why

a

dog

is

a

man's

best

friend

:

o

)

(

more

empathetic

to

humans

than

humans

are

to

their

own

species

:

o

(

proactive waiting is often the best course of action

poised to make the most benefit and least hassle of the needed opportunity in the window it presents itself

:

o

)

the above is yet another making sense of a voynich bullshit translation 

“ the non-action of the wise man is not inaction. it is not studied. it is not shaken by anything. the sage is quiet because he is not moved, not because he wills to be quiet… ”

chuang tzu 13:1

proactive waiting is often the best course of action

poised to make the most benefit of the opportunity when it occurs

:

o

)

the above is yet another making sense of a voynich bullshit translation 

“ the non-action of the wise man is not inaction. it is not studied. it is not shaken by anything. the sage is quiet because he is not moved, not because he wills to be quiet… ”

chuang tzu 13:1

you just sit there in the usual male evolutionary self-assertion, unable to countenance your own limitations

mp3

khru writes :

yes, one may “explain” using words...but words are symbolic...code...for the “real” experience which is wordless. we use words because that's the best we have...until we can read minds...perhaps after the space-men arrive?

i can “explain” using words, what it was like to watch my son being born...but as I peered upon his screaming little face for the first time...it was beyond words.

my reply

i would put to you that these “real experiences” are not that wordless and are right throughout poetry, emily dickinson is agood example

and my own writings

it's a fundamental misapprehension to think there are no words because words are memory and it's the alignment and identity of memory with the actuality of infinity, the absolute, buddha or god or whatever you want to call it that it's all about

if your experiences and understanding are real then buddha will give you exciting, fresh and interesting words of understanding and you won't have to repeat voynich crap like bad translations of the tao te ching and dogen

i have been challenging you's here for that evidence for quite a while, but none of you can provide it and are not with a cooee of any originality that speaks what it is about

you don't work and splat out the clichés, when you start to write and think for yourself that's when you start!

i have never had that sort of experience without some words that may be tagged immediately or latently afterwards which is a reflection of some deep schismic shift in understanding that is beyond this world  : o )  !

if that understanding shift doesn't occur, the experience is not valid, and since you lot all talk wrong minded crap you are all getting some reverse effect since it's sending you as fast as you can go in the wrong direction

something to be proud of for sure  : o )

my vision with the sixth patriarch was tagged with “all things are a manifestion of the buddha dharma”

this was authentic because it puts the distance of manifestation between “all things” and “buddha dharma”

all the synthesized mystical advaita and zen experiences come with with the false claim that “all things” ARE the “buddha dharma” which is rubbish

when you have had this experience, it is totally overwhelming so that all the crap artists in the world like yourself and the rest of crud here on the net and in reality mouthing their facile nonsense do not make the slightest dent !

in the end that direct communication is all that matters and that's what i tell whereas you lot just synthesise crap, getting it very wrong and pretending, all for what ?

absolute fucking schizs, vacant arseholes, well that's already known  : o )

that direct communication always places me ten million moves ahead and anyone with half a brain would see it, but you smelly blind shavepates limp blindly on  : o )

khru, you are a breeder, i am sure in the lights of human experience, watching your child being born is profound, but that is shallow compared to the deep mystical experiences, i can't put it any other way

i am childless and lifewise too autistic to have been a parent (i had the sense and luck to avoid that crucifiying road)

your first efforts go to your family, mine to infinity and that's the difference

you are stuck getting the wrong end of a celibate paradigm and the paradigm which is essentially what is covered by wisdom literature like the wisdom of jesus son of sirach you won't walk down, that's road that is open for you, but you yourself hold that door tightly shut

what more can i say, you will never let it go and think your son's birth the depth of mystical experience

the

human view i am afraid

oh

well

i

guess i am writing out, what

i

never

would

have

other

wise

:

o

(

)

college is failure

what no-one ever tells you

is you can learn better on the internet

why

get

in

debt

for

fools

gold?

got the above deleted which was a reply  to

retards mortgaging their lives for worthless degrees, really the quality of american education just sucks!

fish oil helps, provides basic building blocks for the brain, there's quite a bit non-medically you can do, one doesn't have to be helpless : o )

ed. reply to a usual hello poetry depression angst poem

bullshit is as old as the egyptian book of the  dead , just because it's two and a half thousand years old, doesn't mean it's not bullshit  : o )

actually, what were the pyramids except bullshit

:

o

)

