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1 OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER
2 LABORERS'INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH AMERICA
3
4 IN RE: )
5 TRUSTEESHIP PROCEEDINGS ) No. 97-30T
6 CHICAGO DISTRICT COUNCIL )
7
8
9
10 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS had in the
11 above-entitled cause at the Midland Hotel, 172
12 West Adams Street, Chicago, Illinois, on the 16th
13 day of July, A.D. 1997, at 9:22 a.m.
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15
16 BEFORE: MR. PETER F. VAIRA, Hearing Officer
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1 PRESENT:
2
3 COMEY, BOYD & LUSKIN,
4 (1025 Thomas Jefferson Street, N.W.,
5 Washington, D.C. 20007-5243), by:
6 MR. ROBERT M. THOMAS, JR.,
7 MR. DWIGHT P. BOSTWICK,
8 appeared on behalf of the GEB Attorney;
9
10 CARMELL, CHARONE, WIDMER, MATHEWS & MOSS,
11 LTD.,
12 (225 West Washington Street, Suite 1000,
13 Chicago, Illinois 60606), by:
14 MR. SHERMAN CARMELL,
15 MR. MARTIN P. BARR,
16 MS. SUZANNE M. LAW,
17 appeared on behalf of the Chicago
18 District Council of Laborers;
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1 PRESENT: (Cont'd)
2 EARL L. NEAL & ASSOCIATES,
3 (111 West Washington, Suite 1700,
4 Chicago, Illinois 60602), by:
5 MR. GEORGE N. LEIGHTON,
6 appeared on behalf of
7 John A. Matassa, Jr.
8
9 ALSO PRESENT:
10 MS. CHERYL MARQUARDT
11
12 REPORTED BY: MARY KAY BELCOLORE, CSR, RPR.
13 CORINNE T. MARUT, CSR, RPR.
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1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Ladies and gentlemen,
2 let's bring this meeting to order. My name is
3 Peter Vaira. I'm the independent hearing officer
4 from the Laborers' International Union.
5 Sitting beside me is a paralegal from
6 one of the local law firms. I sometimes use,
7 often use a lawyer from my office. But for at
8 least the next couple days, Miss Marquardt will do
9 the, just taking personal notes for me.
10 This is a hearing in the matter of the
11 Chicago District Council. It's a complaint filed
12 by the Laborers' International Union against the
13 District Council under trusteeship pursuant to the
14 Laborers' International Union of North American
15 Constitution. And the law that applies in these
16 areas is well settled in the reported cases in all
17 the labor reporters. We will follow that.
18 Let me just go over some working rules
19 here. We will generally follow the rules of
20 arbitration and the rules of evidence. However,
21 as you know, in those situations, the rules of
22 hearsay are greatly relaxed.
23 What I will generally do is, if
24 evidence is offered, it is permitted to be,
1 permitted to be made part of the record, unless
2 it's so far out that it's ridiculous.
3 But if it has some possible probative
4 value, we will let it come in as part of the
5 record.
6 At the end of the proceeding, I would
7 expect the Council will tell me why or why not
8 some of the evidence does or does not apply or
9 should not be probative.
10 But so we won't go into long arguments
11 over the evidentiary value of some of the items,
12 unless there's a very serious question.
13 I have some persons here -- let me just
14 say this. The rules of our union is that the, are
15 that in trusteeship matters, and other matters
16 that we hear, only the persons who are involved
17 are entitled to come.
18 This is an in-house battle between its
19 members, and no outsiders should be allowed to
20 participate. That doesn't mean you are not
21 free -- I can't stop anyone from talking about it
22 after they leave here. But the doors are closed;
23 only the persons, relevant persons, and the
24 relevant persons here would be the members of
1 this, the delegates to this particular union,
2 District Council.
3 And there are maybe, I think there is a
4 member from the International Union just to
5 observe, and some members of the GEB Attorney's
6 staff. But the reason for that is, this is an
7 in-house affair, and this is the union's problem
8 to settle. And they are going to settle it inside
9 these doors.
10 All right. I have some appearances
11 here; who? The GEB Attorney is represented by
12 whom, sir?
13 MR. BOSTWICK: Dwight Bostwick and Robert
14 Thomas.
15 MR. THOMAS: Robert Thomas.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: Representing District
17 Council?
18 MR. CARMELL: Sherman Carmell, Martin P.
19 Barr, Suzanne M. Law.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, thank you.
21 MR. LEIGHTON: George N. Leighton,
22 representing John Matassa.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: I know that I received
24 a call from some other attorneys who may appear
1 for some individuals. And I'm not going to
2 mention their name now. I'll mention them to the
3 other attorneys. They are the attorneys that I
4 know, and have known for a long time, and I
5 believe will sometime during the proceedings
6 appear here.
7 Gentlemen, prior to beginning, we had a
8 lawyers' conference, and we talked about some
9 issues that have come up. Do you want to put
10 that, the gist of our conversation on the record?
11 MR. BOSTWICK: Certainly, your Honor. This
12 is Dwight Bostwick from the GEB Attorney's
13 office.
14 Our position would be on this issue
15 that they, the individuals who are officers, or
16 delegates, for that matter, of the District
17 Council are not specifically named parties in this
18 action; just the District Council is.
19 If there were individuals or officers
20 who wanted to cross-examine or participate in this
21 hearing, that they should be collaterally estopped
22 on those issues and any future disciplinary
23 matters that are brought against those
24 individuals.
1 If they don't choose to exercise that
2 ability, then they would simply, if charged in a
3 disciplinary hearing, have whatever full rights
4 and protections they have normally, and would be
5 able to cross-examine those people at that time.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell?
7 MR. CARMELL: Well, obviously the District
8 Council doesn't take any position on it, except to
9 be pleased that we cleared the issue, as regarding
10 appearance of attorneys, that as Mr. Bostwick has
11 said, so that that can be relayed, I can relay
12 that to the officers, delegates who may be
13 considering having counsel, and to any counsel
14 that may call me.
15 With that being said, that is the only
16 decision the District Council has.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: I gave you a
18 preliminary ruling from me.
19 Because the issues in this case,
20 trusteeship issues, are so fluid, this is almost,
21 almost an investigatory type of a proceeding.
22 It's -- it is not in danger of a disciplinary
23 matter and the issues are going to be fluid and
24 maybe not well-defined.
1 So, to say that someone would be
2 collaterally estopped if they examined, I gave a
3 ruling. If an individual wants to examine a
4 witness on behalf of a person they represent
5 outside of just one or two questions, if they
6 proceed and want to make an examination, there is
7 a presumption, a rebuttable presumption, they may
8 be collaterally estopped at a secondary hearing.
9 But I say a rebuttable presumption
10 because the issues, I don't think they are the
11 same and this is such an informal proceeding and I
12 will treat it that way that I don't want to make a
13 hard-and-fast rule.
14 I do reserve the right, though, to cut
15 that off. If someone proceeds and begins a long,
16 long, long examination, I am just going to cut it
17 off. We will worry about the presumption later.
18 For those persons who don't want to
19 examine or decide that that is not -- they are not
20 estopped. So I am not going to make that
21 hard-and-fast rule.
22 MR. CARMELL: I thank the hearing officer for
23 it because, as you well recognize, being an
24 experienced trial attorney, that the interest of
1 the District Council may at any given time not be
2 in line with a particular officer or delegate.
3 Therefore, the trial decision that the
4 District Council makes to examine or not examine a
5 particular witness should not inure to the
6 detriment of any of the individual officers or
7 delegates.
8 I think with that on the record and
9 your rulings and the GEB attorney's statements,
10 that the officers and delegates are now fully
11 advised of their opportunity to have an
12 independent hearing if and when some other
13 proceeding is filed that involves them.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think that's fine.
15 Gentlemen, we will proceed. I look
16 back and sometimes the union in these proceedings
17 sets out coffee or something else for people --
18 for persons to participate. It is a rare occasion
19 when there isn't some coffee. There doesn't seem
20 to be any here today, but maybe sometime in the
21 next few hours we could think about that.
22 I was a hearing officer connected with
23 hearings in Beaumont, Texas. For some reason the
24 union there seemed to think ice water was all we
1 should have, nothing stronger than that. The
2 lawyers's table had ice water as much as you could
3 drink. That was about it.
4 So, sometime along the way we may see
5 if there is some coffee available so the
6 participants can pick up and go back including the
7 Hearing Officer can go back and get some coffee.
8 Gentlemen, let's go.
9 MR. CARMELL: Preliminary matter, Mr. Hearing
10 Officer.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, sir. You can call
12 me Mr. Vaira. That's fine. This is among
13 lawyers. Go ahead.
14 MR. CARMELL: All right, Mr. Vaira. The
15 District Council wishes to at this time renew its
16 motion that you recuse yourself and place into the
17 record, in addition to the matters which you have
18 ruled on, which I am not going to repeat that have
19 been ruled on, matters that appeared in the
20 Chicago Sun-Times on Sunday, July 13, 1997, a
21 rather long and involved article which begins
22 with -- about the laborers hearings today.
23 And I'd like to read into the record
24 and go from there this following which appears in
1 the article, quote: "The outcome many labor
2 observers say is a foregone conclusion. The
3 International Union must and will place the
4 Chicago Council under trusteeship to
5 demonstrate its commitment to reform."
6 And there is the following which is
7 even more directly --
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, who said
9 that? Who is the person being quoted?
10 MR. CARMELL: It doesn't say.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Oh, okay.
12 MR. CARMELL: It says, as papers do, many
13 labor observers say. The writer of the article is
14 Tom McNamee.
15 Within this article is the following,
16 and these are quotes:
17 "In another twist, the Hearing Officer
18 will be Philadelphia attorney Peter F. Vaira
19 who is already on record as saying the
20 laborers union, including the Chicago
21 Council is a, quote, 'captive,' unquote, of
22 organized crime.
23 "As head of the Justice Department's
24 Chicago Strike Force in 1982, Vaira co-wrote
1 the internal memo that spelled out the
2 union's mob ties.
3 "But Vaira said Friday that it is
4 common practice for unions attempting to
5 clean house to choose former judges and
6 prosecutors as hearing officers to give the
7 proceedings credibility," end of quote.
8 Mr. Vaira, taken in context of these
9 statements that it's a foregone conclusion and
10 that the only person -- the initial person at
11 least who would reach a conclusion is the Hearing
12 Officer subject to appeal to the Appellate level,
13 sir, together with the statement and the fact that
14 we have not seen the 1980 -- whatever this 1982
15 Chicago Strike Force memorandum, we would like to
16 have an opportunity to see that so that it could
17 be part of the record if we believe it appropriate
18 because it seems to confirm the testimony that you
19 gave and which is part of the motion to recuse
20 yourself.
21 I want to make it clear that the
22 District Council doesn't quarrel with former
23 prosecutors or even, by God, former defense
24 lawyers from having employment as hearing officers
1 in internal matters. We have former prosecutors
2 who are judges in the District Court, et cetera.
3 It is, Mr. Vaira, the combination of
4 the fact that the Department of Justice at any
5 time, as the hearings show, can rescind the
6 agreement and file a consent decree, in which case
7 the independent hearing officer status is gone.
8 It's replaced by an independent monitor.
9 Together with not just your having been
10 an attorney, but the testimony you gave before the
11 Senate select committee and apparently, and I say
12 that underlined apparently because I haven't seen
13 this memo which says that, according to
14 Mr. McNamee, that the Chicago District Council of
15 laborers is a captive of organized crime, since
16 this is the main thrust of this hearing, as I read
17 it plain, permeates the whole hearing, in our
18 previous hearing conference, telephone conference,
19 I think that became clear.
20 We have a lot more here than your
21 former status and if, nothing else, Mr. Vaira, and
22 I'd like you to consider this, we have some 20 odd
23 locals and thousands and thousands of members who,
24 if the outcome of this is as the Sun-Times writer
1 says will never believe that it was done because
2 the evidence showed it but will believe that it's
3 because it had to be done and that you had already
4 made up your mind.
5 If nothing else, from the appearance of
6 conflict, appearance of bias that goes into the
7 reasonable members' minds, I would suggest to you
8 and request that you reconsider and determine that
9 you will recuse yourself from this hearing.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you.
11 Mr. Bostwick, any comments?
12 MR. BOSTWICK: Well, I will make them brief.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let me just add one.
14 That internal memo that you speak of written in
15 19 -- maybe '75, I have no copy of. I have not
16 seen it, haven't thought about it for years. It
17 was some sort of white paper. I think management
18 paper that said the Department of Justice, a
19 management tool for manpower, something like
20 that. And whatever it said, I have no idea. I
21 can't recall that.
22 Mr. Bostwick.
23 MR. BOSTWICK: Well, I will keep my comments
24 brief.
1 The appearance and the reality of the
2 integrity of the reform process have already been
3 litigated in other forums. Mr. Carmell knows that
4 well. He was the one that litigated them.
5 We have the stamp of approval of the
6 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, the District --
7 Federal District Court here in Chicago as well as
8 Congressional committees in Washington, D.C. after
9 days of hearing.
10 So, I don't take seriously the notion
11 that you are unable to preside over the hearing.
12 I also would have worked a lot less
13 hard on this matter if I had thought it was a
14 foregone conclusion, which I do not.
15 And obviously recusal matters are
16 matters for your determination and I will simply
17 leave it at that. From our side, I have no reason
18 to believe that you are unable to rule on these
19 issues fairly.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: As the GEB attorney
21 knows, the GEB attorney has lost a number of
22 decisions before me. As you well know, sir.
23 MR. BOSTWICK: I myself have lost one.
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, I will deny
1 the motion. Let's proceed.
2 MR. BOSTWICK: Brief opening statement.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes. Okay.
4 Feel free to make it wherever you want
5 to make it. If you want to do it there, it's
6 fine.
7 MR. BOSTWICK: I will feel free to walk
8 around a little bit.
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: Wherever you are most
10 comfortable. This is a hearing that is meant to
11 get evidence. I want you all to feel comfortable
12 in doing it. Keep it simple decorum.
13 MR. CARMELL: If we could move that podium,
14 because it does block your exhibits, or replace
15 those, one of the two. I can't see the bottom of
16 that exhibit.
17 MR. BOSTWICK: This exhibit here.
18 MR. CARMELL: I'm just saying, I don't mind
19 if the podium is pushed back or whatever, or we
20 don't use the podium, or however.
21 That's fine. Thanks.
22 OPENING STATEMENT ON BEHALF OF GEB ATTORNEY
23 MR. BOSTWICK: Good morning to the Hearing
24 Officer, to the officers and delegates of the
1 District Council, the attorneys for District
2 Council.
3 My name is Dwight Bostwick. As we
4 mentioned, I'm from the GEB Attorney's office.
5 Here to assist me in presentation of this matter
6 for our office is Bob, Robert Thomas. And we have
7 a number of investigators working for the
8 Inspector General's office who will be present at
9 the hearing, and also part of some testimony.
10 And I will, without any further ado,
11 address my comments to you.
12 The leadership of the Chicago District
13 Council is corrupt. Currently, and for the past
14 25 years, this entity has been filled with mob
15 members, mob associates, and relatives of top mob
16 bosses. We are going to prove this, and I'll tell
17 you how.
18 First we are going to prove the general
19 existence and structure of organized crime in
20 Chicago, which is commonly referred to as the
21 Chicago outfit.
22 We will demonstrate that the leaders of
23 the Chicago District Council have had strong
24 discernible ties to the Chicago outfit for a
1 period of at least 25 years.
2 This first chart, Exhibit 145, is a
3 chart that details in graphics a time line of the
4 general leadership of the Chicago District Council
5 over the past 25 years. It also includes select
6 officials, field representatives and delegates of
7 the Chicago District Council. That's Exhibit 145,
8 for the record.
9 This chart over here is Exhibit 163.
10 This chart is a general depiction of select
11 leaders, crew members, and other individuals in
12 the Chicago outfit, which we will prove through
13 the witness of, through the testimony of a number
14 of witnesses, and through exhibits.
15 This is not all of the Chicago outfit.
16 This is a select portion of the individuals that
17 will be mentioned most at the hearing. These are
18 individuals who have the closest ties to the
19 leadership of the Chicago Laborers' District
20 Council, as set forth in Exhibit 145.
21 The short way of saying this is that
22 this hearing is all about the connections between
23 these two charts. That's our case.
24 You are going to hear from a parade of
1 witnesses who have extensive law enforcement
2 backgrounds. These individuals have worked
3 organized crime activity here in the city for
4 decades.
5 They have surveilled meetings of
6 organized crime figures, listened to tapes and
7 discussions of these crime figures, worked on
8 undercover operations, reviewed police and FBI
9 reports.
10 They have spoken personally to sources
11 and witnesses who are associates of organized
12 crime. Over and over again, these individuals are
13 going to identify the people on these charts as
14 being associated with organized crime.
15 You will also hear from witnesses who
16 are associates in the mob in live testimony. And
17 in prior sworn testimony, you are going to hear
18 these mob associates tell you about their
19 experiences in the mob, and how the mob operates.
20 You are also going to hear them testify
21 about their personal experiences with the
22 individuals on these charts. They are going to
23 provide consistent and compelling testimony about
24 the ties between the leadership of the Chicago
1 District Council and the Chicago outfit over the
2 past 25 years.
3 We are going to prove that the Chicago
4 District Council leaders identified on this chart
5 and in the trusteeship complaint, who owe their
6 allegiance on the one hand to the working members
7 of the union, who bargain collectively for Chicago
8 area locals, and who sit as trustees over pension,
9 health and welfare funds, that have literally
10 hundreds of millions of dollars as assets,
11 actually owe their primary allegiance to the
12 Chicago outfit.
13 Our position and the reason we are
14 bringing this case is because that's
15 unacceptable.
16 Toward the end of the case, we are
17 going to show that the outfit's control and
18 influence over the leadership positions in the
19 Chicago District Council has resulted in numerous
20 specific instances of undemocratic procedures and
21 financial malpractice.
22 Some of the manifestations of this
23 corruption are as follows: The transfers of power
24 without contested election for a period of 25
1 years in select locals and District Council,
2 uncontested transfers of outfit individuals from
3 official positions in different locals,
4 uncontested selection of leaders who are not
5 qualified to serve as officials, transfer of power
6 from one individual with associations with the
7 outfit to another, the practice of accepting
8 unauthorized dual salaries, aggregating to
9 millions of dollars, and the irresponsible
10 appointment of trustees who preside over the
11 affairs of affiliated funds.
12 But perhaps the most damning evidence
13 that you will hear is the deafening silence of the
14 leaders and delegates of the District Council, as
15 organized crime related arrests, indictments and
16 convictions pile up over the years, as a series of
17 Congressional committees, the President's
18 Commission on Organized Crime, hold hearings and
19 submit reports on organized crime specifically in
20 Chicago, and how this is connected with the
21 District Council and the individuals in the
22 District Council and various affiliated locals,
23 and as the press and the Chicago Crime Commission
24 continue to expose organized crime ties to the
1 Chicago District Council's leadership.
2 The evidence we will present is
3 extraordinary, and will compare favorably to that
4 presented in federal criminal trials.
5 At the close of the hearing, we are
6 going to ask the Independent Hearing Officer to
7 impose a trusteeship on the Laborers' District
8 Council to correct corruption and LCN influence,
9 to correct financial malpractice and to restore
10 Democratic procedures to this institution.
11 But we have a message for the delegates
12 of the Chicago District Council as well through
13 the presentation of this evidence.
14 Let's be frank. You all have a
15 fiduciary duty to your union members to protect
16 and safeguard their jobs and their money. You
17 have a duty to listen to this evidence, and take
18 positive steps and affirmative steps to help
19 eradicate the influence of organized crime in this
20 union.
21 We expect that based upon the hearing
22 of this evidence, you will find it necessary to
23 take action yourselves, and in fact, that is the
24 only way this forum, process is ultimately going
1 to work.
2 That's all I have at this time. We are
3 ready to present our case.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, you may if
5 you wish.
6 MR. CARMELL: I don't wish at this time.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: All right, sir. Would
8 you proceed?
9 MR. BOSTWICK: We will call Mr. Douglas Gow.
10 By way of explanation for the Hearing
11 Officer and the District Council attorneys, we
12 have done the following with respect to the
13 exhibits.
14 We have boxes of exhibits marked with
15 tabs, indicating the numbers of the exhibits. I'm
16 going to ask the witnesses simply to pull those
17 documents as we referred to them, and replace
18 them. But if the GEB Attorney -- I'm sorry, if
19 the Independent Hearing Officer or the District
20 Council attorneys want to review that evidence at
21 the same time, they have the boxes right next to
22 them.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: He has a box also?
24 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. They have a
1 box as well.
2 So with that, I'll proceed, if that's,
3 if we're ready.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think somebody here
5 is able to administer an oath.
6 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly
7 sworn.)
8 W. DOUGLAS GOW,
9 called as a witness herein, having been first duly
10 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
13 Q. Sir, could I have your name?
14 A. W. Douglas Gow.
15 Q. What is your current occupation?
16 A. Currently, I'm the Inspector General
17 for the Laborers' International Union.
18 Q. What is the scope of your duties?
19 A. In essence, my duties extend to
20 enforcement of the disciplinary and ethics code,
21 and certain violations of the Constitution of the
22 union. The emphasis here is upon eradicating
23 organized crime influence within the union.
24 Q. Have you had any prior experience in
1 law enforcement?
2 A. Yes, I have.
3 Q. What agencies?
4 A. FBI.
5 Q. What period of time were you with the
6 FBI?
7 A. I was with the FBI approximately 30
8 years.
9 Q. Could you describe the position you
10 held with the FBI?
11 A. I held a variety of positions there,
12 beginning with the investigative position, and
13 rose up through the administrative ranks, holding
14 virtually every supervisory job in the FBI. I
15 retired as the associate deputy director.
16 Q. Did you at one time hold the position
17 of section chief for the criminal section?
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. Could you tell me what the duties
20 entail of that job?
21 A. Well, at the time that I had that
22 position, the criminal section of the criminal
23 investigative division was the largest section
24 within that division. We had responsibility for
1 all undercover operations, a number of criminal
2 violations; not all that the division handled.
3 For instance, I did not have organized
4 crime. I had all violent crimes, property crimes,
5 threats against individuals and so forth.
6 Q. Are you familiar with the investigative
7 techniques of the FBI through your experience in
8 these various positions?
9 A. Yes, sir.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Folks in the back, are
11 you able to hear Mr. Gow?
12 Get a little closer to your
13 microphone.
14 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
15 Q. What investigative techniques, Mr. Gow,
16 are you applying in your investigative effort to
17 identify LCN corruption within LIUNA?
18 A. Basically utilizing the investigative
19 techniques that I applied in the FBI. There are
20 limitations in this job. For instance, there are
21 certain things I don't have access to. They are
22 prohibited by law. But our investigations are
23 founded on the rule of law, and with due concern
24 for due process.
1 Q. Have you uncovered evidence of LCN
2 corruption within LIUNA during your tenure as
3 Inspector General?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 MR. CARMELL: I object. That is conclusion.
6 Let him tell the facts.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'll note the
8 objection. You may answer that question. Go
9 ahead.
10 BY THE WITNESS:
11 A. I said yes.
12 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
13 Q. Okay. Have you made an effort to
14 determine reasons that the La Cosa Nostra
15 infiltrates the unions like LIUNA?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Where do you look for answers to those
18 questions?
19 A. In a variety of places. My contacts
20 extend to former law enforcement, current law
21 enforcement, a variety of commissions that have
22 been held with regard to organized crime, public
23 source information such as newspaper articles,
24 books that have been written on the subject,
1 Congressional commissions and Presidential
2 commissions and their reports.
3 Q. What are some of the reasons the
4 La Cosa Nostra infiltrates unions such as LIUNA?
5 A. Basically for financial --
6 MR. CARMELL: In order not to burden the
7 record, you are going to give the same ruling
8 concerning his testimony to these conclusions,
9 which is exactly what you are supposed to find.
10 How they got in supposedly, whether
11 they got in, I don't want to keep making
12 objections. I don't know.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: I will note your
14 objections. The ultimate decision is through me
15 to figure out whether there is -- is organized
16 crime at all and is anywhere in this union, and
17 his conclusions are more of -- I think right now
18 he is going through some sort of historical
19 explanation.
20 I still haven't heard any proof.
21 Whatever he says and if we walked out of here
22 right now, I have heard nothing. I assume that
23 the question about have you found any evidence of
24 it, we'll hear that. If we don't hear it, we
1 don't hear it.
2 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
3 Q. Let me show you Exhibit No. 1. Can you
4 get that exhibit from your box there.
5 A. My eyesight is not quite what it used
6 to be.
7 I have it here.
8 Q. Prior to taking a look at that, what
9 are some of the reasons that you have uncovered
10 for La Cosa Nostra infiltrating unions such as
11 LIUNA?
12 A. Again, there is a number of reasons,
13 but I'd say in essence that it's for financial
14 gain. It's both for legitimate and illegitimate
15 purposes, to place people on payrolls, to
16 establish no-show jobs, people, so to speak, on
17 ghost payrolls, but also to have legitimate jobs
18 to exercise discretion and control of contractors
19 in the collective bargaining process and so forth.
20 Q. What is Exhibit 1 that's before you
21 now?
22 A. Exhibit 1 is a declaration of Alphonse
23 D'Arco that was given in conjunction with United
24 States vs. the Mason Tenders District Council of
1 New York.
2 MR. CARMELL: I am going to object to this.
3 He has testified that this is an affidavit. He
4 has not laid any foundation that he knows that
5 this is Alphonse D'Arco's signature, when it was
6 given or anything. This is hearsay upon hearsay.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: I understand that.
8 This is an affidavit from a District Court case
9 involving the Mason Tenders. Mason Tenders are
10 technically part of this union, am I correct?
11 It's a large portion of this union up
12 in New York, and I presume this is a civil case
13 that the United States brought against the Mason
14 Tenders to put them in receivership. Am I
15 correct?
16 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. Actually that
17 was going to be the next foundational question
18 addressed to Mr. Gow.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: I am glancing over
20 this. As I said earlier, gentlemen, I will
21 generally place all documents that you have before
22 me provisionally into the record. I will wait
23 until the end of the day for someone to tell me
24 why it does or does not apply.
1 I can see this is law division based
2 upon a group of people up in New York. I will
3 admit it, but I am looking for someone to explain
4 to me how it ties into Chicago.
5 MR. CARMELL: Mr. Vaira, maybe I wasn't
6 articulate.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: I understand that.
8 MR. CARMELL: You have made an assumption
9 that because it says it's a declaration of
10 Alphonse D'Arco with a caption on it that in fact
11 it was a document filed, A, in court and,
12 secondly, that this is Alphonse D'Arco's
13 affidavit.
14 This is not an affidavit that Mr. Gow
15 has identified as being that he knows that is
16 Alphonse D'Arco's signature and his affidavit.
17 That's my objection.
18 You've gotten well beyond just an
19 affidavit of someone who this person can
20 identify. That is a different area that we can
21 get into later.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: I understand that. The
23 rules of evidence being as they are in an
24 arbitration, I will expect Mr. Bostwick to give me
1 some assurances or some proof that this is what
2 it's supposed to be.
3 In the meantime you may proceed.
4 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
5 Q. Mr. Gow, where did you receive this
6 document?
7 A. Basically this document and others like
8 it that we received through contacts with the
9 Department of Justice or through access to court
10 records ourselves.
11 Q. Is this part of the LIUNA Inspector
12 General's working file?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Are you confident that it is a true and
15 correct copy of declaration prepared for purposes
16 of United States vs. Mason Tenders District
17 Council?
18 A. I am.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: If I went to the
20 District Court in the Eastern -- Southern District
21 of New York and looked up this civil number, could
22 I find this document? I am asking either one of
23 you gentlemen.
24 THE WITNESS: I can't answer that, Judge,
1 right at this time. A number of these documents
2 with regard to specific individuals I have
3 obtained through contacts with the Department of
4 Justice.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: I will look for someone
6 to tell me where this -- the authenticity of
7 this. You may proceed.
8 MR. BOSTWICK: May you -- your Honor, I had
9 provided to Mr. Carmell a number of these exhibits
10 in advance of the hearing asking for stipulations
11 to authenticity. I take it that some of them have
12 been stipulated to and some of them have not.
13 In an effort not to slow down the
14 hearing too much, what I propose to Mr. Carmell is
15 that if he is going to raise certain objections as
16 to the authenticity of these documents, we could
17 be subject to recall of various witnesses if
18 necessary for just authentication purposes.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let me put it this
20 way. I will assume that the documents that you
21 are bringing up to here are good faith and you
22 haven't faked them or taken them out of
23 somewhere. I assume both lawyers for both sides
24 will be doing that.
1 What I would look for as I say at the
2 end is proof that, number one, that it is
3 authentic but then how does it tie into this
4 particular proceeding.
5 So, rather than spend a great deal of
6 time talking about authenticity or so forth, I
7 presume it has some basis in fact someplace.
8 Let's proceed and if you come up later
9 and indicate to me that this is made out of hole
10 cloth, since I am not a jury, I am not going to be
11 overwhelmed by -- overprejudiced by seeing or
12 hearing some information that I can't exclude.
13 Remember at the end of this case it's
14 up to me to decide what is probative and what is
15 not and I have to live or die on what I write.
16 Obviously other persons will look that over.
17 What I am saying is we will proceed,
18 give me the information about this, and I presume
19 it's -- it has some basis. If it does not, I will
20 throw it out.
21 MR. BOSTWICK: I can give a proffer as to
22 what it's offered to show.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: No, go right ahead.
24 That's why I mentioned earlier that
1 trusteeship is a much more fluid evidentiary
2 proceeding. That's why our earlier discussions
3 about the stipulations and the estoppel are
4 important because this is a rather free-flowing
5 type of an evidentiary proceeding.
6 MR. CARMELL: But, with all due respect, it
7 doesn't flow beyond the bounds of any evidence and
8 there still is a need to authenticate a document
9 and I would agree with -- I have agreed with
10 counsel that one of two things will happen.
