PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS JUST SOME OF MY ADDITIONAL NOTES ON TRINITY. THINGS THAT WERE PERSONALALY INTERESTING TO ME AND ON MY OWN BEYOND THE CONSIDERATION OF THE POPULAR PROOF TEXTS. THESE COMMON, POPULAR, OFT-HEARD PROOF TEXTS ARE ALREADY CONSIDERED IN THE BROCHURE "SHOULD YOU BELIEVE THE TRINITY" PUBLISHED BY THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY. THE COMPLETE TEXT OF IT IS AVAILABLE ONLINE AT www.watchtower.org. More of my personal notes related to this topic are on the other page of my notes about Jehovah's Witnesses Beliefs on many topics. Jesus Christ and God's Name are the first 2 topics considered and are already up and running. This is some of my own notes on the trinity teaching. Additional reasons why I could not believe in it beyond the ones you may have normally read in our literature. To learn more about the teaching, why it is false, its history, etc., I will put a link to the ONLY official site of the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society. Once there click on the choice "Beliefs and Activities". Then scroll down to the brochure "Should You Believe in the Trinity?" These are personal additional notes and include quite a bit of Greek and Hebrew language research in the Bible versions, dictionary and interlinears that I linked to my main page. I included these to make your search for Bible truth and investigation into Christianity as easy as I could.
THE LINKS TO THOSE OTHER BIBLE VERSIONS AND REFERENCES ARE NOT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!!! They are some of those mainline references I mentioned as being where we got our teachings. They are online at secular and religious universities around the country and the world. These are the references preachers have at seminary schools when they are supposed to be learning how to preach the truth, the facts, to their flocks. It is often hard, if not impossible, for ordinary church members to get hold of them.
********************************************************************************** Book form copies of these online references are available from Christian Book Distributor's (CBD), Box 3687, Peabody, MA 01961-3687, USA. They are a "religious" source so their stuff costs quite a bit. Most of these will cost around $30 not counting postage and handling (or any tax). They may be more expensive. (Jehovah's Witness references, Bibles, etc are FREE.) **********************************************************************************
If and when I am good enough at html programming, I will provide a link to the very page needed on those other sites so you can click to see the reference immediately. In the meantime, sorry for the inconvenience!
****************SOME ADDITIONAL NOTES (Feb. 2001)*********************
Is The Almighty God Identical Twins or Triplets?
Just what are twins and triplets? I'm sure no one will have to go to an encyclopedia to answer that question.
Twins are 2 children born at the same time and of the same parents while triplets are 3 children born at the same time to the same parents. They may be all the same gender or both.
What are the characteristics of twins and triplets that might make them pertinent to our discussion of the Almighty God?
For one thing, twins or triplets being born at the same time are equal in age. Neither has years of existence prior to the other sibling(s). They are "equal in eternity" or how long they have existed. They are also equal in power, ability, intelligence and wisdom at birth. Assuming they spend their lives being taught identically the same information, by the same teacher and have no contact with others, they would continue to be identical in mind and knowledge.
Many churches believe that this is the relationship between Jesus and the Almighty God (binity) while most believe that the triplet relationship is what is between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. But is this really what the Scriptures teach?
Naturally, if the 2 or 3 were of the same age we would expect to find their relationship defined by the above. However, the Bible does not give Jesus and God the relationship of Identical Twin Brothers. Instead, one is the Father and the other is his Son. A life giver and one who receives life. The one comes into existence because the other created him by some means, either by a divine act of will (creation) or by human procreation. One is greater in knowledge and must teach the other, raise him, tell him what to do. One has to learn, to be taught.
Before the Almighty began creating life on earth, he first filled his own home with sons who would help him in his tasks and be his family.