(

mark foote, you may think you are safe on brad warners new hczb, protected from any real dealing because i am not allowed to post there and you being able to post the most atrocious bullshit, but the web is wider than an ineptly moderated message board and you are faced with  that  being up on the web until i die, so to remove it you can beg and i might remove your surname or you can put aside your precepts and kill me  : o )

i bet i never hear from him, no doubt he will zone it out with zazen !

i've really roasted a few people over the years, never had one fucking reply, they all run like mice

:

o

)

(

the patheticness of mark foote who writes/quotes :

“ and, as in uffish thought he stood,

the jabberwock,  with eyes of flame

came whiffling through the tulgey wood,

and burbled as it came! ”

‘tis some visitor,’ i muttered, ‘whiffling through the tulgey wood -

only this, and nothing more’

“ the non-action of the wise man is not inaction. it is not studied. it is not shaken by anything. the sage is quiet because he is not moved, not because he wills to be quiet… ”   (chuang tzu)

-----------------

my

reply

this is such an exercise in religious crappola

he starts with a really good lewis carroll quote, you can feel the power and presence of the writing and he uses that to validate the crap that comes afterwards, the pure voynich of his distorted quote of poe and  the voynich chang tzu !

it's really bad and mean spirited and takes the authentic (lewis caroll) and pollutes it with the inauthentic, his own shit and the chang tzu

you wanking sicko mark!!!!!!

F-U-C-K the way you bought into bloody bullshit and nonsense and promulgate it sucking of the originality and real thought of lewis carroll and poe, means you are the lowest of the low, you are like a diseased leper compared to the light and discernment of dodgson and poe !

call me a jabberwock  ; o )

there are skills in being open that one can become more proficient at

i have a considerable background in christian saints and bible reading

there's a context there that you don't have

what can look a bit spacy to you is highly contextualized and allusive

there's awhole vocabularly that is not that accessible to you

there is alot of literary and historical context to christianity and  “god”

hey viva the revolution !

spell spiel phonetically

speil!

actually that sort of voynich nonsense quoted just below is very zen

“grunt buddhism”  just be and don't think

they actually remove the only  road  available to them !

that's the book for the  wisdom of jesus son of sirach, not any old book in the bible

:

o

)

(

some voynich crap :

“ those who know

cannot explain…

and those who can explain

do not know…

therefore,

reject teachings

renounce brilliance

abandon ingenuity

forget about words and ideas

empty and follow the ancient path… ”

my reply

those who know can explain

those who don't know schizophrenically spit their trash on the hczb and batgap  : o )

therefore reject teachings as they are a load of crap, do not renounce brilliance or ingenuity as these are giftings of infinity and forget about emptying and following the ancient path as this is a fiction  : o )

----------------------

ed. i found out later the quote (tao te ching chapter 56) is from a piss poor translation by one of the usual pygmies that seem to float around now, one ray grigg !

i don't think much of ray grigg as a translator, the usual poor schema overriding any sense or feeling for the text so characteristic of teachers and academics

i have re-translated it  (from)  more directly to what makes sense, much more like a western wisdom tradition actually

“ be careful what you say

fools spew forth their idiocy to their peril

don't be ruled by appetites or sentimental foolishness

beware of wielding a sharp sword, those cut are resentful

work to simplify things

tall poppies get cut down, be careful

friends can be nore fatal than enemies ”

the miracle is we can be unbound as well as bound

it's the touching of infinity that's the freedom, of course it takes quite abit of working through in real life and actually a lot of luck as well !

i have added a line to eileen's   poem

Solitary confinement

Every man

keeps prisoner

his own heart

  i walk alone

    my heart is free  : o )

women may know what men are like, but men surely don't know what women are like

:

o

)

(

women may know what men are like, but men   surely don't know what women are like  :  o  )

there's a fundamental equality between people, intellectually retarded, genius

sometimes

it's

hard

to

tell

the

difference

:

o

)

there's a fundamental equality between people, intellectually retarded, genius

sometimes

it's

hard

to

tell

the

difference

:

o

)

cowardice is the better part of valour

:

o

)

(

cowardice is the better part of valour  : o )

they pulled it  down,  then they  rebuilt  it

:

o

)

