Session Start: Tue Nov 04 23:07:00 1997
* Logging #IsraeliCafe to: [#israeli.log]
*** AlyzaCCC changes topic to "Hebrew 101: Lesson 5 continues"
AlyzaCCC: now the class begins
AlyzaCCC: íéìùåøé
AlyzaCCC: ._T :
AlyzaCCC: okay, this is a new word
Ruth: ok
AlyzaCCC: the vowel after the raish is the ooo vowel
Ruth: ehroowshalohm
Ruth: no
AlyzaCCC: okay, what sound does the íéìùåøé
AlyzaCCC: first letter make?
Ruth: eh
AlyzaCCC: no, é. = ee
AlyzaCCC: but é at as a letter by itself sounds like a y
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: íéìùåøé
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: ._T :
Mikhaeil: yruwsholaim
AlyzaCCC: close, but there is no w :-)
Mikhaeil: yrusholaim
AlyzaCCC: what sound does the sheva make if it is at the beginning
of a sylablle?
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: íéìùåøé
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: ._T :
Ruth: yih
Ruth: ih
AlyzaCCC: good, yih
AlyzaCCC: now, Mikahaiel has the next syllable for you
Mikhaeil: Not allways, it depends
AlyzaCCC: yes, but in this case it is
Mikhaeil: I will have to ask our Mori.
Mikhaeil: yirusholaim
* AlyzaCCC is hamorah here
AlyzaCCC: with an ashkenazi accent, sure
AlyzaCCC: :-)
Ruth: yihrooshahlyeem
Mikhaeil: What are the rules for the vocal shwa as to the different
sounds it makes?
AlyzaCCC: Yerushalayim (Yehr-roo-shah-lah-yeem),
AlyzaCCC: it is the true name of what in English is called
AlyzaCCC: Jerusalem.
AlyzaCCC: .
AlyzaCCC: the general rules for the sheva (there are exceptions) is
at the end of a syllable or word, it is silent and acts as a stop
AlyzaCCC: at the beginning of a syllable or word it makes a very short
ih sound
Mikhaeil: Yes, but I am referering to the vocal shwa.
AlyzaCCC: I was giving both rules
AlyzaCCC: as this class knows them (we are Hebrew 101 after all)
Mikhaeil: I know it is not always chireq,sometimes it is pattach.
AlyzaCCC: I am going to give another word, please refrain fromm talking
while I do so
Mikhaeil: OK, I can find out later, don't want to hold up class.
AlyzaCCC: Mikhaeil general rule, not exceptions
AlyzaCCC: íéìùåøéá
Mikhaeil: birusholaim
AlyzaCCC: nope
AlyzaCCC: íéìùåøéá
AlyzaCCC: ._T .
AlyzaCCC: now, let me say first of all, it has a dagesh in the first
letter
AlyzaCCC: which makes it what?
Ruth: ok
Ruth: bet
AlyzaCCC: good
Mikhaeil: beith
Ruth: beerooshahlyeem
AlyzaCCC: tov maod!
Mikhaeil: birushoLAyim
Mikhaeil: not shalyim
AlyzaCCC: With a Dagesh in the first letter, making it a Bet
AlyzaCCC: Be-rushalayim (bee-roo-shah-lah-yeem)
AlyzaCCC: It means in Jerusalem.
AlyzaCCC: yes, Mikhaeil that is correct
AlyzaCCC: Ruth, did you notice that instead of
AlyzaCCC: á
AlyzaCCC: :
AlyzaCCC: á
AlyzaCCC: :
AlyzaCCC: we have
AlyzaCCC: á
AlyzaCCC: .
AlyzaCCC: it is an exception to the normal in a or in the
AlyzaCCC: use
AlyzaCCC: áúåë
AlyzaCCC: ~
AlyzaCCC: where ~ stands for ..
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: áúåë
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: ~
AlyzaCCC: how is that pronounced, Ruth
Ruth: ?
AlyzaCCC: yes?
Ruth: Is the last letter a bet or veht?
AlyzaCCC: oh, neither, it is smooth, no protrusion
Mikhaeil: what is the question now?
AlyzaCCC: and it has a dagesh
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: áúåë
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: ~
AlyzaCCC: ~ = ..
AlyzaCCC: but fits under 1 letter better
Ruth: I mean the á, sorry
Mikhaeil: Oh you mean a seirei?
Mikhaeil: ok, so ~ is ..
AlyzaCCC: doh, sorry, I thought yoou meant the first letter
AlyzaCCC: the last letter has no dagesh
Ruth: ok
Ruth: kohtehv
Mikhaeil: So, what is the question?
Mikhaeil: kowtheibh
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: áúåë
AlyzaCCC: AlyzaCCC: ~
AlyzaCCC: pronounce it
AlyzaCCC: the second vowel is sometimes represented by a i
AlyzaCCC: áúië
AlyzaCCC: ~
Mikhaeil: is the wow a chowlem-wow?
