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Sleepless in Fulham: Rambling and gambling by David Young
Wednesday, 7 December 2005
Best comment I've read about Iraq for a long time.
Topic: Politics
Hat tip to Omar at Iraq the Model for this comment by Joseph Liebermann:

Note that this is a man who stood as Vice-President against Bush and Cheney in the 2000 election.

Key quote:

"I have just returned from my fourth trip to Iraq in the past 17 months and can report real progress there. More work needs to be done, of course, but the Iraqi people are in reach of a watershed transformation from the primitive, killing tyranny of Saddam to modern, self-governing, self-securing nationhood--unless the great American military that has given them and us this unexpected opportunity is prematurely withdrawn.

Progress is visible and practical. In the Kurdish North, there is continuing security and growing prosperity. The primarily Shiite South remains largely free of terrorism, receives much more electric power and other public services than it did under Saddam, and is experiencing greater economic activity. The Sunni triangle, geographically defined by Baghdad to the east, Tikrit to the north and Ramadi to the west, is where most of the terrorist enemy attacks occur. And yet here, too, there is progress.

There are many more cars on the streets, satellite television dishes on the roofs, and literally millions more cell phones in Iraqi hands than before. All of that says the Iraqi economy is growing. And Sunni candidates are actively campaigning for seats in the National Assembly. People are working their way toward a functioning society and economy in the midst of a very brutal, inhumane, sustained terrorist war against the civilian population and the Iraqi and American military there to protect it.

It is a war between 27 million and 10,000; 27 million Iraqis who want to live lives of freedom, opportunity and prosperity and roughly 10,000 terrorists who are either Saddam revanchists, Iraqi Islamic extremists or al Qaeda foreign fighters who know their wretched causes will be set back if Iraq becomes free and modern. The terrorists are intent on stopping this by instigating a civil war to produce the chaos that will allow Iraq to replace Afghanistan as the base for their fanatical war-making. We are fighting on the side of the 27 million because the outcome of this war is critically important to the security and freedom of America.

If the terrorists win, they will be emboldened to strike us directly again and to further undermine the growing stability and progress in the Middle East, which has long been a major American national and economic security priority.


Wednesday, 7 December 2005 - 3:00 PM GMT

Name: roGER
Home Page: http://rogers-rants.blogspot.com/

Senator Joseph Lieberman is an Orthodox Jew and ardent Zionist with absolute loyalty to the state of Israel.

According to the Jewish Virtual Library:

"Joe Lieberman has rallied bipartisan support for Israel during his 15 years in the United States Senate. He has consistently supported increased foreign aid to our ally, including Israel's recent request for $12 billion in new aid, and opposed efforts to cut this wise investment in security. More than that, Lieberman has led his colleagues in offering support for Israel during difficult times. In the spring of 2002 when Israel launched Operation Defensive Shield to root out Palestinian terrorists, President Bush insisted that Israel withdraw "without delay." Joe Lieberman, in contrast, led the Senate in passing a resolution expressing solidarity with Israel."

What a hero.

Since Saddam's Iraq was implaccably hostile towards Israel, Liberman took a strong lead in making a case for the war. Here's the Jewish Virtual Library once again:

"Joe Lieberman has been a leader within his party and the Senate in ridding the Middle East of the threat of Saddam Hussein. In 1991, he was the lead co-sponsor of the Gulf War resolution, and over the years, has been the Senate's leading voice for removing Saddam from power. In 1998, he co-sponsored the Iraqi Liberation Act, which made a change of regime in Baghdad official United States policy and provided assistance to forces within Iraq seeking to depose Saddam's brutal dictatorship. In 2002, Lieberman worked with the Democratic leadership to pass the bipartisan resolution giving the President the authority to use military force, if and when diplomacy failed, to disarm Saddam."

What a hero.

You can see both those extracts and much more at the Jewish Virtual Library:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/lieberman.html

Like all fanatics, Lieberman has a tenuous relationship with reality. His current hallucinations are best described by Time Magazine Baghdad bureau chief Michael Ware, who recently said:

"I and some other journalists had lunch with Senator Joe Lieberman the other day and we listened to him talking about Iraq. Either Senator Lieberman is so divorced from reality that he's completely lost the plot or he knows he's spinning a line. Because one of my colleagues turned to me in the middle of this lunch and said he's not talking about any country I've ever been to and yet he was talking about Iraq, the very country where we were sitting."

Source:

http://www.counterpunch.org/zeese11302005.html

*******

None the less, congratulations to David for finding a pro-Iraq war quote in December 2005.

- roGER

Thursday, 8 December 2005 - 3:26 AM GMT

Name: David Young

The mainstream US media was reporting 10,000 dead in Hurricane Katrina. The real figure turned out to be under one thousand. If they can be that wrong about their own country, what makes you think that Time is any better placed to talk about another?