(

they pulled it  down,  then they  rebuilt  it  : o )

must have been a bit of an odd feeling for p. to met his relatives like that, biological ones are always interesting cause of the similarities, sorta quite comforting really, one isn’t the only crazy person in the universe this way : o )

cut right back on wheat and get a digital thermometer and pasturize any fruit and salads to 68C to kill any bacteria and fungal/biofilm spores

post 50 is not a benign world and you need to be proactive to avoid the problems ; o )

early

  spring, female hormones,must be something in the cream  : o (

rather remarkable, how things have changed in music, each  orchestra  member recording at home, no doubt with some synchronising tapes so that effectively it's  an orchestra created  by  layering

behind the scenes  clip

in the end, what they make needn't conform to any semblance or similitude of quality thinking, internal consistency

the entire movie could have been a dalek going around in an eternal circle and perhaps it was?

ed. reply  to

the misery of being on autistic spectrum and getting older and having all the health problems come crashing in

i offered my  compendium  and bcd advice to donna  willams  and amanda  baggs   many years ago, but oh they knew better, rather than give any attention they banned me

well

time

has

shown

i

don't

wish

them

ill

but

by

god

they

are

an

example

of

what

happens

when

the

road

of

willful

ignorance

is

taken

both artistically very talented but  “blighted flowers”  so to speak, donna william's mother was an alcoholic and donna may have been born with fetal alcohol syndrome and amanda baggs (  a damaged genius    potentially a genius intelligence ! ) was cast into institutional pyschiatric care as a child with it's dehabilitating drugs and toxic diet and the murderous filament of drug side effects reaching up to render her physically disabled at a very young age !

whatever else life is, fairness is not on that list : o )

i think the good were lucky to die young once now it drags on indefinitely in some murderous state  : o (

if and when it happens to me, if i hang around, then know me for a fake !

filament  eruption  onthe sun

my aggression on the web is to sort those who are really open from those who are not, but the result is almost always they are not open

“ i've had a few moments not sure they were visions but something occurred

i saw u when i was 20 i know that i knew u were there and we would meet ”

well i saw you too, years before we met , a sort of a vision in the jackaroo, driving back from gawler, you were sitting beside me

there are people like ourselves across the ages

that's who one writes for

even a few generations like les murray

because there's no-one like us in our generation we think there's no-one else, but history and writing shows there are others

we are both extremely autistic and unsually talented, i hope you can see that yourself and your poems

it's a very different paradigm

look we differ, if there is to be a workable relationship then there has to be more live and let live

you are being very aggressive and sorta looking for some ideal you have about what the relationship should be that's not there

i am getting more confident and less the usual  “competent depressive”  supporting others in their idioacy

  because they are fuckwits in ther shells that don't want to see outside themselves  : o )

a murmuration of  starlings  : o )

on the shannon river ireland,  filmakers

suzanne  foxton  ran an interesting experiment on facebook  (september 1st 2012)

“ if you read this, leave one word on how we met. only one word, then copy this to your wall so i can leave a word for you. please don't add your word and not bother to copy ”

lol, bit of a one way street isn't it, you entertain them and they don't do anything except write their own stuff  : o )

i couldn't find one reply that had copied to their “wall”, even her mother who had some excuse about not understanding how to copy  : o )

what is it about you suzanne  that they are afraid to have your word on their wall?

too violating of personal boundaries ?  clams who don't like their shells tapped?

mercola has been reading my sun and skin  page

54,000  views  and what do we get  here,  a schizophrenic applying once every two months who willfully doesn't read the  agreement,  yet begs for help to  “get rid of the mercury”

he oversimplifies but basically it's not too far off

his recommendation of 8000iu daily tho is way too high imo, more like 500 to 1000iu, tho people's absorbtion and need varies considerably : o )

yeah the solarmeter  6.4  is the way to go ! vitamin D can be made right down to a sun altitude of 40 degrees, it just becomes more penal : o )

judaism is   all enshrinement of the stupidity   of the middle class

: o )

judaism is   all the enshrinement of the stupidity   of the middle class

: o )

judaism is the enshrinement of all the stupidity of the middle class

: o )

judaism is the enshrinement of   all the stupidity of the middle class

: o )

idionic 1                         idionic 2                         idionic 3

anonymouse, look at syria !  (ed. 2012 civil war)

