Posted by Falcon on August 01, 1997 at 06:47:54 PDT
in reply to Judgement Day (1418), posted by Sledge on July 31, 1997 at 21:32:41 PDT

> Liefeld's art in it is horrid. Did he ever learn to draw a background? Flip through it, there no backgrounds in he Liefeld parts. There's just scratches and lines. And surrounding his poor art with the art of talented pro's makes his look even worse. Bad idea.

> -=Sledge=-

I've wondered about that. What must it be like for an inker like, say, Dan Green or somebody, to ink pencils they despised like, say Rob Liefeld's? I'm not assuming that they despised Rob Liefeld's pencils, but there's a fair chance that some inker must have disliked his work. I may be wrong, but I think, generally, inkers don't get to choose their assignments. I'm guessing that at least some inkers view inking as just a job.

Falcon

Host = mpngate3.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.51)

Posted by angent america on August 01, 1997 at 07:55:19 PDT
in reply to Re: fixer I want to now something (1417), posted by Fixer on July 31, 1997 at 21:10:10 PDT

I liked it byt is omega and alpha just diffrent covers

Host = pm1-5.wcoil.com (206.230.70.56)

Posted by Charles Nicolosi on August 01, 1997 at 12:20:35 PDT

Well, I've decided to start collecting Cap figures. I know
there has to be someone out there with a list of new figures
that will be coming out. Seems like I heard a couple months
ago about a new line of Avengers that will have a Captain America.
Has anyone else heard about that?

Thanks!

• My Home Page

Host = babylon.gactr.uga.edu (128.192.37.218)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 01, 1997 at 17:15:52 PDT
in reply to Any new Cap figures out? (1425), posted by Charles Nicolosi on August 01, 1997 at 12:20:35 PDT

> Well, I've decided to start collecting Cap figures. I know
> there has to be someone out there with a list of new figures
> that will be coming out. Seems like I heard a couple months
> ago about a new line of Avengers that will have a Captain America.
> Has anyone else heard about that?

As far as I know, the Avengers set will be Scarlet, Iron Man, Thor, and Loki, NOT Captain America, since he is ostensibly available as part of the ElectroSpark Spiderman set.

Also, KB Toys is closing out their 10" high series, which includes a Captain America figure.

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by Albert B. Ching on August 01, 1997 at 17:20:41 PDT
in reply to Re: Any new Cap figures out? (1426), posted by David Medinnus on August 01, 1997 at 17:15:52 PDT

> > Well, I've decided to start collecting Cap figures. I know
> > there has to be someone out there with a list of new figures
> > that will be coming out. Seems like I heard a couple months
> > ago about a new line of Avengers that will have a Captain America.
> > Has anyone else heard about that?
> As far as I know, the Avengers set will be Scarlet, Iron Man, Thor, and Loki, NOT Captain America, since he is ostensibly available as part of the ElectroSpark Spiderman set.
> Also, KB Toys is closing out their 10" high series, which includes a Captain America figure.
> -DM
And that ElectroSpark Cap is quite a figure, despite its shield...UGH!!!!!
Yeah, isn't there a possibility they'll have more assortments of Avenegrs figures?
Albert

Host = aztec2.asu.edu (129.219.129.221)

Posted by Batroc on August 01, 1997 at 20:20:02 PDT

>>>How about posting a pic of that All-Select #1 cover for all the kiddies.
I think it is intriguing. Please note that Namor is quite often depicted as a giant and Cap looks like Machinegun Kelly draped in a flag.
Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 04, 1997 at 10:21:19 PDT
in reply to Hey, Mr. Moderator! (1428), posted by Batroc on August 01, 1997 at 20:20:02 PDT

> >>>How about posting a pic of that All-Select #1 cover for all the kiddies.
> I think it is intriguing. Please note that Namor is quite often depicted as a giant and Cap looks like Machinegun Kelly draped in a flag.

Sigh. Don't have a copy.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't have/know everything...like who Albert Malik was...

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 04, 1997 at 13:02:15 PDT

Thanx to everyone who participated, and to those of you who keep participating!

Answers to the Sidekick Question

The new question: How much of Cap's old support network should he keep?

-DM

• The Star-Spangled Site

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 04, 1997 at 13:12:19 PDT

The next couple of polls are going to be "Who has been the best Cap Artist" and then "Who has been the best Cap Writer"; I'd like all your help in assembling definitive lists of the writers and artists.

To be eligible, they must have written Tales Of Suspense, Captain America (any vintage), Avengers, or the Invaders.

There will be winners in both Artist and Writer category, with Captain America prizes from my vast store of Cap collectables; the Writers list will win a German Cap X-Mas ornament (like a PVC figure, but with a hanger-notch in the top of his head), and the Artists list will win a Captain America golf ball.

Not to mention my Everlasting Gratitude... :)

Ooooh. Ahhhhh.

Deadlines for both contests are August 15th. Send entries to me at the usual address (medinnus@sigma.net). Bonus points for documentation (what issues they did, and of which titles).

Thanx!

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by Night Hawk on August 04, 1997 at 20:04:06 PDT

Hi, I am rather new to message boards, but I have been following this one for sometime, and I really like Marvel comics. However, I am just getting back into them and have a few questions about Cap, or rather his shield. I am aware that it is made from adamatium (hope thats the right spelling) but I was wondering if anyone knew how much of this stuff was supposed to have been created? How much remains? And which agency has control of it?

