chatter@amiga.co.uk DIGEST

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 15:38:31 +0100
Subject: Re: Stats

Hi Alan R Barr :)

On 02-May-98, Alan R Barr wrote:

> Er....Oops , My only excuse is that I was still holding my head down
from
> last week , and wasn't looking at the screen ;-) .

LOL

At least you *were* posting last week, which is more than most people
it seems. :)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: Alan R Barr
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:54:00 +0100
Subject: SCSI_IDE File

Hi Gents
A question to you all :- has anyone successfully installed the file from
AI's website called SCSI_IDE43.23.lha , I have been struggling all
this afternoon with it , but the Amy refuses to boot up as per normal
i.e into a picasso screen , all I get is dos screen telling me that it
cannot "load" loadV43module......which is living in "C" along with
A1000.ld.strip....

And an update to Turboprint6 spool proggy is on irseesofts website
http://www.irseesoft.com/english.htm     a fix for the turbospool bug
+ some extra printer drivers .

Just thought I would let you know ....


--

#Amiga Makes it a Reality#
Alan R Barr
#A4000# with various "bits" attached
Team #AMIGA#

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 19:48:12 +0100
Subject: Interesting happenings

Hi :)

Thought I'd let you know that I'm currently logging an IRC conference
that includes representatives of Amiga Inc, Team Amiga, JMS, and ICOA.

There are some interesting peices of information being being given,
not to mention great massive hints.

I'll post the log on the website as soon as the conference is over.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 13:30:06 -0000
Subject: Re: HD? -> DH?

On 27-Apr-98, Quark carefully put 2 fingers to the keyboard and picked out the
following letters

>I took the plunge and renamed them using RDprep, no problem.   And at the
>same time deleted a partition (I thought 4 was a bit excessive...)
>thanks anyway.

I have 4, the 2 normal ones, a Data one (that contains my archives from
aminet and a copy of Workbench as it's set up each week) and one called
temp. I use the temp one for caches and DL'd files etc. It's only small
(20 Megs) so when it invalidates on, say, an IB crash it revalidates
quickly. It also means that I do things with DL'd files quickly else
it fills up.

Steve

--
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  / /_/ /__ _(_)__ _/ /   __ __
/ __   / _ `/ / _ `/ _ \/ // /  
/_/ /_/\_,_/_/\_, /_//_/\_, /    
                        /___/         /___/    

Haighy@thenet.co.uk

... When more and more people are thrown out of work, unemployment results. --
Calvin Coolidge

* Pick-Tag v2.5 * Registered to Steve Haigh.

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 16:44:04 -0000
Subject: Is Bill Gates Too Rich... a sobering thought


IS BILL GATES TOO RICH?

Examine Bill Gates' wealth compared to yours: Consider the average
American of reasonable but modest wealth. Perhaps he has a net worth of
$100,000. Mr. Gates' worth is 400,000 times larger. Which means that if
something costs $100,000 to him, to Bill it's as though it costs 25
cents. You can work out the right multiplier for your own net worth.

So for example, you might think a new Lamborghini Diablo would cost
$250,000, but in Bill Gates dollars that's 63 cents.   That fully loaded,
multimedia active matrix 233 MHZ laptop with the 1024x768 screen you've
been drooling after? A penny.   A nice home in a rich town Palo Alto,
California? Two dollars. That nice mansion he's building? A reasonable
$125 to him.   You might spend $100 on tickets, food and parking to take
your family to see an NHL hockey game. Bill, on the other hand, could
buy the team for 100 Bill- bills.

You might buy a plane ticket on a Boeing 747 for $1200 at full-fare
coach. In Bill-bills, Mr.. Gates could buy three 747s. One for him, one
for Melinda and one for young Jennifer Katherine. Yet More: Evan Marcus,
a Systems Engineer from Fair Lawn, New Jersey who maintains a Bill Gates
Net Worth Page on his web site, notes that Bill could buy every single
major league team in   Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey for only
about 35% of his net worth -- plenty left over to buy a European sport.
Of course then he wouldn't have around $150 for every person in the USA
as he does now. Nor could he still give $6.70 to every person on the
planet.

Marcus suggests that Bill could only pay Michael Jordan's 1997 salary
only 1300 times, but that he could buy 902 million subscriptions to TV
guide. He's also fascinated by how much all this money would be if put
into dollar bills. Laid end to end, the Bills would stretch 3.8 million
miles -- to the moon and back over 8 times. They could paper over all of
Manhattan 7 times,   or be stacked 2,690 miles high -- watch out for
satellites. They would weigh 40,000 tons -- 100 times the weight of one
of those 747s he bought above.

But one thing Marcus says Bill can't do is even dent the national debt.
Should he selflessly donate his stock to the U.S. treasury,   he would
reduce the $5.37 trillion national debt by well under 1%.   It's nice to
put things in perspective.
                                                                                               
                             
Scary or what ?

Steve
--
    __   __         _           __          
  / /_/ /__ _(_)__ _/ /   __ __
/ __   / _ `/ / _ `/ _ \/ // /  
/_/ /_/\_,_/_/\_, /_//_/\_, /    
                        /___/         /___/    

Haighy@thenet.co.uk

... Eighty percent of air pollution comes from plants and trees. -- Ronald
Reagan, famous movie star

* Pick-Tag v2.5 * Registered to Steve Haigh.

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:27:57 -0000
Subject: What with a melted keyboard and a course...

I haven't sent a joke for a week (never use a computer solvent cleaner that is
safe on
*most* plastics)
So here's a few to be getting on with.

Steve
PS before you flame me for 6 posts pretend you got them 1 a day :-)

--
    __   __         _           __          
  / /_/ /__ _(_)__ _/ /   __ __
/ __   / _ `/ / _ `/ _ \/ // /  
/_/ /_/\_,_/_/\_, /_//_/\_, /    
                        /___/         /___/    

Haighy@thenet.co.uk

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:31:59 -0000
Subject: Mondays Joke from Haighy


The Top 12 Things You Don't Want to Hear From Tech Support

12.   "Do you have a sledgehammer or a brick handy?"
11.   "...that's right, not even McGyver could fix it."
10.   "So -- what are you wearing?"
9.     "Duuuuuude!   Bummer!"
8.     "Looks like you're gonna need some new dilythium crystals, Cap'n."
7.     "Press 1 for Support.   Press 2 if you're with 60 Minutes.   Press 3 if
          you're with the FTC."
6.     "We can fix this, but you're gonna need a butter knife, a roll of duct
          tape, and a car battery."
5.     "I'm sorry, Dave.   I'm afraid I can't do that."
4.     "In layman's terms, we call that the Hindenburg Effect."
3.     "Hold on a second...   Mom! Timmy's hitting me!"
2.     "Hang on for a second... I'm not finished reading TrashLaughs."

          and the Number 1 Thing You Don't Want to Hear From Tech Support...

1.     "What's the 'Good Times Virus',.. I never heard of it before!"

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:49:07 -0000
Subject: Saturdays Joke from Haighy

Puns, puns.... Get your puns here



1.   A group of chess enthusiasts had checked into a hotel, and were
standing in the lobby discussing their recent tournament victories.
After about an hour, the manager came out of the office and asked them
to disperse.   "But why?", they asked, as they moved off.   "Because," he
said, "I can't stand chess nuts boasting in an open foyer."

2.   A doctor made it his regular habit to stop off at a bar for a
hazelnut daiquiri on his way home.   The bartender knew of his habit,
and would always have the drink waiting at precisely 5:03 p.m.   One
afternoon, as the end of the work day approached, the bartender was
dismayed to find that he was out of   hazlenut extract.   Thinking
quickly, he threw together a daiquiri made with hickory nuts and set it
on the bar.   The doctor came in at his regular time, took one sip of
the drink and exclaimed, "This isn't a hazelnut daiquiri!" "No, I'm
sorry", replied the bartender, "it's a hickory daiquiri, doc."

3.   A hungry African lion was roaming through the jungle looking for
something to eat.   He came across two men.   One was sitting under a
tree and reading a book; the other was typing away on his typewriter.
The lion quickly pounced on the man reading the book and devoured
him.   Even the king of the jungle knows that readers digest and
writers cramp.

4.   There was a man who entered a local paper's pun contest.   He sent in
ten different puns, in the hope that at least one of the puns would win.
Unfortunately, no pun in ten did.

5.   A guy goes to a psychiatrist.   "Doc, I keep having these alternating
recurring dreams.   First I'm a teepee; then I'm a wigwam; then I'm a
teepee;   then I'm a wigwam.   It's driving me crazy.   What's wrong
with me?" The doctor replies:   "It's very simple.   You're two tents."

6.   A man went to his dentist because he feels something wrong in his
mouth.   The dentist examines him and says, "that new upper plate I
put in for you six months ago is eroding.   What have you been
eating?"   The man replies, "all I can think of is that about four
months ago my wife made some asparagus and put some stuff on it that
was delicious...Hollandaise sauce.   I loved it so much I now put it
on everything --- meat, toast, fish, vegtables, everything."
"Well," says the dentist, "that's probably the problem.   Hollandaise
sauce is made with lots of lemon juice, which is highly corrosive.
It's eaten away your upper plate.   I'll make you a new plate, and this
time use chrome."   "Why   chrome?" asks the patient.   To which the
dentist replies, "It's simple,
Everyone knows that there's no plate like chrome for the Hollandaise!"

7.   An Indian chief had three wives, each of whom was pregnant.   The
first gave   birth to a boy.   The chief was so elated he built her a
teepee made of deer hide.   A few days later, the second gave birth,
also to a boy.   The chief was very happy.   He built her a teepee made of
antelope hide.   The third wife gave birth a few days later, but the
chief kept the details a secret.   He built this one a two story
teepee, made out of a hippopotamus hide.   He challenged the tribe to
guess what had occurred.   Many tried, unsuccessfully. Finally, one
young brave declared that the third wife had given birth to twin boys.
"Correct," said the chief.   "How did you figure it out?" The warrior
answered, "It's elementary.   The value of the squaw of the
hippopotamus is equal to the sons of the squaws of the other two."
                                                                                             

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:46:24 -0000
Subject: Fridays Joke from Haighy


Lawyer bashing with a difference...(i.e. it is being done by the
lawyers themselves).


Recently reported in the Massachusetts Bar Association Lawyers
Journal, the following are questions actually asked of witnesses
by attorneys during   trials and, in certain cases, the responses
given by insightful witnesses:


"Now doctor, isn't it true that when a person dies in his sleep, he
doesn't know about it until the next morning?"

"The youngest son, the twenty-year old, how old is he?"

"Were you present when your picture was taken?"
Q: "Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a
      pulse?"
A: "No."
Q: "Did you check for blood pressure?"   A: "No."
Q: "Did you check for breathing?"
A: "No."
Q: "So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you
      began the autopsy?"
A: "No."
Q: "How can you be so sure, Doctor?"
A: "Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar."
Q: "But could the patient have still been alive nevertheless?"
A: "It is possible that he could have been alive and practising law
      somewhere."

"Was it you or your younger brother who was killed in the war?"

"Did he kill you?"

"How far apart were the vehicles at the time of the collision?"

"You were there until the time you left, is that true?"

"How many times have you committed suicide?"
Q: "So the date of conception (of the baby) was August 8th?"
A: "Yes."
Q: "And what were you doing at that time?"

