with Carey telling me about a
photograph of his B-17 crew. He flew with this crew for 20 of his 25
total missions.
Carey produced an old
photograph of his crew. It was a typical photograph of a bunch of
very young men -- the youngest was but 19 -- the oldest was only 23.
They were standing or kneeling in front of a B-17.
The plane pictured was
named the "Arkansas
Ramblers" and Carey commented,
"That was not our plane, though." One of the guys in the photo was
Carey and we sort of played a little game and I took a few guess as
to which one was Carey. Three tries later, I finally got it right.
Carey was the second fellow on the bottom row, kneeling, from the
left.
I asked Carey that I
had heard that you had to be at least a sergeant to fly as a crew
member. (Some of the men clearly had corporal stripes.) He replied,
"I didn't get to make staff sergeant 'til I was overseas". When asked
about the plane behind the men, he replied that that was in Oklahoma
before they went overseas and it wasn't their plane. It was just for
show, to take the pictures of the crews before going
overseas.
The men in the
photograph were identified on the rear of the photograph. We briefly
talked about the crew members.
The notations on the
rear of the crew photograph identified the men as
follows:
1st
Lt. Roy O. Miles - Pilot - New York - (Puerto Rico) - 22
2nd Lt. Allmon - Co Pilot - Ohio - 23
F. O. Whitley - Navigator - Texas (Corpus Christi) - 19
1st Lt. Burns - Bombardier - Ala. (Bham) - 22
Cpl. H. I. Carey - Waist Gunner - Hawaii - 21
Cpl. (ME) - Ball Turret Gunner - Guess Where? - 20
S/Sgt. (Chuck) Theriault - Engineer - Conn. (Hartford) - 21
P. T. Cote - Radio Operator - Boston, Mass. - 22
Cpl. Duhon - Tail Gunner - Lake Arthur, LA. - 21
Notations include the date:
November 1944, Ardmore, Okla, O. T. U.
A stamp on the photograph indicates Fonville Studio, Ardmore, Okla.,
Nov 28, 1944.
While looking over the
photograph, Carey passed on to me a bit of sobering information:
"There's only [the] navigator, I mean co-pilot [Howard Allmon],
navigator [Homer O. Whitley], engineer [Chuck Theriot] and myself
[Carey W. Mavor] -- the four of us, that's all. The rest of them are
all dead."
Carey told me that he
was able to keep in touch with two former members of his crew through
the 452nd Bomb Group Association.
I was curious about the
photo of Carey and his crew as to how and when the crew photos were
taken. He replied, "Well, we left from Oklahoma. They have to take a
picture of you -- of your group -- 'cause you may not come back. And
then they take a 'missing in action photograph' of just you and they
send [it] to your local newspaper."
Carey then produced a
print depicting two B-17s being attacked by a pair of Me-262's. A
notation on the rear stated:
March 19, 1945
452nd Bomb Group
Raid on Oil Refinery
at "Zwickau" Germany
B17 Fortresses were bounced by 28
Me-262 Jets.
When asked if this was
his group, Carey replied, "That's me,...That's my unit...I was on
that raid." He then said, "That's the German jet that flies 600 miles
an hour, and the turret is not even designed to track them that fast.
Unless you pick it up at a great distance -- when he comes through
there -- you can't -- even a hand held one [50 cal.] in the window --
you only got about, not even a second -- when he comes through."
Asked if the painting
was identified as a particular unit, Carey responded, "We got a Unit
Citation for that -- for that raid." He did indicate that the
aircraft shown -- being from the 452nd Bomb Group was not identified
in the painting and probably represented one of the planes in general
-- for there was no identifiable markings on the plane being
attacked.
Referring to the time
that Carey served in the European Theater, he jokingly referred to
his friend, Mickey Hurley, -- Mickey said, 'Oh, you were over there
after the war was over.'
Carey then said,
"...Let me tell you what else. This was only one thing. They were
ramming us...and it wasn't a suicide [plane] like a Kamikaze. They
would aim a plane -- their fighter plane -- at us and bail out. On
the last raid we went on, one of our wing men got hit in the radio
room and both of them went down." Asking if he had actually seen any
of this, he replied, "Yeah, oh yeah, yeah." He indicated that the
'ramming mission' was one that the Me 262's had also bounced them
on.
Carey recalls that they
were attacked by Me 262's on two separate missions. He said "This one
[indicating the painting] and another one...the first time we saw
them, we didn't know what the hell they were -- because nobody ever
told us." He mentioned that they were never told because,
"...evidently they didn't want to 'scare us' with anything. So when
we came back, and we found out, and we asked them what were those and
then they told us what they were."
Looking at the
painting, I inquired about the B-17 tail marking. He told me that the
squadron marking was a "box L" ..."some of them called it a "square
L" but most everyone called it a "box L". "...we had a radio code
name of DRY WINE FOX" which stayed with them on all
missions.
I then asked Carey
about some background information.
Looking back, Carey
told me that he had joined the service back in July 1943. He joined
up in New Orleans and went up to Camp Beauregard which was a
reception center, located in Alexandria. "Most of the guys that were
up there, were from around the country...a lot of them couldn't read
or write. They had a school up there and you could go to school. When
I went in I was a typist clerk for the railroad. I graduated from
high school and they didn't know exactly what to do with me. So I
worked on the clothing line. When the recruits came in, I gave out
shoes, I gave out pants. Finally, I guess after about a month -- I
spent about 3 months in the reception center -- when somebody looked
at my MOS -- that's your number of what you did in civilian life.
They saw 'typist-clerk'."
"So, they made me make
the dog tags on the machine. It was a big ole' machine and you would
press it down -- and you would have to hit it hard [making clunking
sounds]." When asked if the dog tags were similar to what they are
now, Carey replied, "All the ones I saw had that little 'googy' in
it...you know what that was for?" Both of us had heard that the
little 'googy' was for placing between the front teeth of a soldier
killed in action as well as we both had heard that it was also for
placing the tag in the proper location inside the stamping
machine....used to hold the tag in place.
"One morning", said
Carey, "after everybody assembles, the guy introduces a captain from
the air force and the captain gets up there and speaks and says, 'I'd
like to know if any of you all would like to volunteer for the air
force.' About fifteen of us put up our hand. So he said, 'Well
tomorrow, we'll send a truck around to pick you up and we will give
you a mental test over at Alexandria Army Air base. Sure enough, we
went over there and we took a mental test. It narrowed it down to
about ten of us. I passed it. And then after that, they said they
were going to take us to Alexandria Army Hospital and give you a
physical. That narrowed it down to five of us."
"Most of the, it seemed
like this, they harped on depth perception and that is what washed
out five of the guys -- doing good -- everything, but depth
perception. About three days later, we find out we were accepted.
When the sergeant in the reception center found out we were accepted,
he put us all on KP -- permanent KP. We worked KP for four days."
"When the truck came
over and got us, they took us up to Shepherd Field in Texas, right
outside of Wichita Falls. That's where we took basic - basic
training."
"After basic training,
they sent us to Kansas State Teachers' College in Hayes, Kansas for
cadet training."
|
|
|
Carey
Mavor, standing by an A/3 in cadet training in Hays, Kansas.
Image taken in March 1944. Unit: 83rd C.T.D. (Image courtesy
of Carey W. Mavor)
|
Carey
Mavor standing by an A/3 at the Hammond, Louisiana Air Show
on 30 May 1987. (Image courtesy of Carey W. Mavor)
|
"We finished that, and
we were going to go to preflight down in San Diego. We got on the
train and we were heading down there -- it was a good ride -- and we
were two or there days I believe. And then, the train stops -- backs
up, and everybody wakes up and wants to know what we were backing up
for. It stops again and we see all kind of trucks on the side there
and we asked one of the guys where we were and what were we doing
here? What is this? because we weren't due into San Diego until the
next day."