11 He will either at a break or whatever
12 establish for me that this is an authentic
13 document that was filed and something that
14 establishes that Mr. D'Arco signed it or he
15 will -- I have no problem with him bringing in a
16 witness out of turn or later to authenticate.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Or someone.
18 Gentlemen, I sat last fall for my 31
19 total -- 31 days in Buffalo, not in trusteeship,
20 but disciplinary proceeding. We had piles of
21 documents like this and, in fact, after it was
22 over I held some additional telephone hearings to
23 see if we could clear up the validity of some of
24 the documents and I think I eventually threw them
1 out. So there is no guarantee that since we are
2 putting them in doesn't mean that they will stay
3 in.
4 For the sake of moving this along,
5 getting evidence into the record, you may
6 proceed. I will note Mr. Carmell's objections and
7 we will deal with that as we go.
8 MR. CARMELL: Well, he hasn't offered to
9 admit it at this time. Do I understand that?
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think it's
11 preliminary.
12 MR. CARMELL: That's what I thought. We
13 haven't come to that.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Put it this way: I
15 will preliminarily admit documents that he
16 presents to me and at the end decide whether or
17 not I should discard them or not, in other words,
18 if there is some question, I will admit them
19 preliminarily.
20 MR. CARMELL: I do understand that,
21 Mr. Vaira. My point is that I have a right to
22 know what it's being offered for, what purpose is
23 this document being offered for or any other. Is
24 it to prove what? Before it comes in.
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let him have a chance.
2 MR. CARMELL: That's all I am saying.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let's give him a
4 chance. You don't have to make an offer of
5 proof. Just proceed and I will decide whether or
6 not it stays in.
7 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
8 Q. Mr. Gow, who is Alphonse D'Arco?
9 A. Alphonse D'Arco is a made member of the
10 Luchese organized crime family out of the New York
11 area. He rose from a mere member to the acting
12 boss of the family. He is now in the witness
13 protection program.
14 Q. Paragraphs 3 through 5 on page 3, does
15 Mr. D'Arco testify in his declaration relating to
16 a general structure and existence of organized
17 crime in the United States?
18 A. Yes. In there he states that
19 throughout his entire life he was associated with
20 people who were members or either associates of
21 the criminal organization known to him as La Cosa
22 Nostra.
23 Q. Is this information that he provides in
24 this declaration consistent with interviews your
1 office has conducted with other witnesses?
2 A. It's -- yes, it's consistent not only
3 with that, but historical information that's been
4 compiled by us and what is known to myself and my
5 investigators.
6 Q. Could you give a brief overview of the
7 structure of organized crime in the United States?
8 A. Basically the LCN, La Cosa Nostra, is a
9 nationwide criminal organization that's divided
10 into units, generally called families. Families
11 are in many respects named after the area or the
12 individual that heads that particular family.
13 Each family is headed by a boss who has
14 an underboss and an individual known as a
15 counselor or a consigliere as an adviser. From
16 there, they are divided up into crews, each crew
17 headed by a captain or a capo.
18 Q. I'm going to refer you to paragraph 10,
19 which I am looking for a page number here.
20 A. Page 7.
21 Q. Page 7. What does -- to what does
22 Mr. D'Arco refer in paragraph 10 on page 7?
23 A. In 10, in paragraph 10 he states, "The
24 LCN tries to control labor unions for a variety of
1 reasons," and then he goes on to state what those
2 reasons are.
3 Q. Is that information than consistent
4 with the information you have obtained from
5 witness interviews and public reports and the
6 like?
7 A. Yes, it is.
8 Q. I ask you to read paragraph 10 for us.
9 A. Paragraph 10 states that "The LCN tries
10 to control" --
11 MR. CARMELL: I object. If it's going to be
12 in the record, it's there.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: I don't think he needs
14 to read it. I have glanced through paragraph 10.
15 We will certainly note that paragraph 10 is what
16 you --
17 MR. BOSTWICK: What I have described it as.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: And we will look at
19 paragraph 10.
20 MR. BOSTWICK: That's the purpose of that
21 document. I move for its admission.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Has this fellow,
23 Mr. D'Arco, testified -- I see you mention he is
24 in the witness protection. Has he testified in
1 any of the cases in New York, criminal cases in
2 New York, Mr. Gow?
3 THE WITNESS: I'd have to check on that. As
4 best I can recall, I believe he did testify in
5 conjunction with the Mason Tenders, but I may be
6 wrong in that.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: I am talking about
8 other criminal cases.
9 THE WITNESS: I am not aware of any others
10 sitting here.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: I will be interested in
12 knowing that if you can.
13 I will admit this document, Exhibit 1.
14 (WHEREUPON, said document,
15 previously marked GEB Attorney
16 Exhibit No. 1, for
17 identification, was offered
18 and received in evidence.)
19 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
20 Q. I'd like you to refer to Exhibit 2. Do
21 you recognize that document, Mr. Gow?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What is it?
24 A. It is a declaration of Salvatore
1 Gravano, better known as Sammy Gravano.
2 Q. And where was that document obtained?
3 A. Again, this document is -- was obtained
4 through contact with the Department of Justice
5 sources. It concerns United States bringing a
6 case against the Mason Tenders District Council.
7 Q. Is this part of the records of the
8 Inspector General's office?
9 A. Yes, it is.
10 Q. As of the time you collected this
11 document did you assure yourself that this was a
12 true and correct copy of the declaration prepared
13 for purposes of United States vs. the Mason
14 Tenders District Counsel?
15 A. I had no reason to question that based
16 on the sources that I obtained it from.
17 Q. Could you tell me the date on the back
18 of the last page?
19 A. The date on the back is, he executed it
20 on October 17th, 1994.
21 Q. Who was or is Salvatore Gravano?
22 A. He again was a member of organized
23 crime and a member of the Gambino family. He rose
24 from a member to the underboss of the family,
1 until he entered into the witness protection
2 program.
3 Q. Let me refer you to section C of this
4 declaration, Page 5, paragraphs 11 and 12. What
5 do those items refer to?
6 A. Well, paragraph C is entitled Organized
7 Control Over Labor Unions. In paragraph 11,
8 through 12, he details the Gambinos' actions, or
9 likes to control unions. Well, he states, the
10 Gambino family likes to control the unions of
11 unskilled workers such as Mason Tenders, because
12 there is no apprenticeship or special training
13 requirements to become a member in such unions.
14 As a result, members and associates of the Gambino
15 family could be placed easily into the Mason
16 Tenders' jobs, even though they generally lacked
17 training or experience in the more skilled forms
18 of construction work.
19 He goes on to state, the LCN likes to
20 have control and influence over labor unions,
21 because such control provides organized crime with
22 a power base. He says, through control over labor
23 unions, the LCN --
24 MR. CARMELL: Mr. Vaira --
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead.
2 MR. CARMELL: He is reading. Let's stop the
3 reading. If he wants to tell us what he knows,
4 not what this document says --
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: He may read it. It's
6 only a couple paragraphs. And let him put his
7 case in.
8 You may continue to read, sir, or
9 paraphrase as you are going.
10 BY THE WITNESS:
11 A. What he is doing is detailing of why
12 organized crime likes to control labor unions.
13 Again, it gets into the fact that they can exert
14 power and influence over a contractor by
15 controlling certain aspects of it. They can
16 infiltrate legitimate businesses by influencing
17 bids for contracts, etcetera, and this is what he
18 lays out.
19 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
20 Q. Let's back up and make this clear. The
21 Mason Tenders District Council is a part of LIUNA,
22 is that correct?
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. And it is a District Council in New
1 York, correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And these two declarations, Exhibit 1
4 and Exhibit 2, relates to Chicago, to -- I'm
5 sorry, to an individual in the La Cosa Nostra,
6 describing why it is that the La Cosa Nostra has
7 an interest in controlling labor unions?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. CARMELL: That's not quite a fair
10 statement. It is, the Genovese family or Gambino
11 family, as the case may be, has an interest in
12 it. And so the document says what it says. But I
13 don't believe that's a fair characterization.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: The document, you're
15 right, Mr. Carmell, says what it says. I think
16 the gist of it is they are talking about unskilled
17 labor unions, where there is no apprenticeships,
18 giving the reason why --
19 MR. CARMELL: But within the framework of the
20 families, to which these affiants have affirmed.
21 That is what I'm saying.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's correct.
23 Remember, I asked earlier, this is two New Yorkers
24 talking about a Brooklyn, a Brooklyn local or
1 Brooklyn District Council.
2 Am I correct, Mr. Bostwick? The Mason
3 Tenders District Council has been placed in court
4 receivership, am I right, sir?
5 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: And that's, that
7 number, the case is 94 CIV 6487. That's out of
8 New York. That has to do with this court case.
9 And in fact, they are right now under trusteeship,
10 right?
11 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: When I say "they," I
13 mean "it" is under trusteeship, okay.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. And I don't
15 want to engage in discussing every piece of
16 evidence and its meaning as we go along. But I do
17 think there was a misstatement there that these
18 relate totally to these families.
19 Paragraph 12 of the exhibit we are
20 looking at right now says the LCN likes to have
21 control and influence over the labor unions.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: I assume that you are
23 offering that, as indicated, as sort of a generic
24 philosophy, why organized crime would like to or
1 it leads to influence certain locals or certain
2 industries.
3 MR. BOSTWICK: Precisely.
4 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
5 Q. Mr. Gow, is testimony provided by Mr.
6 Gravano in these paragraphs of the declaration
7 consistent with other testimony and information
8 you have obtained regarding the motivation behind
9 the LCN's infiltration of LIUNA?
10 A. Again, yes.
11 MR. BOSTWICK: I move for admission of
12 Exhibit 2.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Admitted.
14 (WHEREUPON, said document,
15 previously marked GEB Attorney
16 Exhibit No. 2 for identification
17 was offered and received in
18 evidence as GEB Attorney
19 Exhibit No. 2.)
20 MR. CARMELL: Same objection as --
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, I give you
22 some advice. There is a fair sized body of law on
23 this subject matter, associations and organized
24 crime, in the Southern District of New York, and
1 also in the Seventh Circuit, in the Teamsters,
2 United States versus International Brotherhood of
3 Teamsters.
4 And there have been a number of cases,
5 many, maybe 100 cases involving these issues,
6 organized crime relationship, the type of evidence
7 that is admissible.
8 And I direct your attention to that.
9 That is, it is not controlling here, but it is
10 persuasive because it has gone through the court
11 system. And you have both Judge Elstner and the
12 Seventh Circuit writing on the subject.
13 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
14 Q. Mr. Gow, as part of your efforts as the
15 Inspector General of LIUNA, have you undertaken an
16 investigation of the Chicago District Council?
17 A. Yes, I have.
18 Q. Certain officers of the Chicago
19 District Council?
20 A. That's correct.
21 Q. Select affiliated locals of the Chicago
22 District Council?
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. How many locals are affiliated under
1 the umbrella of the Chicago District Council?
2 A. 21.
3 Q. How many of these affiliated locals
4 have been targeted for investigation by the
5 Inspector General's office?
6 A. Approximately seven, and the District
7 Council, including.
8 Q. Which affiliated locals have been
9 targeted?
10 A. Local 1, 2, 5, 225, 1001, 1006, 1002.
11 And I have to explain, 1002 is no longer
12 chartered.
13 But at the period of time we were
14 looking at it, and at the officers, and there is
15 many, so to speak, carryover, local 8 was involved
16 in that, while it's not part of the District
17 Council, it was part of our investigation.
18 Q. What role does the Chicago District
19 Council play with respect to the affiliated
20 locals?
21 A. Well, Chicago District Council plays
22 same role as any District Council plays, in regard
23 to its affiliates. It is a central coordinating
24 body for the affiliated locals. As such, it is
1 affiliate of the International Union.
2 District Councils come into being
3 basically in two ways. A group of locals get
4 together and decide that it's in their best
5 interests to harness their political power and
6 strength and make application to the International
7 to form the District Council.
8 Or the international on its own
9 initiative can decide it would be best to have a
10 District Council in a particular area in
11 particular circumstances, and press forward to
12 form a District Council.
13 Q. How many union members are under the
14 jurisdiction of the District Council and its
15 affiliated locals?
16 A. The most current count that I can get
17 through the per capita tax division in LIUNA
18 headquarters was 19,243.
19 Q. How many union members -- excuse me, is
20 this the total of the membership of the 21 locals?
21 A. Yes. That's the total membership of
22 the 21 locals.
23 Q. Does the Chicago District Council play
24 any role over the funds or the affiliated funds of
1 the District Council?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. What role is that?
4 A. The role is that the District Council
5 is the body that elects the labor side trustees,
6 you know, to handle these funds.
7 Q. Are there a number of funds affiliated
8 with the Chicago District Council?
9 A. Yes, pension, health, welfare and so
10 on.
11 Q. As an example, how much money is in the
12 pension fund? Have you undertaken to determine
13 that?
14 A. I believe the latest figures that I
15 have based on government records is over 900
16 million.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Does that mean that
18 the, so the individual locals, the 21 have no, no
19 funds of their own, no funds that they control?
20 It's all in the District Council?
21 THE WITNESS: To my knowledge, that's
22 correct.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: That would be pension,
24 health?
1 THE WITNESS: Health, welfare, and several
2 others.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Several others?
4 Training fund?
5 THE WITNESS: There's a training fund too.
6 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
7 Q. Back to the makeup of the Chicago
8 District Council, who makes up the actual
9 membership of the Chicago District Council?
10 A. Delegates that are elected from the
11 individual locals. The number of delegates is
12 based on the representative size of the locals,
13 and it ranges from two to seven.
14 I think 500, a local with 500 or less
15 can have two delegates a local, the highest number
16 being seven delegates.
17 Q. How are these delegates selected,
18 according to Constitution?
19 A. In accordance with LIUNA Constitution.
20 They have to meet the standards that are set forth
21 for the normal elections.
22 Q. Are the Chicago District Council and
23 affiliated locals required to memorialize position
24 and salary of officers on certain documents?
1 A. Yes. Federal law requires they do this
2 on LM2s, and also by the Constitution, that they
3 have to utilize, memorialize this in the form of
4 minutes, which have to be kept for a certain
5 period of time.
6 Q. During the course of the Inspector
7 General's investigation of the Chicago District
8 Council, and the affiliated locals that you have
9 just mentioned, had your office made efforts to
10 collect records, to establish the current and
11 historical leadership of these entities?
12 A. Yes, we have.
13 Q. Which documents are those?
14 A. Both LM2s and minutes, and also
15 documents such as the 5500s.
16 Q. How far back did you get the LM2s?
17 A. To I believe 1970.
18 Q. Where did you get them?
19 A. From the Department of Labor.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: That is a public
21 document, right? What is 5500?
22 THE WITNESS: That has to do with the funds.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: That is --
24 THE WITNESS: IRS form.
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: That is similar to LM2,
2 but for the pension fund, right?
3 THE WITNESS: (Indicating.)
4 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
5 Q. Mr. Gow, I've only brought one copy of
6 these, because they are rather bulky. I'll
7 certainly give Mr. Carmell an opportunity to take
8 a look at these. But you have exhibit behind you,
9 Exhibits 118 through 125. I'd like to just have
10 you tell us what those are.
11 A. These are a compilation of the LM2s,
12 I'm looking at Exhibit 118, which goes through the
13 year 1970 to 1980 -- 1995.
14 Q. And again, I only brought one copy of
15 these, because they are extremely bulky. Are
16 these the LM2s that you received from the
17 Department of Labor?
18 A. Well, I did not see, you know, each and
19 every one that came from Labor. We made the
20 application to the Department of Labor. They were
21 certified and authenticated by the Department of
22 Labor.
23 The clerk in my office handled this.
24 And we forwarded them to your office.
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: What years are these,
2 gentlemen?
3 THE WITNESS: 1970 to 1995.
4 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
5 Q. And that is for each of the affiliated
6 locals that you have mentioned?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Which locals are those again?
9 A. Local 1.
10 MR. CARMELL: Can we identify them by exhibit
11 number, which is Local 1?
12 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
13 Q. Why don't you start and do that with
14 118.
15 A. Okay, 118.
16 MR. BOSTWICK: Your Honor --
17 MR. CARMELL: I'm all right. I see them on
18 the list. He gave me a list, so --
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, fine.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. You want me to go through each one?
22 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
23 Q. No. Is there an authentication in the
24 front of each one of those binders from the
1 Department of Labor?
2 A. Yes. So for instance, I hereby
3 certify, and then it's signed by authentication
4 officer, Department of Justice.
5 MR. BOSTWICK: Mr. Vaira, what I would
6 propose at this time is that we can provide at a
7 break Mr. Carmell and his associates to take a
8 look at these. I don't think there is, I don't
9 anticipate any problem with the authentication of
10 these documents.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: I assume they are
12 authentic, at least for that purpose, you can move
13 on. So these are all the LM2s for every local, or
14 just the seven under investigation?
15 THE WITNESS: For those under investigation.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: That would be seven
17 locals.
18 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
19 Q. As well as the District Council?
20 A. District Council.
21 MR. BOSTWICK: I'd move those be admitted.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. They are
23 admitted.
24 (WHEREUPON, said documents,
1 previously marked GEB Attorney Exhibit
2 Nos. 118 through 125, for
3 identification, was offered and
4 received in evidence as GEB Attorney
5 Exhibits Nos. 118 through 125.)
6 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
7 Q. Can you pull Exhibits 145 and 152, Mr.
8 Gow, pull them right out of the box? Why don't we
9 go over, very briefly, each one. What is 145?
10 A. 145 is what is depicted up here, is the
11 chart of the District Council.
12 Q. That is this chart right here against
13 the wall?
14 A. That chart right there, showing the, so
15 to speak, executive positions from 1970 through
16 1995. The remainder -- yeah, I'm sorry, that is
17 exactly --
18 Q. Now, where did you, how is it that this
19 graphic representation of the leadership in the
20 Chicago District Council was made?
21 A. This is compiled basically through
22 review of the LM2s that pertain to the District
23 Council; also pulling of the officer blanks at the
24 records section at LIUNA.
1 Q. Were the minutes also minutes of the
2 Chicago District Council?
3 A. Minutes were also reviewed.
4 MR. BOSTWICK: I would move admission of 145.
5 MR. CARMELL: I need voir dire on this, Mr.
6 Vaira. You will see why if I get to ask a couple
7 questions.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. It seems, from
9 what I understand, it is a purely a graphic, a
10 graphic demonstration of what the, who has held
11 office, am I correct?
12 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. Federal rule
13 of evidence 1006 would be directly on point on
14 this, in federal proceedings; it's simply a
15 summary.
16 MR. CARMELL: Can I have a moment?
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'll give you a
18 moment. Go ahead.
19 MR. CARMELL: You have on the bottom there of
20 that exhibit select officials, field
21 representatives, or delegates. I think that they
22 should discern which is which on there, those that
23 are employees or delegates. It's delegates, Mr.
24 Vaira, that come from the local union. Those are
1 all lumped together. There is no discernment.
2 If he can't, I can discern with him who
3 is who.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: I understand what you
5 are saying. Right now, this is a piece of
6 demonstrative, purely a chart to guide us as we
7 go. If we are incorrect, you know, we will find
8 that out.
9 I take it, Mr. Bostwick, at the bottom,
10 you put different names; some of these folks may
11 be field reps, some may be delegates, some may be
12 some other officials of local unions, am I
13 correct?
14 MR. BOSTWICK: Of the Chicago, of the
15 Laborers' District Council on this chart, and then
16 on the other charts of locals; this Exhibit 145 is
17 specifically the Laborers' District Council.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
19 MR. CARMELL: Don't you want to know --
20 Mr. Vaira, we know from Mr. Gow that a delegate is
21 elected from the local union and the District
22 Council takes the delegate as they come.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's right.
24 MR. CARMELL: Wouldn't you want to know which
1 of those persons on there was an employee of the
2 District Council as opposed to being a -- just a
3 delegate who the District Council takes?
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let's do this. The top
5 within the lines are the officers. Below the line
6 is a group of names and it's going to be one of
7 the two. They are going to be a delegate, they
8 are going to be a field rep or some other
9 official. I am not so sure what other official
10 they would be.
11 When this becomes relevant, you
12 gentlemen will tell me. You take a pencil and put
13 a sign after each one. Until that happens, it's
14 not very probative. So, I will let it stand and
15 you can go on and when something, for example --
16 if someone wants to talk about Frank Demonte, you
17 can take your little pencil and whatever Frank
18 was, field rep or whatever.
19 MR. BOSTWICK: We can certainly provide that
20 over the course of the testimony.
21 In response to Mr. Carmell's concern,
22 one of the things I would state is that the
23 members of the District Council are the delegates.
24 So, it's not -- it's not irrelevant to
1 they are on a chart relating to the District
2 Council. It's not as though we are picking and
3 choosing people from locals for no reason.
4 There is a position that they hold in
5 the Chicago District Council and we would
6 certainly, as we go along, part of our proof will
7 be what positions they specifically hold.
8 For the purposes of this chart --
9 actually I have another chart that shows these
10 people's exact positions.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
12 MR. BOSTWICK: Both in the locals and in the
13 District Council and their salaries.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Right now
15 it's neither here nor there, their connection to
16 the District Council in some fashion.
17 If it becomes extremely relevant to
18 find out, I am just using Demonte just as an
19 example, if you want to -- if it is going to
20 become extremely relevant, we will find out what
21 he does. Okay.
22 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
23 Q. Mr. Gow, why don't you just briefly and
24 quickly go through each one of the exhibits and
1 simply tell us which of those exhibits relate to
2 which locals, which affiliated locals. In other
3 words, Exhibit 146.
4 A. Oh, okay.
5 Q. It's going to be 146 through 152 and as
6 you are reaching for it perhaps I can ask you a
7 question to move things along.
8 Are each one of those additional
9 exhibits, Exhibits 146 through 152, prepared in
10 the same manner that the Chicago Laborers District
11 Council chart was prepared?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. You will have to give a verbal
14 response.
15 A. I said yes. Exhibit 146 relates to
16 Local Union 1. Again, it's a chart that is
17 similar to that. Exhibit 147 relates to Local
18 Union 2; 148, Local Union 5; 149 to Local Union
19 225; Exhibit 150 to Local Union 1001 and 151 to
20 Local Union 1002.
21 Q. How about 152? I think there is one
22 more.
23 A. One more here. Exhibit 152 relates to
24 Local Union 1006.
1 MR. BOSTWICK: I'd move for admission of 145
2 through 152 at this time.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: I will admit them.
4 (WHEREUPON, said documents,
5 previously marked GEB Attorney
6 Exhibit Nos. 145 through 152, for
7 identification, were offered
8 and received in evidence.)
9 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
10 Q. Mr. Gow, let me take you back to the
11 beginning of your investigations of the Chicago
12 District Council. What day did you begin as the
13 LIUNA Inspector General?
14 A. My first day was February 1, 1995.
15 Q. How soon after this did you begin to
16 focus on LCN corruption in the Chicago District
17 Council and select affiliated locals?
18 A. By March of '95.
19 Q. So, that's a month, approximately?
20 A. Approximately a month.
21 Q. A month. How high a priority was that
22 for you at that time?
23 A. Oh, at that time it was our number one
24 priority with regard to organized crime matters.
1 Q. Has it continued to be a priority since
2 then?
3 A. Yes, it has.
4 Q. What are the reasons you targeted the
5 Chicago District Council and certain affiliate
6 locals for investigation?
7 A. Well, in looking at a number of
8 documents, talking to law enforcement sources,
9 contact with the individuals that I hired to work
10 in this area, all indicated that this was a --
11 there was a problem here. There was infiltration
12 by organized crime into the affiliates and the
13 District Council.
14 Q. Did you at some point in time receive a
15 complaint, draft civil RICO Complaint from the
16 Department of Justice?
17 A. Yes. I had a copy of the draft civil
18 RICO Complaint.
19 Q. Did that document identify certain
20 individuals from the Chicago area that the
21 Government believed were involved in the La Cosa
22 Nostra?
23 A. Yes, it did.
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: I don't need to know
1 what the Government thought about it or what sort
2 of probable cause you have. You're here. So, I
3 don't need to hear that unless it's particularly
4 relevant to what all the United States Government
5 thought about this.
6 Our proof is what our proof is. You
7 don't have to convince me that you had to get
8 here. You're here. So you can go on.
9 MR. BOSTWICK: Okay.
10 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
11 Q. Did you review at any point in time
12 Congressional committee reports relating to
13 organized crime in Chicago?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Let me refer you to Exhibit No. 5,
16 which is a white binder. I ask you to look at the
17 first page behind the first tab. Do you recognize
18 this document?
19 A. Yes, I do.
20 Q. What is this document?
21 A. It's entitled "Organized Crime in
22 Chicago." It's a hearing before the Permanent
23 Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on
24 Governmental Affairs, United States Senate. It's
1 dated March 4, 1983.
2 Q. Is this the full report of these
3 hearings?
4 A. I'm not exactly -- I don't know what
5 you have here.
6 Q. Okay. Are these not selections of
7 this --
8 A. It looks to me like they are selections
9 from the committee's report.
10 Q. Are the selections -- do you know what
11 purpose the selections have been made?
12 A. Well, it's pretty evident. The
13 selections that you have here are based on law
14 enforcement sources that served in this area and
15 had an intimate knowledge of organized crime
16 activities in the Chicago area.
17 MR. BOSTWICK: Your Honor, or Mr. Vaira, what
18 I would propose to do on this document is not go
19 through it ad nauseam. It is a public record that
20 was available to the members and officials of the
21 District Council at this time.
22 I would like to highlight a few items
23 that specifically relate to the individuals on
24 this chart through Mr. Gow.
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, I understand
2 that. You may do that. Understanding that as you
3 go, this type of evidence is -- has been admitted
4 in -- by Judge Lacey in New York on the basis of
5 that it needs corroboration from other sources.
6 So, if there is somebody up in front of
7 Congress talking about somebody being connected to
8 the mob, that doesn't make it so. That means that
9 it's some evidence that some persons have said
10 that. We will look for other corroborating
11 evidence also.
12 So, with that understanding you may go
13 forward.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. The other
15 reason to offer this is from the notice
16 perspective.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: I understand that.
18 That has been done a number of times in the
19 Teamsters litigation for notice purpose. I notice
20 this is the -- this is the old McCellum committee,
21 is that it? Permanent Subcommittee on
22 Investigations. Okay.
23 That was -- at that time it was Senator
24 Percy I think was on this, was he?
1 THE WITNESS: You're correct.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Senator Nunn. Those
3 are the two ranking Senators. For a long time
4 were stalwarts on that committee. Go ahead.
5 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
6 Q. Mr. Gow, just to clarify what it is we
7 are talking about here, let me ask you to turn to
8 the -- I guess it appears as the fourth page back
9 from the first tab. Actually marked as page 1 at
10 the bottom. Do you see that page? It says
11 "Organized Crime in Chicago" at the start.
12 It's the beginning of the hearing. You
13 just go four pages back from tab one. Opening
14 statement, Senator Roth. Do you see that?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Just in the second paragraph under the
17 opening paragraph of Senator Roth. Could you
18 simply read that. That just defines the scope of
19 this specific committee so we know what we are
20 talking about here.
21 A. All right. I think I can summarize it
22 very briefly. He states:
23 "The scope of activities involving the
24 syndicate or the mob or the outfit in
1 Chicago is truly pervasive. Organized crime
2 in Chicago touches practically everyone's
3 life or livelihood. The evidence shows that
4 tentacles of mob activity in this city reach
5 into Government, law enforcement, unions and
6 other legitimate political, social and
7 economic functions."
8 Q. Were these hearings public?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Were the reports made publicly
11 available?
12 A. To my knowledge, yes.
13 Q. Let me have you turn to the second tab
14 and ask you to identify what that is.
15 A. Second tab is prepared statement of
16 Edward D. Hegarty. Mr. Hegarty was a special
17 agent in charge of the FBI Chicago division at the
18 time. He has since retired.
19 Q. Does Mr. Hegarty in this prepared
20 statement review and identify the structure of
21 organized crime in Chicago?
22 A. He does.
23 Q. Let me just turn you to page 114, have
24 you read just the bracketed portion if you will.
1 A. Mr. Hegarty states:
2 "The Chicago LCN family continues
3 today, as it has throughout its history, to
4 obtain lucrative income from traditional
5 racketeering and vice activities. These
6 include but are not limited to loansharking,
7 extortion, gambling, prostitution and labor
8 racketeering.
9 "With respect to labor racketeering,
10 many of the activities and members of the
11 Chicago LCN member are given cover by
12 unions, thus providing a degree of respect
13 and legitimacy. It takes four vital
14 components to make up a full grown labor
15 racket, i.e., dishonest labor leaders,
16 unscrupulous employees, crooked public
17 figures and professional criminals. The
18 Chicago LCN has long recognized the
19 advantages of controlling the unions.
20 During Al "Scarface" Capone's regime nearly
21 two-thirds of all the unions were under his
22 domination. To a degree the Chicago LCN
23 continues to maintain this grip on organized
24 labor. The ultimate result has been in many
1 instances an amalgam of hoodlums, corrupt
2 unions and corrupt public officials formed
3 into an enormous power base. Not only does
4 this generate significant income for
5 organized crime, but equally as important
6 provides a high degree of insulation against
7 prosecutive interference."
8 Q. Mr. Gow, on page 119 -- let me refer
9 you to 119 through 121. I am not going to have
10 you read that. But is a specific investigation
11 and indictment referred to on those pages?
12 A. Yes. It's a case that included
13 conspiracy to bribe a U.S. Senator against Alan N.
14 Dorfman, Roy Lee Williams and others.
15 Q. On page 121 are any individuals of the
16 District Council identified --
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- as having been convicted of that
19 activity?
20 A. Yes. Two individuals, James Caporale
21 and Alfred Pilotto.
22 Q. I am going to mark these on the chart
23 as you go.
