The Great Phil
Note: To anyone involved in Phil's adventures who may be reading this, I have a few thing to say. First of all, I’ve tried only to include those people who gave consent. Also, I've changed the names of everyone involved so that now they all suck. (I'm sorry. I tried.) They remain in original form at the other site, but I figured none of you wanted them posted here. I've also deleted all of the handles so as not to confuse people. Also, keep in mind that this covers only about one third of Phil’s antics. I’ve boiled it down greatly, but I have not changed what any of you said. If you have any objections, give me an e-mail and I will do my best to rectify the situation. This is the thread on which Phil made his stunning debut. He is thoroughly outwitted by John but, being Phil, doesn’t realize it.

Topic: There is no God.

[ Anonymous ]- created 07:08am Jun 6, 2000 EST

Let's face it: all organized religion is a bunch of superstitious fairy tales. People should grow up and not trust themselves in self-imaged ghosts.

[ Philip II ] - 10:07pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#70 of 135)
God exists, fools! What state of physcosis or stupidity has driven you to deny the obvious? Be reasonable, and recognize what any fool can see.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 10:29pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#71 of 135)
I love these oneday Sallies who come running through here, throwing their confetti around, only to disappear, never to be heard from again.

[ Philip II ] - 10:35pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#72 of 135)
Now you liken the indubitable proof of God's existence to confetti? Tsk, tsk. Is that all you the better you can do?

[ John in NY, NY ] - 10:39pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#73 of 135)
"Now you liken the indubitable proof of God's existence to confetti?"
Actually, I liken your words to confetti: very lightweight and susceptible to even modest tremors of the wind.
Will you please settle thousands of years of philosophical dialogue amongst some of the finest minds ever and tell us of this "indubitable proof."

[ Philip II ] - 10:40pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#74 of 135)
Why certainly. God exists. The only alternate doesn't make any sense. In fact, it is laughable. Therefore, God exists.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 10:42pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#75 of 135)
The inability of your mind to conceive an alternative constitutes a proof? Can we have a show of hands please?

[ Philip II ] - 10:43pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#76 of 135)
No, the utter absurdity of the conceived alternative, as well as it's complete inability to explain the grand mysteries of life, is a proof of the only alternative.

[ dopplercat ] - 10:44pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#77 of 135)
"Why certainly. God exists. The only alternate doesn't make any sense. In fact, it is laughable. Therefore, God exists."
Well, I'm convinced. John, I'm sorry, but I'll just have to take Philip's argument. I like the abuse, and the thousands of years of philosophical dialogue is just to rigorous and considered to provide my daily hit.
Thank you for your attention. 

[ Philip II ] - 10:46pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#78 of 135)
Glad to see someone else has seen the light. Even if they happen to be an insufferably smug smartass.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 10:46pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#79 of 135)
Oh William...you do that to make me laugh, don't you?
Hey Phil...Please do not limit the rest of us in our pursuit of knowledge by your obvious intellectual inability to conceive alternatives.

[ Philip II ] - 10:49pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#80 of 135)
I am perfectly able to concieve alternatives, contrary to your invective post. I simply realize the absurdity of them, whereas you do not. The intellectual deficiency is your own.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 10:51pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#81 of 135)
How are they absurd?

[ Philip II ] - 10:52pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#82 of 135)
You really cannot figure that out yourself? It's so blindingly obvious!

[ John in NY, NY ] - 10:53pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#83 of 135)
Indulge me. How are they absurd?

[ Philip II ] - 10:56pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#84 of 135)
They don't make sense. Where did everything come from if there wasn't a God? Sure, you can talk about the wave constant and string theory, but we all know the truth.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 10:56pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#85 of 135)
Where did god come from?

[ Philip II ] - 10:59pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#86 of 135)
See? You have no sense of the greatness of it all! You just have to placate yourself by asking silly questions. God has always been around. He doesn't need an explanation.
Geez.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:00pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#87 of 135)
"God has always been around. "
The universe has always been around.

[ Philip II ] - 11:00pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#88 of 135)
No it hasn't! Your being silly. God made it. How obvious is that?

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:01pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#89 of 135)
Sure it has. Prove it hasn't.

[ Philip II ] - 11:02pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#90 of 135)
It is impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on you.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:03pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#91 of 135)
OK..You prove that god has been here forever and I will prove that the universe has been here forever.

[ Philip II ] - 11:04pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#92 of 135)
You go first.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:05pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#93 of 135)
There is unending empircal proof that matter and/or energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Since it is here now, it must have been here foreover. Your turn. Give it your best shot.

[ Philip II ] - 11:06pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#94 of 135)
On second thought, I don't need to wait for a silly atheist. I'll prove my point right now.
God exists, because if God did not exist, the greatness of all creation would not be. All the splendor that exists would be gone. The only alternative is ridiculous. Anyone can see it is untrue.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:08pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#95 of 135)
Sorry. You lose. You didn't fulfill your end of the contract. You did not even attempt to prove that god has been here forever.