Thanks

A curious Night Hawk

Host = dyn206-48-121-32.cha.mnsi.net (206.48.121.32)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 04, 1997 at 20:59:16 PDT
in reply to adamatium (1432), posted by Night Hawk on August 04, 1997 at 20:04:06 PDT

> Hi, I am rather new to message boards, but I have been following this one for sometime, and I really like Marvel comics. However, I am just getting back into them and have a few questions about Cap, or rather his shield. I am aware that it is made from adamatium (hope thats the right spelling) but I was wondering if anyone knew how much of this stuff was supposed to have been created? How much remains? And which agency has control of it?
> Thanks
> A curious Night Hawk
>>>Adamantium was created by SHIELD technos in Avengers #66, quickly stolen by the Vision and given to the nefarious Ultron-6 who molded his body with it.
Adamantium can withstand a direct hit from Thor's hammer with hardly a scratch. Although Adamantium has not had widespread use, Tony Stark does seem to have a supply. He supplied Ultron with needed materials in Avengers #202 and he constructed a replica Adamantium Shield for Captain America during Armor Wars.
As you probably know Wolverine has/had adamantium claws and skeleton.
>>>Cap's shield was categorized as "steel" I believe in the 1960's and was even apparently destroyed by the Living Laser in Avengers #35. Since that time it has been revealed that the Shield was created during WWII in a unique experiment that cannot be replicated. It was presented to Cap by FDR himself during the early days of Cap's career.
Cap's shield appears to be similar to Adamnatium. It has taken poundings by the Hulk, withstood Thor's hammer (Avengers #10 and Avengers #111) and direct pressure from the ultra powered Count Nefaria. The straps of the Shield can be cut (Machete, CAp #301 and the paint can apparently be scratched although it has a high refractory coat. It is also perfectly balanced, lightweight, and is subject to magnetism. I hope this answers some of your questions, if not post me a reply and the All-Knowing Medinnus himself may enlighten you.
Ciao, Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Peter Parker on August 04, 1997 at 21:42:09 PDT
in reply to ADAMANTIUM!!! (1433), posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 04, 1997 at 20:59:16 PDT

> > Hi, I am rather new to message boards, but I have been following this one for sometime, and I really like Marvel comics. However, I am just getting back into them and have a few questions about Cap, or rather his shield. I am aware that it is made from adamatium (hope thats the right spelling) but I was wondering if anyone knew how much of this stuff was supposed to have been created? How much remains? And which agency has control of it?
> > Thanks
> > A curious Night Hawk
> >>>Adamantium was created by SHIELD technos in Avengers #66, quickly stolen by the Vision and given to the nefarious Ultron-6 who molded his body with it.
> Adamantium can withstand a direct hit from Thor's hammer with hardly a scratch. Although Adamantium has not had widespread use, Tony Stark does seem to have a supply. He supplied Ultron with needed materials in Avengers #202 and he constructed a replica Adamantium Shield for Captain America during Armor Wars.
> As you probably know Wolverine has/had adamantium claws and skeleton.
> >>>Cap's shield was categorized as "steel" I believe in the 1960's and was even apparently destroyed by the Living Laser in Avengers #35. Since that time it has been revealed that the Shield was created during WWII in a unique experiment that cannot be replicated. It was presented to Cap by FDR himself during the early days of Cap's career.
> Cap's shield appears to be similar to Adamnatium. It has taken poundings by the Hulk, withstood Thor's hammer (Avengers #10 and Avengers #111) and direct pressure from the ultra powered Count Nefaria. The straps of the Shield can be cut (Machete, CAp #301 and the paint can apparently be scratched although it has a high refractory coat. It is also perfectly balanced, lightweight, and is subject to magnetism. I hope this answers some of your questions, if not post me a reply and the All-Knowing Medinnus himself may enlighten you.
> Ciao, Batroc the Leaper

Um.....just reminding you two of something EXTREMELY important.....Cap's shield is a unique, unduplicable vibranium/adamantium mixture. That's why it can withstand so much more than regualar adamantium and pure adamantium. They replicated it only once, the USAgent's shield.

Host = pm5-adr166.interl.net (205.160.214.166)

Posted by Falcon on August 05, 1997 at 05:21:38 PDT
in reply to Re: ADAMANTIUM!!! (1434), posted by Peter Parker on August 04, 1997 at 21:42:09 PDT

> > > Hi, I am rather new to message boards, but I have been following this one for sometime, and I really like Marvel comics. However, I am just getting back into them and have a few questions about Cap, or rather his shield. I am aware that it is made from adamatium (hope thats the right spelling) but I was wondering if anyone knew how much of this stuff was supposed to have been created? How much remains? And which agency has control of it?
> > > Thanks
> > > A curious Night Hawk
> > >>>Adamantium was created by SHIELD technos in Avengers #66, quickly stolen by the Vision and given to the nefarious Ultron-6 who molded his body with it.
> > Adamantium can withstand a direct hit from Thor's hammer with hardly a scratch. Although Adamantium has not had widespread use, Tony Stark does seem to have a supply. He supplied Ultron with needed materials in Avengers #202 and he constructed a replica Adamantium Shield for Captain America during Armor Wars.
> > As you probably know Wolverine has/had adamantium claws and skeleton.
> > >>>Cap's shield was categorized as "steel" I believe in the 1960's and was even apparently destroyed by the Living Laser in Avengers #35. Since that time it has been revealed that the Shield was created during WWII in a unique experiment that cannot be replicated. It was presented to Cap by FDR himself during the early days of Cap's career.
> > Cap's shield appears to be similar to Adamnatium. It has taken poundings by the Hulk, withstood Thor's hammer (Avengers #10 and Avengers #111) and direct pressure from the ultra powered Count Nefaria. The straps of the Shield can be cut (Machete, CAp #301 and the paint can apparently be scratched although it has a high refractory coat. It is also perfectly balanced, lightweight, and is subject to magnetism. I hope this answers some of your questions, if not post me a reply and the All-Knowing Medinnus himself may enlighten you.
> > Ciao, Batroc the Leaper

> Um.....just reminding you two of something EXTREMELY important.....Cap's shield is a unique, unduplicable vibranium/adamantium mixture. That's why it can withstand so much more than regualar adamantium and pure adamantium. They replicated it only once, the USAgent's shield.