24 MR. CARMELL: I think that is a misreading of
1 what the case was. The bribing of a U.S. Senator
2 is not a LIUNA case, does not involve Caporale, as
3 I read it.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: I am familiar with that
5 case. I was not here then, but I -- was Caporale
6 in that case?
7 MR. CARMELL: No.
8 THE WITNESS: It was the Hauser case.
9 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
10 Q. Could you describe in brief detail what
11 that case was about. We are going to hear
12 evidence that is more extensive about this subject
13 matter.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: What case are we
15 talking about? Which one are we talking about?
16 THE WITNESS: Now we are talking about the
17 Hauser conspiracy. It was -- had to do with
18 kickbacks to obtain health care and life insurance
19 franchises in Chicago and south Florida.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
21 MR. CARMELL: Excuse me. Is that the one
22 that starts on the bottom, Mr. Bostwick, September
23 of 1976? Which begins on the bottom of page 119.
24 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
1 MR. CARMELL: Okay.
2 MR. BOSTWICK: On the bottom of 119 and
3 through the end of 122 actually I guess. Or 123.
4 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
5 Q. Does this case specifically relate to a
6 fraud on the affiliated funds of the Chicago
7 District Council?
8 A. Yes, it does.
9 Q. Can you tell me from page 121 who --
10 the two individuals that are bracketed who
11 received convictions in this matter?
12 A. The two individuals noted here are
13 James -- as I said, James Caporale, who was the
14 secretary-treasurer, of the District Council I
15 believe at the time, and Alfred J. Pilotto, who is
16 president of Local 5 and vice president of the
17 District Council. This is special international
18 rep to the international union.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Am I correct,
20 gentlemen, the case you are talking about then
21 started when there was a search warrant executed
22 on the consultants and administrators, which was
23 the group that administered the pension funds or
24 the funds of the District Council or some LIUNA
1 entity, right?
2 MR. BOSTWICK: They had contracts with the
3 Chicago District Council. We will hear more
4 detailed evidence on the substance of this case.
5 For the purposes now, I simply want to
6 establish, as I believe through Mr. Gow, that
7 the -- these two individuals who are officers of
8 the Chicago District Council were convicted of
9 fraud on funds that were affiliated with the
10 Chicago District Council.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: But that case occurred
12 in Florida, am I correct?
13 THE WITNESS: Yes.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: Tried.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: The case was tried in
16 Florida. Some of the funds were up here in
17 Chicago and then that case -- the investigation
18 continued and later on a whole slew of individuals
19 were tried down in I think Florida. At least
20 these two, Caporale and Pilotto, were convicted.
21 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: That is the
23 connection. Now, that is not the case that you
24 referred to when you first opened this.
1 THE WITNESS: No.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Of --
3 THE WITNESS: Dorfman.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Dorfman case.
5 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. I mistook
6 Mr. Gow. I think we were reading from the wrong
7 page.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Dorfman case was --
9 MR. BOSTWICK: Different.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: -- A Teamster matter.
11 It was much more involved. I think it was tried
12 here in Chicago some other time. Just so we don't
13 get confused about that. I am not confused about
14 it. I understand the difference and I am not
15 associating this with the Dorfman case at all.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Go ahead.
17 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
18 Q. On page -- why don't you go back to the
19 or the first page of the next tab, a statement by
20 Roemer.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Page 157?
23 A. Right.
24 Q. Who is William Roemer?
1 A. William F. Roemer, Jr. was a special
2 agent with the FBI. He was assigned to the
3 Chicago division for a number of years and worked
4 on specialized organized crime matters,
5 subsequently transferred to the Phoenix division
6 and worked for me down there when I was assistant
7 in charge of that office. He has since passed
8 away.
9 Q. Is it fair to say -- I don't want you
10 to refer to this in its entirety, but is it fair
11 to characterize this testimony as an overview of
12 the history of organized crime in Chicago and the
13 current state of organized crime in Chicago as
14 understood by Mr. Roemer?
15 A. That's correct. He has two sections to
16 his prepared statement and they are as you've
17 said.
18 Q. There is one last tab in this exhibit.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Is there anything in
20 particular that you would like us to look at in
21 Roemer's statement or is it just there for
22 background?
23 MR. BOSTWICK: I have -- as part of -- let me
24 do this by asking him a question.
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. You may lead.
2 You may direct him to something. Don't feel
3 constrained.
4 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
5 Q. Mr. Gow, is the entire prepared
6 statement by Mr. Roemer relevant to establishing
7 who outfit members are in Chicago during the early
8 1980s?
9 A. Yes, it is.
10 Q. Does Mr. Roemer set forth these
11 individuals in a chart form?
12 A. Yes, he does.
13 Q. And that's on page 186 of his prepared
14 statement?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. We were unable to get a very good copy
17 of this chart, but we did try to blow it up a
18 little bit and it appears in the back of the
19 binder behind the tab labeled "Chart." Do you see
20 that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you see that?
23 Let's go to the second page of that and
24 this is again a graphic representation of
1 Mr. Roemer's testimony or his prepared statement
2 to the committee?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you see the highlighted individuals?
5 A. I do.
6 Q. Could you read off -- well, first, do
7 any of those individuals have connections with the
8 Chicago District Council?
9 A. Several of them do.
10 Q. Could you read off the highlighted
11 individuals.
12 A. As best I can. Vincent Solano, Frank
13 Caruso.
14 Q. A little slower, please.
15 A. Vincent A. Solano.
16 Q. Right.
17 A. Frank Caruso.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. Dominick Palermo.
20 Q. All right.
21 A. Frank DeMania. Am I reading that
22 correct?
23 Q. DeMonte?
24 A. DeMonte.
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: You have trouble with
2 Italian names, Mr. Gow.
3 THE WITNESS: I do.
4 MR. BOSTWICK: It's also a function of this
5 chart. It was very difficult to make a copy of
6 this chart.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
8 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
9 Q. Do you see the other individual there,
10 Sal Gruttadauro?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Is it fair to say that as of 1983 these
13 individuals that I have circled up here on Exhibit
14 145, these are individuals that were identified in
15 the 1983 hearing for the Permanent Subcommittee on
16 Investigations as having involvement directly with
17 organized crime?
18 A. That's correct.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: So in context, the
20 information went all into this public hearing in
21 1983, am I correct?
22 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
23 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
24 Q. Did any of these officials serve on the
1 Chicago District Council after 1983?
2 A. Well, as you have on your chart there,
3 yes.
4 Q. Let's just refer to the officials
5 because we have the graphics here.
6 MR. CARMELL: Excuse me.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, sir.
8 MR. CARMELL: We have as I see it on this
9 chart, we have two Frank Caruso's. We have a
10 Frank Caruso, a Frank Michael "Mike" Caruso. And
11 which one are we talking about on 145?
12 MR. BOSTWICK: I'm sorry. The highlighted
13 individual, Frank Michael Caruso.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Is that any
15 relationship with 145 here?
16 MR. BOSTWICK: Yes, that is this individual
17 here. Sergeant at Arms. I'm sorry. You are
18 right. We did highlight one too many.
19 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
20 Q. Did any of these -- let's just talk
21 about the officials on Exhibit 145 on this blowup,
22 Mr. Gow.
23 Did any of these officials serve on the
24 Chicago District Council after the 1983 hearing?
1 A. Yes. The two that you have circled
2 there, James Caporale and Frank Caruso, Sergeant
3 at Arms.
4 Q. In fact, does Mr. Caporale attain the
5 top status as business manager after this hearing?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Or at least I should say, be more
8 accurate on that, serve as business manager after?
9 A. Serve.
10 Q. Let me refer you to another item you
11 mentioned earlier, which is the President's
12 Commission on Organized Crime. I believe you
13 mentioned that.
14 Do you know when that occurred, the
15 President's Commission on Organized Crime hearing
16 in Florida?
17 A. I believe that was 1985, 1986.
18 Q. Did they take testimony in that --
19 A. Oh, yes.
20 Q. -- effort?
21 Prepare a report?
22 A. Yes.
23 MR. BOSTWICK: Exhibit 4 -- I believe I will
24 move admission of Exhibit 4 and 5, but I believe
1 Mr. Carmell had stipulated to those, the form.
2 MR. CARMELL: Yes, I will stipulate to
3 authenticity.
4 MR. BOSTWICK: Right, stipulate to
5 authenticity, right?
6 (WHEREUPON, said documents,
7 previously marked GEB Attorney
8 Exhibit Nos. 4 and 5, for
9 identification, were offered
10 and received in evidence.)
11 MR. BOSTWICK: As to just the 4 and 5, is
12 that correct?
13 MR. CARMELL: Yes.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: Okay.
15 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
16 Q. As to Exhibit 4, if you refer to that,
17 Mr. Gow --
18 A. Yes. Exhibit 4 is the President's
19 Commission on Organized Crime, and it's entitled
20 Report to the President and Attorney General.
21 It's captioned The Edge, Organized Crime, Business
22 and Labor Unions.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, you should
24 know, I think everybody else knows, that I was the
1 first executive director of the President's
2 Commission on Organized Crime, served for only two
3 months.
4 And the only thing I did was rent
5 office space, and begin to, begin to put personnel
6 together. But that came through at the end, so
7 you don't see my name on there. But you will know
8 that I was the first executive director before
9 there was any staff. I left before any staff
10 arrived.
11 MR. CARMELL: I did know that you were there,
12 too short a time and did too little for me to
13 raise it.
14 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
15 Q. Mr. Gow, let me refer you to Page 2 of
16 the summary, which is behind the first tab.
17 Just so we all know what we are talking
18 about here, could you read that paragraph that is
19 highlighted which sets forth the scope of that?
20 A. It states that this is the second
21 report of President's Commission on Organized
22 Crime, examines the problems of labor and
23 management racketeering by organized crime in the
24 United States, and provides an explanation of how
1 modern labor/management racketeering operates and
2 why it flourishes.
3 The report also describes the role of
4 the legitimate businesses in labor/management
5 racketeering schemes, and explains how organized
6 crime through domination, influence of labor
7 organizations, employers and legitimate
8 businesses, can control segments of entire
9 economic markets, and can distort the cost of
10 doing business to marketplace participants through
11 theft, extortion, bribery, price-fixing, fraud and
12 restraint.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Slow down. The
14 reporter is trying to catch every word.
15 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
16 Q. Mr. Gow, did the President's Commission
17 on Organized Crime take a special interest in the
18 affairs of the laborers' union?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. As well as the District Council and
21 affiliated entities?
22 A. That's correct.
23 Q. Let me refer you to what is the third
24 tab, which just says LIUNA; you see that?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What is this section?
3 A. It's section 6. It's entitled, The
4 Laborers' International Union of North American
5 (LIUNA) A Case Waiting To Be Made.
6 Q. Is that a separate portion of this
7 report?
8 A. Section 6, yes.
9 Q. Okay. Let me have you turn to Page 2
10 of that. And I'd like for you to read that for
11 us, the conclusion.
12 A. One of LIUNA's vice-presidents is John
13 Serpico. Serpico is also president of LIUNA Local
14 8 in Chicago. In testimony before the Commission
15 in 1985, Serpico admitted that he is a friend or
16 personal acquaintance of virtually every important
17 organized crime leader in Chicago. These include
18 Tony Accardo, the boss of bosses in the Chicago
19 La Cosa Nostra, Joseph Aiuppa, and Jackie Cerone,
20 the LCN's principal underbosses to Accardo.
21 Serpico also knows several LCN territorial bosses,
22 who report to Aiuppa and Cerone, including Vince
23 Solano.
24 Q. Let me stop you there. Does Vincent
1 Solano have relationship on the Chicago District
2 Council?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Let me circle that up here. Continue.
5 A. Including Vincent Solano, president of
6 LIUNA Local 1, Al Pilotto, formerly president of
7 LIUNA Local 5, and Joseph Ferriola, who Serpico
8 stated was a close personal friend.
9 MR. CARMELL: Mr. Hearing Officer, what is
10 the relevance of John Serpico, whose local is not
11 participant in this Chicago District Council?
12 He is not an officer, never been an
13 officer or delegate, with respect to who he knew.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: We will, we intend to prove
15 that he has association with these individuals on
16 the Chicago outfit side of things.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell has a
18 point. And we will look for you to connect this
19 up.
20 I'm aware of Mr. Serpico, and the prior
21 litigation in this union chair, and we will
22 proceed, see how you solidify them.
23 May I ask you a question? Gentlemen,
24 we have been at it here for almost two hours. I
1 think the reporters might need a break, and just
2 other folks might need a break. So I suggest we
3 take about a good ten, twelve minutes here, 15
4 minutes, to regroup.
5 MR. BOSTWICK: Fine.
6 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.)
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, Mr. Bostwick. Go
8 right ahead.
9 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
10 Q. Mr. Gow, I think when we left off, we
11 were referring to Exhibit 4, which is a select
12 portion of the President's Commission on Organized
13 Crime, their report. And we were on tab 3.
14 We had just read the second page of
15 that report, which was noted to me that wasn't
16 actually Page 2, but it is the second page in this
17 document, right?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. Let me take you to the fourth page
20 behind that tab, which starts, The Locals. You
21 see that?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Let me -- that is not a long passage.
24 Why don't you just simply read what is bracketed.
1 I'm going to do what I just did before, which is
2 highlight the individuals on this Exhibit 145.
3 A. This portion is entitled The Locals.
4 In the first paragraph, as Serpico's Local 8
5 illustrates, organized crime's influence over
6 LIUNA is most extensive at the local level. This
7 control is particularly concentrated in large
8 cities such as Chicago, Cleveland, St. Louis and
9 New York, as well as smaller cities, such as in
10 New Jersey.
11 The best documented examples are
12 influenced locals in the Chicago region. Again,
13 the degree of control is relative to the number of
14 union offices filled by LCN members or their
15 relatives. For example, LIUNA Local 1 in Chicago
16 provides a safe haven for known members and
17 leaders of the Chicago La Cosa Nostra. The
18 president of the Local 1 is Vincent Solano, a
19 territorial boss of the LCN outfit on the north
20 side of Chicago. Ken Eto, an LCN associate, knew
21 Solano for many years and reported to him for
22 almost a decade, and described Solano's operation
23 and the territory he controls in testimony before
24 the Commission.
1 Q. Why don't you skip right to the next
2 page, and read the bracketed mark.
3 A. LIUNA Local 1 vice-president is
4 Salvatore Gruttadauro.
5 Q. I'm going to stop you right there.
6 Does he have a relationship with the Chicago
7 Laborers' District Council?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. All right.
10 A. LIUNA Local 1 vice-president is
11 Salvatore Gruttadauro. The recording secretary is
12 Frank "Babe" Demonte.
13 Q. I'm also circling Mr. Demonte on the
14 Chicago Laborers' District Council chart.
15 A. Both individuals are members of the LCN
16 whom Eto stated directed groups of criminals,
17 soldiers and associates.
18 Q. Let me have you skip down to that next
19 paragraph.
20 A. Chicago LIUNA Local 5 is another
21 influenced local union. Former special
22 International representative and local president
23 Al Pilotto, who also served as vice-president of
24 the Laborers' District Council in Chicago, is a
1 LCN territorial boss.
2 Q. Now I've marked him down already.
3 Continue.
4 A. Another LCN member who has served as a
5 union officer is Dominick Palermo, field
6 representative.
7 Q. I'm going to mark Mr. Palermo down as
8 well on Exhibit 145.
9 That's all we'll introduce from this
10 specific report at this time. But as I say, all
11 of these excerpted portions we feel are relevant
12 to the case.
13 Mr. Gow, is the report generated by the
14 President's Commission on Organized Crime publicly
15 available?
16 A. Yes, it is, or was.
17 Q. Were you also aware of some
18 Congressional hearings relating to organized crime
19 in 1988?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. I'm going to hand up what has been
22 marked as Exhibit 167. That is not on our exhibit
23 list. We have only recently made copies of this.
24 I can give out -- do you have one up there?
1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. Okay. Let me just give out -- now,
3 this Exhibit 167, what is that?
4 A. It's entitled Hearings Before the
5 Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations of the
6 Committee on Governmental Affairs, United States
7 Senate. And it's captioned at the top, Organized
8 Crime, 25 Years After Valachi.
9 And it's dated April 11th, 15th, 21st,
10 22nd, 29th, 1988.
11 Q. Who put this exhibit together?
12 A. I put this together.
13 Q. Where does it come from?
14 A. It comes from the record of the
15 hearings, which I have a personal copy of.
16 Q. Is this the entire record of the entire
17 hearing?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Why are the selections -- why did you
20 select the portions that you did?
21 A. These portions have, in some manner,
22 touch upon organized crime and its influence in
23 the Chicago area.
24 Q. The only thing I want to direct your
1 specific attention to for the purposes of this
2 testimony today is the last page of that exhibit.
3 And this is a poorly copied chart. But can you
4 describe for us exactly what that is?
5 A. Yes. It's a depiction of the chart
6 that's entitled the Chicago Hierarchy. It's
7 labeled Exhibit No. 9 for the Committee, and dated
8 1987.
9 And in there, it's, I'll have to tell
10 you, it's no better in the book.
11 MR. CARMELL: This is totally unreadable.
12 It's nobody's fault. I couldn't even decipher a
13 name or -- maybe they could reconstruct it and
14 attach to it. I will accept what you do as being
15 the persons who are on there.
16 MR. BOSTWICK: Let me try to do this through
17 Mr. Gow.
18 I believe Mr. Gow has copied the
19 original which he is holding. It is still poor,
20 but it's a lot better than the one you are
21 holding. If we can do that through Mr. Gow, he
22 has handwritten names; after review of those, you
23 know, the book, we can simply introduce that as
24 the original exhibit. I can give you copies of
1 the original.
2 Is that acceptable, Mr. Carmell?
3 MR. CARMELL: Yeah, if you can tell us where
4 you are starting, start from the top and go to the
5 left, so we can start to follow it along.
6 MR. BOSTWICK: Right. There is only five or
7 six names, and that's the entire testimony.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: I am taking a piece of
9 blank paper here, and pencil, pen; we will let Mr.
10 Gow draw squares and put names in it.
11 MR. BOSTWICK: That's perfect.
12 MR. CARMELL: That would be better.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: There is only about
14 four or five there.
15 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
16 Q. As you do that, why don't you describe
17 who they are. We will make copies of those and
18 give them to everybody by tomorrow.
19 A. The chart depicts in the center, is a
20 picture of an individual who is labeled the boss,
21 and the name is Joseph Ferriola.
22 Coming down the line, showing the chain
23 of command here, you have between the capos and
24 the boss, there is a line going off to the side,
1 consigliere, and that is Anthony Accardo.
2 Then each of the bosses depicted down
3 here is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 1 is Vincent Solano,
4 Joseph Lombardo, Ernest Infelise, James LaPietra
5 and Albert Tocco.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you just draft
7 that before you leave? You can give us that.
8 BY THE WITNESS:
9 A. Can I have one -- you want me to do it
10 or --
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yeah. Have one of your
12 associates do it.
13 THE WITNESS: I'll do it.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: But the object of this
15 was to utilize the names, we are talking about
16 bosses and --
17 MR. BOSTWICK: Right.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: What was Mr. Accardo on
19 that?
20 THE WITNESS: The consigliere.
21 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
22 Q. What is the date on that chart?
23 A. Dated 1987.
24 MR. BOSTWICK: I'd move admission of that
1 exhibit. What we can do is staple Mr. Gow's
2 writings or diagram to the back of that exhibit.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Is that, that came out
4 of that, this came out of the hearing? What he is
5 drawing up is simply what is in the, was in the
6 hearing?
7 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. That was an
8 exhibit to the hearing.
9 MR. CARMELL: Your Honor, one clarification.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, sir.
11 MR. CARMELL: Joseph Lombardo, we had a
12 secretary/treasurer, Joseph Lombardo.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: I understand that.
14 MR. CARMELL: Is he on here?
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: I don't think that is
16 Joseph Lombardo. It's --
17 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
18 Q. Mr. Gow, can you answer that question
19 for us? We can get testimony on that point. Is
20 the Joseph Lombardo who is mentioned in there, to
21 your knowledge, the Joseph Lombardo on this chart,
22 the Joseph Lombardo, Jr.?
23 A. No.
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: No.
1 BY THE WITNESS:
2 A. No, he is not.
3 MR. BOSTWICK: We will handle relations and
4 others through other witnesses.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: But I'm sure that's not
6 the same --
7 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. We don't want
8 to create a misimpression.
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: You can move on, if Mr.
10 Gow can do his drafting later.
11 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
12 Q. Can you testify and chew gum at the
13 same time, as they say?
14 A. We'll give it a shot.
15 Q. As the LIUNA Inspector General, did you
16 also speak to former members of the FBI with
17 experience in organized crime, for purposes of
18 targeting the District Council, as a prior
19 investigation from the LIUNA Inspector General's
20 office?
21 A. That's correct; not only members of the
22 FBI, but Department of Labor and even had contact
23 with some State offices.
24 Q. Was the information you received
1 consistent with the information you reviewed in
2 reports and the like that we have just gone over?
3 A. Yes, it was.
4 Q. How soon after you were hired as the
5 Inspector General in February of 1995 did you
6 personally participate in investigation of the
7 Chicago District Council and select affiliated
8 locals?
9 A. Well, as I previously mentioned, I took
10 over this position February 1, 1995. And
11 thereafter, in putting together our office and
12 investigative team, it was in March that we put,
13 so to speak, an investigative plan together to
14 come into the area.
15 And I came to town with several
16 investigators on, from March 26th of 1995.
17 Q. All right. What was the purpose of
18 your coming to town?
19 A. It was to initiate our investigation
20 into the selected locals and the District
21 Council. It was also to coordinate not only
22 initial investigations, but to coordinate audits
23 of these selected locals.
24 Q. Did you speak with anybody in Chicago
1 about this project that related to the District
2 Council in any way?
3 A. Well, I had a couple of conversations
4 but not in great depth, and I have to explain that
5 a little bit because when I initially came to town
6 I met with the regional manager, Terry Healey.
7 Subsequent to that, on the following
8 day, when we were attempting to institute our
9 investigation or contacts with the people that we
10 had identified for interview, I was basically put
11 off by an attorney by the name of Hugh Arnold who
12 in my recall was representing the District Council
13 and these individual locals.
14 And there was the question of
15 representation by -- what representation the
16 individuals that we wanted to interview were --
17 could have and should have, why they wanted to be
18 interviewed, what we were doing, et cetera, these
19 types of questions.
20 Q. What was told to Mr. Arnold about the
21 purpose?
22 A. I gave him a very I would say brief
23 interview of why we were there and the types of
24 questions we would be asking these individuals.
1 He subsequently made available I
2 believe it was on the 27th two individuals who we
3 interviewed out at the regional manager's office,
4 and I really don't recall their names right now.
5 Following that, there was a series of
6 interviews that were conducted that extended on
7 for a couple of weeks.
8 Q. During the course of this trip did you
9 receive a personal threat?
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. Can I have you turn to Exhibit -- well,
12 first let me ask you simply to tell the
13 independent hearing officer and the delegates the
14 nature of that threat.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Just briefly outline
16 where we are going with this particular
17 conversation about Mr. Gow and his threat.
18 MR. BOSTWICK: Establishing a foundation for
19 who may have made the threat and why.
20 MR. CARMELL: Well, if he can't identify
21 the -- I don't know what it's going to be; but if
22 he can't identify the speaker, then I don't think
23 this comes in, as free flowing as we may be.
24 MR. BOSTWICK: Maybe I can ask a foundational
1 question that would help you out.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: I am just trying to put
3 this into perspective here. Mr. Gow is out here
4 conducting an investigation. Somebody gave him a
5 phone call, am I right? Is it something like
6 that?
7 THE WITNESS: Yes, it was a message that was
8 left on the phone when I was not present at the
9 time.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, let's see.
11 MR. CARMELL: A message left -- a message
12 left on the voice mail in his hotel, unidentified,
13 and at that point I really --
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let's do this.
15 MR. CARMELL: Strenuously object to it coming
16 in for whatever it may be. That has gone too far.
17 MR. BOSTWICK: I think to have this
18 discussion prior to hearing Mr. Gow lay a full
19 foundation of it is a little bit premature.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: I will tell you what we
21 will do. Let's do this with this threat even
22 though a lot of evidence can come into a
23 trusteeship.
24 Why don't you gentlemen do this. We
1 will move past this and at the break I would ask
2 you to take the reporter and make a full
3 transcript of what you are going to ask him.
4 MR. BOSTWICK: Of the questions I am going.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Questions you are going
6 to ask him and his answers, just put it on and
7 after you gentlemen can see it, you can tell me
8 about it and I may like to hear it.
9 Right now I am going to bypass it and
10 at the break or sometime you just take the
11 reporter aside and make a portion of it and I will
12 decide whether I should hear it or not after I
13 hear from both of you.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: In other words, I will
15 actually take the testimony from the reporter
16 and --
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Just take the reporter
18 up here in the corner and sit down and ask
19 questions and after that, we will hear what it is
20 and you gentlemen can explain to me.
21 As I say, I am not a jury and I am not
22 going to be influenced, overwhelmed by something
23 that comes in about threats. In these types of
24 investigations threats do kind of float around.
I
1 am looking at the record and we will see how
2 probative it might be.
3 MR. CARMELL: You have placed the cart before
4 the horse because by putting it in the record,
5 whatever you may say about it, by taking it -- the
6 transcript and saying I've read it and I am not
7 going to let it in, it's in.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: I am going to hear from
9 you first before we decide that we even put it in.
10 MR. CARMELL: Mr. Vaira, somebody has to lay
11 a foundation for a conversation. I suggest that
12 we first say -- get into the record what
13 foundation he has concerning this.
14 Came back to his hotel or whatever it
15 is, picked up the machine, heard such and such and
16 before he testifies, then say whether there is any
17 foundation at that point for his statement -- for
18 the supposed conversation.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Here is what we will
20 do. Certainly he can lay the foundation and you
21 gentlemen go and put it on the record after we are
22 done.
23 Yes, you should put the foundation. I
24 didn't mean to cut you off. Go ahead.
1 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
2 Q. Mr. Gow, why don't you tell us about
3 how you -- the background of how you received this
4 threat?
5 A. Well, I think the background of it is
6 that, as I mentioned, that I had arrived in town
7 on late afternoon of the 26th. I had not
8 initiated any of the investigation. I had had a
9 meeting with Mr. Healey and out at his place. He
10 drove me to the hotel.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Who is Mr. Healey?
12 THE WITNESS: The regional manager.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Regional manager of
14 LIUNA here.
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: Whatever district it
17 was in.
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: All right.
20 BY THE WITNESS:
21 A. Following that, the following day is
22 when we initiated our investigation. I had a
23 meeting with the investigators.
24 Q. Excuse me. Your investigation of what?
1 A. Of the District Council and of the
2 selected locals and we had a meeting with the
3 investigators. We met with the audit staff. I
4 had my conversations with Mr. Arnold, which, you
5 know, were basically somewhat acrimonious.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Arnold told you
7 that he was representing the District Council.
8 THE WITNESS: As best I can recall, District
9 Council and the selected locals.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
11 BY THE WITNESS:
12 A. Following that, we did not gain access
13 to any individuals that day. In fact, I had to go
14 back to the International. When I say go back,
15 not physically, but to my office back there, and
16 have a letter drawn up again that was quite
17 pointed, directed to the individuals out here that
18 their failure to comply with the interviews and
19 what ramifications that might have.
20 It was that night after returning from
21 dinner that this phone message was on my machine.
22 You know, having been almost 30 years
23 in law enforcement and then also spending five
24 years in the U.S. Marine Corps where I had acted
1 as a brig officer and had received threats before,
2 this to me --
3 MR. CARMELL: Objection. Now we should stop,
4 Mr. Vaira, because we have gotten beyond the
5 foundation.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: He can describe it as a
7 threat.
8 MR. CARMELL: If he is going to describe what
9 he considers to be the threat and substance, we
10 have then gotten beyond the foundation.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: He is at least entitled
12 to say he considered it a threat.
13 MR. CARMELL: I don't quarrel with that, what
14 he considered it to be.
15 THE WITNESS: That's exactly what I was going
16 to do. I wasn't going to mention the content of
17 the call.
18 BY THE WITNESS:
19 A. All I was going to say, based on my
20 experience in law enforcement and experience
21 previous to that there was no doubt in my mind the
22 reason for that phone call was made by an
23 individual that was upset that I was there in town
24 that day conducting the business that I was and it
1 was meant to put a damper on my activities.
2 And I think I had -- that phone call
3 was listened to by a number of the people who
4 worked with me that are experienced, seasoned law
5 enforcement officers, FBI agents I have known for
6 years. Their same opinion also.
7 MR. CARMELL: Well, Mr. Hearing Officer,
8 there is no foundation for this.
9 MR. BOSTWICK: I don't see.
10 MR. CARMEL: The only foundation -- wait.
11 MR. BOSTWICK: I'm sorry. I thought you were
12 finished.
13 THE WITNESS: Judge, can I add one other
14 thing?
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, sir.
16 THE WITNESS: I will just say I am not known
17 in Chicago. I have not lived here. I have not
18 worked here. So, for someone to call me in that
19 type of a framework, in my mind, it leads right to
20 the fact of what I was doing and why I was there.
21 It was not based on any of my previous
22 investigations or anything like that.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell.
24 MR. CARMELL: We have no foundation other
1 than just his testimony that this Healey drove him
2 to the hotel, that anybody knew where he was, in
3 this telephone call, telephone message.
4 And, secondly, even if anybody else did
5 know, he can't identify who it was or where they
6 came from.
7 So, unless he wants to say --
8 testify -- and Mr. Healey is not a representative
9 of the District Council. He is described as a
10 regional manager. I would certainly doubt that he
11 is implicating Mr. Healey.
12 So, there is no foundation for this to
13 come in and I would strongly urge that you -- it
14 is not part of the Complaint. There is no
15 allegation in the Complaint that anybody there
16 made a threat unless you are going to get to that
17 generic paragraph.