Q: "She had three children, right?"
A: "Yes."
Q: "How many were boys?"
A: "None."
Q: "Were there any girls?"

Q: "You say the stairs went down to the basement?"
A: "Yes."
Q: "And these stairs, did they go up also?"

Q: "Mr. Slatery, you went on a rather elaborate honeymoon, didn't you?"
A: "I went to Europe, Sir."
Q: "And you took your new wife?"

Q: "How was your first marriage terminated?"
A: "By death."
Q: "And by who's death was it terminated?"

Q: "Can you describe the individual?"
A: "He was about medium height and had a beard."
Q: "Was this a male,   or a female?"

Q: "Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition
      notice   which I sent to your attorney?"
A: "No, this is how I dress when I go to work."

Q: "Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead people?"
A: "All my autopsies are performed on dead people."

Q: "All your responses must be oral, OK? What school did you go to?"
A: "Oral."

Q: "Do you recall the time that you examined the body?"
A: "The autopsy started around 8:30 p.m.."
Q: "And Mr. Dennington was dead at the time?"
A: "No, he was sitting on the table wondering why I was doing an
autopsy."

Q: "You were not shot in the fracas?"
A: "No, I was shot midway between the fracas and the navel."

Q: "Are you qualified to give a urine sample?"
A: "I have been since early childhood."

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:39:00 -0000
Subject: Thursdays Joke from Haighy


REAL STORIES OF THE NON-TECHNICALLY INCLINED

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I worked with an individual who plugged their power strip back into
itself and for the life of them could not understand why their
computer would not turn on.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1st Person: "Do you know anything about this fax-machine?"
2nd Person: "A little. What's wrong?"
1st Person: "Well, I sent a fax, and the recipient called back to
say all she received was a cover-sheet and a blank page. I tried it
again, and the same thing happened."
2nd Person: "How did you load the sheet?" 1st Person: "It's a pretty
sensitive memo, and I didn't want anyone else to read it by accident,
so I folded it so only the recipient would open it and read it."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I recently saw a distraught young lady weeping beside her car. "Do
you need some help?" I asked. She replied, "I knew I should have
replaced the battery in this remote door unlocker. Now I can't get
into my car. Do you think they (pointing to a distant convenience
store) would have a battery for this?" "Hmmm, I dunno. Do you have
an alarm, too?" I asked. "No, just this remote 'thingy,'" she
answered, handing it and the car keys to me. As I took the key and
manually unlocked the door, I replied, "Why don't you drive over
there and check about the batteries...it's a long walk."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - -

Tech Support: "What does the screen say now."
Person: "It says, 'Hit ENTER when ready'."
Tech Support: "Well?" Person:   "How do I know when it's ready?"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

My friend called his car insurance company to tell them to change
his address from Texas to Vermont. The woman who took the call asked
where Vermont was. As he tried to explain, she interrupted and said,
"Look, I'm not stupid or anything, but what state is it in?"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Several years ago we had an intern who was none too swift. One day
he was typing and turned to a secretary and said, "I'm almost out of
typing paper. What do I do?" "Just use copier paper," she told him.
With that, the intern took his last remaining blank piece of paper,
put it on the photocopier and proceeded to make five blank copies.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I was working the help desk. One day one of the computer operators
called me and asked if anything "bad" would happen if she dropped
coins into the openings of her PC. I asked her if this was something
she was thinking of doing. She said, "never mind" and hung up. So I
got out my trusty tool kit and paid her a visit. I opened her CPU
case and sure enough, there was 40 cents.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

One of our servers crashed. I was watching our new system
administrator trying to restore it. He inserted a CD and needed to
type a path name to a directory named "i386." He started to type it
and paused, asking me, "Where's the key for that line thing?"

I asked what he was talking about, and he said, "You know, that one
that looks like an upside-down exclamation mark."

I replied, "You mean the letter "i"?" and he said, "Yeah, that's it!"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This person had a broken lamp which he wanted to discard.
Unfortunately, the power cord ran under his refrigerator, making it
impossible to move the lamp while the cord was attached. He decided
to cut the cord, since the lamp was unusable anyway. He didn't
remember to unplug it first. I found him in the hallway rolling back
and forth.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I was in a car dealership a while ago when a large motorhome was
towed into the garage. The front of the vehicle was in dire need of
repair and the whole thing generally looked like an extra in
"Twister." I asked the manager what had happened. He told me that
the driver had set the cruise control, then went in back to make a
sandwich.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I called a company and asked to speak to Bob. The person who
answered said, "Bob is on vacation. Would you like to hold?"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I rented a movie from Blockbuster. Before the movie begins a message
comes on the screen saying, "This movie has been altered to fit your
television screen." Comment from person: "How do they know what size
screen I have?"

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:36:38 -0000
Subject: Tuesdays Joke from Haighy



Bill Gates died and, much to everyone's surprise, went to
Heaven. When he got there, he had to wait in the reception area.

Heaven's reception area was the size of Massachusetts.
There were literally millions of people milling about,
living in tents with nothing to do all day.
Food and water were being distributed from the backs of
trucks, while staffers with clipboards slowly worked
their way through the crowd. Booze and drugs were being
passed around.   Fights were commonplace. Sanitation
conditions were appalling.   All in all, the scene
looked like Woodstock gone metastatic. Bill lived in a
tent for three weeks until, finally, one of the staffers
approached him.   The staffer was a young man in his
late teens, face scarred with acne. He was wearing a blue
T-shirt with the words TEAM PETER emblazoned on it in
large yellow lettering.

"Hello," said the staffer in a bored voice that could have
been the voice of any clerk in any overgrown bureaucracy.  

"My name is Gabriel and I'll be your induction coordinator."  

Bill started to ask a question, but Gabriel interrupted him.

"No, I'm not the Archangel Gabriel.   I'm just a guy from
Philadelphia named Gabriel who died in a car wreck at the
age of 17.   Now give me your name, last name first, unless
you were Chinese in which case it's first name first."

"Gates, Bill."   Gabriel started searching though the sheaf
of papers on his clipboard, looking for Bill's Record of
Earthly Works.

"What's going on here?"

Gabriel ignored the questions until he located Bill's
records.   Then Gabriel looked up in surprise.  

"It says here that you were the president of a large
software company.   Is that right?"

"Yes."

"Well then, do the math, chip-head!   When this Saint Peter
business started, it was an easy gig.   Only a hundred or
so people died every day, and Peter could handle it all
by himself, no problem.   But now there are over five
billion people on earth.   Jesus, when God said to 'go forth
and multiply,' he didn't say 'like rabbits!'   With that
large a population, ten thousand people die every hour.  
Over a quarter-million people a day.   Do you think Peter can
meet them all personally?"

"I guess not."

"You guess right.   So Peter had to franchise the operation.
Now, Peter is the CEO of Team Peter Enterprises, Inc.  
He just sits in the corporate headquarters and sets policy.
Franchisees like me handle the actual inductions."  
Gabriel looked though his paperwork some more, and then
continued. "Your paperwork seems to be in order.   And with a
background like yours, you'll be getting a plum job assignment."

"Job assignment?"

"Of course.   Did you expect to spend the rest of eternity
sitting on your ass and drinking ambrosia?   Heaven is a
big operation.   You have to pull your weight around here!"
Gabriel took out a triplicate form, had Bill sign at the
bottom, and then tore out the middle copy and handed it to
Bill. "Take this down to induction center #23 and meet up
with your occupational orientator.
His name is Abraham."   Bill started to ask a question, but
Gabriel interrupted him. "No, he's not *that* Abraham."

Bill made his way to see Abraham.

"Heaven is centuries behind in building its data processing
infrastructure," explained Abraham.   "As you've seen, we're
still doing everything on paper. It takes us a week just to
process new entries.   Your job will be to supervise
Heaven's new data processing center.   We're building the
largest computing facility in creation.   Half a million
computers connected by a multi-segment fiber optic network,
all running into a back-end server network with a thousand
CPUs on a gigabit channel. Fully fault tolerant.  
Fully distributed processing.
The works."

Bill could barely contain his excitement.   "Wow!   What a
great job!   This is really Heaven!"

"We're just finishing construction, and we'll be starting
operations soon.
Would you like to go see the center now?"

"You bet!"

Abraham and Bill caught the shuttle bus and went to Heaven's
new data processing center.   It was a truly huge facility,
a hundred times bigger than the Astrodome.   The center was
dominated by the computers.   Half a million computers, arranged
neatly row-by-row, half a million ........ Macintoshes ....
... all running Claris software!   Not a PC in sight!   Not a
single byte of Microsoft code!

The thought of spending the rest of eternity using products
that he had spent his whole life working to destroy was too
much for Bill.
"What about PCs???" he exclaimed. "What about Windows???  
What about Excel??? What about Word???"

"You're forgetting something," said Abraham.

"What's that?" asked Bill plaintively.

"This is Heaven," explained Abraham.   "We need a computer
system that's heavenly to use.   If you want to build a data
processing center based on PCs running Windows, then........

GO TO HELL!"

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:36:51 -0000
Subject: Wednesdays Joke from Haighy



                                      SmartHouse.2

  TCI, the nation's largest cable television company, is in talks
  to launch a unique pilot project in conjunction with Pacific Gas
  & Electric Co. and Microsoft Corporation to design a "smart home."
  The home automation industry is expected to triple in size, from
  $1.7 billion this year to more than $5.1 billion by the year 2000.

May 28, 1998
Moved in at last. Finally, we live in the smartest house in the
neighborhood. Everything's networked.   The cable TV is connected to
our phone, which is connected to my PC, which is connected to the
power lines, all the appliances and the security system.   Everything
runs off a universal remote with the friendliest interface I've ever
used.   Programming is a snap.   I'm, like, totally wired.

May 30
Hot stuff! Programmed my VCR from the office, turned up the
thermostat and switched on the lights with the car phone, remotely
tweaked the oven a few degrees for my pizza. Everything nice and cozy
when I arrived. Maybe I should get the universal remote surgically
attached.

June 3
Yesterday, the kitchen crashed. Freak event. As I opened the
refrigerator door, the light bulb blew. Immediately, everything else
electrical shut down - lights, microwave, coffee maker - everything!
Carefully, I unplugged and replugged all the appliances.   Nothing.
Called the cable company (but not from the kitchen phone).   They
refer me to the utility company. The utility insists the problem was
in the software. So the software company runs some remote telediag-
nostics via my house processor.
Their expert system claims it has to be the utility's fault. I don't
care, I just want my kitchen back.   More phone calls.   More remote
diagnostics.
Turns out the problem was "unanticipated failure mode" - the network
had never seen a refrigerator bulb failure while the door was open.
So the fuzzy logic interpreted the burnout as a power surge and shut
down the entire kitchen. But because sensor memory confirmed that
there hadn't actually been a power surge, the kitchen's logic
sequence was confused so it couldn't do a standard restart.
The utility guy swears this was the first time this has ever
happened. Rebooting the kitchen took over an hour.

June 7
The police are not happy. Our house keeps calling them for help.   We
discover that whenever we play the TV or stereo above 25 decibels, it
creates patterns of micro-vibrations that get amplified when they hit
the window. When these vibrations mix with a gust of wind, the
security sensors are actuated and the police computer concludes that
someone is trying to break in.   Go figure....
Another glitch: whenever the basement is in self-diagnostic mode, the
universal remote won't let me change the channels on my TV.   That
means I actually have to get up off the couch and change the channels
by hand!   The software and the utility people say this flaw will be
fixed in the next upgrade - SmartHouse 2.1, but it's not ready yet.