He said, 'Well, for the
convenience of the government, we don't need any more pilots --
officers -- we need gunners and you are all now at Las Vegas Army Air
Base Gunnery School -- all of us, the whole class.'
"We were go and train
[as an officer] either as pilot, navigator or bombardier."
"That's were I was
introduced to the ball turret [Las Vegas]... nobody had a
choice."
I then asked Carey as
to how they would train him in the use of the ball turret. He
replied, "They had a long building, and it had different rooms in
[it] and each room had a ball turret mounted on a platform --
elevated platform -- I guess, about eight [or] nine feet in the air.
It had a railing around it. You walked up the steps with the
instructor and he opens the hatch and everything. He talks to you and
you look at what's inside the turret. Then he gets in and he shows
you how it works. Then he closes the door and you can see the turret
turn around and go down -- just like it does on the airplane. Then he
comes back up and he opens the door and gets out. He then says, 'You
want to try it?' So I get in and I -- no parachute and nothing like
that -- just regular clothes. It seemed -- comfortable (a chuckle
here). So we got used to working the handles and making it go back
and around and everything. But it didn't have any guns in it. It had
a dummy housing in it -- a piece of wood shaped like a machine
gun."
"So that was just one
day. The second day, we moved down to another room and they have it
outfitted a little bit more -- a sight in it this time. The next one
we moved down -- they have a sight in it -- they have the oxygen hook
up - they have the radio control and the have real guns in it -- but,
no ammunition."
"Then on the last one
-- this takes weeks and weeks and weeks. When you are not in the
turret, they are sending you to school on how to take apart a 50 cal.
machine gun and put it back together again and to find out if
something is wrong with your gun, you would know what to do with it.
The last part of that thing was -- they had a great big table and
they put all of the parts on the table and they would blindfold you.
They had one part in there that didn't work -- didn't fit -- it was
bent or something like that -- too short or too long or something
like that. You had to find it blindfolded by feel. Because that was
the only way you could do [it] in the plane -- actually is feel
everything. After you got to know what the gun was, then you went
down to the last turret room and got into it with a gun, with regular
clothes -- heavy clothes on and everything."
"After that you went
on, what they called a skeet range. They shoot skeet and they got a
zig-zag course as you ride in the back of a pick-up truck in a cage
standing up with a shotgun. They have a guy, and ever so often, these
skeet release things. You are supposed to lead and turn around and
catch it, and everything, while the truck is moving. It was to give
you a little feeling of how to lead in advance of a skeet. They
graded you on that."
"That was another thing
that was really horrible, because I was not used to shooting a
shotgun. I had my arm by the second day, with that thing kicking --
Aw man I was figuring on using the other side. Anyhow, I think that I
wasn't the only one. It gave you a sense of how to lead two moving
targets."
Asked about how long
Carey was in basic training? "Basic training was about three months."
You went in in July? "July." July of '43? And then when you went to
gunnery school, how long was that? "That was in the summer of '44.
Because I remember it was hot as hell in Shephard Field when we got
there....we went to the college training detachment, to cadets, in
Kansas...that was six months...It was basic -- three months --
cadets, six months and then gunnery training, almost six months. Well
after they got you familiar with the turret, then you really go into
the B-17 in the turret and fly it...at Indian Springs. You fly it
first at ground targets. He flies real low -- maybe a hundred feet --
maybe 200 feet and they have targets on the ground spread out in
different ways. He does the same thing like the pick-up truck. In a
B-17. And you have waist gunners, tail gunners, ball gunners and top
turret gunners. But the top turret gunner -- the only time he can
shoot is when the plane is banking at the ground. That was at a place
called Indian Springs which was about 60 miles outside of Las Vegas.
That's close to where they tested the atomic bomb. [This was using]
live ammo. The targets on the ground was two poles and they had a
canvas between the two. You would shoot live ammo with color tips on
it. They could grade you on the color holes that you would make.
That's how everybody got graded...even on tow targets. When the
bullet went in -- the paint would stay and put a round mark on
it."
"Before we did that
really, they had a range where they had a little trolly car -- from
here to that little picket fence over there [pointing across the
street -- a distance of about 30 yards]...iron fence, and it had a
levee behind it or a mud mound. You had your 50 cal. mounted on a
post. As that thing went -- it went pretty good -- pretty fast -- you
would shoot at it. It was maybe 8 feet across and maybe six feet tall
on this little cart. That was the first time we had the paint markers
go in it. You could go after and the guys in back would bring it out
where your marks -- where you hit." When asked if he was pretty good
at it, Carey replied, " Well-- fair-- I didn't fail -- I didn't flunk
[a big laugh here]. Well I think most of us all did good -- because
we all had depth perception and we all had good eyesight and
everything. The instructors would tell you if you didn't hit the damn
thing, I am going to hit you, or something like that. They made you
really try hard."
|
|
Carey prefers this image to the one on the left -- because
he said that it shows that he actually had a head of hair
once!
|
|
Carey
Mavor's formal MIA photo taken at Lincoln, Nebraska in 1944.
Photos were taken to use in the newspaper in case the crew
was shot down and taken prisoner. (Photo courtesy of Carey
W. Mavor)
|
Carey
Mavor's formal MIA photo taken at Lincoln, Nebraska in 1944.
Photos were taken to use in the newspaper in case the crew
was shot down and taken prisoner. (Photo courtesy of Carey
W. Mavor)
|
"After that we went
into form a crew. From Vegas we left and went to Lincoln, Nebraska
and that's where we got our crew. After we were assigned to a crew,
then we flew bombing missions into the Gulf of Mexico with a brand
new B-17...from Nebraska, from Lincoln, Nebraska. Off of Galveston,
they had a range out there and they had a barge anchored -- a big
barge -- I guess maybe a hundred feet by fifty feet. It had a target
on it." Carey was asked about what kind of bombs dropped? A black
bomb, a black smoke bomb, a practice bomb. Something like that bomb
that was standing by that [referring to the gift booth at Lakefront
Airport during the 'Aluminum Overcast' visit]...filled with black
powder -- leaves a black mark on it." When asked if they carried live
ammunition...the response was..."No."
"That was the first
time we went on oxygen. All of the other training, we never had an
oxygen mask or nothing like that. We didn't know...and the
temperature was just shirt sleeve. I think we went into the Gulf
twice and we got up high enough where we had to have warm clothes on
and oxygen masks. After that I never knew what -- if we hit the barge
-- we hit close enough to it. I could see it from the ball."
"Then after that we
were assigned to a crew. They gave us a brand new plane and we left
from Lincoln, Nebraska and we flew up to Bangor, Maine at night in
the middle of winter. We landed at Bangor, Maine and we got snowed in
there for a week...spent Christmas and New Years in Bangor,
Maine...as a crew. The biggest thing we did there after the snow and
everything was to chip the ice off the plane. They had tarpaulins to
cover it, but you couldn't lift the tarpaulin.You had to chip the ice
off the tarpaulin to get it off the plane. This was in Bangor, Maine
and this is where I learned to ice skate."
"I've always heard the
expression -- I don't know if you want me to say this on tape --
sometimes these guys would talk about the dates they had back home,
or to date the girlfriend waiting for -- would describe what they
looked like. One guy said, 'Man, this guy had fixed me up with a date
with his sister and her eyes looked like two piss holes in the snow,'
and I didn't know what that meant. But when I left Bangor, Maine, I
did it in the snow and I looked at and, boy [lots of laughing
here]."