[ Philip II ] - 11:08pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#96 of 135)
You really believe all that garbage, John? God fixed everything so it would look that way, but it really isn't. (He can do that because he is omnipotent.)

[ Philip II ] - 11:09pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#97 of 135)
No, you lose, John. Since I have just shown the utter absurdity of your excuse of a proof.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:10pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#98 of 135)
Your job was not to disprove my statement, your job was to prove yours. I made a proof that the universe has been here forever. Prove that god has been here foreover. Can't do it , can you?

[ Philip II ] - 11:13pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#99 of 135)
I have. God exists because everything makes sense and fits into his existing. Without God in the picture, everything would collapse like a house of cards in the breeze. Since this hasn't happened, God must exist.
Now could you provide me with a reasonable proof that the universe has been here forever?
I'm waiting.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:14pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#100 of 135)
you did not agree to prove that god exists, you agreed to prove that god has been here forever.
There is unending empircal proof that matter and/or energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Since it is here now, it must have been here foreover.

[ Philip II ] - 11:16pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#101 of 135)
If God exists at all, he has to have existed forever, since he is the origin of all things. Since I have already proven that, my proof is set.
As for your unending empirical proof, it is but straw. God made things the way the are, laws of physics included. He can change them whenever he is inclined to do so.

[ Saki ] - 11:17pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#102 of 135)
Wow

[ Philip II ] - 11:18pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#103 of 135)
Do you agree, Saki ? You seem reasonable.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:18pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#104 of 135)
"If God exists at all, he has to have existed forever, since he is the origin of all things."
No, if he created all things, he only need be ten minutes older than all things. Prove that god has been here foreover.

[ Philip II ] - 11:19pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#105 of 135)
Really, John. This is disapointing. Are peripheral technicalities all you have to defend your cause?
To have created something out of nothing, God has to be infinite. And that means he's been here forever.

[ dopplercat ] - 11:21pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#106 of 135)
John, stop it, you're killing me. Anyone else feel they've stumbled across the messageboard equivalent of Groundhog Day?

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:22pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#107 of 135)
Well, thank you...
This exchange fits nicely into my position that proof for or against the existence of god is not a helpful concept, since each person will have his or her own standard of how much evidence constitutes sufficient evidence for a proof. I thank you for helping to empirically verify my hypothesis.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:23pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#108 of 135)
William...
Never fear, Smith is here.
I was able to extract just the right amount of information from him to help support my position.

[ Philip II ] - 11:24pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#109 of 135)
Oh, I see. Now you're being dismissive. Is that how you always act when your proven wrong?

[ Whatever ] - 11:24pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#110 of 135)
No. He usually gets all flustered and fake cries for pity.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:26pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#111 of 135)
Oh Sirley....I like you, you're silly.

[ Philip II ] - 11:26pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#112 of 135)
Marvelous. More insults. Don't you folks know what "debate" means?

[ Whatever ] - 11:28pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#113 of 135)
I took a Public Speaking class in ninth grade, and we had a debate over the contamination of ground water. I was anti-groundwater contamination.

[ Philip II ] - 11:29pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#114 of 135)
That's nice. I don't like groundwater contamination either.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:29pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#115 of 135)
"I was anti-groundwater contamination"
. Clearly, history has proven you wrong. ;-)

[ Whatever ] - 11:30pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#116 of 135)
Yes it has. :)

[ Philip II ] - 11:37pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#117 of 135)
This is incredible. Now you "rationalists" are insisting ground water contamination is a good thing?

[ dopplercat ] - 11:44pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#118 of 135)
"Marvelous. More insults. Don't you folks know what "debate" means?"
Bugger, I knew I should have paid attention in English.
Phil, do you know what 'pointless' means?
"Now you "rationalists" are insisting ground water contamination is a good thing?"
Not at all, just that lack of ground water contamination is a bad thing. It's an important distinction.

Phil Debates with John on the merits of groundwater contamination some more on another thread. [ Philip II ] - 11:51pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#1106 of 1145)
Annoying, too? You're the one who thinks contaminated ground water is good, John.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:54pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#1107 of 1145)
No, as william said, I think the lack of ground contamination water is bad.

[ Philip II ] - 11:55pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#1108 of 1145)
See how illogical that sounds? What's wrong with you? Doesn't your brain work?

[ John in NY, NY ] - 11:56pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#1109 of 1145)
You just don't get it.

[ Philip II ] - 11:59pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#1110 of 1145)
No, I think you're the one who doesn't get it. Any fool, any cretin knows that bad water is bad. How much simpler can you get?

[ John in NY, NY ] - 12:01am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1111 of 1145)
You see...you did it again. You assumed that the contamination of the water was bad.

[ Philip II ] - 12:02am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1112 of 1145)
It is bad. There nothing wrong with assuming such an obvious thing.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 12:04am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1113 of 1145)
What if the water was contaminated with Floride?