But the USAgent's shield was broken in HULK: Future Imperfect.

Falcon

Host = mpngate3.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.51)

Posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 05:29:52 PDT
in reply to Re: ADAMANTIUM!!! (1435), posted by Falcon on August 05, 1997 at 05:21:38 PDT

> > > > Hi, I am rather new to message boards, but I have been following this one for sometime, and I really like Marvel comics. However, I am just getting back into them and have a few questions about Cap, or rather his shield. I am aware that it is made from adamatium (hope thats the right spelling) but I was wondering if anyone knew how much of this stuff was supposed to have been created? How much remains? And which agency has control of it?
> > > > Thanks
> > > > A curious Night Hawk
> > > >>>Adamantium was created by SHIELD technos in Avengers #66, quickly stolen by the Vision and given to the nefarious Ultron-6 who molded his body with it.
> > > Adamantium can withstand a direct hit from Thor's hammer with hardly a scratch. Although Adamantium has not had widespread use, Tony Stark does seem to have a supply. He supplied Ultron with needed materials in Avengers #202 and he constructed a replica Adamantium Shield for Captain America during Armor Wars.
> > > As you probably know Wolverine has/had adamantium claws and skeleton.
> > > >>>Cap's shield was categorized as "steel" I believe in the 1960's and was even apparently destroyed by the Living Laser in Avengers #35. Since that time it has been revealed that the Shield was created during WWII in a unique experiment that cannot be replicated. It was presented to Cap by FDR himself during the early days of Cap's career.
> > > Cap's shield appears to be similar to Adamnatium. It has taken poundings by the Hulk, withstood Thor's hammer (Avengers #10 and Avengers #111) and direct pressure from the ultra powered Count Nefaria. The straps of the Shield can be cut (Machete, CAp #301 and the paint can apparently be scratched although it has a high refractory coat. It is also perfectly balanced, lightweight, and is subject to magnetism. I hope this answers some of your questions, if not post me a reply and the All-Knowing Medinnus himself may enlighten you.
> > > Ciao, Batroc the Leaper
»
> > Um.....just reminding you two of something EXTREMELY important.....Cap's shield is a unique, unduplicable vibranium/adamantium mixture. That's why it can withstand so much more than regualar adamantium and pure adamantium. They replicated it only once, the USAgent's shield.
»
> But the USAgent's shield was broken in HULK: Future Imperfect.
> Falcon
>>> I do not think that US Agent's shield is the same quality as Cap's. Didn't he throw it in the ocean in WCA #102? The experiment that created Cap's shield was one of a kind. Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Dave Medinnus on August 05, 1997 at 09:24:42 PDT
in reply to Re: ADAMANTIUM!!! (1436), posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 05:29:52 PDT

> Hi, I am rather new to message boards, but I have been following this one for sometime, and I really like Marvel comics. However, I am just getting back into them and have a few questions about Cap, or rather his shield. I am aware that it is made from adamatium (hope thats the right spelling) but I was wondering if anyone knew how much of this stuff was supposed to have been created? How much remains? And which agency has control of it?

Cap's shield is a unique alloy of adamantium and vibranium accidentally created in the USA in the early 1940's; it replaced Cap's original "kite" shaped shield shortly after he appeared.

>Adamantium was created by SHIELD technos in Avengers #66, quickly stolen by the Vision and given to the nefarious Ultron-6 who molded his body with it.

Adamantium had been known for some time; it was the SHIELD invention of the molecular re-arranger which allows users to shape the adamantium which was the breakthrough.

> Adamantium can withstand a direct hit from Thor's hammer with hardly a scratch. Although Adamantium has not had widespread use, Tony Stark does seem to have a supply. He supplied Ultron with needed materials in Avengers #202 and he constructed a replica Adamantium Shield for Captain America during Armor Wars.

I believe that Stark obtains his supply under license from SHIELD for the production of some of their weapon systems; this was (I think) documented in a '70s issue of Iron Man. Of course, given the relationship between T'Challa and Tony, he probably has a ready source for Vibranium as well.

But of course, it has become as widespread as any other ten-year-old technological invention - in short, many subversive or shadow organizations have the formulae and technology to mold it.

>Cap's shield was categorized as "steel" I believe in the 1960's and was even apparently destroyed by the Living Laser in Avengers #35.

In the early days of the Avengers and Tales of Suspense, Cap didn't use his original sheild, but rather a steel alloy replacement which allowed Stark to put gizmos within it, allowing Steve to magnetically control its flight. It was one of these shields which was destroyed in, oh, what...Avengers 26 or so against the Living Laser.

> Um.....just reminding you two of something EXTREMELY important.....Cap's shield is a unique, unduplicable vibranium/adamantium mixture. That's why it can withstand so much more than regualar adamantium and pure adamantium. They replicated it only once, the USAgent's shield.

USAgent's shield was the shield made for Steve Rogers as the Captain, and was made from Wakandan Vibranium.

Hope this helps!

