November 3, 1998

Bill: WELCOME BACK TO Much, AND AS PROMISED MEMBERS OF HOLE ARE IN THE ENVIRONMENT. WE HAVE ERIC AND MELISSA. AS FAR AS MELISSA'S CONCERNED, I'VE GOT TO SAY WELCOME BACK TO CANADA.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Bill: BECAUSE IF ANYBODY KNOWS THE BAND AT ALL, THEY KNOW THAT YOU WERE BORN IN MONTREAL.
BORN AND BRED.
Bill: FROM MONTREAL.
OH, ABSOLUTELY.
Bill: DO YOU MISS CANADA AT ALL?
ALL THE TIME. BUT I COME BACK A LOT, YEAH.
Bill: GOOD. SO FOR ERIC, WERE YOU BORN IN L.A?
YEAH.
Bill: OKAY. YOU CAN BE AN HONOURARY CANADIAN FOR THE NEXT FEW MINUTES.
ABSOLUTELY. I'M BRINGING HIM OUT WITH MY CANADIAN FRIENDS FOR THE NEXT THREE DAYS, SLOAN AND RUFUS. EVERYONE'S PLAYING. HE'LL GET A GOOD TASTE OF THE CANADIANS.
Bill: OH, GOOD.
I'LL BE TORONTO; YOU BE FROM MONTREAL.
YEAH, THAT'S ALL RIGHT.
Bill: FREE HEALTH CARE. YOU GOTTA LIKE THAT. THAT'S A NICE THING. ANYWAY, I'M GONNA HOLD THIS UP. THIS IS "CELEBRITY SKIN" BY HOLE. FANS HAVE HAD TO HAVE A GOOD FOUR-YEAR WAIT FOR THIS. YOU HAVEN'T BEEN WORKING ON THE RECORD FOR FOUR YEARS, OF COURSE.
WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY VACATION TIME IN FOUR YEARS, THAT'S FOR SURE.
Bill: BECAUSE YOU'VE PLAYED. COURTNEY WAS DOING MOVIES AND STUFF. BUT AS FAR AS THE BAND IS CONCERNED, THOUGH, WERE YOU FEELING IMPATIENT AT ALL?
WE WERE CONSTANTLY WORKING.
YEAH. THAT TIME WAS NEEDED. IT WASN'T LIKE A WASTE OF TIME. A LOT OF GROWTH, A LOT OF LEARNING MORE ABOUT YOUR TOOLS, LEARNING THE CRAFT, STUDYING, HAVING THE LUXURY TO WORK WITH AMAZING PRODUCERS AND TAKE THE TIME TO DO IT.
Bill: AS FAR AS YOU WERE CONCERNED, THOUGH, YOUR FIRST DEALINGS WITH HOLE WERE LIVE, PLAYING FOR THE LAST RECORD, IN SUPPORT OF THE LAST RECORD.
YEAH.
Bill: HOW WAS THE WORK IN THE STUDIO THEN?
FUN. I MEAN, THAT WAS MY FIRST RECORD I'VE EVER MADE, SO I'VE NEVER KNOWN ANYTHING BUT PLAYING WITH THESE GUYS REALLY, OTHER THAN A COUPLE OF SMALL RECORDINGS WITH MY OLD BAND TINKER. YEAH, TOURING WITH THEM FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, WE GOT KIND OF PRETTY BONDED, MUSICALLY AT LEAST IN A LIVE SETTING. AND THEN RECORDING AND WRITING OF SONGS WAS JUST THE NATURAL NEXT STEP, AND IT WAS GREAT.
Bill: I CAN'T IMAGINE JOINING THIS BAND AND, YOU KNOW -- YEAH, I GUESS THERE'S AN AUDITION THAT TAKES PLACE OR SOMETHING. IF YOU HAVE THE MUSICAL CHOPS, YOU'RE IN. BUT THAT SEEMS TOO EASY. IS THERE KIND OF MAYBE AN INITIATION THAT TAKES PLACE? IT HAS TO BE MORE THAN JUST MUSIC.
WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS EARLIER, YEAH, OF WHAT MADE IT BE SORT OF LIKE -- THE SECOND I MADE THE DECISION THAT I WAS WILLING TO DO IT, IT JUST HAPPENED, AND THE SECOND THEY KIND OF...
I THINK COURTNEY LOOKED AT WHAT SHE WAS WEARING AND DECIDED, OH, SHE'S THE RIGHT ONE.
IT WENT FROM THE RECOMMENDATION TO THE FACT THAT I SAID "NO" BECAUSE I HAD MY OWN LIFE GOING ON, AND THEN AT THE SAME TIME REALIZING IT WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND TAKING IT, AND IT REALLY HAPPENED -- LIKE, I WENT OUT FOR, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE ONE HOUR THAT I THOUGHT WAS THE AUDITION TURNED INTO FOUR AND A BIT YEARS, SO...