18 Is that the generic paragraph?
19 MR. BOSTWICK: I will when you take a breath.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think I have heard
21 enough to at least let you gentlemen put this on
22 the record out of my presence and then I will hear
23 from you both after that.
24 MR. BOSTWICK: Mr. Vaira, may I be heard on
1 the whole point?
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, sir.
3 MR. BOSTWICK: What we are talking about here
4 is obviously organized crime. In investigations
5 of organized crime, threats are a part of that
6 environment and that world. We are going to hear
7 extensive testimony on that point. I don't see
8 how Mr. Gow could have laid a clearer foundation
9 for the introduction of this tape and for your
10 Hearing Officer's consideration of it.
11 There is no -- it can be admitted and
12 then you can consider what weight you want to give
13 it and how strong the connection is. Certainly in
14 Mr. Gow's mind there is absolutely no equivocation
15 as to why he received this message at this time.
16 It relates specifically to what he was
17 doing. It relates to the pattern that we have
18 already established that is well known in public,
19 and to not allow it I think is bordering on
20 travesty.
21 In addition, he has mentioned that we
22 have not named this in the Complaint. This is a
23 specific allegation in the Complaint. I can't
24 refer the -- recall the paragraph. It's either 19
1 or 20. But this is part of the operations of the
2 Outfit as they attempt to secure and maintain
3 their power over the Chicago District Council and
4 its affiliated entities.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, we will
6 do -- you have had enough foundation certainly to
7 make it clear that the observer and experienced
8 law enforcement officer that makes his perception
9 of a credible -- let's put it on the record out of
10 my presence and we will make a decision.
11 As I say, at the end of this case we
12 are going to decide what goes in and what does
13 not.
14 This particular one, because there may
15 be some difficulty connecting it, I will have to
16 decide that. But you have made your record. We
17 will hear it. It won't take any more than about
18 three minutes to put this on the record out of my
19 presence.
20 MR. CARMELL: Can I have the opportunity
21 outside of your presence to cross-examine him
22 concerning --
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: I assume you will do
24 that.
1 MR. CARMELL: Well, not the content. But the
2 foundation of it.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, I assume you can
4 do that.
5 MR. CARMELL: Maybe the best way to do it is
6 that we could take a break and empty this room and
7 then we wouldn't have to go hide in the corner.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Of course. Or just
9 before we start back.
10 MR. CARMELL: Before you start back again
11 after lunch.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, let us not
13 make this some major suppression hearing. You
14 have about five minutes to do it.
15 MR. BOSTWICK: Perhaps for clarification sake
16 we should simply lay a quick foundation that the
17 documents and the tapes are what they are. In
18 other words, we don't have to tell the audience if
19 that is what the concern is.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's fine.
21 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
22 Q. Mr. Gow, without referring to this
23 content of the tape, the content of the
24 transcript, let me refer you to Exhibit 58.
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: I presume that's the
2 tape recording.
3 MR. BOSTWICK: That's actually the
4 transcript.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: The transcript of the
6 tape. That's fine. You don't have to go through
7 that. That's fine. We will accept that.
8 MR. BOSTWICK: Will you accept that this is a
9 true and correct copy of the tape and the
10 transcript? Exhibit 58-A and B.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: I will accept your
12 assurance of that. That's fine.
13 MR. BOSTWICK: Then I am finished with this.
14 I have no further questions.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, Mr. Gow. Thank
16 you.
17 MR. BOSTWICK: I should say at this time I
18 have no further questions.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead, sir.
20 CROSS-EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. CARMELL:
22 Q. Mr. Gow, who appointed you to the
23 position of Inspector General of LIUNA?
24 A. I was first contacted by Brendan
1 Sullivan in Washington, D.C. and asked if I would
2 be interested in assuming this position. I --
3 Q. Were you aware at the time that Brendan
4 Sullivan was Arthur Coia's personal attorney?
5 A. At my first contact, no, I was not. I
6 later learned that.
7 Q. And the Arthur Coia I'm speaking about
8 is Arthur A. Coia who was then and is now the
9 general president of LIUNA?
10 A. That's right.
11 Q. So we are understanding that?
12 A. Right.
13 Q. And it was Arthur Coia and the General
14 Executive Board that appointed you as Inspector
15 General, is that correct?
16 A. The process, as I tried to explain to
17 you before, I was interviewed by Brendan Sullivan,
18 subsequently by the GEB attorney and then after
19 that I had a meeting with Mr. Coia and then
20 subsequently I assumed that the entire board
21 approved my appointment.
22 Q. During the course of your duties as
23 Inspector General you have issued reports which
24 have been published to the membership, is that
1 correct?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. And were those reports published in the
4 Laborer magazine?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. Now, do you recall in the report that
7 appeared in March and April of 1995 making this
8 statement:
9 "In keeping with the bold and
10 necessary mandate of January 18, 1995 by
11 LIUNA General President Arthur A. Coia and
12 the General Executive Board, the Office of
13 Inspector General was created"?
14 Do you recall that statement?
15 A. I really don't recall it, no.
16 Q. Do you recall making this statement:
17 "On February 1, 1995 the General
18 President and the General Executive Board
19 hired W. Douglas Gow, a recently retired
20 senior Federal Bureau of Investigation
21 official," et cetera, "to open the Office of
22 Inspector General"?
23 A. I don't dispute that.
24 Q. Was there any particular reason why
1 you -- strike that.
2 You are aware, have become aware that
3 the General Executive Board is made up of the
4 general officers and the vice presidents, is that
5 correct?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. And was there any particular reason why
8 you singled out Arthur A. Coia for commendation in
9 appointing you as Inspector General?
10 A. Other than in his position as General
11 President of the union you would need deference in
12 writing to something like that.
13 In other words, let me explain.
14 Basically a lot of the things that we
15 do when we write, we write in the same vein as if
16 we -- when we wrote them when I was in the FBI and
17 when you delivered an article like that you always
18 mentioned the director.
19 Q. So that you would equate Arthur A. Coia
20 with J. Edgar Hoover in status?
21 A. No, I'm not saying that. I am not
22 saying that at all.
23 Q. But in position?
24 A. He is the president of the
1 International union.
2 Q. I see. So that throughout the report
3 you have in March/April, 1995 in Laborers,
4 whenever you are talking about LIUNA, you talk
5 about the General President and General Executive
6 Board and that's just your custom to have done
7 that, is that correct?
8 A. Yes, at that time.
9 Q. Now, you know before you were appointed
10 that your appointment had been discussed with the
11 Department of Justice?
12 A. I was told that it was done at some
13 point in time. In fact, I was brought before the
14 Department of Justice at a period after I was in
15 the position.
16 Q. Let me try and break this down
17 chronologically.
18 Who told you that the Department of
19 Justice was going to have input into your
20 appointment?
21 A. I don't know if I'd characterize it as
22 input into it --
23 MR. BOSTWICK: Let me simply put in an
24 objection at this point to relevance. I realize
1 you may want to go far afield on this, but perhaps
2 we could at least get a proffer from Mr. Carmell
3 about why this is relevant to his direct.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: I assumed in this
5 process that all these individuals who were chosen
6 had their names in some way run past the
7 Department of Justice. I suspect.
8 MR. BOSTWICK: I would certainly stipulate to
9 that.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think that -- I think
11 that the Department's aware of me. I have no idea
12 what it is or the appellate officer, how it got by
13 him. I assume. I strongly assume that the
14 Department --
15 THE WITNESS: Sure.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: -- knew who was going
17 to be on the scene, this group that's been
18 appointed. I don't think there is any secret. I
19 don't know about myself, but I understand you met
20 with the -- some individual.
21 THE WITNESS: It was subsequent as best I can
22 recall to -- it was the first meeting after I was
23 in the position that we had a meeting of all
24 the --
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, I think
2 you can be sure at least all individuals'
3 identities were known. When I say the appellate
4 officer, the GEB attorney.
5 MR. CARMELL: I appreciate that. What they
6 were known to is not what I am getting at.
7 BY MR. CARMELL:
8 Q. What I am getting at, Mr. Gow, is you
9 were aware that you could not be appointed to the
10 position of Inspector General without the approval
11 of the Department of Justice?
12 A. No, I was not aware of that at all. No
13 one ever said that the Department of Justice would
14 be the body that said I could or could not have
15 the job. That was never mentioned to me at all.
16 Q. What was --
17 A. I took it as the governing people that
18 was -- the two that I interviewed with, Bob
19 Luskin, the GEB attorney, and Brendan Sullivan,
20 were the two that were basically going to decide
21 whether I would or would not have the job.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, what I
23 think --
24 MR. CARMELL: All right.
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. What I wanted to
2 just add as a matter of relevance, there is no
3 question that the Department of Justice played
4 some role in this procedure, because there was an
5 agreement between the Department of Justice and
6 the union.
7 So, it is I assume and these
8 individuals all in fact got some sort of tacit
9 approval. The question becomes does that then so
10 disqualify them to put them into this procedure.
11 That I think is -- we are not going to
12 go into. But you may raise the fact -- I think
13 you made it -- that the Department of Justice knew
14 and approved of their positions.
15 BY MR. CARMELL:
16 Q. You met with the General Executive
17 Board attorney Robert Luskin and Brendan Sullivan
18 before your appointment, is that correct?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And when you met with Brendan Sullivan
21 were you told --
22 MR. BOSTWICK: Objection.
23 BY MR. CARMELL:
24 Q. -- who he was?
1 A. I'm sorry.
2 Q. Were you told who he was?
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: This whole history of
4 how this came about, I don't know that it's at all
5 relevant. You may point out that they have a bias
6 now because they were appointed by the Department
7 of Justice and the results of this -- I shouldn't
8 say appointed. Approved by it. There has been
9 some sort of agreement. Yes, there has been.
10 There is no question about that that
11 there is an agreement. Whether or not there is
12 organized crime in this local and has it been
13 proved, will it be proved. I think we are getting
14 somewhat far afield.
15 MR. CARMELL: I didn't ask about the
16 Department of Justice. I asked about Mr. Brendan
17 Sullivan.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Sullivan was and
19 still is Mr. Coia's personal attorney.
20 MR. CARMELL: You know, Mr. Vaira, with all
21 due respect, you have said I am going to let
22 everything in and you are jumping in in my fourth
23 question and telling me what is relevant and what
24 is not relevant.
1 I want to try my case. You may not
2 like it. You may throw it all out. As far as I
3 am concerned what I have heard so far from Mr. Gow
4 is garbage. But you are going to make that
5 decision.
6 I went through the D'Arco affidavit and
7 that crap came in and I have gone through it and I
8 want to try my case. If you don't want to let me
9 try my case, don't let me try my case.
10 I have a reason, as you will see,
11 hopefully, why these are relevant including the
12 credibility of this witness.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: So far this particular
14 witness hasn't said an awful lot that comes down
15 to credibility.
16 MR. CARMELL: He is the Inspector General and
17 if you give me an opportunity, he is the person
18 who brought this case.
19 He has testified on direct examination
20 that his purpose was to -- he had found corruption
21 and he testified that he was -- the emphasis was
22 on eradicating organized crime in LIUNA.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: I assume that. I have
24 now --
1 MR. CARMELL: Brendan Sullivan is Arthur
2 Coia's counsel. Arthur Coia, as we will show, is
3 O.C. Gow knows it. Everybody knows it. And
4 let's find out what his credibility is, whether he
5 wants to eradicate O.C.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let me put it this
7 way. This is an issue I faced in almost every one
8 of my hearings in Buffalo against this a million
9 times.
10 If Mr. Coia is under investigation or
11 if he is not, I will hear it. He is not on trial
12 in this case.
13 So, if you got any questions about
14 that, you got -- I am going to have to hear that
15 some other time.
16 MR. CARMELL: Oh, no. You are going -- if
17 you are going to cut me off with Arthur Coia, then
18 you are cutting me off from showing whether this
19 witness is credible as far as what organized crime
20 is and as to whether there are other reasons why
21 this investigation has led to this Complaint for
22 trusteeship.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: That, I have ruled upon
24 that about five other times, and in the case in
1 Buffalo. We are not even going to try it. Those
2 individuals are not here.
3 MR. CARMELL: He testified about the civil
4 RICO complaint, that he read that civil RICO
5 complaint and took action on it.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: I read that civil RICO
7 complaint. I think the civil RICO complaint is
8 off, sort of in other worlds, has no probative
9 value here.
10 Gentlemen, let us move on. I will cut
11 off this line of testimony. We are not going to
12 try a whole group of other persons. I'm going to
13 hear the testimony about this particular District
14 Council.
15 But we are not going to go into that,
16 because I have ruled upon that, and about five
17 times, in Buffalo.
18 MR. CARMELL: I'm not interested in whether
19 you ruled upon it in Buffalo.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm using it as
21 precedent, so --
22 MR. CARMELL: You may have been wrong in
23 Buffalo. Buffalo didn't get all the way --
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, let us have
1 some order back there. This is not a local
2 hearing where you can shout out. So the discourse
3 is between me and Mr. Carmell.
4 Okay. Mr. Carmell, I rule that that
5 line of questioning is just not relevant here.
6 MR. CARMELL: Well --
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: You may make an offer
8 of proof at some other time --
9 MR. CARMELL: I'm not going to make it. You
10 have told me --
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: -- if you want.
12 MR. CARMELL: -- it's not coming in.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
14 BY MR. CARMELL:
15 Q. You are subject to being removed by the
16 General Executive Board and Arthur Coia at any
17 time, is that correct?
18 A. No, I'm not. I have a no-cut
19 contract. It's, right now it extends through
20 January of this year.
21 Q. If they removed you, they would be
22 required to pay your salary, isn't that correct?
23 A. Sure.
24 Q. Yeah. But they can remove you and pay
1 you; you are like a ballplayer?
2 A. I'm not so sure they could, the way
3 it's written.
4 Q. Now, is your job as general --
5 Inspector General a full-time job?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 Q. What's your compensation?
8 A. 135,000 a year.
9 Q. Before you took on this job, what job
10 did you hold directly before you became Inspector
11 General?
12 A. I was in private consulting. Directly
13 before I took this job, I was consulting with the
14 U.S. Secret Service.
15 Q. What was your compensation then?
16 A. It was a lump sum over, for a period of
17 a job. It wasn't based on an hourly rate.
18 Q. What was the lump sum for the period?
19 A. I believe for the period it was
20 $20,000.
21 Q. Do you have any other sources of
22 compensation other than possibly a pension,
23 etcetera, while serving as Inspector General?
24 A. Some very minor.
1 Q. What kinds, minor?
2 A. I teach at the FBI Academy and receive
3 a payment for that.
4 Q. Anything else?
5 A. Other than, if you're talking about
6 interest on, you know, investments --
7 Q. No, no. I'm talking about work, jobs.
8 A. No, no. There was, early on, I had one
9 other. I had been also consulting with an
10 engineering company before I took this job. And
11 after I had this job, they paid me some
12 compensation for previous work done.
13 Q. How many persons are on your staff?
14 A. Oh, it varies. Some of the people have
15 come and gone. I have, if you're talking about my
16 staff at the office at LIUNA or total --
17 Q. No; total Inspector General staff.
18 A. Total Inspector General staff is
19 somewhere in the neighborhood, it varies between
20 45 and 50 individuals.
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Full time?
22 THE WITNESS: No, they are not full time.
23 BY MR. CARMELL:
24 Q. In the year 1996, if you know, what was
1 the total amount of money that LIUNA paid for the
2 Inspector General's services, the whole staff,
3 you, everybody else?
4 MR. BOSTWICK: I'm going to object to that.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: I don't know what the
6 relevance of it is.
7 Can you tell me the relevance of, where
8 you are going with this, Mr. Carmell? I mean, the
9 union -- he files a report; it's in the union, in
10 the union record. What relevance is it that he
11 has 45 persons working, he pays them half a
12 million dollars, or whatever?
13 MR. CARMELL: He has a financial interest in
14 his job.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: I assume; I assume
16 everybody has a financial interest in their job.
17 MR. CARMELL: His financial interest is
18 subject to the Department of Justice keeping him
19 in office.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: May or may not be.
21 MR. CARMELL: Because I have a record that
22 may go beyond you, Mr. Vaira; probably will, the
23 way I see it. And I want --
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: How can you say that,
1 Mr. Carmell? Come on. How can you say that?
2 MR. CARMELL: Because the five questions, you
3 cut me off; you talk to me about flowing and
4 running rules and liberality and all of this. And
5 you have said, hey, that's fine for one side, but
6 not for the other.
7 So I, these gray hairs don't come as
8 much from worry as they come from experience. And
9 I know, I sometimes know, what's down the road.
10 I'll do the best I can.
11 Now, having said that, am I cut off
12 from asking him his financial interest, Department
13 of Justice, the fact that he might bring a
14 prosecution based upon not the facts as he found
15 them, but somebody else told him to, or you are
16 going to lose your job?
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think what you are --
18 why don't you ask him that question.
19 MR. CARMELL: I'd like to do it the way I
20 want to. I'd like to present my case.
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'll allow you to
22 pursue that line, to find out if he will lose his
23 job if he doesn't perform.
24 BY MR. CARMELL:
1 Q. Mr. Gow, you report to the General
2 Executive Board Attorney, is that correct?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Is there anybody else you report to?
5 A. No.
6 Q. When you began in --
7 A. Let me back up a little bit, Mr.
8 Carmell, on that. We do produce a report that is
9 required by the government, on a 90-day basis.
10 And I don't produce the entire report. But I
11 provide a section of it.
12 So in effect, I guess you can say that
13 it's a, I am reporting to the Department of
14 Justice.
15 Q. Do you participate in meetings with the
16 Department of Justice concerning the progress or
17 concerning your investigations?
18 A. I do.
19 Q. Do you meet with the Department of
20 Justice concerning who should be targets of your
21 investigation?
22 A. Those discussions come up. But it's
23 never that levied in those meetings that you will
24 specifically do these things.
1 They have suggestions, and certainly
2 their wish list as far as, you know, seeing that
3 certain things are accomplished early on in the
4 investigation. In fact, they provided a, so to
5 speak, what we refer to as a wish list of targets
6 for the investigation.
7 Q. Does the Department of Justice set
8 priorities for your investigations?
9 A. Other than that wish list, as far as
10 setting priorities, they have, as I said, spoken
11 their minds at these meetings and what they deem
12 as, you know, what we should be looking at, and
13 where we should be going with regard to organized
14 crime.
15 Q. Did you attend hearings before the
16 House Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on Crime,
17 on July 24th and 25th, 1996?
18 A. I did. I don't remember the exact
19 dates, but --
20 Q. Did you know a man named John C.
21 Keeney, Deputy Assistant Attorney General?
22 A. Did I tell him?
23 Q. Did you know him then?
24 A. Oh, yes, yeah.
1 Q. Did you hear him testify?
2 A. Part of his testimony, I believe. I
3 don't know how long he was on the stand. When I
4 got there, I think he was on. I've known Mr.
5 Keeney for 20 some years.
6 Q. Did you hear Mr. Keeney testify that
7 the Department of Justice monitors the Inspector
8 General?
9 A. I don't recall that. I don't dispute
10 that. In fact, I told you we provide a report to
11 them every 90 days. So if that's not monitorship,
12 I don't know what is.
13 Q. Does the Department of Justice prod the
14 Inspector General?
15 A. At the meetings, yes, there is some
16 prodding that goes on.
17 Q. When the Department of Justice is not
18 satisfied, does it expect the Inspector General to
19 do further things?
20 A. When they are not satisfied, do they --
21 Q. With what you have been doing.
22 A. They have expressed dissatisfaction a
23 number of times. And we have simply told them
24 that the reason, you know, an individual can do so
1 many things at one time, or our priorities are
2 this; so we have had those differences of opinion.
3 Q. Does the Department of Justice
4 determine priorities in your investigations?
5 A. They try to have some input into it.
6 Q. That is not my question. If they tell
7 you that that is a priority, is it a priority?
8 A. If they tell us that a certain thing is
9 a priority, then I try to make it a priority.
10 Q. If they tell you that certain
11 individuals or entities are targets, you will
12 follow that, won't you?
13 A. I will look at it, yes.
14 Q. You will follow what they, the
15 Department of Justice says, won't you?
16 A. Within the parameters of how I can do
17 the work and what I've got going on at the time.
18 Q. Does the Department of Justice have
19 access to all of LIUNA's internal documents?
20 A. All of their --
21 Q. Yeah.
22 A. I don't know if -- through subpoena
23 power, they certainly would; if you are talking
24 about my records or all of LIUNA's records --
1 Q. All of LIUNA's records.
2 A. Well, I can't answer that except in
3 reference to my records.
4 Q. Well, let me ask you whether you agree
5 with this statement that Mr. Keeney made to
6 Congress on July 25, 1996, quote: The Department
7 of Justice has access to all of LIUNA's internal
8 documents, relating to its day-to-day operations
9 and efforts it performs, unquote. Do you remember
10 him saying that?
11 A. I don't remember him saying that,
12 but --
13 Q. Do you --
14 A. -- I don't dispute it.
15 Q. You don't dispute it?
16 A. No, I don't dispute it.
17 Q. Now, let's discuss the agreement
18 between the Department of Justice and LIUNA. You
19 are aware of that agreement?
20 A. I'm aware of it. I was not part of it
21 when the agreement was drawn up. And a lot of the
22 nuances and so forth and what was said, I have not
23 been privy to. So I don't know if I can help you
24 here.
1 Q. Let's try. I hope you can; let's try
2 and stay away from the nuances and get down to the
3 guts.
4 Under the agreement between the
5 Department of Justice and LIUNA, dated February
6 13, 1995, the Department of Justice has the
7 prerogative to end the internal process any time
8 it believes and wishes to, isn't that correct?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. And if the Department of Justice makes
11 that decision, there is a consent decree that has
12 already been signed which would be filed, is that
13 correct?
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. And if that decree is filed, its Office
16 of Inspector General ends, is that correct?
17 A. No. I was told that the Office of the
18 Inspector General would continue on after that
19 time. That is what I was told.
20 Q. Who told you that?
21 A. That was told to me by Brendan
22 Sullivan.
23 Q. And Brendan Sullivan was not from the
24 Department of Justice, was he?
1 A. No.
2 Q. Have you read the consent decree?
3 A. Originally. I really don't recall
4 parts of it right now. I've always, when
5 questions come on the consent decree that I would
6 receive there, I would refer those to Bob Luskin.
7 Q. Having read the consent decree, did you
8 find any provision in there for an Inspector
9 General?
10 A. I don't recall anything like that.
11 Q. Do you recall that there were three
12 offices that would be created; an independent
13 monitor, do you recall that name?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Investigations office?
16 A. (Indicating.)
17 Q. And an election officer?
18 A. I think that's correct.
19 Q. And are you aware whether a consent
20 decree, the investigative officer, will replace
21 the Inspector General?
22 A. I don't recall the specific language
23 that deals with that at all. I'm sorry.
24 Q. Are some of your duties to initiate and
1 conduct investigations within LIUNA?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. To remove organized crime and all other
4 criminal elements as a source of influence in the
5 affairs of LIUNA?
6 A. To attempt to, yes.
7 Q. Now, are you aware that those are the
8 functions which under the consent decree will be
9 given to the investigation officers by the
10 Department of Justice?
11 A. Again, I can't recall the specific
12 language of the consent decrees. You would have
13 to show it to me.
14 Q. If the Department of Justice would file
15 the consent decree, you as an individual, Mr. Gow,
16 would then have to be reapproved for a position,
17 is that correct?
18 A. I would, I assume so.
19 If you are trying to get to the point
20 that I'm here as, so to speak, to make another
21 career in this job, you're absolutely wrong. I
22 have said publicly before, and I've said it not
23 only to the Department of Justice, I've said it in
24 public forums, I am not here -- I'm here to do the
136
1 job that they originally hired me for.
2 I have no intentions of staying beyond
3 a certain time. I haven't said, you know, exactly
4 what that time is. I feel when, once the
5 investigations that we have begun have come to a
6 certain stance, then it's time for me to move on
7 at that time. So if the point here is that
8 everything is, I'm afraid of losing my job, I am
9 not.
10 Q. Well, Mr. Gow, you probably were a fine
11 FBI agent, but you are a lousy mindreader, because
12 you don't know what I'm thinking. So I will
13 proceed. It's not important what I think. It's
14 important what the record shows.
15 Mr. Gow, you have an ironclad -- you
16 say you have a contract. When does that contract
17 expire?
18 A. I told you, January of this year,
19 January 31st.
20 Q. And are you planning to renew that
21 contract?
22 A. I have not been asked if I want to
23 renew it.
24 Q. Do you want to renew the contract? 137
1 A. I would probably stay a while longer.
2 Q. A while will be how long?
3 A. Possibly one more year.
4 Q. Would you want at least $100,000 a
5 year?
6 MR. BOSTWICK: I have to object, your Honor.
7 A lot of this is, he is asking for speculation.
8 And I'm not sure how it relates. I'm willing to
9 listen to a lot of this, but --
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: I assume from the
11 questioning that, from that consent decree, which
12 I have read, is that if the Department of Justice
13 pulls the plug, he is out of a job.
14 MR. CARMELL: As you are.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: And who knows about me,
16 you know? I could be out of a job too. So I
17 assume if that goes, he goes.
18 Now, the question then becomes really,
19 what he is saying is that, has that, that threat
20 of, motivated him to do or say things in this
21 particular, in this particular context, which are
22 not true or exaggerated. And that's, that is your
23 issue. And I will assume he doesn't get the job;
24 they pull the plug tomorrow, he's gone. 138
1 MR. CARMELL: You have -- so I will accept
2 that. I'm through with that line of questioning.
3 You have so tied my hands in showing that, you
4 have said, Mr. Vaira, I'm here to decide Chicago
5 District Council; I agree with that. Person who
6 has testified concerning his attempts to eradicate
7 crime has indicated that certain people have
8 certain associations or work certain places.
9 Now, sauce for the goose is sauce for
10 the gander. If you really believe that, why can't
11 I go into what other violations of the EDP, to
12 which he has not any; I have a right to show that
13 with other individuals who may be similarly
14 circumstanced, he does not believe these to be EDP
15 violations. That is what we are here for, is
16 EDP.
17 Now, will I make that total connection
18 to your satisfaction? I don't know. Do I have a
19 right to show that if he says, I want to eliminate
20 from the ranks of the LIUNA, any place, any place
21 I find it, organized crime, and here is what I say
22 is organized crime, it is this connection, let's
23 use it for my sake, 1, 2 and 3, and I can show
24 that 1, 2 and 3 over here, on my left side, he 139
1 brings no charges against, that goes to the issue
2 of whether 1, 2 and 3 in fact are connections that
3 warrant violations.
4 I understand your argument. We call it
5 the speeding argument; the fact that you got
6 caught as a speeder doesn't say that everybody
7 else was speeding at 90 miles an hour. That is
8 not my purpose in it.
9 But my purpose is to get into what is
10 truthfully and what factually are matters which
11 would warrant EDP violations, now, that, or
12 violations of the Constitution, both.
13 And that's why I have a right to go
14 into other instances.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Let me address
16 it. Mr. Carmell, this individual is, you have
17 laid some foundation. He said based upon his
18 experience, some of these individuals are
19 connected to organized crime. I presume there are
20 going to be some other persons involved.
21 We will just take any, any example,
22 even though the names -- Spingola nobody has
23 talked about, but let's assume Mr. Gow said,
24 Joseph Spingola I'm convinced is a member of 140
1 organized crime, all right? The proof of this
2 case is, is that true, and is, will that be
3 corroborated by some other evidence? Is that
4 standing alone sufficient?
5 Now, whether Mr. Gow should be chasing
6 Jones, Smith and Brown who are over in Rhode
7 Island or wherever they are, and is laying down on
8 the job or not chasing them or not, is not
9 relevant.
10 All I'm saying is, do we have proof
11 that -- I'm not saying Spingola is -- just let's
12 say, do we have proof that Spingola is connected
13 to, enough to indicate that the District Council
14 has persons like him running it or whatever it
15 is.
16 Whether or not he is doing something
17 else someplace else is not of our concern. You
18 may argue that, and he is laying down on the job
19 someplace else, to protect his own business.
20 I'm only concerned with this record.
21 Do we have information that these individuals who
22 are running this particular District Council are
23 connected to organized crime? Is his statement
24 verified, corroborated by others? 141
1 And that's why I'm saying, I'm not
2 tying your hands; I'm trying this case, not
3 others.
4 MR. CARMELL: But you have ignored at least
5 one vital point, and that's Title III of
6 Landrum-Griffin, which is the trusteeship
7 provision.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm familiar with that.
9 MR. CARMELL: Which permits trusteeships only
10 for specified purposes.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's right.
12 MR. CARMELL: One of the defenses, maybe one
13 of the few defenses, is that a trusteeship has
14 been brought for an improper purpose. That's
15 clear in the law.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's right.
17 MR. CARMELL: One of the things I have a
18 right to show is whether this was brought for an
19 improper purpose.
20 I can do that only by comparisons. You
21 will make the decision as to whether, assuming,
22 let's assume that there are criteria that if it's
23 for a wrong or improper purpose, that is a total
24 defense, as I read the law, is a defense to a 142
1 Title III prosecution.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, those --
3 MR. CARMELL: And I -- let me just finish.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead.
5 MR. CARMELL: And so that is one of my
6 defenses. You are saying I can't go into it.
7 Mr. Gow was not on this stand merely
8 testifying as being a scrivener. We could have
9 put documents into evidence, Mr. Vaira, without
10 Mr. Gow. It's obvious that the Senate committee,
11 those PCOC hearings are public documents.
12 He has been put on the stand as the
13 investigative officer who has pursued this case.
14 And he is saying, here is why I've pursued it. My
15 FBI friends, informants, have told me this, this.
16 I want to eradicate organized crime. I'm here on
17 my white horse doing it. And this place, this
18 Chicago District Council has organized crime. He
19 is the witness. I have a right to test his
20 credibility as to whether he really believes
21 that.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: I don't know that he
23 really believes it. I don't know --
24 MR. CARMELL: I do, because he testified to
143
1 it. Wait. You may say it's not material. But
2 they put him on for this.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: You remember my
4 question was, look, I'm not really interested in
5 how you got here. I'm not really interested if
6 you were flying over it and looked down and
7 decided one afternoon that Chicago ought to be a
8 place you could land and come in the summertime.