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by Roscoe on August 05, 1997 at 09:32:31 PDT

I know we went through this awhile ago, but can someone give me a master list of Liberty Legion members? Also, it would help if you could tell me a site with pictures of the Legion. Thanks.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma6-11.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.139)

Posted by Night Hawk on August 05, 1997 at 13:06:18 PDT

Thanks to all for the info on Cap's shield, and the correct spelling of adamantium. One further question though. How is adamantium and/or the adamantium/vibranium combination forged into weapons i.e. Cap's shield, or merged into Wolverine's bones?

Host = dyn206-48-121-163.cha.mnsi.net (206.48.121.163)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 05, 1997 at 16:25:07 PDT
in reply to ADAMANTIUM (1439), posted by Night Hawk on August 05, 1997 at 13:06:18 PDT

> Thanks to all for the info on Cap's shield, and the correct spelling of adamantium. One further question though. How is adamantium and/or the adamantium/vibranium combination forged into weapons i.e. Cap's shield, or merged into Wolverine's bones?

They've been awfully indistinct about that; the most common way is to have it done 'off-stage' :)

There is a 'molecular re-arranger' which allows one to form; Magneto used his powers to rip it from Wolverine (the implication being that given sufficient magnetic force, it can 'forge' it); I presume that various sorcerous or cosmic powers can transform its shape.

Vibranium is even less-well defined, with AIM and Wakanda having methods of mining, smelting, etc.

I can only remember vibranium occuring as ore; I don't really know how adamantium is made/refined. Merging the two successfully to form a stronger-than-either alloy has only been done as an accident (the results were the Cap Shield).

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 05, 1997 at 16:31:55 PDT
in reply to Liberty Legion (1438), posted by Roscoe on August 05, 1997 at 09:32:31 PDT

>
> I know we went through this awhile ago, but can someone give me a master list of Liberty Legion members? Also, it would help if you could tell me a site with pictures of the Legion. Thanks.

This is from memory, and so probably not really accurate:

Miss America
Bucky
Whizzer
Red Raven
Thin Man
Blue Diamond
Patriot
Jack Frost

As far as I know, aside from the occassional picture on the Star-Spangled Site (http://www.sigma.net/capt_am/) of the Patriot, I don't think there are any web pictures.

Nobody has done anything with them in too long, mostly because most of the members' fates have already been revealed (Whizzer and Miss America joined the Invaders, which then became the All-Winners Squad, retired, had kids, Miss America died in childbirth, Whizzer died in action with the Avengers against -more or less- Nuklo, his child. Red Raven died in X-Men, Patriot became Captain America III, Bucky died when the drone-plane blew up. I forget about Blue Diamond and Jack Frost, except that I recall someone mentioning their -uninteresting- fates; I don't think that anyone ever heard from Thin Man again).

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 18:13:21 PDT
in reply to Re: ADAMANTIUM!!! (1437), posted by Dave Medinnus on August 05, 1997 at 09:24:42 PDT

Now we have danced this dance before, you are well versed enough to know that Cap's shield was originally described as steel. Then the Cap mythos wanted to make the shield a one of a kind indestructable, unduplicatable weapon.
This of course has added to the Captain America mythos.
When did Cap switch from the steel shield to the current indestructible model. Don't say Suspense #62, because Living Laser destroyed his shield in Avengers #35 (much later). While you are doing that I will find the first reference to Cap's shield being indestructible.
P.S. Don't give me any sarcastic answer either (smile). Your friend, Batroc the Leaper.
»

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 18:17:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Liberty Legion (1441), posted by David Medinnus on August 05, 1997 at 16:31:55 PDT

> »
> > I know we went through this awhile ago, but can someone give me a master list of Liberty Legion members? Also, it would help if you could tell me a site with pictures of the Legion. Thanks.
> This is from memory, and so probably not really accurate:
> Miss America
> Bucky
> Whizzer
> Red Raven
> Thin Man
> Blue Diamond
> Patriot
> Jack Frost
> As far as I know, aside from the occassional picture on the Star-Spangled Site (http://www.sigma.net/capt_am/) of the Patriot, I don't think there are any web pictures.
> Nobody has done anything with them in too long, mostly because most of the members' fates have already been revealed (Whizzer and Miss America joined the Invaders, which then became the All-Winners Squad, retired, had kids, Miss America died in childbirth, Whizzer died in action with the Avengers against -more or less- Nuklo, his child. Red Raven died in X-Men, Patriot became Captain America III, Bucky died when the drone-plane blew up. I forget about Blue Diamond and Jack Frost, except that I recall someone mentioning their -uninteresting- fates; I don't think that anyone ever heard from Thin Man again).
> -DM
>>>You may count Blazing Skull as a member. He answered the Thin Man's call for help in Invaders Vol. #2. Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Roscoe on August 05, 1997 at 20:17:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Liberty Legion (1443), posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 18:17:00 PDT

> > »
> > > I know we went through this awhile ago, but can someone give me a master list of Liberty Legion members? Also, it would help if you could tell me a site with pictures of the Legion. Thanks.
> > This is from memory, and so probably not really accurate:
> > Miss America
> > Bucky
> > Whizzer
> > Red Raven
> > Thin Man
> > Blue Diamond
> > Patriot
> > Jack Frost
> > As far as I know, aside from the occassional picture on the Star-Spangled Site (http://www.sigma.net/capt_am/) of the Patriot, I don't think there are any web pictures.
> > Nobody has done anything with them in too long, mostly because most of the members' fates have already been revealed (Whizzer and Miss America joined the Invaders, which then became the All-Winners Squad, retired, had kids, Miss America died in childbirth, Whizzer died in action with the Avengers against -more or less- Nuklo, his child. Red Raven died in X-Men, Patriot became Captain America III, Bucky died when the drone-plane blew up. I forget about Blue Diamond and Jack Frost, except that I recall someone mentioning their -uninteresting- fates; I don't think that anyone ever heard from Thin Man again).
> > -DM
> >>>You may count Blazing Skull as a member. He answered the Thin Man's call for help in Invaders Vol. #2. Batroc

Thanks...you may be interested to know that a) Jack Frost's fate was revealled in Cap #384 and b) Thin Man was the mastermind behind the Scourge of the Underworld (as revealled in Marvel Comics Presents I believe).