June 12
This is a nightmare.   There's a virus in the house.   My personal
computer caught it while browsing on the public access network. I come
home and the livingroom is a sauna, the bedroom windows are covered
with ice, the refrigerator has defrosted, the washing machine has
flooded the basement, the garage door is cycling up and down and the
TV is stuck on the Home Shopping channel. Throughout the house, lights
flicker like stroboscopes until they explode from the strain. Broken
glass is everywhere.   Of course, the security sensors detect nothing.
I look at a message slowly throbbing on my PC screen:   "Welcome to
HomeWrecker!!! Now the FUN begins....(be it ever so humble, there's
no virus like HomeWrecker....)"   I got out of the house - Fast!

June 18
They think I've digitally disinfected the house, but the place is a
shambles.   Pipes have burst and we're not completely sure we've got
the part of the virus that attacks toilets.   Nevertheless, The
Exorcists (as the anti-virus SWAT members like to call themselves)
are confident the worst is over. "HomeWrecker is pretty bad," one
told me, "but consider yourself lucky you didn't get Poltergeist.
That one is really evil."

June 19
Apparently, our house isn't insured for viruses. "Fires and mudslides
yes," said the claims adjuster, "viruses, no."
My agreement with the SmartHouse people explicitly states that all
claims and warranties are null and void if any appliance or computer
in my house networks in any way, shape or form with a noncertified
on-line service.   Everybody's very, very sorry, but they can't be
expected to anticipate every virus that may be created.
We call our lawyer.   He laughs.   He's excited.

June 21
I get a call from a SmartHouse sales rep.   As a special holiday
offer, we get the free opportunity to become a beta site for the
company's new SmartHouse 2.1 upgrade.   He says I'll be able to meet
the programmers personally.   "Great," I told him.... as I loaded my
shotgun.

From: Paul Ferguson
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 20:31:48 +0100
Subject: Re: Interesting happenings

Hi Eoghann

On 02-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

> Thought I'd let you know that I'm currently logging an IRC conference
> that includes representatives of Amiga Inc, Team Amiga, JMS, and ICOA.

Damn !! I *knew* I was meant to be doing something today....

> There are some interesting peices of information being being given,
> not to mention great massive hints.

Good :)))

> I'll post the log on the website as soon as the conference is over.

Thanks Ego, at least that way I'll get the full story :)

Cheers,
--
*Paul Ferguson* running Amiga and PC in total harmony...I wish ;)
*Sys Admin*: Oxbridge Quality Monitoring System for AMP of GB Ltd
If you want to see how *not* to produce cool web pages go to:
Http://www.jomarcom.u-net.com/
E-Mail:baldrick@jomarcom.u-net.com
                    :PaulFerg@bigfoot.com
                    :ICQ: 9425266

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 23:17:03 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Interesting happenings

Hi Paul Ferguson :)

On 02-May-98, Paul Ferguson wrote:
> On 02-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

>> I'll post the log on the website as soon as the conference is over.

> Thanks Ego, at least that way I'll get the full story :)

The edited log is now up on the website *EVERYONE* should read this.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 19:44:02 +0100
Subject: New PushPull beta

Hi :)

Just finished PushPull V0.6 and I'm still looking for beta testers.
Its relatively stable now... (well it hasn't crashed on me in the last
7 days. ;)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: Paul Ferguson
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 20:45:04 +0100
Subject: Re: New PushPull beta

Hi Eoghann

On 03-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

> Just finished PushPull V0.6 and I'm still looking for beta testers.
> Its relatively stable now... (well it hasn't crashed on me in the last
> 7 days. ;)

Well mate you know me...I'll try (almost) anything once :)

Send it on over !!

Cheers,
--
*Paul Ferguson* running Amiga and PC in total harmony...I wish ;)
*Sys Admin*: Oxbridge Quality Monitoring System for AMP of GB Ltd
If you want to see how *not* to produce cool web pages go to:
Http://www.jomarcom.u-net.com/
E-Mail:baldrick@jomarcom.u-net.com
                    :PaulFerg@bigfoot.com
                    :ICQ: 9425266

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 20:59:36 -0000
Subject: Re: New PushPull beta

On 03-May-98, Eoghann Irving carefully put 2 fingers to the keyboard and
picked out the following letters
> PushPull V0.6

What does it do exactly ?

Steve (still working on the quoting thing)

--
    __   __         _           __          
  / /_/ /__ _(_)__ _/ /   __ __
/ __   / _ `/ / _ `/ _ \/ // /  
/_/ /_/\_,_/_/\_, /_//_/\_, /    
                        /___/         /___/    

Haighy@thenet.co.uk

... Gelb's laws:   1.   You can't win.   2.   You can't break even.   3.   You can't
even quit the game.

* Pick-Tag v2.5 *

From: "Paul Dixon"
Date: 3 May 98 21:53:59 +0100
Subject: W.O.A.

Hello All,
                      Just a line to let you know I will be at the show and I
will be the berk in the Norwich City sweatshirt.
                        So if you see me come and say Hello. I think I will be
near the bar some of the time (some?).
                                  Paul

--
                                                                                        Norwich City FC forever
                                                                                          The "AMIGA" lives on
                                                                                    pauldix@valerie.u-net.com

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 14:48:02 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: New PushPull beta

Hi Steve :)

On 03-May-98, Steve Haigh wrote:
> On 03-May-98, Eoghann Irving carefully put 2 fingers to the keyboard
and
> picked out the following letters
>> PushPull V0.6

> What does it do exactly ?

Well you may remember the fuss last year in the PC world about "Push"
clients which constantly monitored certain channels and sent you the
latest "news".

This is a /Pull/ client.   It monitors the URLs you choose at the time
intervals specified by you and downloads those pages (plus local
images).   After that it does a bit of processing so that you can click
on the links on those pages and get taken back to the website at a
later date.   Oh and it compiles a "Contents page" listing the updated
pages.

Where as Push only really worked if you had a full time fast net
connection, this is much better for offline browsing.

> Steve (still working on the quoting thing)

With all the jokes you posted recently you're quoting % will probably
be 0 this week m8. :)

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

Date: 04 May 98 17:49:44 +0100
From: "Norman Shearer"
Subject: PC's

Hi All,

An old friend of mine has asked me for some advice on getting a PC
computer. He's never touched a computer in his life but now some
educational software has caught his eye and he's keen to get some kinda
set-up going. His wife works for a solicitors firm so I expect she'll want
to play with word-processors and such-like.

I said he should be able to get a reasonable PC set-up for around £500 -
that includes monitor and printer. Can someone give me some general advice
I can pass onto him so that he/we can goto say a computer fair or whatever
and get a VFM system that'll keep him amused?

His needs? Well he doesn't really know himself but I doubt he'll get
heavily into games. Educatinal stuff and simple office software for sure.
Maybe he'll wanna look at a CAD program (he's a carpenter/general builder
by trade).

I guess any sound advice can only follow once he's a) given himself a
budget and b) knows what his needs are more likely to be. He's not in a mad
rush though so even if someone can present me with the right kinda
questions to ask him it'll bring him/us a step closer to choosing the right
system for him.

TIA

Regards
--

                      MM>----------------*A3000T 50/060*------------------/\/orm         /// WB3.1 > 34MB RAM Yamaha CDRW4260 > M1764 monitor \\\
                  ///         56k modem > MFC III > 4X CDD > Picasso IV           \\\
                  \\\               3.2Gig SCSI HD's > Prelude soundcard               ///
                    WW>--------------- norm@thenet.co.uk ----------------

From: Cold Spring
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 18:26:23 -0400
Subject: Modem madness

Hey guys,

Anyone selling a 28.8 or under modem for cheap? Only required for text /
emailing....so baud rate isn't crucial...

Friend of one needs one asap, so any help appreciated...

If no one has one, a url for second hand computer junk would be helpful...

Thanks a lot!

Best wishes,


Justin / COLD SPRING

From: "Taz"
Date: 4 May 98 10:09:08 +0200
Subject: Re: New PushPull beta

> Hi :)
> Just finished PushPull V0.6 and I'm still looking for beta testers.
> Its relatively stable now... (well it hasn't crashed on me in the last
> 7 days. ;)

Send it this way and I will give it a bash :-)

Taz
--

                                        Taz@devil.u-net.com            
                      Http://www.devil.u-net.com/psx.html

                                   

From: bml@thenet.co.uk (bml)
Subject: Re[2]: Interesting happenings
Date: 04 May 1998 06:25:41

Eoghann Irving, you have been found guilty of saying 'Re[2]: Interesting happenings'. What have you to say in your defence?

EI> The edited log is now up on the website *EVERYONE* should read this.

Perhaps you could supply the full URL to it, as I'll be buggered if I can find it :|

Simon Archer

From: bml@thenet.co.uk (bml)
Subject: Re[2]: Interesting happenings
Date: 04 May 1998 06:25:41

Eoghann Irving, you have been found guilty of saying 'Re[2]: Interesting happenings'. What have you to say in your defence?

EI> The edited log is now up on the website *EVERYONE* should read this.

Perhaps you could supply the full URL to it, as I'll be buggered if I can find it :|

Simon Archer

From: bml@thenet.co.uk (bml)
Subject: Re[2]: Interesting happenings
Date: 04 May 1998 06:25:41

Eoghann Irving, you have been found guilty of saying 'Re[2]: Interesting happenings'. What have you to say in your defence?

EI> The edited log is now up on the website *EVERYONE* should read this.

Perhaps you could supply the full URL to it, as I'll be buggered if I can find it :|

Simon Archer

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:11:19 +0100
Subject: Re[3]: Interesting happenings

Hi bml :)

On 04-May-98, bml wrote:
> Eoghann Irving, you have been found guilty of saying 'Re[2]:
Interesting happenings'. What have you to say in your defence?

>> The edited log is now up on the website *EVERYONE* should read
this.

> Perhaps you could supply the full URL to it, as I'll be buggered if
I can find it :|

Err its the very first link on the index page!

https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter/conflog.txt


--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: bml@thenet.co.uk (bml)
Subject: Re[2]: Interesting happenings
Date: 04 May 1998 06:25:41

Eoghann Irving, you have been found guilty of saying 'Re[2]: Interesting happenings'. What have you to say in your defence?

EI> The edited log is now up on the website *EVERYONE* should read this.

Perhaps you could supply the full URL to it, as I'll be buggered if I can find it :|

Simon Archer

From: Ralph Twiss
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:01:49 +0100
Subject: bits & pieces

Hi,
      I may have an Amiga power box PSU for sale for about £30 ,
a Phillips monitor (CM8833-11) for £50
also Amiga Kernal manuals

if any one is interested

Ralph           ralpht@wavenet.co.uk

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:11:00 -0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: New PushPull beta

On 04-May-98, Eoghann Irving carefully put 2 fingers to the keyboard and
picked out the following letters
>Hi Steve :)

Hi Eoghann (your name is longer than mine)

>This is a /Pull/ client.   It monitors the URLs you choose at the time
>intervals specified by you and downloads those pages (plus local
>images).   After that it does a bit of processing so that you can click
>on the links on those pages and get taken back to the website at a
>later date.   Oh and it compiles a "Contents page" listing the updated
>pages.