(ed. a commenter on foxton's blog blathering the usual “vast openess” and “I think that people naturally realise that we are all in this together and also that we naturally want to help and make a positive contribution during our limited time on the planet” )

frightened of the sniping that you cannot put a name to what you say?

suzanne foxton is a real person who is not afraid to show her life in an intelligent way and really it's a discussion with herself, helping her and us to see things  : o )

why don't you  endless twits in advaita  get that hiding identities and blabbing  blabbling   the falsely abstract  is nothing but a self con?

you may as well get it right as wrong : o )

advaita is the same as zen, it's the world's biggest collection of mice i have ever seen  : o )

mice frightened at the shadow of a cat get impaled on the real claws of their timidity about the wrong things  : o )

what i was saying is she puts her life up on the net which includes heroin addiction and is not judgemental about herself

whereas that anonymous guy is to timid to say who he is (steven?)

basically  “spiritual investigation”  involves some transparency about who we are and our lives but the zen and advaita wankers hide their identities

in real life you may know who they are, but they still shield themselves and their lives by the  most bleary confuscating  bullshit  : o )

being autistic :

experience

doesn't

teach,

the

advice

of

others

doesn't

teach,

it's

only

the

development

of

a

theory

of

mind

that

teaches

:

o

)

(

being autistic

experience

doesn't

teach

the

advice

of

others

doesn't

teach

it's

only

the

development

of

a

theory

of

mind

that

teaches

:

o

(

)

being autistic

experience

doesn't

teach

the

advice

of

others

doesn't

teach

it's

only

the

development

of

a

theory

of

mind

that

teaches

:

o

)

(

being autistic

experience

doesn't

teach

the

advice

of

others

doesn't

teach

it's

only

the

development

of

a

theory

of

mind

that

teaches

hey harry, you are going to be written into “the koans of the 7th patriarch” as the fall guy : o )

harry writes:

“ the whole universe in ten directions is just one human body ”

my reply:

nup. it's  just  one human brain, yours!

you think you are quoting dogen, but it's a voynichy mistranslation

“ the mind is the sky, the stars, the clouds, the stones ”

there is no mind, the sky, stars, stones and clouds are themselves  : o )

harry writes:

... and maybe (ed. you should) consider getting a humour gland installed.

my reply:

humour is awhole brain function : o )

there is no self so who would practice ?

( ed. “practice” is some retarded zen notion, about what i am not sure what ? self and life improvement HA HA ! )

however,   there is valid work

what i would say is “as it is” is actually a mis-interpretation of this work, that really “as it is” is not some goldfish or drunkards state of being present

so that's all it's really about, zen, advaita, mysticism, this work, tho there are some things that flow from that, but imo it's really better to discover those things oneself !

so what is central is this sort of objective questioning and sorting out and it needs a substantial amount of solitude, writing and reading

the point of unicorns is they are part of an imaginary universe that at it's best includes the hunting of the snark and alice in wonder land, that is, it is complementary and even surpasses the real

zen is overfocused on “reality” and misses this huge imaginary dimension that is so important  : o )

you ask about my practice or whatever, in fact my life overall is much more akin to dogen and the celibate tradition which is why of course i have this edge over contemporary zen practioners caught in the conflict between family and relationship demands and attentions and affections and the extreme abrogation of life that zen and advaita are fundamentally about

so zen as currently practiced is a misapplication of an approach that is now not fitting the modern world at all, which is why it is in such a bad state now

notions of teachers are crazy, and being guided, really what's around now is quite second rate, ku san sumin was the last quality zennist : o )

when you are in zen, you are in a crayfish pot, all the spines against you to get out, but they can be negotiated and release obtained : o )

nishijma is not up to par, that's probably where things are at for you and the other nutters in that group : o )

you have to step up to the real level which is kusan, the sixth and seventh patriarchs, heraclitis and  epictetus,  sappho, keats, emily dickinson, sa'di

you just inch forward and that's pretty how much it goes

zen retreats only work if there is a reasonable gap in one's understanding compared to the teacher/retreat leader and i was fortunate when i started zen to attend retreats with john loori, who tho a bit schizpohrenic did provide sufficient gap for something to happen and then later toni packer, but you need to have a good reading span as well, like john of the cross and catherine of sienna, the cleary bro's translation of the blue cliff record

understanding is all over the place, like the lyricist of enya, roma ryan has some sort of understanding, it's quite apparent in the lyrics

objectively, what is life, how does it really work, blind breeders vainly trying to impose themselves on infinity?