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma6-11.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.139)

Posted by Roscoe on August 05, 1997 at 20:18:43 PDT
in reply to Re: O.K., David, Answer this! (1442), posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 18:13:21 PDT

> Now we have danced this dance before, you are well versed enough to know that Cap's shield was originally described as steel. Then the Cap mythos wanted to make the shield a one of a kind indestructable, unduplicatable weapon.
> This of course has added to the Captain America mythos.
> When did Cap switch from the steel shield to the current indestructible model. Don't say Suspense #62, because Living Laser destroyed his shield in Avengers #35 (much later). While you are doing that I will find the first reference to Cap's shield being indestructible.
> P.S. Don't give me any sarcastic answer either (smile). Your friend, Batroc the Leaper.
> »

Eh, the shield being destroyed in Avengers #35 was admitted to be an editorial error at the time (in a letter column) and I believe they fabricated some story about Cap using an extra shield during that issue for some reason or other.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma6-11.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.139)

Posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 20:37:03 PDT

This is a historical look at Cap's shield not a retcon or MU explanation.
>>>Cap's Shield was not shown to have any special properties until issues #154-156. Here the 1950's Cap (The Grand Director) has a shield that crumples against brick and shatters upon impact with the original Cap's Shield. Readers ask questions. In #160, Marvel promises an explanation and revealations about Cap's Shield.
I don't believe an explanation is forthcoming until #215, when Cap declares that his Shield has a "secret". In #247, he notes that his Shield has special imapact absorbing abilities. In #255, FDR is shown presenting Cap the Shield during WWII and he notes that it was created in a unique experiment. Since then, we know that it is a unique mix of adamantium and vibranium that is indestructible and impact absorbing.
>>>The indestructible Shield mythos had its seed planted by Englehart and Roy Thomas. Byrne, as he is want to do, retconned history to give us the Shield's origin. If anyone has anymore information or comments, I would appreciate them. Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 20:46:52 PDT
in reply to Re: O.K., David, Answer this! (1445), posted by Roscoe on August 05, 1997 at 20:18:43 PDT

> > Now we have danced this dance before, you are well versed enough to know that Cap's shield was originally described as steel. Then the Cap mythos wanted to make the shield a one of a kind indestructable, unduplicatable weapon.
> > This of course has added to the Captain America mythos.
> > When did Cap switch from the steel shield to the current indestructible model. Don't say Suspense #62, because Living Laser destroyed his shield in Avengers #35 (much later). While you are doing that I will find the first reference to Cap's shield being indestructible.
> > P.S. Don't give me any sarcastic answer either (smile). Your friend, Batroc the Leaper.
> > »
> Eh, the shield being destroyed in Avengers #35 was admitted to be an editorial error at the time (in a letter column) and I believe they fabricated some story about Cap using an extra shield during that issue for some reason or other.
> -Roscoe
>>>Yes, the destruction of Cap's shield in Avengers #35 was a HUGE editorial mistake. Now I like that better than Dave's premise that Cap carried a steel shield around when he had an impact absorbing indestructible one!!
This Shield can be magnetized by the way, Magneto hurled it in Super Villian Team-up ( I want to say issue #17). So Dave, don't say that is the reason why.
Batroc

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on August 06, 1997 at 07:50:20 PDT

>>>>OK, Roscoe is back from vacation so here we go.
1.) What was the name of the University where Cap (Steve Rogers) taught?
2.) Why did William Taurey have an obsession to kill Steve Rogers?
3.) Name the first appearance of Figaro (I hadda do it....)
Rotsa Ruck,,,,Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Batroc on August 06, 1997 at 07:58:05 PDT

>>> I was looking through my back issues and I found my Cap #101 has the splash page
signed by one Jack Kirby. I have had this book since the late 70's and never noticed. I have several issues with names on them usually the prior owner.
How can I authenticate this signature? If I saw a copy of Jack's Signature I would know. I don't think Kirby signed any covers, sometimes going with the initial K and a / with the inkers first initial (Usually Joe Sinnott)
Any sugggestions would be appreciated. Batroc the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Roscoe on August 06, 1997 at 08:17:18 PDT
in reply to Maybe somebody can help me. (1449), posted by Batroc on August 06, 1997 at 07:58:05 PDT

> >>> I was looking through my back issues and I found my Cap #101 has the splash page
> signed by one Jack Kirby. I have had this book since the late 70's and never noticed. I have several issues with names on them usually the prior owner.
> How can I authenticate this signature? If I saw a copy of Jack's Signature I would know. I don't think Kirby signed any covers, sometimes going with the initial K and a / with the inkers first initial (Usually Joe Sinnott)
> Any sugggestions would be appreciated. Batroc the Leaper

One simple way is to send it directly to me, so I can look at it carefully. Then I will simply mail you a copy of #101. See, easy as pie.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma6-11.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.139)

Posted by Batroc on August 06, 1997 at 09:08:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Maybe somebody can help me. (1450), posted by Roscoe on August 06, 1997 at 08:17:18 PDT