Job 1:6, 7 and 2:1, 2 King James "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest though? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and from in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." AGAIN there was a day when the sons of God came to present themsleves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and from in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
These sons of God were present and watching while the earth and the material universe was being created. They are called "morning stars" or stars. Job 38:4, 7 King James Where was thou (Job or any human) when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Revelation 22:16 King James I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Revelation 12:3, 4, 9 King James And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered for to devour her child as soon as it was born. (9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
This evil morning star, Satan, is busily deceiving the whole earth. God's Son is one of his favorite things to deceive about. Not only does Satan have people believing that there is only 1 "son of God" (the Word or Jesus, the one he sent down from heaven to teach about his Father and to offer himself as a ransom), but he has people believing that this son is not a son at all (so there are really no son(s) of God period). Instead, they want us to believe that God sent his twin or triplet brother (who was really not a twin, triplet or brother, but himself) to earth.
The Bible tells us at Job 12:11 (NWT) "Does not the ear itself test out words As the palate tastes food?" We must not just accept whatever we are told, we must learn or account for ourselves and prove all things to be true. Romans 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 5:21, 1 John 4:1, John 17:17; 8:32. We must be willing to stand up for things no matter what others might try to say to us, how they might ridicule, how they might threaten or laugh. Be wise so that you, too, may believe in God's Son and gain eternal life by means of that one.
1 John 5:10-12 King James "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." Compare Proverbs 8:30-36.
1 John 2:23 KJV Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Nisan 14 on the Jewish calendar is the date of Jesus' death. Matthew 20:28, Luke 22:19, 20, 1 Cor. 5:7, 8. On our calendar that date is Sunday, April 8 this year (2001). Around the earth, this observance will be held along with special talks and songs. Anyone wishing to be present is welcome.
For those of you who haven't really researched the trinity or just never thought to yourself about what this really means, I'll start with a brief explanation of the claims of trinity; what it teaches. To look this up in your own Bible dictionaries more deeply, you may have to outfox the guys who wrote them. The entry on Trinity itself is often so vague that you won't think it means what I'm telling you. There are other entries that you can check for. These are: incarnation--explains the doctrine of how Almighty God put himself into a human body, etc. divinity or deity of Christ (or Jesus)--explains how Jesus is not just "God's Son" but is a deity (deos is Latin for God). Jesus Christ--somewhere in this they usually explain that he's really the Almighty God. Holy Spirit(Ghost)--this entry usually explains that it is the Almighty God, too, the third of 3 Gods that are really 1 God.
Some dictionaries are so determined to hide this that you will not find a clear explanation of it in any of those entries. In that case, search for the phrases "God the Son", "God the Holy Spirit", "God in 3 persons" (means God is 3 persons not just 1), "God in the flesh", etc.
Basically, trinity claims that there are 3 Gods. That the Almighty did not really have a Son, nor send that Son to earth to die for sins. Rather, he came to earth personally and offered himself.
People, especially the preachers or die hard members, like to claim that Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus was only a good man or only a perfect human. That is a false claim. They simply do not want any one to know what we really believe (and usually, they don't want to deal with or explain the trinity so you know what THEY really believe). While the people in favor of trinity are trying to convince you that Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus was God's Son who was with him up in heaven and sent to earth, they are busy trying to convince us that Jesus is NOT God's Son (they claim John 3:16, 17:3, 1 John 5:5, 8-13 and all those other scriptures are merely "symbolic" and that they "don't really mean that". Most of them further claim that God's Son, even his firstborn, only begotten, perfect heavenly Son "would not be good enough", that only The Almighty himself would be good enough! So basically they deny that Jesus is really the Son of God and try to convert us to that! Which basically means they are "antichrist"! So generally they have 2 sets of literature agaist JWs. One for their church members which claims we don't believe in God's Son and one for us which claims we shouldn't believe God really had a Son!
To be fair, a lot of the clergy don't know the facts about JWs or know this "double standard", but some do. They, like most people, are simply repeating gossip, rumors or anti-JW publications they have heard or read.
Jehovah's Witnesses NEVER believed anything different about Jesus than what we do now. I know for a fact as I have some publications that date back to 1904. (Reprints of books that came out in late 1800s).
There are other reasons why this trinity doctrine could not be true other than it denies utterly the existance of any Son begotten by the Almighty.
