Paul: Before I met Richard, I'd
seen the Allstars busking on the streets of Canberra. Hated them. I
hated them vehemently. I didn't like their stuff at all.
Then we were both performing at the same cabaret club and Richard
and I got talking afterwards. We discussed working together. A few
weeks later the third member of the group, Robert, was ill and Richard
asked me to fill in. I ended up staying.
We always had disagreements about the best way to handle things,
the right music. Richard and I always had difficulties. I argue
sensibly, with God and right on my side. Richard argues in a
belligerent way and is closed off to suggestions. I?m very forgiving
and he seems to hold on to pain.
Actually, I?m considered a monster.
While we were in the group, we lost track of friendship. You think:
if the friendship is affected we?ll give up because friendship is more
important. But then you think, no, money - money is more important.
Any attempt to share our feelings or be honest was an invitation
to be mercilessly attacked by the other two. The comedy was always
black. Richard probably suffered more because he was more honest.
Nobody could afford to slip up - it was survival of the fittest. It
was always a battle of wills. He would accuse me of being domineering and controlling. But you?ve got to come up with the material and the last thing you want is a committee. These things work better as a dictatorship.
But I didn't always get my way. It took us a year to do
Commies For Christ - one of our most successful songs -
because Richard didn?t like rap. Is he obstinate' I didn't say that.
Let's say he has strong will power.
He?s an incredibly tenacious person - incredible will to achieve,
which I admire. When the group broke up, he wasn't going to do
performance stuff because it wasn't so much his forte as ours. He saw
himself as having a serious job. Well, now he's developed this whole
CD-ROM thing and is holding down jobs in television.
Quite a severe shock. I was probably cramping his style all those
years.
I think he was pretty unhappy in the middle years of the group.
I was part of the problem. I think I let him down. I was probably
nasty, even vindictive and cruel, but we came through it - the fact
that we've still retained the friendship is so valuable.
A cathartic thing happened in Barcelona. We'd been there for the
post-Olympics entertainment and we were at the airport along with
half a million other people desperately trying to get home. I was so
incredibly tired and angry. What triggered it was Richard going off
to buy a paper while I struggled up the escalator with everyone's
luggage. I lost my temper. I said I couldn?t stand it any more, we
were at loggerheads all the time. I was very , very aggressive.
Richard was noble and listened to me. We sat, surrounded by all this
hullabaloo and people and luggage, and talked for an hour at least.
There might even have been a bit of crying.
Will I know him for the rest of my life? I have no idea.
Richard:We met at Cafe Boom Boom, a cabaret venue in Canberra. Paul was in a group called Gigantic Fly, parodying ?30s films, very clever. My first impression was that he had a beautiful singing voice. He was also spiky
which was good. He had really abrasive moments in his performance.
We were very young. Tim was a bit of an explosive hippie in those
days. Robert and I would stand there and smile a lot. When Paul
joined, he changed the dynamic. He would come out with the worst
possible thing that was in the back of everybody's mind.
A really nasty, poisonous thought. I really enjoyed that. Once his
mother was in the audience and Paul was doing a song called
Mummy Dearest about crawling back inside your mother's womb.
It was spectacularly visceral and offensive.
At first, I was happy to sing along and play guitar and play the
straight man. Then the group moved to Melbourne and the audiences
just weren't responding - we had to do something to provoke them.
We started being a lot more vicious. I realised I wasn't as good at
abuse as Tim and Paul - it made more sense for me to be the victim.
I became Mr Stupid who was just naturally happy.
Paul being Mr Grumpy is pretty much for real. I've never known
anybody to have such prolonged periods of grumpiness. He has a whole
series of laws in his head and he can get very angry if you break
one - and it's so easy. Not leaving enough milk for his tea would be
one.
He is a bully, yes. He accuses people of his own worst sins.
He could be bullying because he needed to show leadership in a
situation where we were letting things slide. Other times it would
be just his need to maintain authority and, often, to insist
on his artistic prerogative. In retrospect, that was reasonable
because he was the main artistic engine in the group. Not that I had
been a picnic to work with either. My faults were, well, laziness
and thoughtlessness, I suppose.
Paul is a very complex man. He?s incredibly loyal - even though
he might behave dreadfully to you to your face, then you hear
stories of him coming to your defence. But he?s also very
unforgiving if he suspects you of disloyalty.
Once, I remember, we were painting backdrops in this theatre -
he was doing the bulk of the work and I was going along in my own
slow, plodding way - and we were talking, for hours. I felt really
happy at the end, when we?d finished. It was like we'd reminded
ourselves of why we?d liked each other in the first place.
Somebody said we were like an old married couple who know each
other very well and always bicker. Well, that's true in a way.
When we were touring, we'd spend months on end sharing a Tarago
stinking of Big Macs and beer and personal body odour. We were living
like a triple-headed hydra confined in our roles both on and off
stage. Here were so many rows and periods when we couldn't talk to
each other. Paul's changed a lot since the group broke up. Mr Nasty
could take a rest and this sweet guy emerged. Anyway, the animosity
got less and less, gradually the toxicity leached out of the system.
It has been a very pleasant time, resuming a friendship.
Paul has two modes of being. Very gregarious or painfully shy.
He's happiest when he's been painting successfully (if the painting's
bad then he's terrible) and when he's in party mode. He is truly
sensational then. He's a very, very good dancer and if he's poured
a few drinks down his ridiculous neck and lost his head, he can
actually be quite pleasant.
Will I know him for the rest of my life? Absolutely. For sure.
Interview by Jan Wheatley
* Note by Caroline: (Only on Fridays!)
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