9 I'm not concerned about that. I'm
10 concerned about what is the evidence before us.
11 MR. CARMELL: But I am, because I have a
12 defense that is entitled by Title III, under all
13 the court cases, and one of them is that the, that
14 this complaint has been brought for an improper
15 purpose.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: But you know what those
17 cases are. Without bringing in some legal
18 philosophical discussion, proper purpose means
19 that the International Union is trying to stifle
20 dissent. They are trying to take over. That is
21 the improper purpose.
22 MR. CARMELL: True.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: If one of the purposes
24 is that they have organized crime, they want to 144
1 siphon it out, I don't think you have that.
2 MR. CARMELL: I have a right to show their
3 legitimate activities.
4 I have the right to cross-examine
5 Mr. Gow. Mr. Gow is on cross-examination here.
6 He is their witness. He is there because I
7 believe -- I want you to reconsider so I am giving
8 as much as I can. I am not trying to hold back.
9 I am saying that this is exactly one of the
10 defenses within the purpose.
11 How do I show that? I show that
12 through comparisons. I show that through evidence
13 of what biases he may have or prejudices he may
14 have. I show it through the fact that it may not
15 have been his decision to even bring this case.
16 It may have come from another party.
17 Let's just say it came from the
18 Department of Justice. Let's say that I can
19 prove, Mr. Vaira, that he sat in the Department of
20 Justice office and said, guys, I can't bring this
21 case. There is no evidence. And they said we're
22 going to pull the pin unless you do it. Now,
23 that's relevant.
24 Do I have a smoking gun? I may have 145
1 one. But I certainly have a right to make a warm
2 gun through circumstantial evidence.
3 You are experienced and a far better
4 prosecutor than I would ever imagine, and that is
5 not strokes, and you know the difference between
6 an indirect circumstantial evidence case. There
7 aren't a lot of direct smoking guns where the guy
8 gets up and says I robbed the bank or I embezzled
9 the money, and paper and inferences and all of the
10 matters that are there are to be drawn from the
11 record.
12 Give me my opportunity to do that. You
13 have not given me any leeway and I am telling you
14 that I will tie it up. If not, you will do
15 exactly what you said you would do with
16 Mr. Bostwick. You would just take it in
17 provisionally and you will throw it out at the end
18 of the case.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. But I still
20 don't know where you are going, how much he makes
21 and I don't know how relevant that is. He makes
22 money. Maybe next year he doesn't get the
23 $100,000.
24 MR. CARMELL: The issue is now and if they 146
1 might pull the pin. You might not draw that
2 inference, but you are not allowing me to put it
3 on the record. That's the difference.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: I can't see where you
5 are going.
6 MR. CARMELL: You don't have to see where I
7 am going. You have to let me get there.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: I have to see where you
9 are going. I am saying if there is evidence of
10 organized crime these ladies and gentlemen are
11 trying to put on here and if they show -- I think
12 that goes a long way to show that there is no
13 improper motive.
14 MR. CARMELL: It may go a long way. But you
15 leave me without the opportunity to say there is
16 anything in the record which I could argue shows
17 an improper purpose. You have cut me off from it.
18 What you have left in here is Mr. Gow
19 pontificating as to what he believes is organized
20 crime, showing, reading excerpts from President's
21 Commissions on Organized Crime in 1983.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Anybody could have read
23 those.
24 MR. CARMELL: I agree with you. Anybody 147
1 could have read them. If Mr. Gow's position up
2 there is not that this is part of his
3 investigation -- he is telling us why he came to
4 Chicago and he is telling us why he has put this
5 together.
6 This case is his. He is the
7 investigator. The General Executive Board
8 attorney brings it, but I will show that this was
9 his evidence, his investigation and his case.
10 I have a right to show the length of
11 time it's taken, where it's been, where the
12 dissidents are, where free speech is being
13 trampled upon, where other people similarly
14 circumstanced are still in office and haven't been
15 touched and from that you can say when it's all
16 over with I didn't make my improper motive.
17 But you are not going to let me do it
18 and that is one of my defenses. And we would
19 spend less time if you let me go through my
20 cross-examination and get those matters in that I
21 believe are appropriate and go do what you have to
22 do as the independent hearing officer.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: What you are saying --
24 here is what I am going to do, Mr. Carmell. I am
148
1 going to deny your motion, but I am going to ask
2 you to put -- when he leaves, take some time to
3 put this on the record as a matter of proof and I
4 will reconsider it.
5 Tell me where you are going, put it
6 down, what questions you would ask, where you were
7 planning to go with it and I will tell you if I
8 think it goes to the area of the improper motive.
9 Okay. You may proceed. On some other
10 subject.
11 MR. CARMELL: I really don't find a subject
12 that doesn't seem to be improper.
13 Because you have cut me off from lots
14 of areas which are the crux of my defense, I think
15 we should take our break now, luncheon break, and
16 I will have to look through this and see where we
17 are going to go.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Here is what we will
19 do. Come back. You want an hour, Mr. Carmell.
20 After we come back -- roughly an hour. You can
21 have a little bit more, certainly.
22 You come in. The first thing you
23 gentlemen will do before we -- we will clear the
24 room and put your evidence on concerning whatever
149
1 this --
2 MR. BOSTWICK: The tape. The threat.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Then we can bring
4 everyone back in and, Mr. Carmell, you can make
5 your offer of proof in whatever form you want to
6 make it, proposed questions or outline form.
7 MR. CARMELL: I prefer to do it in questions,
8 questions that I would ask him and I would assume
9 that each one of these questions would be answered
10 in the affirmative.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. We will do
12 it that way. Okay. We will take our break now
13 and we will come back.
14 Mr. Carmell, what time do you want?
15 12:30. Quarter to 1:00?
16 MR. CARMELL: Quarter to 2:00.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm sorry. Quarter to
18 2:00.
19 (WHEREUPON, at 12:30 p.m. the
20 hearing was recessed until
21 1:45 p.m., this day, July 16, 1997.)
22
23
24 150
1 OFFICE OF THE INDEPENDENT HEARING OFFICER
2 LABORERS'INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH AMERICA
3
4 IN RE: )
5 TRUSTEESHIP PROCEEDINGS ) No. 97-30T
6 CHICAGO DISTRICT COUNCIL )
7
8
9
10 July 6, 1997
11 2:00 p.m.
12
13
14 The hearing resumed pursuant to
15 recess.
16
17 BEFORE: MR. PETER F. VAIRA, Hearing Officer
18
19
20
21
22
23
24 151
1 PRESENT:
2
3 COMEY, BOYD & LUSKIN,
4 (1025 Thomas Jefferson Street, N.W.,
5 Washington, D.C. 20007-5243), by:
6 MR. ROBERT M. THOMAS, JR.,
7 MR. DWIGHT P. BOSTWICK,
8 appeared on behalf of the GEB Attorney;
9
10 CARMELL, CHARONE, WIDMER, MATHEWS & MOSS,
11 LTD.,
12 (225 West Washington Street, Suite 1000,
13 Chicago, Illinois 60606), by:
14 MR. SHERMAN CARMELL,
15 MR. MARTIN P. BARR,
16 MS. SUZANNE M. LAW,
17 appeared on behalf of the Chicago
18 District Council of Laborers.
19
20 ALSO PRESENT:
21 MS. CHERYL MARQUARDT
22
23 REPORTED BY: MARY KAY BELCOLORE, CSR, RPR.
24 CORINNE T. MARUT, CSR, RPR. 152
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Back on the record.
2 Ladies and gentlemen, the hearing is
3 now again in session. In the meantime, I
4 reinforce the exclusionary rule at the request of
5 some members, and only the persons who are
6 permitted to be here. So we have taken care of
7 that. You gentlemen that made that objection, see
8 we carry that out.
9 Mr. Bostwick and Mr. Carmell are going
10 to proceed with an examination of Mr. Gow here on
11 a matter that I said that we would hear out of my
12 presence.
13 Gentlemen, you want me to step out?
14 MR. CARMELL: No. You are going to make a
15 ruling. We are going to hear it. Everybody will
16 know what was said. And then we will make our
17 motion at that time.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: All right.
19 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
21 Q. Mr. Gow, I just have a few questions
22 for you on this specific point. Can you pull out
23 Exhibit 58?
24 A. 158? 153
1 Q. No; 58.
2 Mr. Gow, there is technically a 58-A
3 and 58-B. The tape itself is 58-A. The document
4 is 58-B. Can you tell me what the document is,
5 58-B?
6 A. Exhibit 58-B is a memorandum from
7 myself to Bob Luskin. Subject is threatening
8 phone call to Inspector General Gow, 3/29/95 in
9 Chicago, dated June 3, 1997.
10 Q. Is there a full transcript of the tape
11 of the 58-A on that --
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. -- included in that exhibit?
14 MR. BOSTWICK: I'm simply going to ask that
15 we move introduction of 58-A and B, and we play
16 the tape.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: We will hear the tape.
18 THE WITNESS: I have the original.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: Miss Reporter, we have
20 the transcript of the tape. You can take it down
21 from there. It is short. You might have trouble
22 hearing it anyway.
23 (WHEREUPON, there was a short
24 interruption.) 154
1 MR. BOSTWICK: We are having trouble playing
2 the tape, obviously.
3 THE WITNESS: It's coming next.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
5 MR. BOSTWICK: It wasn't cued up.
6 (WHEREUPON, tape was played, as
7 follows:
8 "Douglas. You fucking piece of shit.
9 Who do you think you're fucking with? A
10 bunch of kids from Waco? I'll fuck your
11 family in the face. I'll fuck your mother in
12 the mouth. You fucking piece of shit."
13 THE WITNESS: That's it.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: I have nothing further.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, go ahead.
16 RE-CROSS EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. CARMELL:
18 Q. Beginning with the latest, which is
19 this tape, you testified you came to Chicago on
20 March 26th, 1995, is that correct?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. When did you leave Chicago?
23 A. On the 28th.
24 Q. March 28th? 155
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. I see. Now --
3 A. No, wait.
4 Q. According to -- just a moment. You
5 have a change in date?
6 A. No, I don't have to change the tape. I
7 was just trying --
8 Q. Not change the tape; change the date.
9 A. This call was made on the 29th. I left
10 the next day.
11 Q. Okay. So now you are saying you didn't
12 leave on the 28th?
13 A. Couldn't have.
14 Q. But you left on the 30th of March?
15 A. It would have to be on the 30th that I
16 left, because I left from -- I was out at the
17 regional office, out at regional office. And I
18 left the afternoon, it was the day after this
19 call.
20 Q. How do you fix the day of when you left
21 Chicago?
22 A. Just as I mentioned to you. I was, the
23 following day I checked out of the hotel; was out
24 at the International, left from the 156
1 International. I was with my deputy, Bill Rice.
2 So there was an individual with me. I believe Joe
3 Griffin was with me out at the International that
4 day.
5 Q. What time did you leave Chicago on the
6 30th of March?
7 A. Oh, it was afternoon. I can't remember
8 the exact time. It seems to me it was, as best I
9 can recall, I would think somewhere around 4 or
10 5. I'd have to go back and look at my voucher to
11 get the exact time.
12 Q. Let's find out who you -- now, you were
13 in at the Chicago Hilton and Towers; that's where
14 you were staying, is that correct?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. That's where the telephone call came
17 in, is that correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And I did not hear anything on the
20 voice mail that told us the date of the telephone
21 call. So you're fixing the date as March 29, is
22 that correct?
23 A. And I have, in addition to that, there
24 were three other people that were witness to the
157
1 phone call that can testify to the date.
2 Q. Great. Could you just answer the
3 question.
4 A. You asked me if --
5 Q. There is nothing on the voice mail that
6 tells the date as being March 29, is that correct?
7 A. I don't recall it, no. No such thing.
8 Now, the original date was picked up and has been
9 given to the FBI. It would be on there.
10 Q. Well --
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: The date -- you can
12 explain your answer. After he asked you was
13 anything on the tape, you may explain later on why
14 you think it was on the 28th.
15 The date, gentlemen -- go ahead, go
16 ahead.
17 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
18 Q. Now, let me go through persons who
19 would have known that you were at the Chicago
20 Hilton and Towers during that period of time.
21 One was this gentleman Terry Healey, is
22 that correct?
23 You're nodding. That doesn't do us any
24 good. 158
1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. And he was regional manager of LIUNA?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. The other were auditors of Thomas
5 Havey & Company, is that correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And they were representatives you had
8 hired -- I mean -- strike that.
9 Who was Thomas Havey Company?
10 A. They are an audit firm that is located
11 basically nationwide that has an expertise in
12 labor-related matters.
13 Q. And then there were -- how many of your
14 staff knew that you were at the Chicago Hilton and
15 Towers?
16 A. Well, at that time the people that
17 would have been back at my office, the agents or
18 the representatives that were with me because they
19 were all staying at the same hotel.
20 Q. Can you tell me approximately how many?
21 A. We had, let me see, four of us.
22 Q. Did you leave a number at your office
23 where you could be reached?
24 A. Yes, they had a number where I could be
159
1 reached.
2 Q. Anybody who came in and asked for that
3 number from your office could have obtained that
4 number?
5 A. Not necessarily. The office -- we
6 operate on a need-to-know principle. So I mean
7 anybody to walk in and say I need to get ahold of
8 Doug or something like that, if it was somebody
9 unknown to my people, they wouldn't have been
10 given the number.
11 Q. Now, another person who knew or another
12 entity that knew you were in Chicago is the
13 Sophisticated Traveler travel agency in
14 Providence, Rhode Island, is that correct?
15 A. That's correct. They made the
16 reservation.
17 Mr. -- in addition to that, the GEB
18 Attorney's office knew I was in Chicago at that
19 time also.
20 Q. And also -- you talked about members of
21 your staff. Just a moment.
22 Let's stay with for a moment -- did
23 Mr. Hugh Arnold know that you were staying at the
24 Chicago Hilton and Towers? 160
1 A. He talked to me there while we had our
2 meetings with the audit people. I never -- to my
3 knowledge, I never told him I was staying at the
4 hotel.
5 But that's where, you know, the
6 number -- I gave him I think my beeper number and
7 called him from the hotel and gave him a number
8 because it was a pay phone that I was talking
9 from. I never gave him the room number.
10 Q. You never told Hugh Arnold that you
11 were staying at the Chicago Hilton and Towers?
12 A. No, I don't recall mentioning to him I
13 was staying there. I called him from there and he
14 certainly knew I was calling him from there.
15 Q. Now, between March 26, 1995 and the
16 date that you had this voice mail message, had you
17 interviewed any LIUNA members?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Had you told anyone else where you were
20 staying other than the people we have gone
21 through?
22 A. The additional investigators that were
23 working with me that live in this area knew I was
24 staying there. 161
1 Q. Staying with the Sophisticated
2 Traveler, didn't you at some time recommend that
3 the LIUNA stop doing business with the
4 Sophisticated Traveler?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. And wasn't that because the husband of
7 the owner of Sophisticated Traveler had mob
8 associations?
9 A. Yes, that's correct.
10 Q. So that when did you first learn that
11 the Sophisticated Traveler was connected to the
12 mob?
13 A. That information was sometime after
14 this event occurred. I'm trying to think back
15 exactly. It was probably six months or later
16 after that investigation was completed.
17 Q. And the mob that I'm referring to is
18 the -- what has been referred to in various
19 documents as the New England family, Raymond
20 Patriarca, Jr.?
21 A. Yes, yeah.
22 Q. Did you recognize -- do you recognize
23 the voice on the voice mail?
24 A. No. 162
1 Q. To your knowledge has the FBI made any
2 arrests based upon the voice mail?
3 A. No.
4 MR. CARMELL: That's all I have on that
5 subject.
6 Mr. Vaira, what I'd like to do is two
7 things.
8 One, I'd like to move on to another
9 areas; and with respect to the areas that were our
10 colloquy, I'd like to have the opportunity to read
11 the transcript tonight, see exactly what is out
12 there.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: To make a proffer.
14 MR. CARMELL: Yes. See what the proffer of
15 proof is.
16 I presume Mr. Gow is going to be here
17 tomorrow in case it's going to be -- in case you
18 stayed with your ruling and it's going to be a
19 proffer of proof through question and answer so
20 that he may be here.
21 Am I correct? If not -- am I going to
22 hold him over?
23 THE WITNESS: I had a reservation to go out
24 tonight. 163
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Here is my question.
2 You make the proffer through questions and give me
3 what you think the answer would be.
4 MR. CARMELL: All right. I can do that now
5 or I can do that later. I think if Mr. Gow is not
6 going to be here and if the proffer that you are
7 saying I have to make is mine, I will be both
8 attorney and witness.
9 Let me finish as much as I can with
10 Mr. Gow. Let me finish Mr. Gow.
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. You are going on
12 to another subject.
13 MR. CARMELL: Well, yes, because I am not
14 going to be able to ask him these questions as I
15 understand your ruling.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
17 MR. CARMELL: All right.
18 BY MR. CARMELL:
19 Q. Mr. Gow, you have seen the witness list
20 and you know that Ron Fino is on the list?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Is that correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And is Ron Fino an adviser to you? 164
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is he a paid adviser?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How much does he receive?
5 A. He receives an hourly rate and
6 expenses.
7 Q. And what is the hourly rate based on?
8 You will pay him for what?
9 A. Pay him for the times that we are
10 debriefing him for information that he prepares
11 for us, review of previous testimony, any -- I
12 shouldn't say witnesses. Other sources that he
13 may lead us to. Any other types of information
14 that he digs up that would appear to be of value
15 that we would evaluate it.
16 Q. Do you pay -- do you pay him for time
17 testifying?
18 A. He has -- yes, he has been paid for his
19 time when he has been testifying.
20 Q. Let me break it down, if I may, sir.
21 What is Mr. Fino's hourly rate?
22 A. $75 an hour at this time.
23 Q. And when you say that he is being paid
24 to testify, is that based on an hourly rate or is
165
1 there --
2 A. No.
3 Q. Let me finish my question, sir. It may
4 help out a bit.
5 Is it on an hourly rate or a flat rate?
6 A. No, it's on an hourly rate. It's not
7 based -- it's not being paid to testify. It's
8 being paid for his time away from his other work.
9 Q. What is Mr. Fino's other work?
10 A. Well, I think we are dealing with a
11 person that is --
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: I have sustained a
13 prior objection to that in another proceeding. I
14 think in that other proceeding we described it
15 generically, did we not?
16 THE WITNESS: I wasn't there.
17 MR. CARMELL: We weren't there.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: We described it
19 generically. He described that he was in business
20 for himself.
21 BY MR. CARMELL:
22 Q. For Mr. Fino -- if Mr. Fino is called
23 as a witness here, he will be paid at an hourly
24 rate for his travel and for the time that he 166
1 testifies, is that correct?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. You have a written contract with Mr.
4 Fino?
5 A. We have a, we originally did; we have
6 not updated that. We are in the process of, you
7 know, redoing that.
8 MR. CARMELL: I'd like to have that written
9 contract, copy of that written contract, Mr.
10 Hearing Officer. If they can redact his address,
11 they can redact anything that is identified on it,
12 I would like to see what that contract is.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, is there any
14 argument that he -- we know he is getting so much
15 an hour. We know he is getting paid for travel.
16 He gets time and expenses. Is there anything else
17 in that contract of any --
18 THE WITNESS: That's it.
19 MR. CARMELL: Sir, it's not for them to tell
20 us what it is.
21 I've had the experience where I've
22 heard testimony, I've seen the provision in the
23 contract, which a particular party has forgotten
24 or considers it to be insignificant, which I 167
1 don't.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. All right.
3 MR. BOSTWICK: Perhaps this would be brought
4 out by the time, if Mr. Fino in fact does testify,
5 maybe we can readdress this issue then. I have
6 never seen a contract. And I initially would
7 object to it, but --
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: We'll get it.
9 MR. CARMELL: Perfectly fine, that if
10 anything concerning Ron Fino comes in, I know that
11 what we refer to as 302s, FBI 302s are exhibits
12 here, with Ron Fino, I do want to see those, that
13 contract, if Mr. Bostwick decides to introduce
14 anything with respect to Ron Fino.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: I take it -- I saw his
16 name on the witness list.
17 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct. His name is
18 on the witness list. If we call him, I guess we
19 can revisit this issue. I just don't think it's
20 appropriate at this time with this witness.
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: We will be replowing
22 the ground a second time. So let us move on. If
23 that issue is relevant, we will certainly take
24 that on. 168
1 BY MR. CARMELL:
2 Q. Mr. Gow, I want you to look at GEB
3 Exhibit 145. You may have on -- can you see it?
4 We do have a smaller version of it.
5 A. I can see it.
6 Q. Better man than I.
7 Now, under the rubric, selected, select
8 officials, field representatives or delegates,
9 Joseph Abate, A-B-A-T-E, what time period does he
10 fall?
11 A. He would fall in the time period of
12 1970 to 1995, in that chart.
13 Q. For the full 25 years?
14 A. Well, at some point in time in there.
15 There is another chart that addresses that. And I
16 just can't recall off the top of my head. You
17 would have to look at that other chart.
18 Q. Do you know what -- did Joseph Abate
19 during the time period hold any position other
20 than a delegate to the District Council?
21 A. Again, I'd have to refer to that
22 chart. As best I can recall, I believe he did.
23 Q. Let me try and move this along a little
24 bit. If I asked you about any of the 13 people 169
1 who are listed under that rubric, can you tell me
2 what positions they held, other than delegate?
3 A. Some I could. Others, I'd have to
4 refer to the chart.
5 Q. Why don't you tell me what persons you
6 know, the positions they held.
7 A. Well, Vince Solano is a president of, I
8 believe it was Local 1.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. DiForti was a, I believe a delegate,
11 field rep to the District Council. John Galioto
12 is an officer of, it's either 225 or 5.
13 Q. Wait, please understand my question.
14 What position did --
15 A. Of these select officials, of the reps.
16 Q. Yes, on the District Council.
17 A. Again, I'd have to refer to that
18 chart. I just, you know --
19 Q. Fine. Then we won't burden you. We
20 are not here to test your memory. We are here to
21 get the facts, if we can. If I ask you about the
22 dates of things, would you say the same thing?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. You would want to refer to the chart?
170
1 A. I'd have to refer to the chart. I
2 haven't, you know --
3 Q. Now, I want to discuss with you, as
4 you've already discussed, the structure of the
5 Chicago District Council. Now, the Chicago
6 District Council is governed by the Uniform
7 District Council Constitution, is that correct?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. Uniform District Council Constitution
10 is adopted by the convention of delegates at the
11 quadri -- "quintennial," every five years
12 convention, is that correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And the current Uniform District
15 Council Constitution was adopted at the convention
16 in 1996, is that correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And that was during the period of time
19 that you were -- that you were investigations
20 officer, is that correct?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. Did you have an opportunity to review
23 the Uniform District Council Constitution before
24 it was adopted by the delegates? 171
1 A. No.
2 Q. Did anybody ask you to?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Are you aware of any objection that was
5 raised by the General Executive Board Attorney to
6 the Uniform District Council Constitution as
7 adopted in 1996?
8 A. I can't recall any specifics. I stayed
9 out of that area.
10 Q. Getting to the structure, the members
11 of the District Council are delegates from
12 affiliated locals, is that correct?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. And the number of delegates from the
15 local is based on the number of members?
16 A. That's correct.
17 Q. The business manager of the local is a
18 delegate to the District Council by virtue of his
19 election to the office of business manager of the
20 local, is that correct?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. All the other delegates must be elected
23 as delegates in accordance with the Local Union
24 Uniform Constitution, isn't that correct? 172
1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. Now, the officers of the District
3 Council, in order to be a candidate for District
4 Council officer, you must be a delegate?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And the District Council Executive
7 Board is composed of seven members, is that
8 correct?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. And the Executive Board of the District
11 Council acts between delegates at meetings, is
12 that correct?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. Now, in your review of the Chicago
15 District Council, did you find that there were
16 minutes kept by the Executive Board?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And did you receive all of the minutes,
19 as far as you know?
20 A. As far as I can recall, yes.
21 Q. For what period of time?
22 A. Again, it would be for the period of
23 1970 to 1995.
24 Q. And the delegates are to meet once 173
1 monthly, is that correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And you have minutes of the delegates'
4 meetings of the Chicago District Council, don't
5 you?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And did they meet basically monthly?
8 A. As best I can recall, yes.
9 Q. And that a quorum of delegates for
10 action at a meeting is the majority of the locals,
11 is that correct?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. Now, from your examination of the
14 minutes, isn't it true that the Executive Board
15 minutes would be read to the delegates?
16 A. Let me make it clear that I did not
17 make an examination of the minutes. That was done
18 by other people. But you're correct in what
19 you're saying.
20 Q. And as far as you know, obviously from
21 reports from staff persons, and those minutes
22 would be put before the delegates for their
23 approval or disapproval, is that correct?
24 A. That's correct. 174
1 Q. And the finances of the District
2 Council were read to the delegates, is that
3 correct?
4 A. As best I can recall.
5 Q. And they were put to the delegates for
6 their approval or disapproval, is that correct?
7 A. Again, yes.
8 Q. Now, what, if you know, what were the
9 duties of the sergeant-at-arms in the District
10 Council?
11 A. Sergeant-of-arms is to maintain order,
12 to ensure that, so to speak, the bona fide people
13 are the ones that attend the meetings, that, you
14 know, no one that is not duly constituted is not
15 involved.
16 Q. Is the sergeant-at-arms a member of the
17 Executive Board?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Are you sure that he is a member of the
20 Executive Board?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. One moment, please.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Article 5, article 5.
24 MR. CARMELL: Yeah. 175
1 MR. BOSTWICK: Perhaps if Mr. Carmell is
2 going to ask him or quiz him on the provisions of
3 the Constitution, we can refer him to the
4 provisions of the Constitution at hand. Is that
5 what --
6 BY MR. CARMELL:
7 Q. Is it your understanding that, from the
8 local union, that the delegates other than the
9 business manager have to be elected by the
10 membership of the local union?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And the Local Union Uniform
13 Constitution sets out the procedures for
14 nominations and elections?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. Does the Uniform District Council
17 Constitution provide for the appointment to fill
18 vacancies in the Executive Board?
19 A. I believe it does.
20 Q. Do you have problems with that
21 provision?
22 A. I'm sorry, what?
23 Q. Do you have a problem with that
24 provision? 176
1 A. Do I have a problem with it?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. No.
4 Q. Is that an undemocratic provision?
5 A. No. That's a standard practice.
6 Q. The Uniform District Council
7 Constitution provides that a term of office of
8 officers is four years, does that sound familiar
9 to you?
10 A. Four years?
11 Q. Four years, for the District Council?
12 A. I believe it was three.
13 Q. Well, I can refer you to the
14 provision.
15 A. I may be wrong.
16 Q. It doesn't matter.
17 Do you find that there's anything
18 undemocratic about having that term of office,
19 four years?
20 A. No.
21 Q. One of the allegations in the complaint
22 is that there has been no opposition for elections
23 in the District Council, do you recall that?
24 A. Yes. 177
1 Q. Do you find it undemocratic for a
2 candidate to be deemed to be elected if he or she
3 is not opposed?
4 A. That's a question I don't think I can
5 answer yes or no. There's a lot of factors that
6 become determinate there, and circumstances
7 surrounding that, that appointment or the
8 unopposed election.
9 If it's truly a democratic area, where
10 there is no opposition and everything is a level
11 playing field, I have no problem with it. When
12 there are other factors, I would say I have a
13 problem with it. It's not an easy,
14 straightforward answer.
15 Q. You have given me a straightforward
16 answer. I appreciate it. Let me see if I can
17 refine it.
18 There is no per se undemocratic
19 principle that unopposed candidates are duly
20 elected?
21 A. You're correct.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, that is
23 the Constitution. It has been I think in effect
24 for a while. There have been no challenges to 178
1 that. And that may be standard procedure
2 throughout the labor movement.
3 So whether he thinks it's bad or good
4 is, that may sound nice, but the law is pretty
5 well-established.
6 MR. CARMELL: That's a very -- that is what
7 surprises me, in which one of the allegations in
8 the complaint is that uncontested nominations is a
9 basis for this trusteeship, and also the fact that
10 offices were filled by, vacant offices were filled
11 by appointment.
12 That is how I read it. I read that.
13 There may be other things to go also. But that is
14 one of them. And I just want to clarify that this
15 is not a problem as he sees it.
16 MR. BOSTWICK: Well, just to clarify --
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's what he said,
18 that is what he meant, he sees a problem or not.
19 I'm not moved by that.
20 MR. BOSTWICK: I also don't want a
21 mischaracterization of what he said. He said
22 without more, standing alone and per se, that --
23 MR. CARMELL: I tried to make that clear.
24 And it is. 179
1 BY MR. CARMELL:
2 Q. Are you aware that the uniform District
3 Council -- uniform District Council Constitution
4 does not require the election of officers of the
5 District Council by secret ballot?
6 A. I can't remember reading that in there.
7 MR. CARMELL: Well, I refer the Hearing
8 Officer --
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: I remember that.
10 That's a provision that is in there. It's not a
11 secret ballot.
12 MR. CARMELL: It doesn't have to be a secret
13 ballot.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Doesn't have to be.
15 Generally the practice throughout this union. It
16 varies. It varies, but it does not have to be.
17 MR. BOSTWICK: We are certainly willing to
18 stipulate to the provisions of the Constitution if
19 that's what we're doing here.
20 BY MR. CARMELL:
21 Q. If I could refer you to 145, so the
22 record is clear because there are circles on it,
23 the persons that Mr. Bostwick has circled have
24 been persons who have been named in documents 180
1 which we have such as the President's Commission
2 on Organized Crime, et cetera, is that correct?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. And the only officer listed from 1970
5 to the present who was within that category was
6 Alfred Pilotto who it looks like is the period
7 1975 to 1982, is that correct?