how is infinity tangible?

when you start to work on these questions the world becomes alien to you and you to it : o )

ok, no-one is going to read the way i am able to, or get the solitude in the same quantities or perhaps be as consistently unsuccessful and survive  : o )

it's really that solitude and the simply vast amounts of time living that way that shows “being present” or  “things as they are” to be a fraud and voynich, whereas from a busy schedule and fragmented attention it might seem attractive

i would actually challenge you to present a living zen (or advaita or anything of that mystical religious nature) teacher that really knows what he is talking about, so if you purport to learn from the blind how can you see?

illusion 1            illusion 2

there’s

no

point

in

calling

a

schizophrenic

a

schizophrenic

is

 there ?

the world is not a better place for my having persuaded you of something

i

finally

get

it

i'm

right

you're

wrong

so

what

can

i

do

except

leave

singing

this

 song ?

audio

i

finally

get

it

you're

right

i'm

wrong

so

what

can

i

do

except

leave

singing

this

 song ?

audio

unwilling

crazy world 1

crazy world 2

crazy world 3

awakening

when he takes his eyes from the palm, derwent sees mortmain’s skull cap flutter down from an outcropping where the jew is laying and observing the palm.

all of the pilgrims fall asleep looking at the palm tree, and in the morning, when the caravan is about to leave, mortmain is missing

his glassy, dead eyes are fixed on the tree, and the monks bury the jew outside the monastery, in an unconsecrated grave, “where vulture unto vulture calls, / and only ill things find a friend”

the above quote  from

jesus christ herman melville is  good,  this is very very deep !

its rather  amazing  to be able to pull up on the web that palm tree that melville saw and even his dairy entry of seeing it !

... numerous terraces, balconies - solitary Date Palm - mid-way in precipice - Good bye.....

(from the introduction  of  page xxv )

below is an extract from “redburn. his first voyage” where melville is recounting a childhood experience

“ for i very well remembered staring at a man myself, who was pointed out to me by my aunt one sunday in church, as the person who had been in stony arabia, and passed through strange adventures there, all of which with my own eyes i had read in the book which he wrote, an arid-looking book in a pale yellow cover.

“see what big eyes he has”, whispered my aunt, “they got so big, because when he was almost dead with famishing in the desert, he all at once caught sight of a date tree, with the ripe fruit hanging on it.”

upon this, i stared at him till i thought his eyes were really of an uncommon size, and stuck out from his head like those of a lobster. i am sure my own eyes must have magnified as i stared. when church was out, i wanted my aunt to take me along and follow the traveler home. but she said the constables would take us up, if we did; and so i never saw this wonderful arabian traveler again. but he long haunted me; and several times i dreamt of him, and thought his great eyes were grown still larger and rounder; and once i had a vision of the date tree ”

john moriarty can certainly be long winded, but basically there's a deep sense in what he says that is missing in people like peter rocca, who unfortunately lacks a real understanding of what zen is about

i think the rather roving way john  talks  is part of what is being said

zen only makes sense if you exclude john moriarty and dylan thomas and if you don't exclude them, where do they fit, what they say doesn't accord with your world views  : o )

crucifixion

a counterbalancing  review

yes, i think the outcome could have been quite different with adequate dietary intervention like abit of fish oil and people who understood    autism

sadly the world is mostly the sort of people who flagged the very useful review above as  “ unhelpful ”

well of course it's during pregnancy that taking fish oil will have the most significant effect, but there's nothing said about digestive difficulties or diet or vaccines in that account !

i think she's autistic rather than aspergers because of the way she could read so early which means a super competent wiring of the brain's visual function

the problem with medicine is most doctors are in it for the money and they are not concerned with general good health and avoiding problems, just mixed result repairs of things that have gone badly wrong !

