Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 10:32:07 -0000 From: auvenj@mailcity.com Subject: [lpaz-discuss] Re: Court of Appeals Memorandum To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com
There are a number of reaons to consider re-registering: - Staying registered LBT makes you a member of ALP, Inc. Hard to argue with this one, it's true according to bylaws and the court ruling. - Re-registering may deny Peter ballot status. Unlikely, but not impossible. ALP, Inc. has raised significant amounts of money from the last fundraising letter. Even if Peter has to pay $5 a registration it is very likely he will have enough to obtain ballot status and then some for both Maricopa County and the state if he wants to. There are some who have suggested Peter might wish to fail in this endeavor, at least in the case of Maricopa County, to preserve his position as ALP, Inc. chair. I have learned from hard experience not to speculate on Peter's "true motives", only on the facts at hand, so I will not comment one way or another on this. - Staying registered LBT implies sanction for what ALP, Inc. did. To me this seems like very flawed logic. Applying this principle would mean that retaining US citizenship when one could move abroad implies sanction for US Government meddling. - Registering for a major party will allow you to "mess with" that party or try to move them in a libertarian direction. Unlikely, but not impossible. As I've mentioned before the other partiesare quite hard targets for takeover or internal manipulation. I can say without reservation that for the individuals involed in "the former ALP" the easiest party in the state to influence or take over will be ALP, Inc. (not that it will even be a total cakewalk). - Registering independant lets you vote in whatever party's primary you want. Hard to argue with that one on pragmatics, but there is the fact that many of you opposed that very action on principle (rights of association) at least as much as you opposed the Precinct Committeeman system.
As always, individuals will make their own choices and we will see the outcomes. I will not presume to tell anyone what they 'should' do at this point, though I doubt anyone will be surpised to hear that my own intention at present is to remain active and registered LBT while continuing to support the principles of the WLA. I await the "big dates" we've all been told to expect: September 12 and September 18.
However, I will reiterate one "should" statement I made previously. This list SHOULD remain as is, intact, and independant of any formal organization regardless of what individuals decide to do with their registration. Paul - as list owner - please do not dismantle the list should you decide to change registration and the former ALP cease to exist. If need be because you are unwilling to continue as owner, I will take ownership of the list, and if so I pledge there will be no change in list policy nor any control of information flow by Peter.
--Jason Auvenshine
--- In lpaz-discuss@y..., Paul Schauble <pls@t...> wrote: > It doesn't matter at all on election day what you are registered as,
> as long as you are registered.
>
> It might matter on primary day. The solution here is to register as
> independent. Under Arizona law, an independent can pick any primary
> to vote in. IMHO, unless you're trying to build a party the only
> rational choice of registration is independent.
>
> ++PLS
>
>
> Steve Trinward wrote:
> >
> > Good advice all around, Mr. G.! it really doesn't matter what you
are > > registered as, except on erection day ...
> >
> > what matters is what you, as a good small-l libertarian, can do
to bring > > down the tyrants and restore some liberty to the picture. Any and
all of > > the suggested "issue politics" arenas is wide open and in need of
> > support. Go for it!
> >
> > - Steve
> >
> > pgammill@h... wrote:
> >
> > > Well if you were a registered Republican or Democrat, would you
even > > > know who was the State or County chairman of your party? Most
people > > > would not. I guess it depends upon whether it matters to you
or not. > > >
> > > Facts: 1) Peter Schmerl WAS the State Chairman of the ALP(,
Inc.) > > > since the convention of 1999, so sayeth the court. I use was,
because > > >
> > > a strong case can now be made that there is no legal statutory
> > > chairman (or secretary or treasurer, as required by law), of the
> > > current party. However, Mr. Schmerl claims to be the current
chairman > > >
> > > of the ALP, Inc., and I suspect the SOS office will recognise
him as > > > such. However, it is possible the SOS will in fact refuse to
> > > recognise his validity on the basis of the last Convention not
being > > > held within the City of Phoenix as required by statute. [There
is > > > also a strong PCM vote irregularities claim to be made at their
last > > > convention.]
> > >
> > > 2) Kat Gallant WAS the Maricopa County chairman since the
convention > > > of 1999, so sayeth the court. She did not run in this last
> > > convention. Since there are no currently valid PCM's in
Maricopa > > > County (all the PCM's terms in Maricopa have long since
expired, and > > > the Maricopa County Recorder has refused to accept new
applicants), > > > and for reasons described above, anyone calling themselves the
> > > Chairman of the Maricopa CO. LP stands on a dubious claim.
