Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:50:22 -0000 From: auvenj@mailcity.com Subject: [lpaz-discuss] Is being left alone enough? (was: Re: Bob Schulz Hunger Strike To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com
John,
> And after all that is what liberty is all about is being "left
> alone" by those who seem to almost get a perverse pleasure in
> "bothering others" (We call them bureaucrats) Once "left alone"
> by that machine, the capacity will be within you to show othrs
> how to reach the point of simply being left alone at their own
> liberty.
Being left alone is so clearly a requirement for one to live free that it is tempting to focus on it to the point of missing the other "blessings of liberty" that can come ONLY by living in a free society. Yes, I want to live free, but I am also deeply concerned with creating a free society. This isn't altruism...I am convinced the only way I can get what I want out of life is for the government to allow all my fellow countymen to live free also.
Some manage to live free by living in remote locations or otherwise flying below the radar of the nanny state. I in no way disparage this lifestyle; in some ways it is tempting for me to try as well. Perhaps I could indeed be successful in being "left alone" and living free. But that doesn't mean I will live in a free society.
I want to live in a free society because in addition to just being left alone I want to be able to purchase the products and services that only free minds will produce. I can't have a cure for cancer or alzheimer's just by being left alone. I can't have a skycar or a house cleaning robot just because the government leaves me and a few of my friends alone. I want to purchase the kind of educational materials for my children that will be available only when the government's near-monopoly on education is eliminated and a true free- market educational system develops. I want to take my family for a vacation on Mars. I want to go mountain climbing on my 200th birthday.
I have no way of knowing for sure which of the above I will be able to achieve. I do know this: I won't have any of them just by being left alone, and the less free my fellow men are the less likely it is I'll be able to have any of them. The things I want are things that can ONLY be produced by an advanced and free economy. Some folks may find themselves perfectly happy making their own soap in a Yurt out in the middle of nowhere because they're being "left alone." That's great...but it's not the life I want to lead. Being left alone is desirable, but it is not enough.
One other thing I just can't resist mentioning, since you are the one who brought religion into this. I don't claim to have all the answers about how to achieve the goal of a free society. However, my opinion is that skipping meals whilst mumbling plaintive "reminders" to the God of Forgetful Omniscience is apt to produce but a single result: weight loss. But maybe I'm wrong...and either way a little weight loss probably wouldn't hurt anyone. :-) So knock yourself out, and if there are any quantifiable results other than weight loss I'd consider myself privileged to hear about it.
--Jason Auvenshine
--- In lpaz-discuss@y..., "John Wilde" <rsrchsoc@i...> wrote: > Hello,
>
> As I have sat out here lurking about Legality and other
> groups, I have watched this discussion develop concerning the
> intentions Bob Shulz, the Director of We the People Foundation,
> to begin a "hunger strike" until government answers the
> challenges about the income tax and its enforcement.
>
> Bob while I know you are well meaning, your "hunger strike"
> is directed in the wrong direction. Quite frankly it comes down
> to the simplicity of this one question, what do I care what
> government thinks? They either cease their agression against me
> and my friends, when we take our redress, or they face a
> counteraction both legally and politically. You are in essence
> waiting for government to tell you something so that you know
> what to do next. That is like the Master of the House letting
> the cook tell the Master what should be prepared for dinner.
> Instead you should be telling the Servant (government) what it is
> doing wrong, and how you expect it to be fixed. If government
> agents refuse, then you have redress for their wrongs.
>
> I cannot personally support a hunger strike that could lead
> to anyone's death or that seeks the remedy Bob is seeking from
> government. I am sure there re others who are more learned
> Biblical scholars who could provide those passages that would
> condemn the type of hunger strike you are contemplating.
>
> On the other hand, I can support a season of fasting and
> prayer in agreement and would more than willingly join with
> others, with the understanding that the fast and prayer is
> directed towards a "firm reliance upon the protection of Divine
> Providence" to mutually pledge individually and to each other
> "our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." (I am not going
> to reinvent the wheel that was made 225 years ago.)
>
> As I and some friends were recently reminded our prayer would
> be in agreement with the prayer of the government officials who
> are now setting out against the people. Think about the oath
> that they take. Commissioner Rossotti, President Bush and
> Treasury Secretary O'neil took their oath of office with a prayer
> at the end "So help me God." That is not an idle prayer. So our
> prayer must be in agreement wth theirs to bind them to their own
> prayer for "God's help." As we were also remined of, we fast at
> the same time to help us purge the will of the flesh, that while
> fighting (and hopefully ignoring our hunger) we continue in
> prayer and feed our spirit and not our bellies.
>
> Our prayer in agreement will also be our opportunity as a
> people joined together as we were 225 years ago, to remind God of
> his covenant and take us from the bondage of our enemies. I
> suggest, if many of you haven't before, go read Judges. Time and
> again the Israelites were taken into captivity for their
> rejection of God and his. Time and again after the generation
> that had rejected God had passed, the younger generations of
> Israelites repented and once again obeyed God's law. Yet on
> several occasions they remained in captivity. It was only after
> fasting and a prayer of reminder to God about his Covenant with
> the Israelites that the God honored the Covenant and the
> Israelites were released from thir captivity.
>
> Are we as a people obedient to God to once again remind him
> through prayer of the Everlasting Covenant that it will cause our
> enemies in government to free us from our bondage and simply
> "leave us alone" to go about our every day lives doing our
> business as long as we continue our obedience to God and do not
> interfere in the rights of others to do likewise? Until we try
> we won't know.
>
> There may be no answer at all, which means we are not ready
> to enjoy the benefits of the Covenant. The answer may be the
> realease of only those who participate and give reminder of the
> Covenant or it may be a very large number. You may not even
> recognize it at first and it may not happen right away. I don't
> expect some great declaration from government, of the type that
> Bob Shulz appears to be expecting with the hunger strike. I
> expect for the most part that it will be a quiet discovery that
> you are simply being left alone by the machine of government.
> And after all that is what liberty is all about is being "left
> alone" by those who seem to almost get a perverse pleasure in
> "bothering others" (We call them bureaucrats) Once "left alone"
> by that machine, the capacity will be within you to show others
> how to reach the point of simply being left alone at their own
> liberty.
>
> Again what do I care what government thinks or does, as long
> as I am being left alone to live my life, in obedience to God,
> and to teach others what it means to be at liberty? I care not a
> wit.
>
> So, would I join in a season of prayer and fasting asking
> that God honor his Covenant and free those seeking to be at
> liberty. Certainly. I will join in a fast and a prayer
> appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of
> our intentions. If we are righteous, then just as occurred with
> the Israelites in the past, and again with the Founding Fathers
> 225 years ago, God will abide by his Covenant and we will be at
> our liberty once again.
>
> It may not happen overnight. The Unanimous Declaration of
> the thirteen united States of America was more than a declaration
> of the wrongs that the King was committing against the colonies,
> it was a prayer and that prayer reminder to God of the Covenant,
> just as the Israelites had done. It took 5 more years after the
> Unanimous Declaration before victory could be declared.
>
> If July 1st is to be the day in which the season of fasting
> and prayer is to begin and continue until we understad what our
> future work is, then so-be-it. If not, then at another time when
> we can join in a prayer of agreement, whether it be few or many.
>
> I await word from all willing to participate, including Bob
> Schulz.
>
> g'day
> John Wilde
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