Does it do this in the background (like when I'm IRC'ing ?) or will
it interfere ? What browser does it need (or can it use any) ? Can
I have a copy :-)

Steve
PS... and my mum always told me to say "Please"

--
    __   __         _           __          
  / /_/ /__ _(_)__ _/ /   __ __
/ __   / _ `/ / _ `/ _ \/ // /  
/_/ /_/\_,_/_/\_, /_//_/\_, /    
                        /___/         /___/    

Haighy@thenet.co.uk

... Giving advice is not as risky as people say, few ever take it
anyway...@William Feather

* Pick-Tag v2.5 *

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:22:01 -0000
Subject: Mondays Joke from Haighy

"How To Install Software - A 12-Step Program"
  by Dave Barry

1. Examine the software packaging until you find a little printed box
that explains what kind of computer system you need to run the software. It
should look something like this:

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
          2386 PROCESSOR OR HIGHER
          628.8 MEGAHERTZ MODEM
          719.7 MB FREE DISK SPACE
          3546 MB RAM
          432323 MB ROM
          05948737 MB RPM
          ANTILOCK BRAKING SYSTEM
          2 TURTLE DOVES
NOTE: This software will not work on your computer.

2. Open the software packaging and remove the manual. This will
contain detailed instructions on installing, operating, and
trouble-shooting the software. Throw it away.

3. Find the actual software, which should be in the form of either a 3.5
inch floppy diskette or a CD-ROM, located inside a sealed envelope that
says:

LICENSING AGREEMENT
By breaking this seal, the user hereinafter agrees to abide by all the
terms and conditions of the following agreement that nobody ever reads, as
well as the Geneva Convention and the U.N. Charter and the Secret
Membership Oath of the Benevolent Protective Order of the Elks and such
other terms and conditions, real and imaginary, as the Software Company
shall deem necessary and appropriate, including the right to come to the
user's home and examine the user's hard drive, as well as the user's
underwear drawer if we feel like it, take it or leave it, until death do us
part, one nation indivisible, by the dawn's early light, finders keepers,
losers weepers, thanks you've been a great crowd, and don't forget to tip
your servers.

4. Hand the software to a child aged between 3 and 12 and say, "(name of
child), please install this on my computer."

5. If you have no child age 3 through 12, insert the software in the
appropriate drive, type "SETUP" and press the Enter key.

6. Turn the computer on, you idiot.

7. Once again type "SETUP" and press the Enter key.

8. You will hear grinding and whirring noises for a while, after which
the following message should appear on your screen:

The Installation Program will now examine your system to see what
would be the best way to render it inoperable. Is it OK with you? Choose
one, and be honest:
                                                        +---------+         +-----------+
                                                        |     YES     |         |     SURE       |        
                                                        +---------+         +-----------+

9. After you make your selection, you will hear grinding and whirring
for a very long time while the installation program does who knows what in
there. Some installation programs can actually alter molecular structures,
so that when they're done, your computer has been transformed into an
entirely new device, such as a food processor. At the very least, the
installation program will create many new directories, sub-directories,
sub-sub-directories, on your hard drive and fill them with thousands of
mysterious files with names like "puree.exe," "fester.dat," and "doo.wha."

10. When the installation program is finished, your screen should
display the following message:

                                            CONGRATULATIONS
The installation program cannot think of anything else to do to your
computer and has grown bored. You may now attempt to run your software. If
you experience any problems, electrical shocks, insomnia, shortness of
breath, nasal discharge, or intestinal parasites, you should immediately
*!@!$)$%@&*^)$*!#$_$*^&

11. At this point your computer system should become less functional
than the federal government, refusing to respond even when struck with
furniture.  

12. Call the toll-free Technical Support Hotline number listed on the
package and wait on the line for a representative, who will explain to you,
in a clear, step-by-step manner, how to adopt a child aged between 3 and 12.

From: Bill Eaves
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 20:06:49 +0100
Subject: Re[3]: Interesting happenings

Hi bml


>> The edited log is now up on the website *EVERYONE* should read this.

> Perhaps you could supply the full URL to it, as I'll be buggered if I can
find it :|


If this is about the IRC log of AI guys, there is an item about it on the
Amiga Web
Directory.





Regards


Bill.

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 01:56:17 -0700
From: gray death legion
Subject: C programing....

hmmm... I have a question for all you c programers (if there anyone on
chatter.)
              i have a 5v dc signal coming in on the parallel port (d1)...
i need to know of a way to put the   high signal (1) on the trailing edge
of the dc signal
into a memory location X.. ( X being some address)

eg       +5vdc   ___*
0                       __[           ]____   ( d1 doesn't go high until the * is hit )

can anyone tell me how to do this in C     :)

thanx...

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 02:08:02 -0700
From: gray death legion
Subject: Re: C programing....



gray death legion wrote:

> hmmm... I have a question for all you c programers (if there anyone on
> chatter.)
>                 i have a 5v dc signal coming in on the parallel port (d1)...
> i need to know of a way to put the   high signal (1) on the trailing edge
> of the dc signal
> into a memory location X.. ( X being some address)
>
> eg       +5vdc   ___*
> 0                       __[           ]____   ( d1 doesn't go high until the * is hit )
>
> can anyone tell me how to do this in C     :)
>
> thanx...

  sorry the mail program i'm using moved the ___* over.
  The * should be on top of the ]___.
sorry dam netscape....

From: Dave James
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:40:01 +0000
Subject: MY turn with a joke :-)

Hey guys :)

Got this days ago, but my account was suspended so I couldn't
forward it... ooops ;)

*** Forwarded message, originally written by PATRICIA HODGE on 24-Apr-98 ***

---------------------------
February 16, 1998

Bill Gates the owner of microsoft wanted to
look good and impress everyone with his success.

  He decided to measure Microsoft accomplishments against General
Motors.   His comparison went like this: If automotive technology had
kept pace with computer technology over the past few decades, you would
now be driving a V-32 instead of a V8,and it would have a top speed of
10,000 miles/hour (16,000km/hr). Or you could have an economy car that
weighs 30 pounds (14 kilos) and gets a thousand miles to the gallon of
gas.   In either case, the sticker of the new car would be less than
$50.00.

  In response to all this goading, GM responded:   "Yes, but would you
really want to drive a car that crashes 4 times a day?"   GM continued
by stating that if Microsoft built cars:

1. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to
buy a new car.

2.   Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason,
and you'd have to restart it.   For some strange reason, you'd just
accept this and drive on.

3.   Occasionally, your car would stop and fail to restart, and
you'd have to reinstall the engine.   For some strange reason, you'd
just accept this too.

4.   You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless
you bought a Car95 or a CarNT.   But then you'd have to buy more
seats.

5.   Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was twice as fast,
twice as easy to drive--but would only run on 5 percent
of the roads.

6.   The Macintosh car owners would get expensive Microsoft upgrades
to their cars, which would make their cars run much slower.

7.   The oil, engine, gas and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a
single "general car defect" warning light.

8.   New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.

9.   The airbag system would say, "Are you sure?" before going off.

10.   If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what
happened

*** End of forwarded message ***

--

/Dave James - Lumpy/                         -                                   djames@thenet.co.uk
/The Lump On-Line/                             -                         www.thenet.co.uk/~djames
/Dark Lord Play By Email RPG/       -                 www.thenet.co.uk/~djames/rpg
/Teletubby Execution Chamber/       -   www.thenet.co.uk/~djames/tubby.html

I like work ... I can sit and watch it for hours.

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:06:51 -0000
Subject: Tuesdays Joke from Haighy


JUDGE RULES ON E-MAIL PRIVACY CASE


TULSA, OKLA -- The Oklahoma Supreme Court has ruled on a case that many
legal experts believe clearly delineates the e-mail privacy rights of
computer users in the workplace.   Judge Stan Musing declared that
employees have a right to expect that their employers will refrain from
monitoring e-mail messages transmitted on company systems.

The case went to court after programmer Augustus Lindsey's supervisor
monitored his e-mail and intercepted a message from Lindsey to a
colleague. The message read: "That little sex kitten has been driving
me wild. She's moaning and begging for it every minute. Last night I
was afraid someone would hear, and we'd be thrown out of the
building. But don't worry -- all is arranged. Wednesday she gets the
knife".

Lindsey's supervisor alerted authorities, suspecting that a crime was
in the making. Lindsey was arrested on the spot and spent an
uncomfortable night discussing the situation with the police. However,
he was released in the morning, just in time to get his female cat to
the vet for spaying. Lindsey sued his boss for invasion of privacy and
sought punitive damages as well.



... An expert is someone who knows no more than you do, but who has it better
organized and uses slides.

* Pick-Tag v2.5 *

From: ""
Date: 6 May 98 07:23:42 +0100
Subject: My turn with a joke :)

"What day was it on monday?"

"Dunno"

"Starwars Day"

"Why?"

"May the 4th be with you"

:)

--
Chris Korhonen, 2260 Designs

===============================================
# korhonen@zetnet.co.uk                                             #
# http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/korhonen/         #
===============================================
# WEBdesign     New Horizons       TEAM *AMIGA*       #
===============================================

From: Steve Haigh
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 18:34:37 -0000
Subject: Wednesdays Joke from Haighy

AOL Summit Meetings
----------------------------------------------------------------------

What if President Clinton held summit meetings on AOL?

PrezBubba:   {{{{{{{{{{{{{Boris}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
DRUNKBORIS:   {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Bill}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
PrezBubba:   What's up?
DRUNKBORIS:   nmh
DRUNKBORIS:   How's the knee?
PrezBubba:   They may have to amputate
PrezBubba:   <----------just kidding
DRUNKBORIS:   lol
PrezBubba:   BTW, are you going to join NATO or not?
DRUNKBORIS:   no
PrezBubba:   :(
PrezBubba:   age/sex check
DRUNKBORIS:   66/m
PrezBubba:   51/m
PrezBubba:   come on...join NATO
DRUNKBORIS:   I WILL NOT JOIN NATO!!!
PrezBubba:   k
PrezBubba:   No need to yell
PrezBubba:   What about arms reduction?
PrezBubba:   well
PrezBubba:   ?
PrezBubba:   you there?
DRUNKBORIS:   <----sorry
DRUNKBORIS:   I got an IM from some borscht belt babe
PrezBubba:   kewl
PrezBubba:   was she looking for some cyber?
DRUNKBORIS:   No...just complaining about the rampant unemployment!  
                        Asking ME to do something about it!
DRUNKBORIS:  
PrezBubba:   LMAO
PrezBubba:   So are you gonna lose the jukes?
DRUNKBORIS:   jukes?
PrezBubba:   oops...
PrezBubba:   nukes
DRUNKBORIS:   yeah, sure...why not.     :)
PrezBubba:   wtg, Boris!
DRUNKBORIS:   {{{{{{{Bill}}}}}}}
PrezBubba: <---feels very diplomatic right now
DRUNKBORIS:   o.k.   are we done cuz i wanna go to   The Best Lil
                        Chathouse now
PrezBubba:   guess so...I'm going to AskFemaleAnything
DRUNKBORIS:   you're sick!
PrezBubba:   ;)
DRUNKBORIS:   anyway,   cya
PrezBubba:   peace,   out

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:49:50 +0100
Subject: Confirmation

Hi :)

Well there we have it, official Amiga Inc confirmation of what the IRC
conference promised.   On the 15th of May at WOA we find out about the
future direction of Amiga. :)

Not only that, but talk of a "live demonstration".   In the IRC log Joe
Torre was asked to rate what we'll hear at WOA on a scale of

1."Powered by Amiga" Stickers.

to

9. new pc beating base architecture & incorporate pc 3rd party h/ware
     


He rated what we get *this* year as a 7 and next year a 10.