[ Philip II ] - 12:05am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1114 of 1145)
Florinations was a communist plot to taint our bodily fluids. Now that the cold war is over, all of a sudden they find out it may not be so good after all. Coincidence? I think not.

[ John in NY, NY ] - 12:06am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1115 of 1145)
No more soup for you. NEXT!

[ Philip II ] - 12:08am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1116 of 1145)
What are you talking about. No one mentioned soup. Just read all of the labels on a toothpaste container. Fluoride is a bit suspect after taking a look at all that.

[ dopplercat ] - 12:09am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1117 of 1145)
"DC, there is a difference between silliness and absurdity. I had this in mind when I posted. You seem to have missed this, however."
It's the difference that I'm complaining about, Phil. I can't believe you're going all limp on me. Don't make me get the air pump.
"Right now, you're being silly. You know perfectly well what logic is, and I am sure that you are aware that logic dictates one side is correct. Specifically, mine."
Look, Cop-A-Phil, I like shooting fish in a barrel as much as the next man, but I'd like them to at least be moving. D'you think you could at least grab the tail and jiggle it back and forth a bit?
"And finally, are you threatening me? Is another "rationalist" debating technique?"
Yeah, right up there with "Do you know who you're pickin'", "So's your Mother" and "You know I'm right".

I've always enjoyed the Net Threat. It's that feeling of impotence that lets me know I'm living my life right.

[ Philip II ] - 12:11am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1118 of 1145)
Fish in a barrel? Your delusions of grandeur are such that you view any discourse with another person as such? Get help, DC. Please.

[ dopplercat ] - 12:26am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1119 of 1145)
"Fish in a barrel? Your delusions of grandeur are such that you view any discourse with another person as such? Get help, DC. Please."
Ok, anyone else want to help here?
Oh well, looks like it's just me. Phil, I can only speculate how you get from me referring to one comment of yours as shooting fish in a barrel to any discourse with any person. I'm guessing that it's being told you're other people too. You may have started to believe your own press releases.
My little mate Phil one unique guy. He funniest thing to happen to me all day. I treat him special.

[ Whatever ] - 12:26am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1120 of 1145)
Well, I was going to watch Being John Malkovich. For all the good I've heard about it, I can't tear myself away from this to go watch it.

[ Philip II ] - 12:29am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1121 of 1145)
Look, I don't know what you think you have to gain by making weak attempts at making fun of me. Nor do I know why you find it necessary to insinuate that I am mentally ill.
The only logical conclusions is that your beliefs are built on sinking sand, and you are desperately clawing at whatever you think might postpone the inevitable.
Can't you wake up and see reality. Just once?

[ Whatever ] - 12:31am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1122 of 1145)
I think that's got something to do with the movie I'm trying to watch.

[ Philip II ] - 12:32am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1123 of 1145)
What movie is that? Some asinine "rationalist" flick?

[ KATHLEEN345D ] - 12:32am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1124 of 1145)
Phillip, the first thing a teacher needs to know is to curtail his assumption that he knows all and the student knows nothing. Otherwise, instead of imparting knowledge, he just comes across as a pompous ass.

Why not take a deep breath, and try to muster a little respect for the people you are bickering with? You don't even know us, and you are making many poor assumptions.

[ dopplercat ] - 12:33am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1125 of 1145)
“Can't you wake up and see reality. Just once?”
You know, I thought it was just the mirror I had installed on my bedroom ceiling.
“Look, I don't know what you think you have to gain by making weak attempts at making fun of me.”
Cheap laughs. I kind of hoped it was obvious.
“Nor do I know why you find it necessary to insinuate that I am mentally ill.”
Desperation, Wild Phil Hickock. It's the only way I can disguise my mad passion for you.
Phil, you're a truly funny guy, and I hope one day you get comfortable enough with your beliefs that you don't have to play school bully to prop them up. Until then, have a good one, and stay away from sharp objects.

[ Philip II ] - 12:34am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1127 of 1145)
Muster respect? How can I do that? They’re all wrong! They know nothing.
How am I supposed to respect such squalid ignorance.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.

[ KATHLEEN345D ] - 12:45am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1132 of 1145)
“Muster respect? How can I do that? Their all wrong! They know nothing.”
Okay. Suggestion, Phil--if you stop talking like a know-it-all, people will stop confusing you with other posters who also talk like know-it-alls.

[ Philip II ] - 12:47am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1133 of 1145)
I'm not a know-it-all. Nor do I claim to be. I'm just ordinary. The problem lies with everyone else, who are sub-ordinary.

[ dopplercat ] - 12:48am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1134 of 1145)
“Jamaica was great, William. At least the resort was. Seeing the country itself is a bit depressing for a pinko like myself.”
A common problem with travel. Still, I'm glad you had fun.
As you can tell, it's business as usual here.
[ KATHLEEN345D ] - 12:52am Jun 13, 2000 EST (#1135 of 1145)
“As you can tell, it's business as usual here.”
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

That's all for now. I'll post more of Phil's Adventures later on. Now get out!