Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:47:49 -0000 From: auvenj@mailcity.com Subject: [lpaz-discuss] Re: The fate of the Maricopa Co. LP? To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com
FWIW...a few comments below
--- In lpaz-discuss@y..., pgammill@h... wrote: > Now that ALP has been absorbed by ALP, Inc. via court order
(effective > Sept. 16 - retroactive), we have to decide what to do with the
> Maricopa Co. LP. While Inc. had its own MCLP, it is now down to
two > people, one of whom would like to step in and take over. MCLP does
> not, however, become a vassal of Inc. automatically. We need to
> consider its value.
Under any circumstance, MCLP will no more be a "Vassal of Inc." than it was a "Vassal of ALP". MCLP will have its own control structure by those who choose to participate from Maricopa County. Whether or not it does what "Inc. Wants" will be up to those who choose to participate.
> 1) Do we want to associate with the ALP. Inc.?
As a point of information, ALP, Inc.'s bylaws automatically define the state-recognized county parties as their affiliates. There is no matter of affiliation or disaffiliation, association or rejection. You are the party...you are the county affiliate. More below.
> Speaking for myself, I won't without a good reason or a brain
tumor. > I won't be associated with folks whose primary mission in life is
to > raise money by any means necessary, as well as to control internal
> party communications in minutia.
Both problems you cite are fixable. The first, by an election of officers wherein Tucson is not the only contingent voting (more below). The second is fixable by means of this very list or one much like it. Most of you know that I publicized the Pima County listserve and a good portion of the members in Pima County have joined it. There is no reason there can't be a "state list" for ALP, Inc....even this list. If someone in leadership doesn't like it or doesn't like what's said...so what? What can they do? These lists are owned by INDIVIDUALS not ORGANIZATIONS which is why they're so useful, and maddening to those who would control information flow.
> 2) Do we want to maintain control of the MCLP?
>
> Considerations:
>
> a) Is the MCLP of value? Come up with your own list.
> What value?
> 1) automatic ballot status 5 weeks left to go
before > the Oct.1, deadline. Based upon the July, 2001 (the latest
available) > registrations, MCLP needs about 1900 further registrations
(assuming > approx. 20% bad registration rate). I assume, based upon Tim's
> comments that we have somewhere in the neighborhood of 1100 that we
> have not turned in yet. For statewide ballot status, about 1450
> registrations are needed. Therefor, if we qualify, so will ALP,
> without having to do squat. However, we are legally and honor
bound > to turn in our registrations. The ones we are currently holding
would > place Inc. within 300 from their goal. We cnnot deny ALP a place
> statewide on the ballot. So let us focus on our race, for which we
> have already spent over $2,000. Do we finish the job, or walk away
> and deny ballot status to the MCLP? If we finish the job, we must
> renew our promised commitment to pay up our pledges now, not next
> week.
Not only does Maricopa county get ballot status by finishing the drive, they also get to control the majority of votes at the next ALP, Inc. election. Remember the "1 State Committeeman for every 3 County PCMs" rule. Maricopa County has 2-3 times the number of precincts as Pima County, if I remember correctly. That's why I say the "fundraising by any means" problem is fixable. Just elect leaders that won't do that. It's also why I say that MCLP will not be controlled by ALP, Inc. It's the other way around. No one in ALP, Inc. can vote in MCLP elections by virtue of their status in ALP, Inc. MCLP will control the majority of state committee slots in ALP, Inc. So in a real sense, MCLP will control ALP, Inc.
> 2) MCLP is our organization do we abandon it for
> Inc. to take over? Many of you have worked hard to keep this party
> going. Are you walking away? Are you giving this gift to Peter
for > all his hard work?
As I said above, MCLP won't be "Peter's" whether you stay OR go. MCLP will be controlled by the people who live in Maricopa County and choose to participate by becoming PCMs. THEY (not Peter) will determine what MCLP does.
> 3) MCLP allows us a organization in which we can
> focus our activities, give the Press and Government a view of our
> legitimacy and someone to contact.
>
> b) Is the MCLP a liability to us?
Yes. You will now have to run as PCMs to maintain control of it. Only you can decide if the benefits are worth it.
> 3) What can we do?
> a) Abandon ALP to ALP, Inc. Duh! A no brainer. It was
> stolen from us... so be it, for now.
> b) Abandon the MCLP (disband) to Inc.
> c) Strengthen the MCLP
> 1) Make overtures and join the ALP, Inc. Yeah,
that > is going to happen.
As I said above, you are already "affiliated" if you have county ballot status. No "overtures" are necessary. Similarly, you are a member of ALP, Inc. if you are registered Libertarian.
> 2) Avoid affiliating/associating with ALP, Inc., in
a > manner that Pima Co. LP did to us (ALP).
And, like Pima County and ALP, don't be surprised if you have a few "peacemakers" who insist upon communicating with ALP, Inc. keeping them informed of what's going on, and speaking up at MCLP meetings about what's going on in Inc. This job will be made considerably easier by the fact that ALP, Inc. CAN'T disaffiliate a county party (unlike what ALP threatened to do to Pima on a fairly regular basis). Unless you want to get into censorship in MCLP, don't count on "having nothing to do" with Inc...though as I mentioned above that's a totally different matter from CONTROL of MCLP, which Inc. will under no circumstances have.
> 3) To keep the MCLP we must become precinct
> committeemen.
Hence the liability. I make no bones about the fact that I don't like the PCM system. I have never come to its defense. But is it any bigger deal than getting a drivers license or a hunting license? No it is not. It is up to you if you think it's worth the trouble or compromise if you see it as a compromise (I do not). Some will undoubtedly decide it isn't worth it to become a PCM. Others will decide it is worth it. If the ratio is approximately equivalent to what it is for Libertarians who drive getting drivers licenses and Libertarians who hunt getting hunting licenses, MCLP should have no problem fielding enough PCMs to both run its own operations and effectively control ALP, Inc.
> 4) Western Libertarian Alliance not an organization, but a focus
> a) MCLP announcing affiliation with WLA would add legitimacy
> to WLA, trouble both the Inc. and NLP, who wouldn't want to see a
> precedent established that others might follow.
> b) Be fun, because we are joining a group which has no
> leaders, bylaws, few rules.
Sounds like a good idea to me...except that it isn't apt to "trouble both the Inc. and NLP" because as long as you are affiliated with Inc. by virtue of being a county party with ballot status, I doubt they'll care who ELSE you choose to be affiliated with. And if you all just abandon MCLP and start another "group" that doesn't have ballot status (and therefore ISN'T affiliate with Inc.) then you're essentially another party that has to start all over from scratch. Again Inc. and National aren't apt to lose any sleep over it. So as a way to "stick it to 'em" it won't work...but as a way to declare MCLP's principles in a way that can't be watered down, WLA affiliation sounds like an outstanding idea.
--Jason Auvenshine
>
> Food for thought and comment,
>
> Powell
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Learn Trading Tips the Professional Traders Use! Free Newsletter from Optionetics.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/q1ufhB/ZR9CAA/ySSFAA/JdSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Community email addresses: Post message: lpaz-discuss@onelist.com Subscribe: lpaz-discuss-subscribe@onelist.com Unsubscribe: lpaz-discuss-unsubscribe@onelist.com List owner: lpaz-discuss-owner@onelist.com Web site: www.ArizonaLibertarian.org
Shortcut URL to this page: http://www.onelist.com/community/lpaz-discuss
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/