"We flew that same
plane from Bangor. From Bangor [we] went up to Reykjavik, Iceland.
[We took off at] hour intervals -- one plane at a time. In
Reykjavick, they had these search lights and they formed a cone --
way up -- maybe 10,000 feet up so you could see it from a distance.
What you did, you followed that cone down until you got to the
runway. That runway, everything was frozen, ice and everything and it
was always dark because it was in the winter. I think they had one
hour of sunlight...I slept through that one hour of sunlight. But,
the plane in front of us, when he landed, he couldn't stop. I don't
know whether his brakes went out -- and he cracked up into a mound --
part of a mountain, on the side. I don't know -- it didn't burn -- I
don't know what happened to the guys or anything like that. I think
that was the first time when we were doing that circling and coming
down that we actually had to use our deicers. It was kind of scary to
look out and see that ice on the wing and to find out if the deicers
worked. Yeah, they worked. Now we could see the ice peeling off of it
and that is what the pilot said, 'Everybody watch -- let me know what
you see...this is the first time I ever had an occasion to use the
deicers.' So, when it worked, all of it came off. It was designed
pretty good."
"From there, the next
morning, we took off the same intervals -- an hour, about an hour
apart and we flew to Scotland and we landed at Scotland -- turned the
plane over to the air force -- the army air force. They have to make
radio changes and swing the compass again and a couple of other minor
changes for European frequency and everything. We left the plane
there and we got on a train that brought us to Attleborough, the
little town of Attleborough [Norfolk], where the 452nd Bomb Group
was, in northern England. We were about 60 miles from London, and I
guess about 60 miles from the coast. The base's name was Deopham
Green. I didn't know where they got that name. I still don't know
where they got that name -- Deopham Green."
"When all the enlisted
men -- all of us over there -- we were all corporals." This was in
reference to a question that I had heard that all enlisted flying
crew were sergeants. The first thing that they did when we got over
there was to send us to armory school. We had to go with the 50 cal.
machine gun again. We had to go to different positions in the plane
-- familiarize ourselves with. But then after corporal, you made
sergeant. They had another school where [they] were orientating you
with German territories, city, states in England -- France. Get you
oriented. And then, before you make your first flight, they make you
staff sergeant. Somebody told me the reason they made you staff
sergeant was if you got shot down and you go to a prison camp that
they can't make you do physical labor. The other reason, I think, was
that they wasn't going to get any volunteers to go over there as a
corporal or a PFC -- flying and do that. They had to make some money
-- they had to have some incentative. I thought I was making pretty
good money. I was making sergeants pay, overseas pay, and flight pay.
I had enough money to send back home so that my Mother didn't lose
the house."
"I was 18, 19 years
old." When asked if he also received 'combat pay' -- he received
'flight pay' instead. "I was making close to $200 a month. My Daddy
died when I was 11 years old -- right after 1935 and we still had 15
years still to go on the house. The homesteads and the banks -- they
didn't want your house. After the Depression, they had more
houses...so the homestead said, 'Just pay the interest, and after
when you get on your feet again, you can pay the principle and the
interest.' But it made the term longer. So I sent home as much as I
could, because I liked New Orleans and I wanted to come to my same
house that I lived in."
"I had an older brother
and he went in right after -- about a month after Pearl Harbor. He
went into the Marines. He was in the Pacific and he saw it [combat]
from a desk, I believe. He was in the paymaster corps. I had a
younger brother -- that he didn't get into it 'til right after --
just before Japan surrendered. He got in the medical corps and they
sent him up to John Hopkins Hospital to work there. He since passed
away -- where he died -- he died at 66 years old, when he died. My
older brother -- he lives over in Waveland [Mississippi]. He has been
retired. He retired when he was 39 years old."
"I retired from Shell
[Oil Company] in 1985 and I had three sons that were still in school.
They were just about getting out of high school." Everybody said,
'Well how can you do that -- how can you do that?' "Well I had it
figured out. I could pay off my house which I did and all my college
tuition, I had. So my retirement -- then I went to work for exporting
speciality company for 14 years. So they were all graduated out of
college and got jobs and I'm sitting here with a house that I got to
go cut the grass and I gotta go paint and I got to fix up [lots of
chuckling]."
"I didn't get married
'till I was 41 and I worked with a lot of guys that married earlier
and everything and I could see the struggle that they were having
with kids in school and one salary and everything and I think that
was -- my brothers too. They were struggling. Well I said [that] I
don't want to struggle. I didn't get married 'til I was 41 years old.
I worked with my wife for ten years at Shell. She worked up there and
she was 35 -- I was 41."
"The enlisted men lived
in one quarters and officers in another quarters. When we got into
these quonset huts -- this is in the middle of winter, and I mean
cold, cold and they didn't have any firewood or coal. They had coke.
It was hard to get coke started in a little pot belly stove. When we
were gone all day on a mission -- nobody was there to keep the fire
going. Every time we would come back to a cold hut -- had to get a
fire going and everything."
Carey Mavor standing next to "Scrappy, Jr." You can clearly see
the tail number and group identification "box L" for the 452nd Bomb
Group.
(From personal collection of Carey W. Mavor.)
Carey
Mavor, painting the prop spinners red. He suggested
painting the spinners red to his pilot and got permission.
(From personal collection of Carey W. Mavor.)
The crew
of the "Scrappy, Jr." You can clearly see the tail number and
group identification "box L" for the 452nd Bomb Group. You can tell
by
the photo who the turret operators were: all the rest of the crew
are
six feet tall or over. (From personal collection of Carey W.
Mavor.)
Carey
Mavor in the ball. This was the position on the ground
where you loaded the 50 cal. machine guns prior to every mission.
A very tight fit, indeed. (From personal collection of Carey W.
Mavor.)
While thumbing through
some of the many books and other items spread across the table, Carey
came across a sheet of photos that he began to comment on. "That's
the number of the plane -- referring to the photo of him standing
near the rear of the 'Scrappy, Jr.'. That's me. When we had our
plane, our spinners were just aluminum color and most of the other
planes were red. So I told the ground crew guys -- Could you get me a
can of red paint and I will paint our spinners red. So that's what I
was doing -- I got a can of paint. That's me [pointing to another
photo] -- That's the crew [another photo] and that's Hank Carey
there, the top engineer, the pilot, I believe, co-pilot, tail gunner,
navigator, myself and the radio operator. You can see the two short
guys in the turret -- that's me and Chuck. When I sent this in back
in '95 I had forgotten Whitley's first name. His name is Homer -- I
called him Jim. Jim Duhon and Howard Alleman and Lloyd Coty was the
radio operator."
"The missions were --
they called us around 2 -- 2:30 in the morning. We would get up and
get dressed and go down to the mess hall and get breakfast. From
breakfast, we would go to a debriefing -- not debriefing, but
briefing to tell us where the target was and how far it was and the
bombs we were going to carry and everything. From there we would go
to -- I like to call it -- wardrobe -- where you would go get your
clothes on -- your heated suits, your heated boots, gloves and
everything. Then a truck would pick you up -- would bring you down to
the revetments where your bomber is. And the officers, the same thing
with them. So, we got there about the same time." Officers and
enlisted men had separate briefings. "After we got down there,
usually the ground crews were still loading the bombs and all our
machine guns were on a dolly -- a little trailer. You had to put your
own machine guns in your own turret and get them all set up
yourself."