One is that Jesus did not have to replace or substitute for any high ranking person. God didn't sin for Jesus to have to replace him! Adam, a perfect human son of God, was the sinner who needed an equivalent replacement. Romans 5:12, Luke 3:38, 1 Corinthians 15: 22, 45. So Jesus is called the last Adam.
There was no human son of God who could replace Adam. All were descended from him and all sinful. So any of the sons of God up in heaven who were still perfect could come to earth and be a perfect sinless human Son of God. (See article on Satan and Demons before this link).
Additionally, there is another BIG reason. Becoming human, or trying to, is something the Almighty would NOT do because he is a God of love (1 John 4:8) and remembers we are dust. His attempting to put himself in a fleshly body, or even coming near us, would result in terrible things for us. Read on to the next heading!
Many people like to think that God can go anything. A popular Bible verse that says all things are possible with God is misused to make it seem that it would be simple for God to become a fleshly human and put himself into the womb of a Jewish virgin (Mary) and then into the body of a baby/man to be a real fleshly human.
The Bible says there are some things that are impossible for God to do. For one thing, it says "it was impossible for God to lie.." Hebrews 6:18. God cannot lie, be wicked, sin, etc. Hence, he is incorruptible (cannot become corrupt or sinful as a human politician is corrupt. Ie: disobeys laws.) as well as immortal.
No doubt all of you have had the opportunity to view a total or partial eclipse in your lifetime. Doctors and scientists warn you not to look directly at the sun then or at any other time. This is because the power, energy from the sun could burn your retinas and even cause permanent blindness. But the energy from God's body is even greater. No man can even see God and live. Exodus 33:20. Satan and his demons can see God and even enter his heavenly court because they possess the same form and substance as the Almighty being made of spirit instead of flesh. Job 1:6,7, 2:1, 2. Satan spent some 1,500 years trying to turn the faithful angels and tempt them. Then, the evil demons aided him in tempting the angels in heaven.
Because no human could ever see God, even with Christ's ransom sacrifice applied to them, the ones who go to heaven to rule with Christ must give up their flesh and blood existence and become sharers of the divine nature. 1 Corinthians 15:50-52, Luke 24:39, 2 Peter 1:4. Being "partakers of the divine nature" means that they have the same nature, same form or substance, are made out of the same stuff as the Almighty. They must give up marriage and many other things for the privilege of heavenly life. Matthew 22:29, 30.
What would happen to a Jewish virgin? to a fleshly baby or grownup man? to our entire planet? if the sun up in our sky were even to come closer to our earth? Well, naturally, all life on earth would be destroyed! And it would not help matters any if the sun was divided up into thirds and only one third of its mass and energy came closer to us. Yet, the trinitarian faiths claim that this is what happened with Jesus. That God is 3 people and one of them came to earth and became human! If the energy and power of 1/3 of the sun in our sky would be more than enough to destroy us all, how much more so would we be destroyed if 1/3 of God's existence/energy/mass became flesh. And if that is only "symbolic" and God did not really become human, then the teaching that Jesus is God in the flesh is really false!
This section is about original language renderings and popular Bible versions.
The biggest "proof text" of the trinity doctrine is probably John 1:1 in the KJV which reads "IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." This verse is believed to mean that Jesus was God Almighty (never mind that the KJV also calls Moses God with a capital G and no one tries to prove his is the Almighty).
Additionally, informants trying to prove the trinity doctrine neglect crucial Greek word/language facts. To check this for yourself, go into the online Bible references that include Textus Recepticus, the Greek interlinear that is supposed to "prove" KJV renderings. Check John 1:1, 2 Cor. 4:4 and Philip 3:19 for yourself!