Bill: PERFECT.
NOTHING EVER CHANGED.
Bill: NOW YOU CO-FOUNDED THE BAND WITH COURTNEY IN L.A. YEARS AGO. JUST WONDERING WHY IT TOOK THIS LONG TO USE L.A. AS A SPRINGBOARD FOR SO MANY IDEAS FOR A RECORD. 'CAUSE THE IDEA OF HOLLYWOOD AND THE MIND SET REALLY PERMEATES THE RECORD A LOT.
WELL, OUR FIRST ALBUM WAS A REACTION TO WHAT WAS GOING ON IN LOS ANGELES AT THAT TIME, IN 1989/1990. AND THEN -- BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WEREN'T AS PROFICIENT AT EXPRESSING -- IT WAS MORE OF A REACTION, YOU KNOW.
Bill: OKAY.
IT WAS MORE SUBVERSIVE IN REACTING TO IT. WHEREAS NOW, WE HAD ALL MOVED BACK TO L.A. WE HAD MOVED, YOU KNOW, TO SEATTLE, AND SHE CAME FROM CANADA; AND THEN WE DISCOVERED L.A., YOU KNOW, A NEW LIGHT.
Bill: YOU MUST SEE A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT COURTNEY WAS WRITING ABOUT, THOUGH, JUST THE REFERENCES TO, YOU KNOW, WAITRESSES; EVERYONE GOES THERE WITH THE SAME GOAL, THAT'S TO MEET A STAR.
YEAH. Bill: AND IT'S SAD ALMOST BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY BROKEN DREAMS.
RIGHT. BUT, I MEAN, WE HAD TRIED A LOT OF DIFFERENT BACKDROPS. LIKE WE WORKED IN NEW ORLEANS FOR A WHILE. WE TRIED A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT PLACES TO INSPIRE THE RECORD, AND BASICALLY WHEN WE KIND OF ALL GOT TO LOS ANGELES, IT SEEMED REALLY CLEAR THAT THAT WAS A -- NOT ONLY A FULL OF COMPLEXITY PLACE TO USE AS A MUSE, BUT LIKE IT'S A ROCK TRADITION, TOO. AND TAKING PART OF, LIKE, OF ROCK TRADITION OF WRITING A LOS ANGELES RECORD WAS KIND OF A FUN, LIKE, AMBITION/GOAL TO DO. WE LIKE THE BEACH BOYS AND WE LIKE GUNS N ROSES, JANE'S ADDICTION, EAGLES.
Bill: FLEETWOOD MAC MAYBE.
ABSOLUTELY.
Bill: GOOD.
NO ONE HAD DONE IT FOR A WHILE.
Bill: OKAY. NOW, A LOT OF REVIEWS, THE SAME THING KEEPS COMING UP AND THAT IS IT'S LESS ANGRY. THERE'S I GUESS ONE KIND OF CYNICAL SONG, BUT COURTNEY HAS SAID FOR THE MOST PART IT'S A HOPEFUL RECORD. CAN YOU SEE THE HOPE WHEN SHE FIRST PRESENTED THE LYRICS TO THE BAND? COULD YOU HEAR WHAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT?
I THINK EVERYTHING WAS KIND OF MORE HEADING TOWARDS A PRODUCTION -- LIKE WE WANTED TO BE TECHNICALLY MORE PROFICIENT. THERE'S A LOT -- LET'S BE PRODUCTIVE HERE. LET'S BECOME BETTER PEOPLE. LET'S BECOME A BETTER BASS PLAYER, BETTER SONGWRITERS, BETTER -- I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. THERE'S A LOT OF LIGHT THAT WAS, YOU KNOW -- WE WERE AIMING TOWARDS HIGHER PLACES, I THINK, ON MANY LEVELS, SO I THINK THAT THAT MAKES SENSE AND WILL BE REFLECTED IN THE LYRICS, TOO.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO EASY TO JUST...
Bill: ANOTHER ANGRY RECORD.
YEAH, ANOTHER RECORD...
I THINK COURTNEY MENTIONED THAT IT WAS A CHALLENGE FOR HER TO EDIT AND TO THINK ABOUT MORE CLEARLY WHAT SHE WANTED TO PRESENT INSTEAD OF JUST RIPPING OUT PAGES OUT OF YOUR DIARY, AND SHE'D KIND OF DONE THAT BEFORE.
Bill: WHERE DID THAT COME FROM? WAS THAT JUST A NATURAL PROGRESSION FROM GETTING OLDER AND JUST DEALING WITH THE MUSIC BUSINESS AND JUST LEARNING? BECAUSE I WAS SURPRISED AT HOW MUCH PRESS WAS -- AND ATTENTION WAS GENERATED FROM BILLY CORGAN'S SLIGHT INPUT. YOU KEPT READING ABOUT IT OVER AND OVER. IT WAS ALMOST LIKE HE JOINED THE BAND WAS THE IMPRESSION THAT I WAS GETTING.
