Me and the Hendon Mob.
Topic: Poker
Over at Andy Ward's Diary, I spotted a sideways comment about me from Big Dave D, regarding the fact that I post less about poker on this site since I started writing for Gutshot. David wrote this message to Andy:
You're fetish with Samuels is a bit of a leak...as is your continued posting on THM. I'm sure now that you are fully "pimp my ride" with a panoply of poker sites, all posts will strictly be Pay per View. And maybe, like DY, u can stop on that funny poker stuff.Andy said he was going to stop writing on the Hendon Mob forum, but hasn't stuck to it. I said the same, but have stuck to it. It's been 14 weeks now. Amazingly I'm still second in the all time posting list after over three months of silence. Shortly before I stopped posting on there, there was a discussion on another blog somewhere in which either Dave or 'chaos' suggested that I was partly to blame for the deterioration in the quality of the forum, because of my many posts about politics. In my defence, while agreeing that I did write a lot about politics, I should stress that many of the actual threads in which I did so were actually started by other people. These threads were also very popular with many people and came at a time when the US, and indeed the world, stood at a crossroads, because of the November election.
So on Andy's site I wrote this:
"A few months ago, there was some talk on Big Dave D's blog to the effect that I was partly responsible for ruining the Hendon Mob forum by getting involved in lots of discussions about politics.
Shortly afterwards I grew disillusioned with the forum and stopped posting on it on the 17th of November. Since then, does anyone think it's gotten better? I don't. I now find it amazingly boring and look at it about one fifth as much as I used to.
The problem wasn't the offtopic discussion, I don't believe, as much as the endless abuse dished out from total nobodies at anyone who presented a view. Combined with adoration of people who never contributed anything to the forum (Devilfish, Surinder and half of the Hendon Mob themselves), I began to wonder why I bothered. The more you write, the more people think they have the right to insult you. The move was obvious. Do nothing unless someone pays you.
Why Pete Birks continues to give away free content I don't know. He's one of the only worthwhile posters there left. Save it for Stan James, Pete! The fact is that the forum exists to promote the site and the site exists to renew the Mob's amazing deal with Prima. You are basically working for free to get Ross and Ram into comps. And they don't even send you a thankyou note!
Such is the power of fame."It only took a few hours for someone, under an alias, to write a post titled 'David Young calls the mob cun*s'. I don't recall using those words or any remotely similar, but the poster did at least provide a link to what I did say, so people can see for themselves that I didn't. He also added the short message 'Burn him'. It is very possible that this person has written this ironically, especially after Andy's excellent post on groupthink, which pointed out this exact phenomenon in poker. The next poster to the thread didn't make clear whether he actually bothered to read my original words and said:
"Everybody is entitled to their own views and opinions but I have to say that I think the HM have done more for British poker than most. Along with Devilfish and Dave Colclough (+ a few), these are the recognised faces of our UK game and they promote it in a very positive light. I think the biggest issue is they are at the top of thier "field" and as such, people seem to take fun in trying to run them down.
My guess is they are big enough to take it. I was lucky enough to spend a fair amount of time with them at the Bellagio in December and each and everyone of them were great. Happy to talk, help and be all round good guys. My hat is off to them.
They were and still are, where most of us aspire to be."Take fun in trying to run them down? How does he draw that conclusion? I'm also interested to know how Devilfish, Colclough and the Mob have "done more for British poker than most". Genuinely baffled in some ways. The Mob's greatest contribution by far, in my opinion, is the forum. It was fantastic a few years ago, but now seems populated with people who want to moan about online poker being rigged when their aces get cracked and er... er ... well I'm not sure, as much of it is so unmemorable now.
Is it so nasty to point out that the site was (I guess) built from the outset with the intention of getting a sponsorship deal? It seems fairly obvious to me. Now that the deal exists, it continues in order to get that deal renewed. Surely that's a statement of the obvious?
Meanwhile, what is Devilfish's contribution to British poker? I know that he's made British players seem more of a threat to the Americans and I'm not even sure that I'm grateful for that. But has he built a bricks and mortar cardroom, like Barry and Derek did with Gutshot? Has he negotiated a rake rebate for online players, like some others I could name? No! He hasn't even told Ultimatebet to get a sterling bank account, like I told Phil Hellmuth it should do. Nor, when I last looked, did UB seem to have taken the British market into account in scheduling its tournaments, with all the decent sized ones starting at 2am, to suit the Americans. Things may have changed, but I wouldn't know, as I gave up waiting for UB to be more British-friendly about a year ago and haven't looked at it since. It's not even downloaded on my new computer.
One person who has made a difference to poker in Britain and much of the rest of Europe, is the much maligned Nic Szerameta. Few realise that he's the one who came up with the format for Late Night Poker, which is what lead to the massive growth in the game. Nor that he's one of the founders of the World Heads Up championship, a real innovation that the Americans never thought of. And he was also involved in getting Europe's best structured tournament going - the E-WSOP, which for years ran with a two hour round structure!
But he gets abuse while Devilfish and Colclough get praise. Why? Well it doesn't help that Nic spends so little time in London or the South East meaning that many people never get to know him. But the real thing that gets you praised is winning a high profile tournament. When Surinder Sunar won the WPT event in Paris last year, I was stunned by the number of people who wrote in to praise him on the Hendon Mob forum, as though Surinder ever looked at it. Of course he didn't. He never even replied. My guess is that he's never looked at the site and never even found out that people were praising him on it.
Don't get me wrong. I like the Hendon Mob. I've been to two of them's houses. I like Surinder, Devilfish and Colcough. I've spoken on friendly terms with all of them. But I'm not going to credit them with doing much for the British game. That credit should go to others, many of whom you've never heard of.
In the meantime, if you think I'm being so hard on Ross and Ram, can you find anything that they have written on the forum in the last three months (Diary pieces don't count). And have any of them thanked Pete Birks for his many fantastic contributions, which stand head and shoulders above the general dross?
_ DY
at 4:05 AM GMT
Updated: Saturday, 26 February 2005 4:36 AM GMT