"And then after all the
bombs were loaded, the gasoline checked and everything -- well, the
first thing we did, really, when we got down there -- we had to pull
the props through. The ground crews didn't do that -- they had enough
to do. It kind of woke us up a little bit. Each engine had to be
pulled through nine times -- nine cylinders." What was the reason for
this? "The radial engine -- the bottom cylinder has a tendancy
sitting over night -- the oil in the radial engine is right in the
middle and it has a tendency to seep down to that bottom cylinder.
And that is why you see when you start up a radial engine you see the
smoke come out. Well you can't do that -- you will bust the cylinder
if you don't get that oil out of there. So when you pull it through
slowly -- by hand -- it squashes the oil out through the exhaust
valve and the manifold gets full of oil and that is the smoke you see
coming out of that thing. If you start that thing up with the bottom
cylinder full of oil, you break the cylinder and it ruins the engine.
So we would pull those things through nine times on four engines. But
we had mostly the enlisted men did it -- officers didn't do it --
unless you fainted, something like that."
"Then we would get in
there -- the inside of the plane and that was one of my weak points,
I guess. They have what they call now, an APU -- auxiliary power unit
-- it was a putt-putt, in the back, right by the back door and it is
a two stroke engine -- it's gasoline and oil mixed. Most of the time
the exhaust is supposed to go outside the plane through a hole in the
side -- but it seemed every time we went down there, the exhaust was
inside the plane. Just smelling those exhaust fumes, seem like,
nauseated me -- I think some of the other guys too. So we would leave
the door opened. It didn't do any good until you started the engines
up when you got some air moving out. But anyhow between that being
nauseating with that smoke and knowing what your target was for the
day it seemed like it had a profound effect on my stomach. Right over
the revetments, they had a privy on each revetments. It happened not
to only one person on the crew, it happened -- but, the hard part
about it was you had to take off all that heated suit and everything
and get it down to where you could have your bowel movement. In a way
it was good, because if you were flying for another nine or ten hours
or maybe more, you didn't want to have a bowel movement 20,000 feet.
So it was a little advantage to go with empty bowels."
Did they have any
'facility' on the plane? "They had it just for urinating -- but it
wouldn't work at altitude, because it would freeze. So one time that
I had to do that -- behind the ball turret, on the floor, there is a
clean off hatch that when you turn the guns to the tail of the plane
your glass is right where you can open -- reach the hatch and wipe it
off if it gets oil on it. So you flip up the floor and it had some
little zerk fittings and flip up the metal because it was conformed
to the bottom and you could just stand there and urinate through the
hole in the floor. I had to do that a couple of times."
"I think on one mission
we had a B-24 that came up pretty close to us. Evidently, he was lost
or out of his formation [something like that]. So he tagged on to us.
He was kind of low, on the low side and I had never seen a B-24 close
up. I've seen them in formations -- way out and everything. So I
turned my turret and I was looking right at him to see what they
really looked like. And he got a direct hit and the only thing I saw
left from that plane was the engines and the wheels -- no propellers
-- just the engines -- no cowling -- no nothing -- just that corn cob
engine-like -- those and the wheels. Everything else was in little
scraps." What was he hit by? "Flak -- a direct hit. He was lower
because I was the only one who saw him. I'm in the turret looking at
him and I knew that they had nine or ten men on the plane and I
didn't have no control. I just -- spit up all over my sight. I had to
take my mask off and crunch it all out -- it all froze just that
quick. So I got it all piled up in a pile like you would pea gravel
or something like that and I put it under my seat so it wouldn't get
on my clothes after it thawed out. So when I came back and we landed
-- I knew it was down there and it was starting to thaw out. So first
thing I did -- opened the door, like we was sitting down and I was
half way in there and getting it out and putting it in a cardboard
cup. The waist gunner comes over and he stands there and he says,
'Ha, ha, ha' and he starts laughing at me, and he says, 'You got
airsick' and I never did get airsick before and it wasn't airsick
then. I said, 'No, I didn't get air sick'. He didn't see it -- nobody
saw it and I said, 'You didn't see that B-24 get hit.' He said, 'No,
you got air sick.' So I didn't say anything. I told the pilot -- he
didn't pay no attention to it."
"Well the same guy, the
waist gunner -- I guess, I skipped this part -- but maybe -- when we
were flying out of Lincoln, Nebraska down to the Gulf, everybody was
in position. In the turret, right above your head, right above the
sight, there is a little window that you can see into the plane, when
you've got your guns up at a certain angle. You can see into the
waist or you can turn around and see the radio operator [from] that
little bitty round window. When I see him [waist gunner], he is
crawling on the floor, like that, sneaking up to the turret and I
don't know what the hell he is doing and I could hear him. You see,
he was trained to get me out of that turret. They've got a set of
gears outside in the waist and he was going to disengage the power
gear and let the turret just swing. When I heard him with the crank
handles, putting the arm on there, I reached up and I have a set of
crank handles inside that I can do it too and I grabbed it before it
starts swinging and I could see him going back again. So afterward
when we got back I said -- what started it all of with was -- his
last name was the same as my first name. His name was Henry Carey --
mine was Carey Mavor and everybody started calling him Hank -- and he
didn't like that. I told him, 'Call me Mavor' -- told everybody else
to call me Mavor and call you Carey -- it didn't make any difference
to me. But everybody picked up on Hank. So he took it out on me -- he
would sit on my parachute while I was in the turret -- my chest pack
was in the waist -- he would use it as a pillow and if I tell him
anything, he said, 'Well, that's all right.' So I said, 'Sleep on
yours.'"
"Now the good parts
going to come. He did that TWICE in the States, here -- training and
I told the pilot about it and I figured that was going to be the end
of it. So I guess it was about the 3rd or 4th mission overseas and I
see him do the same thing -- coming, sneaking up to let the thing
swing on a mission. I grab the turret -- the cranks again. And so
after we landed, I told the pilot, 'Henry -- Hank is doing the same
thing again on a mission -- we were over France and over Belgium.'I
said, 'I don't appreciate it and I think he ought to be paying more
attention to what's going on out the window,' and I figured that
would do it. So, he did it again and I told the pilot again. The
pilot didn't do nothing."
"So one mission, we was
just getting into a flak area and I could see the flak and I was
watching it below us toward the tail. I could see three puffs --
poomp, poomp, poomp -- right in a row. It was down a little bit,
maybe about 5 o'clock. I am sitting here looking at it -- two --
three more puffs -- a little closer -- a little higher. I knew the
next three were going to be right on us. So I pressed my mike and
told the pilot, 'Pull it up -- pull it up' and we didn't move and I
said. 'PULL IT UP, PULL IT UP' -- I hollered louder, and sure enough,
man, he pulled it up. I don't know whether the co-pilot, or the pilot
pulled it up and -- poomp, poomp, poomp -- the last one, I could feel
it on my back -- on that back door. Just like throwing gravel on a
piece of tin. So when we landed, I am out there underneath the turret
looking under the plane -- a bunch of little holes. Do you know how a
hand grenade works? It's got all little jagged pieces -- well, that's
what flak is -- and my door was all pitted up. I am there looking at
[it] and the pilot crouched down, coming from the front -- got out --
he was pissed off, man and he hollered at me and he came back there
and said, 'Don't you ever holler out at my intercom again.' He didn't
ask me why or nothing. But, man I tell you, I was [showing a hand
motion across the throat] right to there. I figured that I had saved
the airplane, the crew and everything. So, the more I thought about
it, the more I thought about it, I said, 'I don't think I want to fly
with them anymore.' So I went to the Chaplin. This was late in the
evening, after debriefing and I told the Chaplin exactly what
happened and I told him I would like to fly with another crew that's
more professional than what this crew was. And sure enough, the next
mission, I was on another crew." So you got assigned to another crew?