AlyzaCCC: yes
Mikhaeil: ok, kowtheibh
AlyzaCCC: no th sound, only t sound
Mikhaeil: Does the tow have a dogheish or not?
AlyzaCCC: and since the last letter has no dagesh, it is a vet
AlyzaCCC: not a bet
Mikhaeil: ok, I will use v instead of bh.
AlyzaCCC: the tav is acting as a vowel, and is dagesh less
Mikhaeil: taw with dagheish is t, taw without dagheish is th, there
for kotheiv
Mikhaeil: transliterations are so difficult.
AlyzaCCC: we make it simple, tav is always transliterated as t
AlyzaCCC: sephardic pronounciation
Mikhaeil: Then why not have beith always b?
AlyzaCCC: because, Mikhaeil, that is not how it is pronounced in Israel
AlyzaCCC: in Israel bet and vet are different, but tav and thav are
not
AlyzaCCC: áúåë
AlyzaCCC: ~
Mikhaeil: So, no other pronunciations are permitted (ashkenazi, teimani,
iraqi, etc...)?
AlyzaCCC: here I teach only the Sephardic modern Hebrew pronounciation
Ruth: Mikhaeil, I confuse easily!
AlyzaCCC: I do not want to confuse the students with all the various
accents possible
AlyzaCCC: I know the ashkenazi and sephardic, but here I use only one
AlyzaCCC: The dagesh in the first letter makes it a kaf
AlyzaCCC: Kohtehv (m.s.) it is the verb meaning write
AlyzaCCC: in the masculine singular form.
Mikhaeil: well, I only know iraqi and teimani, so what should I do?
AlyzaCCC: learn a 3rd way?
AlyzaCCC: I will try to teach you how we do it here
AlyzaCCC: as we go along
AlyzaCCC: and, you can always visit the web site
Mikhaeil: ok, I will check the web site
AlyzaCCC: íéáúåë
AlyzaCCC: .:
AlyzaCCC: there
Ruth: kohtbeem
AlyzaCCC: okay, take the dagesh out of the 4th letter and say it again
Ruth: kohtveem
AlyzaCCC: good
AlyzaCCC: Mikhaeil, do you see how each letter was transliterated?
AlyzaCCC: Kohtveeym it means write (m. pl).
AlyzaCCC: The kaf has a dagesh in it.
AlyzaCCC: ìò
AlyzaCCC: _
Ruth: ahl
Mikhaeil: kothvim
AlyzaCCC: right, ahl
Mikhaeil: `al
AlyzaCCC: we use ahl, as then everyone knows how the vowel is pronounced
Mikhaeil: do you use 3 or ` for the `ayin?
Mikhaeil: 3al or `al
AlyzaCCC: same with the oh in koht veem
AlyzaCCC: no, I do not transliterate it that way, as I am trying to
simulate a live class where people talk
AlyzaCCC: I want it typed like it is pronounced
Mikhaeil: ok
Mikhaeil: `al
AlyzaCCC: so I know the students are learning the pronounciation correctly
AlyzaCCC: Ahl, it means On, about.
AlyzaCCC: it has a few other meanings, but these will suffice for now
AlyzaCCC: Note: for this next one, a chet at the end with a _ under
it is pronounced 'ach' instead of
AlyzaCCC: cha as one would expect. It is a reading rule
that you need to remember.
Mikhaeil: yes, the furtive pattach
AlyzaCCC: remember, the ch is as in lach
AlyzaCCC: loch
AlyzaCCC: çåì
AlyzaCCC: _
Mikhaeil: luach
AlyzaCCC: the vav has a dagesh in its middle
Ruth: looach
AlyzaCCC: right, both of you
AlyzaCCC: Loo-ach, it means chalkboard (m.). (luach is
normally the transliteration, loo-ach is how it is pronounced)
Mikhaeil: I thought it nmeanta tablet
AlyzaCCC: that also, Mikhaeil
AlyzaCCC: but I try not to give too many meanings of words that have
multiple meanins
AlyzaCCC: and the kind of tablet is like a stone one, or slate
AlyzaCCC: not a paper notebook
AlyzaCCC: that is a machberet
Ruth: ?
AlyzaCCC: well, that is the new vocabulary. This Sat at 10:30
pm EST we will review it
AlyzaCCC: yes, Ruth?
Ruth: like Moshe and the tablets?
AlyzaCCC: yes!
AlyzaCCC: exactly!
Ruth: kewl!
Mikhaeil: luchoth
AlyzaCCC: loo-ach, of course, means only one tablet
Ruth: ok
AlyzaCCC: okay, class is over for today
Session Close: Tue Nov 04 23:56:36 1997
