Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:38:32 -0700
From: auvenj@mailcity.com ("Jason Auvenshine")
Subject: Re: [lpaz-govcom] Re: disaffiliating Pima
To: lpaz-govcom@yahoogroups.com, randerson22@home.com ("Robert Anderson"), ernesthancock@home.com ("Ernest Hancock")
Reply-To: lpaz-govcom@yahoogroups.com
Ernie,
My whole point is that the current leadership of
PCLP would probably be happy to be "rid"
of ALP as you suggest. I don't
want to see that happen because it will drive more
people into Peter's camp, particularly if he
loses the appeal. My desire to prevent a disaffiliation
has nothing to do with my own need for a "validation" of Pima.
Are there people in Pima who won't follow
Peter even if ALP disaffiliates Pima? Sure. I
am one of them and there are a few others
. You'd probably call us the remnant.
However, it seems there is such focus by some
on "preaching to the remnant" that you don
't realize what you're really focusing on
is the remnant of the remnant of the remnant...
The people who won't follow Peter are only
those active Libertarians who have abandoned the duopoly to become
Libertarians (a "remnant" of Americans...about
1% at best), decided freedom is important enough
to do something about it (a "remnant"
of Libertarians, maybe 1% again), and abandoned
the psychological need for organization/leadership enough to go
it alone if need be (a "remnant"
of active Libertarians...maybe 10% at best?).
You're talking about an extremely tiny number of
people. Forgive me if I feel the need to
at least TRY get/keep more people involved than that.
ALP's affiliation with Pima is without a doubt
a crutch for some to feel they can lean on
if Peter loses the case and they feel the county
party is doomed without a state party. So what
. It's better than such people supporting the
continued suits that have plagued ALP for years, which
is what they will do in the absence of the crutch.
FYI I have now made a request as a PCLP
member to the PCLP chair to send a copy of
the PCLP bylaws to Tim McDermott, and offered to
pay for the printing/mailing cost. There is
no excuse if he doesn't.
--Jason Auvenshine
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:03:45
Ernest Hancock wrote:
>I don't think anyone is in a hurry to take a moments effort to worry about
>what PCLP does or thinks. We just need to keep the bylaws in play or Peter
>will use our inaction against us,... duh.
>
>The claim that because Pima is active has no merit if the action is in
>violation of libertarian principles.
>
>The rift between Tucson and Maricopa is only in the heads of those that wish
>there to be. I see no wall or even a picket fence. All I see is another
>opportunity to demontrate our resolve and define our position. And the more
>ALPink is "active" the easier it is for us to make clear the difference.
>You'll see how powerful this will be in the decades to come.
>
>So stop worrying about isolation and division, it's only in your mind and in
>Peter's speeches and communications with a national party that we have no
>interest in anyway. _Asking_ (requiring, demanding,...whatever) that the
>PCLP be in compliance with our bylaws is,... expected. Nothing personal or
>threatening. Hell, I would think that they would love to be rid of having to
>be associated with the ALP anyway.
>
>Those that wish to work with any statewide effort will do so. If I feel good
>about a project that originated in Pima then I will support it and help. The
>problem is that little is done with any association with the Schmorg that I
>can feel good about it.
>
>I doubt that the Pima county Recorder will stop giving the database to the
>PCLP even after we no longer have them as a listed affiliate. If another
>group were to rise up I would encourage that they do so not as a political
>group but as another "Alliance" as Scottsdale and Glendale are doing.
>
>All of this practicing of bad libertarianism will only cause a new effort to
>come from elsewhere to accomplish the same things. So don't get too tied to
>this "party" thing. People like Peter and John Z. will always gravitate to
>positions that they believe will give them power over others in the name of
>service to the masses ("we're from the government and we are here to help"
>kind'a thing). What he, you, national and many others do not understand is
>that freedom never comes from any type of a collectivist structure,... only
>another type of collectivism.
>
>So worry about Pima's validation from the ALP and the State if you must. But
>I assure you that in the long run it matters not.
>
>Ernie
>
>
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