DY

Thursday, 8 December 2005 - 12:34 PM GMT

Name: jamie

David, the US media was reporting what they were told by the New Orleans mayor, by government officials and by the police. The reports didn't state that 10,000 had died, but that the mayor feared that number had died.

There's a difference, but you knew that.




Thursday, 8 December 2005 - 12:36 PM GMT

Name: Ben

Question for "-roGER":-

Just curious, but why do you type your name that way? (Apologies if I've not typed it correctly)

Cheers

Ben

Thursday, 8 December 2005 - 2:38 PM GMT

Name: roGER
Home Page: http://rogers-rants.blogspot.com/

Hello Ben,

You asked: "...why do you type your name that way?"

I wish I had a good story to justify it, but I don't.

It's an informal signature I invented as a teenager, and would have probably stopped using (i.e grown out of). But then computers and e-mail etc. came along and it makes a good on-line signature.

Sorry the explanation is so mundane.

- roGER

Saturday, 10 December 2005 - 4:42 PM GMT

Name: lets come out of denial

I completely concur with roGer;
A fantastic repost to DY's nonsence.
However,I don't know when DY will wake up and smell the coffeee,so many great posters and insurmountable evidence still hasn't moved his position on Iraq or the middle east one inch...
even T Blair has acknowledged that Israel has to broker a decent and fair deal with the Palestinians-for there ever to be peace in the region,however his spinelessness seems to have aborted any serious progress here.

Saturday, 10 December 2005 - 8:30 PM GMT

Name: David Young

Quite true. I write about something I found on a website created and written by Iraqis (www.iraqthemodel.com) which supports something written by a US politician and the first response I get says:

"Senator Joseph Lieberman is an Orthodox Jew and ardent Zionist with absolute loyalty to the state of Israel."

I forgot the golden rule, that a man is innocent until proven orthodox jewish. Though I don't know what to make of Alan Dershowitz then, since he's in Roger's shit list for being a Zionist, yet he said in 'the case for Israel' that he was opposed to the Iraq war. Confusing huh?!

What a load of codswallop some of you supposedly informed people write.

Meanwhile, I am on holiday in New York. So blogging will be light.

DY

Sunday, 11 December 2005 - 4:14 AM GMT

Name: dream on and on and on

ok so you were worried by Saddam's missiles-TB said they might reach Italy!
however im sure with the incredibly effecient israeli security and secret services, any significant developements in saddams arsenal would have resulted in a pre-emptive strike by the israeli airforce.(they have done this before)We didnt need to invade for this reason.
Now you often argue that we need to establish a beacon of democracy and freedom etc in the middle east.
This is massive odds on to fail.
You only have to look at all the ex -British colonies around the world.
Every single one was left with democratic elections,free judiciaries,free press etc
Can you think of one that stayed liberal,democratic and free,except the anglo-saxon inhabited(basically white christian) countries?
In the first year2004-5 iraqi regime,the iraqi ministry of defence has spent #740 million on a few shity pakistani and polish weopans.The rest of the money dissapeared abroad.Britain is trying to cover up this scandel,because it implicates their favoured candidate-iyad allami.
Another example of corruption that infests 'new' democracies,and lets not forget tribalism and religous tensions that are certain to errupt here,like in so many other underdeveloped states.

Monday, 12 December 2005 - 11:49 AM GMT

Name: roGER
Home Page: http://rogers-rants.blogspot.com/

The fact Joe Lieberman is an Orthodox Jew and ardent Zionist explains how a democratically elected American politician could spend so much of his electorate's political and financial capital for the benefit of a foreign state.

As for the Orthodox Jew and ardent Zionist (what a coincidence) Alan Dershowitz, far from being on any shit list of mine, he's more likely to be found in the clown's corner.

Here's a passage from his autobiography "Chutzpah" that strangley didn't make it into his polemic "The Case for Israel"

“Almost all my clients have been guilty.”

Indeed so.

And here's an account of Dershowitz's letter to the Governor of California, asking that Norman Finklestien's "Beyond Chutzpah" (which exposes "The Case for Israel" as a fraud filled with lies) not be published.

In a phone interview Dershowitz denied writing to the Governor, declaring, "My letter to the Governor doesn't exist."

But when pressed on the issue, he said, "It was not a letter. It was a polite note."

****

Heh heh heh! "Not a letter, it was a polite note" You just couldn't make this sort of stuff up this could you?!?

WHAT A CLOWN!

For more clownish antics from Dershowitz as he flounders around trying to protect his soiled reputation see Norman Finklestien's website:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

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