8 A. Per that chart and of the documents
9 themselves, but I think --
10 Q. That's -- I know what you don't mean to
11 do. I am just asking you because that's what is
12 circled here.
13 From the documents which you
14 testified --
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. -- about and that's all that was given
17 to you. There may be more. There may be others.
18 But what you testified to, only Alfred
19 Pilotto was one of the persons.
20 And within the category of select
21 officials, field representatives or delegates were
22 four, Frank DeMonte, Salvatore Gruttadauro,
23 Dominick Palermo and Vincent Solano, is that
24 correct? 181
1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. Let me try and tie GEB Exhibit 163 to
3 Exhibit 145.
4 We haven't discussed 163 yet. I'm
5 sorry. That hasn't been discussed yet as far as I
6 know.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: That's correct.
8 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
9 MR. CARMELL: No, I am not going to.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: While it looks like
11 some other chart that you saw on paper this
12 morning. That's the confusing part about that.
13 MR. CARMELL: Yes, let me just look at those
14 for a moment.
15 BY MR. CARMELL:
16 Q. I'm going to do just one local union.
17 I am going to do GEB Exhibit 146, which would be
18 typical of all the other locals so I can attempt,
19 sir, to tie that into GEB 145.
20 Now, on 146 --
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: That would be Local
22 Union 1.
23 MR. CARMELL: Yes, Local 1.
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: Local 1, okay. 182
1 BY MR. CARMELL:
2 Q. From 1970 to 1992 Vincent Solano,
3 although we don't know for the full period of time
4 because you have a note there, but at least for a
5 period of time Vincent Solano was the business
6 manager of Local 1, is that correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And as we already discussed by virtue
9 of his being the business manager of Local 1, he
10 became a delegate to the District Council?
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. And to the extent that any of the other
13 persons listed on Local -- on Exhibit 146 were
14 delegates, they would have had to have been
15 elected by the local union membership, is that
16 correct?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. Now, you testified concerning seven
19 locals who were targets of your investigation, and
20 I am going to skip 1002 because they're out. We
21 have an LN-13 on that.
22 That is Local 1, Local 2, Local 5,
23 Local 225, Local 1001 and Local 1006, is that
24 correct? 183
1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. How many delegates do those seven
3 locals have at the District Council at the present
4 time?
5 A. At a minimum 14. I would have to go
6 and check the exact membership to tell you the
7 exact number.
8 Q. And at the present time how many total
9 delegates are there of the 21 locals in the
10 Chicago District Council?
11 A. It's somewhere in the neighborhood I
12 think of 70.
13 Q. If I told you 90, would that surprise
14 you?
15 A. No. I think that's correct -- I'm in
16 the ballpark, though, right?
17 Q. You are. Percentage here, a percentage
18 there.
19 Now, there are approximately 19 -- not
20 approximately -- you testified 19,243 members of
21 the 21 locals, according to the information you
22 had received --
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. -- from the International. 184
1 How many members came from the seven
2 locals?
3 A. Oh, I didn't break that down. I'd have
4 to go back and take a look at that. I can get
5 that number, but I don't have it at my fingertips.
6 Q. Do you have any reasonable estimate,
7 not a guess?
8 A. No, I really don't without looking at
9 the figures and I'd have to add them up.
10 Q. Mr. Gow, what are the most important
11 leadership positions of the Chicago District
12 Council?
13 A. Business manager would be the number
14 one most important I'd say of the District
15 Council, then going down the rank order of the
16 Executive Board.
17 Q. So, the business manager and Executive
18 Board are the most important positions?
19 A. Yes.
20 MR. BOSTWICK: Well --
21 BY MR. CARMELL:
22 Q. Most important leadership positions?
23 A. Of the District Council.
24 Q. Yes. 185
1 A. Business manager.
2 Q. Business manager?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Now, the Complaint paragraph 5 --
5 throughout refers to three categories, mob
6 members, mob associates and mob relatives.
7 Would you, if you can, define for the
8 purposes of this Complaint a mob member.
9 A. A mob member would be an individual who
10 would be referred to as a made member of the mob.
11 An associate is a non-made member of organized
12 crime, an individual who works with the particular
13 group. And a relative -- was that the third one
14 you asked?
15 Q. Yes.
16 A. A relative would be just as it is, a
17 son, daughter, niece, nephew, something like that,
18 of a person who is identified as a made member.
19 Q. When you are using the definition of a
20 relative, sir, are you using the definition that
21 would have been used with your experience with the
22 FBI?
23 A. As a relative?
24 Q. Yes. 186
1 A. I guess I am.
2 Q. Is there any distinction between the
3 definition you are giving now and the definition
4 that is in the EDP of a relative?
5 A. No, I don't think so.
6 Q. EDP. I don't know that this fits your
7 definition. I just want to make sure we are all
8 going to be talking about the same thing.
9 It says a relative shall mean a lineal
10 descendent, step-child, ancestor, sibling or
11 spouse or child of a lineal descendent,
12 step-child, ancestor or sibling.
13 Are you aware of that definition?
14 A. I have read it in the past. I
15 certainly couldn't have quoted it there, but in
16 effect that's what I think --
17 Q. I couldn't either.
18 From your understanding of this
19 lawyer's piece, is a nephew a relative of an
20 uncle?
21 A. I would put him in that category.
22 Q. It's a lineal descendent?
23 A. Lineal.
24 Q. Okay. What do you understand the term
187
1 lineal descendent to mean, if you do understand it
2 at all?
3 I just want to know if you have a view
4 of what it is or if it's ever been defined
5 anyplace that you know of.
6 A. I have not other than I guess Webster's
7 breakdown of a lineal descendent. This is
8 something in discussion that has not come up
9 before.
10 For the defining of lineal descendent,
11 I would put in someone that is in the lineage of
12 an individual and that would -- I am not
13 explaining this exactly right. But, in other
14 words, a branch off of your family from you to
15 your sister to a someone off there I think would
16 fall in the lineal category.
17 Q. Doesn't sound like it to me, but that
18 is not what it is. Branches off would be second
19 cousins and third cousins.
20 A. Well --
21 Q. All right. So that we know, you know
22 of no policy statement or written definition that
23 had been given to the membership as to what
24 constitutes a lineal descendent? 188
1 A. I know of nothing other than what you
2 have read out of the EDP.
3 Q. Now, with respect to Exhibit 145, are
4 all of the persons who are circled there mob
5 members or were they mob members?
6 A. Yes. Yes.
7 Q. Were any of them mob relatives?
8 A. Well, yes. You are talking about
9 circled now.
10 Q. Yes, circled.
11 A. Not to my knowledge.
12 Q. Are any of the uncircled persons on GEB
13 Exhibit 145 are or were mob members?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Who?
16 A. James Caporale, John Matassa, Bruno
17 Caruso, Joe Mazza, John Galioto, Jimmy DiForti,
18 Dominick DiMaggio, Joseph Abate, Vincent DiVarco,
19 Craig Kumerow, Nicholas Gironda.
20 Q. Your testimony is that everyone you
21 named is a mob member, a made member of the mob?
22 A. Member or associate.
23 Q. Tell me which ones are mob members,
24 made members of the mob, as you've defined them.
189
1 A. John Matassa, Bruno Caruso, Jimmy
2 DiForti, Frank Demonte, Joseph Mazza, Vincent
3 Solano, and I believe Dominick DiMaggio.
4 I may be wrong.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: On whom? DiMaggio?
6 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
7 MR. BOSTWICK: I'm sorry. I didn't hear that
8 last answer.
9 BY THE WITNESS:
10 A. I said on Dominick DiMaggio, I take
11 that back.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: He is not certain of
13 Dominick DiMaggio.
14 BY MR. CARMELL:
15 Q. With respect to Bruno Caruso, what is
16 your source of information or the basis for your
17 testifying that Bruno Caruso is a made member of
18 the mob?
19 A. Law enforcement sources.
20 Q. Documents?
21 A. Yes, documents, witness -- when I say
22 witness statements, cooperating witnesses.
23 Q. Is Bruno Caruso's name as being a made
24 member of the mob in any President's Commission on
190
1 Organized Crime report?
2 A. None that I can recall.
3 Q. Is he named as a made member of the mob
4 in any Senate hearings or Congressional hearings
5 that you know of?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Is he listed as a made member of the
8 mob in any Chicago Crime Commission report?
9 A. I can't recall with regard to Chicago
10 Crime Commission report.
11 Q. Let me go through again the basis upon
12 which you make the statement, Bruno Caruso is a
13 made member of the mob. And that is cooperating
14 witness statement?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Who is the name of the witness?
17 A. Can I give the names?
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Witness is asking a
19 question, editorially. He is asking the
20 question. Is there, Mr. Bostwick, an objection to
21 him answering that question?
22 MR. CARMELL: If Mr. Bostwick wanted to
23 object, he would have objected.
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: No. I don't know if 191
1 you heard him. He said, can I give that out?
2 MR. CARMELL: Mr. Bostwick knows what he
3 wants to object to, Mr. Vaira.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, I assume that.
5 MR. CARMELL: I guess it's out on the table
6 now. So let's go protect all these sources, so
7 that we have no way of knowing who says what.
8 MR. BOSTWICK: For the record, Mr. Carmell, I
9 don't think that that required -- I will make a
10 statement on this, which is that there are other
11 witnesses that we will produce who are more
12 intimately familiar with the workings.
13 Mr. Gow can testify as to the names of
14 any individuals who gave information, to the
15 extent that he knows them and knows that they are
16 not protected, and knows that there is an ability
17 to give them.
18 If he does not know that information, I
19 guess he will testify to it, but --
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, he didn't
21 say that on direct. It just came out on cross.
22 So whatever you get on cross, you know, you get
23 what you're asking. He didn't put him out to say
24 that. I don't think he said that on direct. 192
1 MR. BOSTWICK: He was not offered as a
2 witness for this purpose. We have other witnesses
3 for this purpose.
4 But if you want to wander into this
5 area, that's fine.
6 MR. CARMELL: That's fine.
7 BY MR. CARMELL:
8 Q. Now, I want to know the names of the
9 people. Let's start first with those that are not
10 in protective custody. Give me the names of the
11 persons who have told -- upon which you base your
12 statement that Bruno Caruso is a made member of
13 the mob.
14 A. Several former FBI agents, Lee Flossi,
15 Bob Sigalski, Jack O'Rourke.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: Go a little slower, so
17 she can hear who you are --
18 BY THE WITNESS:
19 A. Lee Flossi, F-l-o-s-s-i, Jack O'Rourke,
20 Bob Sigalski, S-I-G-A-L-S-K-I.
21 BY MR. CARMELL:
22 Q. And that those were verbal statements
23 from them to you?
24 A. Yes. And there are written documents.
193
1 Q. What are the written documents?
2 A. Reports and interviews, etcetera. I
3 can't --
4 Q. From Mr. --
5 A. I can't give you right now a list of
6 what these documents are. In other words, we have
7 had numbers of meetings discussing these things,
8 and where this has been discussed and brought up
9 verbally based on a number of issues.
10 Q. Have you seen any law enforcement
11 agent -- have you seen the FBI organized crime
12 reports?
13 A. Since I've been in this job?
14 Q. Yes.
15 A. No, not the organized crime reports.
16 Q. Have you seen the 1992 organized crime
17 report from the FBI?
18 A. The public version, I believe we have a
19 copy of it back at the office.
20 Q. Did you see Bruno Caruso's name in
21 there at all?
22 A. No.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: What's the organized
24 crime report from the FBI? What is that? 194
1 THE WITNESS: There is a --
2 MR. CARMELL: It's an exhibit that's coming
3 in, began with the Appalachia and goes through the
4 FBI.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Just so we know what we
6 are talking about. He never mentioned it
7 earlier. I'm trying to catch up.
8 THE WITNESS: I'm not --
9 MR. CARMELL: Wanted by the Mob, FBI
10 Organized Crime Report, 25 Years After Valachi.
11 MR. BOSTWICK: Maybe you could, in fairness,
12 show it to him. That's Exhibit No. 3. It was not
13 introduced through Mr. Gow. He has not talked
14 about it yet. But if you want to refer to it,
15 maybe we should make sure we are not talking
16 apples and oranges.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: My question is here,
18 gentlemen, Mr. Gow got up, put some information
19 on, which you are asking about. He obviously has
20 some information other than he testified on
21 direct. Mr. Bostwick didn't offer him for that,
22 simply it may be because there are other persons
23 who know better or are closer to it.
24 So if you are getting nonresponsive 195
1 answers, he may have to dig up or go back. We are
2 not trying to hold you back. But I don't know if
3 he is prepared for all this.
4 You have the documents that you want to
5 refer to?
6 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I'd have to go back
7 through this again, in some of the questions he
8 asked me, and do a review. Off the top of my
9 head, I can't give a real definitive answer.
10 BY MR. CARMELL:
11 Q. John Matassa, is he listed in any of,
12 your PCOC report that you testified about?
13 A. The only one that he, that I recall he
14 was listed in, he was listed in as a relative, was
15 in the draft complaint.
16 Q. Talking about John Matassa.
17 A. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm going to have to --
18 I just can't give you an answer without doing some
19 review here. I just can't recall.
20 Q. Except for Alfred Pilotto, some of the
21 people you have circled down there, and I went
22 through these documents you gave us, gave to the
23 Hearing Officer, I didn't find Bruno Caruso, I
24 don't find John Matassa, and I don't find a lot of
196
1 other people that you have named. Does that
2 surprise you?
3 A. Does it surprise me?
4 Q. Yes, that they are not named as made
5 members of the mob?
6 A. Well, no, it doesn't surprise me, based
7 on the sum total of my knowledge.
8 And I think that this is what, you
9 know, you are going to hear further testimony from
10 other people that will address those factors.
11 Q. Okay. So you, to your knowledge,
12 though, you don't -- they are not in there, you
13 don't know why they wouldn't be in there?
14 A. I can't -- no, I don't.
15 Q. Final question. Is there anything in
16 the EDP that you know of that prevents a relative
17 of a mob member from being, from holding office in
18 LIUNA?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Is there anything that you know of in
21 the EDP that prevents a relative of a mob
22 associate from holding office in LIUNA?
23 A. No. Again, it goes back to the
24 definition and associations here; and if it 197
1 doesn't meet the standards set out, there is
2 nothing wrong with it.
3 Q. So, just by being a relative of a mob
4 associate, you are not prohibited from holding any
5 office in LIUNA, isn't that correct?
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. And, finally, being the relative of a
8 mob relative will not prevent you from holding
9 office in LIUNA, is that correct?
10 A. That's correct.
11 MR. CARMELL: I have nothing further.
12 MR. BOSTWICK: I have a few quick
13 clarifications on the chart that Mr. Carmell was
14 referring to.
15 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
17 Q. Mr. Gow, could you take a look at
18 Exhibit No. 4, please, quickly, that binder.
19 A. No. 4.
20 Q. Yes.
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: The book.
22 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
23 Q. I'm sorry. I have got the wrong one.
24 Exhibit 5. 198
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: It's a white book
2 also. It's not here. Use mine.
3 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
4 Q. Mr. Carmell had said those are the only
5 names on the chart on Exhibit 145, the large
6 blowup, were the only individuals that had been
7 identified in these various public reports as
8 individuals associated with organized crime.
9 And I just wanted to clarify since I
10 erased that exhibit a couple of times that we have
11 in fact added a couple of others.
12 Can you refer to the chart in the back
13 of Exhibit 5.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. All right. Do you see the individuals
16 who are highlighted? There are two Frank
17 Caruso's. Remember we went through this?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. With Frank Michael Caruso, do you see
20 that individual?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. That was marked before. I had actually
23 erased it. I will add that back up there.
24 Do you also see I believe it's page 119
199
1 of this?
2 A. Of the second part.
3 Q. Which is under the tab of the prepared
4 statement of Mr. Hegarty, page 121 is what it
5 was. Page 121. Remember we had gone through that
6 case that we had a little bit of trouble
7 identifying the Hauser matter?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. Do you recall that testimony?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And we had indicated James Caporale, we
12 had circled that name as well.
13 A. And Al Pilotto.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: Alfred Pilotto.
15 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
16 Q. And Al Pilotto as well. I am circling
17 these names on the charts.
18 Mr. Gow, one last question.
19 Have you ever done anything in the
20 investigation of any individual as a part of this
21 LIUNA reform process that you felt uncomfortable
22 with because it was directed either by the
23 Government or any International official?
24 A. No. 200
1 Q. What would you do if that happened?
2 A. I'd refuse to do it.
3 MR. BOSTWICK: No further questions.
4 MR. CARMELL: Mr. Vaira.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, sir.
6 MR. CARMELL: If I could have your attention.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: I am reading this
8 document. I am listening. I am standing so I can
9 get a little closer to the action.
10 MR. CARMELL: I would like you to hear the
11 last question and the last answer and tell me
12 whether I am now foreclosed from going into the
13 issues I wanted to that you told me I had to
14 proffer.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: I heard the last
16 question.
17 MR. CARMELL: He asked him is there anything
18 that he has ever done in this investigation that
19 wasn't basically on his own and he said no and I
20 would have quit or resigned, and I now want to
21 test that.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: He said anything --
23 MR. CARMELL: Why don't we -- I did not --
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: I heard it. 201
1 MR. CARMELL: I did not phrase it
2 appropriately.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: I heard it. I heard
4 the question. Anything that you have been
5 asked -- referred to by the Department of Justice
6 or others that you felt uncomfortable with.
7 MR. CARMELL: Right.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: That is the term,
9 uncomfortable with. I am not sure what that
10 means.
11 MR. CARMELL: I want to explore what he is
12 comfortable with.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: We have referred to
14 that. We are not going to replow this ground. I
15 am not so sure what question it went to and how
16 probative it was. Did you do anything you were
17 uncomfortable with. We covered that. He felt
18 free to go wherever he wanted to go and no one
19 ever told him to do anything else.
20 Assume that they had. The question is
21 here we are in Chicago. We are talking about is
22 there organized crime in this particular District
23 Council and is there or is there not.
24 MR. CARMELL: No, sir, that is not the 202
1 question.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: That is the main
3 question.
4 MR. CARMELL: That is not the question that
5 was put to this witness on redirect and it is not
6 the answer that he gave.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well --
8 MR. CARMELL: And you are going to let that
9 in, which it is, and you are not going to let me
10 examine, which you won't.
11 Let's leave that go.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, that
13 particular question and answer has about zilch
14 weight to me. That's why I was down here looking
15 at the table and somebody called me and asked me
16 if I really heard that.
17 I heard it. It didn't -- I don't think
18 it's probative of anything. So, gentlemen, let's
19 go on.
20 MR. CARMELL: Well, then I am going to go on
21 with my proffer now if I can.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
23 MR. CARMELL: We don't need him on the stand
24 obviously since you are not going to allow him to
203
1 answer.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Are you going to
3 proffer what you expected to prove and what he is
4 expected to answer?
5 MR. CARMELL: I have 15 pages of questions
6 and answers. The answers are very short and the
7 questions are relatively short.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. This goes under
9 the proffer of what you would expect to hear from
10 Mr. Gow.
11 MR. CARMELL: Right.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Go ahead.
13 MR. BOSTWICK: Mr. Vaira, two points of
14 clarification. Will we get a copy of those as the
15 proffer?
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think he is going to
17 put them in the record.
18 MR. CARMELL: Right.
19 MR. BOSTWICK: You are going to read them on
20 the record now.
21 MR. CARMELL: Yes.
22 MR. BOSTWICK: The second point of
23 clarification is because of the -- because the
24 introduction of the tape was a little out of 204
1 sequence I can't recall whether we moved its
2 admission with the transcript.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: I think you did.
4 MR. BOSTWICK: I wanted to clarify.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: I believe we ruled.
6 MR. CARMELL: I want to move to strike it
7 because --
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Move to strike.
9 Gentlemen, I am not convinced of the
10 probative value of that tape recording and the
11 testimony. I don't know what it connects up
12 with. As I said, other matters I will permit to
13 be introduced into the record. Right now somebody
14 has got to give me some other indication of what
15 that proves.
16 All right. Go ahead. Let's hear your
17 proffer.
18 MR. CARMELL: "Q. Arthur A. Coia was
19 General President since 1993?
20 "A. Yes.
21 "Q. Arthur A. Coia is the son of
22 Arthur E. Coia, who was LIUNA's General
23 Secretary-Treasurer?
24 "A. Yes. 205
1 "Q. Arthur A. Coia is under
2 investigation at the present time by the
3 Inspector General?
4 "A. Yes.
5 "Q. Arthur A. Coia is fully
6 subject to the EDP including removal for
7 barred conduct?
8 "A. Yes.
9 "Q. Isn't it true that the
10 Department of Justice has stated that it is
11 of the opinion that Coia, Arthur A. Coia,
12 became General President because he was the
13 son of his father?
14 "A. Yes.
15 "Q. Isn't it correct that the
16 Department of Justice is of the opinion that
17 Arthur A. Coia became president -- strike
18 that -- that Arthur A. Coia's father was
19 mobbed up?
20 "A. Yes.
21 "Q. Are you aware of the
22 Department of Justice first draft civil RICO
23 complaint under cover of a November 4, 1994
24 letter? 206
1 "A. Yes.
2 "Q. Are you aware that the draft
3 RICO complaint named all of the members of
4 LIUNA's General Executive Board as
5 Defendants in their official capacities?
6 "A. Yes.
7 "Q. Are you aware that that
8 complaint named Coia as a Defendant in both
9 his official and individual capacities?
10 "A. Yes.
11 "Q. Are you aware that the RICO
12 complaint alleged that Coia, quote,
13 'associated with and been controlled and
14 influenced by organized crime'?
15 "A. Yes.
16 "Q. Are you aware that that
17 complaint alleged that, quote, 'Coia has
18 been associating with the members of the New
19 England LCN family for a substantial period
20 of time'?
21 "A. Yes.
22 "Q. Are you aware that in the
23 complaint Coia was a Defendant in the United
24 States vs. Arthur A. Coia, et al., in the 207
1 Southern District of Florida?
2 "A. Yes.
3 "Q. Are you aware that the
4 Florida indictment charged that between 1973
5 and 1976 Coia and his father as officers,
6 agents and employees of LIUNA, quote, 'did
7 knowingly receive, agree to receive and
8 solicit a fee, kickback, commission and a
9 thing of value, that is, money, in the
10 amount in excess of $25,000 from Joseph
11 Hauser and Farmers National Insurance
12 Company because of him intent to be
13 influenced with respect to their actions,
14 decisions and other duties relating to
15 questions and matters concerning the
16 Massachusetts Laborers Health and Welfare
17 Fund'?
18 "A. Yes.
19 "Q. Are you aware that the
20 complaint also alleged that Coia shared the
21 amount greater than $25,000 with, quote,
22 'co-conspirator Raymond Patriarca'?
23 "A. Yes.
24 "Q. Are you aware that the
208
1 complaint also charged that between 1973 and
2 1976 Coia and his father as officers, agents
3 and employees of LIUNA, quote, 'did
4 knowingly receive, agree to receive and
5 solicit a fee, kickback, commission, thing
6 of value, that is, money, in an unknown
7 amount greater than $25,000 from Joseph
8 Hauser and Farmers National Insurance
9 Company with cause of and with intent to be
10 influenced with respect to their actions,
11 decisions and other duties relating to the
12 Rhode Island Laborers District Council
13 Health and Welfare Fund'?
14 "A. Yes.
15 "Q. And are you aware that the
16 RICO complaint alleged that Coia shared the
17 amount greater than $25,000 with, quote,
18 'co-conspirator Raymond Patriarca'?
19 "A. Yes.
20 "Q. Are you aware that the
21 complaint alleged that the acts by Coia were
22 in violation of 18 USC Section 1954?
23 "A. Yes.
24 "Q. Are you aware that the
Joseph 209
1 Hauser in the Florida indictment is the
2 Joseph Hauser whose declaration is GEB
3 Attorney Exhibit 18?
4 "A. Yes.
5 "Q. Are you aware that the civil
6 complaint alleged that Raymond Patriarca was
7 from at least 1970 until his death in 1984
8 the boss of the New England LCN family?
9 "A. Yes.
10 "Q. Are you aware that the acts
11 by Coia alleged in the Florida indictment
12 constitute barred conduct as defined in the
13 EDP?
14 "A. Yes.
15 "Q. Are you aware that the first
16 RICO complaint alleged that Coia had
17 conspired to and did unlawfully, knowingly
18 and intentionally engage in a pattern of
19 racketeering activity in violation of 18 USC
20 1962?
21 "A. Yes.
22 "Q. Are you aware that this
23 allegation constitutes barred conduct by
24 Coia under the EDP? 210
1 "A. Yes.
2 "Q. Are you aware that the first
3 RICO complaint alleged that Coia had
4 extorted LIUNA membership through force in
5 violation of 18 USC Section 1951?
6 "A. Yes.
7 "Q. Are you aware that this
8 allegation constitutes barred conduct by
9 Coia under the EDP?
10 "A. Yes.
11 "Q. Are you aware that the first
12 RICO complaint alleged that from 1986 to
13 about July 31, 1994, covering a period of
14 time that Coia was general president, that
15 Coia conspired to and did extort money from
16 LIUNA locals in violation of 18 USC Sections
17 1951 and 1952?
18 "A. Yes.
19 "Q. Are you aware that this
20 allegation constitutes barred conduct by
21 Coia under the EDP?
22 "A. Yes.
23 "Q. Are you aware that the first
24 RICO complaint alleged that from 1986 to 211
1 about July 31, 1994, covering the period of
2 time while Arthur Coia was general president
3 of LIUNA, that Coia conspired to and did
4 defraud LIUNA locals in violation of 18 USC
5 sections 1341, 1346 and 2?
6 "A. Yes.
7 "Q. Are you aware that this
8 allegation constitutes barred conduct by
9 Coia under the EDP?
10 "A. Yes.
11 "Q. Are you aware that the first
12 RICO complaint sought to have Coia
13 permanently barred from holding any LIUNA
14 office and from participating in any way
15 with the management of any LIUNA entity or
16 benefit fund?
17 "A. Yes.
18 "Q. Are you aware that the
19 Department of Justice representative Coffey,
20 on July 25, 1996, testified before the House
21 Committee that the DOJ believed that the
22 information in the first RICO complaint
23 concerning Coia is true and correct, and
24 that that was under oath? 212
1 "A. Yes.
2 "Q. Are you aware that as of
3 October 7, 1994, and July 25, 1996, as
4 testified to by Michael Ross, supervisory
5 agent, FBI, before the House Committee, that
6 the FBI was of the opinion that, quote,
7 "Coia is a criminal associate of the New
8 England Patriarca organized crime family,"
9 end of quote?
10 "A. Yes.
11 "Q. Are you aware that Coia has
12 an arrest record?
13 "A. Yes.
14 "Q. Mr. Gow, do you confer daily,
15 did you tell the Los Angeles Times on
16 September 12, 1995, that you conferred daily
17 with Coia and the GEB Attorney?
18 "A. Yes.
19 "Q. Were you present at the
20 House, did you hear the House Committee
21 testimony by Mr. Luskin that the GEB
22 Attorney has taken two depositions of Coia,
23 which the DOJ considered too lenient in
24 questioning? 213
1 "A. Yes.
2 "Q. Are you aware that Mr. Luskin
3 told the committee that the GEB Attorney was
4 going to take another dep of Coia in early
5 August, 1996?
6 "A. Yes.
7 "Q. Have charges been brought
8 under the EDP against Arthur A. Coia?
9 "A. No.
10 "Q. Has the General Executive
11 Board Attorney begun proceedings with a
12 complaint for trusteeship over LIUNA?
13 "A. No."
14 That's the proffer.
15 MR. BOSTWICK: Mr. Vaira, if I can comment on
16 that briefly, for the record, we do not oppose the
17 asking of any of those questions. I can't tell
18 what you Mr. Gow's answers are going to be.
19 I think it's probative of absolutely
20 nothing as a theoretical matter. It is nothing
21 more than if, in the Buffalo trusteeship matter,
22 the attorneys had stood up and said, you haven't
23 yet brought an action against Vince Solano and
24 Bruno Caruso. 214
1 I don't think it's -- what we are
2 talking about is the Chicago Laborers' District
3 Council. Mr. Gow obviously cannot discuss
4 specific investigations of any individuals, just
5 as he couldn't discuss an investigation of
6 individuals that are part of the Chicago District
7 Council.
8 But as to many of those questions, I
9 would stipulate to some of those answers. As to
10 many of them, I would not. But Mr. Gow is the
11 witness. I simply don't, don't interpose an
12 objection on that.
13 MR. CARMELL: Excuse me, Mr. Vaira. I missed
14 some questions.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let me --
16 MR. CARMELL: I want to finish the proffer.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, I said that
18 I thought this line of questioning was irrelevant
19 to this issue. The issue is, I don't care how
20 many other persons they haven't prosecuted; and if
21 they are going to prosecute, fine.
22 I have also given the rule once before
23 in an election process, election appeal, that the
24 Department of Justice original complaint was not
a 215
1 complaint that was ever filed. It was a working
2 draft. And since that time, a great deal of that
3 complaint has proved, at least in information I've
4 heard, not really trustworthy.
5 And on top of that, the Department of
6 Justice still has that plug in the pool. And if
7 they don't think it's working, then I'm sure they
8 would pull it. So all of that is really
9 irrelevant. I'm here to find out, are these
10 people involved in organized crime.
11 If we are going to hear a case against
12 Mr. Coia tomorrow, then I'll hear it against him.
13 Right now, let's go on with this case. And that's
14 what I'm here to hear. I'm not here to hear a
15 thousand explanations why we haven't prosecuted
16 another 40 other persons out there. All right?
17 MR. CARMELL: I'd like to ask Mr. Gow --
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead.
