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Note: To anyone from Pathfinder who may be reading this, I have a few thing to say. First of all, I’ve tried only to include those people who gave consent. Those who did not give consent were deleted or their names were altered. I've also deleted everyone's handle so as not to confuse people. Also, keep in mind that this covers only roughly one third of Phil’s antics. I’ve boiled it down greatly, but I have not changed what any of you said. If you have any objections, give me an e-mail and I will do my best to rectify the situation.

This is the thread on which Phil made his stunning debut. He is thoroughly outwitted by Brett but, being Phil, doesn’t realize it.

Topic: There is no God.

[ Anonymous ]- created 07:08am Jun 6, 2000 EST

Let's face it: all organized religion is a bunch of superstitious fairy tales. People should grow up and not trust themselves in self-imaged ghosts.

[ Philip II ] - 10:07pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#70 of 135)
God exists, fools! What state of physcosis or stupidity has driven you to deny the obvious? Be reasonable, and recognize what any fool can see.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 10:29pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#71 of 135)
I love these oneday Sallies who come running through here, throwing their confetti around, only to disappear, never to be heard from again.

[ Philip II ] - 10:35pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#72 of 135)
Now you liken the indubitable proof of God's existence to confetti? Tsk, tsk. Is that all you the better you can do?

[ Brett in NYC ] - 10:39pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#73 of 135)
"Now you liken the indubitable proof of God's existence to confetti?"
Actually, I liken your words to confetti: very lightweight and susceptible to even modest tremors of the wind.
Will you please settle thousands of years of philosophical dialogue amongst some of the finest minds ever and tell us of this "indubitable proof."

[ Philip II ] - 10:40pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#74 of 135)
Why certainly. God exists. The only alternate doesn't make any sense. In fact, it is laughable. Therefore, God exists.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 10:42pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#75 of 135)
The inability of your mind to conceive an alternative constitutes a proof? Can we have a show of hands please?

[ Philip II ] - 10:43pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#76 of 135)
No, the utter absurdity of the conceived alternative, as well as it's complete inability to explain the grand mysteries of life, is a proof of the only alternative.

[ billytea ] - 10:44pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#77 of 135)
"Why certainly. God exists. The only alternate doesn't make any sense. In fact, it is laughable. Therefore, God exists."
Well, I'm convinced. Brett, I'm sorry, but I'll just have to take Philip's argument. I like the abuse, and the thousands of years of philosophical dialogue is just to rigorous and considered to provide my daily hit.
Thank you for your attention. 

[ Philip II ] - 10:46pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#78 of 135)
Glad to see someone else has seen the light. Even if they happen to be an insufferably smug smartass.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 10:46pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#79 of 135)
Oh William...you do that to make me laugh, don't you?
Hey Phil...Please do not limit the rest of us in our pursuit of knowledge by your obvious intellectual inability to conceive alternatives.

[ Philip II ] - 10:49pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#80 of 135)
I am perfectly able to concieve alternatives, contrary to your invective post. I simply realize the absurdity of them, whereas you do not. The intellectual deficiency is your own.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 10:51pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#81 of 135)
How are they absurd?

[ Philip II ] - 10:52pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#82 of 135)
You really cannot figure that out yourself? It's so blindingly obvious!

[ Brett in NYC ] - 10:53pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#83 of 135)
Indulge me. How are they absurd?

[ Philip II ] - 10:56pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#84 of 135)
They don't make sense. Where did everything come from if there wasn't a God? Sure, you can talk about the wave constant and string theory, but we all know the truth.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 10:56pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#85 of 135)
Where did god come from?

[ Philip II ] - 10:59pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#86 of 135)
See? You have no sense of the greatness of it all! You just have to placate yourself by asking silly questions. God has always been around. He doesn't need an explanation.
Geez.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:00pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#87 of 135)
"God has always been around. "
The universe has always been around.

[ Philip II ] - 11:00pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#88 of 135)
No it hasn't! Your being silly. God made it. How obvious is that?

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:01pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#89 of 135)
Sure it has. Prove it hasn't.

[ Philip II ] - 11:02pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#90 of 135)
It is impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on you.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:03pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#91 of 135)
OK..You prove that god has been here forever and I will prove that the universe has been here forever.

[ Philip II ] - 11:04pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#92 of 135)
You go first.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:05pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#93 of 135)
There is unending empircal proof that matter and/or energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Since it is here now, it must have been here foreover. Your turn. Give it your best shot.

[ Philip II ] - 11:06pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#94 of 135)
On second thought, I don't need to wait for a silly atheist. I'll prove my point right now.
God exists, because if God did not exist, the greatness of all creation would not be. All the splendor that exists would be gone. The only alternative is ridiculous. Anyone can see it is untrue.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:08pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#95 of 135)
Sorry. You lose. You didn't fulfill your end of the contract. You did not even attempt to prove that god has been here forever.

[ Philip II ] - 11:08pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#96 of 135)
You really believe all that garbage, Brett? God fixed everything so it would look that way, but it really isn't. (He can do that because he is omnipotent.)

[ Philip II ] - 11:09pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#97 of 135)
No, you lose, Brett. Since I have just shown the utter absurdity of your excuse of a proof.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:10pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#98 of 135)
Your job was not to disprove my statement, your job was to prove yours. I made a proof that the universe has been here forever. Prove that god has been here foreover. Can't do it , can you?

[ Philip II ] - 11:13pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#99 of 135)
I have. God exists because everything makes sense and fits into his existing. Without God in the picture, everything would collapse like a house of cards in the breeze. Since this hasn't happened, God must exist.
Now could you provide me with a reasonable proof that the universe has been here forever?
I'm waiting.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:14pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#100 of 135)
you did not agree to prove that god exists, you agreed to prove that god has been here forever.
There is unending empircal proof that matter and/or energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Since it is here now, it must have been here foreover.

[ Philip II ] - 11:16pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#101 of 135)
If God exists at all, he has to have existed forever, since he is the origin of all things. Since I have already proven that, my proof is set.
As for your unending empirical proof, it is but straw. God made things the way the are, laws of physics included. He can change them whenever he is inclined to do so.

[ Istari ] - 11:17pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#102 of 135)
Wow

[ Philip II ] - 11:18pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#103 of 135)
Do you agree, Istari ? You seem reasonable.

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:18pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#104 of 135)
"If God exists at all, he has to have existed forever, since he is the origin of all things."
No, if he created all things, he only need be ten minutes older than all things. Prove that god has been here foreover.

[ Philip II ] - 11:19pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#105 of 135)
Really, Brett. This is disapointing. Are peripheral technicalities all you have to defend your cause?
To have created something out of nothing, God has to be infinite. And that means he's been here forever.

[ billytea ] - 11:21pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#106 of 135)
Brett, stop it, you're killing me. Anyone else feel they've stumbled across the Pathfinder equivalent of Groundhog Day?

[ Brett in NYC ] - 11:22pm Jun 12, 2000 EST (#107 of 135)
Well, thank you...
This exchange fits nicely into my position that proof for or against the existence of god is not a helpful concept, since each person will have his or her own standard of how much evidence constitutes sufficient evidence for a proof. I thank you for helping to empirically verify my hypothesis.
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