"I didn't get assigned to another crew, I flew with different crews
the last five missions. I flew with different crews and man it made a
big difference. They had respect for me and I had respect for them. I
was flying more than my regular crew was -- so I was going to finish
before them -- which I did."
"The waist gunner told
me, 'As soon as you get the 25 missions, I am going to bust the hell
out of you.' And the crew knew it. So, sure enough, when I finished
the missions, he said, 'Let's go outside.' I really intended to kill
him -- I could have killed him -- that's how mad I was. I know how to
kill a man with my own hands. All the crew sitting up there, he
starts -- he starts swinging at me. Well, I'm no good at all at
boxing, but I could sure as hell wrestle him. I grabbed him around
the neck and I got a hold on him and we slipped into a ditch -- like
a drainage ditch -- no water in it or nothing like that. We were down
in there fighting and I lost my grip on him -- but he never did get
up. None of us really stood up. He started kicking -- I [was] kicking
and did everything and finally somebody said, 'OK, that's enough,
stop it.' We came out of there all beat up and everything and that
was the last time that night -- next morning I was on my way back to
the States."
I asked if he -- the
waist gunner -- had released the ball turret, as he had attempted to
do on more than one occasion, would the ball turret be out of action?
"Well, the ball would swing until the guns were hanging down -- the
heavy part. I have a set of gears -- cranks inside that I could crank
it if I lost power. But when he disengages my power from the
outside... When the bomber is on the ground, when you get down there
in the morning, the guns are aiming aft and the door is outside -- in
order to get in it, you have to have the guns down and the door up.
So you have to have a crank, to crank the turret where the guns are
aiming down and the door comes up. But after you do that, you
disengage your hand cranks and you put your power on. So, I thought
the radio operator knew how to do that -- but I came to find out, the
only guy who knew how to get me out of the turret was the waist
gunner who didn't like me. Just because of the name thing, he didn't
like me. He didn't like to be called Hank. I told him. I said, 'Call
me Mavor' -- but all the rest of the crew said to call him
Hank."
"He was studying to be
a lawyer -- he was from Hawaii. He wasn't much older than me -- I
think even a year older. But, I just think that he thought he was a
lawyer and I was -- somewhere else."
"That was the best
thing that happened to me. The Chaplain must probably had a good pull
with somebody or maybe they were used to that. Somebody asked me,
'Oh, I imagined some of the crews -- you know -- buddy, buddy -- all
for one another and all that.' I said, 'Maybe some of them were, not
me. It seems like everybody was looking out for themselves and a lot
of horseplay around.'"
I asked Carey about one
interview that I had had, in which one guy (a navigator) was required
to do 35 missions and he replied, "I don't know how long it took him
to do those missions -- but I know -- some guys broke down and I
think maybe I did 25 missions in 37 days. I was flying sometimes
seven days in a row. I only had one pass -- to go to London. What it
was, they knew what they were doing, by doing this and 25 missions,
if you did them and you got them all in in a short time, they knew
that Germany was going to fall. But they couldn't let up. They had to
hit 'em and hit 'em and hit 'em and that's the only thing that
brought Germany to their knees."
I suggested that the
weather might be a factor in the short time frame. "We were in the
middle of winter and it wasn't all that good. We bombed through
clouds. We used to pray for a 'under cast', we called it -- an
overcast on the ground, because Germany had radar on their anti
aircraft guns. If it was with the clouds -- they couldn't see you and
they had to rely on their radar and we had what they called
'chaff'...[aluminum foil] glued to a piece of paper that keeps it
from knotting up. Every plane had I guess, about a hundred pounds of
it in little packs and the radio operator had it right on his side a
little square hole and a chute and all he did was shove that stuff
out when we were getting into flak. They worked with an under cast.
Their [radar] screen just got white. But when they could see us --
that was it."
I asked Carey about the
incident of the downing of the B-24, if the plane had any markings,
etc that he might have recalled, Carey replied, "No -- 'cause they
asked me at debriefing I couldn't remember it."
"I was asking Mickey
[Leonard J. 'Mickey' Hurley -- a ball turret gunner with the 305th
Bomb Group] -- did you ever bring your bombs back. He said, 'No' and
I asked Joe [Joe Elliot, a ball turret gunner with the 452nd Bomb
Group] and he said, 'No.' I said, 'Well, we brought them back one
time. When we crossed the channel, just about when we are getting
ready to go, the weather forecast and everything -- we would have
never made it to the target. Weather all over Germany and the
continent was real bad up to 50,000 feet. Recon planes and
everything...Evidently somebody at the base or the 8th Air Force told
our group -- I don't know about the rest of them -- to bring the
bombs back. Don't drop them in the Channel or nothing like that.
Nobody had ever trained to land with a bomb load. Like Mickey says,
'It is just like taking off with a bomb load.' I said, 'It ain't --
you can come back with a flat tire and taking off and landing is not
the same thing.' When we found out, the pilot said, 'Secure
everything and be prepared to land -- we are going to land with the
bombs.' So, it worked out all right -- it was touch and go, it was
touch and go. You didn't know what was going to happen. Everybody was
used to coming back almost empty with fuel, no bombs and not much
ammunition. It made a big difference on the pilot and co-pilot to
land a loaded -- bomb load of plane...and we didn't get credit for
the mission. That's the worst part about it." I asked if the entire
squadron made it back OK? Carey replied, "Yea, I think one of them
ran off the runway. He didn't break anything." I inquired if the
bombs had been armed? He replied, "It doesn't have to armed -- if you
get enough concussion on it -- and the plane still had a lot of fuel
in it and if the fuel ignites, the arming business doesn't make a bit
of ----'"
I asked if this
was his group and about how many planes in the group? "We had four
squadrons, the 728th, the 729th, the 730th, and the 731st. -- I think
we were eight to ten -- [a helicopter flies overhead and drowns out
the conversation] I think we were about nine or ten planes per
squadron...so we are talking roughly 40 to 50 planes per group. I
don't know if it was worth it, but maybe it was -- we only did it
once."
Raid on
Oil Refinery at "Zwickau" Germany. March 19, 1945. B-17
Fortresses
were bounced by 28 Me-262 jets. Carey was on this raid when they were
jumped
by the German jet fighters. Not much you could do as a ball gunner --
for the turret
could not traverse fast enough to allow you to get off a shot at the
high speed jets.
(From personal collection of Carey W. Mavor.)
I asked what in Carey's
opinion was his most memorable mission? "This one...[pointing to the
painting of the B-17's and the Me-262's over Zwickau] --- March 19,
1945, the 452nd Bomb Group was headed for a target in Germany named
Zwickau and we got bounced by 28 Me 262 German jets known as
'Swallow' -- [a little ironic I told Carey, for that was the name of
the street that he lived on] -- That was what the Germans called it,
the Swallow -- we called them the Me 262. Nobody ever knew anything
about them. I think that they traveled at 600 miles an hour. When
they came in, they came in about 600 miles an hour and usually came
out the sun. So you can't track them too long if you can track them
at all with the turret. I know that my turret didn't turn fast
enough. If I picked them up at a distance -- maybe I could -- but
when they came through, the turret couldn't follow them. I couldn't
tell you I shoot you in the tail or I shoot you in the head. So
everybody was surprised and the worst part about it was [that] nobody
never briefed us on the Germans having jet fighters. So it was all
new to us. The beauty part about it was that they came in close
enough that you could look down and see the pilot -- you could see
him sitting there just like -- when he came through, you could see
him sitting there with his helmet on -- not a metal helmet -- a
leather helmet. So that was the second time that we saw them. The
first time we saw them, we did not know what they were. He just came
up and fitted right in with the bombers where nobody could shoot at
him and he would radio down to the gunners -- anti aircraft gunners
-- our airspeed and our altitude. Then he would take off. The first
one, when he came in, he radios down to the ground -- he comes in and
puts his flaps down and gets to our speed. That's when he can -- our
altitude and our airspeed. By the time we realized what it was and
try and get a gun on him, he just -- he's gone. [Asked about the time
frame of the attack on this mission?] Maybe a half of a minute --
less than that. They were gone. [Did they make multiple passes?] No,
they didn't have enough fuel to loiter around like a propeller plane.