19 MR. CARMELL: -- proffer four questions.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
21 BY MR. CARMELL:
22 Q. Mr. Gow, as Inspector General, is each
23 case carefully reviewed to ensure that all
24 allegations have been aggressively pursued and the
216
1 matter brought to logical conclusions?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Is it --
4 MR. BOSTWICK: Sorry. Is this a proffer or
5 is this --
6 MR. CARMELL: No. It's a question to him.
7 This directly goes to --
8 MR. BOSTWICK: I'm sorry. I thought you were
9 still proffering.
10 BY THE WITNESS:
11 A. If, could I explain a little bit?
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm not sure what --
13 ask him that again.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: Ask him that again.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm not sure what that
16 question meant.
17 BY MR. CARMELL:
18 Q. Let me put it another way then.
19 In the September, October, 1995
20 Laborer, your report, you said, quote, "Each case
21 is carefully reviewed to ensure that all
22 allegations have been aggressively pursued and the
23 matter brought to logical conclusion," end of
24 quote. 217
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. You said that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. That is a fact?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Still is a fact?
7 A. Still is.
8 Q. Is the Inspector General authorized to
9 investigate and prosecute corruption by officers
10 of the International Union?
11 A. Absolutely.
12 Q. Is the IG authorized to investigate and
13 prosecute corruption by officers of the District
14 Councils?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And of the local unions?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And did you write in The Laborer from
19 May, June, 1995 that your, quote, "mandate is to
20 serve the union member to the best of his ability,
21 and to guarantee a union free of corruption," end
22 of quote?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Was that true then? 218
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Has it remained true today?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. That's all I have, Mr. Witness.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, I've ruled.
6 I'm taking the offer of proof, but for whatever
7 the questions, and I would take them as if that
8 would be the answer. That is still irrelevant to
9 this proceeding. So let's proceed.
10 MR. BOSTWICK: I would call --
11 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, Mr. Gow, thank
12 you.
13 MR. BOSTWICK: I call Mr. Jack O'Rourke.
14 I take it Mr. Gow can be excused.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, he can.
16 (Witness excused).
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. O'Rourke.
18 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly
19 sworn.)
20 JOHN J. O'ROURKE,
21 called as a witness herein, having been first duly
22 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
23 DIRECT EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. BOSTWICK: 219
1 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, can you state your name
2 for the record, please?
3 A. Yes, John J. O'Rourke. That's spelled
4 O'-R-o-u-r-k-e.
5 Q. What is your current employment?
6 A. I am an inspector with the Office of
7 the Inspector General, LIUNA.
8 Q. How long have you held that position?
9 A. Since May of 1996, to the present.
10 Q. What is the nature of your work for
11 LIUNA?
12 A. Conduct investigations of corruption
13 and alleged organized crime influence in the
14 Laborers' Union in the Chicago area.
15 Q. Have you had any prior experience in
16 law enforcement?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Can you describe that for us?
19 A. I was a special agent for the Office of
20 Naval Intelligence, at Chicago, in Washington,
21 D.C., for six years. I then joined the FBI and
22 served 26 years, various offices, 23 years in the
23 Chicago office.
24 Upon retirement, in 1995, I became an
220
1 inspector with the Cook County Sheriff's Office,
2 and was assigned to the FBI task force, and in the
3 FBI offices in Chicago.
4 I resigned that job in May, 1996, and
5 at that point became inspector with the Office of
6 the Inspector General.
7 Q. In total, Mr. O'Rourke -- well, first,
8 did some of those positions involve the
9 investigation of organized crime in Chicago?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. In total, how many years did you spend
12 in law enforcement, investigating organized crime
13 related activity in Chicago area?
14 A. I have 32 years as a law enforcement
15 officer, 23 years directly investigating organized
16 crime in the Chicago area.
17 Q. For clarification purposes, what period
18 of time were you talking about when you are
19 talking about this span of 32 years in organized
20 crime related --
21 A. I was transferred --
22 Q. -- investigations?
23 A. -- transferred to Chicago in 1973, and
24 worked until I retired, and then for a year and a
221
1 half afterwards, with the task force, primarily
2 engaged in investigating organized crime in
3 Chicago.
4 Q. Can you estimate for us the number of
5 organized crime investigations you have worked on
6 in this period?
7 A. Several hundred in that period.
8 Q. Can you estimate the number of
9 organized crime convictions you played a role in
10 during that period?
11 A. Either as case agent or as part of a
12 team of FBI agents working the same case,
13 approximately 70, 75.
14 Q. Did you receive any awards during that
15 period of time?
16 A. Yes, sir. I received approximately 100
17 accommodations from the director of the FBI or
18 various law enforcement agencies, and also
19 received an award from the Chicago Chamber of
20 Commerce in 1991 for excellence in law
21 enforcement.
22 Q. Have you held any teaching positions?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. What did you teach? 222
1 A. I was a field police instructor with
2 the FBI, in hostage negotiations, crisis
3 negotiations, criminal psychology, informant
4 development and organized crime cases.
5 Q. Throughout the hearing, you and other
6 witnesses will be referring to a number of terms.
7 And I'd like to get you at the outset to provide
8 definitions of some of those terms.
9 First thing I would want you to do is
10 take a look at Exhibit 3, if you can.
11 What is this document, Exhibit 3?
12 A. These seem to be out of order. Here it
13 is. Excuse me.
14 This is a booklet put out by the
15 Federal Bureau of Investigation, on 25 Years After
16 Valachi. It was an informational booklet put out
17 by FBI headquarters to the general public and law
18 enforcement.
19 Q. Is it a true and correct copy of that
20 document that was distributed by the FBI,
21 describing mob activities?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 MR. BOSTWICK: I move for the admission of
24 Exhibit 3. 223
1 MR. CARMELL: No objection.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead. It's
3 admitted, sir.
4 (WHEREUPON, said document,
5 previously marked GEB Attorney Exhibit
6 No. 3, for identification, was
7 offered and received in evidence as
8 GEB Attorney Exhibit No. 3.)
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: By the national, this
10 is by the national office, am I correct? The
11 FBI?
12 THE WITNESS: Yes, correct.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Public document?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
16 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
17 Q. If I can turn you to the, or refer you
18 to the fourth page -- I'm including the cover
19 page, they don't have numbers on the bottom,
20 but -- my copy doesn't seem to. You see that
21 quote that is in brackets, defining organized
22 crime?
23 A. Yes, sir, I do.
24 Q. Could you read the FBI's definition of
224
1 organized crime?
2 A. The Federal Bureau of Investigation
3 defines organized crime as any group having some
4 manner of formalized structure and whose primary
5 objective is to obtain money through illegal
6 activities.
7 Such groups maintain their position
8 through the use of violence or threats of
9 violence, corrupt public officials, graft or
10 extortion, and generally have a significant impact
11 on the people in their locals or region or the
12 country as a whole. One major crime group
13 epitomizes this definition, La Cosa Nostra.
14 Q. Does La Cosa Nostra, to your knowledge,
15 have a code of conduct?
16 A. Yes, sir, they do.
17 Q. Can you, is that referenced in this
18 booklet here?
19 A. Yes, sir, it is.
20 Q. Can you tell us --
21 A. It's on Page 6.
22 Q. Can you describe for us that code of
23 conduct, based on that?
24 A. Yes, sir. The LCN code consists of, to
225
1 put the organization above wife, children, country
2 or religion, to follow orders of his captain
3 without question, even to include murder, to
4 furnish no information or help to a law
5 enforcement agency, to pay assessments imposed
6 upon him by his captain, regardless of purpose, to
7 disclose nothing about the organization to
8 outsiders, to respect all members, despite
9 personal feelings, to pay debts owed other
10 members, never to injure, steal from or make
11 disparaging remarks about other members, and to
12 refrain from associating with other members'
13 wives, sisters or daughters, except with honorable
14 intentions.
15 Q. Are you aware of whether the LCN exists
16 in the Chicago area?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. What role does corruption play in the
19 LCN?
20 A. Corruption and graft is essential to
21 the operation of the LCN or the Chicago Outfit as
22 it's called here.
23 Q. In Chicago, where have you found
24 evidence of Outfit corruption in your 32 years in
226
1 law enforcement?
2 A. Evidence of corruption exists in
3 Chicago in political corruption, in police
4 corruption, in judicial corruption, in labor
5 unions, with City government and so on.
6 Q. What methods are used to further
7 corruption?
8 A. To further corruption, cash, money,
9 bribery, violence, threats of violence.
10 Q. Does the FBI keep an inventory
11 classifying associates and members of the Chicago
12 Outfit?
13 A. Yes, sir, they do.
14 Q. How does the FBI define the term made
15 member of the Chicago Outfit?
16 A. A made member is an individual who has
17 gone through some form of ceremony and is taken
18 into the organization and is made a member.
19 It indicates he then shares in the
20 profits of the organization and has certain
21 prerogatives, respect paid to him by other
22 members, the ability to have his own crew, to put
23 money out on the street as juice loans, to extort
24 bookmakers and take them under his control and 227
1 various other prerogatives that nonmembers do not
2 have.
3 Q. How does the FBI define the term
4 associate of La Cosa Nostra or the Chicago Outfit?
5 A. An associate is one who works on behalf
6 of a made member of organized crime and there are
7 probably 10 to 20 associate members for every made
8 member, which is kept small. The associate
9 members are individuals who hope some day to be
10 made members of the Outfit.
11 They do the day-to-day tasks,
12 collecting street tax, contacting bookmakers,
13 settling up debts, the regular work of the mob on
14 a day-to-day basis under the direction normally of
15 lieutenants and of bosses who are made members.
16 Q. Do some of these associates work in
17 businesses or other areas?
18 A. Yes, sir. Some of the associates would
19 be individuals who are not out actually doing the
20 day-to-day work but who are under the influence
21 and control of organized crime.
22 They could be business owners,
23 bookmakers, individuals in a position --
24 attorneys, police officers, individuals who are in
228
1 a position to do favors and perform tasks at the
2 direction of organized crime.
3 Q. What criteria, Mr. O'Rourke, is used by
4 the FBI to put an individual on the inventory of
5 the FBI as a member or associate of organized
6 crime?
7 A. With regards to a made member, the FBI
8 has rather stringent requirements. The
9 requirements are that two made members who perhaps
10 are picked up on a wiretap discussing a third
11 would be sufficient.
12 A made member discussing in front of an
13 undercover FBI agent with another individual who
14 is a made member, a third member, would be
15 sufficient.
16 Generally two confidential informants
17 independently who identify an individual as a made
18 member would be required before they are put on
19 the list as identifiable made members or suspected
20 made members.
21 Q. Have you had a chance to review those
22 charts during the course -- not charts -- the
23 inventory, the FBI inventory, of members and
24 associates of organized crime in the Chicago area?
229
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. That's during the course of your 32
3 years in the FBI?
4 A. Yes, sir. And of course it's added to
5 and then taken away from as individuals die or
6 become retired or as new individuals are
7 identified and put on the list. So it changes
8 periodically.
9 Q. Are mistakes made occasionally so that
10 people are in fact taken off if new information
11 arises?
12 A. If information arises that the
13 individual is not actively involved or is not a
14 made member, of course they are taken off.
15 Q. And they are added to?
16 A. And they are added to as information
17 comes in from various sources.
18 Q. Let me ask you to define a few more
19 terms that you have mentioned already but we
20 haven't defined them. What is --
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Before you do, can I
22 clarify a question.
23 Let's go back to associate. Earlier
24 you said that an associate are persons who are 230
1 working and want to become made members. Later on
2 your definition was they could be persons who
3 would be policemen, lawyers, persons who were
4 working under everyday occupations.
5 Can you explain those two -- sort of
6 conflict there.
7 THE WITNESS: Well, there is a conflict, yes,
8 sir.
9 Some individuals are actively out every
10 day, street tax collectors, enforcers, who are
11 threatening individuals to collect moneys, who are
12 criminals themselves and who aspire to become made
13 members.
14 Other individuals are under the control
15 and influence of organized crime, do their
16 bidding, protect them.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: But those persons have
18 no chance of ever becoming a member of the -- a
19 made member.
20 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: So you gave an example
22 of a Norwegian store owner. He runs a grocery
23 store. Pretty fat chance of him ever becoming a
24 made member of the LCN. 231
1 If he does the work of them, either
2 reporting or doing something in favor, would you
3 say that person can be an associate?
4 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. If an individual is
5 identified as doing the work and associating with
6 organized crime, then the working definition is he
7 would be an associate.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: So the persons need not
9 be engaged in illegal activity every day to be an
10 associate.
11 THE WITNESS: That's correct, yes, sir.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Now, what about this
13 criteria of classifying somebody as a made
14 member? You said that you needed two made members
15 overheard talking about it. You also had one
16 other definition of two confidential sources.
17 Would you explain that, what you mean
18 by two confidential sources talking about it.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Not talking about
20 it. Two confidential sources reporting to the FBI
21 independently of each other that a certain
22 individual is known to them as a made member based
23 on their own membership in organized crime as
24 associates. 232
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. In the FBI you
2 have informant, better informants and top echelon
3 informants, some that have never been tested.
4 Do you have some sort of criteria about
5 the quality of the informants who talk about a
6 person before you identify him as a made member,
7 in other words, you get a -- one third level
8 sometimes reliable informant saying that Smith is
9 an organized crime member and then you get another
10 person just like the same -- same level of
11 informant. Would those two informants, half-baked
12 informants, would that be sufficient?
13 THE WITNESS: No, sir. They would have to be
14 proven reliable informants and individuals who are
15 in fact themselves involved in organized crime,
16 identifiable organized crime activities that have
17 inside information.
18 Two informants, for instance, who would
19 be reporting on cartage thieves and would not have
20 access, that would not be acceptable. Has to be
21 organized crime informants involved in organized
22 crime activities on a day-to-day basis.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. You may go
24 ahead. 233
1 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
2 Q. You referred to a few terms as you went
3 along there. I want to clarify their meaning.
4 What is street tax?
5 A. A street tax is an extortionate
6 collection of money by organized crime. What it
7 involves is a payment by individuals or businesses
8 engaged in illegal activities, chop shops,
9 bookmakers.
10 Q. What is a chop shop?
11 A. Chop shop is a salvage yard which
12 specializes in chopping up stolen cars and then
13 selling the parts off on an illegal market. The
14 fact that that's going on and it's illegal would
15 be enough for the Chicago Outfit to send
16 individuals out and collect a monthly tribute from
17 them for allowing them to continue to operate.
18 Could be, as I say -- bookmakers are
19 often the object of extortion street tax
20 collection, porno bookstores, any individual
21 engaged in some sort of illegal activity,
22 prostitution and so on.
23 Q. What is a juice loan?
24 A. A juice loan is an illegal loan made to
234
1 individuals by members of organized crime. The
2 interest -- there is no legal validity.
3 Individuals generally are poor risks. They are
4 generally burglars, gamblers, individuals who have
5 some problem and a need for money.
6 The loans are made out by Outfit
7 loansharks, juice men. The individual has to be
8 vouched for by an Outfit member, is brought to a
9 loanshark. The money is provided and then the
10 juice or the monthly or the weekly payment is
11 generally 5 percent as a rule of thumb. Sometimes
12 3, but usually 5 percent interest each week.
13 Q. Each week. How much does that work out
14 to be a year?
15 A. That would work out to be 260 percent
16 per year interest, and generally it does not come
17 off the principal. That is just the juice or the
18 interest to get the loan.
19 Q. What occurs if an individual does not
20 pay on their juice loan in your experience?
21 A. In my experience talking to victims of
22 juice loans they are required to show
23 identification, give their driver's license,
24 provide their home address and other details. 235
1 Q. Why is that?
2 A. So that they can be found and the money
3 collected and the threat is very clear at the
4 outset that if you do not pay the weekly juice,
5 the weekly payment, on the loan, then violence can
6 and may then ensue. They can be beaten. They
7 will be threatened, beaten, possibly killed as a
8 result of nonpayment of the loan.
9 Q. What if an individual who's taken a
10 juice loan doesn't pay. Is there any effect on
11 the sponsor of the individual, the Outfit or LCN
12 sponsor?
13 A. Yes, sir. Normally the individual who
14 vouches for the loan recipient or the victim is
15 responsible for collection of that money. If the
16 victim or the recipient doesn't pay or flees, then
17 the Outfit member who vouched for them is
18 responsible for paying or collecting the money.
19 The money must come in on a weekly basis and goes
20 up the line to the bosses of the Outfit.
21 Q. What is a crew or a street crew?
22 A. Street crew is the lowest level of the
23 organization of the Outfit in Chicago.
24 Historically there have been six or five or six 236
1 identifiable street crews.
2 It's headed by a boss who usually is
3 assisted by lieutenants on the street who control
4 a number of organized crime associates who do the
5 actual work of collecting moneys, shaking down
6 bookmakers, chop shop owners, collecting whatever
7 moneys, contacting people and so on.
8 Q. What are some of the -- first, are you
9 aware of some of the crews that have existed in
10 Chicago over time?
11 A. Yes, sir, I am.
12 Q. Can you describe for us just a brief
13 overview of what those crews are?
14 A. Historically there was a south suburban
15 Chicago Heights crew. There was the -- there is
16 the 26th Street Chinatown crew, which has existed
17 since the days of Al Capone, the Cicero crew based
18 in Cicero and the western suburbs, the Elmwood
19 Park crew, the Grand Avenue crew and north side or
20 the Rush Street crew.
21 Q. You have discussed a little bit in
22 response to Mr. Vaira's question the notion of
23 sources and source information. I'd like to
24 clarify that a little bit further still. 237
1 What is the definition of a source as
2 distinguished from a cooperating witness or some
3 other individual who gives you information?
4 A. A source or a confidential informant is
5 an individual who provides information to the FBI
6 on a confidential basis concerning illegal
7 activities and who wishes his identity protected
8 and he does not want to testify in open court
9 because of his fear of retribution.
10 Q. Where does law enforcement like
11 yourself while you were in the Bureau, where could
12 you get a picture of the identity, structure and
13 workings of the Chicago Outfit?
14 A. The picture is gathered through
15 convictions of mob members, through prosecutions
16 in Federal Court, through confidential informants'
17 information, through cooperating witnesses who
18 cooperate with the FBI and then testify in Federal
19 Court, subjects to agree to plead guilty and then
20 provide information on their organized crime past
21 and associates, through wiretaps, court authorized
22 Title III wiretaps, through consensual recordings
23 of a victim, witnesses, for instance, paying off
24 juice men or being threatened or even being beaten
238
1 or undercover operations in which FBI agents are
2 introduced into the organized crime scene by a
3 cooperating witness generally or a cooperating
4 informant and then taken in and recordings are
5 made, surveillances as well.
6 Q. Have you personally participated in
7 every law enforcement phase that you have just
8 described, surveillances, undercover operations,
9 court cases and the like?
10 A. Yes, sir, I have.
11 Q. I'd like to turn your attention now to
12 the structure and leadership of the Outfit in
13 Chicago. Before I do, over the course of your
14 career, have you spoken personally to cooperating
15 witnesses who are actually associates of the
16 Chicago Outfit?
17 A. Yes, sir, I have.
18 Q. Can you name a few of those
19 individuals?
20 A. Yes, I can. Leonard Patrick, Mario
21 Ranone, James Lavalle, Guy Bills, Richard Mara,
22 Nick Geo.
23 Q. Did you ever speak to a Gerald
24 Scarpelli? 239
1 A. Gerald Scarpelli, yes, sir.
2 Q. Are there others that you are not
3 remembering off the top of your head?
4 A. There are others that I can't recall,
5 yes, sir.
6 Q. Did you discuss with each of these
7 individuals the identities of other associates and
8 made members of the Chicago Outfit?
9 A. Yes, sir, I did.
10 Q. Let's take one of these individuals as
11 an example. Did Mr. Scarpelli provide you with an
12 overview of the leadership of the Chicago Outfit?
13 A. Yes, sir, he did.
14 Q. Why don't you take a look at Exhibit
15 49. We will pull that out. Probably easiest if
16 you pull the entire file out because the numbers
17 are in the front, not the back.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: Before you mention
19 Mr. Scarpelli, Mr. Leonard Patrick, was he still
20 cooperating with you?
21 THE WITNESS: No, sir.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: Couldn't have now,
23 because you are long gone. When you left was he
24 cooperating? 240
1 THE WITNESS: He was still being interviewed
2 by the FBI but since that time he's medically been
3 shown to be suffering from Alzheimer's or
4 medically incompetent. So, legally he is no
5 longer able to testify.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, I
7 prosecuted Lenny Patrick. I prosecuted him when I
8 was a federal prosecutor, having nothing to do
9 with organized crime. It had to do with contempt,
10 refusal to testify, short trial. He just refused
11 to testify and found in contempt. That was it. I
12 was the lead prosecutor. Okay. I have never
13 spoken to Lenny Patrick.
14 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
15 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, you got GEB Attorney
16 Exhibit No. 49 before you, is that correct?
17 A. Yes, sir. That's correct.
18 Q. The marking there is a little bit
19 confusing. The marking of the GEB exhibit appears
20 at the bottom of the middle of the page. There is
21 also an exhibit sticker at the top of the page.
22 It says Government Exhibit 91. Do you know where
23 this document came from?
24 A. It was introduced in Federal Court and
241
1 it was part of a federal judge's ruling in the
2 suppression hearing which was an attempt to
3 suppress the statement, which failed on the part
4 of Mr. Scarpelli's attorney.
5 Q. What is this document?
6 A. This is a report of interview, or
7 FD302, Chicago prepared following our interview of
8 Mr. Scarpelli.
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let me ask you a
10 question. Was this, was this in a case in which
11 Mr. Scarpelli was the defendant?
12 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. He was the subject
13 of the case.
14 THE HEARING OFFICER: He was indicted, and
15 there was a motion to suppress this particular
16 document or testimony relating to it as an
17 admission or confession, is that right?
18 THE WITNESS: That's correct, sir. He was
19 arrested in possession of a machine gun, while
20 en route to commit an armed robbery in Bradley,
21 Illinois. And then that evening, into the
22 morning, we then interviewed him. And this was
23 the result.
24 THE HEARING OFFICER: And then he was 242
1 eventually prosecuted. And this document was the
2 motion, the subject of a motion to suppress.
3 THE WITNESS: That's correct. But he was
4 never prosecuted, because he committed suicide at
5 the federal MCC about one hour after the
6 suppression hearing upheld his statement.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: But was he the only
8 defendant?
9 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, he was.
10 THE HEARING OFFICER: This was going to be
11 used or possibly was to be used in case against
12 him, is that right?
13 THE WITNESS: Against him, and then there
14 were certain other admissions that he made that
15 would have been the basis for additional spinoff
16 investigation.
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: No, but I mean directly
18 against him at the trial.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. That's correct.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay, all right.
21 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
22 Q. One further question, if you were to go
23 to the court file, clerk of the court, can you
24 pick this document up? 243
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. In fact, isn't that just what we did?
3 A. That's correct, yes, sir.
4 MR. BOSTWICK: I move the admission of
5 Exhibit 49.
6 MR. CARMELL: On what basis? What is this
7 relevant to?
8 MR. BOSTWICK: To leadership of the Chicago
9 outfit. We are going to go through this.
10 MR. CARMELL: Is that what it's for, for the
11 statements of Mr. Scarpelli? I see there are
12 interlineations here. We've got a huge statement
13 here. What are we putting it in for, Mr. Hearing
14 Officer?
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Let's go over the first
16 part. It's a huge statement. There is a lot of
17 information in here. I believe that your purpose,
18 this is either original or corroborative evidence
19 of something else, or about the Chicago mob, is
20 what you are saying.
21 MR. BOSTWICK: Yes. As a matter of fact, we
22 have delineated a couple of short, two or
23 three-page excerpts or selections here which we
24 wanted to have him run through. They relate to 244
1 individuals on both of these charts.
2 MR. CARMELL: Well, I haven't had a chance --
3 MR. BOSTWICK: Pages 6 and 7.
4 MR. CARMELL: Pages 6 and 7?
5 MR. BOSTWICK: Is the primary.
6 MR. CARMELL: Well, so I understand, there is
7 nothing in here that, or does it, that mentions
8 the name of any member -- strike that -- any
9 officer or delegate of the Chicago District
10 Council?
11 MR. BOSTWICK: That's incorrect.
12 MR. CARMELL: That's incorrect?
13 MR. BOSTWICK: Yes.
14 MR. CARMELL: Then show me where it is, so I
15 can know what I'm doing.
16 MR. BOSTWICK: I'm not sure why we are doing
17 it this way.
18 MR. CARMELL: Because this is a statement of
19 a dead person. You are putting it into evidence
20 for what purpose? If it's merely to establish
21 what his view is of the structure of it, I want to
22 know that.
23 But if it's also going in for one of
24 the persons who is, has been an officer, is or has
245
1 been an officer or delegate, it just becomes a --
2 tell me where it is, and I can look at it.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Carmell, I must
4 tell you that its precedential value in the
5 Teamsters, many, many cases, in the cases
6 involving the trusteeship of the Teamsters,
7 information like this comes in, to be corroborated
8 by other information that may be technically
9 hearsay.
10 So, I mean, as I told you earlier, I
11 will admit this, these documents. But they must
12 be corroborative or structured in such a fashion
13 that other, other items back them up. But let's
14 hear -- I think it's unfair to put all 40 pages in
15 here.
16 MR. CARMELL: Your view of the Teamsters
17 cases are not accurate, because I've been in
18 them. And they are required to say what part of
19 this document is coming in for what purpose.
20 All I'm saying is, if he is saying it
21 is to show the structure as this person, Mr.
22 Scarpelli, knew it, of whatever you want to call
23 it, it's one thing.
24 I asked him, is there any names of the
246
1 former members of the Chicago District Council
2 present, so I can see whether those persons are
3 supposed to be part of the structure, or they are
4 just an extraneous, as far as this hearing is
5 concerned.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, I agree that
7 there ought to be portions of this that ought to
8 be extraneous; when I see some names of some
9 lawyers I've known in the past floating in and out
10 of here, I don't know if it's meant to be part of
11 this.
12 Mr. Bostwick, I see you have some
13 portions of this blocked out.
14 MR. BOSTWICK: Yes. I can tell you --
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: That is what you intend
16 to center on?
17 MR. BOSTWICK: Exactly.
18 MR. CARMELL: Okay.
19 THE HEARING OFFICER: You are not intending
20 to -- for whatever purpose you are going to be
21 putting those in, you say they are relevant, the
22 rest of the documents might make interesting
23 reading, but it's those parts are the ones that
24 have relevance to this particular hearing, is that
247
1 right?
2 MR. BOSTWICK: Have particular relevance.
3 I would argue that the entire document
4 is corroborative of the structure, the leadership
5 of organized crime. But the items that are
6 bracketed specifically here are particularly
7 relevant to this hearing, and there's only three
8 pages.
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: In fairness to
10 everybody, including me, at the end of this, I
11 don't want to go wandering through here with a red
12 pen, trying to figure out what is supposed to be
13 relevant.
14 We are going to 1, 2, 3 --
15 MR. BOSTWICK: Pages 1, Pages 6 and 7.
16 THE HEARING OFFICER: That is about all.
17 MR. BOSTWICK: That's it.
18 MR. CARMELL: Why don't we do, Mr. Vaira,
19 what counsel has already done, which has helped in
20 PCOC and the rest, he took, he only took those
21 pages and put them in. Why can't we just take
22 those pages and put them in, so there will be no
23 mistake.
24 Hear me out. If he then wants to come
248
1 back again from another witness on something else,
2 we will have that. I don't like seeing
3 50-some-odd pages come in and be, and said, we are
4 only interested in three pages. Let's put the
5 three pages in.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Probably what goes
7 before, pages that go after it, give it some
8 context.
9 MR. CARMELL: I don't like that either. I
10 agree there is going to be some construction on
11 that.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, back here I
13 see Page 7.
14 MR. CARMELL: Right.
15 THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bostwick, if you
16 take the totality of 1 through 7, would that give
17 it some internal integrity?
18 MR. BOSTWICK: Well, this is, I think I'd say
19 1 through 9 would give it a little more in terms
20 of consistency. But I'm willing to, the rest is
21 fine. It's, I'm used to having the objection the
22 other way. I'm not trying to excerpt the
23 document. You know, we argue about completeness.
24 But it's fine with me if we want to 249
1 simply, if everybody wants to tear off the first
2 nine pages, and make that the exhibit, as opposed
3 to have 45 pages of it, I have no problem with
4 that.
5 The only other --
6 MR. CARMELL: I would have no objection then.
7 THE HEARING OFFICER: 1 through 9, sir. Go
8 ahead.
9 MR. BOSTWICK: We can, if my colleague, Mr.
10 Thomas, will write a note on that, we can redo
11 those by tomorrow.
12 THE HEARING OFFICER: Don't mention it.
13 MR. CARMELL: We'll do it. We will make
14 copies of the pages, and then it's covered. Thank
15 you.
16 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
17 Q. Mr. O'Rourke --
18 MR. BOSTWICK: Well, I move for admission.
19 I'm not sure if, with that, it's admitted.
20 THE HEARING OFFICER: Page 1 through 9, we'll
21 admit.
22 (WHEREUPON, said document,
23 previously marked GEB Attorney Exhibit
24 No. 49, for identification, was 250
1 offered and received in evidence as
2 GEB Attorney Exhibit No. 39.)
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: What number is this?
4 MR. BOSTWICK: This is Exhibit 49; it's at
5 the very bottom, the middle of the first page.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: I see, okay.
7 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
8 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, just give us a very brief
9 background on Mr. Scarpelli, and how it was that
10 you came to interview him.
11 A. Gerald Scarpelli historically was a
12 burglar, armed robber, bank robber, specializing
13 in armored trucks, and jewelry robberies.
14 He became a member of the Chicago
15 outfit and was a hit man, collector and enforcer
16 in part of the Joe Ferriola Cicero crew, at the
17 time of his arrest in 1988.
18 From about '79 until '88, he was a
19 target of an FBI investigation, which I and my
20 partner were case agents.