> > >>> I was looking through my back issues and I found my Cap #101 has the splash page
> > signed by one Jack Kirby. I have had this book since the late 70's and never noticed. I have several issues with names on them usually the prior owner.
> > How can I authenticate this signature? If I saw a copy of Jack's Signature I would know. I don't think Kirby signed any covers, sometimes going with the initial K and a / with the inkers first initial (Usually Joe Sinnott)
> > Any sugggestions would be appreciated. Batroc the Leaper
> One simple way is to send it directly to me, so I can look at it carefully. Then I will simply mail you a copy of #101. See, easy as pie.
> -Roscoe
>>>Can this man be trusted? There is a big comic shop in Nashville that had Stan Lee up one time. I think they have autographed comics. Maybe I can check it there. The name of the shop is Collector's World and they are always in competition with the Great Escape stores. The result is usually a buyer's back issue market.
Roscoe, BTW I made the triv question with you in mind. Ze Lepair

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by David Medinnus on August 06, 1997 at 10:06:00 PDT
in reply to Re: Liberty Legion (1444), posted by Roscoe on August 05, 1997 at 20:17:00 PDT

> Thanks...you may be interested to know that a) Jack Frost's fate was revealled in Cap #384 and b) Thin Man was the mastermind behind the Scourge of the Underworld (as revealled in Marvel Comics Presents I believe).

Nope. The Golden Age Angel was behind Scourge.

-DM

Host = pc3.commerce.net (205.180.68.53)

Posted by Rob on August 06, 1997 at 12:35:48 PDT
in reply to Maybe somebody can help me. (1449), posted by Batroc on August 06, 1997 at 07:58:05 PDT

> >>> I was looking through my back issues and I found my Cap #101 has the splash page
> signed by one Jack Kirby. I have had this book since the late 70's and never noticed. I have several issues with names on them usually the prior owner.
> How can I authenticate this signature? If I saw a copy of Jack's Signature I would know. I don't think Kirby signed any covers, sometimes going with the initial K and a / with the inkers first initial (Usually Joe Sinnott)
> Any sugggestions would be appreciated. Batroc the Leaper

Go to http://www.fantasty.com/kirby/index.html and you will see Kirby's signature. It is the homepage of the Jack Kirby Collector magazine and they use Jack's signature as part of their logo. Also, the big picture on the page at the site has Kirby's signature.

I've been surprised when I've bought comics in discount boxes, only to discover that some of them had been signed by artists such as Keith Plloard (THOR) and Don Perilin (GHOST RIDER). Apparently they signed them...I've no way of knowing if it was really them or not.

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Rob on August 06, 1997 at 12:40:03 PDT
in reply to Cap Triv Time (Again) (1448), posted by Batroc on August 06, 1997 at 07:50:20 PDT

> >>>>OK, Roscoe is back from vacation so here we go.
> 1.) What was the name of the University where Cap (Steve Rogers) taught?
> 2.) Why did William Taurey have an obsession to kill Steve Rogers?
> 3.) Name the first appearance of Figaro (I hadda do it....)
> Rotsa Ruck,,,,Batroc the Leaper

1.) Lee University
2.) He had a grudge because Taurey's long-ago ancestor had a grudge against Rogers' long-ago ancestor. Something like that. It was during the Madbomb Saga.

I knew those two (I got them right?) without looking in my back issues.

As for Figaro, without looking, he had to be #117 or later. I seem to remember Colan drawing him. Maybe #137 or so. That's a guess, without checking my back issues. If nobody gets the answer, I'll go back and look through my back-issues.

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Rob on August 06, 1997 at 13:52:50 PDT

I’m making the rounds, sharing with all my fellow posters what
items I managed to snag at a convention in my area on Sunday. Here’s the reason: Everything I bought at the convention cost either 50
cents or 25 cents. And yet I managed to get some great deals. Here
are some of the Cap-related stuff I bought. All comics were 25 cents
unless otherwise stated.

Captain America #334, 397, 398, 405, 421, 423, 424, 429 (filling some
holes in my Cap collection)

Fantasy Masterpieces (1960s) #8, 11 (These reprint Golden-age Cap,
Subby, & Torch stories. In fact, not sure if I have copies of these
two issues already, but they were only 50 cents each, so I figured I’d
get them anyway. If I do have duplicates, maybe I will give these to
Batroc!)

Skrull Kill Krew #2 (1995): Cap guest-starred in this issue.

Sgt Fury #44, 63, 73, 80, 92, 104, 123; & also the Sgt Fury issue of
Special Marvel Edition #9. These are from the 1960s & 70s.

Recently, we learned on this board about the original star-spangled
superhero, the Shield. Paul’s praise of the Impact versions convinced
me to give them a try. So I got Legend of the Shield #1 (dialogue by
Mark Waid) as well as various other Impact first issues.

Iron Man is one of Cap’s longtime pals. He’s also a character I
picked up a huge haul of issues of: Iron Man #34 (damaged cover, 50
cents), 45 (50 cents), 52, 80, 82, 83, 90, 104, 115, 118, 122, 124,
125, 127, 134-136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 146, 147, 161, 162, 200, 205,
206, 225, 226, 238, 239, 248, 286, 300, 311, 312, 322; Annuals #10-12, 15.

Powerman/Iron Fist #51, 52: Okay, how is this Cap-related? Well, Mike
Zeck did the art! These were 50 cents each. I’m still looking
for a Mike Zeck checklist. If the dealer had bagged these instead of
leaving them open, I might not have gotten these...I didn’t know Zeck
drew ‘em til I peeked inside at the credits!

One guy at the show had multiple copies of Cap #100 up on the wall, as well as Avengers #1 & 4. I didn’t bother asking how much he wanted for them! I did see a poor-condition copy of a 1960s Avengers
(something like #17) priced at 2 bucks.