[Did the group lose any planes?] I don't think -- we didn't lose any
-- we had damage -- but we didn't lose anyone. I think [that] they
only had minutes of full power. What I read and heard later on -- a
Mustang could chase him and run him out of fuel and then he would get
him on the ground."
I inquired about
altitude that this mission occurred. "Well, a lot of our missions
were at 18,000 to 20,000 feet. At times when we had to get over some
weather, we had to get up to -- I think the highest we ever got up to
was 40,000. Most probably [this mission was at 18,000 to 20,000.] I
inquired about the lack of bombers pictured in the painting? "Well,
like they always do, they pick on 'tail end charlie'. 'Tail end
charlie' is the worst one that they pick on when they came in from
the back is what evidentially they are doing here." Asked if the
German fighters would attack head on? "Oh yea, yea. When we took off
from England the sun is in our back -- so he wasn't coming out of the
sun. We were heading to Germany -- he was heading right into us. It
seemed like, when I remember it -- [the attack] was from the tail or
the head and from in the front."
"I came back with a
ball gunner on a ship -- we were leaving England and coming back to
the States. He had gotten hit right through the sight glass with a 20
mm cannon [shell]. The only thing that saved him was -- we had a 45
cal. on our chest -- for if we bailed out, at least we had a gun.
This thing -- after it came through the glass, it hit him in the
chest on that 45. [The 45 saved his life.] He had it with him. He
said, 'He was all bruised up -- they let him take it home.' He had it
in a box and he showed it to us. It was just like somebody had come
in there with a big ole' sledge hammer and just mashed it...20 mm. By
the time it got through that 2 inches of glass, it slowed it down a
little bit. [The glass is laminated.] [It is] close to about an inch
and three quarters...I know it is about that [showing measurement
between thumb and forefinger] thick. [In essence, it offered some
protection.] The back door, the seat, was 1/2 inch. Thats' what I
say, somebody was talking to me about being in a venerable position
-- according to everything taken after the war they found out that
people that got killed -- the ball turret turned out to be the safest
place. Asked -- I'll bet you didn't feel that way, though? "No, no --
as far as being shot up -- they've got some pictures in some of these
books to where they've been shot up pretty bad."
"I think that the guys
that got shot up the most where right in the nose there. When the
Germans found it that [it] was a blind spot -- before they put the
chin on it -- they had an 8 foot blind spot -- they could fly right
up with that. No, the chin turret, that was a blessing to have that
on there. The bombardier [fired the chin turret]. He had a control
and when he was using his bomb sight, he pushed the controls over on
the side. But it moves off of his bomb sight. That was a jammed up
place up there. When you've got somebody shooting at you, you are
glad to have something that you [can shoot back with]."
Asking if they had
sustained damage on that mission? The response was a relieved ---
"No. The only mission [that] we really sustained damage was that flak
-- the one I told you about, that flak." I asked if the pilot had
ever thanked him about his efforts in saving the plane and crew
during that mission and Carey replied, "No. He came through New
Orleans -- I was discharged, and everything, he came through -- he
and his wife came through New Orleans -- he called -- I was at work
and he spoke to my Mother and when he told my Mother who he was, my
Mother invited him to supper that evening. He and his wife, myself,
my younger brother -- and I wasn't going to bring it up. He didn't
bring it up and I wasn't going to bring it up. I was going to let my
Mother and brother think [that] everything was alright. But, he never
did -- even on the side."
"He was about a year
and half or two years older than me and he didn't see his 24th
birthday. He was from Puerto Rico and he spoke Spanish, fluent
Spanish. After the war, he was assigned to teach Spanish cadets how
to fly a B-25 and he got killed in a B-25 as an instructor [a
training accident]." Pointing to the crew photo, Carey pointed him
out to me and he was what was called the 1st pilot. Down the line, he
pointed to the 2nd pilot, the navigator, the bombardier -- pointing
to the bombardier, Carey said, "You see his face? He had the worst
case of gonorrhea and they let him go over with it and they figured
he would get rid of it in the hospital over there. But he didn't. We
had another bombardier fly with us -- a guy by the name of Rothenburg
and he came back on the second mission tour. He already had flew his
missions and he was coming back to another mission. But I think the
last time we saw him [Burns] when we were in Scotland. He was
supposed to go [to] the the hospital over there. He looks like he is
in pain there. [When asked as to why there was only nine guys in the
picture, Carey replied, Well, the waist gunner -- he works both guns
-- this is the guy that was supposed to get me out -- his name is
Hank Carey [pointing to group photo]."
Again referring to the
mission where the ball turret and bottom of the bomber was peppered
by a flak burst, Carey goes on to say, "We had a couple of other ones
with some holes in it -- that we didn't know how we got them.
[Referring to holes, etc.] We didn't know when we got them. You know,
these guns, dump out the empty cartridges -- the ball emptied out
empty cartridges -- the tail dumped out empty cartridges and all that
stuff is flying all around the place. So some of that stuff -- when
it hits -- [pointing to the B-17 in painting] the leading
edges."
Carey recalls one
mission in particular. They were returning from a mission and were
approaching the [English] Channel. At the time the Channel was full
of small ice bergs. The bail out bell began to ring. "We got our
chutes hooked up -- on standby, and kicked out the waist door. We
looked around -- no smoke -- no fire -- in formation and flying
level. So the radio operator returned to his compartment, opened the
door to the bomb bay and looked through to the cockpit. He saw the
pilot, the co-pilot and the engineer flying as normal. The radio
operator plugged [his intercom] back in and told the pilot [that] the
bail out bell was ringing. He [pilot] shut it off and said nothing
about it. To this day no one has said anything about it -- after we
landed."
|
|
Scrappy, Jr., B17G, 44-83264, 452nd Bomb
Group. The photo is of the 1st Pilot, Roy Miles pointing to
the plane's nose art named after his newborn son. (Photo:
Vintage Aircraft Nose Art, by Gary Valant,
pp. 26)
|
Asked as to what was
the name of the airplane that he flew most of his missions
on..."Scrappy, Jr. [The artwork was that
of] -- a baby in a diaper. We named it after the pilot. He was the
only guy that got married just before we went overseas, his wife had
a baby and he was a scrappy little baby. I think it's a little baby,
holding up a stork in a diaper. It was 'Scrappy, Jr.'"
B-17G with markings of the 452nd Bomb Group
From:
The Mighty
Eight by
Roger A. Freeman
Notation of the history of the B-17G, #44-83264:
44-83264 was delivered at Linclon on January 17,
1945. Dow Field Febuary 8, 1945; Assigned to 730th Bomb Squadron,
452nd Bomb Group at Deopham Green on
February 2, 1945. Returned to the U. S., Bradley on June 28, 1945.
Sth Plains January 7, 1945. RFC Kingman May 12, 1945. SCRAPPY,
JR.
(From
The B-17
Flying Fortress Story by Roger A. Freeman, pp. 302.)
Asked if Carey recalled
the number of the aircraft...he replied, "No, I would have to look it
up -- I have some photographs of it -- I'll have to find
'em."