i think john moriarty has basically lived a celibate life, or at least substantial portions of it

ken jones is married

there's quite a difference in intensity which is why ken jones seems vapid and disconnected and john does not

i do think that zen is severely off the rails in it's trying to apply what is really a celibate approach to  “the suburbs”

of course you  (ed. harry)  will no doubt write this off as my  “ignorance”

interestingly i think your contact with john has affected you, some more real idea of what it might be about, or at least an idea of what it might look like : o )

your  husband  (ed. christopher foxton)  might  enjoy

it's really the most rip roaring story i have ever read

it's so different and so exciting that it shakes the boundaries a bit which i am sure he doesn't need : o )

my point is that “being in it” is an illusion, and people fall into that trap because there is a step to take  there are steps to take that don't sit well with this world and one can only agree with melville's observation of jerusalem

“ the whole thing is half melancholy, half farcical like all the rest of the world ”

cadences a bit like larry eigner actually

a  synthesized  awakening experience

“ pulling myself up from the floor, where i had been curled in fetal position, still sobbing, i poured what was left of me into a wing back chair ”

yeah  wing back is about the quality of it   : o )

maybe he had a stroke cause they end up closed like clams, of course in zen they are already closed like clams before kensho ! : o )

a  synthesized  awakening experience

“ pulling myself up from the floor, where i had been curled in fetal position, still sobbing, i poured what was left of me into a wing back chair ”

yeah wing back is about the quality of it  : o )

maybe he had a stroke cause they end up closed like clams, of course in zen they are already closed like clams before kensho ! : o )

i made abig mistake with moby dick, i was identifying with ahab and the crew, i should have been identifying with the  G R EA T  W H I T E   W H A L E    (ed. 1.00)

crowds always reject truth and sense, truth and sense are with the individual : o )

some sages get grasshoppers, i get canetoads !: o )

well having been through the spiritual mill a bit i can say that buddhist or hindu or new age or advaita, it's all the same, uncreative types clinging to clichés as a justification for doing anything except what it's supposed to be about  : o )

surely god and christ are not about belief, but the actual seeing of them in life and reality and what is of concern is wether a religious myth is true ?

false beliefs are not harmless and they distort and de-emphasise our lives in favour of something quite toxic !

this  website  pretty well covers the arguments against the historical reality of jesus, it's really quite aggressive in being anti, i wouldn't go that far, but basically it's well researched and not really arguable

pontius pilate existed as prefect of judea, there is a a stone with his name on it, by a tiberium built by him, which tells us what sort of man he was and not like the mythical account at all : o )

clichés, more clichés, schizophrenia, schizophrenics, the artistically untalented, the moronic, complete nutters, partial nutters......................yeah the usual spiritual scene : o )

there may be no self, or there may be a self

W

A

N

K

E

R

S

:

o

)

(

the above was a first post or sorta testing of the waters of a neo-advaita  group,  but true to advaita form it was removed as well as my registration, i was rather relieved really, no more involvement with plagiarizing idiots, but surprised in a way too, but the reality of their mistake in weighting  “immediate presence”  the usual new age/advaita/neoadviata/buddhist bedrock of the infinite eye is quite wrong and it requires censorship to sustain the illusion they claim for it   : o )

christ is a fraud as well, he never existed historically,  just some bad plagiarisms

writing soft nonsense only gives the wolves the scent of a kill i am afraid : o )

ed. this was a reply to a. w. davis's poem  “proclamation”

i think this board's  (ed. old hczb)  quite good for me because it gives an outlet for extreme aggression which i need and of course being enlightened and all it's like shooting wallaby : o )

i notice dogen's like this as well

bit more than catharsis, but some very proactive building of the brain and thought  : o )

so my question to you brad  (not that you will read this, being so avoidant of dealing with what you don't want to hear)

is with jayce's moderation the dynamic of your blog has changed, there is a fundamental thread of the most putrid insanity embedded in it now and even you can see how sick it is !

how long before you are going to realise this and make changes?

my

guess

is

never, but

it's

an

interesting

long

term

project

to

see

what

happens

:

o

)

(

to do a good send up of brad's blog (ed. hczb) you really need to get into the individual characteristics of the posters and even duel abit to get the deep flavour

but

you

know,

why

rub

up

against

cane

toads

if

you

don't

have

to

:

o

)

(

let me think, the typical zen and neo-advaita board/blog poster, clichéd, intellectually stagnant and really really boring

go the new hczb  : o )

living proof of the existance of lobotomies for imagination  : o )

“ i have a  drawer  in my bedroom

filled with treasure; i am the only one who knows what they know

when i die, they will lose their stories and forget their secrets ”

yeah, makes one thoughtful : o ) (