If you want to know what other comics I got, check out the link at the bottom of the page, which will take you to my post on the Superboy board. (There is a link to my post on the Thor board at the end of that post, too. See, it all connects!) And the next time you hear somebody
complaining about how much comics cost, tell them to check out the
discount boxes.

Rob

• More comics I bought on Sunday

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Jamie on August 06, 1997 at 15:24:21 PDT

Damn it, I'm getting very impatient with this project ! What the hell is with this
thing ?! It was supposed to be available in July ! I have a few AA/FA questions .

1.) What is this project to be called- Fighting American or Agent America ?

2.) When is this project going to be available and on the damn shelves ?

3.) Why's it taking so long ?

Sorry for being so irradble . It's just that I've been waiting for this project for
weeks ! Please answer my questions even if you only know the answer to one .

Jamie

Host = bristlecone.frazmtn.com (204.212.38.12)

Posted by Batroc on August 06, 1997 at 16:46:35 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap Triv Time (Again) (1454), posted by Rob on August 06, 1997 at 12:40:03 PDT

»Rob, Question #2 is correct. Taurey and Rogers settle their difference in #200. Your other two responses are incorrect.
I'm sorry. Batroc (Alex Trebek) the Leaper

Host = ten1.ten.k12.tn.us (206.23.236.1)

Posted by Matt on August 06, 1997 at 17:02:13 PDT
in reply to Fighting American/ Agent America : What's with this thing ? (1456), posted by Jamie on August 06, 1997 at 15:24:21 PDT

> Damn it, I'm getting very impatient with this project ! What the hell is with this
> thing ?! It was supposed to be available in July ! I have a few AA/FA questions .

Actually, it was supposed to be out for July 4, right?

> 1.) What is this project to be called- Fighting American or Agent America ?

Since Marvel issued a cease and desist order and Liefeld promptly acquired the rights for Fighting American, I guess FA it is.

> 2.) When is this project going to be available and on the damn shelves ?

Who knows? Who cares?

> 3.) Why's it taking so long ?

Face it, Liefeld's not known for his promptness.

> Jamie

Cheers,

Matt

Host = 209.36.103.133 (209.36.103.133)

Posted by Matt on August 06, 1997 at 17:13:29 PDT
in reply to Re: O.K., David, Answer this! (1447), posted by Batroc on August 05, 1997 at 20:46:52 PDT

I think it's more accurate to say that Cap's shield is near indestructable, since Dr. Doom destroyed it while in possession of the Beyonder's power (see Secret Wars 11-12). Great scene near the end of Secret Wars 12 when Cap reconstructs his shield- really emphasizes what the shield means to him.

Cheers,

Matt

Host = 209.36.103.133 (209.36.103.133)

Posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 06, 1997 at 17:40:12 PDT
in reply to Re: Kirby's signature (1453), posted by Rob on August 06, 1997 at 12:35:48 PDT

> IT'S A MATCH!!!! It was difficult to find since "The King" wrote his name rather than his trademark printed style. I found a picture with
his signature and printed it out. Thanks.
>>>Incidentally, I went to Fantasy.com and it was full of hard core porn.
I was pretty irritated at you right about that time, but I know that is not your idea of a joke. Now Plaidy, he would have sent me there for a few laughs............
Oh well, I finally got over to the Kirby site and found what I wanted.
Regards, Batroc the Leaper

Host = pmc103.aeneas.net (207.65.53.132)

Posted by The Plaid Skull on August 06, 1997 at 22:23:20 PDT
in reply to Thanks Rob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (1460), posted by Batroc the Leaper on August 06, 1997 at 17:40:12 PDT

> > IT'S A MATCH!!!! It was difficult to find since "The King" wrote his name rather than his trademark printed style. I found a picture with
> his signature and printed it out. Thanks.
> >>>Incidentally, I went to Fantasy.com and it was full of hard core porn.
> I was pretty irritated at you right about that time, but I know that is not your idea of a joke. Now Plaidy, he would have sent me there for a few laughs............
> Oh well, I finally got over to the Kirby site and found what I wanted.
> Regards, Batroc the Leaper

Gahahahaahahahhahahahha!!! You know the Skull too well!!! Fantasy.com huh? Hmmmmm.....

Cya
The Plaid Skull

Whenever there is injustice, tyranny, porno...the Plaid Skull was there!!!

Host = bak-ca1-07.ix.netcom.com (204.32.156.39)

Posted by Falcon on August 07, 1997 at 10:10:26 PDT

Comic Shop News 528 reveals that Kieron Dwyer will be the penciller for a 2-pt series called Elseworld's Finest, in case anyone's interested.

Falcon

Host = mpngate5.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.53)

Posted by Lemar Hoskins on August 07, 1997 at 10:35:27 PDT
in reply to Kieron Dwyer (1462), posted by Falcon on August 07, 1997 at 10:10:26 PDT

> Comic Shop News 528 reveals that Kieron Dwyer will be the penciller for a 2-pt series called Elseworld's Finest, in case anyone's interested.

> Falcon

Cool! Kieron is my favorite cap peciller of all time!

Lemar Hoskins

Host = slip129-37-162-241.on.ca.ibm.net (129.37.162.241)

Posted by Falcon on August 07, 1997 at 11:07:32 PDT
in reply to Re: Kieron Dwyer (1463), posted by Lemar Hoskins on August 07, 1997 at 10:35:27 PDT

> > Comic Shop News 528 reveals that Kieron Dwyer will be the penciller for a 2-pt series called Elseworld's Finest, in case anyone's interested.