When asked as to some
of the targets hit...Carey reply, "Well, I went to Berlin, four
times, Leipzig, Munich, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Peenemunde, Stetting."
Asked if the raid on Peenemunde was the original mission there, he
indicated that they had hit it before they went there. "They were
determined that if they built it back, they were going to hit it
again, and again. We bombed some -- I don't think -- it had a name --
it was like in the open forest -- it was clear -- you could see -- I
could see, it was trees and the forest there and I could see some
smoke coming up -- but no buildings -- no nothing -- everybody
dropped their bombs -- and what it was, was the Me 262 plant
underground in the forest. We hit it. I think the whole 8th Air Force
went in for it. It was what they called a maximum effort. Anything
that would fly, would fly that day."
When asked if Carey
recalled if his plane was camouflaged or all silver, he replied, "All
silver." When asked if he recalled the last five missions that he
flew, if he recalled the planes, he indicated that he did not -- "All
different crews -- all silver."
"I tell you what it was
-- all I was interested in was to get back from the mission and get
up to the 25. I didn't care what I did, what the plane was, or who
the people were as long as I got back and got that 25 missions -- got
that mission in. I don't even remember the people on the
crew."
Asked as to any other
mission details that come to mind -- "No, other than they were all
freezing cold and miserable and noisy -- especially in the back of
the plane, when you are behind the engines." Asked about normally
finishing up a mission until about 5 in the afternoon, Carey replied,
"Yeah, un huh." And about eating breakfast before going on a mission,
he replied, "We ate breakfast -- that was about the only meal I had."
I then asked Carey about the flight crews getting a nice meal upon
returning from their missions and received a startling reply -- "No
-- the mess hall was closed. They closed the mess hall and they
closed the showers. --- When we got back, now, this is the best part
about it -- when you got back and you got debriefed, and you turned
all you clothes in and everything -- the guy where you turned them
in, he had a case of scotch and little cups -- glasses, not cups. If
you want a shot of scotch, he would pour you a shot of scotch. I
always got behind, I am trying to think of one of our crew members
who didn't drink and I told him, 'I'll take yours' -- I always got a
double shot. That was the only thing that calmed you down and be able
to go to sleep." Again I brought up about their not opening the mess
hall -- Carey replied, "I'm glad they didn't -- I lost 30 lbs in
those 37 days -- but if I would have been eating, I would have had to
have bowel movements at altitude -- and everything. The only thing I
took on a mission was -- I tried taking an apple or an orange when I
first started -- they froze up solid. So we had little hard, sugar
candies and I put a whole bunch of those in my pocket just to have
something to taste and everything. You couldn't drink either -- it
would all freeze up." Eight, nine hours with nothing to eat or drink?
-- "No, nothing. Well, it's not like working in the heat. It's like
working in a refrigerator." You would get awfully thirsty, wouldn't
you? "No, no, it didn't dawn on me -- I don't recall ever being
thirsty."
Asked after your 25th
mission, how did you come home? "Well, I got sent -- rode the train
back to Scotland and I think that we spent about a week in Scotland
getting organized and everything and getting on a -- what we called
them -- a 'Victory Ship' [Liberty Ship]. I remember the name of the
ship. It was the 'Marine Robin' and it was converted to a hospital
ship. They had about 15 or 20 of us -- all air force -- all enlisted
men and we were assigned to a bunk right in the bow of the ship. The
rest of the ship, while we were waiting there for a week, was as
Patton [General George S. Patton] was going through Germany and
liberating these prison camps, these Americans that they had in these
prison camps were starved and that was what filled the rest of the
ship up. All of them -- we must have had hundreds. These guys were
thin -- skinny -- Aw, man. Some of them couldn't get out of the bed
until maybe after we were at sea for a week."
"It took us 15 days at
sea. We thought one day -- and we got up we could see land about five
days out. And man we said, 'That's not New York' and everybody's
looking and New York was on the opposite [direction] and what it was
that it took us five days to form into a convoy. We were running up
and down the coast of Scotland -- picking up ships -- and after five
days of doing that, then we headed across. We got caught in a storm
and knocked the hatch off -- in the bow and the water came down.
Before we landed in New York -- all those skinny PW's -- they were
expert crap shooters and they had gained a little bit of weight on
them. But they were still on a diet. Some of them, they were so funny
-- they were so hungry and everything, they couldn't feed them
everything they wanted. They had to watch them what they gave them
and you could see their stomach looked like a little ball, until they
got enough in their -----."
"When we heard that
Germany had surrendered, April -- the whatever -- we were in the
middle of the Atlantic. I know it was in April -- everybody
celebrated." So, you hit a storm en route? "Yes. The fifteen or
twenty airmen on the ship -- we had pulled what they called guard
duty at night and in the day time. We had two destroyers that
followed us in the back and on the side. One evening, this destroyer
pulls up alongside of us and they shoot a line over to us and
everybody is watching it to see what it is and they got a guy in a
litter hooked on there and they bring him over onto the hospital ship
and they brought him up to right where I was. There were about three
of that came over to see him -- to see what it was. There is this
navy guy -- he is laying in there and got a big grin on his face and
we asked him, 'What happened'. He said, 'Well, that storm we had the
other night, he says it knocked me off the deck and I broke my leg
hitting something.' So they put him on the hospital ship. He said,
'Boy, this is the happiest day of my life. I've been on that tin can
for two years.' That's all he had been doing -- going back and forth.
When they get to New York, they didn't give a leave or nothing.
[They] loaded them up with food and they would go back again. He
said, 'This was the best broken leg I ever had in my life.' He said,
'Man' -- he looked at that tin can -- 'I'm glad I'm off of it.' They
would go down, and sometime you wouldn't see them between the
waves."
Again bringing up the
time frame -- "Fifteen days" and where did they dock? "We docked in
New York, right past the Statue of Liberty. The only thing we had [in
response to a hero's type welcome for them returning] was that they
put the gang plank down -- I think it was the Red Cross was there and
they had BIG boxes of Hershey candy bars. Nobody had [had] any
chocolate in I don't know how long and the prisoners of war didn't
have it for years. Man they were giving out this -- and the guys were
eating chocolate -- I guess Hershey donated it. If you had Hershey
bars over there in Europe or somewhere -- you could have swapped that
for anything. But that's what I remember, coming down and they had
these two ladies -- Red Cross people sitting there -- and they had
that box sitting there and handing them out. That's when I knew I was
in the States -- back home."
"They put us on a train
and we went to Camp Shelby, Louisiana -- not too far. Then from Camp
Shelby, I think we -- they fed us there in the mess hall and we had a
big humbug in the mess hall there. Camp Shelby was beautiful -- we
went in and sat down at the table and they had all these white
waiters in there -- white aprons on and white shirts -- white pants
-- white shoes -- all healthy looking guys. One guy found out -- who
were these guys waiting on us -- German prisoners of war. One guy
took up his cup and said, 'You bastards' [throwing the cup] and they
had a big fight -- once we found out. Well, they had other guys --
wasn't only us there -- other people there and man they brought the
MP's in there and they couldn't do nothing about it. All they had to
do was separate us. These guys were starved and these guys [Germans]
had everything. I don't blame them -- if we had had a gun, we would
have shot them."