> > >
> > > 3) This situation will be locked in place at some point after
Sept. > > > 17th, when the ruling becomes finalize.
> > >
> > > 4) The ALP and the ALP, Inc. were merged in the 1999
convention, so > > > sayeth the court.
> > >
> > > 5) The registered libertarians of this state belong to the
ALP, Inc. > > >
> > > I know several people who are going to re-register as something
else. > > > Some are thinking of holding a press conference to call
attention to > > > the situation the Court of Appeals has wrought. Whether the
press > > > would be interested... anyway, if it occurs I suspect it will
occur on > > >
> > > Set. 17th.
> > >
> > > Right now the ballot status for both Maricopa Co. LP and the
ALP is > > > too close to call, with the final talley being Oct. 1, 2001 (the
> > > cut-off date). If you withdraw before this date, you may be
able to > > > deny the ALP and MCLP ballot status, if you think this is a
good idea. > > >
> > > I am still swinging on this, because no one has really made a
great > > > case to me for or against this being a bad or good thing for
> > > libertarians who wish to run as libertarians.
> > >
> > > At any rate, the choice is up to you. Many will register
Republican > > > or Democrat, depending upon which district they land in when the
> > > Redistricting Commission finalizes things. They will then try
to > > > disrupt the major parties during the primaries, causing
political > > > capital expenditures by the big boys who will be most unhappy.
> > >
> > > Others will wait and see (and hope) that Peter implodes. Then
they > > > pick up the pieces. Maybe that will happen. If it does, I
sure don't > > >
> > > want to be associated with the ALP, Inc., so that they can
place some > > > blame on me. I'd want Peter to have all the glory, and no
avenue for > > > excuses. If this was the avenue I was going to take, then I
would get > > >
> > > out of the Libertarian Party. [I honestly don't know whether I
will > > > drop my registration or not. I will not have anything to do
with the > > > ALP, Inc., and would be leary of the MCLP, Inc.]
> > >
> > > If you stick with the Party, and want to be an activist, then
you will > > >
> > > have to run for PCM in your district. Jason can help advise
you on > > > how to set that up, without having to go through Peter. If
enough > > > anti-Peter people successfully do this, then Peter can be given
the > > > boot using his own preferred system against him.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, I guarantee, just because the ALP folks are
> > > abandoning the ALP to the Inc. doesn't mean they are abandoning
> > > activism. It just means they won't be doing it under the wing
of the > > > ALP/NLP. There are a lot of causes out there: tax reform, drug
> > > re-legalization, immigration, gun ownership, etc. Pick an area
you > > > care about and hang out with similar minded folk.
> > >
> > > --- In lpaz-discuss@y..., "Gene Woltz" <genewoltz@q...> wrote:
> > > > Does this mean that I have to un-register as a LBT if I don't
want > > > to be associated with Peter & Co.?
> > >
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
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> >
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> >
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Would you now like to... t - Type out (Re-read) this message r - Reply to this message d - Delete this message u - Undelete this message n - Read the next unread message RETURN - Go back to the list of headersEnter Command: T Message #1 (214 is last): Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:28:29 EDT From: Carolinnus@aol.com Subject: [lpaz-discuss] Libertyforall Update To: Libertyforall@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Libertyforall.net has been updated. Enjoy! As an aside, please remember LFA accepts submissions from any and all state and student activists, and we encourage you to share your success stories with the rest of the country. Send submissions to LFAeditor@aol.com. -- Lee
"The income tax created more criminals than any other single act of government."
- Sen. Barry M. Goldwater, 1989
Is it any less so today? Is our station in life any less strained? Do we not create a whole new class of criminals with each new piece of legislation passed by CONgress? Perpetual taxation of individual income, throughout history, has consistently produced one thing -- Revolution.
J. Michael Bragg, Webmaster for Libertyforall.net, examines legislation pending in CONgress with his critical review of the Patient's Bill of Rights on the front page of the newly-updated <A HREF="http://www.libertyforall.net/frame.html">Liberty For All</A> http://www.libertyforall.net/frame.html
Also brand new this update, Libertyforall.net Associate Editor Della Croft debuts our newest column "Liberated Musings." Featured are articles about libertarians facing human, rather than political, situations in an attempt to examine libertarianism as a lifestyle; as well as, a solid political philosophy.
Only interested in Liberty,
R. Lee Wrights Editor, Liertyforall.net http://www.libertyforall.net Vice-Chairman, Libertarian Party of North Carolina http://www.lpnc.org
"I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend." - Thomas Jefferson
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