At John 1:1, you can see that DIFFERENT words are used for God in the case of Jesus and the one he was with. theos (written with a small theta--the Greek th) is the word used for Jesus (also for Satan at 2 Corinthians 4:4 and the belly at Philippians 3:19). That is different from the Greek form of God that is used for Jesus father (ton theon- Jesus' Father not only gets "the" in front of God, but the vowels are pronounced differenly with opposite slanted accent marks...and they end in different letters!) Ho theon is never used of Jesus and theos ( (the adjective form of god used for Jesus, Satan, belly is never used of the Holy Ghost or Spirit). At best, only binity could be proved with this text!
In the Hebrew, elohim is similar being used not only for the Almighty and his son (Isaiah 9:6, 7), but also for Moses (Exod. 4:16, 7:1), a pagan singular god, Dagon, Judges 16:23.
Clergy and trinitarians simply manipulate the facts. Indeed, they don't lie when they say Jesus is called theos. But they do "lie" by with holding the fact that there is another Greek word used only for the Almighty (ho theon) and that one is never used for his Son.
Even though TR doesn't translate John 1:1 correctly underneath the Greek, you can still see for yourself that different words are used. The Roman Catholic Greek Interlinear (Emphatic Diaglott) does translate it correctly underneath the Greek, but incorrectly off to the side.
OTHER BIBLE VERSION INFORMATION TO CHECK ON THE TRINITY DOCTRINE
Many Bible versions correct some of the trinity proof texts that have been manipulated in the KJV or Douay old English Catholic. New American Bible Catholic, JB, and most Protestant and Catholic modern English Bibles correctly render 1 Timothy 3:16 and 1 John 5:7. Most also change the red lettering of Revelation 1:8 which has the Almighty talking. It is put in red to make it seem like it was Christ talking rather than his Father. The phrase "nor the Son" was put back in Matthew 24:36 as it showed Jesus didn't know all his Father did so they weren't "equal". (NOTE: When editing this out, KJV censors didn't do their job well and missed removing the same phrase in Mark 13:32).
However, modern English Bibles and their censors still wish to proclaim that trinity doctrine. So while they correct texts that are well known frauds among Greek scholars, they "invent" some new ones to use in their modern English versions.
Examples:
John 1:18 in many modern English Bibles has the phrase "God the only Son" inserted, an attempt to put "God the Son" a phrase from the Athanasian Creed (the real source of trinity) into the Bible text itself.
Philip 2:6 has been reworded to make it seem like Jesus possessed the nature God did. Besides being reworded and not correctly, all who live in heaven must be in the nature of God or else they could not live there with him without being destroyed. The saints who go to heaven are going to be sharers of the Almighty's divine nature, too. 2 Peter 1:4, any Bible.
If trinity is true, and trinitarians are right, WHY ALL THE LYING AND BIBLE MANIPULATION? Why all the withholding of facts, the struggle to create proof texts for it when it can easily be found out, why try to insert the text of the manmade Athanasian Creed into the Bible, why lie about the religion that could show you all this information for yourself? Obviously, it is because the doctrine is false and in many cases clergy KNOW it. Can you imagine how many members and how much money they would lose if they informed people of the facts?!
The Roman Catholic Church in Italy did that one time. They obtained one of our books and conducted studies about JWs out of it and tried to prove their doctrines against us. Tens of thousands left from that and became JWs. We are the second largest religion in both Italy and Spain, RC strongholds and location of the Vatican and the Pope them- selves!
People know the truth when they see it! The problem is not proving the facts, but getting people to overcome fear and misinformation to ask questions and check for themselves. Acts 17:11
I, and all of Jehovah's Witnesses, hope you will want to do so! Feel free to ask for help from any of us or write to me if you'd rather!
Christian Love, Debbie
PS THERE IS STILL MORE I PLAN TO DO TO THIS PAGE MOSTLY CENTERING ON DIFFERENT BIBLE VERSIONS AND GREEK/HEBREW. I HAVE LITTLE TO NO PLANS TO REDEAL WITH COMMONLY USED PROOF TEXTS THAT ARE ALREADY IN THE OTHER PUBLICATIONS. THE EXCEPTION TO THAT WILL BE IF/WHAT YOU CAN FIND OUT FIRST HAND BY CHECKING DIFFERENT BIBLE VERSIONS OR GREEK INTERLINEARS. WHEN YOU CAN FIND OUR INFORMATION OR RENDERINGS CONFIRMED IN THESE VERSIONS, I WILL LINK THEM.