UM-HMM.
Bill: HOW MUCH INVOLVEMENT WAS THERE?
OH, BILLY -- BILLY'S ALWAYS BEEN AROUND. (Chuckling) BILLY WAS GOING OUT WITH COURTNEY BEFORE. BILLY GOT ME IN THE BAND. I MADE A RECORD WITH RICK OCASEK LAST YEAR. BILLY WAS INVOLVED. HE'S JUST AROUND. HE'S OUR FRIEND BILLY. BUT HE WAS REALLY GREAT FOR MOTIVATING COURTNEY. A LOT OF, LIKE -- WE ALL WENT TO, LIKE, RESEARCH A BIT MORE. BUT, LIKE, I LISTENED TO LED ZEPPELIN FOR A YEAR AND A HALF AND LISTENED TO WHAT MADE A GREAT RHYTHM SECTION; COURTNEY LISTENED TO SINATRA; HE LISTENED TO, YOU KNOW, LINDSAY BUCKINGHAM, WHATEVER. AND BILLY WAS REALLY GREAT WITH VOCAL PHRASING AND REALLY HELPED OUT A LOT IN THAT WAY. HE WAS JUST A GOOD FRIEND.
YEAH, HE WAS JUST A FRIEND THAT CAME IN AND HELPED FOR LIKE TWELVE DAYS. YOU KNOW, THAT WAS IT.
AND WE WERE JUST BEING HONEST ABOUT IT.
YEAH. Bill: THE PRESS SEEMED TO...
OF COURSE. OH, MY GOD. LOOK HOW BIG THAT GUY IS, AND WHO ARE WE LITTLE LADIES?
I MEAN, HE IS A BIG PERSONA, AND SO IT KIND OF...
Bill: WHY IS HE REPRESENTED BY A SWAN?
COURTNEY WANTED HIM TO BE PRESENTED AS SOMETHING GRACEFUL.
BE BEAUTIFUL.
Bill: OKAY. I DON'T SEE IT, BUT THEN AGAIN... THAT'S OKAY. BUT WE SEE IT.
Bill: OKAY. THAT'S GOOD THEN. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHY SO MUCH WATER IS INVOLVED WITH THE RECORD. THERE'S A LOT OF REFERENCES TO WATER. YOU TALK ABOUT THIS RECORD IS DEDICATED TO ALL THE STOLEN WATER OF LOS ANGELES. THERE'S PICTURES OF LIKE THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER.
IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH AGAIN THE WHOLE CALIFORNIA THING, WHICH IS THE HISTORY OF LOS ANGELES AND IT BEING THE DESERT, THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE THERE. WE SHOULDN'T BE LIVING THERE. THERE SHOULDN'T BE FANCY HOMES AND TROPICAL FLOWERS. IT'S A BIG MAN-MADE PARADISE, AND THAT -- KIND OF LIKE THAT NOTION OF IMPORTING SPIRITUALITY OR DEPTH OR WATER FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE TO MAKE A COMMUNITY THAT'S AN AMAZING KIND OF CONCEPT. IT'S LIKE THAT FILM "CHINATOWN." IT'S ALL ABOUT WHAT MADE LOS ANGELES LOS ANGELES. AND THEN WITHIN THAT, THERE'S ALSO FIRE AND WATER AND ALL THE, YOU KNOW, NATURE MEETS INDUSTRIALIZATION, WHATEVER.
Bill: THE WHOLE STATE STEMMED... MENTALITY THOUGH.
AND ALSO THEY'RE JUST NICE IMAGES, LIKE THE DROWNING WOMAN AND THEN THE PALM TREES ON FIRE. THOSE ARE PICTURES OF THE MALIBU FIRES, WHICH IS SUCH A...
AND WHILE WE WERE MAKING THIS ALBUM, YOU KNOW, THE WATER BECAME A METAPHOR OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAD LOST, AND SOME PEOPLE OUTSIDE OUR CIRCLE, OUR CIRCLE OF FRIENDS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DROWNINGS AND -- JUST -- IT BECAME A -- JUST A BIG METAPHOR.
Bill: A NICE PERSONAL ANGLE FOR YOU, TOO. IT MEANS SOMETHING TO YOU AS WELL. OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE FIRST TRACK WHICH IS "CELEBRITY SKIN." WHAT'S THE SECOND SINGLE? DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA
BE? "MALIBU." WE JUST SHOT THE VIDEO. IT'S MORE FIRE AND WATER.
Bill: OKAY. YOU LOOK GREAT IN THE FIRST VIDEO. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE SECOND VIDEO. HERE'S "CELEBRITY SKIN," TITLE TRACK FROM HOLE RIGHT HERE ON Much. (Video played)