Should be an interesting show.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:52:38 +0100
Subject: A question

Hi :)

This is a topic which popped up on the ICOA list recently and I'm
curious how users reactions to it will compare with developers
reactions.

The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors as
a way of attracting some attention once more.

So how do people feel about that?

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:23:25 +0100
From: drifter@thenet.co.uk
Subject: Re: A question - Cor thats a tuff'un!

>Hi :)   Eoghan spluttered thus,
>
>This is a topic which popped   (did'nt hear a thing) !!!
>
>The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
>platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors as
>a way of attracting some attention once more.
>
>So how do people feel about that?
>
Snip......

Just pecking out a reply of sorts,
As long as it resembles and runs like a souped up miggy.Sounds great,,,,
but will it be enough to tempt all the software houses back
to re-visit their roots ! Most of'em owe a lot to the Amiga platform,
& will they support it,or just do their usual thing of play wait and see
for the next 12 months.

BTW,Will the OS be WorkBench 98 ?     :-}
Regards,Drifter.

Girl to Granma' - "Can you make a noise like a frog Nan"   ?
Granma - " I suppose so,why do you ask" ?
"Because daddy says,   "When you croak we're all going to DisneyWorld"

From: andre clinchant
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:46:10 -0000
Subject: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

I was lying in bed the ther night, giggling over the recent spat of anti-PC
jokes that have been posted recently.

One of the general themes with these jokes appears to be speed, especially
with regard to the WIMP system. One joke noted that Apple Macs were used in
heaven whilst PCs in hell. In fact even beyond the joke arena this idea
persists. There is an implication that W95, is like using a hammer to smash a
walnut   -a bloated system, not too well cobbled together. Another joke made
reference to PCs inexplicably crashing and needing frequent reboots.

The general impression is of a cumbersome system. This is an idea carried too
by the Amiga press amongst others.

The other day I had chance to lay my paws on a 200 MMX system. This is the
firt time I have actively testdriven such a fast system. Needless to say it
was fast and simple. (I am confident enough with W95 to navigate around it.)

This leads me to the conclusion that surely there is a point where raw speed,
which a 200Mhz has for most DTP etc processing, overcomes the handicap of a
poor WIMP system. Especially now that 400Mhz chips are out.

Someone else argued this recently on a list. i.e, when CPUs are up to 1Ghz and
an emulator software such as UAE flies along, oes it really matter what system
it is operating on.

As for PCs crashing. Yes, I have experienced these occurances. And this is a
common feature of the PC magazine letters pages (IRQ conflicts etc.) Yet two
thoughts come to mind - one, with such a large user base, the sheer number of
occurances makes this a larger problem than it may well be. Secondly, there is
not a day or so goes past with out the dreaded guru on my machine. YAM
frequently freezes my system. World News is giving me problems. PPaint has
crashed a few times when memory gets low Even final writer has kicked the
system over. Maybe, the Amiga community do not complain so much about this as
PC users. maybe, the level of experience PC users is such that they will
statistically generate more disfunction?

I ownder what W98 holds, (other than Mr Gate's further riches?) It promises to
smooth over the cracks of W95 and make the system go quicker. A 400Mhz CPU go
quicker under W98 than W95, is the difference really worth it.

Anyway, during my test run of the PC, I fired up pressworks, which is a DTP
package. I do not know what sort of level package it is. What I do know that
it took me seconds to make a line of coloured, drop shadowed text on a
squiggly line. Text manipulation is something the Amiga does not do too well
and is the bain of my life. (I do not know the capabilities of Pagestream but
doubt it matches the speed, simplicity, and versitility of pressworks, or
PaintStudio which is an excellent and simple graphics programme.

Now, I am not trying to shoot down the Amiga here. After all what machine am I
using now? I am trying to rationalise the basis of the anti-PC slurs, given
that whenever I have used PCs (at work mostly) I have fairly sucessful and
trouble-free sessions. Okay, multitasking is a problem for W95, but I never
hear complaints about W-NT - infact all I ever here of that product is rave
after rave.

I do not want to generate too much flaming. I just wanted to put a point of
view across.

Andre


--
                  --------oOOo---------------------------oOOo-----------
              /         andre@thenet.co.uk - Somerset, England.                 /
            /     Paediatric nurse. Babylon 5 fan. Amiga user             /
          /                                     IRC - KOSH_                                             /
        /                     "The Child   - first and always"                     /
        ------------------------------------------------------
                           

From: andre clinchant
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:50:33 -0000
Subject: Re: A question

On 06-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...


EI >The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
EI >platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors as
EI >a way of attracting some attention once more.


Given the post I have just put up about process speed etc the answer would be
YES.

Would it multitask? And what spped of developement would there be. Drifter
says would it be called Windows 98, more like Windows 05 me thinks.


--
                  --------oOOo---------------------------oOOo-----------
              /         andre@thenet.co.uk - Somerset, England.                 /
            /     Paediatric nurse. Babylon 5 fan. Amiga user             /
          /                                     IRC - KOSH_                                             /
        /                     "The Child   - first and always"                     /
        ------------------------------------------------------
                           

From: Bill Eaves
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 20:08:10 +0100
Subject: Re: Confirmation

Hi Eoghann

On 06-May-98, you wrote:

> Not only that, but talk of a "live demonstration".   In the IRC log Joe
> Torre was asked to rate what we'll hear at WOA on a scale of

> 1."Powered by Amiga" Stickers.

> to

> 9. new pc beating base architecture & incorporate pc 3rd party h/ware  


> He rated what we get *this* year as a 7 and next year a 10.

Im read that as well. Let's hope it is true and not just one more of these "we
will tell you later" jobs.

I can imagine it, all the publicity, the press there, the latest demo of the
new Amiga OS and then a big RED GURU coming up in the background, our worst
nightmare come true :-(



It *can* actually happen, just ask Bill Gates :-)





Regards


Bill.

From: Paul Ferguson
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 21:42:00 +0100
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi andre

On 06-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:

--Huge Snip--

> The other day I had chance to lay my paws on a 200 MMX system. This is the
> firt time I have actively testdriven such a fast system. Needless to say it
> was fast and simple. (I am confident enough with W95 to navigate around it.)

I have a P200MMX here and TBH it's not /that/ fast :(

--Small Snip--

> As for PCs crashing. Yes, I have experienced these occurances. And this is a
> common feature of the PC magazine letters pages (IRQ conflicts etc.) Yet two
> thoughts come to mind - one, with such a large user base, the sheer number
>of   occurances makes this a larger problem than it may well be.

Unfortunately there are soooo many ways to make a PC crash that IMHO it's
an almost impossible situation to rectify. In the 6 months or so I've had this
machine I've *had *to re-install Windows roughly 9 times so far. No matter how
careful I am there is always something that corrupts the registry (ARGGGHHH !)
causes Bills Big Blue screen of death to appear or just lock up the system.

I do not have any Virii on board. The s/ware is all legal and how on earth can
I find out whats causing it when for example, the machine has been sat doing
nothing, nada, nowt for say half an hour and when I press a key (any key;)
it locks completely. I'm thoroughly pissed off with it but having spent all
that money (and no doubt more on the near future) I'm sooo glad I didn't get
rid of my 1200 :)))

>Secondly, there is
> not a day or so goes past with out the dreaded guru on my machine. YAM
> frequently freezes my system. World News is giving me problems. PPaint has
> crashed a few times when memory gets low Even final writer has kicked the
> system over. Maybe, the Amiga community do not complain so much about this
>as   PC users. maybe, the level of experience PC users is such that they will
> statistically generate more disfunction?

Yeah, I have to agree that there are problematic programs on the Amiga too but
TBH I've found /reasons/ for crashes I've suffered unlike the PC which has our
Tech Support guys @ work completely foxed.

> I do not want to generate too much flaming. I just wanted to put a point of
> view across.

And I've said enough too, there *is* some superb s/ware for the PC but when it
runs so unreliably......

Cheers,
--
*Paul Ferguson* running Amiga and PC in total harmony...I wish ;)
*Sys Admin*: Oxbridge Quality Monitoring System for AMP of GB Ltd
If you want to see how *not* to produce cool web pages go to:
Http://www.jomarcom.u-net.com/
E-Mail:baldrick@jomarcom.u-net.com
                    :PaulFerg@bigfoot.com
                    :ICQ: 9425266

From: Dobbin
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 20:28:33 -0000
Subject: Re: A question

On 06-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:
>Hi :)

>This is a topic which popped up on the ICOA list recently and I'm
>curious how users reactions to it will compare with developers
>reactions.

>The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
>platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors as
>a way of attracting some attention once more.

>So how do people feel about that?

Gut reaction: "Oh christ no!"

After thinking about it: "Probably could be some help to the Amiga, so
why not? So long as developers are goaded towards CPU independancy.
Hell, why not a PPC based AmigaOS while we're at it... eh...eh?" ;)

Dobbin
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dobbin
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 22:54:11 -0000
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 06-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:
>I was lying in bed the ther night, giggling over the recent spat of anti-PC
>jokes that have been posted recently.

>The general impression is of a cumbersome system. This is an idea carried too
>by the Amiga press amongst others.
>
Also, recently, by some of the Windows-centric press.

>The other day I had chance to lay my paws on a 200 MMX system. This is the
>first time I have actively testdriven such a fast system. Needless to say it
>was fast and simple. (I am confident enough with W95 to navigate around it.)

>This leads me to the conclusion that surely there is a point where raw speed,
>which a 200Mhz has for most DTP etc processing, overcomes the handicap of a
>poor WIMP system. Especially now that 400Mhz chips are out.

"Test drive" is the important phrase there. I'm quite sure, having evaluated
hundreds of off-the-shelf Pentium-Win95 machines for work that your
"test drive" was swift, simple and fairly crash-free. That's just the thing
about Win95... so long as you already have a well configured system, and
you don't do anything to change that state (like installing something new)
then you can certainly expect the thing to bob along reliably at quite a
nifty rate of knots.

Once you get into a developers environment, a technicians environment or
even a more-than-basic users environment... things invariably start to go
awry.

Windows95 (and Win 3.X to a slightly lesser degree) can, and reguarly do,
crash in some of the most catastophic ways you can imagine when you
actually start to put the system through some of the sort of paces that
you meet in anything beyond the most everyday and repetetive sort of
functions.

>PC users. maybe, the level of experience PC users is such that they will
>statistically generate more disfunction?
>
I've been using Amiga's since my old KS1.2 A500 and started on PC's with
a brand-new-off-the-shelf ComPro 8086 and I believe you're mistaken. It's
Windows 3X/95 that got the PC this reputation for unreliablility, and not
unjustly.

>I ownder what W98 holds, (other than Mr Gate's further riches?) It promises to
>smooth over the cracks of W95 and make the system go quicker. A 400Mhz CPU >go quicker under W98 than W95, is the difference really worth it.
>
According to documentation by the official army of Win98 beta testers:

"It seems to crash a little less often and run's a bit faster... also the sound is nicer."

