Q&A Asia Interview With Dr. Wan Azizah Ismail
Monday, April 19, 1999
Speakers:
Riz Khan - Anchor, CNN International (Khan)
Dr. Wan Azizah Wan Ismail (Azizah)
KHAN: What's the latest news you have for your husband Anwar Ibrahim and what are the prospects for the appeal against this case, Dr. Wan Azizah?
AZIZAH: We haven't had any news yet on the appeal, all we have to do now is go in to the Appeal Court.
Khan: Obviously there have been some scenes on the streets of people coming out. Who is leading and encouraging the street protests?
AZIZAH: It's not the National Justice Party, but these are people who have wanted to voice their protests against the sentence and the verdict. Even though they knew it was going to happen. You have seen a lot of injustice... and therefore they want to voice their protest.
Khan: But, Dr. Wan Azizah, you have been reported as saying that those chanting out on the street, some of them are police or government people pretending to be the members of your party, pretending to he Anwar's supporters. What evidence do you have that they are the ones down there, and are making trouble?
AZIZAH: Well, I have reports saying that the photographer, who took those photographs of these police officers... attacking and firing tear gas and breaking the court windows, but then the other police officers attacked him and took away the film. So I cannot actually show direct evidence, but I have reports telling me all that happened behind the scenes.
Khan: We have a call from London...
(voice of a viewer calling in from London): Mahathir Mohamad might call for the next general election in the name a state of emergency and rule by decree. So what do you have to say to the street protesters? Not to resort to violence so that we do not render Mahathir with any excuse to employ the dirty trick?
AZIZAH: Of course, there's a remote chance of the Prime Minister declaring emergency. But the violence is not incited by the protesters ... because the authorities has clamped down with such brutality ... and this is just retaliation because the National Justice Party ... does not incite the violence. If you have the authorities not giving warning and then firing shots... Of course, they would resort to retaliation.
(voice of caller from Indonesia): I am not into politics Wan Azizah, but I would like to find out how do you deal with the children now that the father is being accused or whatever. How do you handle them as a mother? What is their reaction on this?
AZIZAH: I, of course, as a mother, feel sad that their father is taken away from them. I tried to explain the best I can that their father is a fighter and he is fighting for justice, for the people who have no voice and for the masses. So, we should be proud of him and the children accept that.
Email quesrtion from Victor J: In 1987, when Anwar was a powerful member of government, more than 100 political dissidents were detained without trial. How can Anwar now expect us to join your National Justice Party?
AZIZAH: In1987, he was the number two man; but he was not the most powerful.... If he had voiced out his opposition, he would have been out sooner. He was trying to change the system from within....
Khan: What has been the change in your standing ... standing in the community as a result of you being so openly supportive of your husband?
AZIZAH: I have a lot of support from the masses. This is for justice and they can see that we are fighting for justice for all. And the masses have come forward. You can see that wherever I go. The people come up to me and say, "Be strong. Continue the struggle, and we're all behind you." It is very encouraging.
Khan: A call from Malaysia with a question. Go ahead caller in Malaysia.
(question via phone call from Malaysia): I'd like to know why in the media it hasn't been pointed out that Malaysia does not have a free judiciary system anymore. It has been abolished by the government a couple of years ago.
AZIZAH: Yes, that is quite true. The judiciary is, of course, in question now. As you can see, taking the example of my husband's case, the judicial system seems to be not an independent and professionally run system at the moment. And that 's why we have come forward with the National Justice Party.
Khan: The man who replaced your husband Anwar Ibrahim is Deputy Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. He said that the protests that are now taking place, especially turning so violent, could adversely affect international investments in Malaysia. What' is your assessment of what he's saying?
AZIZAH: We do not invite the protest. It's the government (that) has not allowed avenues for freedom of expression and basic rights in our country. That is why the protestors had to resort to this. Confidence in the country should be by the government giving assurance that we will have a free and democratic society, where ... the judiciary is independent, the media is not only for propaganda and also the police are people-friendly, as advocated by the Deputy Prime Minister himself.
Call from Hong Kong: Dr. Wan Azizah, I am very sympathetic with you, your husband and the things that are going on. But there are so many things going on in this world right now, especially with Mr Clinton and his state of affairs, there are two parts to this question: Did it ever hit you or bother you that all these rumours could be true about your husband? And the second part of the question is, how do you expect the world to believe that these rumours would not be true after so much as the world is bombarded by Mr. Clinton's affairs?
AZIZAH: That's Mr. Clinton’s case. My husband's case is different. It's politically motivated. It’s a conspiracy. It has been shown in court that the evidence was fabricated [but the testimony] was not allowed [by the judge]. A lot of evidence was expunged and ... the charges were amended at the last moment. For sure, these charges were fabricated in a conspiracy to get rid of my husband.
A faxed question from Malaysia: Will your party actively challenge the principles of the existing New Economic Policy?
AZIZAH: Our party is also for the NEP, in the sense that there must be affirmative action for eradication of poverty regardless of race. We also have the economic policy to get rid of corruption, nepotism, and cronyism ... to bring back investor confidence and thereby strengthen our economy. Became the NEP is actually for affirmative action, eradication of poverty ... and the restructuring of society.
Khan: Dr. Azizah, when I asked you the email question about political dissidents when Anwar lbrahim was Deputy PM in 1987, you said basically he was a team player. Yet he came out according to all accounts acting against Dr. Mahathir Mohamad. What made him change from being a team player to being openly against Dr. Mahathir Mohamad?
AZIZAH: He was getting a lot of pressure because he was not going along with the bailing out of big companies close to the Prime Minister. And when the economy took a downturn, there wasn't enough to go around.... He was just trying to protect the interests of the majority of the people....
It came about, therefore, he was growing apart from the Prime Minister. And slowly, he got in the way of Dr. Mahathir, and the Prime Minister with all the power and institutions of government then took my husband to task and made steps to get him out.
A caller from Tokyo, Japan: I’m also very sympathetic to what has happened to you and especially to your husband. I'd like to know whatever happened to the top officer that beat up your husband? Did he ever face trial for such an abuse?
AZIZAH: He’s supposed to face trial. The royal inquiry has advocated certain steps to have him charged. But we have yet to see what happens. I am waiting for the Home Minister then and the Home Minister now to come up with some sort of response to the result of this inquiry and to the confession of the former Inspector-General of Police who admitted hitting my husband.
A call from Hong Kong: My question is looking at the news from CNN, there are lots of rioters chanting "reformasi." It may seem that it may come from the National Justice Party. So is the party or the president going to do anything about it to prevent these demonstrators from rioting or causing any upheavals in the future?
AZIZAH: This is not causing any upheaval. This [would not have] happened if the government had not had this injustice so blatantly done, not only against my husband, but also [subsequently] the protestors. It is the right of citizens to come out and have their freedom of expression and freedom of speech and not be clamped down like this brutally. If the government had allowed the media to cover it in a proper way, saying [the truth of] whatever happened, that it was the police who incited it in the first place, then we wouldn't have this "upheaval," as you call it.
Khan: Dr. Wan Azizah Ismail, thank you very much for joining us.