"I came back and I had
two weeks leave. I got orders to report Maxwell Army Air Base in
Alabama right out of Montgomery -- because the Japanese war was still
going on in the Pacific. So being a typist clerk I got assigned to
the office. My main job was to write out hardship discharges --
application for hardship discharges. It was a B-29 base. I knew when
I was there, the war in the Pacific kept on going I was going to go
train on B-29's. The army and everybody knew about this time about
this atomic bomb -- but me. Boy, when they dropped that bomb -- Japan
was next. I said, 'Man, I don't swim that far in that big ocean out
there.' I was so happy. That's where I got discharged from. It took
'til November. They were getting us out on points. You had so many
points, this month -- everybody with that many points got discharged
and then lower, and lower and lower. Well, I got discharged when I
was still 20 years old."
|
|
Close up
of the side mounted Barbette. (Photo: Gunner, An
Illustrated History of World War II Aircraft Turrets and Gun
Positions, by Donald Nijboer. Photographs by Dan
Patterson. pp. 128)
|
Looking at a couple of
books, Carey showed me a photo of a gun pod on a German Me 410. He
goes on to say, "[About the pod] It turns down and it turns up -- all
he has to do is fly over you or under you and shoot you." Asking if
he had seen some of them? Carey, replied, "Yea. [He saw] Me 262's, Me
410's, the Me 109 and the FW 190 -- those were the main ones. But we
saw this [410] maybe twice. But when they came through -- they could
be way above you -- not even aiming at you -- everybody is watching
him. -- All he had to do was turn the guns on and rake you." [Asking
which he had the most respect for as a fighter?] "I guess it was the
109."
Interior
of the ball. The extremely cramped interior of the Sperry Ball
Turret. (Photo: Gunner, An Illustrated History of World War II
Aircraft Turrets and Gun Positions, by Donald Nijboer.
Photographs by Dan Patterson. pp. 50.) Click on Image for Larger
View and Additional Information.
Sperry
Ball Turret. This wartime drawing shows the
ammunition storage system.
(Photo: Gunner, An Illustrated History of World War II
Aircraft Turrets and Gun Positions, by Donald Nijboer.
Photographs by Dan Patterson. pp. 50.)
Click on
Image for Larger View and Additional Information.
We then looked an an
excellent image of the interior of a ball turret and Carey began
commenting on items in the photo. Regarding the 'foot switch' located
under the resting place for his left foot, he commented, "You see,
the sight is different on here -- you remember the thing [referring
to the sight on the B-17 'Aluminum Overcast'] you remember Mickey
[Hurley] saying he was hitting his head on it -- this [one in photo]
is nice an compact. This handle isn't red -- that handle is the
handle to cock it [referring to machine guns]. The other end is here.
When you pull it, it pulls the bullet -- you have to get one bullet
in there to make it work. You see, it is a bullet proof seat -- all
this is heavy and you got the guns. [Looking at the round view port]
Laminated glass. The 20mm went through it -- but it slowed it down so
that it didn't get into the guy's chest."
Carey told me that the
seat on which he sat and was actually facing more towards the front
of the turret, was "bullet proof". He pointed out that a metal faring
had been added to the turret in order to cause less drag as the ball
was turned and rotated.
I mentioned to Carey
that I had heard that the ball turret he used was also installed in
the B-24 and that the result in the B-24 was that it could be drawn
up into the belly of the bomber.He commented, "Well, I don't know if
that's luck. Have you ever seen the B-24 and see what it looks like
inside? I wouldn't put my foot in that thing. It's held by little
cables -- little bitty ole' small cables -- just like a block and
tackle."
Referring to the foot
rest with a "switch" located directly above it, Carey said, "That's
what controls your sight. You see, when you've got the plane in your
sight, they have two little lights -- red lights -- streaks -- that
you have to frame the plane in and keep him in there. That is just
like giving you the deflection and everything." Asked if the sight
and guns were zeroed in at a particular distance, Carey replied,
"They wouldn't -- they kept the same thing all the way out. Well, you
had a distance [that] you couldn't shoot anything -- I think it was
about 2,000 feet." Regarding the firing system employed on the ball,
the 50 cal., Carey said, "If you held the trigger down too long, you
ruined the barrel. That's why they [have] got these sleeves on there.
If they didn't have the sleeve and you maybe if you fired more than
15 rounds without stopping, letting it cool off, your barrel would
bend. That's why these sleeves are on there -- to hold the barrel if
it melts -- if it gets too hot and bends. All the guns are like that
-- got the sleeve on it."
Asking about the gunner
having to "install the twin 50's", Carey said, " Well they had the
housing in there [ball]. You had to put the guts and the barrel in
there. You had to slide the barrel through here [pointing to the
barrel opening in the turret] and then open the hatch on top and put
all your buffer and everything else -- from inside the turret -- on
the ground. You had to lay in there -- on the ground. You didn't sit
in it -- you opened the door and climbed in it -- belly first and you
worked on it -- just like when that door was opened [referring to the
"Aluminum Overcast"] -- you stick your head and your arms in there --
go in head first.
Following Carey's
interview, we continued to sit -- relaxing -- and just shooting the
breeze. Carey brought up a rather interesting little story about his
Dad. He said, "My Mother had some [newspaper] clippings of my Dad,
Conrad Mavor, when he was single and he came back from World War I.
He got strafed by an airplane. He was in the cavalry -- in the
Rainbow Division. He had a horse and a crew that carried a caisson
with the gun on it. He was riding on the lead horse that pulled the
caisson and here comes this plane. He didn't shoot the gun. He shot
my Dad on the horse. He shot him through the leg, through the horse
-- in both legs. My Dad went to the hospital and he got discharged
afterwards. I think that's really what caused my Dad to die so young.
He had been shot up in the legs. My Mother had the little clipping in
the paper when he came home from the war. He was one guy and nine
sisters and I think I've got it somewhere. I think that my Dad and
myself are the only two guys that got shot at and shot. My Daddy had
the Purple Heart and a couple of other awards that they had given to
him. But of all the family, it was my Dad and myself in the 'shooting
war'. The rest of them either worked at the dock, or worked here --
New Orleans -- or worked in the office."
Carey mentioned that he
was telling a guy about the tires on his B-17 that they flew in. He
said, "On the side of the tire about every foot and a half or so were
some louvers made out of rubber made into the tire. It grabbed the
wind and started the tire spinning...it was all on the inside, not
the outside. The runways on our base were asphalt over concrete and
impregnated with big pieces of wood shavings to take the wear and
tear off of the tires."
Talking about the ball,
Carey said,"Our ammunition rode with us -- it turned around -- big
cans. On top of that we had oxygen bottles -- we had our own oxygen
system"
Asking about Carey's
Air Medals, he replied that every sixth mission that he flew, he
received an air medal. He received the air medal four times. He
didn't know about the awards until he was leaving and they gave him a
little box with the Air Medal in it.
In parting, Carey sums
up his days with the 452nd Bomb Group, "We were there!"
-----Carey W. Mavor
Information on the Operational Bomb
Groups:
Identification: SQUARE L
452nd BG
B-17F & G in olive and grey factory finish.
Natural metal from March 1944. Squadron codes issued but not
displayed during hostilities. 728BS -- M3, 729BS -- 9Z, 730BS -- 7D,
731BS -- 6K, underwing post VE-day. A few PFF a/c inherited from
431BS retained MZ codes on fuselage. From summer 1944 bar and plus
symbol adjacent a/c letter: 728BS -- bar before letter, 729BS -- bar
after letter, 730BS -- no sign, 731BS -- plus after letter. Group
markings: L in square. From end January 1945 two parallel horizontal
yellow bands on vertical tail and cordwise on wings. A/c letter on
lower tail band in black. Existing markings remained.
Source: The Mighty Eight (A
History of the Units, Men and Machines of the US ith Air
Forece), by Roger A. Freeman. pp. 289
Missions flown by Carey W. Mavor:
Target Locations of the 452nd Bombardment
Group