You /do/ have the mpeg video of the Win98 final beta crashing infront of
Gates and his PR guy at the show in Germany a couple weeks back? ;)

Another thing that Win98 delivers is, the so called, "Active Channels". These
are basically advertising slots on your desktop and within your software.
You know the kind of link-exchange spam you get on all the popular web-sites...
and you know that Win98's desktop is designed to appear like a web-browser?
Well, that's the sort of advertising you get rammed down your throat for
your hard earned (current pricing) US$ 109 upgrade to Win98.

>Anyway, during my test run of the PC, I fired up pressworks, which is a DTP
>package. I do not know what sort of level package it is. What I do know that
>it took me seconds to make a line of coloured, drop shadowed text on a
>squiggly line. Text manipulation is something the Amiga does not do too well
>
Text manipulation is something the software you have doesn't do too well.
If someone will write it, you will have it. CPU speed and reliability of the OS
is irrelevant to that.

>trouble-free sessions. Okay, multitasking is a problem for W95, but I never
>hear complaints about W-NT - infact all I ever here of that product is rave
>after rave.
>
NT is meant to be primarily a NOS, not your average user's standalone
desktop OS; at least for the time being anyway. At that, it lags 2-3 years
behind it's main competitor, NetWare. Aside from that, it's also bloated
and slow (considering the recommended specs). It /is/ admittedly less
'locked-down' against user configuration that 95 though; which is one of
95's greatest faults.

>I do not want to generate too much flaming. I just wanted to put a point of
>view across.
>
>Andre
>
Make's for a long thread, no doubt. :)

Dobbin
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- A1200T     PPC/166 040/25     34Mb RAM     2.1Gb HD     24x CD     NEC-3V 15" -
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Quark
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 00:50:38 +0500
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On the 07-May-98, the warm, pink, moist and fluffy Paul Ferguson purred...

PF>Unfortunately there are soooo many ways to make a PC crash that IMHO it's
PF>an almost impossible situation to rectify. In the 6 months or so I've had
this
PF>machine I've *had *to re-install Windows roughly 9 times so far. No matter
how
PF>careful I am there is always something that corrupts the registry (ARGGGHHH
!)
PF>causes Bills Big Blue screen of death to appear or just lock up the system.

Look Balders, the thing that slides out when you press the button isn't a
coffee cup holder, and Kracka Wheat is incompatible with the floppy drive.
And you don't have to get Everest in each time you reinstall windows.
These PC users...


--

Today's quiz...

What film has the line "Where'd you get him from, Psychos R Us?"?

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| quark@thenet.co.uk   "Sig file?   I don't need no stinkin' sig file." |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+

From: Darren Rozier
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 01:24:46 +0500
Subject: Re: A question

On 06-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:
>Hi :)

>The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
>platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors as
>a way of attracting some attention once more.

>So how do people feel about that?

>--

Hi,


I think it would have little more impact than the Amiga Forever/UAE has had
now, but with multiples of the financial expenditure.

I think it's a bad idea, but, if it has definite (ie: proven) advantages,
then I would think again.


regards,

Darren Rozier

Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 05:09:33 +0100
From: drifter@thenet.co.uk
Subject: Re: A question - 4 Andre's eyes :-)


>Would it multitask? And what spped of developement would there be. Drifter
>says would it be called Windows 98, more like Windows 05 me thinks.
>
>
>--
>                   --------oOOo---------------------------oOOo-----------
>               /         andre@thenet.co.uk - Somerset, England.                 /
>             /     Paediatric nurse. Babylon 5 fan. Amiga user             /
>           /                                     IRC - KOSH_                                             /
>         /                     "The Child   - first and always"                     /
>         ------------------------------------------------------
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hiya Andre,
Guess the babies cries are losing you sleep.When the monitor screen clears
you'll find it states WORKBENCH 98

But by then Gill Bates will be working on Mac OS 8.1 but he'll call it
windows99
Tarr'a 4 now,Drifter.

Girl to Granma' - "Can you make a noise like a frog Nan"   ?
Granma - " I suppose so,why do you ask" ?
"Because daddy says,   "When you croak we're all going to DisneyWorld"

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:46:20 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: A question - Cor thats a tuff'un!

Hi drifter@thenet.co.uk :)

On 06-May-98, drifter@thenet.co.uk wrote:
>> Hi :)   Eoghan spluttered thus,

>> The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
>> platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors
as
>> a way of attracting some attention once more.

> As long as it resembles and runs like a souped up miggy.Sounds
great,,,,
> but will it be enough to tempt all the software houses back
> to re-visit their roots ! Most of'em owe a lot to the Amiga
platform,
> & will they support it,or just do their usual thing of play wait and
see
> for the next 12 months.

Its always possible that companies would prefer to wait and see.
There's nothing new about that. :(

However, an important element of an x86 AmigaOS would be that it ran
software created for the standard AmigaOS.

If what was reported in last week's IRC conference is accurate there
are some big PC players who are less than happy with having to program
for the M$ OS...

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 15:19:49 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: A question

Hi andre clinchant :)

On 06-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:
> On 06-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...

>> The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
>> platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors
as
>> a way of attracting some attention once more.

> Given the post I have just put up about process speed etc the answer
would be
> YES.

> Would it multitask? And what spped of developement would there be.
Drifter
> says would it be called Windows 98, more like Windows 05 me thinks.

Well its an entirely hypothetical situation at this point since we
don't have a portable OS or a reference platform to work from.

But, it would multi-task, thats a feature of software not hardware.
Its estimated that properly done it would run at more than 2x the
speed of Win95 on an identical hardware setup.   Actual productivity
could be even further ahead.

The key problem to anyone undertaking such development is trying to
support the many PC graphics cards/sound cards etc.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
MODERATOR Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list
https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 15:29:53 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: A question

Hi Dobbin :)

On 06-May-98, Dobbin wrote:
> On 06-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

>> The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
>> platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors
as
>> a way of attracting some attention once more.

> Gut reaction: "Oh christ no!"

Which was pretty much the way a lot of developers reacted, before
calming down a little. ;)

> After thinking about it: "Probably could be some help to the Amiga,
so
> why not? So long as developers are goaded towards CPU independancy.
> Hell, why not a PPC based AmigaOS while we're at it... eh...eh?" ;)

Well the full proposal was for Amiga Inc to maintain a reference
hardware platform (i.e. not just a PC) andwent on to suggest that the
OS should not just be CPU independant but that AmigaOS programs should
run on all versions of the OS.

Something which isn't quite as impossible as it sounds, and wouldn't
use JAVA.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
AMIGA CHATTER: https://members.tripod.com/~amiga_chatter
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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:53:59 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Confirmation

Hi Bill Eaves :)

On 06-May-98, Bill Eaves wrote:
> On 06-May-98, you wrote:

>> He rated what we get *this* year as a 7 and next year a 10.

> Im read that as well. Let's hope it is true and not just one more of
these "we
> will tell you later" jobs.

I am pretty confident that we will find out next week.   I've been
exchanging private emails with fleecy (at somewhat irregular
intervals)
since January this year.   On a couple of occasions he's indicated that
he thought a final decision was near.

He has *never*, even privately, previously named a specific date like
this.

I can't emphasise this enough.   Each occasion where we were told that
we would hear at such and such a show, it was Petro who said that, not
Amiga Inc.

> I can imagine it, all the publicity, the press there, the latest
demo of the
> new Amiga OS and then a big RED GURU coming up in the background,
our worst
> nightmare come true :-(

Its this demonstration bit that puzzles me the most.   It seems
unlikely that they have even a beta of the new OS because things that
Olaf and Alain have said strongly indicate that actual programming has
not commenced yet.

So that would leave the hardware side of things.   And of course the
one employed R&D guy at AInc that we know of (Joe Torre), is a
hardware specialist.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 15:16:47 +0100
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi andre clinchant :)

On 06-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:

[Win95]

> The general impression is of a cumbersome system. This is an idea
carried too
> by the Amiga press amongst others.

It goes much deeper than that.   Some years back Bill Gates publicly
stated that the MS philosophy (I'm paraphrasing mind you) was that so
long as the put in the features people wanted to see, it didn't matter

how big or slow the software ran because people would simply upgrade
their hardware to run it.

They were right it seems...

Win95/NT is bigger than it needs to be.   And as a direct result of
that size it is slower and less stable than it should be.

> The other day I had chance to lay my paws on a 200 MMX system. This
is the
> firt time I have actively testdriven such a fast system. Needless to
say it
> was fast and simple. (I am confident enough with W95 to navigate
around it.)

Win95 is a fascinating contradiction.   MS spent thousands (maybe
millions) researching ergonomics etc. for Win95.   There are aspects of
its design and layout which work very well.

GUI purists may moan that the start button brings up a menu which
"breaks the rules", but they miss the fact that people aren't very
interested in rules of that sort anyway.

Then they stuck this professional GUI on top of an outdated, overgrown
and buggy OS.

> This leads me to the conclusion that surely there is a point where
raw speed,
> which a 200Mhz has for most DTP etc processing, overcomes the
handicap of a
> poor WIMP system. Especially now that 400Mhz chips are out.

Depends on the weaknesses of the GUI really.   It will solve a lot of
them.   If a system is really fast then its less obvious if the
multi-tasking is flawed.   its also less obvious that the buttons don't
respond instantly as they do in the AmigaOS (except MUI of course).

It won't solve the scrolling flaws, which are down to bad drivers I'm
told.   It won't remove the inherant instabilities.

Kind of a pricey way to solve software problems though...

> As for PCs crashing. Yes, I have experienced these occurances. And
this is a
> common feature of the PC magazine letters pages (IRQ conflicts etc.)
Yet two
> thoughts come to mind - one, with such a large user base, the sheer
number of
> occurances makes this a larger problem than it may well be.
Secondly, there is
> not a day or so goes past with out the dreaded guru on my machine.
YAM
> frequently freezes my system. World News is giving me problems.
PPaint has
> crashed a few times when memory gets low Even final writer has
kicked the
> system over. Maybe, the Amiga community do not complain so much
about this as
> PC users. maybe, the level of experience PC users is such that they
will
> statistically generate more disfunction?

AmigaOS is not a very stable OS. *NOT* because it has bugs in it, but
because it lacks features to prevent crashes.

Win95 on the other hand has such features and still crashes.   In its
case the bugs are actually present in the core OS software.

People do over-rate the stability of the AmigaOS.   Mine crashes on
average about once a day, but then I use it heavily.   But 75% of
problems on an AmigaOS are eaay to identify and isolate.   PC bugs are
often much harder to find.

> I ownder what W98 holds, (other than Mr Gate's further riches?) It
promises to
> smooth over the cracks of W95 and make the system go quicker. A
400Mhz CPU go
> quicker under W98 than W95, is the difference really worth it.

W98 is Win95 + IE4, and a few other bits and peices, even MS aren't
claiming its a great leap forward.

> Anyway, during my test run of the PC, I fired up pressworks, which
is a DTP
> package. I do not know what sort of level package it is. What I do
know that
> it took me seconds to make a line of coloured, drop shadowed text on
a
> squiggly line. Text manipulation is something the Amiga does not do
too well
> and is the bain of my life. (I do not know the capabilities of
Pagestream but
> doubt it matches the speed, simplicity, and versitility of
pressworks, or
> PaintStudio which is an excellent and simple graphics programme.