> > Falcon

> Cool! Kieron is my favorite cap peciller of all time!

> Lemar Hoskins

Oh, forgot to mention important info like that it's from DC and that it's coming out this month.

Falcon

Host = mpngate5.ca.us.ibm.com (198.133.29.53)

Posted by Rob on August 07, 1997 at 16:06:34 PDT
in reply to Re: Cap Triv Time (Again) (1457), posted by Batroc on August 06, 1997 at 16:46:35 PDT

> »Rob, Question #2 is correct. Taurey and Rogers settle their difference in #200. Your other two responses are incorrect.
> I'm sorry. Batroc (Alex Trebek) the Leaper

Okay, here's my second try at solving the questions...

Steve Rogers became an athletic instructor at Manning University in Cap #120. He didn't stay long, but he gave the cops and kids a workout they won't soon forget!

As for Figaro, I looked through Cap #117-160, and here's what I came up with:

Sam has an unnamed cat in Cap #134.

In Cap #137 (the issue I cited from memory last time!!), we see Sam's cat and it is named Figaro!!! I assume this is the first time his name was used.

The only other Figaro appearances I saw between #117-120 occur in issues #139 & 157.

So, am I right??

Rob

Host = i275.driveninc.com (207.142.98.75)

Posted by Tobin Kennedy on August 07, 1997 at 16:35:41 PDT
in reply to not really indestructable (1459), posted by Matt on August 06, 1997 at 17:13:29 PDT

>
> I think it's more accurate to say that Cap's shield is near indestructable, since Dr. Doom destroyed it while in possession of the Beyonder's power (see Secret Wars 11-12). Great scene near the end of Secret Wars 12 when Cap reconstructs his shield- really emphasizes what the shield means to him.

> Cheers,

> Matt

I believe that Doom took the shield apart on a molecular level (which will destroy anything). Aslo, I believe the only way that admanitium (therefore Cap's shield even if it is a mixture of vibranium, steel and an "unknown factor") can be destroyed after it has set is the use of a molecular re-arranger which...re-arranges molecules.

Tobin

Host = host521.tor1.pda.attcanada.com (142.194.138.9)

Posted by Roscoe on August 07, 1997 at 21:11:39 PDT
in reply to Re: Liberty Legion (1452), posted by David Medinnus on August 06, 1997 at 10:06:00 PDT

>
> > Thanks...you may be interested to know that a) Jack Frost's fate was revealled in Cap #384 and b) Thin Man was the mastermind behind the Scourge of the Underworld (as revealled in Marvel Comics Presents I believe).

> Nope. The Golden Age Angel was behind Scourge.

> -DM

Oh. i had been told Thin Man, but i never read the story.

-Roscoe

Host = wor-ma2-03.ix.netcom.com (205.184.168.67)

Posted by Fixer on August 07, 1997 at 22:44:50 PDT

Captain America (Vol. 2) 11
"Serpents and Eagles Part 4: Into the Snake Pit"
Writer: James Robinson
Artists: Joe Bennet (pencils) and Sandra Hope (inks)
Cover Date: September, 1997.

Plot Summary:

Recap of last issue: Cap's current mission is to take down the Sons of
Serpents. He faked his death and hitched a ride in Nick Fury's car. At
Fury's house, Cap followed Fury. Inside, the SoS were gathered around the
Serpent King with Falcon held hostage. He unmasks; it's Fury.

Back at the Helicarrier, Bucky notices a guarded cell. She trusts her gut
instinct and quickly jumps into battle.

Back at the Serpent house, Captain America reveals himself to Fury. Fury
doesn't seem the least bit surprised that Cap is still alive. Cap quickly
offers a challenge: a one-on-one fight. Cap vs. Fury.

On the Helicarrier, Bucky dispatches the guards and opens the cell. A
shadowy figure lies within -- it's easy to tell who it is, but I won't
spoil it yet.

Fury accepts Cap's challenge at the Serpent estate. Fury proves to be a
damn good fighter, but is eventually overtaken by Cap. The others Serpents
quickly swarm Cap, pinning him to the ground. Falcon yells out, and Cap
complies. Throwing his shield at Falcon's shackles, Cap frees Falcon.
Together, they manage to hold back the tide of Serpents. Fury loads a huge
gun, and sets his sites on Cap's back. But the *real* Fury --who was in
the cell on the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier -- blows his face off. And, with
the real Fury, Falcon, Bucky, and a whole mess of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents, Cap
takes down the Serpents for good.

It turns out that the fake Fury was an L.M.D. -- Life Model Decoy -- taking
orders from a higher power. That higher power is never revealed.

At the end, Cap and Fury are notified that Galactus has arrived.

Review:

This issue was great. James Robinson's a great writer, and though this
isn't his best work, it was still excellent.

To me, it was quite obvious that Fury was an L.M.D. Why, you ask? Well,
if we all remember to a time back when, when Fury's brother(?) was replaced
with an L.M.D. and ruled the Zodiac. Now, this time it was Fury who had
the L.M.D. double, and it was the SoS instead of the Zodiac that he led.
But the analogy was made, in my mind. And, for some reason, I knew Fury
was an L.M.D. Or it could have just been that I didn't think Robinson
would have done that to Fury.

Artwise, I liked it. Not too flashy. Not too cross-hatched. Just nice
clean lines. I vastly prefer this to say..... Rob Liefeld.

An excellent ending to a great tale. Pick it up.

8/10

--Fixer
check out this review and three others this week at The Marvel Universe website

• The Marvel Universe

Host = wb-ppp-d.metronet.lib.mi.us (199.179.66.173)