PLEASE REMEMBER....I'M BARELY ABLE TO USE HTML SO IT WILL TAKE A WHILE TO DO THIS!!! ALSO, I GO INTO THE HOSPITAL MONDAY MORNING, JULY 6 FOR A COMPLICATED SURGERY AND WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET TO THIS FOR AN INDEFINITE PERIOD. SAME FOR MY EMAIL! AND I'M GONE 50 HOURS PER WEEK TO WORK, AND HAVE A TODDLER.... ADDITIONALLY, I HAVE SOME MUSLIM PALS WHO ARE ANXIOUS TO SEE MY NOTES ON THE QURAN AND I CANNOT NEGLECT THEM EITHER. PREPARING MY NOTES ON THAT WILL BE THE TOP PRIORITY WITH UPDATING THIS SITE WHEN I GET BACK!! I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO PLACATE, OR MOLLY-CODDLE PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY READ HERE, OPPOSERS. THIS IS TO HELP SINCERE RESEARCHERS. PEOPLE WHO WRITE FOR LEARNING NOT FOR HATE! REALLY, WHY WOULD I WANT TO MAKE THIS SITE FOR THE BAD MOUTHS AND VICIOUS PEOPLE WHO LOVE TO FIGHT?? SOMEONE ASKED ME WHO ARE JW TO JUDGE WHAT IS TRUE OR FALSE AND TELL OTHERS THESE THINGS? THE BIBLE REQUIRES REPROVING THOSE WHO CONTRADICT THE BIBLE. TITUS 1:9-11, 13, 14, ACTS 20:20, 21, MATT. 10:12-15, 24:14, ACTS 1:8. WE ARE BLOODGUILTY AND MURDEROUS IF WE DON'T! BESIDES, CHRISTENDOM GOES BEYOND MERE WORD IN HOW THEY JUDGE OTHERS. FOR EXAMPLE, THEY OFTEN MAKE THEMSELVES THE STATE RELIGION AND FORCE MEMBERSHIP EVEN TODAY. THEY TRY TO PREVENT MANY RELIGIONS FROM BUILDING CHURCHES, HOLDING MEETINGS OR PUBLISHING/DISTRIBUTING/ USING ANY BIBLE VERSION (EVEN IN THE USA). THEY ALSO CHOSE TO PUNISH OTHERS FOR THEIR SINS OR WRONG DOING BY GOING TO WAR AND KILLING MANY MILLIONS INCLUDING HELPLESS WOMEN AND CHILDREN. CHRISTENDOM HAS SO FAR FOUGHT 2 WORLD WARS AGAINST OTHER CHRISTIAN NATIONS. THE HOLOCAUST WAS COMMITTED BY CHRISTIANS! WE CORRECT OTHERS SCRIPTURALLY IF THEY WANT TO HEAR (WE DON'T FORCE ANYONE), BUT WE DON'T KILL THEM FOR THEIR ACTIONS OR IDEAS LIKE CHRISTENDOM DOES. IT'S NOT HONEST OR REALISTIC TO BE FAULTFINDING WITH JWS FOR TEACHING THINGS CORRECTLY TO ONES WHO WANT TO HEAR. IT'S JUST AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE US LOOK BAD AND PREVENT PEOPLE FROM LEARNING. WE AREN'T THE MURDERERS. WE DON'T HAVE PRISONERS OF WAR, MIND ALTERING DRUGS, CAMPS WE TAKE PEOPLE TO, PSYCHOLOGISTS/PSYCHIATRISTS WHO CONTROL OTHERS BEHAVIOR WITH DRUGS. THAT IS PART OF THE POLITICO- PSYCHOLOGICAL-RELIGIO SYSTEM CHRISTENDOM HAS CREATED.