Well it can't match the speed, that is beyond the software's control.
I've been saying for some time now that Amiga software is lacking in
many areas.   Thats an inevitable result of a decreasing user base.
Its not an inherant strength or weakness in either machine.

> Now, I am not trying to shoot down the Amiga here. After all what
machine am I
> using now? I am trying to rationalise the basis of the anti-PC
slurs, given
> that whenever I have used PCs (at work mostly) I have fairly
sucessful and
> trouble-free sessions. Okay, multitasking is a problem for W95, but
I never
> hear complaints about W-NT - infact all I ever here of that product
is rave
> after rave.

If you don't hear complaints about Win NT you aren't talking to the
right people m8. :))

Wait till January 2000 and see what they're saying then.   MS have
finally admitted that Win NT is *not* Year 2000 compliant.   They
haven't admitted (but it is clearly the case) that its not as
scaleable as UNIX or as stable.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 15:26:50 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: A question

Hi Darren Rozier :)

On 06-May-98, Darren Rozier wrote:
> On 06-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

>> The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
>> platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors
as
>> a way of attracting some attention once more.

> I think it would have little more impact than the Amiga Forever/UAE
has had
> now, but with multiples of the financial expenditure.

It would be expensive certainly.   But I'm not sure exactly what impact
Amiga Forever is going to have, its only just got started really.   V2
is the first reasonably complete version thats getting proper
distribution.

A native OS would run something like 10 times faster than UAE.   Amiga
software is vastly cheaper than PC software.   Those are two reasonably
strong selling points.

> I think it's a bad idea, but, if it has definite (ie: proven)
advantages,
> then I would think again.

And how does one /prove/ the advantages of something that hasn't
happened?   Always a tricky one.

It might be worth noting that BeOS now has an intel version to go
alongside PPC.

Rhapsody is due to run on Intel as well if I remember correctly.

I can't help feeling that it would be a lot easier to persuade someone
to pay say £100 for AmigaOS to try it on their PC rather than paying
£1500 to buy an Amiga.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: andre clinchant
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:44:53 -0000
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...


EI >   Some years back Bill Gates publicly
EI >stated that the MS philosophy (I'm paraphrasing mind you) was that so
EI >long as the put in the features people wanted to see, it didn't matter

I agree. Lets face it a microwave - for example - sells better with a lot more
buttons on it. Why, when they all do the same. people like lots of features.
especially us men!

EI >Win95 is a fascinating contradiction.   MS spent thousands (maybe
EI >millions) researching ergonomics etc. for Win95.  

Why not when you have money to burn. Sadly the Amiga scene does not.

Andre

From: andre clinchant
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:30:07 -0000
Subject: Re: A question

On 06-May-98, Darren Rozier wrote this tempting message...



DR > I think it would have little more impact than the Amiga Forever/UAE has
had
DR >now, but with multiples of the financial expenditure.

What about some decent marketing then. (IMHO I wonder if a PPC Amiga will get
anywhere without marketing.) What about sticking it on a covermag   -PC Format?

PS Excuse all typos   - crying baby nearby!!!

Andre

--
                  --------oOOo---------------------------oOOo-----------
              /         andre@thenet.co.uk - Somerset, England.                 /
            /     Paediatric nurse. Babylon 5 fan. Amiga user             /
          /                                     IRC - KOSH_                                             /
        /                     "The Child   - first and always"                     /
        ------------------------------------------------------
                           

From: andre clinchant
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:41:20 -0000
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 06-May-98, Paul Ferguson wrote this tempting message...

PF >I have a P200MMX here and TBH it's not /that/ fast :(

Well, it sure seemed fast to me compared to my trusty 50Mhz Miggy. perhaps you
get used to it after time.

I have heard of people reinstalling windows countless times. I have also heard
of many people who have not needed to. MY machines at work have never had this
problem. Again I feel it may be statistically occuring due to the large   user
base. Though I do not disagree about the causes usually being untraceable.

I have reinstalled worknbench about 3 times over 5 years BTW.

Andre

--
                  --------oOOo---------------------------oOOo-----------
              /         andre@thenet.co.uk - Somerset, England.                 /
            /     Paediatric nurse. Babylon 5 fan. Amiga user             /
          /                                     IRC - KOSH_                                             /
        /                     "The Child   - first and always"                     /
        ------------------------------------------------------
                           

From: andre clinchant
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:48:12 -0000
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...

EI >It won't solve the scrolling flaws, which are down to bad drivers I'm
EI >told.   It won't remove the inherant instabilities.

I am not aware of these flaws but then I am not a big PC user. What little use
I do have does not reveal these flaws. Do you think people tolerate them
because they know no difference. Do people even notice them unless they are
hardened computer hobbyists.

Come to think of it are Amiga users hobbyists and PC users consumers. That in
itself would cause a distinct difference of outlook on what the product should
feel like and do.

Andre

From: andre clinchant
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:02:04 -0000
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 06-May-98, Dobbin wrote this tempting message...


D >"Test drive" is the important phrase there.

D >Once you get into a developers environment, a technicians environment or
D >even a more-than-basic users environment... things invariably start to go
D >awry.

Look guys, I am not saying that W95 does not have inherrant flaws. Despite my
'test drive' I have used PCs on mnay other regular occasions. In fact my memoy
and usage goes back to PC_ATs when I did company accounts and such proggies as
symphony. Yes, W95 causes perhaps more problems than it is worth... sometimes.

D >Windows95 (and Win 3.X to a slightly lesser degree) can, and reguarly do,
D >crash in some of the most catastophic ways you can imagine when you
D >actually start to put the system through some of the sort of paces that
D >you meet in anything beyond the most everyday and repetetive sort of
D >functions.

I have installed software on PCs with bad results too. I have been on
telephone lines to tech desks.

But a lot of pople do not push their PCs beyond the repetitive.


D >I've been using Amiga's since my old KS1.2 A500 and started on PC's with
D >a brand-new-off-the-shelf ComPro 8086 and I believe you're mistaken. It's
D >Windows 3X/95 that got the PC this reputation for unreliablility, and not
D >unjustly.

Half and Half here. Yes, W95 has added to this reputation. But I still insist
that there is a statistical blurring invovled to. A happy user tends to be a
quiet user. An unhappy user tends to be loud. Hence the pages of "Backchat" or
"Workbench" or any similar PC Press letter page. Hence, given the far larger
user base of PC uers there are more grumbling voices.


D >Text manipulation is something the software you have doesn't do too well.
D >If someone will write it, you will have it. CPU speed and reliability of
the
D >OS
D >is irrelevant to that.

I cannot see text manipulation on a fairly standard Miggy (even my 030) being
up to the quality and speed of a PC. CPU speed IS relevent. Of course I might
be proved otherwise!!!

D >Make's for a long thread, no doubt. :)

That was the secret idea. (In fact I am an Acorn user!!!)
--
                  --------oOOo---------------------------oOOo-----------
              /         andre@thenet.co.uk - Somerset, England.                 /
            /     Paediatric nurse. Babylon 5 fan. Amiga user             /
          /                                     IRC - KOSH_                                             /
        /                     "The Child   - first and always"                     /
        ------------------------------------------------------
                           

From: Craig Arbuthnott
Subject: RE: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:30:21 +0100

Aha!

You obviously haven't tried to run games under 95....

Craig Arbuthnott
DMA Design Ltd
Craig@dma-design.com
http://www.dma-design.com


On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...

EI >It won't solve the scrolling flaws, which are down to bad drivers I'm
EI >told.   It won't remove the inherant instabilities.

From: Paul Ferguson
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:47:21 +0100
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi Quark

On 06-May-98, Quark wrote:

> Look Balders, the thing that slides out when you press the button isn't a
> coffee cup holder

Ahem ! I haven't actually used the CD tray for that...someone told me it was
for Home Circumcisions.....that is right isn't it ?

Doh ! I feel so stupid now !

Cheers,
--
*Paul Ferguson* running Amiga and PC in total harmony...I wish ;)
*Sys Admin*: Oxbridge Quality Monitoring System for AMP of GB Ltd
If you want to see how *not* to produce cool web pages go to:
Http://www.jomarcom.u-net.com/
E-Mail:baldrick@jomarcom.u-net.com
                    :PaulFerg@bigfoot.com
                    :ICQ: 9425266

From: Paul Ferguson
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:59:19 +0100
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi Andre,

On 07-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:

> Well, it sure seemed fast to me compared to my trusty 50Mhz Miggy. perhaps
you
> get used to it after time.

I have to admit that at first it seemed quite fast....but now booting takes
forever and the time it takes for the system to 'wake up' after a period on
inactivity sux compared to the Amiga.

> I have heard of people reinstalling windows countless times. I have also
heard
> of many people who have not needed to. MY machines at work have never had
this
> problem. Again I feel it may be statistically occuring due to the large
user
> base. Though I do not disagree about the causes usually being untraceable.

When your Registry gets trashed by the big new shiny bit of s/ware from the
biggest s/ware company in the universe it kinda makes you think. (for those
who didn't quite get that I'm referring to IE4 and Microsoft ;)

Agreed, my machine at work does not have these tendencies but then again my
Amiga doesn't either and I ask some pretty wierd things of that from time to
time. I don't think that I run anything 'out of the ordinary' on the PC (apart
from emulators I s'pose) but as I said it's crashed whilst doing basically
bugger all...not an emulator in sight and down it goes :((

> I have reinstalled worknbench about 3 times over 5 years BTW.

Hmm I think I've had to *re*install it about that many times in ermmmm
the 10 years or so that I've been using Amigas....maybe I've been lucky ?

/me touches wood ;)

Cheers,
--
*Paul Ferguson* running Amiga and PC in total harmony...I wish ;)
*Sys Admin*: Oxbridge Quality Monitoring System for AMP of GB Ltd
If you want to see how *not* to produce cool web pages go to:
Http://www.jomarcom.u-net.com/
E-Mail:baldrick@jomarcom.u-net.com
                    :PaulFerg@bigfoot.com
                    :ICQ: 9425266

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:51:27 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi andre clinchant :)

On 07-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:
> On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...

>> Win95 is a fascinating contradiction.   MS spent thousands (maybe
>> millions) researching ergonomics etc. for Win95.  

> Why not when you have money to burn. Sadly the Amiga scene does not.


Because they did literally burn it.   By attaching their GUI to a
deeply flawed OS they effectively wasted a large part of their
research.

The Win95 GUI takes many of the best elements from System 7.X and
NextStep, but the result is only marginarlly superior to 7.x and
inferior to NextStep.

They incorporated all the graphical elements well, but completely
failed to grasp the importance of responsiveness and user feedback

Like I said a strange contradiction.   Half of it empahsises easy for
the user and the other half doesn't care at all.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:45:18 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi andre clinchant :)

On 07-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:
> On 06-May-98, Paul Ferguson wrote this tempting message...

>> I have a P200MMX here and TBH it's not /that/ fast :(

> Well, it sure seemed fast to me compared to my trusty 50Mhz Miggy.
perhaps you
> get used to it after time.

You get used to these things *very* quickly.   When I was used to tape
loading, floppies seemed fast, then I got used to floppies and
suddenly they were slow. ;)

> I have heard of people reinstalling windows countless times. I have
also heard
> of many people who have not needed to. MY machines at work have
never had this
> problem. Again I feel it may be statistically occuring due to the
large   user
> base. Though I do not disagree about the causes usually being
untraceable.