21 He was dealing with a cooperating
22 witness, who was a former member of organized
23 crime, James Peter Basile, a/k/a Duke Basile.
24 Q. That was the cooperating witness? 251
1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Who was he cooperating with?
3 A. Cooperating with the FBI.
4 Q. You in particularly?
5 A. Myself in particular, yes, sir.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. He wore a concealed body recorder, met
8 with Gerry Scarpelli on a regular basis, over a
9 two-year period, discussing organized crime
10 related matters, loansharking, street tax, and so
11 on. Basile had been part of the collection crew
12 himself prior to that.
13 THE HEARING OFFICER: Can I stop you? I
14 should have done this before we started. We are
15 going to go into, it looks like you are going to
16 take a little time here with the descriptions of
17 Scarpelli.
18 It's been a couple hours. I think
19 everybody needs a ten, twelve minute, 15 minute
20 break. Let's do that before you get too far into
21 it.
22 MR. BOSTWICK: 4:15?
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: That would be fine.
24 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had.) 252
1 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Sherman.
2 Dwight.
3 MR. BOSTWICK: Everybody ready to proceed?
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Ready to go, sir.
5 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
6 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, you had just finished
7 describing who Mr. Scarpelli was and how he
8 came -- how you came to speak with him. That
9 information generally is memorialized in the first
10 couple of pages?
11 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
12 Q. Let's turn directly then to page 6 and
13 the highlighted portions there. Do you see that?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did you ever in the course of this
16 interview, did you discuss with Mr. Scarpelli the
17 current structure of organized crime in Chicago as
18 of this date, as of 1988?
19 A. Yes, sir, I did.
20 Q. Following along with the highlighted
21 portions on both pages 6 and 7, why don't you
22 simply describe for us what he told you and make
23 reference to that as needed.
24 A. Yes, sir. Jerry Scarpelli was 253
1 questioned concerning the structure of organized
2 crime.
3 He said that Sam or Samuel Carlisi was
4 the current boss of the Chicago mob as of 1988.
5 Q. Okay. We have got Mr. Carlisi on this
6 chart, Exhibit 163, is that right?
7 Maybe you need to pull the smaller
8 chart. I don't want to strain your eyes. It's
9 Exhibit 163.
10 MR. CARMELL: Mr. Hearing Officer, could we
11 identify what period of time this document is
12 purporting to cover or what time frame or
13 snapshot?
14 MR. BOSTWICK: Why don't I -- when I
15 introduce it can I lay those foundational
16 questions?
17 MR. CARMELL: Okay.
18 MR. BOSTWICK: I just want to refer a little
19 bit to the chart as we go as a demonstrative aid,
20 and then I'll admit it at the end of this portion
21 if that's all right.
22 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. Yes, sir. 254
1 Q. You have Exhibit 163 in front of you?
2 A. Yes, sir, I do.
3 Q. That is on this Exhibit 163?
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. Is that the same Carlisi?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 Q. All right. Continue.
8 A. He said his former immediate boss,
9 Joseph Ferriola, also known as Joe Negal, was
10 probably the underboss of the mob. He explained
11 that Joe Ferriola was sick with a serious heart
12 disease and had recently been not real active and
13 was expected to die. As a result, Scarpelli
14 stated Ferriola has not been seeing anybody.
15 He advised that he had long been a
16 member of Joe Ferriola's crew which was being
17 presently run by Ernest Rocco Infelise also known
18 as Rocky Infelise.
19 Q. I am going to stop you there. Joe
20 Ferriola is on this chart as well?
21 A. Yes, sir, he is.
22 Scarpelli stated that this crew
23 operated in the Cicero, Illinois area, the western
24 part of Cook County and Lake County, Illinois. 255
1 Scarpelli stated a second crew was
2 headed by James La Pietra, a/k/a Jimmy La Pietra,
3 the brother of Angelo La Pietra and was centered
4 around the old Italian neighborhood at 26th and
5 Princeton Street in Chicago and was referred to by
6 Scarpelli as the Chinatown crew.
7 Scarpelli stated that this crew was
8 headed by Jimmy La Pietra and consists of Frank
9 Calabrese, Ronald Jarrett, presently in federal
10 prison, John Fecarotta, who was murdered last
11 year, would have been in 1987, and a number of
12 others from the neighborhood.
13 Q. Okay. Now, I will stop you there. We
14 have got the 26th Street crew here and under it it
15 says select members and associates on Exhibit
16 163. Some of the individuals you just read
17 relating to the 26th Street crew appear on this
18 chart?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. For example, James La Pietra?
21 A. Correct. Angelo La Pietra.
22 Q. Angelo La Pietra. And Frank?
23 A. Frank Calabrese.
24 Q. But not all? 256
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. All right. Go ahead. Continue.
3 A. Scarpelli disclosed that a third crew
4 was headed by John Di Fronzo, also known as Johnny
5 Bananas, Johnny No Nose, and was centered in the
6 Elmwood Park, Illinois area.
7 Scarpelli stated that the Di Fronzo
8 crew was very tight, very strong, commented that
9 you can't do anything in Elmwood Park without
10 permission.
11 Scarpelli stated that one of the
12 principal members of this crew was Marco Damico, a
13 long time --
14 Q. Let me stop you there. Marco Damico is
15 on this chart?
16 A. Yes, sir, he is under others.
17 Q. Okay. That is Exhibit 163?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And who is -- who did Mr. Scarpelli
20 indicate that Marco Damico was?
21 A. He said he was a long-time member of
22 the Chicago crime syndicate and owned several
23 hot dog stands along the north side of the city.
24 Scarpelli stated that Vincent Solano,
257
1 the president of the Laborers International Union,
2 runs the north side crew and Rush Street.
3 Scarpelli advised --
4 Q. Okay. Let me stop you there. We have
5 north side crew on this chart of the Chicago
6 Outfit?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Select members and associates. Vince
9 Solano appears on that?
10 A. Yes, sir, he does.
11 Q. These are in alphabetical order, is
12 that correct?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. Mr. Solano is highlighted. What is the
15 reason for that?
16 A. He is highlighted because of his direct
17 association with the Laborers International Union.
18 Q. The International Union?
19 A. Excuse me. The Laborers International
20 Union, Chicago District Council and Local 1. He
21 is a delegate to the Chicago District Council.
22 MR. CARMELL: Just to clarify. That is not
23 what Scarpelli said. It's what Mr. O'Rourke is
24 clarifying. 258
1 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
2 MR. CARMELL: Just a moment.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead.
4 MR. CARMELL: He did read correctly what
5 Mr. Scarpelli said as being, quote, "president of
6 the Laborers International Union," and the next
7 questions that came were clarification from
8 Mr. O'Rourke, is that correct?
9 MR. BOSTWICK: That's correct.
10 MR. CARMELL: Scarpelli didn't make any
11 clarifications concerning this.
12 MR. BOSTWICK: That's right.
13 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
14 Q. My clarification, and just so you are
15 clear, Mr. O'Rourke, and then your testimony is
16 clear, is what is the reason that Vince Solano is
17 highlighted? Why is he highlighted on that chart,
18 Exhibit 163?
19 A. Because of his direct connection with
20 the Chicago District Council and Local 1 of the
21 laborers union.
22 THE HEARING OFFICER: He mentioned him
23 generically. Mr. Scarpelli mentioned him
24 generically as being associated with the LIUNA 259
1 wherever he is, and these gentlemen took that
2 generic definition and put it on this chart.
3 I presume that the purpose of this
4 chart is taking information other persons have
5 given to him, taking and putting a yellow marker
6 on.
7 MR. BOSTWICK: That's right.
8 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
9 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
10 Q. Then you were continuing about another
11 crew?
12 A. Yes, sir. Scarpelli advised that this
13 crew was headed by Albert -- let's see -- that
14 this crew was headed by Albert Caesar Tocco, a/k/a
15 Al Tocco, and runs the south Chicago suburbs,
16 Chicago Heights, Calumet City and parts of Lake
17 County.
18 Scarpelli referred to this as the
19 Chicago Heights crew and identified Al Tocco as
20 the boss of this crew.
21 Scarpelli stated that he knows Albert
22 Rosetti, Michael Guzzino and a few other members
23 of this crew but is not too involved familiar or
24 involved with the Tocco crew. 260
1 Q. We have got Mr. Tocco, Albert Tocco,
2 down at the bottom of the others section on
3 Exhibit 163, is that correct?
4 A. Yes, sir, correct.
5 Q. And Gerald Scarpelli actually appears
6 there as well?
7 A. Yes, he does.
8 Q. And I believe you mentioned Michael
9 Guzzino, but we have a Nicholas Guzzino there?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. But that is not the Michael that you
12 just referred to, right?
13 A. I believe it was meant to be Nicholas,
14 but it was -- he said Michael.
15 Q. Okay. Well, in other words, that is
16 not the Michael that we have put up there. We
17 have put -- Nicholas Guzzino is not on this chart
18 because he is referenced in here as Michael?
19 A. This was from the interview and the
20 notes at the time. Michael Guzzino.
21 Q. Fine.
22 A. There is one more.
23 Q. One more little portion down there at
24 the bottom. 261
1 A. With regards to the Grand Avenue crew,
2 Scarpelli stated that this crew was previously run
3 by Joseph Lombardo, a/k/a Joey the Clown Lombardo,
4 who was convicted of racketeering at Kansas City
5 Missouri, and was presently serving a lengthy
6 federal prison sentence as of 1988.
7 Q. Did you also indicate that James
8 Marcello at the bottom -- do you see that?
9 A. Yes, sir. Scarpelli advised that James
10 Marcello, also known as Jimmy Marcello, was also a
11 boss in the Outfit and was very close to Black Sam
12 Carlisi, who was then the boss of the Chicago
13 family.
14 Q. There is a James Marcello on this chart
15 as well?
16 A. Yes, sir, he is.
17 Q. Under the others section in Exhibit
18 163?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, did Mr. Scarpelli admit
21 to criminal conduct in the course of his interview
22 with you?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Conduct related to organized crime? 262
1 A. Yes, he did.
2 Q. Very briefly what was the nature of
3 those admissions?
4 A. He admit -- he admitted his involvement
5 in four murders, organized by or ordered by
6 organized crime bosses. He admitted involvement
7 in beatings, extortion, shake-downs of individuals
8 and planned robberies of an armored truck, a
9 planned robbery that he was arrested for, and
10 possession of a submachine gun.
11 Q. Those are not described, those murders
12 and that activity is not described in the first
13 ten pages but in the pages that we are not going
14 to use as part of the exhibit, is that correct?
15 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
16 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, who is Richie Mara?
17 A. Richard Mara, Richie Mara was a former
18 resident of the 26th Street neighborhood, a member
19 of the 26th Street crew. He was a burglar, armed
20 robber, cartage thief, jewelry robber, who
21 operated in the 1960s and 1970s.
22 Q. Did Mr. Mara testify in any federal
23 criminal trial relating to organized crime?
24 A. Yes, he did. 263
1 Q. Do you recall which ones?
2 A. Mr. Mara testified in a theft
3 interstate shipment case in federal court. And he
4 may have testified in other federal organized
5 crime cases. I do not recall now.
6 Q. Of the ones you recall, was there, were
7 there convictions that resulted from, in part,
8 from his testimony?
9 A. Yes, there were.
10 Q. Do you recall how many?
11 A. At least one, and possibly others. He
12 was cooperating witness in a case in which he was
13 a subject. And because of his cooperation and
14 testimony, all of the defendants in that case
15 entered pleas of guilty before the trial.
16 Q. Do you recall how many pleas of guilty
17 there were?
18 A. Yes. Anthony Gallichio, Gerald
19 Shallow, Jeffrey Paul Ater, three, and Richard
20 Mara, four.
21 Q. Can I refer you to Exhibit 78?
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. You can put that back. We are done
24 with the Scarpelli exhibit. 264
1 MR. CARMELL: What number was that?
2 MR. BOSTWICK: 78.
3 MR. CARMELL: 78?
4 MR. BOSTWICK: Yeah.
5 THE HEARING OFFICER: What period of time was
6 Mara cooperating witness, Mr. O'Rourke?
7 THE WITNESS: Late 1970s through early 1980s,
8 Mr. Mara.
9 THE HEARING OFFICER: He has dropped out
10 since that time?
11 THE WITNESS: He entered the witness security
12 program, yes.
13 BY THE WITNESS:
14 A. What was the -- I'm sorry.
15 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
16 Q. Exhibit 78. Mr. O'Rourke --
17 THE HEARING OFFICER: 78, go ahead.
18 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
19 Q. Do you recognize this document?
20 A. Yes, sir. I do.
21 Q. What is it?
22 A. It is a report of interview, prepared
23 on September 17th through 25th of 1980, by a
24 special agent Ray Shryock, of Richie, who was 265
1 actually Richard John Mara, the cooperating
2 subject.
3 Q. Did you have personal interviews and
4 contact with Mr. Mara relating to the structure
5 and workings of organized crime in Chicago?
6 A. Yes, sir, I did.
7 Q. Does this 302 accurately reflect the
8 types of information that he provided to you?
9 A. Yes, sir, it does.
10 Q. What is the date on that 302?
11 A. September 17th through the 25th, 1980.
12 There were several days of debriefing.
13 MR. BOSTWICK: I'd move admission of Exhibit
14 78.
15 MR. CARMELL: One second, please. Is this
16 basically for the highlighted part?
17 MR. BOSTWICK: That's exactly right. It's a
18 five-page document.
19 MR. CARMELL: For the purposes you stated, no
20 objection.
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: You may go ahead, with
22 that admission.
23 (WHEREUPON, said document,
24 previously marked GEB Attorney Exhibit
266
1 No. 78, for identification, was
2 offered and received in evidence as
3 GEB Attorney Exhibit No. 78.)
4 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
5 Q. I'd ask you to refer, if you can,
6 simply to the -- you can read it, if you wish, but
7 if you want to summarize that information based on
8 what Mr. Mara told you, that's fine. I'd just
9 like for you to relate some of the individuals
10 that he told you about as being members of the
11 organized crime structure here in Chicago.
12 A. Yes, sir. First paragraph: Joseph
13 Aiuppa was the boss of the Chicago mob. Jackie,
14 he is, the last name, Jackie Cerone, was the
15 underboss.
16 Tony Accardo was definitely retired,
17 but was still a consultant in part of the inner
18 circle.
19 Gus Alex, Butch Blasi, Bruno, an
20 attorney, and Pat Marcy are also part of the inner
21 circle. Gus Alex has long been known as the one
22 in charge of loop activities. Butch Blasi is
23 troubleshooter for Joey Aiuppa and Tony Accardo.
24 Bruno, the attorney, is Accardo's attorney. 267
1 Pat Marcy is the biggest fix man
2 political influence for the mob.
3 Q. Let's just clarify that, so there are
4 no misunderstandings. We have a Bruno Caruso up
5 there. The Bruno referred to there has nothing to
6 do with that?
7 A. No, sir. It does not. He is a now
8 deceased Chicago attorney who was a long time
9 attorney for Tony Accardo.
10 Q. That is the last name, that's Bruno?
11 A. His last name is Bruno, yes, sir.
12 Q. Who is Marcy?
13 A. Marcy is a Pat Marcy, now deceased, who
14 was the former ward committeeman of the first ward
15 in City of Chicago, who died prior to his trial on
16 racketeering and corruption activities.
17 Q. Was this information provided before
18 Mr. Marcy was indicted?
19 A. Yes, it was.
20 Q. A number of those names, I would go
21 through them, but are up on this chart, is that
22 not correct?
23 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
24 Q. The chart meaning Exhibit 163, okay. 268
1 Go ahead and continue about the --
2 A. Mara stated there were four crews
3 operating in Chicago area, Grand Avenue crew,
4 headed by Tony Spilotro, and run by Joey Lombardo,
5 as Spilotro oversees the Chicago mob's interest in
6 Las Vegas.
7 Q. Let me stop you there, clarify that as
8 well. We also have a Joe Lombardo, Junior up
9 there. Is it your understanding from your
10 discussions with Mr. Mara that that's Joe
11 Lombardo, Junior or Senior that we are talking
12 about here in this 302?
13 A. He was referring to Joseph Lombardo,
14 Senior, the father of Mr. Lombardo.
15 Q. Okay. Go ahead and continue.
16 A. 26th Street crew or south side crew was
17 headed by Angelo LaPietra. Strongest crew is the
18 Taylor Street crew, headed by Joe Ferriola, the
19 mob's chief enforcer. The Heights area, or the
20 Chicago Heights area, was controlled by Al Tocco.
21 Pilotto was Al Pilotto, was told to retire.
22 Pilotto is now only involved in labor union
23 activities, and is not an active boss anymore. He
24 knows well what happened to Cataura, which is 269
1 James, Jimmy "The Bomber" Cataura, who was
2 murdered when "The Bomber" refused to retire.
3 Q. Let's stop there and explain that a
4 little bit, from your conversation with Mr. Mara,
5 if we can. First of all, Al Pilotto, he is on
6 this chart, is he not?
7 A. Yes, sir, he is.
8 Q. Under here, under this selection of
9 others?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. And again, why is he highlighted in
12 bold on the chart that is marked as Exhibit 163?
13 A. He is highlighted in bold, because he
14 was in charge of the Local 5 of LIUNA, Chicago
15 Heights, for many years, and was convicted of
16 labor related racketeering charges in a trial in
17 Miami, Florida back in 1984.
18 Q. Did he also hold a position in Chicago
19 District Council?
20 A. Yes, sir, he did. He was a delegate,
21 and he was the coordinator of committees.
22 Q. I believe you got that wrong. But
23 that's, the record is going to reflect his
24 position. Are you certain that he was involved in
270
1 Chicago District Council?
2 A. I believe that he was, as a delegate.
3 I could be mistaken.
4 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, what does this, it says
5 in 302 here, he well knows what happened to
6 Cataura, when "The Bomber" refused to retire.
7 What does that refer to?
8 A. Informant information, provided to me,
9 and as well as review of FBI files and Chicago
10 police files at that time indicated that James,
11 known as Jimmy "The Bomber" Cataura, was an
12 old-time mob boss operating in 26th Street,
13 Chinatown area.
14 He was told to retire by
15 representatives of organized crime. Reportedly he
16 refused to do so. And he was then found shot to
17 death around Western and Hubbard Avenue on the
18 near north side of Chicago in the Grand Avenue
19 neighborhood by mob hit men; discovered by
20 police. The murder has never been solved.
21 Q. Okay. And why don't you continue. We
22 don't need any more on that page.
23 Why don't you continue on Page 3.
24 A. Yes, sir. 271
1 Q. The portion that refers to the south
2 side crew.
3 A. Mara stated that Angelo LaPietra is the
4 boss of the south side crew. His two enforcers
5 are Ronnie Jarrett and Frank Calabrese. Jarrett
6 handles juice for Angelo LaPietra. Two additional
7 individuals with LaPietra's crew are Angelo and
8 Anthony Imperato. Anthony, also known as Toburk,
9 is not a made guy.
10 Angelo Imperato, also known as Durgie
11 Imperato, is a made member, handles mostly
12 gambling for LaPietra. James Cordovano is made,
13 and handles gambling and juice.
14 Jerry Scalise and Gerry Scarpelli are
15 also part of LaPietra's crew. These two have been
16 operating on the far south side with Tocco's
17 group. Skid Caruso is now retired. His enforcers
18 were Joe LaMantia and Poopy Meenzy, Skid's area.
19 Chinatown has been given to LaPietra.
20 Q. Okay. Let me ask you questions about
21 that, before we turn the page.
22 Did Gerry Scarpelli, is that the same
23 Gerry Scarpelli which we just referred to in the
24 previous exhibit, who you interviewed? 272
1 A. Yes, sir. It is.
2 Q. And this is information being provided
3 some years before he spoke to you and delineated
4 his involvement in --
5 A. Correct, 1988, following his arrest.
6 This interview occurred in fall of 1980.
7 Q. Skids Caruso, who is referred to at the
8 bottom of the page, does he have any relationship
9 that you are aware of with any of these
10 individuals that are on that Chicago Laborers'
11 District Council chart which is marked as Exhibit
12 145?
13 A. Yes, sir. Frank Tony Caruso, known as
14 Skids Caruso, is the father of Bruno Caruso, and
15 Frank Michael Caruso, also known as "Toots"
16 Caruso, and he is the uncle of Leo Caruso, and he
17 would be the brother-in-law of Fred Roti, an
18 alderman from the first ward.
19 Q. How do you know that?
20 A. I know that from review of FBI files,
21 Chicago police files, interview of informants,
22 interview of cooperating witnesses, such as
23 Richard Mara, over the years, interview of Mr.
24 Bruno Caruso and Leo Caruso in the course of the
273
1 IG's inspection process.
2 Q. Okay. These individuals, some of these
3 individuals, let's just talk about the one here,
4 Frank Tony Caruso, that's the individuals
5 identified --
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. -- highlighted portion on Exhibit 163,
8 Frank Tony Caruso is Skids Caruso?
9 A. Frank Tony Caruso is Skids Caruso, now
10 deceased.
11 Q. Okay. Why don't you continue on Page
12 4.
13 A. With regards to Chicago Heights or
14 south suburbs crew, Mara stated that Al Pilotto is
15 supposed to have been told to retire because of
16 his age; can still be active in labor matters, but
17 not in the day-to-day operation of the Heights.
18 Tocco is the current street boss.
19 However, Ferriola has sent Rocky Infelise to the
20 Heights to help Tocco run the operation. With
21 the --
22 Q. Okay. Let me refer you down there to
23 the Grand Avenue crew. Just read the first
24 paragraph there. I want to ask you a question 274
1 about it.
2 A. Yes, sir. Tony Spilotro is boss of the
3 north side crew. However, since he is in Las
4 Vegas, Joey Lombardo was the street boss.
5 Supposedly, Joe DiVarco and his group
6 are part of the Grand Avenue crew. Vince Solano
7 was a made guy, but handles only labor matters for
8 the mob. He is not a street boss of day-to-day
9 operations.
10 Q. Okay. The reference to Joe DiVarco,
11 there is a Vincent DiVarco on the Chicago District
12 Council Laborers' chart, which is Exhibit 145. Do
13 you see that?
14 A. Yes, sir, I do.
15 Q. Is that any relation?
16 A. He is the son of Joseph Vincent
17 DiVarco, also known as Caesar DiVarco, who died
18 years ago.
19 Q. We have not -- would you like to
20 clarify something you heard earlier today, with
21 respect to Vincent DiVarco, that Mr. Gow testified
22 to?
23 A. Yes. I believe Mr. Gow mistakenly
24 believed that Vince DiVarco, who is the son and 275
1 who was 9 years old or so when his dad died in
2 prison, was identical to the individual on the
3 chart or individual mentioned here.
4 Actually, Vince DiVarco is the son of
5 the person Joseph Vincent DiVarco, or Caesar
6 DiVarco, which is mob boss in charge of Rush
7 Street back in 1980s.
8 Q. We refer you to page 5. And I want you
9 to read those portions if you would.
10 A. Yes, sir. With regards to corruption,
11 Mara stated that John D'Arco's son, John D'Arco,
12 Junior, is the law partner at Robert Cooley,
13 Greco's Restaurants, which is located on the south
14 side of 95th Street in Evergreen Park, according
15 to Mara, was bankrolled by Cooley.
16 Pat Marcy, he stated, was the biggest
17 fix man in Chicago. He and John D'Arco handled
18 all major political problems for the Chicago mob.
19 Q. Let me -- well, go ahead. Continue
20 on.
21 A. He stated that Alderman Roti, which
22 would be Fred Roti of the first ward, has a sister
23 who is married to Skid Caruso; that would be Frank
24 Tony Caruso. Roti's son was recently indicted by
276
1 a federal grand jury in the motor pool fraud case.
2 Q. On the corruption angle here, are you
3 aware of who John D'Arco and Pat Marcy and
4 Alderman Roti are?
5 A. Yes, sir, I am.
6 Q. Were any of those individuals indicted
7 sometime after the -- your discussions with
8 Mr. Mara in the early 1980s?
9 A. They were indicted I believe in the
10 1990s. Pat Marcy was indicted for racketeering
11 and corruption but died before his trial could
12 commence.
13 Fred Roti went on trial, was convicted
14 and was recently released from federal prison and
15 is back home in the Chinatown area of Chicago on
16 federal parol.
17 Q. Are you aware of any relationship
18 between the Fred Roti you are just referring to
19 and any of the individuals on the Chicago Laborers
20 District Council chart?
21 A. Yes, sir. Fred Roti would be the uncle
22 of Bruno Caruso and Frank Toots Babe Caruso and he
23 is also related to Leo Caruso, all of whom are
24 officials of the LIUNA Chicago District Council or
277
1 were.
2 Q. For the record we are referring to
3 Exhibit 145 with that question?
4 A. Yes, sir.
5 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, are there other
6 cooperating witnesses and sources that you have
7 spoken to about the leadership and structure of
8 the Chicago Outfit over the course of time when
9 you were in the FBI?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. Have you heard reportings that
12 corroborate your understanding of structure in the
13 Outfit?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Now, I'd like for you to take a look at
16 this Exhibit 163, which has been blown up, and I'd
17 like to ask you to describe that in a little more
18 detail, how that was prepared.
19 MR. CARMELL: Are we going to break soon?
20 MR. BOSTWICK: As soon as we get done with
21 this. It will be about -- just a few more
22 questions.
23 THE HEARING OFFICER: Sure.
24 MR. BOSTWICK: To finish the chart. 278
1 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
2 Q. Mr. O'Rourke, is this a list of all
3 Outfit members that you are aware of in Chicago?
4 A. No, sir. It's not.
5 Q. Why are -- does it relate specifically
6 to a certain year?
7 A. No, it does not.
8 Q. Why is -- why are these individuals --
9 why have these individuals been selected to be put
10 on this chart?
11 A. The individuals selected have a direct
12 relationship to the Chicago District Council, to
13 LIUNA individuals currently on the Chicago
14 District Council or are mentioned in the course of
15 this investigation and in this hearing that will
16 be discussed and described by myself and in
17 further witnesses appearances.
18 THE HEARING OFFICER: When was this prepared,
19 Exhibit 163?
20 THE WITNESS: I don't know the exact date,
21 Mr. Vaira. It was prepared --
22 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
23 Q. Prepared in preparation for this
24 hearing? 279
1 A. Preparation for this hearing, within
2 the last several months, last couple of months.
3 THE HEARING OFFICER: There have been some
4 changes then I take it. Anthony Accardo is dead,
5 is he not?
6 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. This is not a
7 current list of people that are necessarily
8 alive. These are historical as well as current
9 people together.
10 BY MR. BOSTWICK:
11 Q. In other words, is it fair to
12 characterize this as a list of names of
13 individuals associated with the mob that will come
14 up repeatedly in the hearing as associates of
15 people in the District Council, close associates
16 of people in the District Council or people who
17 are actually in the District Council?
18 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
19 Q. So, it does not, just to clarify again,
20 it does not -- it's not a chart of a snapshot of
21 the Chicago District Council -- I'm sorry -- the
22 Chicago Outfit on a given year or given date?
23 A. That's correct, yes, sir.
24 MR. BOSTWICK: I would move admission of this
280
1 chart as a helpful tool and aid throughout both
2 Mr. O'Rourke's questioning and the questioning of
3 other individuals.
4 THE HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen, you continue
5 to use the chart and if the parts of it are
6 sustained or usable, fine.
7 I have a little reluctance in putting
8 in charts. As I learned in Buffalo, we put up
9 charts and sometimes the witnesses come later and
10 take the charts apart. So, it's for our
11 instructional purpose only. So you can see if you
12 want to scratch on it, do whatever you want to.
13 In other words, it is a continually evolving
14 teaching aid. All right.
15 But we will have to call it something.
16 We will call it what you called it, 163.
17 MR. BOSTWICK: Fine. And that is a very
18 logical breaking point for me, Mr. Vaira. If
19 that's okay.
20 MR. CARMELL: That will be fine for us too.
21 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Now, gentlemen,
22 what time did you say you wanted to start
23 tomorrow?
24 MR. BOSTWICK: 9:00. 281
1 MR. CARMELL: 9 a.m.
2 THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. See you tomorrow
3 then and get a good day's work in and I know that
4 your clients have to have a meeting this evening.
5 MR. CARMELL: Right.
6 THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you.
7 (WHEREUPON, at 4:50 p.m. the
8 hearing was adjourned until
9 Thursday, July 17, 1997, at 9:00 a.m.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24 282
1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
2 ) SS:
3 COUNTY OF C O O K )
4 I, CORINNE T. MARUT, C.S.R. No.
5 84-1968, and MARY KAY BELCOLORE, CSR No. 84-1813,
6 Certified Shorthand Reporters of the State of
7 Illinois, do hereby certify that we reported in
8 shorthand the proceedings had at the hearing
9 aforesaid, and that the foregoing is a true,
10 complete and correct transcript of the proceedings
11 of said hearing as appears from our stenographic
12 notes so taken and transcribed under our personal
13 direction.
14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I do hereunto set
15 my hand at Chicago, Illinois, this day of
16 , .
17
18 CORINNE T. MARUT, C.S.R. No. 84-1968
19 Certified Shorthand Reporter
20
21
22 MARY KAY BELCOLORE, C.S.R. No. 84-1816
23 Certified Shorthand Reporter
24 C.S.R. Certificate No. 84-1968. 283
1 I N D E X
2 WITNESS DX CX RDX RCX EXAM
3 W. DOUGLAS GOW
4 By Mr. Bostwick 25 152
5 197
6 By Mr. Carmell 111 154
7 JOHN J. O'ROURKE
8 By Mr. Bostwick 218
9
10
11 E X H I B I T S
12 NUMBER RECEIVED
13 GEB Exhibit
14 No. 1 41
15 No. 2 47
16 No. 3 223
17 Nos. 4 and 5 82
18 No. 49 249
19 No. 78 265
20 Nos. 118 through 125 57
21 Nos. 145 through 152 63
22
23
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