If your work machines have suffered no problems you are exceptionally
lucky.   The simple act of upgrading from one version of windows to
another can cause problems that last for months.

It isn't a case of hundreds of people merely reporting the same
problems, but hundreds of people reporting *different* problems.

> I have reinstalled worknbench about 3 times over 5 years

I've reinstalled Windows more than that in one day, although never on
a machine which I set up from scratch.

A large part of the problem relates to misconfigured machines.
Windows seems almost unable to deal with things if they aren't the way
it expects to find them.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:54:49 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi andre clinchant :)

On 07-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:
> On 06-May-98, Dobbin wrote this tempting message...

>> Windows95 (and Win 3.X to a slightly lesser degree) can, and
reguarly do,
>> crash in some of the most catastophic ways you can imagine when you
>> actually start to put the system through some of the sort of paces
that
>> you meet in anything beyond the most everyday and repetetive sort
of
>> functions.

> I have installed software on PCs with bad results too. I have been
on
> telephone lines to tech desks.

> But a lot of pople do not push their PCs beyond the repetitive.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.   A large % of office PCs are networked
one way or another.   That causes endless headaches for the IT
departments.

At home, people are trying to run ever more powerful games and that
can cause an equal amount of headaches.   If you remember the fun we
used to have with Non-OS games, thats the sort of fun that PC users
still have.

> Half and Half here. Yes, W95 has added to this reputation. But I
still insist
> that there is a statistical blurring invovled to. A happy user tends
to be a
> quiet user. An unhappy user tends to be loud. Hence the pages of
"Backchat" or
> "Workbench" or any similar PC Press letter page. Hence, given the
far larger
> user base of PC uers there are more grumbling voices.

It seems to me your argument is flawed.   Since magazines tend to print
a "representative sample" on letters pages rather than all the
negative letters.

Also the vast majority of PCs are in office environments where
problems are dealt with by the IT department so those complaints are
never heard in magazines at all.



---

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:55:07 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi andre clinchant :)

On 07-May-98, andre clinchant wrote:
> On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...

>> It won't solve the scrolling flaws, which are down to bad drivers
I'm
>> told.   It won't remove the inherant instabilities.

> I am not aware of these flaws but then I am not a big PC user. What
little use
> I do have does not reveal these flaws. Do you think people tolerate
them
> because they know no difference. Do people even notice them unless
they are
> hardened computer hobbyists.

You can't really miss them.   The only programs on PCs that have smooth
scrolling are programs   which bypass the graphics drivers and control
the cards directly.

To see a simple example, just watch any Win3.1 screensaver.   The
screen will jerk terribly.   Watch Win95 and things will be smoother,
but every now and then it will jerk.

People tolerate such things because they don't know any better.   They
are told that computers are flawed and thats what they see.   Who are
they to argue?   If everyone told you that the earth was flat, and you
never saw any evidence otherwise, wouldn't you believe it?

> Come to think of it are Amiga users hobbyists and PC users
consumers. That in
> itself would cause a distinct difference of outlook on what the
product should
> feel like and do.

Yes they are consumers, to our hobbyists, but that would suggest that
they are making less of a fuss about PCs than they should be.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

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From: Paul Ferguson
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:24:31 +0100
Subject: Re: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi Eoghann

On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote:

> I wouldn't be so sure of that.   A large % of office PCs are networked
> one way or another.   That causes endless headaches for the IT
> departments.

Having just started getting 'into' IT I have to agree here....due to a change
in my job I'm now looking after a quite complex machine monitoring system
which consists of (briefly) 7 slave pc's and 1 master which /should /write to
a server but seems to have a life of it's own ;)   I've had loads of problems
with all these machines and so spend a lot of time with our PC and
Network support guys.

The majority of calls they get are usually down to users not knowing the
basics....( in a company like ours I find that unforgiveable BTW) In some
cases we have found faults that the users didn't even know about or
rather they accepted them as "It's a computer and computers do that,
don't they?"

> At home, people are trying to run ever more powerful games and that
> can cause an equal amount of headaches.   If you remember the fun we
> used to have with Non-OS games, thats the sort of fun that PC users
> still have.

LOL...and I'd count myself amongst those who are pushing their PC's to the
limit...Quake II really rocks :))))
And yes there are games that cause all sorts of probs, some of the older DOS
based ones that will run in 95 are a real pain at times and the config options
can be and are quite bewlidering at times. With my Amiga I bung in the disk or
click on the icon and I play. No Sound card setup, no special video drivers
needed...just me and my 1200 having fun :))  

> Also the vast majority of PCs are in office environments where
> problems are dealt with by the IT department so those complaints are
> never heard in magazines at all.

True 'nuf...see above :)

Cheers,

PS type thingy: Is the CU list down again ?
--
*Paul Ferguson* running Amiga and PC in total harmony...I wish ;)
*Sys Admin*: Oxbridge Quality Monitoring System for AMP of GB Ltd
If you want to see how *not* to produce cool web pages go to:
Http://www.jomarcom.u-net.com/
E-Mail:baldrick@jomarcom.u-net.com
                    :PaulFerg@bigfoot.com
                    :ICQ: 9425266

From: Mark Sayers
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:48:20 +0100
Subject: Re: Confirmation

Hello Eoghann

Eoghann Irving brought forth the following


EI Well there we have it, official Amiga Inc confirmation of what the
IRC
EI conference promised.   On the 15th of May at WOA we find out about
the
EI future direction of Amiga. :)

So the big announcement will be on the Friday prior to the public show
on Sat 16th ?

That will hopefully give us all something to talk about at the bar
other than the big screen match.

Regards       Mark

From: Bill Eaves
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:42:42 +0100
Subject: Re[3]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi Eoghann

On 07-May-98, you wrote:


> You can't really miss them.   The only programs on PCs that have smooth
> scrolling are programs   which bypass the graphics drivers and control
> the cards directly.

Scolling, yes scrolling. That is the one thing that really gets on my t*ts
when using a PC at work.

We get emails filled in by a form and there is lot of garbage to cut out
before answering,the PC guys do not bother with netiquette and leave it in,
but as an Amiga user I know you shout cut out the garbage.

Any way put the cursor at the top of the text block, scroll down and the thing
jumps way past where you want to stop and then again in reverse. The lack of
control is unbelievable.

Thing is PC users seem to be used to it and just accept this is the way things
are done :-(

Regards


Bill.

From: Bill Eaves
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:36:19 +0100
Subject: Re[3]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

Hi Eoghann


I have to use PCs every day and provide tech support for users of the damned
things.

On 07-May-98, you wrote:


> They incorporated all the graphical elements well, but completely
> failed to grasp the importance of responsiveness and user feedback


I know exactly what you mean. W95 looks very pretty but is really slow to
respond. Click a button and then wait ages even for confirmation you have
actually clicked it.


OK The PCs at work only have 16Mb Ram so VM slows things to unbearable speeds.
I have 38MB on my miggy but used to only have 10Mb with a 68030, that was far
more responsive than the 16Mb Pentium PCs.

The things we use at work are not exactly state of the art, they were bought
(only) two years ago, but boy are they slow to do the simplest of things, and
when they frequently crash take ages to reboot.

The Win95 handling of floppies is absolutely abismal, one has an LS120
assigned
to drive E: rather than A: (nice names they have). If you try to acces drive
A: does the OS come back and tell you there is no drive A: on the system, no
it just locks up the entire machine and you have to reboot, yawn - go make a
cup of coffeee. Another one uses drive A: but often as soon as you try to
either write or read from it, guess what it locks up. Sometimes it works, most
of the time it doesn't.

I would not mind so much but this is supposeed to be the *professional*
operating system that is industry standard, yet it is far less stable than the
"toy" OS I have on my 060 "Games Machine" at home.



Regards


Bill.

From: Eoghann Irving
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:50:32 +0100
Subject: Re[2]: Confirmation

Hi Mark :)

On 07-May-98, Mark Sayers wrote:

> So the big announcement will be on the Friday prior to the public
show
> on Sat 16th ?

Yup, there will be a public press conference the evening before the
show (Friday) and presumably thats when the announcement will occur.
There is also supposed to be a closed doors developers meeting as
well.

I haven't heard a definate location for any IRC conferences yet
though.

--

Have fun,

Eoghann

SOLAR FLARE: http://www.thenet.co.uk/~eoghann/
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https://members.tripod.com/~ego2/

From: "Paul Webb"
Date: 7 May 98 19:30:38 +0100
Subject: Re: A question

In reply to what Eoghann Irving said about "A question"...

> This is a topic which popped up on the ICOA list recently and I'm
> curious how users reactions to it will compare with developers
> reactions.
>
> The proposal was put that (while maintaining a reference hardware
> platform) a version of AmigaOS be ported to run on Intel processors as
> a way of attracting some attention once more.
>
> So how do people feel about that?

I think that it's a great idea, and a very grown up thing for an
operating system to do. I don't know how many ppl out there know of
the Be OS, from the BeBox machine, but that has been ported to Intel
and from what I hear it works very well. If Intel is on that cards why
not Alpha (already underway from Hi-Q IIRC) and the next gen Intel
chip. We might even see Gateway2000 PCs shipping with Workbench
pre-installed.

What was the verdict from the ICOA BTW?


--

Paul Webb                                                                     Amiga 1200, 170Mb HD
orion@thenet.co.uk                                                 030/50MHz, V.34 28.8k
www.thenet.co.uk/~orion/                                   16Mb Fast, CD-Rom x 16

Top o Nerae! Gunbuster!                                                         Team *AMIGA*

From: andre clinchant
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:01:55 -0000
Subject: NextStep - was Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...


EI >The Win95 GUI takes many of the best elements from System 7.X and
EI >NextStep.

What is NextStep out of interest?

Andre

From: andre clinchant
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:04:16 -0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...


EI >Yes they are consumers, to our hobbyists, but that would suggest that
EI >they are making less of a fuss about PCs than they should be.

Perhaps they make a fuss but corporate Microsoft do not need to listen too
hard. Or could we really historic and blame the basic architecture?

Andre

From: andre clinchant
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:00:29 -0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...


EI >It isn't a case of hundreds of people merely reporting the same
EI >problems, but hundreds of people reporting *different* problems.

Whilst I do not disagree with any of the arguements I still insist that there
is a statisical element to this, that provides an extent of blurring to the
issue. Given the far larger software base surely, statisically, there will be
more problems, espeically on top of a poor OS etc.

Andre

From: andre clinchant
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:08:38 -0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Speed overrules shabby system -or does it?

On 07-May-98, Eoghann Irving wrote this tempting message...


EI >> But I
EI >still insist
EI >> that there is a statistical blurring invovled to. A happy user tends
EI >to be a
EI >> quiet user. An unhappy user tends to be loud. Hence the pages of
EI >"Backchat" or
EI >> "Workbench" or any similar PC Press letter page. Hence, given the
EI >far larger
EI >> user base of PC uers there are more grumbling voices.

EI >It seems to me your argument is flawed.   Since magazines tend to print
EI >a "representative sample" on letters pages rather than all the
EI >negative letters.

'fraid I am not convinced about your "representative sample." I used to work
in the market research field and happy users are quiet users. I read a lot of
the popular end of the PC press and it does not look very represenative. I
will remain with my arguement of A DEGREE of statistical blurring.

Andre